Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 vedic astrology , " Sreenadh " <sreelid wrote: Dear All, I have seen a conversation about the difference between 6-8-12 and 3-6-11 Bhavas originally started by Imran. Let me share some of my observation in this regard. As everybody knows: 6-8-12 are called Dustanas and 3-6-11 are called Trishadaya_pathaya. As far as I know, the rules connected with 6-8-12 are generally applicable in every kind of prediction and the rules connected with 3- 6-11 is applicable especially in Nakshatra Desa system told by Parasara. May be Jathaka Chandrika (also known as Lekhu Parasari) is the first book that explicitly states 'Pathaya trishadayanam yedi papa phalapreda', meaning if the desa lords are the rulers of 3-6-11 they will not give auspicious results. [by the way, as far as I know, there are 3 books with the name Jathaka Chandrika - 1) Deals with Nakshatra Desa 2) Deals with Horoscopy 3) Deals with Matching. Of these 3 books the first is also known as Ududaya predeepam and Lekhu Parasari] Why these bhavas are bad? 3 - bad thoughts, cruelty are all associated with this bhava. It is considered as a hidden bhava that never supports straight predictions, comes in the apoklima category that gives good results only at a later age. 6 - Enemy, Weapons, Wounds, Debt are all associated with this bhava. It is clearly evident that it is a dustana. It is also an apoklima bhava. 8 - Death, Hardships are associated with this bhava. It is a hidden bhava and a dustana. Except Longevity, and Means of survival nothing much that is good is associated with this bhava. Then why (as Jathaka Chandrika points to) the 8th desa lord should give good results? 11 - This bhava is not considered as the significator of anything that is bad. Then why the desa of the 11th lord shouldn't give good results? 12 - Expense, Loss are all associated with this bhava. It is clearly evident that it is a dustana. It is also an apoklima bhava. If we consider all the 3-6-8-11-12 bhavas, 3-8-11 raises some questions. As per Jathaka Chandrika, 1) The desa of 3rd lord is considered bad. Why? 2) The desa of 8th lord is considered good. Why? 3) The desa of 11th lord is considered bad. Why? It is these questions that we should find answer to. But these questions do not stop as from using this system effectively in predication. As the badness associated with 3-11 and the goodness associated with 8 (as pointed to by Jathaka Chandrika) is controversial, We should limit the use of this theory to Nakshatra desa alone. Jathaka Chandrika explicitly deals with predictions done using Nakshatra desa system and therefore I can use this theory only when using Nakshatra desa for prediction. Everybody knows the norm that when we follow a system we should stick to the conditions/laws proposed by the originators of that system. Parasara proposed Nakshatra desa and while using that system for prediction (even if I don't understand the correct logic employed), I should stick to the rules given in Lekhu Parasari (Jathaka Chandrika) - as it speaks about Parasara's desa system known as Nakshatra desa. But then using the same system (of considering the lords of 3-6-11 as bad) while using the other desa systems or general predictions can be a fallacy. (This approach is also true in the case of Kendradhipathya dosha - which is associated with fixing the death period when maraka sthana dosha is also considered). Both 3-6-11 theory and Kendradhipathya dosha theory is proposed by Jathaka Chandrika, especially to deal with Nakshatra desa system. (There is not a single statement in Rishi horas that says that 3-11 are bad or that Kendradhipathya dosha should be considered) Therefore I feel that using them in general prediction can cause many problems. Hope many will appreciate this view. With warm regards, Sreenadh --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 One answer - 3rd is duschikya, bad instincts, animal instincts in a chart 3rd, if connected to lagna, provokes others against a native (my study), most people beaten in public, or attacked by others do get this combination, offcourse all will not have this combination because some other combinations also make somebody beaten or attacked. In astrology, mostly, we have been studying happenings or events occurring in a native's life, but, who does, when does, why does, is still under the carpet, requirs more studies. regards, Utkal. , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote: > > vedic astrology , " Sreenadh " <sreelid@> wrote: > > Dear All, > I have seen a conversation about the difference between 6-8-12 and > 3-6-11 Bhavas originally started by Imran. Let me share some of my > observation in this regard. > As everybody knows: > 6-8-12 are called Dustanas and 3-6-11 are called Trishadaya_pathaya. > As far as I know, the rules connected with 6-8-12 are generally > applicable in every kind of prediction and the rules connected with 3- > 6-11 is applicable especially in Nakshatra Desa system told by > Parasara. May be Jathaka Chandrika (also known as Lekhu Parasari) is > the first book that explicitly states 'Pathaya trishadayanam yedi papa > phalapreda', meaning if the desa lords are the rulers of 3-6-11 they > will not give auspicious results. > [by the way, as far as I know, there are 3 books with the name > Jathaka Chandrika - 1) Deals with Nakshatra Desa 2) Deals with > Horoscopy 3) Deals with Matching. Of these 3 books the first is also > known as Ududaya predeepam and Lekhu Parasari] > Why these bhavas are bad? > 3 - bad thoughts, cruelty are all associated with this bhava. It is > considered as a hidden bhava that never supports straight predictions, > comes in the apoklima category that gives good results only at a later > age. > 6 - Enemy, Weapons, Wounds, Debt are all associated with this bhava. > It is clearly evident that it is a dustana. It is also an apoklima > bhava. > 8 - Death, Hardships are associated with this bhava. It is a hidden > bhava and a dustana. Except Longevity, and Means of survival nothing > much that is good is associated with this bhava. Then why (as Jathaka > Chandrika points to) the 8th desa lord should give good results? > 11 - This bhava is not considered as the significator of anything > that is bad. Then why the desa of the 11th lord shouldn't give good > results? > 12 - Expense, Loss are all associated with this bhava. It is clearly > evident that it is a dustana. It is also an apoklima bhava. > If we consider all the 3-6-8-11-12 bhavas, 3-8-11 raises some > questions. As per Jathaka Chandrika, > 1) The desa of 3rd lord is considered bad. Why? > 2) The desa of 8th lord is considered good. Why? > 3) The desa of 11th lord is considered bad. Why? > It is these questions that we should find answer to. But these > questions do not stop as from using this system effectively in > predication. As the badness associated with 3-11 and the goodness > associated with 8 (as pointed to by Jathaka Chandrika) is > controversial, We should limit the use of this theory to Nakshatra > desa alone. Jathaka Chandrika explicitly deals with predictions done > using Nakshatra desa system and therefore I can use this theory only > when using Nakshatra desa for prediction. Everybody knows the norm > that when we follow a system we should stick to the conditions/laws > proposed by the originators of that system. Parasara proposed > Nakshatra desa and while using that system for prediction (even if I > don't understand the correct logic employed), I should stick to the > rules given in Lekhu Parasari (Jathaka Chandrika) - as it speaks about > Parasara's desa system known as Nakshatra desa. But then using the > same system (of considering the lords of 3-6-11 as bad) while using > the other desa systems or general predictions can be a fallacy. (This > approach is also true in the case of Kendradhipathya dosha - which is > associated with fixing the death period when maraka sthana dosha is > also considered). Both 3-6-11 theory and Kendradhipathya dosha theory > is proposed by Jathaka Chandrika, especially to deal with Nakshatra > desa system. (There is not a single statement in Rishi horas that says > that 3-11 are bad or that Kendradhipathya dosha should be considered) > Therefore I feel that using them in general prediction can cause many > problems. Hope many will appreciate this view. > With warm regards, > Sreenadh > > --- End forwarded message --- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji, I feel that I am late to reply do to time constraint and other limitations. But still I like to reply the question. First we should keep in mind that Sage Parashar has given more importance to peace of mind of the jeeva for happiness. 11th house is malefic from point of view of peace of mind. It gives material but not the peace of mind. With material it gives disease also as 6th from 6th. I know a very wealthy person who has every type of comfort of life and unlimited wealth. He was suffering from cancer of rectum. He was not able to sit on Italian sofa in centrally air-conditioned room. He moves from one corner of the room to other in agony. He has burning pain. He got operated for three time in foreign country. No amount of wealth gave him relief. It was in the dasha of 11th lord. Take 8th lord. It is moksha karaka and house of longevity. Sage Parashar does not say it a maraka but 7th, 12th from 8th is maraka. Moksha karaka give peace of mind, not wealth. It is 11th from 10th. It indicates obstructions or sudden gain, not continuous flow of wealth. It indicates break in profession or voluntary retirement, appointment after the death or retirement of other.Same is the case with 12th,4th two other moksha karaka house and Ketu. It indicates upward journey of spirit. Bur we count only worldly progress in terms or wealth, not even source of earning. So with Sage parashara we have to see jeeva and material of a house to understand him. Love and Regards -- On Tue, 10/20/09, sreesog <sreesog wrote: > sreesog <sreesog > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 > > Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 11:03 AM > Dear Manoj Chandran ji, > //Lagu Parshari logic says 11L should be inauspicious but > 8L is not?// > Yes, it does - and the 'why' needs to be addressed. > Everyone in vedic astrology group shied away when this > messages was posted there in 2005, and not even a single > reply came to this message. At least AIA is better, since > we already have 2 replies here for this message - one utpal > ji's and the other yours. :=) > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , > Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh Ji, > > > > You have made an interesting point. So what happens to > a Scorpio native, where Me is both the 8L and 11L. General > logic says 8L dasha should be inauspicous and 11L should be > prosperous. Lagu Parshari logic says 11L should be > inauspicious but 8L is not? > > > > Neither of the above two postulates sound logical to > me, especially the one that says 8L dasha is not bad. May > be I can understand that since 11H is the strongest of the > Kama houses, one can see excessive indulgence can lead to > inauspiciousness down the road, but atleast for " material > benefits " 11L dasha should be good. But the " logic " is not > how these dictums were derived, they were derived > through " intuition " , so may be I am missing the point. > > > > Regards, > > -Manoj > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > sreesog <sreesog > > > > Mon, October 19, 2009 5:36:00 AM > > Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 > and 6-8-12 > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sreenadh " > <sreelid@ > wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > I have seen a conversation about the difference > between 6-8-12 and > > 3-6-11 Bhavas originally started by Imran. Let me > share some of my > > observation in this regard. > > As everybody knows: > > 6-8-12 are called Dustanas and 3-6-11 are called > Trishadaya_pathaya. > > As far as I know, the rules connected with 6-8-12 are > generally > > applicable in every kind of prediction and the rules > connected with 3- > > 6-11 is applicable especially in Nakshatra Desa system > told by > > Parasara. May be Jathaka Chandrika (also known as > Lekhu Parasari) is > > the first book that explicitly states 'Pathaya > trishadayanam yedi papa > > phalapreda', meaning if the desa lords are the rulers > of 3-6-11 they > > will not give auspicious results. > > [by the way, as far as I know, there are 3 books with > the name > > Jathaka Chandrika - 1) Deals with Nakshatra Desa 2) > Deals with > > Horoscopy 3) Deals with Matching. Of these 3 books the > first is also > > known as Ududaya predeepam and Lekhu Parasari] > > Why these bhavas are bad? > > 3 - bad thoughts, cruelty are all associated with this > bhava. It is > > considered as a hidden bhava that never supports > straight predictions, > > comes in the apoklima category that gives good results > only at a later > > age. > > 6 - Enemy, Weapons, Wounds, Debt are all associated > with this bhava. > > It is clearly evident that it is a dustana. It is also > an apoklima > > bhava. > > 8 - Death, Hardships are associated with this bhava. > It is a hidden > > bhava and a dustana. Except Longevity, and Means of > survival nothing > > much that is good is associated with this bhava. Then > why (as Jathaka > > Chandrika points to) the 8th desa lord should give > good results? > > 11 - This bhava is not considered as the significator > of anything > > that is bad. Then why the desa of the 11th lord > shouldn't give good > > results? > > 12 - Expense, Loss are all associated with this bhava. > It is clearly > > evident that it is a dustana. It is also an apoklima > bhava. > > If we consider all the 3-6-8-11-12 bhavas, 3-8-11 > raises some > > questions. As per Jathaka Chandrika, > > 1) The desa of 3rd lord is considered bad. Why? > > 2) The desa of 8th lord is considered good. Why? > > 3) The desa of 11th lord is considered bad. Why? > > It is these questions that we should find answer to. > But these > > questions do not stop as from using this system > effectively in > > predication. As the badness associated with 3-11 and > the goodness > > associated with 8 (as pointed to by Jathaka Chandrika) > is > > controversial, We should limit the use of this theory > to Nakshatra > > desa alone. Jathaka Chandrika explicitly deals with > predictions done > > using Nakshatra desa system and therefore I can use > this theory only > > when using Nakshatra desa for prediction. Everybody > knows the norm > > that when we follow a system we should stick to the > conditions/laws > > proposed by the originators of that system. Parasara > proposed > > Nakshatra desa and while using that system for > prediction (even if I > > don't understand the correct logic employed), I should > stick to the > > rules given in Lekhu Parasari (Jathaka Chandrika) - as > it speaks about > > Parasara's desa system known as Nakshatra desa. But > then using the > > same system (of considering the lords of 3-6-11 as > bad) while using > > the other desa systems or general predictions can be a > fallacy. (This > > approach is also true in the case of Kendradhipathya > dosha - which is > > associated with fixing the death period when maraka > sthana dosha is > > also considered). Both 3-6-11 theory and > Kendradhipathya dosha theory > > is proposed by Jathaka Chandrika, especially to deal > with Nakshatra > > desa system. (There is not a single statement in Rishi > horas that says > > that 3-11 are bad or that Kendradhipathya dosha should > be considered) > > Therefore I feel that using them in general prediction > can cause many > > problems. Hope many will appreciate this view. > > With warm regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Dear Chakraborty Ji, 8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha. Regards, Utkal. , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote: > > Dear Seniors, > > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna. > > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st > attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business > has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit > during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of > Million dollars. > > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was > around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person > is a renowned palmist himself. > BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!! > > regards > > Chakraborty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Dear Kursija ji, That was a good effort to answer those questions - I appreciate you for that. Let us wach and wait for others opinion as well; we may got some more replies/thoughts. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> I feel that I am late to reply do to time constraint and other limitations.> But still I like to reply the question. First we should keep in mind that Sage Parashar has given more importance to peace of mind of the jeeva for happiness. 11th house is malefic from point of view of peace of mind. It gives material but not the peace of mind. With material it gives disease also as 6th from 6th. I know a very wealthy person who has every type of comfort of life and unlimited wealth. He was suffering from cancer of rectum. He was not able to sit on Italian sofa in centrally air-conditioned room. He moves from one corner of the room to other in agony. He has burning pain. He got operated for three time in foreign country. No amount of wealth gave him relief. It was in the dasha of 11th lord.> > Take 8th lord. It is moksha karaka and house of longevity. Sage Parashar does not say it a maraka but 7th, 12th from 8th is maraka. Moksha karaka give peace of mind, not wealth. It is 11th from 10th. It indicates obstructions or sudden gain, not continuous flow of wealth. It indicates break in profession or voluntary retirement, appointment after the death or retirement of other.Same is the case with 12th,4th two other moksha karaka house and Ketu. It indicates upward journey of spirit. Bur we count only worldly progress in terms or wealth, not even source of earning.> > So with Sage parashara we have to see jeeva and material of a house to understand him.> Love and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Dear Kursija Ji, Let us look at some of the indications of the 8th house: Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy .... etc. How is one supposed to get peace of mind with these kind of things happening? I agree that 8th house is a Moksha house, but the Moksha path paved by the 8th house is brutal. It destroys ones Life so makes one wonder what the purpose of Life is and hence the Soul goes towards Moksha. The flip side of the 8th house is also Kundalini Yoga, Ancient Oral Traditions, Occult etc which used in the right fashion, can lead to Moksha. But the path is very difficult, so I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind. Regards, -Manoj sreesog <sreesog Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 10:29:23 AM Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 Dear Kursija ji, That was a good effort to answer those questions - I appreciate you for that. Let us wach and wait for others opinion as well; we may got some more replies/thoughts. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> I feel that I am late to reply do to time constraint and other limitations.> But still I like to reply the question. First we should keep in mind that Sage Parashar has given more importance to peace of mind of the jeeva for happiness. 11th house is malefic from point of view of peace of mind. It gives material but not the peace of mind. With material it gives disease also as 6th from 6th. I know a very wealthy person who has every type of comfort of life and unlimited wealth. He was suffering from cancer of rectum. He was not able to sit on Italian sofa in centrally air-conditioned room. He moves from one corner of the room to other in agony. He has burning pain. He got operated for three time in foreign country. No amount of wealth gave him relief. It was in the dasha of 11th lord.> > Take 8th lord. It is moksha karaka and house of longevity. Sage Parashar does not say it a maraka but 7th, 12th from 8th is maraka. Moksha karaka give peace of mind, not wealth. It is 11th from 10th. It indicates obstructions or sudden gain, not continuous flow of wealth. It indicates break in profession or voluntary retirement, appointment after the death or retirement of other.Same is the case with 12th,4th two other moksha karaka house and Ketu. It indicates upward journey of spirit. Bur we count only worldly progress in terms or wealth, not even source of earning.> > So with Sage parashara we have to see jeeva and material of a house to understand him.> Love and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Utkal-ji, The discussion was about a planet being 8th & 11th lord. There are two such planets, Mercury (for Scorpio) & Jup (for Taurus). Both the planets are, otherwise, shubha graha. What I would like to know is..... whether black money & wrong practices would always be there if they don't get aspected by another Shubha graha ? regards Chakraborty utkal.panigrahi [utkal.panigrahi] Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 Dear Chakraborty Ji,8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha.Regards,Utkal. , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Seniors,> > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna.> > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st> attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business> has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit> during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of> Million dollars.> > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was> around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person> is a renowned palmist himself.> BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!!> > regards> > ChakrabortyThis Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 In the scorpio lagna people's chart, I have seen, mercurian influence took them to tax evation as a normal practise, such a merc if placed in 8th, 10th and 11th, has brought them windfalls, huge profitable deals and prestige as a man of substance. Jup in 11th is a great facilitator, even for tula lagna. Have seen, vrisabha lagna people hankering after money even doing spiritual sadhana, they wd goto their guru not for moksha but for financial gains, if jup in 10th, sometimes they do social service also still, such a jup makes them have sense of profit in first place. 8th lord in 10th, shows a short term power, huge power to native, great planning capacity for a rise. I dont know who made astro world believe that 8th is moksha house. Regards. Utkal. , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote: > > Dear Utkal-ji, > > The discussion was about a planet being 8th & 11th lord. > > There are two such planets, Mercury (for Scorpio) & Jup (for Taurus). > > Both the planets are, otherwise, shubha graha. > > What I would like to know is..... whether black money & wrong > practices would always be there if they don't get aspected by > another Shubha graha ? > > regards > > Chakraborty > > > ________________________________ > utkal.panigrahi [utkal.panigrahi] > Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:32 PM > > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 > > > > Dear Chakraborty Ji, > > 8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha. > > Regards, > Utkal. > > --- In <%40\ groups.com>, " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Seniors, > > > > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna. > > > > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st > > attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business > > has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit > > during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of > > Million dollars. > > > > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was > > around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person > > is a renowned palmist himself. > > BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!! > > > > regards > > > > Chakraborty > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Utkal-ji, Thanks. I know few Vrisava lagna people and some of them have the tendency to look out for money. But I am not sure whether that is applicable to all. May be that tendency would get diluted by other placements too. I am also a Vrisava lagna...however, I would not like to discuss my chart here. regards Chakraborty utkal.panigrahi [utkal.panigrahi] Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 In the scorpio lagna people's chart, I have seen, mercurian influence took them to tax evation as a normal practise, such a merc if placed in 8th, 10th and 11th, has brought them windfalls, huge profitable deals and prestige as a man of substance.Jup in 11th is a great facilitator, even for tula lagna.Have seen, vrisabha lagna people hankering after money even doing spiritual sadhana, they wd goto their guru not for moksha but for financial gains, if jup in 10th, sometimes they do social service also still, such a jup makes them have sense of profit in first place.8th lord in 10th, shows a short term power, huge power to native, great planning capacity for a rise.I dont know who made astro world believe that 8th is moksha house.Regards.Utkal. , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Utkal-ji,> > The discussion was about a planet being 8th & 11th lord.> > There are two such planets, Mercury (for Scorpio) & Jup (for Taurus).> > Both the planets are, otherwise, shubha graha.> > What I would like to know is..... whether black money & wrong> practices would always be there if they don't get aspected by> another Shubha graha ?> > regards> > Chakraborty> > > ________________________________> utkal.panigrahi [utkal.panigrahi]> Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:32 PM> > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12> > > > Dear Chakraborty Ji,> > 8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha.> > Regards,> Utkal.> > <%40>, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2@> wrote:> >> > Dear Seniors,> >> > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna.> >> > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st> > attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business> > has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit> > during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of> > Million dollars.> >> > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was> > around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person> > is a renowned palmist himself.> > BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!!> >> > regards> >> > Chakraborty> > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Manoj ji,//I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind.//I also agree with you but when we are peaceful with our materialistic life who will seek MOKSHA?(peace).Hence 8H/L are hard task masters towards the moksha path.12thH/L will take away whatever is left and give moksha depending upon other factors as well.......Love and regards,gopi. , Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:>> Dear Kursija Ji,> > Let us look at some of the indications of the 8th house: Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy .... etc. How is one supposed to get peace of mind with these kind of things happening? I agree that 8th house is a Moksha house, but the Moksha path paved by the 8th house is brutal. It destroys ones Life so makes one wonder what the purpose of Life is and hence the Soul goes towards Moksha.> > The flip side of the 8th house is also Kundalini Yoga, Ancient Oral Traditions, Occult etc which used in the right fashion, can lead to Moksha. But the path is very difficult, so I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind.> > Regards,> -Manoj> > > > > > ________________________________> sreesog sreesog > Tue, October 20, 2009 10:29:23 AM> Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12> > > Dear Kursija ji,> That was a good effort to answer those questions - I appreciate you for that. Let us wach and wait for others opinion as well; we may got some more replies/thoughts.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "S.C. Kursija" sckursija@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > I feel that I am late to reply do to time constraint and other limitations.> > But still I like to reply the question. First we should keep in mind that Sage Parashar has given more importance to peace of mind of the jeeva for happiness. 11th house is malefic from point of view of peace of mind. It gives material but not the peace of mind. With material it gives disease also as 6th from 6th. I know a very wealthy person who has every type of comfort of life and unlimited wealth. He was suffering from cancer of rectum. He was not able to sit on Italian sofa in centrally air-conditioned room. He moves from one corner of the room to other in agony. He has burning pain. He got operated for three time in foreign country. No amount of wealth gave him relief. It was in the dasha of 11th lord.> >> > Take 8th lord. It is moksha karaka and house of longevity. Sage Parashar does not say it a maraka but 7th, 12th from 8th is maraka. Moksha karaka give peace of mind, not wealth. It is 11th from 10th. It indicates obstructions or sudden gain, not continuous flow of wealth. It indicates break in profession or voluntary retirement, appointment after the death or retirement of other.Same is the case with 12th,4th two other moksha karaka house and Ketu. It indicates upward journey of spirit. Bur we count only worldly progress in terms or wealth, not even source of earning.> >> > So with Sage parashara we have to see jeeva and material of a house to understand him.> > Love and Regards> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Chakraborti ji, It's true, in the discussion we excluded rest of the chart, remaind focussed on just one aspect of 8th and 11th, It's no way univesal for all, the said tendency undoubtedly get diluted if rest of the chart ensures. Taurus lagna people can contribute in laying out solid foundation of an enterprise or institution. Utkal. , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote: > > Dear Utkal-ji, > > Thanks. I know few Vrisava lagna people and some of them have > the tendency to look out for money. But I am not sure whether > that is applicable to all. May be that tendency would get diluted > by other placements too. > > I am also a Vrisava lagna...however, I would not like to discuss > my chart here. > > regards > > Chakraborty > > ________________________________ > utkal.panigrahi [utkal.panigrahi] > Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:38 AM > > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 > > > > In the scorpio lagna people's chart, I have seen, mercurian influence took them to tax evation as a normal practise, such a merc if placed in 8th, 10th and 11th, has brought them windfalls, huge profitable deals and prestige as a man of substance. > > Jup in 11th is a great facilitator, even for tula lagna. > > Have seen, vrisabha lagna people hankering after money even doing spiritual sadhana, they wd goto their guru not for moksha but for financial gains, if jup in 10th, sometimes they do social service also still, such a jup makes them have sense of profit in first place. > > 8th lord in 10th, shows a short term power, huge power to native, great planning capacity for a rise. > > I dont know who made astro world believe that 8th is moksha house. > > Regards. > Utkal. > --- In <%40\ groups.com>, " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Utkal-ji, > > > > The discussion was about a planet being 8th & 11th lord. > > > > There are two such planets, Mercury (for Scorpio) & Jup (for Taurus). > > > > Both the planets are, otherwise, shubha graha. > > > > What I would like to know is..... whether black money & wrong > > practices would always be there if they don't get aspected by > > another Shubha graha ? > > > > regards > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > ________________________________ > > utkal.panigrahi [utkal.panigrahi@] > > Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:32 PM > > To: <%40\ groups.com> > > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 > > > > > > > > Dear Chakraborty Ji, > > > > 8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha. > > > > Regards, > > Utkal. > > > > --- In <%40\ groups.com><%40>, " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Seniors, > > > > > > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna. > > > > > > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st > > > attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business > > > has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit > > > during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of > > > Million dollars. > > > > > > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was > > > around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person > > > is a renowned palmist himself. > > > BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!! > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Manoj Chandran ji, I said that each house has two aspects one is material and other is spiritual. It depends on the planet to take out which aspect of the house. There is no doubt that the spiritual path is difficult. 8th house is 8th from the lagna, not for the other houses. Regards--- On Tue, 10/20/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 11:37 PM Dear Kursija Ji, Let us look at some of the indications of the 8th house: Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy .... etc. How is one supposed to get peace of mind with these kind of things happening? I agree that 8th house is a Moksha house, but the Moksha path paved by the 8th house is brutal. It destroys ones Life so makes one wonder what the purpose of Life is and hence the Soul goes towards Moksha. The flip side of the 8th house is also Kundalini Yoga, Ancient Oral Traditions, Occult etc which used in the right fashion, can lead to Moksha. But the path is very difficult, so I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind. Regards, -Manoj sreesog <sreesog Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 10:29:23 AM Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 Dear Kursija ji, That was a good effort to answer those questions - I appreciate you for that. Let us wach and wait for others opinion as well; we may got some more replies/thoughts. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> I feel that I am late to reply do to time constraint and other limitations.> But still I like to reply the question. First we should keep in mind that Sage Parashar has given more importance to peace of mind of the jeeva for happiness. 11th house is malefic from point of view of peace of mind. It gives material but not the peace of mind. With material it gives disease also as 6th from 6th. I know a very wealthy person who has every type of comfort of life and unlimited wealth. He was suffering from cancer of rectum. He was not able to sit on Italian sofa in centrally air-conditioned room. He moves from one corner of the room to other in agony. He has burning pain. He got operated for three time in foreign country. No amount of wealth gave him relief. It was in the dasha of 11th lord.> > Take 8th lord. It is moksha karaka and house of longevity. Sage Parashar does not say it a maraka but 7th, 12th from 8th is maraka. Moksha karaka give peace of mind, not wealth. It is 11th from 10th. It indicates obstructions or sudden gain, not continuous flow of wealth. It indicates break in profession or voluntary retirement, appointment after the death or retirement of other.Same is the case with 12th,4th two other moksha karaka house and Ketu. It indicates upward journey of spirit. Bur we count only worldly progress in terms or wealth, not even source of earning.> > So with Sage parashara we have to see jeeva and material of a house to understand him.> Love and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Utkal ji, Eighth house would rule-inheritance and perhaps dowry and also occult practices, transformation . Can we call it black money or bad? Every unearned wealth is not black money and every transformation is not bad nor are all occult people into bad practices. A planet is likely to give results of the stronger sign so for scorpio mercury would give results more as lord of virgo than of Gemini along with those of Gemini. I am a scorpio asc myself and this is what happened in my Jupiter mercury dasha without going into other details of horoscope: Got a professional rise including pay hike due to joining a better company as well as promotion. Father got sick resulting in change of career path: may be we can call it a negative transformation. In Saturn- mercury I was acquitted from a false dowry harassment case which had resulted in extreme harassment and closure of my business. Transformation again- positive along with gains in terms of acquittal from criminal allegations and formal study of astrology. Nothing black in terms of money or knowledge. With regards , " utkal.panigrahi " <utkal.panigrahi wrote: > > Dear Chakraborty Ji, > > 8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha. > > Regards, > Utkal. > > , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Seniors, > > > > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna. > > > > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st > > attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business > > has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit > > during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of > > Million dollars. > > > > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was > > around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person > > is a renowned palmist himself. > > BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!! > > > > regards > > > > Chakraborty > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Vikas, True, we need to check whole of horoscope to know what shape an attribute is taking. Can i ask where merc/jup/venus/mars are placed in your chart, it wd help us. 8th is the house of mystic interests, it's where we like to go deep, it's digging, it may or may not take us in occult practice or transformation. Digging helps in finding bt what we find out, comes under other houses. Regards, Utkal. , " vikasjeer " <vikasjeer wrote: > > Dear Utkal ji, > Eighth house would rule-inheritance and perhaps dowry and also occult practices, transformation . > Can we call it black money or bad? > Every unearned wealth is not black money and every transformation is not bad nor are all occult people into bad practices. > A planet is likely to give results of the stronger sign so for scorpio mercury would give results more as lord of virgo than of Gemini along with those of Gemini. > I am a scorpio asc myself and this is what happened in my Jupiter mercury dasha without going into other details of horoscope: > Got a professional rise including pay hike due to joining a better company as well as promotion. > Father got sick resulting in change of career path: may be we can call it a negative transformation. > In Saturn- mercury I was acquitted from a false dowry harassment case which had resulted in extreme harassment and closure of my business. > Transformation again- positive along with gains in terms of acquittal from criminal allegations and formal study of astrology. > Nothing black in terms of money or knowledge. > > With regards > > > , " utkal.panigrahi " <utkal.panigrahi@> wrote: > > > > Dear Chakraborty Ji, > > > > 8th lord is linked with black money and wrong practices unless it's aspected by a shubha graha. > > > > Regards, > > Utkal. > > > > , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Seniors, > > > > > > Jupiter is 8L & 11 L for Taurus lagna. > > > > > > Few years back, I had tried a chart for my friend. That was my 1st > > > attempt in analysis. The person had Jup in 11H (pisces). His business > > > has prospered like anything in Jup dasha. Although suffered a bit > > > during Jup-Ven & Jup-Ketu period when he was defrauded to a tune of > > > Million dollars. > > > > > > I don't remember the details...it was possibly 1959, June 06. TOB was > > > around just before the Sunrise. POB was Sialkote, Pakistan. The person > > > is a renowned palmist himself. > > > BTW, I failed miserably in that analysis too!! > > > > > > regards > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Manojji, Nobody tries for Moksha unless he is disillusioned by the normal worldly life. Nobody is disillusioned unless ...... 8 th house results come into action. You are right, but this is required.Chiranjiv Mehta--- On Tue, 20/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 Date: Tuesday, 20 October, 2009, 11:37 PM Dear Kursija Ji, Let us look at some of the indications of the 8th house: Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy .... etc. How is one supposed to get peace of mind with these kind of things happening? I agree that 8th house is a Moksha house, but the Moksha path paved by the 8th house is brutal. It destroys ones Life so makes one wonder what the purpose of Life is and hence the Soul goes towards Moksha. The flip side of the 8th house is also Kundalini Yoga, Ancient Oral Traditions, Occult etc which used in the right fashion, can lead to Moksha. But the path is very difficult, so I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind. Regards, -Manoj sreesog <sreesog >ancient_indian_ astrologyTue, October 20, 2009 10:29:23 AM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 Dear Kursija ji, That was a good effort to answer those questions - I appreciate you for that. Let us wach and wait for others opinion as well; we may got some more replies/thoughts. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> I feel that I am late to reply do to time constraint and other limitations.> But still I like to reply the question. First we should keep in mind that Sage Parashar has given more importance to peace of mind of the jeeva for happiness. 11th house is malefic from point of view of peace of mind. It gives material but not the peace of mind. With material it gives disease also as 6th from 6th. I know a very wealthy person who has every type of comfort of life and unlimited wealth. He was suffering from cancer of rectum. He was not able to sit on Italian sofa in centrally air-conditioned room. He moves from one corner of the room to other in agony. He has burning pain. He got operated for three time in foreign country. No amount of wealth gave him relief. It was in the dasha of 11th lord.> > Take 8th lord. It is moksha karaka and house of longevity. Sage Parashar does not say it a maraka but 7th, 12th from 8th is maraka. Moksha karaka give peace of mind, not wealth. It is 11th from 10th. It indicates obstructions or sudden gain, not continuous flow of wealth. It indicates break in profession or voluntary retirement, appointment after the death or retirement of other.Same is the case with 12th,4th two other moksha karaka house and Ketu. It indicates upward journey of spirit. Bur we count only worldly progress in terms or wealth, not even source of earning.> > So with Sage parashara we have to see jeeva and material of a house to understand him.> Love and Regards Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Chiranjiv ji, The first point - Nobody tries for Moksha unless he is disillusioned by the normal worldly life. - is OK But the second point - Nobody is disillusioned unless ...(Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy)... 8 th house results come into action - is NOT ok. This was not so in the case of Buddha, Mahaveera, Giddu Krishnamoorti, Osho, Guru Nanak, Ramana Maharshi or numerous such enlightened beings we know. And those who were in to -(Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy) - and then RAN AWAY FROM LIFE never became enlightened I belive. Certainly Moksha is NOT for them. Love and regards, Sreeandh , chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv wrote: > > Manojji, > > Nobody tries for Moksha unless he is disillusioned by the normal worldly life. > Nobody is disillusioned unless ...... 8 th house results come into action. > You are right, but this is required. > > Chiranjiv Mehta > > > --- On Tue, 20/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: > > > Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 > > Tuesday, 20 October, 2009, 11:37 PM > > > Dear Kursija Ji, > > Let us look at some of the indications of the 8th house: Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy .... etc. How is one supposed to get peace of mind with these kind of things happening? I agree that 8th house is a Moksha house, but the Moksha path paved by the 8th house is brutal. It destroys ones Life so makes one wonder what the purpose of Life is and hence the Soul goes towards Moksha. > > The flip side of the 8th house is also Kundalini Yoga, Ancient Oral Traditions, Occult etc which used in the right fashion, can lead to Moksha. But the path is very difficult, so I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind. > > Regards, > -Manoj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 That's true, most enlightened gems don't get high envolvement of 8th house other than osho. 8th wd contribute to the level, required to begin digging into maya. Some souls come to world with a mission, they don't need much preperation or digging indicated by 8th house, they already have light in their heart, they get good kendras and trikonas, 8th house domination says a rebirth with good trikonas and kendras. Prof Rao has set guidance to if somebody is born with a spiritual mission in his several books. Regards, Utkal , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Chiranjiv ji, > The first point - Nobody tries for Moksha unless he is disillusioned by the normal worldly life. - is OK > But the second point - Nobody is disillusioned unless ...(Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy)... 8 th house results come into action - is NOT ok. > This was not so in the case of Buddha, Mahaveera, Giddu Krishnamoorti, Osho, Guru Nanak, Ramana Maharshi or numerous such enlightened beings we know. > And those who were in to -(Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy) - and then RAN AWAY FROM LIFE never became enlightened I belive. Certainly Moksha is NOT for them. > Love and regards, > Sreeandh > > , chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv@> wrote: > > > > Manojji, > > > > Nobody tries for Moksha unless he is disillusioned by the normal worldly life. > > Nobody is disillusioned unless ...... 8 th house results come into action. > > You are right, but this is required. > > > > Chiranjiv Mehta > > > > > > --- On Tue, 20/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@> wrote: > > > > > > Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@> > > Re: Fwd: Bhavas 3-6-11 and 6-8-12 > > > > Tuesday, 20 October, 2009, 11:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kursija Ji, > > > > Let us look at some of the indications of the 8th house: Decapitation, Travel Due to Sudden Death, Humiliation, Scandals, Chronic Disease, Bankruptcy .... etc. How is one supposed to get peace of mind with these kind of things happening? I agree that 8th house is a Moksha house, but the Moksha path paved by the 8th house is brutal. It destroys ones Life so makes one wonder what the purpose of Life is and hence the Soul goes towards Moksha. > > > > The flip side of the 8th house is also Kundalini Yoga, Ancient Oral Traditions, Occult etc which used in the right fashion, can lead to Moksha. But the path is very difficult, so I agree that 8H is a powerful Moksha house, but will not give peace of mind. > > > > Regards, > > -Manoj > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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