Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskerji and all,There are many methods to erect the bhava chalit chart.1) Each rasi in a house (Parashari)This is what Sreenadhji, Sanjayji Rath, my jyotish other direct gurus and as per my knowledge at the time of my teaching K N Raoji all were considering, majorly.I am following this method and Manojji Chandran is following the same.2) Equal House (30 degree each)3) Porphyry house (Sri Pathi method)4) Placidus House (KP uses it, westerner follow this )There are more system which can be computed in Jhora likeKoch House, Campanus house, Axial rotation system houses, Regiomontanus house, Polich House, Alcabitus house.Secondly which reference point we must take to start a house :I) Ascendent at the start of first house.II) Ascendent at the middle of first house.As far as my knowledge KP system uses two thing.Placidus house and ascendent at the start of first house.Please confirm it for the correctness.Many other uses Equal method with Ascendent at the middle of first house.Can we make some consensus conclusion which is the best one ?Merits and Demerits of each system (with reasoning if possible) ?Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur. , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > No, let there be a change in this Quiz I am proposing. You predict with> the Natal Chart only, and I will predict with the Bhava Chalit. So that> gives you an edge over me does it not ?> > Bhaskar.> > > , "Bhaskar"> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> >> > Ancient people knew how to predict .> >> > How many of us bragging about knowledge of Ancient astrology, bringing> > in long articles of Copy paste lifted from other websites, and trying> to> > exhibit non-existent knowledge, know how to predict.> >> > Instead of discussing/arguing with me or using your powers of> moderation> > over me, or reprimanding as being the caretakers of this Group, I> > suggest the following which would be more honourable for all of you -> >> > 1) Take some birth data of prominent figures who are alive in india.> >> > 2) Let there be consensus of these birth particulars from the> > participants.> >> > 3) Predict for the next year ( Next 12 months) what would happen to> them> > and when.> >> > 4) No generalisations please but actual predictions.> >> > 5) use any technique you think is ancient or Modern, indian or> Western,> > does not matter.> >> > I am ready to do this. How many else are ?> >> > Bhaskar.> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Goel ji,

 

In the first year at BVB Bombay they teach us how to compute charts

through each such method of house division. In fact for next 4 years

students at BVB are doing mathematics in majority and which is the

reason you will find that in the 2nd year only 30% of the students

remain out of 100 in the first year.

 

To take all the methods and talk about them, one needs a audience who is

receptive, and also we need more members to do the explaining (Teaching)

part. When people are much against the Parashari Bhav Chalit itself,

then what to talk of other methods.

 

it is not our loss...

 

best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

, " vijay.goel "

<goyalvj wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskerji and all,

>

> There are many methods to erect the bhava chalit chart.

>

> 1) Each rasi in a house (Parashari)

>

> This is what Sreenadhji, Sanjayji Rath, my jyotish other direct gurus

> and as per my knowledge at the time of my teaching K N Raoji all were

> considering, majorly.I am following this method and Manojji Chandran

is

> following the same.

>

> 2) Equal House (30 degree each)

>

> 3) Porphyry house (Sri Pathi method)

>

> 4) Placidus House (KP uses it, westerner follow this )

>

> There are more system which can be computed in Jhora like

> Koch House, Campanus house, Axial rotation system houses,

Regiomontanus

> house, Polich House, Alcabitus house.

>

> Secondly which reference point we must take to start a house :

>

> I) Ascendent at the start of first house.

> II) Ascendent at the middle of first house.

>

> As far as my knowledge KP system uses two thing.

> Placidus house and ascendent at the start of first house.

> Please confirm it for the correctness.

>

> Many other uses Equal method with Ascendent at the middle of first

> house.

>

> Can we make some consensus conclusion which is the best one ?

> Merits and Demerits of each system (with reasoning if possible) ?

>

> Thankyou,

> Best Wishes,

> Vijay Goel

> Jaipur.

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > No, let there be a change in this Quiz I am proposing. You predict

> with

> > the Natal Chart only, and I will predict with the Bhava Chalit. So

> that

> > gives you an edge over me does it not ?

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Ancient people knew how to predict .

> > >

> > > How many of us bragging about knowledge of Ancient astrology,

> bringing

> > > in long articles of Copy paste lifted from other websites, and

> trying

> > to

> > > exhibit non-existent knowledge, know how to predict.

> > >

> > > Instead of discussing/arguing with me or using your powers of

> > moderation

> > > over me, or reprimanding as being the caretakers of this Group, I

> > > suggest the following which would be more honourable for all of

you

> -

> > >

> > > 1) Take some birth data of prominent figures who are alive in

india.

> > >

> > > 2) Let there be consensus of these birth particulars from the

> > > participants.

> > >

> > > 3) Predict for the next year ( Next 12 months) what would happen

to

> > them

> > > and when.

> > >

> > > 4) No generalisations please but actual predictions.

> > >

> > > 5) use any technique you think is ancient or Modern, indian or

> > Western,

> > > does not matter.

> > >

> > > I am ready to do this. How many else are ?

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vijay-ji,

 

The following is a Commoner's view only :

 

For any chart erection, 3 things are required

 

a) Ayanamsha or reference point

b) Mathematical model for erecting houses

c) Measurement method for location of planets & sensitive points

(Like some minority follow a geospatial position for planets)

 

And based on that, different matrices can be prepared

 

The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information

that is required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects,

probably at the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.

 

In case we know the limitation of a system (what this sytem will

highlight and what it may obscure under what conditions), the

application of the system will give sporadic results. I remember

an article (possibly by D Frawley) where he talks about learning

Sripati method of division & the techniques of using that division.

That means that for different matrices, different techniques might

be required to analyse the data

 

May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

the Moderators agree.

 

regards

 

Chakraborty

 

 

 

vijay.goel [goyalvj] Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:07 AM Subject: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

Dear Bhaskerji and all,There are many methods to erect the bhava chalit chart.1) Each rasi in a house (Parashari)This is what Sreenadhji, Sanjayji Rath, my jyotish other direct gurus and as per my knowledge at the time of my teaching K N Raoji all were considering, majorly.I am following this method and Manojji Chandran is following the same.2) Equal House (30 degree each)3) Porphyry house (Sri Pathi method)4) Placidus House (KP uses it, westerner follow this )There are more system which can be computed in Jhora likeKoch House, Campanus house, Axial rotation system houses, Regiomontanus house, Polich House, Alcabitus house.Secondly which reference point we must take to start a house :I) Ascendent at the start of first house.II) Ascendent at the middle of first house.As far as my knowledge KP system uses two thing.Placidus house and ascendent at the start of first house.Please confirm it for the correctness.Many other uses Equal method with Ascendent at the middle of first house.Can we make some consensus conclusion which is the best one ?Merits and Demerits of each system (with reasoning if possible) ?Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur. , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > No, let there be a change in this Quiz I am proposing. You predict with> the Natal Chart only, and I will predict with the Bhava Chalit. So that> gives you an edge over me does it not ?> > Bhaskar.> > > , "Bhaskar"> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> >> > Ancient people knew how to predict .> >> > How many of us bragging about knowledge of Ancient astrology, bringing> > in long articles of Copy paste lifted from other websites, and trying> to> > exhibit non-existent knowledge, know how to predict.> >> > Instead of discussing/arguing with me or using your powers of> moderation> > over me, or reprimanding as being the caretakers of this Group, I> > suggest the following which would be more honourable for all of you -> >> > 1) Take some birth data of prominent figures who are alive in india.> >> > 2) Let there be consensus of these birth particulars from the> > participants.> >> > 3) Predict for the next year ( Next 12 months) what would happen to> them> > and when.> >> > 4) No generalisations please but actual predictions.> >> > 5) use any technique you think is ancient or Modern, indian or> Western,> > does not matter.> >> > I am ready to do this. How many else are ?> >> > Bhaskar.> >>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji,

//> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information that is

required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects, probably at

the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.//

Well said! Yes, certainly the other systems highlights some particular aspects,

but CERTAINLY they BLUR OF DETAILS AT SOME OTHER LOCATIONS. This is the very

reason for rejecting these other methods as authentic because they BLUR even the

fundamentals/foundations! For example, as per Yavana Jataka " every every sign

and degree of a sign has got different nature and the whole of astrological

results is a result of the mixing of the nature of various signs. " When we

choose a house system (other than sign as house) all these details and

foundations gets blured and the zodiac becomes too much mathamatical losing all

those numerous RESULTS (logical result derivation possibilities and basic

approach), and become mere bunch of numbers with only a handful of 'sensitive

points' to show off! Any intelligent seeker of astrological wisdom can readily

see this and when one find that 'the bhava chalita BLURS the

foundations/fundamentals' he naturally rejects its and resorts to the use

traditional, consistent system (i.e. system consistent with the

foundations/fundamentals) and start speaking against the new/modern technique of

Bhava chalit (moving houses) even though such TECHNIQUES do provide some useful

clues at times.

In short -

* A TECHNIQUE (a small tool) that is NOT in tune with the whole would be (and

should be) rejected even if it provides useful results at times - because it

contaminates the original system.

* A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be (and

should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no specific

pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.

//> May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

> discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

> the Moderators agree.//

Yes, the experts in such techniques (small but in a way useful at times tools)

are welcome to come forward and demonstrate the same. Even though not part of

the traditional and consistent whole these techniques/tools also are also

helpful at times. The point -

* If treating sign as house is a GENERAL RULE that is applicable everywhere.

* Creating a house system (any you choose) and finding some sensitive points is

a SPECIAL RULE that can be useful in some SPECIAL CASES. (They CANNOT be neither

generally applicable or useful; nor considered to be in tune with the whole

system)

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Vijay-ji,

>

> The following is a Commoner's view only :

>

> For any chart erection, 3 things are required

>

> a) Ayanamsha or reference point

> b) Mathematical model for erecting houses

> c) Measurement method for location of planets & sensitive points

> (Like some minority follow a geospatial position for planets)

>

> And based on that, different matrices can be prepared

>

> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information

> that is required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects,

> probably at the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.

>

> In case we know the limitation of a system (what this sytem will

> highlight and what it may obscure under what conditions), the

> application of the system will give sporadic results. I remember

> an article (possibly by D Frawley) where he talks about learning

> Sripati method of division & the techniques of using that division.

> That means that for different matrices, different techniques might

> be required to analyse the data

>

> May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

> discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

> the Moderators agree.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh-ji,

 

My take is slightly different.

 

When we know the limitation of a tool clearly, it can be utilized

as a special supplement.

 

Probably some of the tools rather gives a 'thumb rule', borne out

of observations by people who may have / have not understood

the logic or decided not to tell the logic to common man.

 

I will give a practical example from my own field.

 

In mills / sites, there is always a chance of mixing of different material

like alloy steel plates and ordinary steel plates getting mixed.

 

The sorting is carried out by a Sorter machine. It just checks a factor

(magnetic permeability) and sorts them out. This is a very crude

(because it can not check slight variations as the magnetic

permeability is dependent on so many things) but very effective

system. But when you need to know the exact material, you

go for advanced method of checking each of alloying element.

 

My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.

 

It is like -- one is getting exact co-ordinates for a place from a

system and other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

India). The advantage is ..... when doing a complex calculation

with many steps, it helps if we know the rough 'thumb rule'

answer. That way, cross-check can be done for any error

in putting decimal points.

 

Anyway, let us agree to dis-agree on this issue.

 

regards

 

Chakraborty

 

 

 

 

sreesog [sreesog] Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

Dear Chakraborty ji, //> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information that is required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects, probably at the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.//Well said! Yes, certainly the other systems highlights some particular aspects, but CERTAINLY they BLUR OF DETAILS AT SOME OTHER LOCATIONS. This is the very reason for rejecting these other methods as authentic because they BLUR even the fundamentals/foundations! For example, as per Yavana Jataka "every every sign and degree of a sign has got different nature and the whole of astrological results is a result of the mixing of the nature of various signs." When we choose a house system (other than sign as house) all these details and foundations gets blured and the zodiac becomes too much mathamatical losing all those numerous RESULTS (logical result derivation possibilities and basic approach), and become mere bunch of numbers with only a handful of 'sensitive points' to show off! Any intelligent seeker of astrological wisdom can readily see this and when one find that 'the bhava chalita BLURS the foundations/fundamentals' he naturally rejects its and resorts to the use traditional, consistent system (i.e. system consistent with the foundations/fundamentals) and start speaking against the new/modern technique of Bhava chalit (moving houses) even though such TECHNIQUES do provide some useful clues at times. In short -* A TECHNIQUE (a small tool) that is NOT in tune with the whole would be (and should be) rejected even if it provides useful results at times - because it contaminates the original system.* A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be (and should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.//> May be the learned among the forum may come forward & > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided> the Moderators agree.//Yes, the experts in such techniques (small but in a way useful at times tools) are welcome to come forward and demonstrate the same. Even though not part of the traditional and consistent whole these techniques/tools also are also helpful at times. The point -* If treating sign as house is a GENERAL RULE that is applicable everywhere.* Creating a house system (any you choose) and finding some sensitive points is a SPECIAL RULE that can be useful in some SPECIAL CASES. (They CANNOT be neither generally applicable or useful; nor considered to be in tune with the whole system)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Vijay-ji,> > The following is a Commoner's view only :> > For any chart erection, 3 things are required> > a) Ayanamsha or reference point> b) Mathematical model for erecting houses> c) Measurement method for location of planets & sensitive points> (Like some minority follow a geospatial position for planets)> > And based on that, different matrices can be prepared> > The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information> that is required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects,> probably at the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.> > In case we know the limitation of a system (what this sytem will> highlight and what it may obscure under what conditions), the> application of the system will give sporadic results. I remember> an article (possibly by D Frawley) where he talks about learning> Sripati method of division & the techniques of using that division.> That means that for different matrices, different techniques might> be required to analyse the data> > May be the learned among the forum may come forward & > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided> the Moderators agree.> > regards> > ChakrabortyThis Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakroborty ji,

 

Your mail reminds me of what I have been doing for 28 years or so. I

have been selling " Kanthal " and " Nichrome " for the major part of my

business Life, which are alloys . These come in rods or wire forms. The

alloy Kanthal I always kept two qualities in wire form and they look

100% same physically and chemical wise only few laboratories can

seperate the difference. because there is only 1% of Aluminium

composition different in one quality and the another. I mean one quality

has 5.5% AL and the other has 6.5% , while rest of the composition

remains same for other ingredients in both wires. But you know the

difference in price? One costs Rs.1200- while the other costs Rs.1800-

So we were the first in india to develop an electronic digital milliohm

metre ( 3 digits after the decimal) about 25 years ago, to check the

milliohms and teach the clients not to buy the lower grade by paying

more to spurious dealers.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh-ji,

>

> My take is slightly different.

>

> When we know the limitation of a tool clearly, it can be utilized

> as a special supplement.

>

> Probably some of the tools rather gives a 'thumb rule', borne out

> of observations by people who may have / have not understood

> the logic or decided not to tell the logic to common man.

>

> I will give a practical example from my own field.

>

> In mills / sites, there is always a chance of mixing of different

material

> like alloy steel plates and ordinary steel plates getting mixed.

>

> The sorting is carried out by a Sorter machine. It just checks a

factor

> (magnetic permeability) and sorts them out. This is a very crude

> (because it can not check slight variations as the magnetic

> permeability is dependent on so many things) but very effective

> system. But when you need to know the exact material, you

> go for advanced method of checking each of alloying element.

>

> My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

> whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.

>

> It is like -- one is getting exact co-ordinates for a place from a

> system and other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

> India). The advantage is ..... when doing a complex calculation

> with many steps, it helps if we know the rough 'thumb rule'

> answer. That way, cross-check can be done for any error

> in putting decimal points.

>

> Anyway, let us agree to dis-agree on this issue.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> sreesog [sreesog]

> Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:04 PM

>

> Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways

to erect.

>

>

>

> Dear Chakraborty ji,

> //> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the

information that is required. The other systems highlights some

particular aspects, probably at the cost of blurring of details at some

other locations.//

> Well said! Yes, certainly the other systems highlights some particular

aspects, but CERTAINLY they BLUR OF DETAILS AT SOME OTHER LOCATIONS.

This is the very reason for rejecting these other methods as authentic

because they BLUR even the fundamentals/foundations! For example, as per

Yavana Jataka " every every sign and degree of a sign has got different

nature and the whole of astrological results is a result of the mixing

of the nature of various signs. " When we choose a house system (other

than sign as house) all these details and foundations gets blured and

the zodiac becomes too much mathamatical losing all those numerous

RESULTS (logical result derivation possibilities and basic approach),

and become mere bunch of numbers with only a handful of 'sensitive

points' to show off! Any intelligent seeker of astrological wisdom can

readily see this and when one find that 'the bhava chalita BLURS the

foundations/fundamentals' he naturally rejects its and resorts to the

use traditional, consistent system (i.e. system consistent with the

foundations/fundamentals) and start speaking against the new/modern

technique of Bhava chalit (moving houses) even though such TECHNIQUES do

provide some useful clues at times.

> In short -

> * A TECHNIQUE (a small tool) that is NOT in tune with the whole would

be (and should be) rejected even if it provides useful results at times

- because it contaminates the original system.

> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would

be (and should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance

and no specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original

system.

> //> May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

> > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

> > the Moderators agree.//

> Yes, the experts in such techniques (small but in a way useful at

times tools) are welcome to come forward and demonstrate the same. Even

though not part of the traditional and consistent whole these

techniques/tools also are also helpful at times. The point -

> * If treating sign as house is a GENERAL RULE that is applicable

everywhere.

> * Creating a house system (any you choose) and finding some sensitive

points is a SPECIAL RULE that can be useful in some SPECIAL CASES. (They

CANNOT be neither generally applicable or useful; nor considered to be

in tune with the whole system)

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> --- In

<\

%40>, " Chakraborty, PL " CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vijay-ji,

> >

> > The following is a Commoner's view only :

> >

> > For any chart erection, 3 things are required

> >

> > a) Ayanamsha or reference point

> > b) Mathematical model for erecting houses

> > c) Measurement method for location of planets & sensitive points

> > (Like some minority follow a geospatial position for planets)

> >

> > And based on that, different matrices can be prepared

> >

> > The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information

> > that is required. The other systems highlights some particular

aspects,

> > probably at the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.

> >

> > In case we know the limitation of a system (what this sytem will

> > highlight and what it may obscure under what conditions), the

> > application of the system will give sporadic results. I remember

> > an article (possibly by D Frawley) where he talks about learning

> > Sripati method of division & the techniques of using that division.

> > That means that for different matrices, different techniques might

> > be required to analyse the data

> >

> > May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

> > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

> > the Moderators agree.

> >

> > regards

> >

> > Chakraborty

>

>

>

> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,

India. The information contained in this electronic message and any

attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the

addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged

information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not

disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender

immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji,

I could see your point. But there is a clear reason for my differing.

//My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.//

It is not that simple. Just look at this -

* The sages provided a clear framework of Signs. Then they said - The results

originate based on " Anyonya samyoga vikalpanabhir " (from Spujidwaja hora)

meaning, the " The results originate/understood based on the MUTUAL MIXING of the

nature of various signs " . This mutual mixing is implemented/visualized based on

-

* A sign is divided into 2 Horas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

* A sign is divided into 3 Drekkanas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

* A sign is divided into 4 Chaturthamsas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

* A sign is divided into 5 Panchamamsas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

and so on. This is the very process of " mutual mixing of nature of various

signs " .

Now when someone mounts a Bhava Chalita (Moving House system) on top of this

basic/fundamental framework you see. Then -

* They are CHANGING THE BOUNDARIES of houses (which was earlier in tune with

the signs and was helping much in deriving results). Thus they are deriving a

new Sign system and calling it Bhava Chakra! (If you don't believe me read the

next point)

* Since the new sign system named Bhava Chakra is now in place we need to

divide the Houses in to amsas, and thus concepts like Bhavottama comes in!!!

(Certainly this is something unimagined by the sages! They divided the signs in

to houses, and now people are creating a new sign system with the name Bhava

Chakra and dividing them in Amsas!)

* Ok. With the new sign system on top of the original signs, what happened to

those rulerships and Naksahtra divisions? Huh, they are lying here and there cut

into pieces - half in one house and remaining in another! Then what will happen

to the original logics used to derive results based on them? Ha..Ha.. The answer

is, for that you sill have to go back to the original Sign/nakshatra system!

Then why this fuss in the fist place at all? We ask - Do you have any ancient

quotes guiding you on 'how to derive results based on this neo-houses and

new-bhavamsas and neo-bhavottams? The answer is a mouth opening- NO! The next

question would be have derived any neo-system based on which such results can be

arrived at? a mouth opening- NO! And we are forced to say - BULLSHIT!!!

Hope you have understood my perspective and the flow of thought. And this is

the real story behind! They have distorted the original system and does not have

a proper replacement; a half baby without legs!

You said - //other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

> India).//

May be one point needs to be clarified here - When I said -

//> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be (and

should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no specific

pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.//

I never meant to say or point that the Traditional techniques are not useful in

pinpointing the results! That was just a statement about the new methods some of

which are in tune with the tradition and some not - and NOT about the

traditional system itself! The traditional system is much better and useful in

pinpointing the events and deriving the nature of events - compared to new born

system that boast of decimal accuracy without evidence.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh-ji,

>

> My take is slightly different.

>

> When we know the limitation of a tool clearly, it can be utilized

> as a special supplement.

>

> Probably some of the tools rather gives a 'thumb rule', borne out

> of observations by people who may have / have not understood

> the logic or decided not to tell the logic to common man.

>

> I will give a practical example from my own field.

>

> In mills / sites, there is always a chance of mixing of different material

> like alloy steel plates and ordinary steel plates getting mixed.

>

> The sorting is carried out by a Sorter machine. It just checks a factor

> (magnetic permeability) and sorts them out. This is a very crude

> (because it can not check slight variations as the magnetic

> permeability is dependent on so many things) but very effective

> system. But when you need to know the exact material, you

> go for advanced method of checking each of alloying element.

>

> My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

> whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.

>

> It is like -- one is getting exact co-ordinates for a place from a

> system and other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

> India). The advantage is ..... when doing a complex calculation

> with many steps, it helps if we know the rough 'thumb rule'

> answer. That way, cross-check can be done for any error

> in putting decimal points.

>

> Anyway, let us agree to dis-agree on this issue.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> sreesog [sreesog]

> Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:04 PM

>

> Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to

erect.

>

>

>

> Dear Chakraborty ji,

> //> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information that

is required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects, probably at

the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.//

> Well said! Yes, certainly the other systems highlights some particular

aspects, but CERTAINLY they BLUR OF DETAILS AT SOME OTHER LOCATIONS. This is the

very reason for rejecting these other methods as authentic because they BLUR

even the fundamentals/foundations! For example, as per Yavana Jataka " every

every sign and degree of a sign has got different nature and the whole of

astrological results is a result of the mixing of the nature of various signs. "

When we choose a house system (other than sign as house) all these details and

foundations gets blured and the zodiac becomes too much mathamatical losing all

those numerous RESULTS (logical result derivation possibilities and basic

approach), and become mere bunch of numbers with only a handful of 'sensitive

points' to show off! Any intelligent seeker of astrological wisdom can readily

see this and when one find that 'the bhava chalita BLURS the

foundations/fundamentals' he naturally rejects its and resorts to the use

traditional, consistent system (i.e. system consistent with the

foundations/fundamentals) and start speaking against the new/modern technique of

Bhava chalit (moving houses) even though such TECHNIQUES do provide some useful

clues at times.

> In short -

> * A TECHNIQUE (a small tool) that is NOT in tune with the whole would be (and

should be) rejected even if it provides useful results at times - because it

contaminates the original system.

> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be (and

should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no specific

pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.

> //> May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

> > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

> > the Moderators agree.//

> Yes, the experts in such techniques (small but in a way useful at times tools)

are welcome to come forward and demonstrate the same. Even though not part of

the traditional and consistent whole these techniques/tools also are also

helpful at times. The point -

> * If treating sign as house is a GENERAL RULE that is applicable everywhere.

> * Creating a house system (any you choose) and finding some sensitive points

is a SPECIAL RULE that can be useful in some SPECIAL CASES. (They CANNOT be

neither generally applicable or useful; nor considered to be in tune with the

whole system)

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

My Dear Sreenadh ji,

 

Evidence is here to see and notice, in my form very much present on your

Forum. You know about my predictions whether they are successful or not

and their degree of success, these all come only through the Bhava

Chalit and not through the Natal Chart positions.

 

By making Bhava Chalit Chart, nothing changes. the planetary degrees

does not change, the planet in sign does not change, the Nakshatra does

not change, but only house results change. Which is why the BVB Bombay

less much stress on Mathematics. Just all this theory will not make one

understand what is being talked about. One needs to prepare 50 charts

manually without help of computer and under a recognised Master, only

then will one understand these intracasies.

 

You are also aware how I explain every prediction through details in my

past records anyone can check this. All is original work and nothing has

been lifted from copy paste but what has been given, is what is actually

experienced by me and taught to me by my masters.

 

best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " sreesog " <sreesog

wrote:

>

> Dear Chakraborty ji,

> I could see your point. But there is a clear reason for my differing.

> //My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

> whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.//

> It is not that simple. Just look at this -

> * The sages provided a clear framework of Signs. Then they said - The

results originate based on " Anyonya samyoga vikalpanabhir " (from

Spujidwaja hora) meaning, the " The results originate/understood based on

the MUTUAL MIXING of the nature of various signs " . This mutual mixing is

implemented/visualized based on -

> * A sign is divided into 2 Horas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

> * A sign is divided into 3 Drekkanas and sign/planet rulership

ascribed.

> * A sign is divided into 4 Chaturthamsas and sign/planet rulership

ascribed.

> * A sign is divided into 5 Panchamamsas and sign/planet rulership

ascribed.

> and so on. This is the very process of " mutual mixing of nature of

various signs " .

> Now when someone mounts a Bhava Chalita (Moving House system) on top

of this basic/fundamental framework you see. Then -

> * They are CHANGING THE BOUNDARIES of houses (which was earlier in

tune with the signs and was helping much in deriving results). Thus they

are deriving a new Sign system and calling it Bhava Chakra! (If you

don't believe me read the next point)

> * Since the new sign system named Bhava Chakra is now in place we need

to divide the Houses in to amsas, and thus concepts like Bhavottama

comes in!!! (Certainly this is something unimagined by the sages! They

divided the signs in to houses, and now people are creating a new sign

system with the name Bhava Chakra and dividing them in Amsas!)

> * Ok. With the new sign system on top of the original signs, what

happened to those rulerships and Naksahtra divisions? Huh, they are

lying here and there cut into pieces - half in one house and remaining

in another! Then what will happen to the original logics used to derive

results based on them? Ha..Ha.. The answer is, for that you sill have to

go back to the original Sign/nakshatra system! Then why this fuss in the

fist place at all? We ask - Do you have any ancient quotes guiding you

on 'how to derive results based on this neo-houses and new-bhavamsas and

neo-bhavottams? The answer is a mouth opening- NO! The next question

would be have derived any neo-system based on which such results can be

arrived at? a mouth opening- NO! And we are forced to say - BULLSHIT!!!

> Hope you have understood my perspective and the flow of thought. And

this is the real story behind! They have distorted the original system

and does not have a proper replacement; a half baby without legs!

> You said - //other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

> > India).//

> May be one point needs to be clarified here - When I said -

> //> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole

would be (and should be) accepted even if it provides only general

guidance and no specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the

original system.//

> I never meant to say or point that the Traditional techniques are not

useful in pinpointing the results! That was just a statement about the

new methods some of which are in tune with the tradition and some not -

and NOT about the traditional system itself! The traditional system is

much better and useful in pinpointing the events and deriving the nature

of events - compared to new born system that boast of decimal accuracy

without evidence.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Chakraborty, PL "

CHAKRABORTYP2@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh-ji,

> >

> > My take is slightly different.

> >

> > When we know the limitation of a tool clearly, it can be utilized

> > as a special supplement.

> >

> > Probably some of the tools rather gives a 'thumb rule', borne out

> > of observations by people who may have / have not understood

> > the logic or decided not to tell the logic to common man.

> >

> > I will give a practical example from my own field.

> >

> > In mills / sites, there is always a chance of mixing of different

material

> > like alloy steel plates and ordinary steel plates getting mixed.

> >

> > The sorting is carried out by a Sorter machine. It just checks a

factor

> > (magnetic permeability) and sorts them out. This is a very crude

> > (because it can not check slight variations as the magnetic

> > permeability is dependent on so many things) but very effective

> > system. But when you need to know the exact material, you

> > go for advanced method of checking each of alloying element.

> >

> > My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

> > whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.

> >

> > It is like -- one is getting exact co-ordinates for a place from a

> > system and other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

> > India). The advantage is ..... when doing a complex calculation

> > with many steps, it helps if we know the rough 'thumb rule'

> > answer. That way, cross-check can be done for any error

> > in putting decimal points.

> >

> > Anyway, let us agree to dis-agree on this issue.

> >

> > regards

> >

> > Chakraborty

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > sreesog [sreesog@]

> > Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:04 PM

> >

> > Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many

ways to erect.

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Chakraborty ji,

> > //> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the

information that is required. The other systems highlights some

particular aspects, probably at the cost of blurring of details at some

other locations.//

> > Well said! Yes, certainly the other systems highlights some

particular aspects, but CERTAINLY they BLUR OF DETAILS AT SOME OTHER

LOCATIONS. This is the very reason for rejecting these other methods as

authentic because they BLUR even the fundamentals/foundations! For

example, as per Yavana Jataka " every every sign and degree of a sign has

got different nature and the whole of astrological results is a result

of the mixing of the nature of various signs. " When we choose a house

system (other than sign as house) all these details and foundations gets

blured and the zodiac becomes too much mathamatical losing all those

numerous RESULTS (logical result derivation possibilities and basic

approach), and become mere bunch of numbers with only a handful of

'sensitive points' to show off! Any intelligent seeker of astrological

wisdom can readily see this and when one find that 'the bhava chalita

BLURS the foundations/fundamentals' he naturally rejects its and resorts

to the use traditional, consistent system (i.e. system consistent with

the foundations/fundamentals) and start speaking against the new/modern

technique of Bhava chalit (moving houses) even though such TECHNIQUES do

provide some useful clues at times.

> > In short -

> > * A TECHNIQUE (a small tool) that is NOT in tune with the whole

would be (and should be) rejected even if it provides useful results at

times - because it contaminates the original system.

> > * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would

be (and should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance

and no specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original

system.

> > //> May be the learned among the forum may come forward &

> > > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided

> > > the Moderators agree.//

> > Yes, the experts in such techniques (small but in a way useful at

times tools) are welcome to come forward and demonstrate the same. Even

though not part of the traditional and consistent whole these

techniques/tools also are also helpful at times. The point -

> > * If treating sign as house is a GENERAL RULE that is applicable

everywhere.

> > * Creating a house system (any you choose) and finding some

sensitive points is a SPECIAL RULE that can be useful in some SPECIAL

CASES. (They CANNOT be neither generally applicable or useful; nor

considered to be in tune with the whole system)

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji,

//You know about my predictions whether they are successful or not

> and their degree of success//

We are not speaking about your predictions - the discussion is not you centric

at all - but instead about the logic of a system - i.e. Bhava chalit. Instead of

being self centric - please look at the subject being discussed.

//Just all this theory will not make one understand what is being talked

about.//

It is not mere theory that is happening here - is it so? Even if you think so,

I don't think the majority of the group will have that opinion. Enough practical

demonstrations also happening here I believe. Further there is proof that you

too think so - based on the statement " the group that has done maximum number of

blind chart readings done in previous year " - possibly an unintended - but

praise in disguise.

//> You are also aware how I explain every prediction through details in my past

records anyone can check this. //

I know that you are very good astrologer; no, better almost everyone in this

group know that you are a very good astrologer. Actually we have only 2 major

much active professional astrologers in this group now - Sunil ji and You - and

none others. Since it is a fact everyone knows, just leave it and come back to

the subject under discussion.

//nothing has been lifted from copy paste //

You have been repeatedly talking about copy-pasting for the past 2 days. What

do you want to say? Please speak it out clearly. Do you want to say that I have

copy pasted something from somewhere? Or is it someone else? Don't create mist

like the cinema journalists - but just boldly speak-out what you want to say.

If you want to point at me - ok, just go ahead on this with proper reference.

Oh! Now I started worrying, is the disease coming to me as well - am I becoming

self centric! Ha..Ha.. Just jocking.

Dear Bhaskar ji, We are all human beings who may go correct at times and wrong

at times. Nothing can be perfect, and no system can be totally error proof. If

10 cases we take and predict even for the best astrologers there is a chance

that 3-4 may go wrong (or let us use the polite word, will become some what

correct only) for almost sure. We need to accept it as a ground reality and

should continue learning and improving ourselves. There is not a single

astrologer within this group or out side - whatever tools and techniques they

might be using - who can predict accurately in all times for all cases. That is

simply impossible. We have to live with the reality and accept it as is.

Now if you like using Bhava Chalita, then use it - what is wrong in it? If I

don't like using it, then it is ok - there is no need I should use it. That is

the practical face of it.

Now coming to historical/theoretical discussion - If Bhava chalita was in

existence before Sripati; ok - just show the proof for it and the argument is

over. If it was not in existance; ok - accept it. There is nothing to be

emotional in such cases since we are just speaking about objective facts which

usually cannot have two answers. Such things are unrelated to us and so we are

all mature enough to speak about such historical and theoretical things in an

objective manner I believe.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

>

> My Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> Evidence is here to see and notice, in my form very much present on your

> Forum. You know about my predictions whether they are successful or not

> and their degree of success, these all come only through the Bhava

> Chalit and not through the Natal Chart positions.

>

> By making Bhava Chalit Chart, nothing changes. the planetary degrees

> does not change, the planet in sign does not change, the Nakshatra does

> not change, but only house results change. Which is why the BVB Bombay

> less much stress on Mathematics. Just all this theory will not make one

> understand what is being talked about. One needs to prepare 50 charts

> manually without help of computer and under a recognised Master, only

> then will one understand these intracasies.

>

> You are also aware how I explain every prediction through details in my

> past records anyone can check this. All is original work and nothing has

> been lifted from copy paste but what has been given, is what is actually

> experienced by me and taught to me by my masters.

>

> best wishes,

>

> Bhaskar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

A mail a day from you keeps the Doctor away.

Bhai again you made me laugh with the word "disease", normally this word puts fear in me. But not this time.

Me-centric was just to bring home the point of the efficay of the Bhava Chalit and nothing else.. I do not need to be popular. I already am by Gods Grace.

Copy paste issue we will discuss some other day now. I do not wish to create any heat. Since its a little late to join the film world now for me, I like to create mist now like those people, on these forums, and enjoy.

I was not talking about this Group when I mentioned the largest number of Quizzes. It is another group I am talking about.

Shripathi was before Varamihira, or vice versa, or Shammi Kapoor was born after Rajesh Khanna . What is this going to matter for me, I am not interested in all this, but just learning what each taught, to the best of their teachings available. To find out whether BhavaChalita was before Sripathi or not, is not my aim of Life. (Main abhi sirf thoda jawaan rah gaya hoon, why you want to waste my jawaani on searching for all this ? Please do so yourself. Let me enjoy my Life and thodi bahut bachi hui jawaani please)

Does the search for whether Bhava Chalit was before Shripathi have any ROI ? What is the ROI here, what's the return on investing in this discussion? Does this conversation add any value?'

Our purpose is to learn astrology as it was given to us, and if we begin looking for who was what, and when, and start being judgmental about them, and comment on each of them, good or bad, ten we have lost another precious day without learning.

I can predict from the Bhava Chalit Chart. You cvan predict from the Natal Chart. He can predict from the Runes, and she can predict from the crystal ball. Does not matter, as long as we can predict, but I will not disown either the runes or the Crystal ball. As long as the User is able to make use of it.

Thanks for the time, and the last five lines of your mail was very well written and so was the other parts too, but the last lines were very wise words indeed.

Love and regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji, > //You know about my predictions whether they are successful or not> > and their degree of success//> We are not speaking about your predictions - the discussion is not you centric at all - but instead about the logic of a system - i.e. Bhava chalit. Instead of being self centric - please look at the subject being discussed. > //Just all this theory will not make one understand what is being talked about.//> It is not mere theory that is happening here - is it so? Even if you think so, I don't think the majority of the group will have that opinion. Enough practical demonstrations also happening here I believe. Further there is proof that you too think so - based on the statement "the group that has done maximum number of blind chart readings done in previous year" - possibly an unintended - but praise in disguise. > //> You are also aware how I explain every prediction through details in my past records anyone can check this. //> I know that you are very good astrologer; no, better almost everyone in this group know that you are a very good astrologer. Actually we have only 2 major much active professional astrologers in this group now - Sunil ji and You - and none others. Since it is a fact everyone knows, just leave it and come back to the subject under discussion.> //nothing has been lifted from copy paste //> You have been repeatedly talking about copy-pasting for the past 2 days. What do you want to say? Please speak it out clearly. Do you want to say that I have copy pasted something from somewhere? Or is it someone else? Don't create mist like the cinema journalists - but just boldly speak-out what you want to say. If you want to point at me - ok, just go ahead on this with proper reference. Oh! Now I started worrying, is the disease coming to me as well - am I becoming self centric! Ha..Ha.. Just jocking. > Dear Bhaskar ji, We are all human beings who may go correct at times and wrong at times. Nothing can be perfect, and no system can be totally error proof. If 10 cases we take and predict even for the best astrologers there is a chance that 3-4 may go wrong (or let us use the polite word, will become some what correct only) for almost sure. We need to accept it as a ground reality and should continue learning and improving ourselves. There is not a single astrologer within this group or out side - whatever tools and techniques they might be using - who can predict accurately in all times for all cases. That is simply impossible. We have to live with the reality and accept it as is. > Now if you like using Bhava Chalita, then use it - what is wrong in it? If I don't like using it, then it is ok - there is no need I should use it. That is the practical face of it.> Now coming to historical/theoretical discussion - If Bhava chalita was in existence before Sripati; ok - just show the proof for it and the argument is over. If it was not in existance; ok - accept it. There is nothing to be emotional in such cases since we are just speaking about objective facts which usually cannot have two answers. Such things are unrelated to us and so we are all mature enough to speak about such historical and theoretical things in an objective manner I believe.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh > > , "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > > > My Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > Evidence is here to see and notice, in my form very much present on your> > Forum. You know about my predictions whether they are successful or not> > and their degree of success, these all come only through the Bhava> > Chalit and not through the Natal Chart positions.> > > > By making Bhava Chalit Chart, nothing changes. the planetary degrees> > does not change, the planet in sign does not change, the Nakshatra does> > not change, but only house results change. Which is why the BVB Bombay> > less much stress on Mathematics. Just all this theory will not make one> > understand what is being talked about. One needs to prepare 50 charts> > manually without help of computer and under a recognised Master, only> > then will one understand these intracasies.> > > > You are also aware how I explain every prediction through details in my> > past records anyone can check this. All is original work and nothing has> > been lifted from copy paste but what has been given, is what is actually> > experienced by me and taught to me by my masters.> > > > best wishes,> > > > Bhaskar.>

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

 

I have been a little hard on our Dear Sreenadhji, probably he does not

deserve this. Let me give now credit to him as I have always been a

justice minded person.

 

Sripathy was of course only after Sripathy was born and not before that.

KP was of course only after KP was born and not before that. Lalkitab

was of course only after Jishiji was born and not before that.

 

But all said and done, we do not use papyrus for writing or

communicating with symbols till the language was born, as in the ancient

times. We have no starteduseing paper, Internet and communicating with

cell, Landline, Chat, Video chat, and what not. Does anybody still use

the " Telegram " or " Telex " now???

 

So why not use the newer methods given to us in astrology too? But again

I am not saying that you use what I use. Neither must you tell me that.

Do not negate my method as not right or not coming from the right

source. Nor do you see me doing this and neither will you see me doing

so in future.

 

Since the Experts before us have devised, docovered better means in

almost all kshetras, we have all becomes used to the new inventions

which serve the same purpose, but only the way changes. Does it matter ?

 

Does it matter if one uses KP, Traditiona, Lalkitab, Naadi, or what have

you, as long as he is able to guide a native with suffering who

approaces a astrologer and is able to alleviate them, to a certain

extent, or at least provide some hope for a better time and advise the

native how to continue tilll the malefic time persists ?

 

Does it matter if I use Placidus, Sayana, Nirayana or whatever, as loing

as I am able to see the future, forecats accurately till the extent

allowed by the Great lord.

 

Does it matter of I use the Natal, Bhava chalit, navamsha or other

charts as long as I am on the mark.

 

I am sure that our Dear Sreenadhji will agree that it does not matter.

 

Does it matter that I like KNR and he does not to me ? No it does not.

Does it matter to me if he wishes to take Katrina Kaif and be dumped on

an isolated island with her? No it does not. To each his own. (I will go

in a nearby island with some other heroine to get dumped and am sure he

will not mind.) But he should not talk detrimental about the heroine I

get dumped with, or it will create a problem. That he has to care about.

Otherwise we will both end up getting hurt and wounded and bruised in

the aftermath and will not enjoy our respective dumpings. Am I not

right?

 

So lets grow as long as our trousers have grown and remain big in our

outlook and views.

 

best wishes,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> A mail a day from you keeps the Doctor away.

>

> Bhai again you made me laugh with the word " disease " , normally this

word

> puts fear in me. But not this time.

>

> Me-centric was just to bring home the point of the efficay of the

Bhava

> Chalit and nothing else.. I do not need to be popular. I already am by

> Gods Grace.

>

> Copy paste issue we will discuss some other day now. I do not wish to

> create any heat. Since its a little late to join the film world now

for

> me, I like to create mist now like those people, on these forums, and

> enjoy.

>

> I was not talking about this Group when I mentioned the largest number

> of Quizzes. It is another group I am talking about.

>

> Shripathi was before Varamihira, or vice versa, or Shammi Kapoor was

> born after Rajesh Khanna . What is this going to matter for me, I am

not

> interested in all this, but just learning what each taught, to the

best

> of their teachings available. To find out whether BhavaChalita was

> before Sripathi or not, is not my aim of Life. (Main abhi sirf thoda

> jawaan rah gaya hoon, why you want to waste my jawaani on searching

for

> all this ? Please do so yourself. Let me enjoy my Life and thodi bahut

> bachi hui jawaani please)

>

> Does the search for whether Bhava Chalit was before Shripathi have any

> ROI ? What is the ROI here, what's the return on investing in this

> discussion? Does this conversation add any value?'

>

> Our purpose is to learn astrology as it was given to us, and if we

begin

> looking for who was what, and when, and start being judgmental about

> them, and comment on each of them, good or bad, ten we have lost

another

> precious day without learning.

>

> I can predict from the Bhava Chalit Chart. You cvan predict from the

> Natal Chart. He can predict from the Runes, and she can predict from

the

> crystal ball. Does not matter, as long as we can predict, but I will

not

> disown either the runes or the Crystal ball. As long as the User is

able

> to make use of it.

>

> Thanks for the time, and the last five lines of your mail was very

well

> written and so was the other parts too, but the last lines were very

> wise words indeed.

>

> Love and regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

>

, " sreesog " sreesog@

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > //You know about my predictions whether they are successful or not

> > > and their degree of success//

> > We are not speaking about your predictions - the discussion is not

you

> centric at all - but instead about the logic of a system - i.e. Bhava

> chalit. Instead of being self centric - please look at the subject

being

> discussed.

> > //Just all this theory will not make one understand what is being

> talked about.//

> > It is not mere theory that is happening here - is it so? Even if you

> think so, I don't think the majority of the group will have that

> opinion. Enough practical demonstrations also happening here I

believe.

> Further there is proof that you too think so - based on the statement

> " the group that has done maximum number of blind chart readings done

in

> previous year " - possibly an unintended - but praise in disguise.

> > //> You are also aware how I explain every prediction through

details

> in my past records anyone can check this. //

> > I know that you are very good astrologer; no, better almost everyone

> in this group know that you are a very good astrologer. Actually we

have

> only 2 major much active professional astrologers in this group now -

> Sunil ji and You - and none others. Since it is a fact everyone knows,

> just leave it and come back to the subject under discussion.

> > //nothing has been lifted from copy paste //

> > You have been repeatedly talking about copy-pasting for the past 2

> days. What do you want to say? Please speak it out clearly. Do you

want

> to say that I have copy pasted something from somewhere? Or is it

> someone else? Don't create mist like the cinema journalists - but just

> boldly speak-out what you want to say. If you want to point at me -

> ok, just go ahead on this with proper reference. Oh! Now I started

> worrying, is the disease coming to me as well - am I becoming self

> centric! Ha..Ha.. Just jocking.

> > Dear Bhaskar ji, We are all human beings who may go correct at times

> and wrong at times. Nothing can be perfect, and no system can be

totally

> error proof. If 10 cases we take and predict even for the best

> astrologers there is a chance that 3-4 may go wrong (or let us use the

> polite word, will become some what correct only) for almost sure. We

> need to accept it as a ground reality and should continue learning and

> improving ourselves. There is not a single astrologer within this

group

> or out side - whatever tools and techniques they might be using - who

> can predict accurately in all times for all cases. That is simply

> impossible. We have to live with the reality and accept it as is.

> > Now if you like using Bhava Chalita, then use it - what is wrong in

> it? If I don't like using it, then it is ok - there is no need I

should

> use it. That is the practical face of it.

> > Now coming to historical/theoretical discussion - If Bhava chalita

was

> in existence before Sripati; ok - just show the proof for it and the

> argument is over. If it was not in existance; ok - accept it. There is

> nothing to be emotional in such cases since we are just speaking about

> objective facts which usually cannot have two answers. Such things are

> unrelated to us and so we are all mature enough to speak about such

> historical and theoretical things in an objective manner I believe.

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > My Dear Sreenadh ji,

> > >

> > > Evidence is here to see and notice, in my form very much present

on

> your

> > > Forum. You know about my predictions whether they are successful

or

> not

> > > and their degree of success, these all come only through the Bhava

> > > Chalit and not through the Natal Chart positions.

> > >

> > > By making Bhava Chalit Chart, nothing changes. the planetary

degrees

> > > does not change, the planet in sign does not change, the Nakshatra

> does

> > > not change, but only house results change. Which is why the BVB

> Bombay

> > > less much stress on Mathematics. Just all this theory will not

make

> one

> > > understand what is being talked about. One needs to prepare 50

> charts

> > > manually without help of computer and under a recognised Master,

> only

> > > then will one understand these intracasies.

> > >

> > > You are also aware how I explain every prediction through details

in

> my

> > > past records anyone can check this. All is original work and

nothing

> has

> > > been lifted from copy paste but what has been given, is what is

> actually

> > > experienced by me and taught to me by my masters.

> > >

> > > best wishes,

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh-ji,

 

I have understood what are you trying to tell and I also

support the same idea to a very great extent.

 

My point was, other house erection can be used as a

Supplementary tool...not as a stand-alone mode. People

who have high level of knowledges (grounding) in sign=rasi

system will be capable of utilizing other erection systems

fruitfully - not the other way around.

 

And regarding your other points, divisions of Bhava etc..,

I am not qualified to comment. But my impression is,

When we do not the understand the limitations of

any system, that is likely.

 

regards

 

Chakraborty

 

 

On Behalf Of sreesogWednesday, October 21, 2009 3:14 PM Subject: Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

Dear Chakraborty ji, I could see your point. But there is a clear reason for my differing. //My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sortswhereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.//It is not that simple. Just look at this -* The sages provided a clear framework of Signs. Then they said - The results originate based on "Anyonya samyoga vikalpanabhir" (from Spujidwaja hora) meaning, the "The results originate/understood based on the MUTUAL MIXING of the nature of various signs". This mutual mixing is implemented/visualized based on -* A sign is divided into 2 Horas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.* A sign is divided into 3 Drekkanas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.* A sign is divided into 4 Chaturthamsas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.* A sign is divided into 5 Panchamamsas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.and so on. This is the very process of "mutual mixing of nature of various signs". Now when someone mounts a Bhava Chalita (Moving House system) on top of this basic/fundamental framework you see. Then -* They are CHANGING THE BOUNDARIES of houses (which was earlier in tune with the signs and was helping much in deriving results). Thus they are deriving a new Sign system and calling it Bhava Chakra! (If you don't believe me read the next point) * Since the new sign system named Bhava Chakra is now in place we need to divide the Houses in to amsas, and thus concepts like Bhavottama comes in!!! (Certainly this is something unimagined by the sages! They divided the signs in to houses, and now people are creating a new sign system with the name Bhava Chakra and dividing them in Amsas!) * Ok. With the new sign system on top of the original signs, what happened to those rulerships and Naksahtra divisions? Huh, they are lying here and there cut into pieces - half in one house and remaining in another! Then what will happen to the original logics used to derive results based on them? Ha..Ha.. The answer is, for that you sill have to go back to the original Sign/nakshatra system! Then why this fuss in the fist place at all? We ask - Do you have any ancient quotes guiding you on 'how to derive results based on this neo-houses and new-bhavamsas and neo-bhavottams? The answer is a mouth opening- NO! The next question would be have derived any neo-system based on which such results can be arrived at? a mouth opening- NO! And we are forced to say - BULLSHIT!!! Hope you have understood my perspective and the flow of thought. And this is the real story behind! They have distorted the original system and does not have a proper replacement; a half baby without legs! You said - //other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in> India).//May be one point needs to be clarified here - When I said -//> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be (and should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.//I never meant to say or point that the Traditional techniques are not useful in pinpointing the results! That was just a statement about the new methods some of which are in tune with the tradition and some not - and NOT about the traditional system itself! The traditional system is much better and useful in pinpointing the events and deriving the nature of events - compared to new born system that boast of decimal accuracy without evidence. :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh-ji,> > My take is slightly different.> > When we know the limitation of a tool clearly, it can be utilized> as a special supplement.> > Probably some of the tools rather gives a 'thumb rule', borne out> of observations by people who may have / have not understood> the logic or decided not to tell the logic to common man.> > I will give a practical example from my own field.> > In mills / sites, there is always a chance of mixing of different material> like alloy steel plates and ordinary steel plates getting mixed.> > The sorting is carried out by a Sorter machine. It just checks a factor> (magnetic permeability) and sorts them out. This is a very crude> (because it can not check slight variations as the magnetic> permeability is dependent on so many things) but very effective> system. But when you need to know the exact material, you> go for advanced method of checking each of alloying element.> > My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts> whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.> > It is like -- one is getting exact co-ordinates for a place from a> system and other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in> India). The advantage is ..... when doing a complex calculation> with many steps, it helps if we know the rough 'thumb rule'> answer. That way, cross-check can be done for any error> in putting decimal points.> > Anyway, let us agree to dis-agree on this issue.> > regards> > Chakraborty> > > > ________________________________> sreesog [sreesog]> Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:04 PM> > Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.> > > > Dear Chakraborty ji,> //> The sign=house is simpler and probably provides all the information that is required. The other systems highlights some particular aspects, probably at the cost of blurring of details at some other locations.//> Well said! Yes, certainly the other systems highlights some particular aspects, but CERTAINLY they BLUR OF DETAILS AT SOME OTHER LOCATIONS. This is the very reason for rejecting these other methods as authentic because they BLUR even the fundamentals/foundations! For example, as per Yavana Jataka "every every sign and degree of a sign has got different nature and the whole of astrological results is a result of the mixing of the nature of various signs." When we choose a house system (other than sign as house) all these details and foundations gets blured and the zodiac becomes too much mathamatical losing all those numerous RESULTS (logical result derivation possibilities and basic approach), and become mere bunch of numbers with only a handful of 'sensitive points' to show off! Any intelligent seeker of astrological wisdom can readily see this and when one find that 'the bhava chalita BLURS the foundations/fundamentals' he naturally rejects its and resorts to the use traditional, consistent system (i.e. system consistent with the foundations/fundamentals) and start speaking against the new/modern technique of Bhava chalit (moving houses) even though such TECHNIQUES do provide some useful clues at times.> In short -> * A TECHNIQUE (a small tool) that is NOT in tune with the whole would be (and should be) rejected even if it provides useful results at times - because it contaminates the original system.> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be (and should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.> //> May be the learned among the forum may come forward & > > discuss the advantages & disadvantages of other systems, provided> > the Moderators agree.//> Yes, the experts in such techniques (small but in a way useful at times tools) are welcome to come forward and demonstrate the same. Even though not part of the traditional and consistent whole these techniques/tools also are also helpful at times. The point -> * If treating sign as house is a GENERAL RULE that is applicable everywhere.> * Creating a house system (any you choose) and finding some sensitive points is a SPECIAL RULE that can be useful in some SPECIAL CASES. (They CANNOT be neither generally applicable or useful; nor considered to be in tune with the whole system)> Love and regards,> SreenadhThis Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji,

//> My point was, other house erection can be used as a

> Supplementary tool...not as a stand-alone mode. People

> who have high level of knowledges (grounding) in sign=rasi

> system will be capable of utilizing other erection systems

> fruitfully - not the other way around.//

Yes, this argument I can and support to an extend. But you will not see

possibly not even a single person among the Bhava Chalita supporters who uses

the neo-Bhava system in this way - I bet! So what will you do? As you mentioned,

there can be a logical perspective that is somewhat useful, but there is not

even a single person who follows it. The only two groups we have is - One, the

traditionalists who consider Rasi=Bhava; and second, the Bhava Chalita

supporters who does not understand the foundations and the value of the

perspective you mentioned! And in this scenario, instead of rejecting the Bhava

Chalita system (even though it can be made useful in a way), if we start

supporting its use, ultimately we are helping the distortion and not catalyzing

the purification - hope you see the point I am trying to make. We have no choice

- but to reject Bhava chalita in this situation - from traditional puritans

perspective! And that is what I do.

Note: I know that you will understand this mail, even if none other in this

group does. Therefore this mail is just for you only and I don't encourage

others - most of them won't be able to understand this mail at all - replying to

this mail.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh-ji,

>

> I have understood what are you trying to tell and I also

> support the same idea to a very great extent.

>

> My point was, other house erection can be used as a

> Supplementary tool...not as a stand-alone mode. People

> who have high level of knowledges (grounding) in sign=rasi

> system will be capable of utilizing other erection systems

> fruitfully - not the other way around.

>

> And regarding your other points, divisions of Bhava etc..,

> I am not qualified to comment. But my impression is,

> When we do not the understand the limitations of

> any system, that is likely.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

> ________________________________

>

On Behalf Of sreesog

> Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:14 PM

>

> Re: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to

erect.

>

>

>

> Dear Chakraborty ji,

> I could see your point. But there is a clear reason for my differing.

> //My understanding is different methods gives a pointer and sorts

> whereas sign=rasi system gives detailed composition.//

> It is not that simple. Just look at this -

> * The sages provided a clear framework of Signs. Then they said - The results

originate based on " Anyonya samyoga vikalpanabhir " (from Spujidwaja hora)

meaning, the " The results originate/understood based on the MUTUAL MIXING of the

nature of various signs " . This mutual mixing is implemented/visualized based on

-

> * A sign is divided into 2 Horas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

> * A sign is divided into 3 Drekkanas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

> * A sign is divided into 4 Chaturthamsas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

> * A sign is divided into 5 Panchamamsas and sign/planet rulership ascribed.

> and so on. This is the very process of " mutual mixing of nature of various

signs " .

> Now when someone mounts a Bhava Chalita (Moving House system) on top of this

basic/fundamental framework you see. Then -

> * They are CHANGING THE BOUNDARIES of houses (which was earlier in tune with

the signs and was helping much in deriving results). Thus they are deriving a

new Sign system and calling it Bhava Chakra! (If you don't believe me read the

next point)

> * Since the new sign system named Bhava Chakra is now in place we need to

divide the Houses in to amsas, and thus concepts like Bhavottama comes in!!!

(Certainly this is something unimagined by the sages! They divided the signs in

to houses, and now people are creating a new sign system with the name Bhava

Chakra and dividing them in Amsas!)

> * Ok. With the new sign system on top of the original signs, what happened to

those rulerships and Naksahtra divisions? Huh, they are lying here and there cut

into pieces - half in one house and remaining in another! Then what will happen

to the original logics used to derive results based on them? Ha..Ha.. The answer

is, for that you sill have to go back to the original Sign/nakshatra system!

Then why this fuss in the fist place at all? We ask - Do you have any ancient

quotes guiding you on 'how to derive results based on this neo-houses and

new-bhavamsas and neo-bhavottams? The answer is a mouth opening- NO! The next

question would be have derived any neo-system based on which such results can be

arrived at? a mouth opening- NO! And we are forced to say - BULLSHIT!!!

> Hope you have understood my perspective and the flow of thought. And this is

the real story behind! They have distorted the original system and does not have

a proper replacement; a half baby without legs!

> You said - //other is giving rough estimation (like Delhi is in

> > India).//

> May be one point needs to be clarified here - When I said -

> //> * A SYSTEM (a broad picture) that is in IN TUNE with the whole would be

(and should be) accepted even if it provides only general guidance and no

specific pinpointed numbers; since it enhances the original system.//

> I never meant to say or point that the Traditional techniques are not useful

in pinpointing the results! That was just a statement about the new methods some

of which are in tune with the tradition and some not - and NOT about the

traditional system itself! The traditional system is much better and useful in

pinpointing the events and deriving the nature of events - compared to new born

system that boast of decimal accuracy without evidence.

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Vijay Goyal ji,In house division , many methods are invented andput to practice.THE main reason is that signs are located on the plane of Ecliptic andhouses are located on the plane of Equator.These planes are inclinedwith each other at a angle of 23deg26'17".Obviously, if we try to bring themon same plane , there will be distortion besides other reasons as mid orcaspal point.However , if we follow synthesis of nativity based on VARGA CHARTs ,it seems that only option is most appropriate as per teachings of BPHS:

The

predictive astrology is based on three main pillars, namely,

1.

Planets

2.

Signs

3.

Houses

Maharishi

Parasara has precisely explained this concept to his disciple Maitraye in

chapter 3, slokas 4, 5 and 6 of BPHS:

“Those,

celestial bodies are called the planets (Grahas) that move through the

Nakshatras (or asterisms) along the Zodiac (Bhachakra). The Zodiac comprises of

27 asterisms from Aswin to Revati and also devided in 12 equal parts known as

signs (Rashis) from Aries to Pisces. The

Zodiac sign which contains the rising (ascending) point at the time of Birth is called Lagna (ascendant)”. Based on

the ascendant and the planets joining and separating from each other, the

native’s good and bad fortune is deducted”.

Parasara has given the concept of

Bhavas (houses) along with 12 signs in the above narration. This is called the

compartmental system of houses. In this, system the whole sign in

which the degree of ascendant falls is considered the first house and

subsequent sign as 2nd house and so on. The longitude of the

ascending point becomes the most sensitive points of the ascendant i.e.1st

house, and the sensitive points of

other house will be 30° apart. The sensitive

point of 10th house will fall

in 10th sign from ascending sign and will have the same longitude as that of the ascending point in

Lagna. In this system M.C. is not considered as the Mid-point or cusp of 10th house. M.C. is however

given prime-importance due to it and is widely used for many other important

purposes.

 

The above mentioned

Hindu (Vedic) Method, advocated by Sage Parasara, seems to be more rational and

worthy of being followed in all astrological calculations particularly in the

casting of a nativity. This method has universal applicability. In this system

either the longitudinal duration or mid-point / cuspal degree of houses does

not get distorted at higher latitudes.

Parasara

continued to narrate the description of the planets, signs, various Kinds of

ascendants, up-Grahas and importance of Deeptamsa of 15° on either side of sensitive-point of ascendant and

other houses etc. (Deeptamsa means an effective Zone of 15° on either side of the sensitive-point of ascendant ,or

sensitive points of other houses).

After

listening to the above narration, Maitreya enquired from Sage Parasara:

 

 

 

These Slokas are of great the

significance and lay down the basis of Parasari Astrology:

In this scheame, the nativity (sign

chart) also acts as one of the Bhava chart.

 

The other 15 kinds of Bhava Vargas

(divisional charts) are for different purposes

and these can be obtained by dividing signs (Rashis) into components and then

arranging these components in a specified harmonic order.

The

division of any Varga chart that contains ascending degree will act first Bhava

of that varga. Each Varga chart will have 12 Bhavas (with the exception in

Hora-Varga chart)

 

The each house of a varga will be

identified by a Zodiac sign and will be called the abode of the sign lord.

 

BPHS

gives clear instruction for construction of each Varga. In this manner each

sign is divided in 150 unequal parts (the arc 8of largest part is 30’ and

smallest is 1’40”) and each part will have specific characteristics, which

could be ascertained by constructing separate divisional charts. (This also

laid down the foundation of Nadi Astrology).

 

 

RegardsG. K. Goel

From: goyalvjDate: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:36:54 +0000 Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

 

 

 

 

Dear Bhaskerji and all,There are many methods to erect the bhava chalit chart.1) Each rasi in a house (Parashari)This is what Sreenadhji, Sanjayji Rath, my jyotish other direct gurus and as per my knowledge at the time of my teaching K N Raoji all were considering, majorly.I am following this method and Manojji Chandran is following the same.2) Equal House (30 degree each)3) Porphyry house (Sri Pathi method)4) Placidus House (KP uses it, westerner follow this )There are more system which can be computed in Jhora likeKoch House, Campanus house, Axial rotation system houses, Regiomontanus house, Polich House, Alcabitus house.Secondly which reference point we must take to start a house :I) Ascendent at the start of first house.II) Ascendent at the middle of first house.As far as my knowledge KP system uses two thing.Placidus house and ascendent at the start of first house.Please confirm it for the correctness.Many other uses Equal method with Ascendent at the middle of first house.Can we make some consensus conclusion which is the best one ?Merits and Demerits of each system (with reasoning if possible) ?Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur. , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > No, let there be a change in this Quiz I am proposing. You predict with> the Natal Chart only, and I will predict with the Bhava Chalit. So that> gives you an edge over me does it not ?> > Bhaskar.> > > , "Bhaskar"> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> >> > Ancient people knew how to predict .> >> > How many of us bragging about knowledge of Ancient astrology, bringing> > in long articles of Copy paste lifted from other websites, and trying> to> > exhibit non-existent knowledge, know how to predict.> >> > Instead of discussing/arguing with me or using your powers of> moderation> > over me, or reprimanding as being the caretakers of this Group, I> > suggest the following which would be more honourable for all of you -> >> > 1) Take some birth data of prominent figures who are alive in india.> >> > 2) Let there be consensus of these birth particulars from the> > participants.> >> > 3) Predict for the next year ( Next 12 months) what would happen to> them> > and when.> >> > 4) No generalisations please but actual predictions.> >> > 5) use any technique you think is ancient or Modern, indian or> Western,> > does not matter.> >> > I am ready to do this. How many else are ?> >> > Bhaskar.> >>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Respected Goel Saheb,

 

Thankyou for such a brilliant explanation. I am also following the same.

 

Thankyou,

Regards,

Vijay Goel

Jaipur.

 

 

, gopal krishna goel

<g.k.goel wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Vijay Goyal ji,

> In house division , many methods are invented and

> put to practice.

> THE main reason is that signs are located on the plane of Ecliptic and

> houses are located on the plane of Equator.These planes are inclined

> with each other at a angle of 23deg26'17 " .Obviously, if we try to bring them

> on same plane , there will be distortion besides other reasons as mid or

> caspal point.

> However , if we follow synthesis of nativity based on VARGA CHARTs ,it

> seems that only option is most appropriate as per teachings of BPHS:

>

>

>

>

>

> The

> predictive astrology is based on three main pillars, namely,

>

> 1.

> Planets

>

> 2.

> Signs

>

> 3.

> Houses

>

> Maharishi

> Parasara has precisely explained this concept to his disciple Maitraye in

> chapter 3, slokas 4, 5 and 6 of BPHS:

>

> " Those,

> celestial bodies are called the planets (Grahas) that move through the

> Nakshatras (or asterisms) along the Zodiac (Bhachakra). The Zodiac comprises

of

> 27 asterisms from Aswin to Revati and also devided in 12 equal parts known as

> signs (Rashis) from Aries to Pisces. The

> Zodiac sign which contains the rising (ascending) point at the time of Birth

is called Lagna (ascendant) " . Based on

> the ascendant and the planets joining and separating from each other, the

> native's good and bad fortune is deducted " .

>

> Parasara has given the concept of

> Bhavas (houses) along with 12 signs in the above narration. This is called the

> compartmental system of houses. In this, system the whole sign in

> which the degree of ascendant falls is considered the first house and

> subsequent sign as 2nd house and so on. The longitude of the

> ascending point becomes the most sensitive points of the ascendant i.e.1st

> house, and the sensitive points of

> other house will be 30° apart. The sensitive

> point of 10th house will fall

> in 10th sign from ascending sign and will have the same longitude as that of

the ascending point in

> Lagna. In this system M.C. is not considered as the Mid-point or cusp of 10th

house. M.C. is however

> given prime-importance due to it and is widely used for many other important

> purposes.

>

>

>

> The above mentioned

> Hindu (Vedic) Method, advocated by Sage Parasara, seems to be more rational

and

> worthy of being followed in all astrological calculations particularly in the

> casting of a nativity. This method has universal applicability. In this system

> either the longitudinal duration or mid-point / cuspal degree of houses does

> not get distorted at higher latitudes.

>

> Parasara

> continued to narrate the description of the planets, signs, various Kinds of

> ascendants, up-Grahas and importance of Deeptamsa of 15° on either side of

sensitive-point of ascendant and

> other houses etc. (Deeptamsa means an effective Zone of 15° on either side of

the sensitive-point of ascendant ,or

> sensitive points of other houses).

>

> After

> listening to the above narration, Maitreya enquired from Sage Parasara:

>

>

>

These Slokas are of great the

> significance and lay down the basis of Parasari Astrology:

>

> In this scheame, the nativity (sign

> chart) also acts as one of the Bhava chart.

>

>

>

> The other 15 kinds of Bhava Vargas

> (divisional charts) are for different purposes

> and these can be obtained by dividing signs (Rashis) into components and then

> arranging these components in a specified harmonic order.

>

> The

> division of any Varga chart that contains ascending degree will act first

Bhava

> of that varga. Each Varga chart will have 12 Bhavas (with the exception in

> Hora-Varga chart)

>

>

>

> The each house of a varga will be

> identified by a Zodiac sign and will be called the abode of the sign lord.

>

>

>

> BPHS

> gives clear instruction for construction of each Varga. In this manner each

> sign is divided in 150 unequal parts (the arc 8of largest part is 30' and

> smallest is 1'40 " ) and each part will have specific characteristics, which

> could be ascertained by constructing separate divisional charts. (This also

> laid down the foundation of Nadi Astrology).

Regards

>

> G. K. Goel

>

>

>

>

>

>

> goyalvj

> Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:36:54 +0000

> Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

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Dear Bhaskerji and all,There are many methods to erect the bhava chalit

chart.1) Each rasi in a house (Parashari)This is what Sreenadhji, Sanjayji Rath,

my jyotish other direct gurus and as per my knowledge at the time of my teaching

K N Raoji all were considering, majorly.I am following this method and Manojji

Chandran is following the same.2) Equal House (30 degree each)3) Porphyry house

(Sri Pathi method)4) Placidus House (KP uses it, westerner follow this )There

are more system which can be computed in Jhora likeKoch House, Campanus house,

Axial rotation system houses, Regiomontanus house, Polich House, Alcabitus

house.Secondly which reference point we must take to start a house :I) Ascendent

at the start of first house.II) Ascendent at the middle of first house.As far as

my knowledge KP system uses two thing.Placidus house and ascendent at the start

of first house.Please confirm it for the correctness.Many other uses Equal

method with Ascendent at the middle of first house.Can we make some consensus

conclusion which is the best one ?Merits and Demerits of each system (with

reasoning if possible) ?Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

wrote:

> >

> >

> > No, let there be a change in this Quiz I am proposing. You predict with

> > the Natal Chart only, and I will predict with the Bhava Chalit. So that

> > gives you an edge over me does it not ?

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Ancient people knew how to predict .

> > >

> > > How many of us bragging about knowledge of Ancient astrology, bringing

> > > in long articles of Copy paste lifted from other websites, and trying

> > to

> > > exhibit non-existent knowledge, know how to predict.

> > >

> > > Instead of discussing/arguing with me or using your powers of

> > moderation

> > > over me, or reprimanding as being the caretakers of this Group, I

> > > suggest the following which would be more honourable for all of you -

> > >

> > > 1) Take some birth data of prominent figures who are alive in india.

> > >

> > > 2) Let there be consensus of these birth particulars from the

> > > participants.

> > >

> > > 3) Predict for the next year ( Next 12 months) what would happen to

> > them

> > > and when.

> > >

> > > 4) No generalisations please but actual predictions.

> > >

> > > 5) use any technique you think is ancient or Modern, indian or

> > Western,

> > > does not matter.

> > >

> > > I am ready to do this. How many else are ?

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> >

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[Guest guest]

Deat Bhaskarji,this is completely true !I have chart of a state home minister which i got only from him.22/10/196405:20mumbaithis is amazing chart for study debilitated plantes and making him very prominent minister.regards,vijay purohit. --- On Thu, 5/11/09, gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel wrote:gopal krishna goel <g.k.goelRE: Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect. Date: Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 1:55 PM

 

 

 

Dear Vijay Goyal ji,In house division , many methods are invented andput to practice.THE main reason is that signs are located on the plane of Ecliptic andhouses are located on the plane of Equator.These planes are inclinedwith each other at a angle of 23deg26'17". Obviously, if we try to bring themon same plane , there will be distortion besides other reasons as mid orcaspal point.However , if we follow synthesis of nativity based on VARGA CHARTs ,it seems that only option is most appropriate as per teachings of BPHS:

The

predictive astrology is based on three main pillars, namely, 1.

Planets 2.

Signs 3.

Houses Maharishi

Parasara has precisely explained this concept to his disciple Maitraye in

chapter 3, slokas 4, 5 and 6 of BPHS: “Those,

celestial bodies are called the planets (Grahas) that move through the

Nakshatras (or asterisms) along the Zodiac (Bhachakra). The Zodiac comprises of

27 asterisms from Aswin to Revati and also devided in 12 equal parts known as

signs (Rashis) from Aries to Pisces. The

Zodiac sign which contains the rising (ascending) point at the time of Birth is called Lagna (ascendant)â€. Based on

the ascendant and the planets joining and separating from each other, the

native’s good and bad fortune is deductedâ€. Parasara has given the concept of

Bhavas (houses) along with 12 signs in the above narration. This is called the

compartmental system of houses. In this, system the whole sign in

which the degree of ascendant falls is considered the first house and

subsequent sign as 2nd house and so on. The longitude of the

ascending point becomes the most sensitive points of the ascendant i.e.1st

house, and the sensitive points of

other house will be 30° apart. The sensitive

point of 10th house will fall

in 10th sign from ascending sign and will have the same longitude as that of the ascending point in

Lagna. In this system M.C. is not considered as the Mid-point or cusp of 10th house. M.C. is however

given prime-importance due to it and is widely used for many other important

purposes. The above mentioned

Hindu (Vedic) Method, advocated by Sage Parasara, seems to be more rational and

worthy of being followed in all astrological calculations particularly in the

casting of a nativity. This method has universal applicability. In this system

either the longitudinal duration or mid-point / cuspal degree of houses does

not get distorted at higher latitudes. Parasara

continued to narrate the description of the planets, signs, various Kinds of

ascendants, up-Grahas and importance of Deeptamsa of 15° on either side of sensitive-point of ascendant and

other houses etc. (Deeptamsa means an effective Zone of 15° on either side of the sensitive-point of ascendant ,or

sensitive points of other houses). After

listening to the above narration, Maitreya enquired from Sage Parasara:

 

 

 

These Slokas are of great the

significance and lay down the basis of Parasari Astrology: In this scheame, the nativity (sign

chart) also acts as one of the Bhava chart. The other 15 kinds of Bhava Vargas

(divisional charts) are for different purposes

and these can be obtained by dividing signs (Rashis) into components and then

arranging these components in a specified harmonic order. The

division of any Varga chart that contains ascending degree will act first Bhava

of that varga. Each Varga chart will have 12 Bhavas (with the exception in

Hora-Varga chart) The each house of a varga will be

identified by a Zodiac sign and will be called the abode of the sign lord. BPHS

gives clear instruction for construction of each Varga. In this manner each

sign is divided in 150 unequal parts (the arc 8of largest part is 30’ and

smallest is 1’40â€) and each part will have specific characteristics, which

could be ascertained by constructing separate divisional charts. (This also

laid down the foundation of Nadi Astrology).

RegardsG. K. Goel

ancient_indian_ astrologygoyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) comWed, 21 Oct 2009 04:36:54 +0000[ancient_indian_ astrology] Bhava Chalit chart : Many ways to erect.

 

 

 

 

Dear Bhaskerji and all,There are many methods to erect the bhava chalit chart.1) Each rasi in a house (Parashari)This is what Sreenadhji, Sanjayji Rath, my jyotish other direct gurus and as per my knowledge at the time of my teaching K N Raoji all were considering, majorly.I am following this method and Manojji Chandran is following the same.2) Equal House (30 degree each)3) Porphyry house (Sri Pathi method)4) Placidus House (KP uses it, westerner follow this )There are more system which can be computed in Jhora likeKoch House, Campanus house, Axial rotation system houses, Regiomontanus house, Polich House, Alcabitus house.Secondly which reference point we must take to start a house :I) Ascendent at the start of first house.II) Ascendent at the middle of first house.As far as my knowledge KP system uses two thing.Placidus house and ascendent at the start of first house.Please confirm it for the correctness.Many other uses Equal method with Ascendent at the middle of first house.Can we make some consensus conclusion which is the best one ?Merits and Demerits of each system (with reasoning if possible) ?Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> > No, let there be a change in this Quiz I am proposing. You predict with> the Natal Chart only, and I will predict with the Bhava Chalit. So that> gives you an edge over me does it not ?> > Bhaskar.> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar"> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> >> > Ancient people knew how to predict .> >> > How many of us bragging about knowledge of Ancient astrology, bringing> > in long articles of Copy paste lifted from other

websites, and trying> to> > exhibit non-existent knowledge, know how to predict.> >> > Instead of discussing/arguing with me or using your powers of> moderation> > over me, or reprimanding as being the caretakers of this Group, I> > suggest the following which would be more honourable for all of you -> >> > 1) Take some birth data of prominent figures who are alive in india.> >> > 2) Let there be consensus of these birth particulars from the> > participants.> >> > 3) Predict for the next year ( Next 12 months) what would happen to> them> > and when.> >> > 4) No generalisations please but actual predictions.> >> > 5) use any technique you think is ancient or Modern, indian or> Western,> > does not matter.> >> > I am ready to do

this. How many else are ?> >> > Bhaskar.> >>

 

 

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