Guest guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 hinducivilization , ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj wrote: The problem is this: modern notion of history is entirely different from the traditional/Hindu notion of history. Here are the differences: 1. Modern history is a post-mortem kind of history and not explained on a going-concern basis. 2. Modern history gives importance to dates, persons and events. It covers a much small timespan and it is possible to do so. Whereas Hindu history is too long and dates, persons or events are too many to be recorded. And it is also deemed unimportant, for Hindus gave more importance to ideas than events or people. 3. History for Hindus is not a list of recorded facts - it is a direct link to their present, their lives. So history is not just an inspiration but a living presence. 4. History for Hindus is a mix of many histories and not just political history, it includes the history of evolution of ideas, subjects like astronomy, mantra sastra and so on. There are many more differences, but this should give an idea of what history really means to us and why it is not a list of dry facts and dates. gemiguy25 <gemiguy25 wrote: Dear members Let me forward what I saw in another forum. This I humbly feel is different form what is already been posted here repeatedly... about rAmAyanA. Best Thamizh *************************************************************** Dr. Padmakar Vishnu Vartak Shaniwar Peth, Pune, 411030 M.B.B.S., F.U.W.A.I., Ph.D.(Lit.)[Washington DC] Tel. No. 020.24450387 email : vartakpadmakar The Historicity of the Valmiki Ramayana I will restrict myself to the Ramayana composed by a great seer Valmiki, who was a contemporary of Rama, the son of Dasharatha. There are many Ramayanas but they are all written much later and all of them refer to the seer Valmiki. Therefore Valmiki has a unique place. He has written his Ramayana as a history and not as a devotional book as other Ramayanas are. We Indians suppose that the subject `History' is taught to us by British people. But it is wrong a notion. Indian sages have done a lot of historical work in the long past, thousands of years ago. The Rigveda has recorded some history, the Ramayana of Valmiki is a true history though written in an epic form. Sage Vyasa also has recorded a true history of the Mahabharata War in the epic form. An Epic, which means poetry, was composed for people to cram over and preserve the history. The sages were truth abiding. Therefore they wrote true history. Some poetic ideas may have been presented, but the main theme is certainly a true history. Valmiki has composed a true history of Rama. He has recorded facts. However in a later era, devotion grew to a great extent and it caused additions of many wild imaginations in the original Ramayana of Valmiki. For example, Valmiki has nowhere mentioned that Ahalya was turned in to a rock. He writes clearly and plainly that Ahalya was doing Tapasya and was looking very bright. She was a lady and not a stone. Rama saluted her in honour. Valmiki has not written that stones floated on sea due to writing the name of Rama on those stones. Valmiki writes that the Vanaras cut great rocks using some machines, those rocks were thrown in to the sea. They drowned. On that foundation Nala Vanar built a bridge of trees. Whatever Valmiki has written is pure history and it reveals advancement of science in those ancient days. Valmiki narrates aeroplanes. Rawana had Pushpaka Vimana, which was similar to the modern Jumbo jet or Concord. Indrajit had a jet fighter plane, which he used in wars. Vanaras like Hanuman had a system of floating in air similar to the modern Gliders. The floating machines of Vanaras did not produce any sound, but the aeroplanes of Daityas produced a thunderous sound and smoke. Valmiki has narrated geography quite eruditely. It shows that Valmiki had knowledge of Geography as good as any modern teacher of geography. Valmiki mentions a Coconut tree having three branches, which glittered like gold. He tells that the tree was erected on a mountain situated in the eastern side of the Pacific ocean. It is surprising that during 1960-1965, the modern researchers found out a trident on an offshoot of the Mount Andes in South America. It glitters like gold if seen from the sky. Modern scientists say that it must have been prepared for ancient aviators, because it is not seen from the land or the sea. It is seen only from the sky. Whatever Valmiki has recorded has been proved by that discovery. In the same way models of aeroplanes made of solid gold have been recovered from a cave in Bogota. The scientists of the American Aviation department have declared, after thorough examination, that those are the models of supersonic jet aeroplanes. Even an ancient aerodrome is found about 100 miles away from the Trident. It proves the historicity of Valmiki Ramayana. From these short observations it is seen that Valmiki has recorded a true history of Rama's time. But when did the Ramayana happen? So far not a single scholar could fix the date of the Ramayana. Leave aside the date, even the millennium is not surmised, century is not guessed by the scholars. This failure is due to the fact that every scholar followed the path of the western scholars. The western scholars were not and are, still, not conversant with the science of measurement of time prepared by the ancient Indian sages. The science of time measurement was perfected by the Indian seers with the help of astronomy. They used the movements of the Sun and the Moon in the Nakshatras and correlated the seasons with them. Such a method was unknown to the western people, who went only by the Sun's movements in relation with the Earth. They neglected the movements of the Moon. It was for this reason that they had to correct the dates omitting 12 days at a time, during 1582 AD. It was not necessary to the Indian method of time-measurement, which depended on the Sun and the Moon both. Indians cannot delete even a day from their calendar, because their calendar is eternal and is always seen in the sky. The lunar months depend on the place of the Moon in the Nakshatras. For example, if I say it is Chaitra Masa, it always means that in that month the Full Moon is seen near the Nakshatra Chitra. From the Moon's position the position of the Sun can be easily calculated because the Full Moon always resides exactly opposite the Sun. If the Full Moon is in Chitra Nakshatra, the Sun will be in Ashwini Nakshatra. The sages knew that the seasons on the Earth depended only on the position of the Sun in relation to the Earth. They marked the Sun's position at the eastern horizon at the sunrise and fixed the `Ayana' and in turn the season. They named the six seasons, which still hold well. The sages noticed that when the Sun was in the south, there was cold season and when the Sun was in the extreme north, there was hot season, which ended when the Sun began southward journey and the Varsha or the rainy season began. The seers discovered the Precession of Equinoxes too. There are records of the Sun's position on equinoctial points, e.g. Vernal and Autumnal equinoxes and Summer and Winter solstices. They knew that the Sun recedes back by one Nakshatra in about thousand years. This is now proved by the modern astronomy that the Sun recedes back by one degree in 72 years or one Nakshatra in 960 years. When I correlated the ancient knowledge with the modern observations, I could fix the exact dates of the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. With the same tool of the modern astronomy I could find that Valmiki as well as Vyasa has written precise history. The descriptions of their seasons tally precisely with the modern astronomy, mathematics and climatology. With this background of astronomical science, let us now see the important incidents from the Ramayana. However, before going in to the realm of the Ramayana I will prefer to tell that hundreds of books refer to Valmiki and Ramayana and this fact proves the historicity of the Ramayana. A fantasy is not referred to by other authors. One ancient dramatist, Bhasa, has written two dramas, `Pratima' and `Abhisheka' on the theme of the Ramayana. Bhasa lived before Buddha and so his date is before 500 BC. Author Shudraka of about the same period has referred to Hanuman In his drama `Mrutchhakatika'. Kalhana in his Rajatarangini mentions Ramayana. Karma-Pradeepa or Katyana Smruti of 500-600 BC refers to the golden statue of Seeta made by Rama. It shows that even the Uttara Kanda of the Valmiki Ramayana was popular during 600 BC. Valmiki Ramayana does not mention `Simhala Dweepa', it all the time tells of `Lanka'. It proves that the Ramayana is composed before the name Simhala Dweepa came into use. The name `Simhala Dweepa' is given by the King Vijaya during 543 BC after his father's name, when he took possession of the island. This proves that the Ramayana must have been composed before 543 BC. A Buddhist book `Maharajawali', supposed to be written around 543 BC, states that before Buddha's birth the island was called as Shri Lanka and 1845 years prior to the death of Buddha there occurred a war, called as `Rama-Rawana War'. In the ancient era it was a practice to take the digits from right towards left. Therefore 1845 means 5481 years. 5481 years before Buddha's death, the war had happened. Buddha died around 543 BC. Hence the war must have taken place around 6024 BC. The Shukra Neeti of 1000 BC refers to the Ramayana. The Garga Samhita of 1640 BC refers to the Ramayana. The Vishnu Purana of 1652 BC includes the Ramayana. All other Puranas, written around 2000 BC, also tell the story of the Ramayana. The great epic Mahabharata gives full story of the Ramayana three times. The Mahabharata was composed during 5500 BC. I myself have proved this date on many evidences, including 22 astronomical evidences, which proved the exact date of beginning of the Mahabharata War as the 16th October 5561 BC. Thus it shows that the Ramayana must have happened before 5561 BC. We have considered the external evidences to reach to the period of the Ramayana. Now we will consider the internal evidences. Valmiki does not mention the Krishna Yajurweda and the Shukla Yajurweda. It shows that the Ramayana was composed by Valmiki before the Shukla Yajurweda was composed. It is certain that the Shukla Yajurweda was composed by sage Yajnawalkya during 3000 BC. We can say this definitely because it mentions that the Krittikas rise at the exact east. The Late Shri. S. B. Dixit has shown astronomically that the Krittikas rose at the exact east during 3000 BC. This shows that Valmiki was much before 3000 BC. All the Deities mentioned by the Ramayana are Vedic Deities. The Deities from the Mahabharata are different. It shows that the Ramayana was very close to the Rigweda. The Mahabharata of 5500 BC worships Ganapati, however the Ramayana does not even mention Ganapati, who is not seen in the Rigweda too. Ramayana tells that Seeta performed Home-Hawana-Sandhya. This is a Vedic ritual, which was not in practice during the Mahabharata. A lady ruling the kingdom was not thought of in the Mahabharata, but it was considered in the Ramayana. Purohita Wasistha said to Kaikeyi that Seeta would accept the throne. After Wali's death, Hanuman told Tara to govern the state. Dasharatha also tells Kaikeyi to reign as a widow. Warrior women, such as Kaikeyi, are described in the Ramayana similar to the Vedas, where Queen Wishpala or Shachi are told to have gone on wars and women army of Namuchi is recorded. The tradition of Sati is not mentioned in the Ramayana as well as in the Vedas. However, it is told in the Mahabharata. It was a later tradition. All these points prove that the Ramayana is a very ancient work, much before the Mahabharata of 5561 BC. The Ramayana mentions `Taittiriya Shakha' of the Vedas. The Taittiriya Samhita states that the Northern journey of the Sun began with the Krittika Nakshatra. It shows that the Sun then on Winter Solstice i.e. 22nd December was between Krittika and Bharani Nakshatras, at about 27 degrees in the zodiac. At present the Sun on 22nd December resides at 246 degrees. The Precession of equinoxes has reverse motion at the rate of one degree in 72 years. The Sun has receded from 27 degrees to zero or 360 degrees and then to 246 degrees. From 360 to 246 degrees it travelled 114 degrees plus 27 degrees. It means the Sun travelled total 141 degrees. It must have taken 8208 years. Thus, approximately, the Ramayana goes to such an ancient period. It is a tradition in India to hoist flags on the New Year day. The flag is called as Indra Dhwaja. Ramayana in Kishkindha Kanda tells that Indra Dhwaja was hoisted on Aswini Pournima, when it got spoiled by heat and rain. It shows that the Ashwini Pournima came at the end of summer and at the beginning of the rainy season, when heat and rain prevail. This in turn shows that the then Summer Solstice ( 22nd June) fell on Ashwini Full Moon day. It means the Sun on the Summer Solstice resided in Swati Nakshatra then. At present the Sun resides in Ardra Nakshatra on the Summer Solstice. The Sun has shifted from Swati to Ardra about 129.5 degrees. Multiplying 129.50 by 72 we get 9324 years. Thus 9324 years before present the Ramayana must have happened. In other words 7300 BC is the period of the Valmiki Ramayana. If we cursorily see the Ramayana we feel that the rainy season then extended from Shrawana to Kartika lunar months. It is adverse to my statement above. Even then I will accept it and will show how wrong it is, if seen with the context of the Ramayana. Rama rested for four months of the rainy season, Shrawana, Bhadrapada, Ashwina and Kartika. When Kartika was over and Sharad Rutu was almost at end, Rama got angry. Hanuman also states that Sharad was nearing its end.(Kishkindha32) Assuming an exaggeration and excluding it we can say that half of Sharad was over and during Pousha Masa the Vanaras marched out to find out Seeta. After one month from their departure they could see the signs of spring, the Vasanta. (Kishkindha 53). How could there be Vasanta Rutu during Magha lunar month? How could there be spring after only two months after the cessation of rainy season? Kishkindha 53 states that Vanaras launched the campaign after Ashwina i.e. in Kartika lunar month, while Kishkindha 32 states that they set out in Pousha Masa. Sundar Kanda (14/2) states that Hanuman saw the spring in Lanka. Burning Lanka, Hanuman came back to Kishkindha, Rama went out with his army to Lanka, fought war, won it and returned to Ayodhya in Chaitra lunar Masa.(Yuddha 124). How can we fit all those events in spring? It is not possible. One more serious problem arises here. Rawana abducted Seeta in Hemant Rutu and gave her a time limit of one year only to surrender. After the next Hemanta, Seeta was not likely to live. So what was the use of Hanuman and Rama going to Lanka after Hemanta, during spring? They would have seen Seeta dead or seduced. But she was alive and pure. Therefore she must have been released from the clutches of Rawana during Hemanta. If Shrawana was in rainy season, Chaitra should be in spring. However, Uttara Kanda 41-42 state that in Chaitra it was Shishira i.e. cold season, when Rama returned. 7-42-25 states that one month after return of Rama, in Waishakha Masa the Shishira Rutu ended. How all the seasons from Vasant to Shishira ended in one month only? All this consideration shows that rainy season did not begin in Shrawana. It is shown by Valmiki by using a term `Warshika-Poorwa-Masa' for Shrawana Masa, which means that it was a month before the rainy season. `Jalagama' is another term used, which shows coming of rainy season. It is further described that during it there was play of sunlight and shadows caused by coming and going of clouds. This points to the Premonsoon, which means a period before 22nd June, during Bhadrapada Masa. This was natural if intercalary month is considered. Usually, the Summer Solstice resided then on Ashwin Pournima; however because the lunar year is shorter by 10.889 days than solar year, one intercalary month arises after 2.5 years. Therefore, the Summer Solstice slided back to Bhadrapada Masa. All these considerations prove that the rainy season did not begin then on Shrawana Masa. To make this more clear I will use Rutus. Rawana abducted Seeta during Hemanta and gave her a period of one year, that means up to the next Hemanta, to consider marrying with Rawana. Rama approached Kishkindha in Vasanta. Rama killed Wali during Greeshma. Hanuman went to search Seeta in Sharad and returned in Sharad. Then Rama went to Lanka, fought the war and released Seeta in Hemanta. Rama returned immediately to Ayodhya in one day by Pushpaka Wimana, when there was still Hemanta Rutu and Chaitra Masa. Rama was coroneted in Chaitra. One month later in Waishakha he entered Ashoka Wana, when Shishira ended. Rama began forest life in Chaitra, he ended it after completing 14 years, in Chaitra. It was Chaitra during Hemanta Rutu. Therefore leaves of trees were shed down. Looking it Rama requested sage Bharadwaja to use his Siddhi and produce inflorescence. The next month Waishakha was of Shishira Rutu. In Waishakha Masa the full Moon resides in Wishakha Nakshatra. Naturally the Sun comes 180 degrees away in front of it in Ashwini – Bharani Nakshatras. It was the Winter Solstice at that time. At present the winter solstice comes with the Sun in Moola Nakshatra. From Ashwini backwards to Moola there are ten Nakshatras. With the rate of the precession of 960 years for one Nakshatra we can calculate that 9600 years have passed since Rama. It means that the Ramayana happened during 7600 years B.C. Please note that the Vishnu Purana (2-8-70) tells in clear words that two solar months constitute one Rutu. One should not neglect this fact and should not consider the lunar months for the Rutus. Valmiki has used a metaphor of Mars and Rohini for Rawana and Seeta at eight places. He says that Rawana imprisoned Seeta just like Mars imprisons Rohini. Rohini is a V shaped constellation, which appears like a gate. If Mars comes near Rohini it appears as if Mars is a guard and the main star of Rohini is imprisoned inside the gate. Thus the similie is perfect. In fact during Ramayana era Valmiki must have seen this miracle in the sky. Astronomy proves that the phenomenon had taken place between 6000 to 8000 years before Christ. It is a proved fact in astronomy that only the Mars and the Saturn are capable of arresting Rohini like this. Other planets never come so much to the north to come in the vicinity of Rohini. Saturn had come in between the arms of Rohini during the Mahabharata around 5561 BC and is recorded by Wyasa. From the observations done previously we have estimated that the Ramayana has happened between 6000 and 8000 years before Christ. Let us now fix the exact date of Rama's birth. For this estimation we will proceed from the date of the Mahabharata war, which I have fixed as 16th October 5561 BC, depending upon 22 astronomical evidences. Positions of all the planets are recorded by Wyasa in the epic Mahabharata. From those we shall calculate and find out when Rama was born. Valmiki records that at the birth of Rama five planets were exalted, it was Chaitra Shuddha 9th day with Nakshatra Punarvasu i.e. Geminorium. The commonly used planets with their exalted position are the Sun in Aries at 10° Jupiter in Cancer 95°, Saturn in Libra 200°, Mars in Capricorn at 298°, Venus in Pisces at 357°. The Sun, Mars, Venus are fast moving and so are not useful to find out a date so deep in the past. By only two Planets, the Jupiter and the Saturn, it is not possible to fix a date, precisely; we need at least three. Therefore we have to find out Rahu or Ketu. At the time of coronation of Rama his father Dasharatha says,` The Sun, Mars and Rahu are at my Nakshtra'. He talked like this in Chaitra, when the Sun always resides in Aries. It indicates that Dasharatha's Nakshatra was in Aries. Rama had completed 17 years of his age, at his coronation. Rahu takes 18.5992 years to complete its rotation. Therefore before 17 years, at Rama's birth, Rahu must have been near its original position in Aries. By many calculations, I found out 7323 BC as the year of Rama's birth. I will not trouble you by telling what troubles I had to face in those calculations. I will show how all the planets show the positions as told by Valmiki. I had the position of Saturn at 16 October 5561 BC as 141°. We have to go 1762 years in the past, from 5561 BC to 7323 BC. The Saturn takes 29.454483 years for its one rotation. So in 1762 years it had travelled back by 295.6°. This comes to 205.4° in Libra. Similarly, I found the Jupiter at 92.6°, Mars at 283° and Rahu at 181.69°. Thus all the four planets are seen near their exalted places. It proves that we have come to the exact date of Rama's birth as 7323 BC. It was Chaitra Masa, so the Sun was in Aries and was exalted. Venus always resides near the Sun, within two Rashis from the Sun. Therefore the Venus might be in Pisces in exaltation. From these positions of the planets if we calculate, we find the positions 17 years later, which are similar to those recorded by Valmiki at the time of coronation. By deeper calculations Rama's birth date was confirmed as the 4th December 7323 BC. By similar calculations I found out the date of Rama's marriage as 7th April 7307 BC, on Bhadrapada Shuddha 3, Uttara Phalguni Nakshatra. They went to forest on 29th November 7306 BC on Thursday. Valmiki mentions Thursday, when Rama's coronation was proposed. But he had to go to forest on the same day. Let me tell here that the Weekdays are being used in India since Taittiriya Samhita, 8300 years BC. Therefore Valmiki tells that it was Thursday when Rama went to forest, on 29 November 7306 BC. Dasharatha died on 5th December 7306 BC. Rawana was killed on 15th November 7292 BC. The war took place from 3rd November to 15th November 7292 BC. Valmiki has given a vivid description of the sky when he narrated how Hanuman returned from Lanka. There he has placed before us a plan or a map of the sky showing where the Nakshatras and planets were placed. Valmiki's language is so beautiful that we get lost in its beauty and forget the actual situation told by Valmiki. He says, `the Moon was very attractive like a lotus, the Sun appeared like a beautiful crane, a span of constellations from Tishya i.e. Pushya Nakshatra to Shrawana Nakshatra was visible, Punarwasu appeared like a big fish, Mars appeared like a crocodile, Airawata resembled like a beautiful island and Swati Nakshatra looked like a swan.' Airawata is the name used by Valmiki for the sign of zodiac now known as the Scorpio; because it looks like a trunk of an elephant. The Rigweda has used the word `Ibha' for it, which means an elephant. Here Valmiki has presented an astonishingly correct map of the sky. He gives the limits from Tishya to Shrawana, which means a span from 104 to 281 degrees. It means a span of 177 degrees from the east to the west is presented, which is usually seen. The Nakshatras from Punarwasu to Shrawana are seen in Pousha Masa at the dawn. The rising Sun and the setting Moon are also seen at a time just after a Full Moon day. Thus it was Poush Krishna Pratipada. I calculated from it and found that Hanuman returned from Lanka at the dawn of Pousha Krishna 1, on 3rd September 7292 BC. A day earlier Valmiki has described a beautiful moonlit night of Pousha Pournima. The great Rama-Rawana war took place from 3rd Nov. to15th Nov. 7292 BC, only for 13 days. In this way I could establish the dates of almost 45 incidents from Rama's life. It is my experience of surgery and anatomy that if we reach a proper layer, dissection becomes easy and operation becomes successful. Because I could go to a proper layer of time, I could find out the exact dates of the incidents from the Ramayana. I am proud to state that nobody has done such a work so far. It was possible because the ancient Indian system of time measurement is perfect. I could understand it and could correlate it with the modern method. It was the key to my success. I thank the ancient seers for keeping fine records of certain events, according to their perfected method. Please note that I have not used either the Julian or the Gregorian calendar; but I used a reversal of the modern scientific calendar, which has fixed the four cardinal nodes such as the Vernal equinox on 21st March, the Summer Solstice at 22nd June, the Autumnal equinox at 23rd September and the Winter Solstice at 22nd December. These nodes are held as immovable points. Bhishma expired on the eve of the Winter Solstice. Hence the date of death of Bhishma is held as 22nd December 5561 BC. Pope Gregory omitted ten days during 1582 and after 4th of October he held 15th of October, instead of 5th October. The British Empire did not follow the Pope, then. However during 18th century they also omitted 12 days and adjusted with the remaining Europe. Such changes were not necessary for Indian system; because it was observing astronomy daily. The End Dr. Padmakar Vishnu Vartak Shaniwar Peth, Pune, 411030 --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji,Dr. Vartak had given the date of Lord Rama as 7323 BCE. But from Maharajawali it comes out to be 7319 BCE. Let us see how. Lord Buddha died in 1807 BCE. The Rama-Ravana war took placde 5481 years before that. Therefore the date of the war was 1807 + 5481 = 7288 BCE. It was at the end of the 14 years of vanavas. Therefore Lord Rama left Ayodhya in 7288 + 14 = 7302 BCE. At that time he was17 years old. The year of Lord Rama's birth appears to be 7302 + 17 = 7319 or 7318 BCE. This date if only 4 or 5 years after the date given by Dr. Vartak. The exact date is not that important from the chronological point of view. While I agree with Dr. Vartak's date of Ramayana, which is supported by the precessional data, unfortunately Dr. Vartak did not care to take into account the precessional data in case of the Mahabharata war. Based on the precessional data Dr. Abhyankar and others found the date of the Mahabharata war to be 3139 BCE. Suffice it toi say that now it is known that Dr. Vartak actually foung the date of one Parikshit, who was Arjuna's ancestor, whereas he should have considered the Parikshit who was Arjuna's grandson. I shall not go into the detailed discussion on that as it will be very lengthy and if anybody wants that then one may read Dr. vartak's book on that.Regards,Sunil K. Bhattacharjya--- On Tue, 11/17/09, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Fwd: Re: [hc] Historicity of rAmAyanA. Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 12:45 AM hinducivilization, ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj@ ...> wrote: The problem is this: modern notion of history is entirely different from the traditional/ Hindu notion of history. Here are the differences: 1. Modern history is a post-mortem kind of history and not explained on a going-concern basis. 2. Modern history gives importance to dates, persons and events. It covers a much small timespan and it is possible to do so. Whereas Hindu history is too long and dates, persons or events are too many to be recorded. And it is also deemed unimportant, for Hindus gave more importance to ideas than events or people. 3. History for Hindus is not a list of recorded facts - it is a direct link to their present, their lives. So history is not just an inspiration but a living presence. 4. History for Hindus is a mix of many histories and not just political history, it includes the history of evolution of ideas, subjects like astronomy, mantra sastra and so on. There are many more differences, but this should give an idea of what history really means to us and why it is not a list of dry facts and dates. gemiguy25 <gemiguy25@. ..> wrote: Dear members Let me forward what I saw in another forum. This I humbly feel is different form what is already been posted here repeatedly.. . about rAmAyanA. Best Thamizh ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Dr. Padmakar Vishnu Vartak Shaniwar Peth, Pune, 411030 M.B.B.S., F.U.W.A.I., Ph.D.(Lit.)[ Washington DC] Tel. No. 020.24450387 email : vartakpadmakar@ ... The Historicity of the Valmiki Ramayana I will restrict myself to the Ramayana composed by a great seer Valmiki, who was a contemporary of Rama, the son of Dasharatha. There are many Ramayanas but they are all written much later and all of them refer to the seer Valmiki. Therefore Valmiki has a unique place. He has written his Ramayana as a history and not as a devotional book as other Ramayanas are. We Indians suppose that the subject `History' is taught to us by British people. But it is wrong a notion. Indian sages have done a lot of historical work in the long past, thousands of years ago. The Rigveda has recorded some history, the Ramayana of Valmiki is a true history though written in an epic form. Sage Vyasa also has recorded a true history of the Mahabharata War in the epic form. An Epic, which means poetry, was composed for people to cram over and preserve the history. The sages were truth abiding. Therefore they wrote true history. Some poetic ideas may have been presented, but the main theme is certainly a true history. Valmiki has composed a true history of Rama. He has recorded facts. However in a later era, devotion grew to a great extent and it caused additions of many wild imaginations in the original Ramayana of Valmiki. For example, Valmiki has nowhere mentioned that Ahalya was turned in to a rock. He writes clearly and plainly that Ahalya was doing Tapasya and was looking very bright. She was a lady and not a stone. Rama saluted her in honour. Valmiki has not written that stones floated on sea due to writing the name of Rama on those stones. Valmiki writes that the Vanaras cut great rocks using some machines, those rocks were thrown in to the sea. They drowned. On that foundation Nala Vanar built a bridge of trees. Whatever Valmiki has written is pure history and it reveals advancement of science in those ancient days. Valmiki narrates aeroplanes. Rawana had Pushpaka Vimana, which was similar to the modern Jumbo jet or Concord. Indrajit had a jet fighter plane, which he used in wars. Vanaras like Hanuman had a system of floating in air similar to the modern Gliders. The floating machines of Vanaras did not produce any sound, but the aeroplanes of Daityas produced a thunderous sound and smoke. Valmiki has narrated geography quite eruditely. It shows that Valmiki had knowledge of Geography as good as any modern teacher of geography. Valmiki mentions a Coconut tree having three branches, which glittered like gold. He tells that the tree was erected on a mountain situated in the eastern side of the Pacific ocean. It is surprising that during 1960-1965, the modern researchers found out a trident on an offshoot of the Mount Andes in South America. It glitters like gold if seen from the sky. Modern scientists say that it must have been prepared for ancient aviators, because it is not seen from the land or the sea. It is seen only from the sky. Whatever Valmiki has recorded has been proved by that discovery. In the same way models of aeroplanes made of solid gold have been recovered from a cave in Bogota. The scientists of the American Aviation department have declared, after thorough examination, that those are the models of supersonic jet aeroplanes. Even an ancient aerodrome is found about 100 miles away from the Trident. It proves the historicity of Valmiki Ramayana. From these short observations it is seen that Valmiki has recorded a true history of Rama's time. But when did the Ramayana happen? So far not a single scholar could fix the date of the Ramayana. Leave aside the date, even the millennium is not surmised, century is not guessed by the scholars. This failure is due to the fact that every scholar followed the path of the western scholars. The western scholars were not and are, still, not conversant with the science of measurement of time prepared by the ancient Indian sages. The science of time measurement was perfected by the Indian seers with the help of astronomy. They used the movements of the Sun and the Moon in the Nakshatras and correlated the seasons with them. Such a method was unknown to the western people, who went only by the Sun's movements in relation with the Earth. They neglected the movements of the Moon. It was for this reason that they had to correct the dates omitting 12 days at a time, during 1582 AD. It was not necessary to the Indian method of time-measurement, which depended on the Sun and the Moon both. Indians cannot delete even a day from their calendar, because their calendar is eternal and is always seen in the sky. The lunar months depend on the place of the Moon in the Nakshatras. For example, if I say it is Chaitra Masa, it always means that in that month the Full Moon is seen near the Nakshatra Chitra. From the Moon's position the position of the Sun can be easily calculated because the Full Moon always resides exactly opposite the Sun. If the Full Moon is in Chitra Nakshatra, the Sun will be in Ashwini Nakshatra. The sages knew that the seasons on the Earth depended only on the position of the Sun in relation to the Earth. They marked the Sun's position at the eastern horizon at the sunrise and fixed the `Ayana' and in turn the season. They named the six seasons, which still hold well. The sages noticed that when the Sun was in the south, there was cold season and when the Sun was in the extreme north, there was hot season, which ended when the Sun began southward journey and the Varsha or the rainy season began. The seers discovered the Precession of Equinoxes too. There are records of the Sun's position on equinoctial points, e.g. Vernal and Autumnal equinoxes and Summer and Winter solstices. They knew that the Sun recedes back by one Nakshatra in about thousand years. This is now proved by the modern astronomy that the Sun recedes back by one degree in 72 years or one Nakshatra in 960 years. When I correlated the ancient knowledge with the modern observations, I could fix the exact dates of the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. With the same tool of the modern astronomy I could find that Valmiki as well as Vyasa has written precise history. The descriptions of their seasons tally precisely with the modern astronomy, mathematics and climatology. With this background of astronomical science, let us now see the important incidents from the Ramayana. However, before going in to the realm of the Ramayana I will prefer to tell that hundreds of books refer to Valmiki and Ramayana and this fact proves the historicity of the Ramayana. A fantasy is not referred to by other authors. One ancient dramatist, Bhasa, has written two dramas, `Pratima' and `Abhisheka' on the theme of the Ramayana. Bhasa lived before Buddha and so his date is before 500 BC. Author Shudraka of about the same period has referred to Hanuman In his drama `Mrutchhakatika' . Kalhana in his Rajatarangini mentions Ramayana. Karma-Pradeepa or Katyana Smruti of 500-600 BC refers to the golden statue of Seeta made by Rama. It shows that even the Uttara Kanda of the Valmiki Ramayana was popular during 600 BC. Valmiki Ramayana does not mention `Simhala Dweepa', it all the time tells of `Lanka'. It proves that the Ramayana is composed before the name Simhala Dweepa came into use. The name `Simhala Dweepa' is given by the King Vijaya during 543 BC after his father's name, when he took possession of the island. This proves that the Ramayana must have been composed before 543 BC. A Buddhist book `Maharajawali' , supposed to be written around 543 BC, states that before Buddha's birth the island was called as Shri Lanka and 1845 years prior to the death of Buddha there occurred a war, called as `Rama-Rawana War'. In the ancient era it was a practice to take the digits from right towards left. Therefore 1845 means 5481 years. 5481 years before Buddha's death, the war had happened. Buddha died around 543 BC. Hence the war must have taken place around 6024 BC. The Shukra Neeti of 1000 BC refers to the Ramayana. The Garga Samhita of 1640 BC refers to the Ramayana. The Vishnu Purana of 1652 BC includes the Ramayana. All other Puranas, written around 2000 BC, also tell the story of the Ramayana. The great epic Mahabharata gives full story of the Ramayana three times. The Mahabharata was composed during 5500 BC. I myself have proved this date on many evidences, including 22 astronomical evidences, which proved the exact date of beginning of the Mahabharata War as the 16th October 5561 BC. Thus it shows that the Ramayana must have happened before 5561 BC. We have considered the external evidences to reach to the period of the Ramayana. Now we will consider the internal evidences. Valmiki does not mention the Krishna Yajurweda and the Shukla Yajurweda. It shows that the Ramayana was composed by Valmiki before the Shukla Yajurweda was composed. It is certain that the Shukla Yajurweda was composed by sage Yajnawalkya during 3000 BC. We can say this definitely because it mentions that the Krittikas rise at the exact east. The Late Shri. S. B. Dixit has shown astronomically that the Krittikas rose at the exact east during 3000 BC. This shows that Valmiki was much before 3000 BC. All the Deities mentioned by the Ramayana are Vedic Deities. The Deities from the Mahabharata are different. It shows that the Ramayana was very close to the Rigweda. The Mahabharata of 5500 BC worships Ganapati, however the Ramayana does not even mention Ganapati, who is not seen in the Rigweda too. Ramayana tells that Seeta performed Home-Hawana- Sandhya. This is a Vedic ritual, which was not in practice during the Mahabharata. A lady ruling the kingdom was not thought of in the Mahabharata, but it was considered in the Ramayana. Purohita Wasistha said to Kaikeyi that Seeta would accept the throne. After Wali's death, Hanuman told Tara to govern the state. Dasharatha also tells Kaikeyi to reign as a widow. Warrior women, such as Kaikeyi, are described in the Ramayana similar to the Vedas, where Queen Wishpala or Shachi are told to have gone on wars and women army of Namuchi is recorded. The tradition of Sati is not mentioned in the Ramayana as well as in the Vedas. However, it is told in the Mahabharata. It was a later tradition. All these points prove that the Ramayana is a very ancient work, much before the Mahabharata of 5561 BC. The Ramayana mentions `Taittiriya Shakha' of the Vedas. The Taittiriya Samhita states that the Northern journey of the Sun began with the Krittika Nakshatra. It shows that the Sun then on Winter Solstice i.e. 22nd December was between Krittika and Bharani Nakshatras, at about 27 degrees in the zodiac. At present the Sun on 22nd December resides at 246 degrees. The Precession of equinoxes has reverse motion at the rate of one degree in 72 years. The Sun has receded from 27 degrees to zero or 360 degrees and then to 246 degrees. From 360 to 246 degrees it travelled 114 degrees plus 27 degrees. It means the Sun travelled total 141 degrees. It must have taken 8208 years. Thus, approximately, the Ramayana goes to such an ancient period. It is a tradition in India to hoist flags on the New Year day. The flag is called as Indra Dhwaja. Ramayana in Kishkindha Kanda tells that Indra Dhwaja was hoisted on Aswini Pournima, when it got spoiled by heat and rain. It shows that the Ashwini Pournima came at the end of summer and at the beginning of the rainy season, when heat and rain prevail. This in turn shows that the then Summer Solstice ( 22nd June) fell on Ashwini Full Moon day. It means the Sun on the Summer Solstice resided in Swati Nakshatra then. At present the Sun resides in Ardra Nakshatra on the Summer Solstice. The Sun has shifted from Swati to Ardra about 129.5 degrees. Multiplying 129.50 by 72 we get 9324 years. Thus 9324 years before present the Ramayana must have happened. In other words 7300 BC is the period of the Valmiki Ramayana. If we cursorily see the Ramayana we feel that the rainy season then extended from Shrawana to Kartika lunar months. It is adverse to my statement above. Even then I will accept it and will show how wrong it is, if seen with the context of the Ramayana. Rama rested for four months of the rainy season, Shrawana, Bhadrapada, Ashwina and Kartika. When Kartika was over and Sharad Rutu was almost at end, Rama got angry. Hanuman also states that Sharad was nearing its end.(Kishkindha32) Assuming an exaggeration and excluding it we can say that half of Sharad was over and during Pousha Masa the Vanaras marched out to find out Seeta. After one month from their departure they could see the signs of spring, the Vasanta. (Kishkindha 53). How could there be Vasanta Rutu during Magha lunar month? How could there be spring after only two months after the cessation of rainy season? Kishkindha 53 states that Vanaras launched the campaign after Ashwina i.e. in Kartika lunar month, while Kishkindha 32 states that they set out in Pousha Masa. Sundar Kanda (14/2) states that Hanuman saw the spring in Lanka. Burning Lanka, Hanuman came back to Kishkindha, Rama went out with his army to Lanka, fought war, won it and returned to Ayodhya in Chaitra lunar Masa.(Yuddha 124). How can we fit all those events in spring? It is not possible. One more serious problem arises here. Rawana abducted Seeta in Hemant Rutu and gave her a time limit of one year only to surrender. After the next Hemanta, Seeta was not likely to live. So what was the use of Hanuman and Rama going to Lanka after Hemanta, during spring? They would have seen Seeta dead or seduced. But she was alive and pure. Therefore she must have been released from the clutches of Rawana during Hemanta. If Shrawana was in rainy season, Chaitra should be in spring. However, Uttara Kanda 41-42 state that in Chaitra it was Shishira i.e. cold season, when Rama returned. 7-42-25 states that one month after return of Rama, in Waishakha Masa the Shishira Rutu ended. How all the seasons from Vasant to Shishira ended in one month only? All this consideration shows that rainy season did not begin in Shrawana. It is shown by Valmiki by using a term `Warshika-Poorwa- Masa' for Shrawana Masa, which means that it was a month before the rainy season. `Jalagama' is another term used, which shows coming of rainy season. It is further described that during it there was play of sunlight and shadows caused by coming and going of clouds. This points to the Premonsoon, which means a period before 22nd June, during Bhadrapada Masa. This was natural if intercalary month is considered. Usually, the Summer Solstice resided then on Ashwin Pournima; however because the lunar year is shorter by 10.889 days than solar year, one intercalary month arises after 2.5 years. Therefore, the Summer Solstice slided back to Bhadrapada Masa. All these considerations prove that the rainy season did not begin then on Shrawana Masa. To make this more clear I will use Rutus. Rawana abducted Seeta during Hemanta and gave her a period of one year, that means up to the next Hemanta, to consider marrying with Rawana. Rama approached Kishkindha in Vasanta. Rama killed Wali during Greeshma. Hanuman went to search Seeta in Sharad and returned in Sharad. Then Rama went to Lanka, fought the war and released Seeta in Hemanta. Rama returned immediately to Ayodhya in one day by Pushpaka Wimana, when there was still Hemanta Rutu and Chaitra Masa. Rama was coroneted in Chaitra. One month later in Waishakha he entered Ashoka Wana, when Shishira ended. Rama began forest life in Chaitra, he ended it after completing 14 years, in Chaitra. It was Chaitra during Hemanta Rutu. Therefore leaves of trees were shed down. Looking it Rama requested sage Bharadwaja to use his Siddhi and produce inflorescence. The next month Waishakha was of Shishira Rutu. In Waishakha Masa the full Moon resides in Wishakha Nakshatra. Naturally the Sun comes 180 degrees away in front of it in Ashwini – Bharani Nakshatras. It was the Winter Solstice at that time. At present the winter solstice comes with the Sun in Moola Nakshatra. From Ashwini backwards to Moola there are ten Nakshatras. With the rate of the precession of 960 years for one Nakshatra we can calculate that 9600 years have passed since Rama. It means that the Ramayana happened during 7600 years B.C. Please note that the Vishnu Purana (2-8-70) tells in clear words that two solar months constitute one Rutu. One should not neglect this fact and should not consider the lunar months for the Rutus. Valmiki has used a metaphor of Mars and Rohini for Rawana and Seeta at eight places. He says that Rawana imprisoned Seeta just like Mars imprisons Rohini. Rohini is a V shaped constellation, which appears like a gate. If Mars comes near Rohini it appears as if Mars is a guard and the main star of Rohini is imprisoned inside the gate. Thus the similie is perfect. In fact during Ramayana era Valmiki must have seen this miracle in the sky. Astronomy proves that the phenomenon had taken place between 6000 to 8000 years before Christ. It is a proved fact in astronomy that only the Mars and the Saturn are capable of arresting Rohini like this. Other planets never come so much to the north to come in the vicinity of Rohini. Saturn had come in between the arms of Rohini during the Mahabharata around 5561 BC and is recorded by Wyasa. From the observations done previously we have estimated that the Ramayana has happened between 6000 and 8000 years before Christ. Let us now fix the exact date of Rama's birth. For this estimation we will proceed from the date of the Mahabharata war, which I have fixed as 16th October 5561 BC, depending upon 22 astronomical evidences. Positions of all the planets are recorded by Wyasa in the epic Mahabharata. From those we shall calculate and find out when Rama was born. Valmiki records that at the birth of Rama five planets were exalted, it was Chaitra Shuddha 9th day with Nakshatra Punarvasu i.e. Geminorium. The commonly used planets with their exalted position are the Sun in Aries at 10° Jupiter in Cancer 95°, Saturn in Libra 200°, Mars in Capricorn at 298°, Venus in Pisces at 357°. The Sun, Mars, Venus are fast moving and so are not useful to find out a date so deep in the past. By only two Planets, the Jupiter and the Saturn, it is not possible to fix a date, precisely; we need at least three. Therefore we have to find out Rahu or Ketu. At the time of coronation of Rama his father Dasharatha says,` The Sun, Mars and Rahu are at my Nakshtra'. He talked like this in Chaitra, when the Sun always resides in Aries. It indicates that Dasharatha's Nakshatra was in Aries. Rama had completed 17 years of his age, at his coronation. Rahu takes 18.5992 years to complete its rotation. Therefore before 17 years, at Rama's birth, Rahu must have been near its original position in Aries. By many calculations, I found out 7323 BC as the year of Rama's birth. I will not trouble you by telling what troubles I had to face in those calculations. I will show how all the planets show the positions as told by Valmiki. I had the position of Saturn at 16 October 5561 BC as 141°. We have to go 1762 years in the past, from 5561 BC to 7323 BC. The Saturn takes 29.454483 years for its one rotation. So in 1762 years it had travelled back by 295.6°. This comes to 205.4° in Libra. Similarly, I found the Jupiter at 92.6°, Mars at 283° and Rahu at 181.69°. Thus all the four planets are seen near their exalted places. It proves that we have come to the exact date of Rama's birth as 7323 BC. It was Chaitra Masa, so the Sun was in Aries and was exalted. Venus always resides near the Sun, within two Rashis from the Sun. Therefore the Venus might be in Pisces in exaltation. From these positions of the planets if we calculate, we find the positions 17 years later, which are similar to those recorded by Valmiki at the time of coronation. By deeper calculations Rama's birth date was confirmed as the 4th December 7323 BC. By similar calculations I found out the date of Rama's marriage as 7th April 7307 BC, on Bhadrapada Shuddha 3, Uttara Phalguni Nakshatra. They went to forest on 29th November 7306 BC on Thursday. Valmiki mentions Thursday, when Rama's coronation was proposed. But he had to go to forest on the same day. Let me tell here that the Weekdays are being used in India since Taittiriya Samhita, 8300 years BC. Therefore Valmiki tells that it was Thursday when Rama went to forest, on 29 November 7306 BC. Dasharatha died on 5th December 7306 BC. Rawana was killed on 15th November 7292 BC. The war took place from 3rd November to 15th November 7292 BC. Valmiki has given a vivid description of the sky when he narrated how Hanuman returned from Lanka. There he has placed before us a plan or a map of the sky showing where the Nakshatras and planets were placed. Valmiki's language is so beautiful that we get lost in its beauty and forget the actual situation told by Valmiki. He says, `the Moon was very attractive like a lotus, the Sun appeared like a beautiful crane, a span of constellations from Tishya i.e. Pushya Nakshatra to Shrawana Nakshatra was visible, Punarwasu appeared like a big fish, Mars appeared like a crocodile, Airawata resembled like a beautiful island and Swati Nakshatra looked like a swan.' Airawata is the name used by Valmiki for the sign of zodiac now known as the Scorpio; because it looks like a trunk of an elephant. The Rigweda has used the word `Ibha' for it, which means an elephant. Here Valmiki has presented an astonishingly correct map of the sky. He gives the limits from Tishya to Shrawana, which means a span from 104 to 281 degrees. It means a span of 177 degrees from the east to the west is presented, which is usually seen. The Nakshatras from Punarwasu to Shrawana are seen in Pousha Masa at the dawn. The rising Sun and the setting Moon are also seen at a time just after a Full Moon day. Thus it was Poush Krishna Pratipada. I calculated from it and found that Hanuman returned from Lanka at the dawn of Pousha Krishna 1, on 3rd September 7292 BC. A day earlier Valmiki has described a beautiful moonlit night of Pousha Pournima. The great Rama-Rawana war took place from 3rd Nov. to15th Nov. 7292 BC, only for 13 days. In this way I could establish the dates of almost 45 incidents from Rama's life. It is my experience of surgery and anatomy that if we reach a proper layer, dissection becomes easy and operation becomes successful. Because I could go to a proper layer of time, I could find out the exact dates of the incidents from the Ramayana. I am proud to state that nobody has done such a work so far. It was possible because the ancient Indian system of time measurement is perfect. I could understand it and could correlate it with the modern method. It was the key to my success. I thank the ancient seers for keeping fine records of certain events, according to their perfected method. Please note that I have not used either the Julian or the Gregorian calendar; but I used a reversal of the modern scientific calendar, which has fixed the four cardinal nodes such as the Vernal equinox on 21st March, the Summer Solstice at 22nd June, the Autumnal equinox at 23rd September and the Winter Solstice at 22nd December. These nodes are held as immovable points. Bhishma expired on the eve of the Winter Solstice. Hence the date of death of Bhishma is held as 22nd December 5561 BC. Pope Gregory omitted ten days during 1582 and after 4th of October he held 15th of October, instead of 5th October. The British Empire did not follow the Pope, then. However during 18th century they also omitted 12 days and adjusted with the remaining Europe. Such changes were not necessary for Indian system; because it was observing astronomy daily. The End Dr. Padmakar Vishnu Vartak Shaniwar Peth, Pune, 411030 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ http://mail. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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