Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Kursija ji, Here goes the whole article. Please try to apply the method in other charts as well, and let us have a study based on some more example charts. ===================== Ayurdaya Calculation Systems - Written by Sreenadh OG The common thread between almost all the different Ayurdaya systems available to us from Rishi horas is that – "Neecheshooccha dalam hi tat" (Placement in debilitation indicated half the longevity as indicated by placement in exaltation) as Skanda Hora puts it. All sages and every text has consensus on this – but differs much in further details. While dealing with longevity calculations, Brihat Jataka mentions and provides us with the opinion of the following 6 scholars – Maya, Yavana, Manintha, Parasara, Jeevasarma and Satyacharya. There are some similarity and difference between the opinion of these 6 scholars based on which these opinions can be categorized into three. 1) Opinion of Maya, Yavana, Manintha, Parasara (Pindayu Ayurdaya System) Mihira mentions them together in the quote "Maya Yavana Manintha Saktipurvair", due to the similarity of the system they accepted for calculating longevity. Actually this itself is one of the major opinion supported by Rishi horas such as Skanda hora, Sounaka hora etc as well even though they support the other branched methods ascribed to Jeevasarma and Satyacharya as well. Any way the base point of similarity between the opinion of Maya, Yavana, Manintha and Parasara on this is that – they all ascribe a specific number of years to a plant in exaltation. (The system is usually known as `Pindayu' calculation system) The following quote from Brihat Jataka clarifies this basic point regarding the longevity calculation system (known as `Pindayu') even though when going to further details there is some differences of opinion between these scholars – Maya Yavana Manintha Saktipurvair Divasakaradishu valtsara pradishta Nava-tithi-vishaya-aswi-bhoota-rudra Dasa sahita dasa cha swa-tungabheshu (Brihat Jataka) [As per the scholars Maya, Yavana, Manintha and Parasara, the planets provide the following years of longevity when placed in their maximum degree of exaltation. Sun – 19 years; Moon-25 years; Mars-15 years; Mercury-12 years; Jupiter-15 years; Venus-21 years; Saturn-20 years] As mentioned above when goes to the details of calculation there is some differences of opinion between these scholars, but they all agree upon this basic point of longevity years ascribed to each planet. But please note that this is not an opinion known to these scholars alone, but was a well known earlier Arsha opinion as evident from the following Skanda hora quote. It is from Skanda's teachings to Brahma that even the above scholars came to know about such teachings, as evident from the fact that all of them – including Maya, Yavana, Manintha and Parasara – considers that they got this knowledge from Brahma (i.e. from Skanda Hora – Skanda's teachings to Brahma). I am providing the detailed Skanda hora quote without commentary which covers this number of years ascribed to planets and much more below – Athata Ayushaschintaisha mahan bharoyamagrataH Na vyavasthedametavadadya swaswati vidyate Apyayate krite njanatretayam pranamsamyamat Ayushmatyadibhistadva Ishtibhir dwapare yuge Na njanam na cha yogascha navadhyo vaidiko vidhiH Kalau tat parimasama iti kechid vipaschitaH Manvana iva tungaste Surya ekonavimsatim Paramayuranushnamsau saradaH panchavimsatim Bhaume panchadasa prahu sarado dwadasenduja Jeeve panchadasacharye daityanam panchavimsatim Mande vimsatimete cha naivamischanti tat sada Yavat krite na tavadvai tretayantadvichakshate Tretayam yavadetadvai tavanna dwapare yuge Dwapare yavadetadvai tavannaiva kalau yuge Evam yuge yuge tasya hrasam kinna vichakshate Etavattvam mato noonam na teshanchatra sasvatam Tasyayuraprasiddhantadekadha jyotisham sada Prasiddhamitametesham neecheshooccha dalam hi tat. (Skanda hora) I don't want to go into the detailed analysis and clarification of the above authentic Skanda Hora quote; but it is well evident that the system of ascribing 19 years to Sun, 25 years to Moon etc while they are placed in their maximum degree of exaltation was well known even from Arsha Skanda Hora period itself. Maya, Yavana, Manitha, Parasara etc learned astrology from Brahma as provided in Skanda Hora teachings and they have clearly expressed their regard to his guru in their texts as well. This is the major tusk of the system of Longevity calculation rooted in Skanda Hora and the branches with similarity are teachings of Maya (Surya Kula), teachings of Yavana (Yavana Kula), teachings of Manitha (a sub branch of Yavnana Kula itself), teachings of Parasara (Parasara Kula). Anyway, a detailed analysis of Pindayu calculation and the difference of teachings while drilling into further details as per the Maya, Yavana, Manintha, Parasara universities is not of our concern here; and so I stop my discussion on Pindayu system here. 2) Opinion of Jeevasarma (Jeevasarmeeya Ayurdaya system) Jeevasarma expresses and popularized a bit different opinion. Brihat Jataka speaks about the opinion of Jeevasarma in the following line - Swamatena kilaha Jeevasarma grahadayam paramayushaH swaramsam (Briahta Jataka) [A scholar named Jeevasarma basing himself on the opinion that the longevity provided by planets could be similar; considers the longevity provided by all planets as equal – 1/7th of maximum longevity of 120 years. Thus as per Jeevasarama the longevity that should be ascribed to `any' planet placed in exaltation should be 17 years, 1 month, 22 days] The word `kilaha' used in the above quote expressing doubt and actually denies the effort of others to state that this is an `own (self created)' opinion by Jeevasarama. Just like any other reputed ancient astro-scholar he too was very sincere and even his opinion has a clear base in ancient Rihi horas. The opinion of Jeevasarma is based on the following Skanda Hora quote – Mamaite sadrisaH putra yatha yuyam yadhahyami Anvicchataisham samyantadanuyuktetra sarvatha Athava tapasaH svasya veeryenanu prapasyata Yadi dayeshu yaH kaschidviseshomeeshu sambhavet (Skanda Hora) [As my children (all planets) are equal; their wish (regarding longevity; longevity years) are equal in all sense. OR based on your meditation capability `know' the power (and the longevity provided by) each planet and then calculate the total longevity. Some people follow this path] As you could clearly see, Skanda Hora expresses two major opinions in the above quote – one, ascribing equal longevity years to all planets and two, ascribing `specific' (`known' by meditation; or better based on `opinion' of various sages) years to planets. While Jeevasarma took the first path pointed to by Skanda Hora, other like Maya-Yvana-Manitha-Parasara took the other path of using specific number of years mentioned in Skanda Hora itself. Anyway, a detailed analysis of Jeevasarmeeya Ayurdaya calculation and the difference of teachings while drilling into further details as per Jeevasarma are not of our concern here; and so I stop my discussion on Jeevasarmeeya system here. 3) Opinion of Satyacharya (Navamsaka Ayurdaya system) In the opinion expressed by Satyacharya is that longevity calculation should be based on Navamsa sign (Navamsa sign – i.e. Navamsaka). This opinion differs from the base trends – 1) "Neecheshooccha dalam hi tat" (Placement in debilitation indicated half the longevity as indicated by placement in exaltation) 2) Harana (deduction of longevity years based on specific rules) Two specific qualities that is common to all longevity calculation systems. Even though this distinct and different from the basic Pindayu calculation system, Mihira is of the opinion that Satyacharyas system is more dependable. Just like Maya, Parasara, Jeevasarma etc Satyacharya based himself in a quote of Brihat Prajapta (a commentary of Skanda Hora) so to derive this system. The Brihat Prajapatya quote that became reference to Satyacharya was "Ayurgrahamsakaistulyamanye kechana manyate" (Some other's consider longevity as equal to Navamsaka). As per Brihat Jataka - Grahabhukta navamsa rasi tulyam bahusamyam samupaiti satya vakyam (Briahta Jataka) [Longevity is equal to the number of Navaksaka (starting from Aries) consumed by every planet. The opinion of Satyacharya becomes very correct in most of the situations (and I appreciate the same)] If Mihira says, some thing is specially good, that he must be saying it from his own experience and it must be so. So we will try to learn and understand this system in detail. But before proceeding I want to clarify one major point regarding this system which we should never forget. No where it is mentioned that the `Neecheshooccha dala' rule or the `Harana' rules apply to Navamsaka Ayurdaya system. Actually both Brihat Prajaptya and Brihat Jataka `deny' the application of `Neecheshooccha dala' rule or the `Harana' rules to Navamsaka Ayurdaya system. We will approach this system of longevity calculation in a detailed manner in the next section. Navamsaka based Ayurdaya Calculation System Let us start our study of this system based on the popular Brihat Jataka quote about the same itself. Standard Calculation Grahabhukta navamsa rasi tulyam bahusamyam samupaiti satya vakyam (Briahta Jataka) [Longevity is equal to the number of Navaksaka (starting from Aries) consumed by every planet. The opinion of Satyacharya becomes very correct in most of the situations (and I appreciate the same)] It is well evident that – Normally, the maximum longevity (Praramayu) as per this system would be 12 signs x 9 planets = 108 years approximately. But it could be more than this as well considering Lagna, Lagnamsaka and the various multiplications suggested by Satyacharya.The Navamsa sputa of the planet and the Navamsaka count starting from Aries indicate the number of longevity years donated by that planet to the native. Mihira provides a clear calculation method in the following quote – Satyokte grahamishtam liptaH kritva satadvayenapte MandalabhagavisuddhebdaH syusseshattu masadyaH (Briaht Jataka) [As per Satayacharyas opinion – Convert the planetary longitude into minutes. Divide it with 200 minutes (1 Navamsa). Expunge the multiples of 12 Signs. Convert the remaining into year, month, days] Thus, Longevity = P/200 where P is the planetary longitude in minutes. For example, let us assume that 3-2-20 is the longitude of Sun. Then longevity provided by Sun would be – [(3 x 30x 60) + (2 x 60) + 20]/200 = (5400+ 120+20)/200 = 5540/200 = 27.7 Expunging the multiples of 12, we get 27.7 – 12x2 = 3.7 Thus the longevity provided by Sun would be 3 years 8 months and 12 days. Another method that can be used would be – P x 9/1800 where P is the planetary longitude in minutes. {[(3 x 30x 60) + (2 x 60) + 20] x 9}/1800 = (5540x9)/1800 = 49860/1800 = 27.7 Expunging the multiples of 12, we get 27.7 – 12x2 = 3.7 Thus the longevity provided by Sun would be 3 years 8 months and 12 days. Following the same method we should find the longevity provided by every planet including Rahu and Ketu. Adding all of them together we get the total longevity provided by all the planets for that native. But apart from this simple and straight forward calculation method (which may provide a longevity number less than 108), some special rules are also mentioned by Satyacharya, and there too some variants are available. Let us see what these special rules are – Special Rule -1 The first special rule that is associated with planets in exaltation or retrograde is given below - Swatunga vakropagataistrisamgunam dwiruttamaswamsakabhatribhagagaiH Iyan viseshastu bhadandabhashite samanamanyal prathamepyudeeritam (Brihat Jataka) [if longevity is provided by any planet in exaltation or retrograde then it should be multiplied by three. If longevity is provided by any planet in Vargottama, own Navamsaka, own sign or own Drekkana then it should be multiplied by two. This is a specialty in the word Satyacharya. Everything else (every other calculation) is as told earlier, as usual - normal] Special Rule -2 The second special rule that is associated with Amsayu system proposed by Satyacharya is that longevity as provided by Lagnamsaka should also be considered. This was not so in the case of Pindayu and Jeemasarmeeya systems. In both those systems longevity provided by Lagna (Lagnayu) is considered but not the longevity provided by Lagna Navamsaka (Lagnamsaka-ayu). Let us hear about this second special rule, from Mihira himself – Kintvatra bhamsapratimam dadati veeryanvita rasisamancha hora Kroorodaye yopachayassa natra karyancha nabdaiH prathamopadishtaiH (Brihat Jataka) [One more special rule (not accepted by all) is there. As per this opinion, If Lagna is weak Longevity as indicated by Lagnamsaka should be added. If Lagna is strong; longevity as indicated by Lagna and Lagnamsaka should be added together and average should be taken. If malefic planets are present in lagna then this special rule does not apply, and (in whatever condition) the `predefined years' and `harana' (deduction of longevity) concepts and rules mentioned earlier (related to Pindayu system) does not apply] It all seems to be much interesting! First a straight forward rule to calculate the longevity based on planetary Navamsaka longitudes, and then two special rules that makes things a bit complex. The complexity comes from two factors – 1) In case of the first rule, how to determine which multiplication to apply when there is a possibility of multiple multiplications (i.e. for example a planet in vargottama and in exaltation)? 2) In case of the second rule, how to check whether lagna is strong or not? Strong compared to what? Compared to Lagnamsaka or what? If only clear answers to these two questions are available then only the system popularized and supported by Satyacharya become simple and useful – otherwise not. Certainly we will try to answer this question, but before that itself another question should be addressed. From where did Satyacharya got this method? From where did Satyacharya got this method? Was a method self created by him? No! Certainly this method too finds its root in Skanda hora and finds elaboration in Briaht Prajaptya, and Satyacharya finds it from there only. The ideas propagated and popular in the name of Satyacharya is the concept clarified in the following Brihat Prajapatya quote itself. Ayurgrahamsakaistulyamanye kechana manvate Tungasthasya tu tadgrahyam trigunam vakragasya cha Vargottama swabhaga swakshetra drekkanagasya tal Dwigunam veerya heenaya horaya bhamsa sammitam Veeryonvitaya bhamsena rasina cha samam viduH Papodaye tu yal proktam neschanti haranantu tal (Brihat Prajaptya) [some others are of the opinion that longevity is equal to planetary Navamsaka. If longevity is provided by any planet in exaltation or retrograde then it should be multiplied by three. If longevity is provided by any planet in Vargottama, own Navamsaka, or own Drekkana then it should be multiplied by two. If Lagna is weak Longevity as indicated by Lagnamsaka should be added. If Lagna is strong; longevity as indicated by Lagna and Lagnamsaka should be added together and average should be taken. If malefic planets are present in lagna then this special rule does not apply, and (in whatever condition) the `predefined years' and `harana' (deduction of longevity) concepts and rules mentioned earlier (related to Pindayu system) does not apply] It is well evident that Satyacharya does not propose any rules of his own but only echoes the alternate opinion given in Brihat parajpatya. Now since the base and authentic nature of this system is clear, let us go back to our earlier doubts related to the complexity of the special rules itself and try to answer them. Answers to special rule complexity As mentioned earlier the special rule complexity comes from two factors – 1) In case of the first rule, how to determine which multiplication to apply when there is a possibility of multiple multiplications (i.e. for example a planet in vargottama and in exaltation)? 2) In case of the second rule, how to check whether lagna is strong or not? Strong compared to what? Compared to Lagnamsaka or what? It is well evident that these questions will come to the mind of anyone who tries to apply the Navamsaka calculation method, and certainly Mihira is no exception. The first complexity is expressed by Mihira himself along with the solution. Let us see what he says – SatyopadesaH pravarotra kindu kurvanti yogyam bahuvarganabhiH Acharyakantvatra bahukhnatayamekantu yadbhuri tadeva karyam (Brihat Samhita) [The opinion of Satyacharya is highly authentic. But people corrupt this method with multiple multiplications. But the real opinion and tradition that should be followed is different – i.e. when multiple multiplications comes under consideration, take/accept only the largest one (Apply multiplication only by the largest number and that also only once – and not multiple times for the same planet)] This is pretty straight forward and clear. For example if a planet in vargottama and in exaltation, people – who try to follow the first special rule - may erroneously first multiply the longevity provided by that planet with two (since the planet is in vargottama) and then that number with three.(since the planet is in exaltation). But this is wrong says Mihira. Such multiple multiplication is not required and corrupts the purity and simplicity of Satayacharya's advice. In the above case we only need to consider the largest multiple under consideration (i.e. 3) and do the multiplication only once. This means that for a planet in vargottama and in exaltation, we just need to multiply the longevity provided by that planet only once with three. Now coming to the complexity related to Lagnayu, the traditional advice is to add the Lagnayu and Lagnamsakayu ALWAYS and divide by two – whether lagna be strong or not. This is done so because while dealing with Lagnayu, Brihat prajaptya ascribes `considering longevity based on lagnamsaka alone' to `others', while `considering longevity based on both lagna and lagnamsaka and taking average' is expressed as `own' opinion. This gives and extra authenticity to the system of considering longevity indicated by both lagna and lagnamksaka - by adding longevity indicatd by both of them, and then taking average by dividing by two. This is the very reason for accepting this as the standard method as per tradition. OK. Thus all our theoretical doubts about this system are cleared and now we need to apply the same in some horoscope to understand whether it is in tune with truth or not. What use is a system and all the theoretical clarifications, if we are unable to use it effectively? So let us try it an example chart – for example that of Indira Gandhi. Navamsaka Ayurdaya – An example Let us take the chart of Smt. Indira Gandhi. DOB 19-11-1917, TOB 23.11 hrs, POB Allahabad, U.P state, India. She died on 31. 10. 1984. That means she died after 66 years 11 months and 12 days. That was a premature death, and therefore Navamsaka based Ayurdaya calculation should give a figure equal to this or more than this, since premature death does not come under Ayurdaya calculation. Ayurdaya calculation systems provide us only with the `natural maximum longevity' only. Death can happen, at the end of natural longevity, or since piety is over, or because of unnatural reasons (such as assassination, suicide, accident etc). Ayurdaya calculation is all about natural longevity (the maximum possible longevity for that native) and not about the death due to other reasons. Ayanamsa Used: Surya Siddhanta Ayanamsa (Chandrahari Ayanamsa) Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 26 Cn 38' 38.32" Asre 3 Cn Aq Sun - DK 3 Sc 23' 51.50" Anu 1 Sc Le Moon - GK 4 Cp 51' 17.99" USha 3 Cp Aq Mars - MK 15 Le 38' 46.04" PPha 1 Le Le Mercury - PK 12 Sc 30' 31.27" Anu 3 Sc Li Jupiter ® - PiK 14 Ta 15' 55.59" Rohi 2 Ta Ta Venus - AmK 20 Sg 16' 36.21" PSha 3 Sg Li Saturn - AK 21 Cn 03' 16.62" Asre 2 Cn Cp Rahu - BK 9 Sg 49' 55.87" Mool 3 Sg Ge Ketu 9 Ge 49' 55.87" Ardr 1 Ge Sg Gulika 28 Ta 39' 25.50" Mrig 2 Ta Vi Sl Planet Sputa Longevity (Decimal) Longevity (Y-M-D) Apply Special rule-1 & 2 1 Sun 07-03-23 04.015 04-00-05 08.03 2 Moon 09-04-51 10.455 10-05-14 20.91 3 Mars 04-15-38 04.69 04-08-08 09.38 4 Mercury 07-12-30 06.75 06-09-00 06.75 5 Jupiter 01-14-15 01.275 01-03-09 03.825 6 Venus 08-20-16 06.08 06-00-29 12.16 7 Saturn 03-21-03 09.315 09-03-23 18.63 8 Rahu 08-09-49 02.945 02-11-10 02.945 9 Ketu 02-09-49 08.945 08-11-10 08.945 10 Lagnayu = (Lagna + Lagnamsa)/2 03-26-38 (3.888 + 10.99)/2 = 07.439 07-05-08 0 Total Longevity 61.909 61-10-27 91.475 As per the application of special rule one - Sun is in own Navamsaka and should be multiplied by twoMars is in vargottama and should be multiplied by twoJupiter is in vargottama and retrograde. Vargottama should be multiplied by two and retrograde by three. Avoiding multiple multiplications we will multiply only with three.Venus is in own Navamsaka and should be multiplied by twoSaturn is in own Navamsaka and should be multiplied by twoNo planet is in own houseAs per parivritti traya Drekkana (P x 3), Moon is in own Drekkana, and should be multiplied by two As per the application of special rule two – Since there is a malefic in lagna, the whole of Longevity indicated by lagna (Lagnayu) gets dropped. Thus the result I get is that, her maximum longevity is 91.475, i.e. 91 years 5 months 21 months. This is just natural and expectable, since what Indira Gandhi underwent was an assassination (an unnatural death), that do not fall under this system of longevity calculation. Thus, on post-mortem analysis – Maximum longevity of the native as per Navamsaka Ayurdaya system = 91 years 5 months and 21 daysActual longevity experienced by the native prior to her assassination = 66 years 11 months and 12 days What should I conclude after this exercise? Should I conclude that, since the multiplication by two and three seems bit absurd and I should better neglect special rule one? No, I cannot do that. For example if I do that in the previous example then the maximum longevity will come around 61 years only, where as Indira lived upto 66 years of age.Should I conclude that, this is not much useful a method since the `maximum natural longevity' would be always greater than the `actual longevity' of the native? Yes, I may conclude so – but `maximum natural longevity' calculation has its own benefit since the actual longevity for that native would be always less than this only. One of the advantages I find with this method is that it is straight forward and simple and anyone with bit of interest in mathematics can calculate the `maximum natural longevity' using this method. Let us remember again that the `actual longevity' may not be equal to this, but would always be less than this only. Applying Harana rules Someone may ask, what if we apply the `Harana' (deduction of longevity years) rules to the above chart; If so can we get a near to the `actual longevity' value? OK. Let us try the same as well on an experimental basis. (Even though applying the same on Navamsaka Ayurdaya system is not supported by Rishi horas). 1) Drisyartha harana (Deductions for visible half) rule The major Harana (deduction of longevity) rule is based on the assumption that planets placed in the visible half (drisyartha – houses form 7 to 12), do not have full strength. Let us listen to the Brihat Jataka quote about the same – Sarvardha tricharana panchashashta bhagaH Ksheeyante vyayabhavanadasatsu vamam Satswardham hrasati tathaikarasigana- Mekamsam harati baleetyathaha satyaH (Brihat Jataka) [in anti-clockwise direction, for malefics placed in – 12th house – the whole longevity gets deducted, 11th house – half of the longevity gets deducted, 10th house – 1/3rd of the longevity gets deducted, 9th house – 1/4th of the longevity gets deducted, 8th house – 1/5th of the longevity gets deducted, 7th house – 1/6th of the longevity gets deducted, For benefics placed in – 12th house – 1/2nd of the longevity gets deducted, 11th house – 1/4th of the longevity gets deducted, 10th house – 1/6th of the longevity gets deducted, 9th house – 1/8th of the longevity gets deducted, 8th house – 1/10th of the longevity gets deducted, 7th house – 1/12th of the longevity gets deducted, says Satyacharya] Another corollary that is considered along with the above rule is that, if more than one planet is placed in same sign, then the `longevity deduction' for only the strongest planet among them should be applied. This is clear from the following Brihat Sounaka Hora quote – Ekarasisthayoreko bali harati netaraH Bhinnarasisthayoryoge dwavapyetau harishyataH (Brihat Sounaka Hora) [(During longevity calculation), If more than one planets are present in same sign, then deduction of longevity years (harana) should be done only for the strongest planet among them and not for others. Even if nearby if planets are in different signs, then harana rules should not be applied] The above longevity deduction rule (harana rule) as given by Brihat Jataka does not seems to be perfect, but still let us try to apply this rule to our example chart. In the example chart - Ketu a malefic is placed in 12th from lagna, and so the whole longevity provided by Ketu gets deducted. (91.475 - 08.945) = 82.53Jupiter a benefic planet is placed in 11th from lagna, and so 1/4th of the longevity provided by Jupiter gets deducted. i.e. 82.53 - 03.825/4 = 82.53-0.95625 = 81.57375. That is remaining longevity provided by Jupiter would be 03.825-0.95625 = 2.86875Moon a benefic planet is placed in 7th from lagna, and so 1/12th of the longevity provided by Moon should be deducted. i.e. 81.57375 - 20.91/12 = 87.57375 - 1.7425 = 79.83125. i.e. the remaining longevity provided by Moon would be 20.91 – 1.7425 = 19.1675 OK. After this much calculation, after the application of `drisyartha rule' for benefics and malefics given above, the `maximum longevity period' we get for our example chart is 79.83125 = 79 years 9 months 29 days. Still no where near the actual longevity experienced! 2) Applying the `major malefic in lagna' rule The `deduction for major malefic' rule applies only when Sun, Mars or Saturn is present in Lagna. The relevant Brihat Jataka quote reads as follows – Sarthoditodita navamsahatat samstad- Bhagoshtayuktasatasamkhya upaiti nasam Kroore vilagnasahite vidhina tvanena Soumyekshite dalamataH pralayam prayati (Brihat Jataka) [if Sun, Mars or Saturn is present in Lagna then, for the longevity provided by every planet the following calculation should be applied. Multiply the Longevity provided by the planet with Lagna navamsa count and then divide the result with 108. This result calculated separately for every planet should be deducted from the longevity provided by that planet. If a benefic aspects the (above said) malefic in lagna then, only the half of the above result should be deducted from longevity provided by that planet] Huh! Enough complexity introduced! Let me clarify the points one by one. First let us see why only Sun, Mars and Saturn is considered even though the word used in the above quote is `Kroora' (Cruel) for the planet under consideration. This is because of the presence of an authentic Badarayana hora quote related to the same, which clearly states– Suryangarakamandeshvekasmin lagnage bhavati haniH Vidhina tvanena soumyekshite dalam patayellabdhat (Badarayana hora) [if Sun, Mars or Saturn is present in lagna, then longevity deduction happens as per the above rule. If that malefic is aspected by a benefic then, half of that should be discarded and the remaining only should be deducted from the longevity of the planet] From this, it is well evident that the `deduction for major malefic' rule applies only when Sun, Mars or Saturn is present in Lagna. How does this rule impact our example chart? Certainly we have Saturn (a major malefic considered in the above quote) present in lagna, and certainly a benefic – Moon – aspect that Saturn. Thus the full complexity of the calculation is applicable to us! Damn! OK. Let us do it! If L is the longevity provided by a planet, and N is the Lagna Navamsa count, then as per the above rule – If a Sun, Mars or Saturn is present in lagna, then - Longevity = Longevity - Lx N/108 If the above malefic in lagna is aspected by a benefic then – Longevity = Longevity – [(L x N)/(2 x 108)] Let us apply this formula, in our example chart for all planets are derive the resultant longevity. Here N (the navamsa count of Lagna) is 9 (counting from Cancer to Pisces since Lagna sputa is 03-26-38) .. An example calculation for Sun would be - 8.03 - (8.03 x 9)/216 = 8.03 - 0.33458 = 7.6954. Calculation and corresponding result for all the planets are given below - Sl Planet Apply Special rule-1 & 2 Apply Drisyartha Harana Apply MM in Lagna rule 1 Sun 08.03 08.03 07.6954 2 Moon 20.91 19.1675 18.36885 3 Mars 09.38 09.38 08.9892 4 Mercury 06.75 06.75 6.46875 5 Jupiter 03.825 02.86875 2.7492 6 Venus 12.16 12.16 11.653 7 Saturn 18.63 18.63 17.85375 8 Rahu 02.945 02.945 2.8223 9 Ketu 08.945 0 0 10 Lagnayu = (Lagna + Lagnamsa)/2 0 0 0 Total 91.475 79.93125 76.6 3) Satru Kshetra Harana (Enemy house deduction) rule If a planet is placed in enemy house or combust some amount of longevity ascribed to it should be deducted. Deducting planetary longevity when placed in enemy house is termed `Satru Kshetra harana' and deducting planetary longevity while combust is called `Moudhya Harana'. Let us see the base quote regarding the same as presented by Mihira – Hitva vakram ripugrihagatair heeyate swatribhagaH Suryatschinnadyutishu tu dalam projcchya sukrarkaputrau (Brihat Jataka) [Except for Mars and planets in retrograde, for any planet placed in enemy house, 1/3rd of the longevity provided by that planet gets deducted. Except from Saturn, Venus, and Mercury, for any other combusted planet, 1/2nd of the longevity provided by the planet gets deducted] The following quote Sounaka Hora quote clarifies that, even for Mercury placed in same sign, Maudhya harana should not be considered. Sukramandau vinanyesham budhamapyekarasigam Suryocchinnagabhasteenam grahanam heeyate dalam (Sounaka Hora) [Apart from Saturn and Venus, for Mercury placed in same sign also `deduction for combustion' in longevity calculation should not be considered. For any other planet combusted half of the longevity provided by them gets deducted] The formula for `enemy house deduction' is – L = L – L x 1/3 (Where L stands for Longevity provided by the planet) The formula for `deduction for combustion' is – L = L – Lx 1/2 (Where L stands for Longevity provided by the planet) Let us see these two rules – of `enemy house deduction' (satru Kshetra harana) and `deduction for combustion' (Moudhya harana) applies to our example chart. In the given chart, as per `Satru Kshetra harana' rule – Jupiter is in enemy house, but since Jupiter is retrograde – deduction does not apply. Venus is in enemy house and thus deduction does apply. Thus longevity provided by Venus = 11.653 – (11.653/3) = 7.7687Saturn is in enemy house and thus deduction does apply. Thus longevity provided by Saturn = 17.85375 – (17.85375/3) = 11.9025 In the given chart, as per `Maudhya harana rule' – Only Mercury is combust. But since combust Mercury is placed in the same sign, `Moudhya harana' rule does not apply to Mercury in this case. Sl Planet Apply MM in Lagna rule Apply `enemy house deduction ` rule Apply `deduction for combustion' rule 1 Sun 07.6954 07.6954 07.6954 2 Moon 18.36885 18.36885 18.36885 3 Mars 08.9892 08.9892 08.9892 4 Mercury 6.46875 6.46875 6.46875 5 Jupiter 2.7492 2.7492 2.7492 6 Venus 11.653 7.7687 7.7687 7 Saturn 17.85375 11.9025 11.9025 8 Rahu 2.8223 2.8223 2.8223 9 Ketu 0 0 0 10 Lagnayu 0 0 0 Total 76.6 66.7645 66.7645 Thus finally the longevity arrived at for the said native is 66.7645 i.e. 66 years 9 months 5 days. Thus if harana rules are applied to the chart of Indira Gandhi – Maximum expected longevity = 66 years 9 months 5 days.Actual longevity = 66 years 11 months and 12 days That is excellent! How close we are! Note: At the end, what we have achieved? A lot of calculation, clarity about some of the ancient astrological concepts, and it seems that some more study is required on this with other example charts. I hope that, this could be a stepping stone for further study on this subject. == 0 == =====================Love and regards,Sreenadh , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Sh.Sreenadh ji, > I am highly thankful to you for sparing your valuable time on the Ayu. I am waiting for your next mail.> Love and regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dear All, Some extra rules that I may suggest for this method are - * Harana (deduction) should be done first and Bharana (Addition) second(and not otherwise). * Rahu and Ketu should be considered * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) the enmity of Rahu and Ketu with Ju, Mo, Su should be considered. * In Ra and Ke is in vargottama, then then " Swatungadi " longevity addition should be performed only for Rahu and not for Ketu. * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) Mars should not be exempted (deduction for enemy house should be applied for Mars as well, if it is placed in enemy house), but only retrograde planets. * Even if more than one planet is placed in a single house, then too all deductions - such as Satru kshetra harana, moudhya harana, drisyartha harana and amsayu harana - should be applied to all of them (and not just one - as some quotes points to). * If placed along with malefics, mercury should be treated as a malefic in drisyartha harana and deduction should be applied accordingly. If some of you find these rules useful then use them as well in Ayurdaya calculations - if you find this method useful. Love and regards, Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dear All, Those who are interested in statistical verification of astrology can apply this objective mathematical method in 100 authentic charts or so and check whether the success factor is more than the chance factor permits or not. Since the method is totally mathematical and mechanical, there is no chance of astrologer's intentions or psychic involvement corrupting the verification. If at least in 60% of the cases, the method successfully provided values near to or above the actual longevity then certainly this could be a great tool in scientific verification of astrology. Objective tools, methodologies and instances that allow " objective scientific verification " is very few in astrology. The only areas I could visualize are - * Longevity calculations (such as Navamsaka ayurdaya system) * Predicting moles in body parts based on planetary combination * Using chart for male/female verification - based on objective rules. There could be some other such areas as well. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear All, > Some extra rules that I may suggest for this method are - > * Harana (deduction) should be done first and Bharana (Addition) second(and not otherwise). > * Rahu and Ketu should be considered > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) the enmity of Rahu and Ketu with Ju, Mo, Su should be considered. > * In Ra and Ke is in vargottama, then then " Swatungadi " longevity addition should be performed only for Rahu and not for Ketu. > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) Mars should not be exempted (deduction for enemy house should be applied for Mars as well, if it is placed in enemy house), but only retrograde planets. > * Even if more than one planet is placed in a single house, then too all deductions - such as Satru kshetra harana, moudhya harana, drisyartha harana and amsayu harana - should be applied to all of them (and not just one - as some quotes points to). > * If placed along with malefics, mercury should be treated as a malefic in drisyartha harana and deduction should be applied accordingly. > If some of you find these rules useful then use them as well in Ayurdaya calculations - if you find this method useful. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 sh.Sreenad ji. Thanks for the pains you are taking for the Amshayu. I will try your suggestions and revert back. Love and Regards sreenand --- On Thu, 11/12/09, sreesog <sreesog wrote: > sreesog <sreesog > Re: Amshayu (Final version) > > Thursday, November 12, 2009, 10:14 AM > Dear All, > Some extra rules that I may suggest for this method are - > * Harana (deduction) should be done first and Bharana > (Addition) second(and not otherwise). > * Rahu and Ketu should be considered > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) > the enmity of Rahu and Ketu with Ju, Mo, Su should be > considered. > * In Ra and Ke is in vargottama, then then " Swatungadi " > longevity addition should be performed only for Rahu and not > for Ketu. > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) > Mars should not be exempted (deduction for enemy house > should be applied for Mars as well, if it is placed in enemy > house), but only retrograde planets. > * Even if more than one planet is placed in a single > house, then too all deductions - such as Satru kshetra > harana, moudhya harana, drisyartha harana and amsayu > harana - should be applied to all of them (and not > just one - as some quotes points to). > * If placed along with malefics, mercury should be treated > as a malefic in drisyartha harana and deduction should be > applied accordingly. > If some of you find these rules useful then use them > as well in Ayurdaya calculations - if you find this method > useful. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dear Kursija ji, If you try those suggestions in Rajiv Gandhi's chart you will find that the Amshayu calculation method gives 46 years itself as maximum longevity! Interesting! Love and regards, Sreenadh , " S.C. Kursija " <sckursija wrote: > > sh.Sreenad ji. > Thanks for the pains you are taking for the Amshayu. I will try your suggestions and revert back. > Love and Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji and friends, Those who are gone , they have gone. Now their data is good for research purposes and for learning through same. I appreciate the burden Sreenadhji has taken upon himself to reach some levels of palpable understanding in this longevity issue. In the meanwhile I would appreciate if Sreenadhji or someone else takes my case too and check the longevity. I promise I will not argue or comment on the methodology but accept whatever lease of Life is given to me as per their methods. (Yaar bhai log jindon ko bhi khush karo na. Madhubala aur Geeta Dutt sab chale gaye, hame batao hame kab jaana hai unke paas). My birth details once again. 28th June 1961 10.15am 16.45N 81-09E Eluru. Hope you will do this favour for me. (Ab jindagi mein bahut kuch lutf nahin bacha . Magar kuch pleasures poore karne baaki hain. I wish to go to Brazil first, and then Egypt and then Venice and many more places, and with a new companion alongside at every place I visit. HaHa. Now Dont feel zealous.) But on a serious note. Lets enjoy a longevity take on my chart.....if you are interested. Love n regards, Bhaskar. , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kursija ji, > If you try those suggestions in Rajiv Gandhi's chart you will find that the Amshayu calculation method gives 46 years itself as maximum longevity! Interesting! > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " S.C. Kursija " sckursija@ wrote: > > > > sh.Sreenad ji. > > Thanks for the pains you are taking for the Amshayu. I will try your suggestions and revert back. > > Love and Regards > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dear All, For the benefit of all who are interested in Navamsaka based longevity calculations, I have prepared an excel sheet. You can simply enter the relevant values and get the Amsayu calculated automatically. Hope those who want experiment with this method will enjoy it. Note: Please let me know, in case you find any mistake in those calculations. Love and regards,Sreenadh 1 of 1 File(s) Longevity.xls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji.You are suggesting to include nodes indasa calculations, this is based on your experience or ithad sanction of some past authority.In any case , if I apply Ansayurdaya on my case , it increase sfrom 59y2m28d to 71 y 0m 3days on including contribution of nodes .It is another matter that I already crossed 72 years.I hada major bypass surgery in 1994 at the age of 57 years 8 m.Thanks to modern advancement in heart surgery , otherwise,I must have gone long back.The ending period of 1st cycle indicate major health danger.There is lot of truth in these dasa systems , but we should not apply them literally .Regards,G. K. Goel From: sreesogDate: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:16:40 +0000 Re: Amshayu (Final version) Dear All, Those who are interested in statistical verification of astrology can apply this objective mathematical method in 100 authentic charts or so and check whether the success factor is more than the chance factor permits or not. Since the method is totally mathematical and mechanical, there is no chance of astrologer's intentions or psychic involvement corrupting the verification. If at least in 60% of the cases, the method successfully provided values near to or above the actual longevity then certainly this could be a great tool in scientific verification of astrology. Objective tools, methodologies and instances that allow "objective scientific verification" is very few in astrology. The only areas I could visualize are - * Longevity calculations (such as Navamsaka ayurdaya system) * Predicting moles in body parts based on planetary combination * Using chart for male/female verification - based on objective rules. There could be some other such areas as well. Love and regards, Sreenadh , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote: > > Dear All, > Some extra rules that I may suggest for this method are - > * Harana (deduction) should be done first and Bharana (Addition) second(and not otherwise). > * Rahu and Ketu should be considered > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) the enmity of Rahu and Ketu with Ju, Mo, Su should be considered. > * In Ra and Ke is in vargottama, then then "Swatungadi" longevity addition should be performed only for Rahu and not for Ketu. > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) Mars should not be exempted (deduction for enemy house should be applied for Mars as well, if it is placed in enemy house), but only retrograde planets. > * Even if more than one planet is placed in a single house, then too all deductions - such as Satru kshetra harana, moudhya harana, drisyartha harana and amsayu harana - should be applied to all of them (and not just one - as some quotes points to). > * If placed along with malefics, mercury should be treated as a malefic in drisyartha harana and deduction should be applied accordingly. > If some of you find these rules useful then use them as well in Ayurdaya calculations - if you find this method useful. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Dear Goel ji, First of all - //> There is lot of truth in these dasa systems , but we should not > apply them literally .// I agree with you on this completely. Even skanda while dealing with Ayur dasas state that " I am taking a big risk. Longevity is uncertain in all periods of time; it is very difficult to come to even a near by right conclusion " . If that is the opinion of even Skanda Deva, who are we to state that we can calculate somebody's longevity accurately or that some tools (like the Amasayu method) that we use would always be correct?!! No way! But yes, even after knowing that it is difficult to calculate longevity with accuracy, Skanda is not holding himself back in putting some effort into these methods and suggesting improvements on them. Since this being to so we too can use these tools to get an approximate awareness about one's longevity. As bhaskar ji puts it, it is another matter than our good and bad karma will have an effect on increasing or decreasing our destined longevity as well. Actually that is the very reason for longevity being uncertain (since free will is at work) and astrology DOES NOT force and say that destiny decides everything (it is not at all deterministic like Newtonian physics or Einsteinian relativity). So there is a chance always that we may live even after the longevity indicated by our chart is over, in some cases. Now let us come back to the initial questions put forward by you in the mail. //> You are suggesting to include nodes in dasa calculations, this is based on your experience or it had sanction of some past authority.// I would say there was neither sanction nor denial. Mihira DO NOT give us a list of planets that should be included in longevity calculations - neither or 7 nor of 9. Further he has mentioned used Rahu, Ketu extensively in his book as well. Therefore it was just natural to expect that Rahu-Ketu also should be included since the maximum longevity of human beings is around 100-108-120. Why? Because the calculation is based on expunging the multiples of 12 from planetary longitude and there are only 9 garhas considered in astrology. On a basic approach - * if we consider 7 planets only (except Rahu, Ketu) then 12 x 7 = 84 would be the general maximum longevity - A value no text suggest! * If we consider 9 planets (including Rahu, Ketu) then 12x 9 = 108 would be the general maximum longevity - a value well supported by Rishi horas. So it was/is just natural to know and understand that all the 9 planets (including Rahu, Ketu) should be considered. No explicit statement by Mihira is required to know this opinion of Sages and Mihira. Further even if one do not get such info from texts, it is easy to apply the same on some known charts and understand what is the correct approach - because a correct approach SHOULD give realistic values that are in tune with the truth, and not otherwise. It is well evident and clear that this method gives realistic values if only we consider and include Rahu and Ketu as well. Check it and you can see it if you consider the charts of people who already passed away. For me Nehru's, Indira's and Rajive's charts were the prime examples which confirmed this. Similarly the harana-bharana or bharana-harana confusion was also got corrected when applied in known charts, revealing the harana-bharana as suggested by ancient texts itself is the correct order to be used. So the point is when the ancient texts, logic and application in known charts etc are all considered together it is well evident that 9 planets (including Rahu, Ketu) should be used. Hope I have clarified my stands. //> In any case , if I apply Ansayurdaya on my case , it increase s > from 59y2m28d to 71 y 0m 3days on including contribution > of nodes .// So far so good. Anyway I will comment on this only after checking the same myself on that worksheet. To night I will do it and revert. //> It is another matter that I already crossed 72 years.I had > a major bypass surgery in 1994 at the age of 57 years 8 m. > Thanks to modern advancement in heart surgery , otherwise, > I must have gone long back.// OK. Yes, Thank God that we have our good friend among us even today. I wish you many more happy years sharing astrological wisdom with all. //> The ending period of 1st cycle indicate major health danger.// Could be - I don't know. I would suggest instead of further going to not so confirmed conclusions, let us check our calculations first and verify the longevity calculation result in some more known charts. Love and regards, Sreenadh , gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji. > You are suggesting to include nodes in > dasa calculations, this is based on your experience or it > had sanction of some past authority. > In any case , if I apply Ansayurdaya on my case , it increase s > from 59y2m28d to 71 y 0m 3days on including contribution > of nodes . > It is another matter that I already crossed 72 years.I had > a major bypass surgery in 1994 at the age of 57 years 8 m. > Thanks to modern advancement in heart surgery , otherwise, > I must have gone long back. > The ending period of 1st cycle indicate major health danger. > There is lot of truth in these dasa systems , but we should not > apply them literally . > Regards, > G. K. Goel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 DEAR SREENADH JI.some times back I have prepared a paper on Ansayurdasa and its antardasa.The is attached for your ready reference.G. K. Goel From: sreesogDate: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:44:54 +0000 Re: Amshayu (Final version) Dear All, Some extra rules that I may suggest for this method are - * Harana (deduction) should be done first and Bharana (Addition) second(and not otherwise). * Rahu and Ketu should be considered * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) the enmity of Rahu and Ketu with Ju, Mo, Su should be considered. * In Ra and Ke is in vargottama, then then "Swatungadi" longevity addition should be performed only for Rahu and not for Ketu. * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) Mars should not be exempted (deduction for enemy house should be applied for Mars as well, if it is placed in enemy house), but only retrograde planets. * Even if more than one planet is placed in a single house, then too all deductions - such as Satru kshetra harana, moudhya harana, drisyartha harana and amsayu harana - should be applied to all of them (and not just one - as some quotes points to). * If placed along with malefics, mercury should be treated as a malefic in drisyartha harana and deduction should be applied accordingly. If some of you find these rules useful then use them as well in Ayurdaya calculations - if you find this method useful. Love and regards, Sreenadh New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. 1 of 1 File(s) ANSAYUR DASA.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Dear Goel ji, Thanks for the documents. I will go through them. Love and regards, Sreenadh , gopal krishna goel <g.k.goel wrote: > > > DEAR SREENADH JI. > some times back I have prepared a paper on Ansayur > dasa and its antardasa. > The is attached for your ready reference. > > > G. K. Goel > > > > > sreesog > Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:44:54 +0000 > Re: Amshayu (Final version) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > Some extra rules that I may suggest for this method are - > > * Harana (deduction) should be done first and Bharana (Addition) second(and not otherwise). > > * Rahu and Ketu should be considered > > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) the enmity of Rahu and Ketu with Ju, Mo, Su should be considered. > > * In Ra and Ke is in vargottama, then then " Swatungadi " longevity addition should be performed only for Rahu and not for Ketu. > > * During Satru kshetra harana (deduction for enemy house) Mars should not be exempted (deduction for enemy house should be applied for Mars as well, if it is placed in enemy house), but only retrograde planets. > > * Even if more than one planet is placed in a single house, then too all deductions - such as Satru kshetra harana, moudhya harana, drisyartha harana and amsayu harana - should be applied to all of them (and not just one - as some quotes points to). > > * If placed along with malefics, mercury should be treated as a malefic in drisyartha harana and deduction should be applied accordingly. > > If some of you find these rules useful then use them as well in Ayurdaya calculations - if you find this method useful. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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