Fw: [Ind-Arch] The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

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--- On Thu, 11/26/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya[vedic astrology] Re: [ind-Arch] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

 

1)

 

> In the Brahmana of the Veda we find that at one time the

Mahashivaratri fell on the start of the Uttarayana, ie. on the first

day of the seasonal month of Tapas (and the astronomers will tell you

that this time period was in the third millennium BCE). These days it

does not fall on the day of the start of Uttarayana. Ask the schoolboy

(whom if you explain the above concept of Uttarayana) and he will tell

you that in the Vedic reference the calendar followed for the

Mahashivaratri was the Sidereal calendar and not the Seasonal

calendar.<

 

This deserves closer study. Was there a continuous use of the

Shivaratri festival? Likely but not certain. Religious history is full

of revivals, revivifications of long-dead rituamls or beliefs. Someone

may have picked it up from an old text and erestarted performing it.

 

The Brahmana may well have fixed the Solstice night, which had been a

natural festival for ages, and given sidereal directions for it,

ignorant of the changing nature of the reference to the so-called

"fixed" stars. Next, the Hindus

scripture-worshippi ng Hindus started ignoring the natural basis of the

festival and observing the stellar instructions instead. Those is would

then be a prefiguratyion fo what happened in the Puranic age, when

tropical data were confused with sidereal ones.

 

Unless it is conclusively proved otherwise one has to continue the tradition, according to Shastraic injunctions, that the Mahashivaratri is to be observed on the night of the14th tithi of the dark fortnight in the month of Magha (which is a sidereal month related to the the occurrence of Purnima when the Moon is in the Magha nakshatra). Not only the Mahashivaratri even the Ramnavami is to be observed in the

9th tithi of the bright fortnight of the sidereal Chaitra month.

 

2)

 

> Darshaneyji, in spite of his good intentions prposed that in 2010

it should be celebrated in 12 tapasya, which defies all logic. It is

neither according the Seasonal calendar nor according to the Sidereal

calendar. If he strictly follows the Seasonal calendar then he should

ask people to celebrate the Mahashivaratri on the Winter solstice day by quoting the precedence in the Veda. Hope this will not be difficult for

 

> you to undertand this.

 

>

 

Indeed, return to the common roots of all cosmic religions and celebrate the real Solstice, not its sidereal derivate.

 

My argument was to show that Darshaneyji was true to neither the Sidereal calendar nor to the Seasonal calendar. Please do not jump to the conclusion that I have suggested celebration of Mahashivaratri on the Winter solstice day. As I have shown above the shastraic precedence is to celebrate the festival in a Sidereal month and not in the Seasonal month. So the sidereal root persists. The Winter solstice at the time of Mahashivaratri in those days was a coincidence.

 

As regards the logic for celebrating the festival when the Sun enters the Makar rashi one must realise that these esoteric principles have not questioned by the Hindus in the past. Until one can conclusively / convincingly prove that the celebration of the Makar Sankranti is absolutely unshastraic one should not give up the tradition of celebration of the Makar Sankranti as is being observed today.

 

There is no injunction for celebrating the Winter Solstice Punyakala in the Hindu shastras. However if one wants to observe it one can definitely observe the 21st December as the Winter Solstice punyakala and nobody should object to it.One can even call this day as the Surya Jayanti or as the birthday of the Sun like the Romans used to observe the Winter Solstice day as the birthday of Mitra. In all religion the tradition plays important role. Jesus christ was not born on December 25 yet his birth day is onserved on the 25th December and I am sure that you are aware of this.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, Koenraad <koenraad.elst@ telenet.be> wrote:

 

Koenraad <koenraad.elst@ telenet.be>

[ind-Arch] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

IndiaArchaeology

Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 7:53 AM

 

 

 

IndiaArchaeology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

 

>

 

> Uttarayana means the period of six month of the northern course of the Sun. The Makar Sankranti is observed in Uttarayana even now though the start of the Uttarayana is before the Makar sankranti. During the period of Vedanga Jyotisha the Uttarayana started in the first haif of the Dhanistha Nakshatra ie. it occurred in the end of the Makar Rashi. Thus at that time the Makar Sankramana occurred before the start of the Uttarayana. Once explained a school boy will understand this and I hope this will not be difficult for you to understand.<

 

This amounts to slamming an open door. Jyotirved certainly knows all this. The point, hiwever, is that there is nothing important or worth celebrating about the entry of the sun into Makara, an event perfectly unnoticed by any except the most expert and focused observers on earth. By contrast, the Uttarayana day/Solstice is truly special, a consequential event for the life processes on earth, and directly observable from the place on the SE horizon where the sun rises. Makar Sankranti is totally unimportant when falling before (as in Lagadha's day) or after (as now) the Solstice, and when coindicing with the Solstice, it is still only the Solstice that confers some temporary importance on it.

 

> In the Brahmana of the Veda we find that at one time the Mahashivaratri fell on the start of the Uttarayana, ie. on the first day of the seasonal month of Tapas (and the astronomers will tell you that this time period was in the third millennium BCE). These days it does not fall on the day of the start of Uttarayana. Ask the schoolboy (whom if you explain the above concept of Uttarayana) and he will tell you that in the Vedic reference the calendar followed for the Mahashivaratri was the Sidereal calendar and not the Seasonal calendar.<

 

This deserves closer study. Was there a continuous use of the Shivaratri festival? Likely but not certain. Religious history is full of revivals, revivifications of long-dead rituamls or beliefs. Someone may have picked it up from an old text and erestarted performing it.

 

The Brahmana may well have fixed the Solstice night, which had been a natural festival for ages, and given sidereal directions for it, ignorant of the changing nature of the reference to the so-called "fixed" stars. Next, the Hindus scripture-worshippi ng Hindus started ignoring the natural basis of the festival and observing the stellar instructions instead. Those is would then be a prefiguratyion fo what happened in the Puranic age, when tropical data were confused with sidereal ones.

 

> Darshaneyji, in spite of his good intentions prposed that in 2010 it should be celebrated in 12 tapasya, which defies all logic. It is neither according the Seasonal calendar nor according to the Sidereal calendar. If he strictly follows the Seasonal calendar then he should ask people to celebrate the Mahashivaratri on the Winter solstice day by quoting the precedence in the Veda. Hope this will not be difficult for

 

> you to undertand this.

 

>

 

Indeed, return to the common roots of all cosmic religions and celebrate the real Solstice, not its sidereal derivate.

 

Regards,

 

KE