[VRI] [Ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Dhruva the Ancient Vedic Pole Star

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Shri Krishen says;

 

/////  Rashi based phalita jyotisha started in India from Yavnajatakam of

Sphujidwaja. After that there was Minaraja's Vridha Yavanajatakam. The works

of Varahamihria came much later.//////

 

Let Mr. Krishen produce one single book on astrology in the Greek language to

prove that Varahamihira exactly took from that book. Yavanajataka, for your

information, is a work in the Sanskrit language by a Yonabrahmin. Kalhana knew

about the Yonabrahmins.

 

 

////   All the commentators on theVedanga Jyotisha clarify in one voice

that the Rashi mantra in the Yajusha Jyotisham is spurious! ////

 

Let him quote what all the commentators of Vedanga Jtotisha say in their own

expressions, if he has read all the commentaries. He should not evade the

commentaries of Dr. Shama Shastri and particularly of those before Prof. Max

Muller's time.

 

I am sure Mr Krishen will try all his tricks to evade this. I wish somebody

should be able to   stop  him from spreading the unsubstantiated statements

any more.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Krishen <jyotirved wrote:

 

Krishen <jyotirved

[VRI] Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Dhruva the Ancient Vedic Pole

Star

vedic_research_institute

Saturday, November 7, 2009, 7:20 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, " Krishen "

 

<jyotirved@. ..> wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Astroveda,

 

 

 

Jai ShriRam!

 

 

 

<Kaulji,plz give look to references,and also let us know how jyotish is

 

of greeks as u say,and let us know fm where hipparchus learnt chord

 

table,plz let me know wen babylonian kingdom came in existance >

 

 

 

Let me make it very clear here that the word jyotish is being used

 

presently in the sense of phalita-jyotish. That was never the intention

 

of Acharya Lagadha or other rishis, nor of the sidhantakaras including

 

Bhaskara-II.

 

 

 

Rashi based phalita jyotisha started in India from Yavnajatakam of

 

Sphujidwaja. After that there was Minaraja's Vridha Yavanajatakam. The

 

works of Varahamihria came much later. As such, predictive astrology is

 

of Greek origin in India. This will be clear to you if you do a

 

comparative study of Yavana Jatakam, available in scribd and astrojyoti

 

etc. sites on the web, with Brihat Jatakam of Varahamihira. The latter

 

has almost copied all the details in to-to from Sphujidwaja and

 

Minaraja. Varahimihra has expressed his indebtendess to yavanas in no

 

uncertain terms and at several places he has said, " Yavanah oochuh " . He

 

has also made it very clear in his Brihat Samhita that it was only

 

because of their command over phalita jyotisha that though the Greeks

 

(whom he called yavanas) were actually mlechhas but even then they were

 

worshipped like rishis (in India).

 

 

 

All the phalita-jyotisha works right from the so called Brihat Parashara

 

Hora shastram of the so called Parashara Rishi and Brihat Jtakam etc.

 

refer to Kemdruma etc. yogas; panaphara, apoklima, kendra etc. bhavas.

 

These are all signs of Greek origin.

 

 

 

Regarding Hipparchus' knowledge of chord table, I have not concentrated

 

on that aspect yet. What is known as on date is that there was a star

 

catalogue of Hipparchus, which is available on the net. The longitudes

 

of stars that Hipparchus obtained on that date were different from the

 

ones that had been given in the earlier works prior to Hipparchus. That

 

made him discover the theory of Precession of Equinoxes. The longitudes

 

of Junction Stars in the Surya Sidhanta could very much be based on

 

that work of Hipparchus.

 

 

 

Regarding thrity-four horses of Ashvamedha-yajnya etc., I will have to

 

check the references and see as to in what context and sense that had

 

been indicated. But, regarding the thrity-three or thirty-four wives of

 

the Moon, it can never mean that apart from twenty-eight nakshatras,

 

five planets were meant by the additional five wives, especially since

 

it has been said that all the thirty-three wives of the moon were

 

daughters of Dakshya Prajapati. And planets like Mangal, Budha, Shukra

 

and especially Brihaspati and Shani cannot be said to be daughters of

 

Dakshya Prajapati.

 

 

 

< Certainly Rashi are mentioned in VEDAS or Brahmnas as there origin is

 

constellation and constellation took birth near around in 4'th circa

 

BC.So how could be mentioned in Vedas, Brahmnas, Samhitas.>

 

 

 

Constellations were imaginary unequal animal division of a non-existent

 

circle known as zodiac which extended about 9 degrees above and below

 

yet another " apparent " circle known as ecliptic in Greco-Chaldean

 

astrology/astronomy in the past! Astrologial rashis like mesha, Vrisha

 

etc. were/are a distortion of those very unequal imaginary animals by

 

being " cut to size " and made equal to one another. As such, it is

 

impossible that there could be any references to those imaginary equal

 

animals in the Vedas. If you have found those imaginary animals being

 

mentioned int he Vedas, Brahmanas and Samhitas, as claimed by you, pl.

 

do give proper references.

 

< I also say that our months were seasonal and 12 in counts(and this

 

concept of Vedic months went to whole world and they made calendar of 12

 

months otherwise before it, Romans had calendar of 10 months,

 

Babylonaians and Egyptians of 36 months), our vedic calendar got

 

derailed when Rashis hijacked Indian astronomical facts by Greeks who

 

remained stayed over here and converted to Hindus because Persians were

 

very violent and aggressive towards them.>

 

 

 

Since the twelve Vedic months were seasonal, they could thus never be

 

linked to Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis, obviously! Seasonal months are

 

real phenomena of time, whereas rashis are just imaginary divisions. No

 

seasonal month is equal to another, but rashis are of thirty degrees

 

each! Besides, it has been clarifed by eminent scholars already that

 

Rashis are of Greek origin. All the commentators on theVedanga

 

Jyotisha clarify in one voice that the Rashi mantra in the Yajusha

 

Jyotisham is spurious! As such, I fail to understand as to what you

 

mean by " our vedic calendar got derailed when Rashis hijacked Indian

 

astronomical facts by Greeks " . However, it is a fact that the Vedic

 

calendar lost all its beauty and credibility because the Vedic months

 

Madhu, Madhava etc. got clubbed with Mina, Mesha etc. rashis, so called

 

sayana to start with till about seventeenth century AD and then to a so

 

called nirayana mess with hundreds of ayanamshas. It is the sacred duty

 

of every Hindu to delink the Vedic calendar from the curses like Mesha,

 

Vrisha etc. rashis and put it back on their original track of Madhu,

 

Madhava etc. months.

 

 

 

Jai Shri Ram

 

 

 

A K Kaul

 

 

 

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, " Astro "

 

astro.vedas@ wrote:

 

>

 

> Kaulji,plz give look to references,and also let us know how jyotish is

 

of greeks as u say,and let us know fm where hipparchus learnt chord

 

table,plz let me know wen babylonian kingdom came in existance

 

>

 

> Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com,

 

Astro.Vedas@ @ wrote:

 

> >

 

> > < 1) What were the 34 horses in the context of Asvamedha which was

 

one of the most important ritual during Vedic times and mentioned in

 

> > Rig-Veda. >

 

> >

 

> > References :-

 

> >

 

> > Rg Veda I.163.2

 

> > Rg Veda I.162.18

 

> > Rg Veda I.162.19

 

> > Yajur Veda, Taittirya Samhita VII.5.25

 

> > Brhadaranyaka Upanisad I.1

 

> >

 

> > < 2) Who were the 33 wives of Moon. (Mentioned in Rig Veda) >

 

> >

 

> > Reference :-

 

> >

 

> > Rg Veda X.85

 

> > Atharva Veda XIV.1

 

> >

 

> > < 3) Who were the 33 daughters of Daksha which were given in mariage

 

to

 

> > Moon. (Mentioned in YajurVeda, Taittriya Sanhita) >

 

> >

 

> > Reference :-

 

> >

 

> > Yajur Veda, Taittirya Samhita II.3.5.1

 

> >

 

> > < 4) What are the 34 lights mentioned in Rig Veda. >

 

> >

 

> > Rg Veda VII.86.1

 

> > Atharva Veda X.88.13

 

> >

 

> > Astro.Vedas

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, AKKaul@@

 

wrote:

 

> > >

 

> > >

 

> > > Shri Jagadamba Khokra ji,

 

> > >

 

> > > Jai Shri Ram!

 

> > >

 

> > > Pl give the exact references of the Rik as well as Yajur Veda to

 

enable

 

> > > me to answer your questions.

 

> > >

 

> > > Jai Shri Ram.

 

> > >

 

> > > A K Kaul

 

> > >

 

> > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com,

 

> > > Astro.Vedas@ @ wrote:

 

> > > >

 

> > > > Dear Shri Kaulji,

 

> > > >

 

> > > > I have some questions which lead to only one answer, could you

 

please

 

> > > clarify it :-

 

> > > >

 

> > > > 1) What were the 34 horses in the context of Asvamedha which was

 

one

 

> > > of the most important ritual during Vedic times and mentioned in

 

> > > Rig-Veda.

 

> > > >

 

> > > > 2) Who were the 33 wives of Moon. (Mentioned in Rig Veda)

 

> > > >

 

> > > > 3) Who were the 33 daughters of Daksha which were given in

 

mariage to

 

> > > Moon. (Mentioned in YajurVeda, Taittriya Sanhita)

 

> > > >

 

> > > > 4) What are the 34 lights mentioned in Rig Veda.

 

> > > >

 

> > > > Do the above queries dont lead us to say that we were aware of 5

 

> > > planets, yes 2 shadowy planets dont come up in it as those were

 

not

 

> > > visible in sky,But yes those,planets were not mentioned by name in

 

> > > VEDAS, but yes in MBH those are mentioned.

 

> > > >

 

> > > > Certainly Rashi are mentioned in VEDAS or Brahmnas as there

 

origin is

 

> > > constellation and constellation took birth near around in 4'th

 

circa

 

> > > BC.So how could be mentioned in Vedas, Brahmnas, Samhitas.

 

> > > >

 

> > > > I also say that our months were seasonal and 12 in counts(and

 

this

 

> > > concept of Vedic months went to whole world and they made calendar

 

of 12

 

> > > months otherwise before it, Romans had calendar of 10 months,

 

> > > Babylonaians and Egyptians of 36 months), our vedic calendar got

 

> > > derailed when Rashis hijacked Indian astronomical facts by Greeks

 

who

 

> > > remained stayed over here and converted to Hindus because Persians

 

were

 

> > > very violent and aggressive towards them.

 

> > > >

 

> > > > Astro.Vedas

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > > --- On Mon, 10/5/09, AKKaul@ AKKaul@ wrote:

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > > AKKaul@ AKKaul@

 

> > > > [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Dhruva the Ancient Vedic

 

Pole

 

> > > Star

 

> > > > indian_astrology_ group_daily_ digest@grou ps.com

 

> > > > Monday, October 5, 2009, 12:36 PM

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > >

 

> > > > IndiaArchaeology, " aareni " aareni@

 

wrote:

 

> > > >

 

> > > > Jacobi a German indologist in 1894, argued that the Vedic people

 

knew

 

> > > alpha-Draconis as their Pole Star.This claim was opposed by

 

Whitney,

 

> > > Keith and others who were against arguments, however logical they

 

might

 

> > > have been, that would push the Rigveda to a date more ancient than

 

1500

 

> > > BCE. It turns out Jacobi was right, even though his arguments were

 

weak.

 

> > > His opponents, claiming to know the whole of the Vedic corpus,

 

> > > suppressed information that would have helped Jacobi. We pursue

 

this

 

> > > topic from a totally different perspective.

 

> > > > ---

 

> > > > Complete paper available for reading at

 

> > > > http://www.scribd. com/doc/20298010 /Dhruva-the-

 

Ancient-VedicHin

 

> > > du-Pole-Star-

 

> > > >

 

> > > > Thanks

 

> > > > RN Iyengar

 

> > > >

 

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

 

> > > >

 

> > >

 

> >

 

>

 

> --- End forwarded message ---

 

>

 

 

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,Shri Krishen says;///// Rashi based phalita jyotisha started in India from Yavnajatakam of Sphujidwaja. After that there was Minaraja's Vridha Yavanajatakam. The works of Varahamihria came much later.//////Let Mr. Krishen produce one single book on astrology in the Greek language to prove that Varahamihira exactly took from that book. Yavanajataka, for your information, is a work in the Sanskrit language by a Yonabrahmin. Kalhana knew about the Yonabrahmins. //// All the commentators on theVedanga Jyotisha clarify in one voice that the Rashi mantra in

the Yajusha Jyotisham is spurious! ////Let him quote what all the commentators of Vedanga Jtotisha say in their own expressions, if he has read all the commentaries. He should not evade the commentaries of Dr. Shama Shastri and particularly of those before Prof. Max Muller's time.I am sure Mr Krishen will try all his tricks to evade this. I wish somebody should be able to stop him from spreading the unsubstantiated statements any more.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Krishen <jyotirved wrote:Krishen <jyotirved[VRI] Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Dhruva the Ancient Vedic Pole StarTo:

vedic_research_institute Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 7:20 AM

 

 

 

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, "Krishen"

<jyotirved@. ..> wrote:

 

Dear Astroveda,

 

Jai ShriRam!

 

<Kaulji,plz give look to references,and also let us know how jyotish is

of greeks as u say,and let us know fm where hipparchus learnt chord

table,plz let me know wen babylonian kingdom came in existance >

 

Let me make it very clear here that the word jyotish is being used

presently in the sense of phalita-jyotish. That was never the intention

of Acharya Lagadha or other rishis, nor of the sidhantakaras including

Bhaskara-II.

 

Rashi based phalita jyotisha started in India from Yavnajatakam of

Sphujidwaja. After that there was Minaraja's Vridha Yavanajatakam. The

works of Varahamihria came much later. As such, predictive astrology is

of Greek origin in India. This will be clear to you if you do a

comparative study of Yavana Jatakam, available in scribd and astrojyoti

etc. sites on the web, with Brihat Jatakam of Varahamihira. The latter

has almost copied all the details in to-to from Sphujidwaja and

Minaraja. Varahimihra has expressed his indebtendess to yavanas in no

uncertain terms and at several places he has said, "Yavanah oochuh". He

has also made it very clear in his Brihat Samhita that it was only

because of their command over phalita jyotisha that though the Greeks

(whom he called yavanas) were actually mlechhas but even then they were

worshipped like rishis (in India).

 

All the phalita-jyotisha works right from the so called Brihat Parashara

Hora shastram of the so called Parashara Rishi and Brihat Jtakam etc.

refer to Kemdruma etc. yogas; panaphara, apoklima, kendra etc. bhavas.

These are all signs of Greek origin.

 

Regarding Hipparchus' knowledge of chord table, I have not concentrated

on that aspect yet. What is known as on date is that there was a star

catalogue of Hipparchus, which is available on the net. The longitudes

of stars that Hipparchus obtained on that date were different from the

ones that had been given in the earlier works prior to Hipparchus. That

made him discover the theory of Precession of Equinoxes. The longitudes

of Junction Stars in the Surya Sidhanta could very much be based on

that work of Hipparchus.

 

Regarding thrity-four horses of Ashvamedha-yajnya etc., I will have to

check the references and see as to in what context and sense that had

been indicated. But, regarding the thrity-three or thirty-four wives of

the Moon, it can never mean that apart from twenty-eight nakshatras,

five planets were meant by the additional five wives, especially since

it has been said that all the thirty-three wives of the moon were

daughters of Dakshya Prajapati. And planets like Mangal, Budha, Shukra

and especially Brihaspati and Shani cannot be said to be daughters of

Dakshya Prajapati.

 

< Certainly Rashi are mentioned in VEDAS or Brahmnas as there origin is

constellation and constellation took birth near around in 4'th circa

BC.So how could be mentioned in Vedas, Brahmnas, Samhitas.>

 

Constellations were imaginary unequal animal division of a non-existent

circle known as zodiac which extended about 9 degrees above and below

yet another "apparent" circle known as ecliptic in Greco-Chaldean

astrology/astronomy in the past! Astrologial rashis like mesha, Vrisha

etc. were/are a distortion of those very unequal imaginary animals by

being "cut to size" and made equal to one another. As such, it is

impossible that there could be any references to those imaginary equal

animals in the Vedas. If you have found those imaginary animals being

mentioned int he Vedas, Brahmanas and Samhitas, as claimed by you, pl.

do give proper references.

< I also say that our months were seasonal and 12 in counts(and this

concept of Vedic months went to whole world and they made calendar of 12

months otherwise before it, Romans had calendar of 10 months,

Babylonaians and Egyptians of 36 months), our vedic calendar got

derailed when Rashis hijacked Indian astronomical facts by Greeks who

remained stayed over here and converted to Hindus because Persians were

very violent and aggressive towards them.>

 

Since the twelve Vedic months were seasonal, they could thus never be

linked to Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis, obviously! Seasonal months are

real phenomena of time, whereas rashis are just imaginary divisions. No

seasonal month is equal to another, but rashis are of thirty degrees

each! Besides, it has been clarifed by eminent scholars already that

Rashis are of Greek origin. All the commentators on theVedanga

Jyotisha clarify in one voice that the Rashi mantra in the Yajusha

Jyotisham is spurious! As such, I fail to understand as to what you

mean by "our vedic calendar got derailed when Rashis hijacked Indian

astronomical facts by Greeks". However, it is a fact that the Vedic

calendar lost all its beauty and credibility because the Vedic months

Madhu, Madhava etc. got clubbed with Mina, Mesha etc. rashis, so called

sayana to start with till about seventeenth century AD and then to a so

called nirayana mess with hundreds of ayanamshas. It is the sacred duty

of every Hindu to delink the Vedic calendar from the curses like Mesha,

Vrisha etc. rashis and put it back on their original track of Madhu,

Madhava etc. months.

 

Jai Shri Ram

 

A K Kaul

 

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, "Astro"

astro.vedas@ wrote:

>

> Kaulji,plz give look to references,and also let us know how jyotish is

of greeks as u say,and let us know fm where hipparchus learnt chord

table,plz let me know wen babylonian kingdom came in existance

>

> Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com,

Astro.Vedas@ @ wrote:

> >

> > < 1) What were the 34 horses in the context of Asvamedha which was

one of the most important ritual during Vedic times and mentioned in

> > Rig-Veda. >

> >

> > References :-

> >

> > Rg Veda I.163.2

> > Rg Veda I.162.18

> > Rg Veda I.162.19

> > Yajur Veda, Taittirya Samhita VII.5.25

> > Brhadaranyaka Upanisad I.1

> >

> > < 2) Who were the 33 wives of Moon. (Mentioned in Rig Veda) >

> >

> > Reference :-

> >

> > Rg Veda X.85

> > Atharva Veda XIV.1

> >

> > < 3) Who were the 33 daughters of Daksha which were given in mariage

to

> > Moon. (Mentioned in YajurVeda, Taittriya Sanhita) >

> >

> > Reference :-

> >

> > Yajur Veda, Taittirya Samhita II.3.5.1

> >

> > < 4) What are the 34 lights mentioned in Rig Veda. >

> >

> > Rg Veda VII.86.1

> > Atharva Veda X.88.13

> >

> > Astro.Vedas

> >

> >

> > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, AKKaul@@

wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Shri Jagadamba Khokra ji,

> > >

> > > Jai Shri Ram!

> > >

> > > Pl give the exact references of the Rik as well as Yajur Veda to

enable

> > > me to answer your questions.

> > >

> > > Jai Shri Ram.

> > >

> > > A K Kaul

> > >

> > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com,

> > > Astro.Vedas@ @ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Kaulji,

> > > >

> > > > I have some questions which lead to only one answer, could you

please

> > > clarify it :-

> > > >

> > > > 1) What were the 34 horses in the context of Asvamedha which was

one

> > > of the most important ritual during Vedic times and mentioned in

> > > Rig-Veda.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Who were the 33 wives of Moon. (Mentioned in Rig Veda)

> > > >

> > > > 3) Who were the 33 daughters of Daksha which were given in

mariage to

> > > Moon. (Mentioned in YajurVeda, Taittriya Sanhita)

> > > >

> > > > 4) What are the 34 lights mentioned in Rig Veda.

> > > >

> > > > Do the above queries dont lead us to say that we were aware of 5

> > > planets, yes 2 shadowy planets dont come up in it as those were

not

> > > visible in sky,But yes those,planets were not mentioned by name in

> > > VEDAS, but yes in MBH those are mentioned.

> > > >

> > > > Certainly Rashi are mentioned in VEDAS or Brahmnas as there

origin is

> > > constellation and constellation took birth near around in 4'th

circa

> > > BC.So how could be mentioned in Vedas, Brahmnas, Samhitas.

> > > >

> > > > I also say that our months were seasonal and 12 in counts(and

this

> > > concept of Vedic months went to whole world and they made calendar

of 12

> > > months otherwise before it, Romans had calendar of 10 months,

> > > Babylonaians and Egyptians of 36 months), our vedic calendar got

> > > derailed when Rashis hijacked Indian astronomical facts by Greeks

who

> > > remained stayed over here and converted to Hindus because Persians

were

> > > very violent and aggressive towards them.

> > > >

> > > > Astro.Vedas

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Mon, 10/5/09, AKKaul@ AKKaul@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > AKKaul@ AKKaul@

> > > > [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Dhruva the Ancient Vedic

Pole

> > > Star

> > > > indian_astrology_ group_daily_ digest@grou ps.com

> > > > Monday, October 5, 2009, 12:36 PM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > IndiaArchaeology, "aareni" aareni@

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Jacobi a German indologist in 1894, argued that the Vedic people

knew

> > > alpha-Draconis as their Pole Star.This claim was opposed by

Whitney,

> > > Keith and others who were against arguments, however logical they

might

> > > have been, that would push the Rigveda to a date more ancient than

1500

> > > BCE. It turns out Jacobi was right, even though his arguments were

weak.

> > > His opponents, claiming to know the whole of the Vedic corpus,

> > > suppressed information that would have helped Jacobi. We pursue

this

> > > topic from a totally different perspective.

> > > > ---

> > > > Complete paper available for reading at

> > > > http://www.scribd. com/doc/20298010 /Dhruva-the-

Ancient-VedicHin

> > > du-Pole-Star-

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > RN Iyengar

> > > >

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---