[VRI] There are no Mangal, Shanir etc. planets in the Vedas!

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Jyotirved have not read the Puranas and the Vedas. Of course even if he reads

the Vedas now  he will not understand it as he thinks that the Vedas must say

each and everything  very lucidly such that even a dim-witted person should

understand it as he thinks that the Vedas must not tell anything indirectly.. He

can  say that such and such things are not there in the Veda as he has not read

the Vedas himself through any Vedic guru / scholar and nobody also had told him

these t5hings from the Veda. If you tell him about his ignorance then he will

ask you to prove it by giving the references from the Vedas so that he can learn

it. He does not know by which name Mangal and Shukra are mentioned in Veda and

wants to learn. He must have the humility first and then I am sure some vedic

scholar will definitely tell him that.  He thinks that Shukra must be mentioned

as  Shukra only. He also thinks that the Mangal must be mentioned as Mangal

only in the Veda.

Let us hope in his next birth he will have the required humility and desire to

learn these truths.

 

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:

 

jyotirved <jyotirved

[VRI] There are no Mangal, Shanir etc. planets in the Vedas!

indian_astrology_group_daily_digest

Cc: hinducalendar , , " 'subash

razdan' " <subashrazdan

Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:42 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Astroveda,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

< I am

pasting below translation of 4 Mantras related to Angirasas(Future Mars) from

Samveda >

 

Regarding the meaning of doubtful Sanskrit words, I always consult

" shabdakalpadrumah " . 

It is the ultimate authority since it gives all the required references

also.  It is a work of five vols. published by Rashtriya Sanskrit

Samsthan, 56-57A, Institutional Area, Janakppuri, New Delhi, and is priced

extremely low, perhaps less than Rs. 2000.  There is another work named

" Vachaspatyam " by Vachaspati Mishra, the famous commentator on Brahma-Sutra.

That work  also has been published by the same institution.  That was out

of stock for some time and maybe it is available now.

 

The meaning of

" Angira " as given is Shabdakalpadruma is, " munivisheshah. 

sai chai brahmano mukhajjatah.  tasya bharya kardama muni kanya shradhha.

putrah utathya.... " which means, " A  particular munih, who was

born from the mouth of  Brahma.  His wife was named shradha, who was the

daughter of kardama munih.... "

 

Amarakosha has

given the synonyms of Mars as, “angarakah kujo bhaumo lohitango

maheesutahâ€.  There is no mention of Angirasa in these synonyms either. 

In fact, Amarkosha has not included the word angiarasa in the kosha at all!  

Maybe some people are confusing Angarakah as Angirasa!

 

As per Monier-Williams,

“Angirasa---an enemy of Vishunu in his incarnation of Parshuramaâ€,

whereas “Angiras is the name of a Rishi, author of the hymns of RV, ix,

of a code of laws and of a treatise on astronomy; he is considered as one of

the seven r ishis of the first manvantaraâ€.  Monier-Williams has said

further, “In astronomy he is the planet Jupiter (and not Mars!) and a star

in Ursa Majorâ€.  He has, however, not given any references for the same. 

And it is a moot point as to how someone can be the planet Brihaspati and also

a star in a far off constellation simultaneously!

 

According to

Monier-Williams again, “Angiras are the priests who by using the magical

formulae of the Atharva Veda, protect the sacrifice against the effects of

inauspicious

accidentsâ€.

 

" Venah " .. " prajapatih,

iti unadikoshah. prithurajapita yatha markandeye. deva visheshah iti

nighantuh.  ....venah kantah etat sanjyo madyamasthano devah...tadbahashye

sayanah.  yajnyah iti nighantuh.  medhavee it nighantuh.  ...venah

kamaneeyo medhave va " .

 

Thus Venah is a

synonym of prajapatih as per unadikoshah.  Vena was the father of Prithu,

since as per the Puranas, he was a very wicked king and was killed by curse of

brahmins.  They then churned his body out of which king Prithu is said to

have emerged.  It is said that Prithivi was named after king Prithu. 

Venah is a name of a deva as per Sayana Acharya.  Venah also means

intelligent as per nighantu " .

 

According to

Monier-Williams, “Venah---name of a divine being of teh middle region. 

Also applied to sun, prajapatih and a gandharva.  The name of  a rjarshi or

royal rishih said to have perished through irreligious conduct and want of

submissiveness

to Brahmins., founder of the race of nishadas and dhivaras.â€

 

Thus Venah has

absolutely nothing to do with the dead and wandering body known as planet Venus

in Greco-Chaldean astrology, which some people embrace these days as “Vedic

jyotishâ€.

 

Brihaspati:  It

is the famous Devta, who is prayed to at every function in the following  two

shantipathah

 

“svasti

na indro vridhashravah, svasti no poosha vishva-vedah, svasti nas tarkshyo

arishta nemih, svasti no brihaspatir dadatuâ€.

 

Here Brihaspati

has been clubbed with Indira, the king of gods, Poosha, the omniscient, Garuda,

the  “trouble shooterâ€,

 

In the

following mantra also, Brihaspati has been clubbed with Mitrah, Varunah, Aryama,

and Vishnu.

 

“sham no

mitrah sham varunah, sham no bhavatu aryama. Sham no indro brihaspatir, shamno

vishnur urkramahâ€

 

Thus it is one

the deities of the Vedas and has nothing to do with the Greek/Babylonian planet

Jupiter, who has been hugged by “Vedic jyotishis†as “devanam

guruh birhaspatihâ€.

 

<> Please

let me know how Brihaspati have been used in VJ...>

 

 

 

 

 

There is no

mention of Brihaspati in the VJ. 

 

Thus as seen

above, Angirasa and Venah and Brihaspati are  not inanimate wandering bodies

but

are Vedic munis or deities etc.

 

We can thus

safely conclude that there are no Mangal, Shukra and Shani etc. planets in the

Vedas, or the VJ etc.

 

< My point

is VEDIC ppl were knowing about the planets and information of those planets

went to Mesopotamia and Babylonia through AVESTA and than to Egypt and

GREECE...>

 

It has become a

fad these days to claim that even the useless and most unreliable “art of

predictions†also was expounded by the  Vedic seers to start with and

then it went to other countries!  We are doing actually the greatest injustice

to the Vedic Seers by attributing such non-sense to them.

 

< And on the

same theme archaeologist have found some tablets(basically in the region of

Assyrian) in Babylonia related to astrology.>

 

Thank God, they

found it in Babylonia and not in India!  I would have to hang my head in shame

then  if the real Vamadevas had also been practicing predictive gimmicks in the

name of “Vedic astrologyâ€.  As on date, I can proudly claim that I

belong to a race of Rishis who never had any faith in such fads as

phalita-jyotisha or hasta-samudrika etc.

 

Jai Shri Ram

 

A K Kaul

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- In

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Astro.Vedas@ @ wrote:

 

>

 

> Dear Shri Kaulji,

 

>

 

> I am pasting below translation of 4 Mantras related to Angirasas(Future

Mars) from Samveda :-

 

>

 

>

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* *********

********* ********* ********* ********* ***

 

> Hence have these men gone up on high and mounted to the heights of heaven:

 

> On! conquer on the path by which Angirasas travelled to the skies!

 

>

 

> So, Angiras, we make thee strong with fuel and with holy oil.

 

> Blaze high, thou youngest of the Gods!

 

>

 

> O Agni, the Angirasas discovered thee what time thou layest hidden,

fleeing back from wood to wood.

 

> Thou by attrition art produced as conquering might, and men, O Angiras,

call thee the Son of Strength.

 

>

 

> What is the praise wherewith, O God, Angiras, Agni, Son of Strength,

 

> We, after thine own wish and thought,

 

>

 

>

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* *********

********* ********* ********* ********* ***

 

>

 

> My point is VEDIC ppl were knowing about the planets and information of

those planets went to Mesopotamia and Babylonia through AVESTA and than to

Egypt and GREECE...

 

>

 

> All things have reached over there from here related to astronomy than how

there could be discontinuity on this point.

 

>

 

> I didnt say that it was being used for ASTROLOGY in VEDIC days but yes

they were observing those planets in the sky might be for the VEDIC YAJNA,,,

And they have also attributed some characteristics to them which were copied on

the same theme for astrology...

 

>

 

> And on the same theme archaeologist have found some tablets(basically in

the region of Assyrian) in Babylonia related to astrology.

 

>

 

> Astro.Vedas

 

>

 

>

 

> Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com,

" Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote:

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > Dear Astroveda,

 

> >

 

> > Jai Shri Ram!

 

> >

 

> > < If you need VERSE numbers from VEDAS, let me know...>

 

> >

 

> > Pl. do so. In fact, if you ponder on the meaning of those mantras

 

> > yourself, you will find the answeres to your questions that the

meaning

 

> > of the words Angirasas etc. was never in the sense of planets like

 

> > Mangal and Shani etc.

 

> >

 

> > Jai Shri Ram.

 

> >

 

> > A K Kaul

 

> >

 

> >

 

> > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Astro

Vedas

 

> > <astro.vedas@> wrote:

 

> > >

 

> > > Some more questions to you :-

 

> > > Â

 

> > > What were Angirasas(Mars) , Vena(Venus), Brihaspati(Jupiter) in

 

> > VEDAS.??

 

> > > Â

 

> > > If you need VERSE numbers from VEDAS, let me know...

 

> > > Â

 

> > > You say that we were not giving attention to planets in VEDIC

 

> > period....Than could you please let me know than what was the use of

 

> > Angirasas in VERSES....

 

> > > Â

 

> > > How Vena have been used in VEDAS...

 

> > > Â

 

> > > Please let me know how Brihaspati have been used in VJ....

 

> > > Â

 

> > > Please also let us know the characteristics of all those,

 

> > Angirasas(Mars) , Vena(Venus), Brihaspati(Jupiter) in VEDAS...

 

> > > Â

 

> > > Astro.Vedas

 

> > >

 

> > >

 

> > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Astro Vedas astro.vedas@ wrote:

 

> > >

 

> > >

 

> > > Astro Vedas astro.vedas@

 

> > > Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Rashis were sayana in

eleventh

 

> > century India also!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,Jyotirved have not read the Puranas and the Vedas. Of course even if he reads the Vedas now he will not understand it as he thinks that the Vedas must say each and everything very lucidly such that even a dim-witted person should understand it as he thinks that the Vedas must not tell anything indirectly.. He can say that such and such things are not there in the Veda as he has not read the Vedas himself through any Vedic guru / scholar and nobody also had told him these t5hings from the Veda. If you tell him about his ignorance then he will ask you to prove it by giving the references from the Vedas so that he can learn it. He does not know by which name Mangal and Shukra are mentioned in Veda and wants to learn. He must have the humility first and then I am sure some vedic scholar will definitely tell him that. He

thinks that Shukra must be mentioned as Shukra only. He also thinks that the Mangal must be mentioned as Mangal only in the Veda. Let us hope in his next birth he will have the required humility and desire to learn these truths.Om Namo Bhagavate VasudevayaSunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Wed, 11/11/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:jyotirved <jyotirved[VRI] There are no Mangal, Shanir etc. planets in the Vedas!indian_astrology_group_daily_digest Cc: hinducalendar , , "'subash razdan'" <subashrazdanWednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:42 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Astroveda, Jai Shri Ram! < I am

pasting below translation of 4 Mantras related to Angirasas(Future Mars) from

Samveda >

Regarding the meaning of doubtful Sanskrit words, I always consult "shabdakalpadrumah".

It is the ultimate authority since it gives all the required references

also. It is a work of five vols. published by Rashtriya Sanskrit

Samsthan, 56-57A, Institutional Area, Janakppuri, New Delhi, and is priced

extremely low, perhaps less than Rs. 2000. There is another work named

"Vachaspatyam" by Vachaspati Mishra, the famous commentator on Brahma-Sutra.

That work also has been published by the same institution. That was out

of stock for some time and maybe it is available now. The meaning of

"Angira" as given is Shabdakalpadruma is, "munivisheshah.

sai chai brahmano mukhajjatah. tasya bharya kardama muni kanya shradhha.

putrah utathya...." which means, "A particular munih, who was

born from the mouth of Brahma. His wife was named shradha, who was the

daughter of kardama munih...." Amarakosha has

given the synonyms of Mars as, “angarakah kujo bhaumo lohitango

maheesutahâ€. There is no mention of Angirasa in these synonyms either.

In fact, Amarkosha has not included the word angiarasa in the kosha at all!

Maybe some people are confusing Angarakah as Angirasa! As per Monier-Williams,

“Angirasa---an enemy of Vishunu in his incarnation of Parshuramaâ€,

whereas “Angiras is the name of a Rishi, author of the hymns of RV, ix,

of a code of laws and of a treatise on astronomy; he is considered as one of

the seven r ishis of the first manvantaraâ€. Monier-Williams has said

further, “In astronomy he is the planet Jupiter (and not Mars!) and a star

in Ursa Majorâ€. He has, however, not given any references for the same.

And it is a moot point as to how someone can be the planet Brihaspati and also

a star in a far off constellation simultaneously! According to

Monier-Williams again, “Angiras are the priests who by using the magical

formulae of the Atharva Veda, protect the sacrifice against the effects of inauspicious

accidentsâ€. "Venah".."prajapatih,

iti unadikoshah. prithurajapita yatha markandeye. deva visheshah iti

nighantuh. ....venah kantah etat sanjyo madyamasthano devah...tadbahashye

sayanah. yajnyah iti nighantuh. medhavee it nighantuh. ...venah

kamaneeyo medhave va". Thus Venah is a

synonym of prajapatih as per unadikoshah. Vena was the father of Prithu,

since as per the Puranas, he was a very wicked king and was killed by curse of

brahmins. They then churned his body out of which king Prithu is said to

have emerged. It is said that Prithivi was named after king Prithu.

Venah is a name of a deva as per Sayana Acharya. Venah also means

intelligent as per nighantu". According to

Monier-Williams, “Venah---name of a divine being of teh middle region.

Also applied to sun, prajapatih and a gandharva. The name of a rjarshi or

royal rishih said to have perished through irreligious conduct and want of submissiveness

to Brahmins., founder of the race of nishadas and dhivaras.†Thus Venah has

absolutely nothing to do with the dead and wandering body known as planet Venus

in Greco-Chaldean astrology, which some people embrace these days as “Vedic

jyotishâ€. Brihaspati: It

is the famous Devta, who is prayed to at every function in the following two shantipathah “svasti

na indro vridhashravah, svasti no poosha vishva-vedah, svasti nas tarkshyo

arishta nemih, svasti no brihaspatir dadatuâ€. Here Brihaspati

has been clubbed with Indira, the king of gods, Poosha, the omniscient, Garuda,

the “trouble shooterâ€, In the

following mantra also, Brihaspati has been clubbed with Mitrah, Varunah, Aryama,

and Vishnu. “sham no

mitrah sham varunah, sham no bhavatu aryama. Sham no indro brihaspatir, shamno

vishnur urkramah†Thus it is one

the deities of the Vedas and has nothing to do with the Greek/Babylonian planet

Jupiter, who has been hugged by “Vedic jyotishis†as “devanam

guruh birhaspatihâ€. <> Please

let me know how Brihaspati have been used in VJ...>

 

There is no

mention of Brihaspati in the VJ. Thus as seen

above, Angirasa and Venah and Brihaspati are not inanimate wandering bodies but

are Vedic munis or deities etc. We can thus

safely conclude that there are no Mangal, Shukra and Shani etc. planets in the

Vedas, or the VJ etc. < My point

is VEDIC ppl were knowing about the planets and information of those planets

went to Mesopotamia and Babylonia through AVESTA and than to Egypt and

GREECE...> It has become a

fad these days to claim that even the useless and most unreliable “art of

predictions†also was expounded by the Vedic seers to start with and

then it went to other countries! We are doing actually the greatest injustice

to the Vedic Seers by attributing such non-sense to them. < And on the

same theme archaeologist have found some tablets(basically in the region of

Assyrian) in Babylonia related to astrology.> Thank God, they

found it in Babylonia and not in India! I would have to hang my head in shame

then if the real Vamadevas had also been practicing predictive gimmicks in the

name of “Vedic astrologyâ€. As on date, I can proudly claim that I

belong to a race of Rishis who never had any faith in such fads as

phalita-jyotisha or hasta-samudrika etc.

Jai Shri Ram A K Kaul --- In

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Astro.Vedas@ @ wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Kaulji,

>

> I am pasting below translation of 4 Mantras related to Angirasas(Future

Mars) from Samveda :-

>

>

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ***

> Hence have these men gone up on high and mounted to the heights of heaven:

> On! conquer on the path by which Angirasas travelled to the skies!

>

> So, Angiras, we make thee strong with fuel and with holy oil.

> Blaze high, thou youngest of the Gods!

>

> O Agni, the Angirasas discovered thee what time thou layest hidden,

fleeing back from wood to wood.

> Thou by attrition art produced as conquering might, and men, O Angiras,

call thee the Son of Strength.

>

> What is the praise wherewith, O God, Angiras, Agni, Son of Strength,

> We, after thine own wish and thought,

>

>

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ***

>

> My point is VEDIC ppl were knowing about the planets and information of

those planets went to Mesopotamia and Babylonia through AVESTA and than to

Egypt and GREECE...

>

> All things have reached over there from here related to astronomy than how

there could be discontinuity on this point.

>

> I didnt say that it was being used for ASTROLOGY in VEDIC days but yes

they were observing those planets in the sky might be for the VEDIC YAJNA,,,

And they have also attributed some characteristics to them which were copied on

the same theme for astrology...

>

> And on the same theme archaeologist have found some tablets(basically in

the region of Assyrian) in Babylonia related to astrology.

>

> Astro.Vedas

>

>

> Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com,

"Krishen" jyotirved@ wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Astroveda,

> >

> > Jai Shri Ram!

> >

> > < If you need VERSE numbers from VEDAS, let me know...>

> >

> > Pl. do so. In fact, if you ponder on the meaning of those mantras

> > yourself, you will find the answeres to your questions that the

meaning

> > of the words Angirasas etc. was never in the sense of planets like

> > Mangal and Shani etc.

> >

> > Jai Shri Ram.

> >

> > A K Kaul

> >

> >

> > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Astro

Vedas

> > <astro.vedas@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Some more questions to you :-

> > > Â

> > > What were Angirasas(Mars) , Vena(Venus), Brihaspati(Jupiter) in

> > VEDAS.??

> > > Â

> > > If you need VERSE numbers from VEDAS, let me know...

> > > Â

> > > You say that we were not giving attention to planets in VEDIC

> > period....Than could you please let me know than what was the use of

> > Angirasas in VERSES....

> > > Â

> > > How Vena have been used in VEDAS...

> > > Â

> > > Please let me know how Brihaspati have been used in VJ....

> > > Â

> > > Please also let us know the characteristics of all those,

> > Angirasas(Mars) , Vena(Venus), Brihaspati(Jupiter) in VEDAS...

> > > Â

> > > Astro.Vedas

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Astro Vedas astro.vedas@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Astro Vedas astro.vedas@

> > > Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Rashis were sayana in

eleventh

> > century India also!