Aquarian Astro Twins

[Guest guest]

A Set of Aquarian Astro Twins

-----------------------------

 

These two charts I'm discussing aren't part of my 10th house Aquarian

study, but they turned up in ADB. The similarities are more than a little

interesting. Both of these women have the Asc, Sun and Mercury in Aquarius

with Uranus in the 6th house in quincunx aspect (Jyotish 8th house aspect)

to all three.

 

Jupiter is in Libra trine the ascendant. That would generally be considered

a helpful aspect, but according to Hellenistic principles (as well as

Jyotish), Jupiter is poorly placed in Libra. The Hellenistic explanation is

that Jupiter is out of its own trigon (Aries-Leo-Sag) and in an unfriendly

sign. This is no doubt the forgotten basis of why Venus is an enemy to

Jupiter in Jyotish. Also Jupiter's dispositor is badly placed in the 12th.

So (according to ancient astrology), any benefic influence from Jupiter is

lost.

 

The two women were born a day apart, but with nearly the same ascendant

degree.

 

Nancy Spungen, Feb 27, 1958 6:52 a.m. Philadelphia, PA

Asc 19 Aquarius Sun 15 Aqu Mer 11 Aqu

 

Corrine Flynn, Feb 28, 1958 6:32 a.m. Winthrop, MA

Asc 18 Aqu 34 Sun 16 Aqu Mer 13 Aqu

 

Both of these women were murdered, Corrine by a family friend and Nancy by

her boyfriend, a heavy metal rocker. Corrine was disabled and in a

wheelchair, and Nancy was a drug addict and a high school dropout. It makes

us wonder about fate and the zodiac, doesn't it? Sadly for Aquarius and

Uranus, both women were victims as per the myths. (But some more cheerful

Aquarian concepts coming up!)

 

Dave, you seem to have timing techniques down, but I suspect that it might

be difficult to zero in on problems in the natal charts of these two women.

We need more detail than the much-favored angular theories of western

sidereal astrology give us. This is why I've been studying signs because

they help to move the energy around the chart. If the signs are wrong, then

none of the ancient theory will work because so much is based on trigon,

sign and sect rulerships.

 

Yes, I think Hellenistic astrology has found an important key to chart

reading in those concepts. Nancy and Corrine's tropical charts would have

Asc/Su/Mer in Pisces in trine to Jupiter--good because Jupiter is in a

friendly trigon (as lord of Pisces) and aspects planets in its own sign. So

the charts would be very Jupiterian and probably fortunate.

 

This is an example of why signs of the zodiac do matter. Since Robert

Schmidt and company are still working in the Hellenistic theoretical area

without studying actual horoscopes, they haven't caught on yet that those

techniques will collapse in the tropical zodiac.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

Natal, Solar Return, and PSSR charts for the Aquarian Astro Twins.

 

Therese, I have cast the sidereal charts for these two " twins " , all in the

Sidereal Zodiac so that we might refer to them with your efforts relative to the

Sidereal signs. I will comment on each of these natal, solar return, and PSSR

charts in this post, and likely in a couple of follow-up posts. In presenting

these charts, I will be using the techniques that I have developed, and which

you referred to) along with the interpretations taken from my book (which is in

its very final stages). Those interpretations are generalized and not slanted

to homicides. When I return home from vacation in a couple of weeks, I'll

generate chart diagrams and post them in the files section ---- for now, I'll

list the chart factors.

 

NANCY SPUNGEN (Sidereal)

 

MC 26 Scorpio

Asc 18 Aqu.

CD Point 4 Virgo

Sun 14 Aqu.

Moon 21 Taur.

Merc. 10 Aqu.

Venus 8 Cap.

Mars 22 Sag.

Jup. 7 Lib.

Sat. 0 Sag.

Uranus 14 Can.

Nep. 10 Lib.

Pluto 6 Leo

N.Node 7 Libra

 

For those unfamiliar with my methods, the CD Point relates to the MC by its arc

as the Asc. relates to the MC. This makes the MC a mid-point of the Ascendant

and CD Point. The CD seems to be an intrusion point into our lives, planets

there represent constraints and problems for the most part. This differs from

the Desc. which represents how we project and expect others to relate to us.

 

I note the SUN-MERCURY near the ASC., SATURN at the MC opposing the MOON at the

IC, and also squaring the natal CD Point. JUPITER-NODE-NEPTUNE are conjunct in

the 8th house area, close to the 9th.

 

Permit me to comment on the CD point and the square to Saturn. It is my practice

to note conjunctions and oppositions to the CD; I have not yet had enough

experience to state that the squares work as well as we would expect a

paran-square to work. If we were to provide an interpretation, I would note that

" At sometime in one's life a form of confinement or hindrance would be likely,

something that would stop you from functioning as you normally might. This

could be a life long situation or an more-than-once significant happening. "

 

 

SIDEREAL 1978 SOLAR RETURN; Nancy Spungen

 

MC 11 Cap.

Asc. 4 Taurus

CD Point 18 Virgo

Sun 14 Aqu.

Moon 9 Lib.

Mercury 14 Aqu.

Venus 23 Aqu.

Mars 27 Gem.

Jup. 1 Gem.

Saturn 1 Leo

Uranus 21 Lib.

Neptune 23 Scorpio

Pluto 21 Virgo

Node 11 Virgo

 

Unlike many strictly Siderealists, I do not demand partile aspects. I like to

see aspects within 3 degrees orb but will often work with orbs of 6 and 7

degrees where there are " similarity patterns " that support these wider orbs. I

note the following SSR characteristics:

** Natal Venus at SR MC; " Popularity reigns, seeking desirable goals, gains from

public ventures. " This is at odds with her murder several months later, but in

line with an 11th house natal placement which suggests she might seek support

from friends. Of course, a friend did murder her. What was she doing this

particular year?

** Transiting Pluto at the CD Point: " Others bring change, challenges and

impossible tasks to you. " Natal Pluto was in the 6th house of work, service and

experienced health issues. This suggests that she might have reached a

rehabilitation or treatment point where she was trying to push the envelope and

attempt more than her circumstances might have allowed.

** I note that transiting Node is between the natal CD and s/R CD points, all

reasonably close together. Using the books interpretation, " You can be

pressured to respond to groups outside of your normal circle of associates. This

can be good or bad for you. "

** Natal Uranus at the IC: " Basic upheavals in the home or with one's resources

is likely this year. A new adventurous spirit may be developed or required.

Change of residence. "

 

There are a lot of questions that need to be answered here. Is there a more

extensive biographical resource for Nancy Spungen? What was she attempting to

do or to cope with in this year? We need to establish that life context before

we can really assess this chart.

 

Also, note, that the interpretations given for natal, s/r, and PSSR charts are

each nuanced in my book --- I will be using the book interpretations for this

review.

 

Oct. 24, 2978 PSSR for Nancy Spungen

 

MC 17 Lib.

Asc 23 Sag.

CD Point 11 Leo

Sun 24 Virgo

Moon early Aqu.

Merc. 2 Lib.

Venus 20 Lib.

Mars 21 Lib.

Jup. 22 Can.

Saturn 15 Leo.

Uranus 20 Lib.

Neptune 21 Scorpio

Pluto 22 Virgo

N.Node 1 Virgo

 

I note the following factors in the PSSR chart:

** Natal Mars conj. Asc.; " Angry feelings, heated arguments, engaging in

physical activity, operation or surgery, dangerous situations. "

** Transiting Uranus, Venus, Mars at the MC/10th house area. We can break down

this grouping:

**** Uranus/MC; " Change happens, little time to adapt, unique job offers,

changes within the family. "

**** Mars/MC; " Anger in your life, strong action called for, sports focused,

heated debates. "

**** Venus/MC; " Receiving praise, peacemaking, acting on one's wants. "

We see conflicting situation portrayed here. I have often found that when the

actual circumstances can be discovered that all of these symbolic meanings often

apply. From these MC positions, I would speculate that a gathering was planned

on this date relative to some single/range of changes that were being planned or

put into motion. Nancy expected support for these changes, instead she received

angry feedback. This is highly contrary. She, herself (natal Mars/Asc.) grew

angry in return.

** Transiting Saturn near the CD, natal Pluto near the CD.

**** Pluto at the CD; " Brutality imposed, change and upsets thrust on you, a

need to consider changing yourself to meet a new environment around you. Power

sought. "

**** Saturn at CD; " Restrictions occur, impositions by others, locked up in

some manner. "

Note that there is little need in a PSSR chart to distinguish between natal and

transiting planet interpretations. While one often attempts to respond in a

" developed-over-time " natal chart manner, daily events often overwhelm us when

the negative planets such as Mars, Saturn, Uranus and Pluto are involved.

 

This is a BRUTAL CHART.

 

I need to find, if available, a biographical source to determine the life

context at play here --- it is not good astrological practice to fly blind,

although we do know of the major event of the day.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

More comments on Nancy Splungen's charts.

 

Normally when I initially run a Solar Return and see disquieting factors

(transiting Pluto at the CD Point, Uranus at the IC), I first look to Riyal's

annual listing of MC and Asc. angles for the PSSR charts on any given date. Any

angle contacting any angle is the first thing to look for. In this case, there

are no angular contacts to look for. The second focal point is then to look at

the factors in the S/R chart (plus their counterparts in the natal chart) that

are contacted by the progressing angles. For each those " candidate date " we

have to check a chart to see what is happening therein.

 

In Nancy Spungen's case, we had the CD-Pluto combination active on her

death-date, repeating the S/R contact. We had Uranus/IC active as the MC was

coming up to it its transiting position. We had the S/R Venus being approached

by the PSSR MC, as it was part of the Mars-Uranus-Venus grouping there. These

contacts are more work to spot than angular contacts but they are equally

effective.

 

I had mentioned " similarity patterns " earlier. They are the thing that capable

students and experienced students/professionals notice, being repeating patterns

--- even if rearragned or regrouped. We need to be intensely aware of these

because of the MC-Solar Cycle.

 

The MC-Solar Cycle commences at birth and is marked with every S/R Sun and MC

position. The PSSR charts are merely proportioned extensions of this cycle,

reflecting the " in-between " angular positions. Because of this, the three types

of charts are tied together ---- the role of the planets carries forward

through/into the solar return where some angular natal planets and angular

transiting planets are emphasized. We pick up on these emphasized planets and

look for them in the PSSR charts. What I have not noticed Sidereal astrologers

doing is carrying the natal and S/R angules forward into the s/r and PSSR

charts. Each angle-at-an-angle combination has a specific meaning.

 

Nobody seems to have ever picked up on my CD point. I find it quite useful and

appropriate. Likewise, we can note the mid-point of the MC and Asc. in any

chart --- that is often appropriate as well. In Nancy's natal chart, the MC-ASC

midpoint is at 7 Capricorn conjunct her Venus; she will be searching for love

and acceptance in her life.

In her PSSR chart, the MC-Asc. midpoint is 20 Scorpio, conjunct transiting

Neptune; she will be dealing with deceit on that date.

 

For the many capable astrologers on this list, this chart overview ought to

provide a reasonable insight into my practice using S/R and PSSR charts.

 

If anyone comes across biographical material for these two ladies before I do, I

would appreciate hearing of your sources. Thanks. Dave

[Guest guest]

At 04:37 PM 8/22/09 -0000, Dave Monroe wrote:

>

>...I have cast the sidereal charts for these two " twins " , all in the

Sidereal Zodiac

>There are a lot of questions that need to be answered here...Is there a

more extensive biographical resource for Nancy Spungen? What was she

attempting to do or to cope with in this year?...We need to establish that

life context before we can really assess this chart...

>

>I need to find, if available, a biographical source to determine the life

context at play

here --- it is not good astrological practice to fly blind, although we do

know of the major event of the day.

-------------------------

 

Dave, thanks so much for your extensive analysis. I can't reply this

morning, but if you google " Nancy Spungen " you'll get a ton of stuff--bios,

pics, videos, timeline. I had no idea Nancy would be so extensively covered

on the internet. She's in Wiki too. Being psychically sensitive (though not

psychic) I can't spend much time with the more gruesome side of life, so

I'm not going to read it all myself.

 

Time and energy constraints also...first I want to edit and post the rest

of my Sun-Aquarius data. So we'll wait for your further report, Dave.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

In Jyotish, Jupiter and Venus are enemies I think because Jupiter is the Teacher

of the Gods and Venus is the teacher of the Demons. Are you leaning towards

Uranus being the Ruler of Aquarius, although you still say Jupiter is the ruler

of Pisces?

 

liberator_9

 

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

 

 

Therese Hamilton <eastwest

Aquarian Astro Twins

 

Saturday, August 22, 2009, 1:30 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Set of Aquarian Astro Twins

------------ --------- --------

 

These two charts I'm discussing aren't part of my 10th house Aquarian

study, but they turned up in ADB. The similarities are more than a little

interesting. Both of these women have the Asc, Sun and Mercury in Aquarius

with Uranus in the 6th house in quincunx aspect (Jyotish 8th house aspect)

to all three.

 

Jupiter is in Libra trine the ascendant. That would generally be considered

a helpful aspect, but according to Hellenistic principles (as well as

Jyotish), Jupiter is poorly placed in Libra. The Hellenistic explanation is

that Jupiter is out of its own trigon (Aries-Leo-Sag) and in an unfriendly

sign. This is no doubt the forgotten basis of why Venus is an enemy to

Jupiter in Jyotish. Also Jupiter's dispositor is badly placed in the 12th.

So (according to ancient astrology), any benefic influence from Jupiter is

lost.

 

The two women were born a day apart, but with nearly the same ascendant

degree.

 

Nancy Spungen, Feb 27, 1958 6:52 a.m. Philadelphia, PA

Asc 19 Aquarius Sun 15 Aqu Mer 11 Aqu

 

Corrine Flynn, Feb 28, 1958 6:32 a.m. Winthrop, MA

Asc 18 Aqu 34 Sun 16 Aqu Mer 13 Aqu

 

Both of these women were murdered, Corrine by a family friend and Nancy by

her boyfriend, a heavy metal rocker. Corrine was disabled and in a

wheelchair, and Nancy was a drug addict and a high school dropout. It makes

us wonder about fate and the zodiac, doesn't it? Sadly for Aquarius and

Uranus, both women were victims as per the myths. (But some more cheerful

Aquarian concepts coming up!)

 

Dave, you seem to have timing techniques down, but I suspect that it might

be difficult to zero in on problems in the natal charts of these two women.

We need more detail than the much-favored angular theories of western

sidereal astrology give us. This is why I've been studying signs because

they help to move the energy around the chart. If the signs are wrong, then

none of the ancient theory will work because so much is based on trigon,

sign and sect rulerships.

 

Yes, I think Hellenistic astrology has found an important key to chart

reading in those concepts. Nancy and Corrine's tropical charts would have

Asc/Su/Mer in Pisces in trine to Jupiter--good because Jupiter is in a

friendly trigon (as lord of Pisces) and aspects planets in its own sign. So

the charts would be very Jupiterian and probably fortunate.

 

This is an example of why signs of the zodiac do matter. Since Robert

Schmidt and company are still working in the Hellenistic theoretical area

without studying actual horoscopes, they haven't caught on yet that those

techniques will collapse in the tropical zodiac.

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 04:37 PM 8/22/09 -0000, Dave Monroe wrote:

>

>...I have cast the sidereal charts for these two " twins " , all in the

Sidereal Zodiac so that we might refer to them with your efforts relative

to the Sidereal signs... I'll generate chart diagrams and post them in the

files section ---- for now, I'll list the chart factors... "

 

Dave, I see that you're using the Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa--just so readers

know. This is about a degree from Lahiri, so the planetary positions will

be a degree earlier. This doesn't matter, of course, when using the solar

return as the aspects will be exactly the same using any ayanamsa.

 

>You wrote: " For those unfamiliar with my methods, the CD Point relates to

the MC by its arc as the Asc. relates to the MC. This makes the MC a

mid-point of the Ascendant and CD Point. The CD seems to be an intrusion

point into our lives, planets there represent constraints and problems for

the most part... "

 

The CD point may be the major contribution from you upcoming book. I

generally haven't used progressions only because I don't do personal

readings anymore--mainly due to having too much on my plate of life and

several on-going research projects. For those who would like to experiment

with the CD point, it would be a good idea to print out Dave's posts.

 

>Dave wrote:

> " Unlike many strictly Siderealists, I do not demand partile aspects. I

like to see aspects within 3 degrees orb but will often work with orbs of 6

and 7 degrees where there are " similarity patterns " that support these

wider orbs... "

 

I agree that we have to make allowance of different orbs. It's interesting

that in Hellenistic astrology an orb of less than three degrees was given

special attention and a different label.

 

>Dave wrote: " ** Natal Venus at SR MC; " Popularity reigns, seeking

desirable goals, gains from public ventures. "

 

This is where modern interpretation (born since Alan Leo/Charles Carter)

varies from the traditional (Pre-modern and Jyotish) way of looking at a

chart. Venus can act in a number of different ways and isn't necessarily

fortunate or psychological. Since Venus is at the Solar Return MC,

traditional astrology looks at Venus in the natal chart. It's poorly placed

in the 12th and square to Jup/Ne/Nodes. Any planet configured with the

nodes is suspect. Actually this particular Venus prominent in a solar

return chart emphasizes the 12th house.

 

Then traditional astrology notes that the ascendant sign is the natal 4th

house, the endings of things (also the end of life). (That's equal house,

and a reason why we aren't even to first base until the house system

problem is solved.) In Nancy's equal house chart the Moon is in the 4th,

and it so happens that transiting Uranus is only minutes from making an

exact quincunx [Jyotish 8th house Mars aspect] to the Moon in the SR

Ascendant sign.

 

Natal Uranus shows up again at the SR IC, and transiting Saturn is at the

SR nadir. Close squares to the MC/IC or Asc/Desc seem to be very

significant (as James Eshelman points out in his book on solar returns), so

no matter what house system is used, in Nancy's end-of-life solar return,

both Uranus and Saturn are prominent. These two planets are lords of

Nancy's sidereal 12th and 1st houses.

 

Also in the death solar retuen natal Pluto is at the nadir with transiting

Saturn. So traditionally we have:

 

12th house Venus at the M.C. in square to the nodes

Natal 4th on the SR ascendant with the Moon

SR Uranus in partile quincunx aspect to the natal 4th house Moon

SR Saturn conjunct natal Pluto at the nadir.

All emphasizing the 4th/12th houses.

 

There is more going on in Nancy's chart, and Dave has described much of

that. I'm mainly pointing out that the traditional way of looking at charts

doesn't pre-suppose attitudes or reactions, but only possible good or bad

events. I'm rather surprised that siderealists have jumped on the tropical

psychological bandwagan. No doubt this reflects the tone of our times. The

problem I have with attitudes and expectations is that these come under the

flag of free will, and can vary with each person. No doubt this is why I

prefer traditional techniques.

 

Dave, you seem to be skillfully combining the two approaches--psychological

and traditional. This same controversy/discussion is going on constantly in

the tropical community: the traditionalists (Hellenistic/Medieval/Lilly)

vs. the modernists (Leo/Carter/Rudhyar /Liz Green et al). The early

siderealists were unaware of traditional astrology since texts and

translations weren't available to them. So their only recourse was the

model of modern tropical astrology. I wonder what Fagan and friends would

say to the current revival of traditional astrology.

 

Thanks, Dave, for giving us a look-see into your book. Much

appreciated--although I would have liked to see some traditional meanings

noted for the houses. Deborah Houlding's THE HOUSES: TEMPLES OF THE SKY " is

the best available source at this time.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

At 03:15 PM 8/22/09 -0700, Stephen wrote:

>In Jyotish, Jupiter and Venus are enemies I think because Jupiter is the

Teacher of the Gods and Venus is the teacher of the Demons.

 

Hi Stephen,

 

You've given the accepted Jyotish explanation for the enmity of Venus and

Jupiter, but I believe the original reason related to the trigon rulers. I

believe Kenneth Johnson has suggested this to Robert Schmidt in one of his

intensives.

 

You wrote: " Are you leaning towards Uranus being the Ruler of Aquarius,

although you still say Jupiter is the ruler of Pisces? "

 

I'm suggesting that the Uranian myths relate to Aquarius (as well as

Chronus). In practice, as to whether Uranus can be used as co-ruler of

Aquarius, a study of individual horoscopes will determine that. That would

be via the dispositor.

 

For example, in Nancy Spungen's natal chart, Uranus is in the 6th in

adverse relationship to the ascendant. This suggests that she'll have

difficulty using her Aquarian ascendant planets in a positive way. And she

was a drug addict, school dropout (Mercury) and connected to hard rock

musicians. Saturn is in the 11th, a more fortunate placement, but it

doesn't closely aspect her personal planets.

 

Neptune will describe many of sidereal Pisces' traits, but Jupiter is still

a primary ruler of the sign. In a number of ways, ye old Poseidon was

similar to Mars.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

In Jyotish, Mercury and Jupiter are also enemies. Actually, Mercury, I

understand also doesn't like the Moon and Mars either. I was going to ask you

about the Mercury/Jupiter enmity and how it might contrast with the

Venus/Jupiter one. For a neutral planet, it seems that Mercury has a lot of

enemies.. Hmmm...

 

liberator_9

 

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

 

 

Therese Hamilton <eastwest

Re: Aquarian Astro Twins

 

Saturday, August 22, 2009, 7:01 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 03:15 PM 8/22/09 -0700, Stephen wrote:

>In Jyotish, Jupiter and Venus are enemies I think because Jupiter is the

Teacher of the Gods and Venus is the teacher of the Demons.

 

Hi Stephen,

 

You've given the accepted Jyotish explanation for the enmity of Venus and

Jupiter, but I believe the original reason related to the trigon rulers. I

believe Kenneth Johnson has suggested this to Robert Schmidt in one of his

intensives.

 

You wrote: " Are you leaning towards Uranus being the Ruler of Aquarius,

although you still say Jupiter is the ruler of Pisces? "

 

I'm suggesting that the Uranian myths relate to Aquarius (as well as

Chronus). In practice, as to whether Uranus can be used as co-ruler of

Aquarius, a study of individual horoscopes will determine that. That would

be via the dispositor.

 

For example, in Nancy Spungen's natal chart, Uranus is in the 6th in

adverse relationship to the ascendant. This suggests that she'll have

difficulty using her Aquarian ascendant planets in a positive way. And she

was a drug addict, school dropout (Mercury) and connected to hard rock

musicians. Saturn is in the 11th, a more fortunate placement, but it

doesn't closely aspect her personal planets.

 

Neptune will describe many of sidereal Pisces' traits, but Jupiter is still

a primary ruler of the sign. In a number of ways, ye old Poseidon was

similar to Mars.

 

Therese

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 05:38 PM 8/22/09 -0700, Stephen Glaser wrote:

>In Jyotish, Mercury and Jupiter are also enemies...

 

Jupiter is a neutral for Mercury, but Mercury is said to be an enemy to

Jupiter. I don't pay much attention to that one.

 

>>Actually, Mercury, I understand also doesn't like the Moon and Mars either.

 

The Moon harms Mercury because it's the emotional mind, and Mercury is said

to represent clear thinking and objective perception. However, any writer

of popular fiction or poetry will usually have a Moon-Mercury contact. Mars

is neutral to Mercury.

 

>>I was going to ask you about the Mercury/Jupiter enmity and how it might

contrast with the Venus/Jupiter one. For a neutral planet, it seems that

Mercury has a lot of enemies.. Hmmm...

--

 

Mercury has only one enemy, the Moon.

 

Jupiter has two, Mercury and Venus.

 

Mercury is said to harm Mars. Maybe because Mars is physical strength, and

Mercury is mental.

 

It's intereting that these *ALL* go back to the trigons:

 

Aries-Leo-Sag: Mars-Sun-Jupiter

 

Taurus-Virgo-Capricorn: Venus-Mercury-Saturn

 

Gemini-Libra-Aquarius: again Mercury-Venus-Saturn

 

Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces: Moon-Mars-Jupiter

 

A planet never has an enemy in its own trigon.

The Moon has no enemies.

 

I'm quite sure the original Jyotish friends and enemies had their

foundation in the Hellenistic doctrine of trigons.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

I see, yes, Mercury doesn't do well in Cancer, ruled by the Moon, but the Moon

has no problem in Gemini or Virgo, both signs ruled by Mercury.

 

>Jupiter is a neutral for Mercury, but Mercury is said to be an enemy to

Jupiter. I don't pay much attention to that one.

 

I guess it depends on how a planet fares in the other sign. I think it is said

that Jupiter doesn't do well in Gemini or Virgo, but Mercury does okay in

Sagittarius, but incidently falls in Pisces...

 

liberator_9

 

--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Therese Hamilton <eastwest wrote:

 

 

Therese Hamilton <eastwest

Re: Aquarian Astro Twins

 

Sunday, August 23, 2009, 12:41 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 05:38 PM 8/22/09 -0700, Stephen Glaser wrote:

>In Jyotish, Mercury and Jupiter are also enemies...

 

Jupiter is a neutral for Mercury, but Mercury is said to be an enemy to

Jupiter. I don't pay much attention to that one.

 

>>Actually, Mercury, I understand also doesn't like the Moon and Mars either.

 

The Moon harms Mercury because it's the emotional mind, and Mercury is said

to represent clear thinking and objective perception. However, any writer

of popular fiction or poetry will usually have a Moon-Mercury contact. Mars

is neutral to Mercury.

 

>>I was going to ask you about the Mercury/Jupiter enmity and how it might

contrast with the Venus/Jupiter one. For a neutral planet, it seems that

Mercury has a lot of enemies.. Hmmm...

------------ --------- --------- -----

 

Mercury has only one enemy, the Moon.

 

Jupiter has two, Mercury and Venus.

 

Mercury is said to harm Mars. Maybe because Mars is physical strength, and

Mercury is mental.

 

It's intereting that these *ALL* go back to the trigons:

 

Aries-Leo-Sag: Mars-Sun-Jupiter

 

Taurus-Virgo- Capricorn: Venus-Mercury- Saturn

 

Gemini-Libra- Aquarius: again Mercury-Venus- Saturn

 

Cancer-Scorpio- Pisces: Moon-Mars-Jupiter

 

A planet never has an enemy in its own trigon.

The Moon has no enemies.

 

I'm quite sure the original Jyotish friends and enemies had their

foundation in the Hellenistic doctrine of trigons.

 

Therese

[Guest guest]

Pingree in his yavanajataka gives a different explanation, " Satya " changed the

rule for temporary friendships so that 8th is also friendly and it balances

while at the same time making the temporary friendships to be the permanent

ones. I am suspicious of all this since Pingree does not mention any western

astrologer using these concepts. (The normal western procedure would be to look

at the standard aspects between the signs, so Saturn-Sun, Venus-Mars,

Jupiter-Mercury are enemies. Saturn-Mercury, Mars-Jupiter, Mercury-Venus

friends. In this scheme Mercury would also be the planet with fewest enemies

overall, and the Seleucids also considered it to be neutral. Indian astrology

also generally ignores such sign compatibility considerations altogether.)

 

, Therese Hamilton <eastwest

wrote:

>

> At 05:38 PM 8/22/09 -0700, Stephen Glaser wrote:

> >In Jyotish, Mercury and Jupiter are also enemies...

>

> Jupiter is a neutral for Mercury, but Mercury is said to be an enemy to

> Jupiter. I don't pay much attention to that one.

>

> >>Actually, Mercury, I understand also doesn't like the Moon and Mars either.

>

> The Moon harms Mercury because it's the emotional mind, and Mercury is said

> to represent clear thinking and objective perception. However, any writer

> of popular fiction or poetry will usually have a Moon-Mercury contact. Mars

> is neutral to Mercury.

>

> >>I was going to ask you about the Mercury/Jupiter enmity and how it might

> contrast with the Venus/Jupiter one. For a neutral planet, it seems that

> Mercury has a lot of enemies.. Hmmm...

> --

>

> Mercury has only one enemy, the Moon.

>

> Jupiter has two, Mercury and Venus.

>

> Mercury is said to harm Mars. Maybe because Mars is physical strength, and

> Mercury is mental.

>

> It's intereting that these *ALL* go back to the trigons:

>

> Aries-Leo-Sag: Mars-Sun-Jupiter

>

> Taurus-Virgo-Capricorn: Venus-Mercury-Saturn

>

> Gemini-Libra-Aquarius: again Mercury-Venus-Saturn

>

> Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces: Moon-Mars-Jupiter

>

> A planet never has an enemy in its own trigon.

> The Moon has no enemies.

>

> I'm quite sure the original Jyotish friends and enemies had their

> foundation in the Hellenistic doctrine of trigons.

>

> Therese

>