Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Yes, Sreenadhji - I am aware of how the " followers " are to be feared 1000 times more than the " founder " . I see Krishna in Christ.My particular favorite is the Gospel according to Thomas - if you read it, you will find Christ saying this " Follow this, for this is my YOGA " . Yes, that is not a translation - he DOES use the word yoga, in the sense of the sanskrit yoga, when he was speaking in Hebrew. Hows that for a cultural exchange??!! Christ's views are laudable and follow-worthy.............what happened with the selection of 66 books around 300 AD was the first step towards systematic genocides of millions upon millions of human beings (only we 'christians' are 'chosen', rest all should die), something Paul would have loved and Christ would have abhorred. hari smaraNs,prANadAsaOn Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:18 AM, sreesog <sreesog wrote: Dear prANadAsa ji, //just trying to separate the vedanta from pseudoanta here.// It is not even pseudoanta but only pseudo-Christianity or Poulism ascribed to Jesus. It is not even Christianity. Jesus was an enlightened being who followed some kind of Tantric cult; the modern Christians (followers of Poul) not only crucified Jesus but also the philosophy he taught! They had to kill the whole tribe to which Jesus belonged to and also rewrite most of his teachings to implement this. How sad! They were and still remain enemy to their own god and god's son! Yes, true for them - Sinners they are! How can they escape from it except parroting that they are not! I like the teachings of Jesus as reflected in Nag Hammadi gospels such as Gospel of Thomas, Philip, Mery, Judas, Gospel of Peace etc. Ofcouse the Gospel of Mathew as given in modern bible is also good. But the modern Christians turned the teachings of Jesus upside down and turned his great philosophy into rubbish, and turned humans into animals - sheep! And now this cattle herd (!) of non-brainy animals (!) need a shepperd and jackal priest with sheep cloth comes forward and say - I a representative (!) of the real shepperd! Poor jackal and the poor cattle herd; true spirituality is not for this animal herd; but for the humans! Ofcourse Jesus was a truly spiritual and enlightened human being and alas that Paul and king constantine were not! Note: This message is not in anyway against Jesus - an enlightened being I respect - and not against the true followers of the philosophy he taught. Love and regards, Sreenadh , s s <freemorons wrote: > > " lord sacrifices himself for your sins " is classic Christianity and is > fundamentally flawed in it's logic. > > Karma of one cannot be transferred to another - it can be postponed or > speeded up or forgiven (paramAtma or the offended), NOT transferred. > Daughter of a thief cannot be hanged for the sins of the father - that is > just illogical. Only the thief must be punished, or the judge can pardon > him, or the person robbed can forgive the thief. The example of father > paying is also incorrect - he doesn't HAVE to pay, and if he chooses to, > paramatma has infinite resources, so where is this " sacrifice " part??? to > sacrifice, we must lose something. Also, what sort of paramatma is this if > he has to suffer... > > While there are some elements of truth in Suryaji's email, there are serious > problems as well...just trying to separate the vedanta from pseudoanta here. > > hari smaraNs, > prANadAsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 When we have studied the original texts of the founders, and have understood what s/he was originally trying to say, and when we compare that to what the Vatican says today and what the vast majority of the followers are doing today, it is not wrong for us to express our angst. To call deviant behavior deviant is not disrespectful, but I agree that there may be better ways of expressing it.For example, a professor from the US (head of the sanskrit department in one of the top universities in the world) visited Udupi a decade ago, and he gave the entire speech in Sanskrit. The thousands of indians who had gathered there (it was a big festival in January and literally lakhs of people were there ), had to understand this after another scholar had to translate it back from Sanskrit to the local language Kannada. Not one of them was able to follow it completely, even some of the sanskrit scholars there. One of the students also had the audacity to ask why the professor gave the speech in Sanskrit a " dead " language - the professor laughed and replied - " Sanskrit is not a dead language, you people are dead to Sanskrit, that is all. There will come a time when you will lose your own culture and language in your fascination with English. When your future generations become desparate for their roots, do not worry. Come to us, and we will teach you your language " . This was extremely hurtful to our ego back then and we were enraged at the disrespect, but it was 100% true. The people who are born into a culture distort it, abuse it or neglect it. Often times, it takes an outsider to call them out and remind them what they truly were before. I live in the US, and there is no sadder display of " christianity " in the world than here- where they hate everyone, including themselves, and pretend they follow the one who preached love for everything. There is so much virulent hate that I can almost feel it physically, and this saddens me....so I did not mind Sreenadhji's post. Sorry for the harsh criticism, but it is what it is. Sometimes the alarm has to ring very loudly and rudely, to wake people up from tamasic sleep.hari smaraNs,prANadAsa. On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote: Dear Sreenadhi Ji, Are you not making the mistake of making a blanket statement about Christians? After all we are not Christians and we don't live as Christians. Also Christianity also has various flavours and subtelties as Hindus have. Being Hindus I feel we have a right to be fiercely ciritical of our own religion but may be we should show more restraint in criticizing others. Just my honest opinion. Regards, -Manoj sreesog <sreesog Wed, October 28, 2009 4:18:21 AM Re: Christian Karma! Dear prANadAsa ji,//just trying to separate the vedanta from pseudoanta here.//It is not even pseudoanta but only pseudo-Christianity or Poulism ascribed to Jesus. It is not even Christianity. Jesus was an enlightened being who followed some kind of Tantric cult; the modern Christians (followers of Poul) not only crucified Jesus but also the philosophy he taught! They had to kill the whole tribe to which Jesus belonged to and also rewrite most of his teachings to implement this. How sad! They were and still remain enemy to their own god and god's son! Yes, true for them - Sinners they are! How can they escape from it except parroting that they are not! I like the teachings of Jesus as reflected in Nag Hammadi gospels such as Gospel of Thomas, Philip, Mery, Judas, Gospel of Peace etc. Ofcouse the Gospel of Mathew as given in modern bible is also good. But the modern Christians turned the teachings of Jesus upside down and turned his great philosophy into rubbish, and turned humans into animals - sheep! And now this cattle herd (!) of non-brainy animals (!) need a shepperd and jackal priest with sheep cloth comes forward and say - I a representative (!) of the real shepperd! Poor jackal and the poor cattle herd; true spirituality is not for this animal herd; but for the humans! Ofcourse Jesus was a truly spiritual and enlightened human being and alas that Paul and king constantine were not! Note: This message is not in anyway against Jesus - an enlightened being I respect - and not against the true followers of the philosophy he taught. Love and regards,Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, s s <freemorons@ ...> wrote: >> " lord sacrifices himself for your sins " is classic Christianity and is> fundamentally flawed in it's logic.> > Karma of one cannot be transferred to another - it can be postponed or> speeded up or forgiven (paramAtma or the offended), NOT transferred. > Daughter of a thief cannot be hanged for the sins of the father - that is> just illogical. Only the thief must be punished, or the judge can pardon> him, or the person robbed can forgive the thief. The example of father > paying is also incorrect - he doesn't HAVE to pay, and if he chooses to,> paramatma has infinite resources, so where is this " sacrifice " part??? to> sacrifice, we must lose something. Also, what sort of paramatma is this if > he has to suffer... > > While there are some elements of truth in Suryaji's email, there are serious> problems as well...just trying to separate the vedanta from pseudoanta here.> > hari smaraNs,> prANadAsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Dear Utkal Ji, I usually keep away from non-astrological posts. The only reason I got involved originally in this thread is because Surya ji made a link between Grahas being inert. Astrology can be a very passionate subject, BUT religion can invoke even greater passions and emotions. I have never seen a passionate "philosophical" argument to be "useful" or "change people's minds", but an astrological argument is always useful. I consider Sreenadh Ji a good friend of mine and a very knowledgeable person in Astrology. BUT when he makes a statement that I see as "unfair" or "inappropriate" I feel as a friend, obliged to give my opinion. I always try to be fair and objective, AND as a Moderator, I have the responsibility to comment on some thing, even if it comes from the Owner of this Group. There is ALWAYS a way to make our point, without being or appearing disrespectful. Regards, -Manoj utkal.panigrahi <utkal.panigrahi Sent: Wed, October 28, 2009 9:14:56 AM Re: Christian Karma! Dear Manoj Ji,This new controversy is emerging due to incorrect understanding of karma, they lack proper understanding of imprint of karma in life and it's purging.It's widely accepted that somebody has to bear his karma but that's not always true.Karma can be erased by several means like Ishwar Sharangati, Guru Kripa and Shakti Paata, Prayaschita etc. Such examples are scattered in our hindu sanatan classics also.I don't understand why no pain is realized in group's scholars when institutions, religions are attacked but upon some clues, same scholars dont leave a chance in flooding tears in case you react strongly to such attackers.Regards,Utkal ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhi Ji,> > Are you not making the mistake of making a blanket statement about Christians? After all we are not Christians and we don't live as Christians. Also Christianity also has various flavours and subtelties as Hindus have. Being Hindus I feel we have a right to be fiercely ciritical of our own religion but may be we should show more restraint in criticizing others.> > Just my honest opinion.> > Regards,> -Manoj> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> sreesog <sreesog >> ancient_indian_ astrology> Wed, October 28, 2009 4:18:21 AM> Subject: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Christian Karma!> > > Dear prANadAsa ji,> //just trying to separate the vedanta from pseudoanta here.//> It is not even pseudoanta but only pseudo-Christianity or Poulism ascribed to Jesus. It is not even Christianity. Jesus was an enlightened being who followed some kind of Tantric cult; the modern Christians (followers of Poul) not only crucified Jesus but also the philosophy he taught! They had to kill the whole tribe to which Jesus belonged to and also rewrite most of his teachings to implement this. How sad! They were and still remain enemy to their own god and god's son! Yes, true for them - Sinners they are! How can they escape from it except parroting that they are not!> I like the teachings of Jesus as reflected in Nag Hammadi gospels such as Gospel of Thomas, Philip, Mery, Judas, Gospel of Peace etc. Ofcouse the Gospel of Mathew as given in modern bible is also good. But the modern Christians turned the teachings of Jesus upside down and turned his great philosophy into rubbish, and turned humans into animals - sheep! And now this cattle herd (!) of non-brainy animals (!) need a shepperd and jackal priest with sheep cloth comes forward and say - I a representative (!) of the real shepperd! Poor jackal and the poor cattle herd; true spirituality is not for this animal herd; but for the humans! Ofcourse Jesus was a truly spiritual and enlightened human being and alas that Paul and king constantine were not!> Note: This message is not in anyway against Jesus - an enlightened being I respect - and not against the true followers of the philosophy he taught. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh > > ancient_indian_ astrology, s s <freemorons@ ...> wrote:> >> > "lord sacrifices himself for your sins" is classic Christianity and is> > fundamentally flawed in it's logic.> > > > Karma of one cannot be transferred to another - it can be postponed or> > speeded up or forgiven (paramAtma or the offended), NOT transferred.> > Daughter of a thief cannot be hanged for the sins of the father - that is> > just illogical. Only the thief must be punished, or the judge can pardon> > him, or the person robbed can forgive the thief. The example of father> > paying is also incorrect - he doesn't HAVE to pay, and if he chooses to,> > paramatma has infinite resources, so where is this "sacrifice" part??? to> > sacrifice, we must lose something. Also, what sort of paramatma is this if> > he has to suffer... > > > > While there are some elements of truth in Suryaji's email, there are serious> > problems as well...just trying to separate the vedanta from pseudoanta here.> > > > hari smaraNs,> > prANadAsa> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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