Fw: PVR Ji Vs SR Ji

November 10, 2009

FYI--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:----- Forwarded Message ----Narasimha PVR Rao <pvrvedic astrology ; JyotishWritings Cc: Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 3:49:59 PM Re: Graha Arudha

Dear Rohiniranjan and others,I do hold independent views in several areas, but what you read in my book regarding graha arudhas is not my independent view.What I wrote about graha arudhas was what Pt Rath explicitly taught me then. The teachings were modified by him in later years, as happened with some other topics.* * *I was first taught explicitly by Pt Rath that bhava arudhas show the world's view of the native and graha arudhas show native's view of the world. That is what went into my book.Next, I was taught explicitly by Pt Rath that bhava arudhas show tangible inanimate objects related to a bhava, while graha arudhas of bhava lords show tangible "animate/intelligen t" persons related to a bhava.What Rafal quoted from his "guruji" below, who according to him has the same opinion as Pt Rath, is yet another view. It says graha arudhas show how world sees you (but you may not be conscious of it) and

bhava arudhas show how you consciously project yourself for the world to see you.* * *In the beginning, I assumed that whatever was taught by Pt Rath was knowledge tried and tested in a parampara for centuries. That is why I confidently put it in a book without questioning it or doing my own research.As time progressed, I found many holes and leaps of faith in his logic, many contradictions and inconsistencies. I kept giving him the benefit of doubt and kept assuming that there was something subtle that I was missing or he was holding some things back for future as I was not ready. Gradually, it became clear to me that he was simply making a lot of things up and reinventing himself as he went on.I discovered over the time that what I was taught was a mixture of: (1) a few gems from tradition that work nicely, (2) a lot of half-baked knowledge with roots in tradition but

corrupted to

varying degrees, and, (3) many wayward concepts thought of by an unreliable intuition in impulses and shared hastily without much balanced validation.It took me several years to get a grip on the situation and convince myself of my assessment. It took me several more years to do something about it, i.e. take conflicting teachings and see which ones make sense, reconcile with the words of rishis and do independent research.My book was written a decade ago when I was at the *very beginning* of this process of evolution. So there is a lot in it that I do not agree with anymore. My apologies for misleading.* * *Having weighed various of Pt Rath's teachings on this issue, contemplated on this issue and experimented over the years, my view in this matter is as follows.Bhava means that which is there (from the Sanskrit root - bhoo, i.e. to be). Graha means that which grabs [the consciousness] . Pada means an a

symbol or a word or a tangible expression.Bhavas (houses) show various *inanimate* things, objects and situations. Grahas (planets) are the *animation* and intelligence (feelings, emotions, thoughts, motives etc) that interact with bhavas, enliven them and drive them to give the fruits of previous karmas. This animation/intellige nce is what grabs various inanimate things/situations and animates them.Arudha pada of a bhava shows how those inanimate things and situations manifest externally in a tangible way. Arudha pada of a graha shows how the intelligence and animation (feelings, emotions, thoughts etc) represented by that planet manifest externally in a tangible way.For example, 4th house shows vehicles and happiness from vehicles. The facility to move is an inanimate situation shown by 4th house. The actual physical vehicle is a tangible/external inanimate object that reflects this. So A4 (bhava arudha pada of 4th house)

shows it. The 4th lord shows the [internal] attitude towards the facility to move [and vehicle]. It shows the feeling and thinking with which one approaches the situation represented by the 4th house. How happy or sad or proud or ashamed or attached one feels towards one's vehicle, for example, is seen from the 4th lord. Finally, the feeling and thinking with which one *seems* to the world to approach the situation represented by the 4th house is is seen from the graha arudha of the 4th lord. How happy or sad or proud or ashamed or attached one seems to the world to feel towards one's vehicle is seen from it.Lagna shows the very being, arudha lagna shows how one's being (and conduct) comes across, lagna lord shows the thoughts, motives and intelligence driving one's being and graha arudha of lagna lord shows how the world views the thoughts, motives and intelligence driving one's being.* * *Let me take the Hitler example asked by

you. AL is in Cn with Saturn in it and Mars aspecting it. His conduct comes across as being sensitive (Cn), unhappy (Saturn) and determined (Mars).Graha arudha of lagna lord Venus may be taken by some in Cp (Li is in 7th from Venus. Taking 7th from Li, we get Ar. Because 1st/7th from the planet are not allowed, take the 10th from Ar and land in Cp). However, Parasara's directive is to take the stronger sign owned by a planet. He did not define two graha arudhas of a planet based on the two signs owned (Ta and Li for Venus here), though JHora gives that also (select "Choose a view" in the pop-up menu on a chart and select "Dual graha arudha view" to get 2 graha arudhas for planets owning 2 signs). As per Parasara's definition, we take Ta as the stronger sign owned by Venus and get graha arudha of Venus is in Ge.Rahu in the graha arudha of lagna lord means that the world sees Rahu-like *motives and thinking* behind his personality and

conduct.* * *Let us take some more examples.George W Bush had AL in Sc with Ketu in it. His personality and conduct comes across as being secretive (Sc) and erratic (Ketu) to some and determined (Sc) and spiritual (Ketu) to some (BTW, Ketu is strong). His lagna lord's graha arudha is in Ta with Rahu in it. Again world sees Rahu-like motives and thinking driving his personality and conduct.Ramakrishna Paramahamsa had AL and the graha arudha of lagna lord in Ge with Jupiter in it. His conduct and personality, as well as motives and thinking behind it, were seen to be influenced by Ge (idealistic, articulate) and Jupiter (teacher, wisdom).Swami Vivekananda had AL in Le and with Mercury and Venus having 3/4th aspect on it. He came across as a regal (Le), learned, eloquent (Mercury) and charming (Venus) person. Graha arudha of lagna lord was Aq, aspected fully by Jupiter. The motivations and thinking behind his

personality were seen by the world to be influenced by Aq (philosopher) and Jupiter (teacher, wisdom). However, it is the graha arudha of AK that is the strongest reference in his chart (stronger than lagna, lagna lord, AL and graha arudha of lagna lord). Graha arudha of AK Sun is in Ar with Mars in it. While lagna lord shows the thinking, motivation and intelligence behind one's being and conduct, AK soul and its mission. Graha arudha of AK shows how the world views one's soul and its mission. Taking the graha arudha of AK as reference, we have Guru-Mangala yoga, yoga of 1st and 9th lords, on 1st/7th. It shows that the world views him as a soul who came to lead (Mars) a dharmik mission (9th lord Jupiter).JFK had AL in Sc aspected fully by Sun, Venus and Jupiter. His personality and conduct may be seen as being determined and inspirational (Sc), generous (Sun), charming (Venus in own sign) and wise (Jupiter). Graha arudha of lagna lord was in Le

with Moon in it. World may see some regal (Le) and compassionate (Moon) motives and thoughts driving his personality.Best regards,Narasimhavedic astrology, "rohinicrystal" <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote:>> Very interesting indeed, Mr. Gendarz!> > Could I impose upon your valuable time and request you to explain that using Hitler's chart?> > Thanks in advance for your kindness!> > RR_,> > vedic astrology, RafaÃ…â€š Gendarz <starsuponme@ > wrote:> >> > /*hraum krishnaya namah*/> > Dear

Rohinranjan,> > > Small correction to make it clear: Sanjayji and my Guruji has different> opinions than PVR Narasimhaji on various matters regarding Jyotish.> > > > Yes, my Guruji and Sanjayji often has different opinions on various > > matters.> > > > This comes from my Guruji:> > > > * graha arudha shows how other see you and you may be not concious> > about it> > * arudha pada shows how you project yourself in the society - which> > often is seen like that by others in consequence - this is fully> > concious.> > > > These are very shallow definitions and there is much more when it comes >

> to graha arudha and arudha lagna. Graha arudhas are analysed to see > > Lagna of our friends, enemies and also beside many other things to time > > the demise.> > > > In my example my Lagnesh is Budha in forth house (mithuna lagna) which > > makes Arudha sitting in forth house (matri bhava) in Kanya. Grahaarudha > > is in the seventh house with Pisaca yoga (Ma/Ke) in seventh house > > (vivaha bhava).> > > > It means that I project myself as writer and I think I do this in very > > peaceful way (Budha = ahimsa) but often people criticize me for being > > too harsh or argumentative which is the quality of Mangal being in graha > > arudha of Lagnadhipati.> > > > This way the karma works.> > > > > > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > SJC Jyotish Guru> >

------------ --> > /*Consultations & Pages*> > http://rohinaa. com> > rafal@> > starsuponme@ /> > > > > > rohinicrystal pisze:> > > > > >> > > Hmm... Mr. Gendarz: What you wrote sounds opposite to what PVR wrote > > > in his Integrated Astrology!> > >> > > He described Graha Arudha as being the way the nativity views the > > > different things, so Graha Arudha of Lagnesh will 'show' or describe > > > how the nativity sees him/herself, whereas, the arudha of lagna > > > (house) will show how others perceive the Nativity.> > >> > > Maybe, that is what you meant or perhaps with time, the implications > > > have gotten modified!> > >> > >

Please

clarify. Thanks!> > >> > > Rohiniranjan> > >> > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com>, RafaÃƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å¡ Gendarz > > > <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > > /*hraum krishnaya namah*/> > > > Dear Lalitha,> > > >> > > > Just like the arudha of houses are the external manifestation of bhava,> > > > graha arudha shows the point where the planet will show the> > > > manifestation. For example graha arudha of lagnesh will show how > > > other's> > > > percieve the native, so its like the traces which stays after some> > > > action is done by the actual Lagnadhipati.> > > >> > > >> > > > Regards,> > >

> Rafal Gendarz> > > > SJC Jyotish Guru> > > > ------------ --> > > > /*Consultations & Pages*> > > > http://rohinaa. com <http://rohinaa. com>> > > > rafal@> > > > starsuponme@ ... /> > > >> > > >> > > > Lalitha Vuppaladadiyam pisze:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Aum Namo Bhagavathe Vaasudevaya> > > > >> > > > > Poojya Gurujis,> > > > >> > > > > Can anybody please explain what is meant by Graha Arudha?> > > > >> > > > > Thank you> > > > > Best Regards> > > > > lalitha

v>

> > > >> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> > > > > <pvr% 40charter. net>> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@ <pvr% 40charter. net>>> > > > > [vedic astrology] The 12th from AK and 9th from AK-arudha> > > > > JyotishWritings > > > <JyotishWrit ings%40grou ps.com>> > > > > <JyotishWrit ings%40grou ps.com>,> > > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic- astrology% 40. com> <vedic- astrology% > > > 40. com>> > > > > Cc: > > > <JyotishGrou p%40. com> <JyotishGrou

> > > p%40. com>> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 10:12 PM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Namaste friends,> > > > >> > > > > I sent a writeup titled "On Seeing Deities from the 12th from> > > > > Karakamsa" with many examples sometime back. I reproduced that > > > writeup> > > > > at the end of this email for easy reference.> > > > >> > > > > The enclosed critique on that writeup was posted by Pt Rath on > > > sohamsa> > > > > list recently and it was forwarded to me by a friend.> > > > >> > > > > > Ramakrishna> > > > > >> > > > > > Therefore the theory of narasimha is wrong. Now

to prove himself> > > > > > right he has to somehow define a new theory of Atmakaraka. Now as> > > > > > per Narasimha Atmakaraka Theory, another planet other than Rahu> > > > > > becomes AK. However, even then we do not have the Moon indicating> > > > > > the Ista devata.> > > > >> > > > > I clearly wrote (see the article at the end): "In the case of> > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, AK Rahu is in Cp in D-20."> > > > >> > > > > Pt Rath missed the explicitly stated fact that I also took Rahu as AK> > > > > and not "another planet other than Rahu" as he *imagined* above. Pt> > > > > Rath also missed the explicitly stated fact that I count houses> > > > > anti-zodiacally from Rahu. Pt Rath missed the fact that I do not

try> > > > > to see the trees without seeing the forest first and I do not look > > > for> > > > > dasa mahavidyas or dasavatara lists and use the basic list of > > > Parasara.> > > > >> > > > > Given the factual errors in attributing things to me above, it is> > > > > clear that Pt Rath proceeded to critique my views without reading > > > them!> > > > >> > > > > * * *> > > > >> > > > > Criticizing someone's view without reading it properly (let alone> > > > > giving it due consideration! ) and based on one's own > > > *imagination* of> > > > > what the other person is saying, demonstrates a *desperation* to> > > > > criticize.> > > > >> > > >

> * * *> > > > >> > > > > Sarada Mata's Moon is not in Ge in D-20, but in Ta, if one uses > > > Lahiri> > > > > ayanamsa or Jagannatha ayanamsa.> > > > >> > > > > Pt Rath said that "Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" is the "ishta devata" of> > > > > Vivekananda. But my view is that Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is his guru.> > > > > Many Hindu saints explicitly worship guru with a mantra. But that > > > does> > > > > not make guru their "ishta devata".> > > > >> > > > > Vivekananda saw Kaali as a small girl throughout the second half of> > > > > his life, talked to her as a person and was guided by her. He said he> > > > > stopped seeing her a few days before leaving his body. If that does> > > >

> not make her his ishta devata, I do not know what will!> > > > >> > > > > * * *> > > > >> > > > > Regarding "Narasimha Atmakaraka Theory", Parasara explicitly gave the> > > > > criteria to decide when to use 7 chara karakas and when to use 8 > > > chara> > > > > karakas. Both KN Rao group that uses 7 chara karakas always and Pt> > > > > Rath group that uses 8 chara karakas in human charts always are in> > > > > violation of Parasara's explicit teaching.> > > > >> > > > > Narasimha made an effort to understand and share the understanding> > > > > (http://vedicastrolo ger.org/articles /c_karaka. pdf). His view > > > may or> > > > > may

not

be perfect, but it is closer to Parasara's teaching.> > > > >> > > > > * * *> > > > >> > > > > > They established an important ashrama for spirituality (dharma, Sg)> > > > >> > > > > Parasara asked to see the deity one worships from the 12th from AK's> > > > > amsa and NOT what one "esablishes" . Pt Rath is trying to deviate > > > from> > > > > Parasara and see everything from the 12th from AK!> > > > >> > > > > In my view, dasamsa is the chart for one's activities and> > > > > accomplishments ("mahatphalam" is seen in D-10, according to> > > > > Parasara). AK shows the soul and the *graha arudha* of AK should show> > > > > how the soul manifests to the world. After all, one's mission or>

> > > > achievement is an attribute of the *manifestation* of one's soul to> > > > > the world. The 9th house from the graha arudha of AK in D-10 could> > > > > indicate what the world views as a major mission (dharma/duty) of> > > > > one's soul.> > > > >> > > > > Vivekananda and Sarada Mata had graha arudha of AK in Cn in D-10. The> > > > > 9th was in Pisces showing establishing Vedanta and other knowledge of> > > > > rishis. As another example, graha arudha of AK in Aurobindo's D-10 is> > > > > in Ar. The 9th from there has Sg with Ketu in it, showing> > > > > establishment of dharma and Vedic knowledge. As another example, > > > graha> > > > > arudha of AK in Ramana Maharshi's D-10 is in Sc. The 9th house> > > > >

contains exalted Jupiter and shows teaching sublime Vedic truths.> > > > > Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati had graha arudha of AK in Li and the> > > > > 9th again had Jupiter in Ge, showing establishment and lecturing of> > > > > Vedic knowledge.> > > > >> > > > > All these saints have Jupiter involved. As a comparison, see other> > > > > kinds of charts. Bill Gates has AK Saturn in Cn, his graha arudha in> > > > > Ar and the 9th has Mercury (knowledge, communications and computing).> > > > > Adolf Hitler has AK Venus in Sg, his graha arudha in Li and the 9th> > > > > from it has Sun (power). Composer A.R. Rahman (of Jai ho fame) has AK> > > > > Sun in Cn, his graha arudha in Ta (empty) and its lord Venus exalted> > > > > (music and artistic

creativity).> > > > >> > > > > Thus, the mission and what one achieves and establishes in one's life> > > > > may be better seen from the 9th from the graha arudha of AK in D-10,> > > > > than from the 12th house from AK in navamsa or vimsamsa.> > > > >> > > > > When we extrapolate things not mentioned by rishis, we need to be> > > > > intelligent and consistent.> > > > >> > > > > Best regards,> > > > > Narasimha> > > > >> > > >

> > sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@ ...> > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Narasimha Theory #1: Ista devata is to be seen from the Vimsamsa> > > > > instead of the Navamsa chart> > > > > >> > > > > > Ramakrishna> > > > > >> > > > > > The arguments given were the charts of Sri Ramakrishna besides > > > others -> > > > > >> > > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa' s AK Rahu is in Cp in D-9 and Sun> > > > > (Raama/Maatangi) is alone in 12th owned by Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa) .> > > > > Pt Sanjay Rath once argued with me that Lord Rama (Sun) is> > > > > Ramakrishna' s ishta devata and tried to justify it alluding to > > > things>

> > > > from Ramakrishna' s childhood. He also said that Tara (Jupiter) is> > > > > Ramakrishna' s ishta devata, because the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar> > > > > temple was called "Bhava Taarini" (one who makes one cross the> > > > > material world).> > > > > >> > > > > > Let us examine the Vimsamsa and Navamsa charts> > > > > >> > > > > > In both the charts the atmakaraka Rahu is in Capricorn and the 12th> > > > > house in both the charts is the same with the difference being that> > > > > the Sun in Sagittarius is in the 12H from Karakamsa in D9 while the> > > > > 12H from karakamsa in D20 is empty. How does the 12H from karakamsa> > > > > show Kaali?> > > > > >> > > > > >

Therefore the theory of narasimha is wrong. Now to prove himself> > > > > right he has to somehow define a new theory of Atmakaraka. Now as per> > > > > Narasimha Atmakaraka Theory, another planet other than Rahu becomes> > > > > AK. However, even then we do not have the Moon indicating the Ista > > > devata.> > > > > >> > > > > > Understanding Parashara is another cup of tea.> > > > > >> > > > > > In Vimsamsa, the *form* of the devata that one loves will come into> > > > > the picture. Ramakrishna loved Kaali as this is indicated by the > > > *Moon> > > > > in Lagna in Aquarius*. This was His upaasita devata (Upasana or> > > > > penance deity). We can also say that as the Moon (in Aq = Kaali) > > > joins>

> > > > the 9th Lord, this devata form was associated with a temple.> > > > > >> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =====> > > > > >> > > > > > Sri Sarada Ma> > > > > >> > > > > > In the chart of Sri Sarada Ma, the atmakaraka Moon is in > > > Sagittarius> > > > > navamsa. The ista devata is seen in the 12th house Scorpio which is> > > > > empty and its lord Ketu joins AK Moon. Sri Sarada Ma has said that > > > she> > > > > is *Bagala* [this is Her statement]. This is seen from the energy of> > > > > Scorpio brought by Ketu to the AK Moon.> > > > > >> > > > > > However, Mercury also conjoins the AK Moon and the Ista planet

Ketu> > > > > thereby indicating Sodasi (Tripura sundari). Sri Ramakrishna saw Her> > > > > as Sodasi and also worshipped Her as such. Therefore it is clear that> > > > > Sri Sarada Ma is a dual manifestation of both Sri Bagalamukhi and Sri> > > > > Tripurasundari and these are Her ista devata.> > > > > >> > > > > > Apply narasimha Theory. The AK Moon is in Gemini Vimsamssa and the> > > > > 12th house is Taurus indicating the Ista devata as Lakshmi. > > > Definitely> > > > > wrong approach.> > > > > >> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========> > > > > ========= ========> > > > > >> > > > > > Swami Vivekananda> > > > > >>

> > > > > In the chart of Swami Vivekanada, the Atmakaraka Sun is in> > > > > Sagittarius Navamsa and the 12H from it is Scorpio with Jupiter in it> > > > > indicating Shiva/Guru as Ista devata.> > > > > >> > > > > > Swami Vivekananda worshipped Thakur with the mantra *om hriiM namo> > > > > bhagavate raamakrishnaaya* [see the first letters of each line of> > > > > Ramakrishna stotra, the mantra is hidden in there]. Thakur > > > ramakrishna> > > > > was His Ista devata and was Shiva for Him, protector, teacher and> > > > > everything.> > > > > >> > > > > > Applying Narasimha AK Vimsamsa theory, the Sun is in Pisces and 12H> > > > > is having Rahu and Ketu and giving me arguments like Durga and > >

> ganesha> > > > > as Ista for Him is not going to work.> > > > > >> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========> > > > > ========= ======> > > > > >> > > > > > How God/Ista devata helps> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In the chart of Sri Ramakrishna, the Ista Devata Sun is in> > > > > Sagittarius navamsa ...both the two souls who made the Ramakrishna> > > > > Mission happen - Swami Vivekanada and Sarada ma, had AK in > > > Sagittarius> > > > > navamsa.> > > > > >> > > > > > They established an important ashrama for spirituality (dharma, Sg)> > > > > >> > > > > > --- End

forwarded message ---

November 11, 2009

Pranams,// My book was written a decade ago when I was at the *very beginning* of

this process of evolution. So there is a lot in it that I do not agree

with anymore. My apologies for misleading//.Alas!Soorya namaskaram after vision loss .May be late is better than never... whether unsold books with -drawn from market?--- On Tue, 10/11/09, Sreenadh OG <sreesog wrote:Sreenadh OG <sreesog Fw: PVR Ji Vs SR Ji"AIA" Tuesday, 10 November, 2009, 5:26 PM

FYI--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ > wrote:----- Forwarded Message ----Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>vedic astrology; JyotishWritingsCc: Mon, November 9, 2009 3:49:59 PM Re: Graha Arudha