Karna -The Astrologer

November 27, 2009

I disagree with the following comments of the author.

//# Karna is persuaded by Lord ,but to only Fight Arjun he refuses Krishna'sProposal [ Lord's command is not so important for him than his prestige [ego]that he will be declared coward . Lord could have as well made him a hero had heaccepted , NO faith ! ]# Karna is persuaded by Kunti and SOORYA . He admits he must obey them butcannot for the desire of Fighting Arjun . Karna does not grant what his MOTHERasks for , only for his good ! [ DAANVEER of no use to MOTHER ].//

There is no EGO in Karna. It is only being namak parayana, or being true to ones duty. Duryodhana gave him prestige, kingship, friendship and what not. He does not care of being called a coward. But he is a good friend, a swami bhakt, a faithful and ethical person and knew that he was the only strength of Duryodhana and if now he joins the opposite camp, it would be akin to pushing a spear in his friends heart who needs support from him. He also knew very well that he is going to perish, but he will not walk on dishonest paths and unethical ways of behaviour. So karna is not a coward, and nor does he possess a Ego. he is a good man indeed if you view at him with an unbiased prejudice or approach.

Who says that he is not Danveer or of no use to his mother. He did promise her that she will have 5 sons of her living after the war is over. And he kept his promise. he could have killed all the other Brothers in single combat, and if one reads the Mahabharata war proerly it will be found that he indeed spared his brothers at times when he could have killed them. So one cannot say that he was of no use to his brother. He knew very well when he mentioned to his mother that "5 sons of Yours will live". He meant that " Yudhistara.Bhima,Nakula and sahdev shall nlot be touched by me. And you will ahve either me or Arjuna as living".

Bhaskar. , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear All,> The following is from:http://chiraan.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/karna-the-astrologer/> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> ===================================> Karna -The Astrologer> ---------------------> Posted by chiraan in Astroanalysis, Astrology and purana, Daiva vs Purushartha - can destiny be changed?, karma, mahabharath, people and astrology, yashas -success in career. Tagged: Karna, krishna, kshatriya, kuntee, soota. Leave a Comment> > When Krishna the lord of Universe offers Karna the lordship of the World to leave Duryodhan and side with Pandavas .> > Karn said – "You are right, Krishn, I now know that whatever you have said to me that Kuntee bore me when she was a maiden through her connection with Soorya. At the command of Soorya she abandoned me as soon as I was born without thinking of my welfare. Soot Adhirath found me and took me home. There his wife Raadhaa brought me up with all her affection. Adhirath gave me the name Vasusen. When I grew up, I married the wives according to his selections. I have now sons grandsons through them. My all rites and religious duties are performed with Soot. With Duryodhan I have enjoyed sovereignty for over 13 years. Now when Duryodhan has decided to fight with Paandav considering me as against Arjun, I cannot go back because of fear, death or bloodshed. If I do not indulge with Arjun in single combat, it will be an insult to both of us. > > I am sure that Paandav will do whatever you have said but for now, you must hide this for the benefit of both of us. Let Yudhishthir be king for ever. He has collected a great crowd of warriors. I am repenting for what I said to Paandav. Duryodhan is going to do a Yagya. When you will see me slain by Arjun then Punachiti of this Yagya will begin, when you will see Bheem drinking the blood of Dushaasan's chest then the Som drinking of this Yagya will take place, and when the two sons of Drupad – Shikhandee and Drishtdyumn will overthrow Bheeshm and Drone, then this Yagya will be suspended for interval. When Bheem will kill Duryodhan then the Yagya of Duryodhan will be concluded. When all Kuru women will lament for their husbands and sons in the battlefield without their protector, it will be the last bath of this Yagya. [ Karna predicts the future ]> > I just pray you that don't let these Kshatriya be perished miserably for thy sake. Let them die by weapons in the most sacred place among the three worlds. Whatever you have in mind, accomplish it on this spot only. Till I face Arjun in the field, keep our talks secret."> > Krishn said – "O Karn, Don't you wish to rule over the whole world? You know that Paandav's victory is certain. Divine Bhaum has set up Hanumaan banner like Indra's banner. Extended for one Yojan it will never be obstructed by any thing. When Arjun will twang his bow then that signs off all Yug (Sat, Tretaa and Dwapar). All kings will get excellent state after dying for Duryodhan in the battlefield." Karn worshipped Krishn and said – "Knowing everything why do you want to baffle me? This war is going to happen. The great fierce planet Shani (Saturn) is afflicting the Nakshatra Rohinee which indicates the destruction on Prithvi. Mars is coming to Nakshatra Anuraadhaa through Jyeshthaa indicating a great a slaughter of friends. Certainly a great calamity will come over Kuru family when the planet Mahaapat will afflicts the Nakshatra Chitraa. Moon's position has changed and Raahu is also proceeding towards Soorya. A black circle surrounding the solar disc appears to view." [ Karna's command on astrology can be seen here ]> > Krishn said – "Yes, The destruction of the world is at hand but you are not agreeing for it." Karn said – "If we have come out of the war then we will meet here again, otherwise we shall surely meet in Heaven." and embraced Krishn very hard. Keshav dismissed him and he came back with us."> > > > Kunti went to Gangaa River where she heard Vedic mantra chanting by her son. Karn was standing facing east, so Kuntee stood waiting behind him burning in hot Sun. Then she shifted under the shade of upper cloth of Karn. And Karn continued his prayers until his back was very hot with Sun. Then he turned back and was surprised to see Kuntee standing there. He saluted her properly and bowing his head Vrish (Karn), the son of Vikartan (Adhirath), said to her – "I am Karn, Raadhaa and Adhirath's sson. Why have you come here and what can I do for you?"> > Kuntee said – "You are Kuntee's son, not Raadhaa's, nor your father is Adhirath, nor you are born in a Soot family. I bore you when I was a maiden. You were born in the palace of Kuntibhoj. I gave you birth in my father's house along with Kavach and Kundal on your body. You stand in Duryodhan's camp not knowing your brothers, is not proper. Duryodhan has wickedly snatched Yudhishthir's wealth. You take that wealth back from them and enjoy it. Let people call you like Raam Balraam. If you both are united what is in this world which cannot be accomplished?"> > As Kuntee finished, Karn heard a soft loving voice coming from Soorya – "What Prithaa is saying is true. Follow her words, it is for your good." Karn could not answer immediately because his heart was following only truth. He said – "I cannot accept what you have said to me. Although I should obey you as you are my mother. You abandoned me as soon as I was born. This was the greatest injury you did to my life and fame. Thus I was deprived of all the rights of Kshatriya. You have never thought about my good before this and you are telling me something for my good today? Who is not afraid of Arjun? And if I go to Paandav today, people will say that "I did so because of fright". Just to fulfill my own desires how can I leave Duryodhan's friendship? They always respect me, bow down to me and wait on me. I will surely fight with Paandav. However except Arjun, your other four sons will not be slain by me. I will fight only with Arjun. Whether he will be slain, or me, in both cases my life will be glorified and your five sons will always be alive."> > ————————————————————–end of extract ———————————————————> > Points to be noted in the above speech by Karna ;> > * Karna Knew he was going to be slained by ARJUN> * Karna had complete knowledge of the Planetary scenario at the MAhabharata WAR , he was great astrologer as he completely predicts the future about Bheem slaying Kauravs .> * Karna was chanting Vedic mantra [ Only higher caste chant VEdic mantra , Karna was not considered Low born as depicted ,soota is not low caste or untouchable]> * One's birth is not alone important in determining caste as much as His Sanskara , Karna had sanskara as SOOTA ,mark Karna's words , and hence He remained a SOOTA all along even if Duryodhan gave him Kingdom, even if he was born a Kshatriya . This was the point made in Vidyapradarshan BY BHEESHMA , when he objected to Arjun fighting Karna . That a Kshatriya should not fight with Soota at the competition .> * Karna admits to Duryodhan's Soverignty to as recent as 13 years and Not from the day He was made the King . why?> > * Karna was made the King when Yudhisthir and Duryodhan were around 25 years of Age .> * Then intermittently pandavas suffered treason in Varnavat .> * Then they were married in disguise .> * When Pandavas went to Vanvas , Yudhisthir was 57 years old .> * When they came back Yudhisthir was 70 years old .> * So Karna should have told 50 years of soverignty , why 13 years .> * because After Raajsooya Yagnya his Kingdom was snatched by BHEEMASEN and given back to him after his acceptance of soverignty of Yudhisthir .> * The kingdom of Yudhisthir was usurped in dice by Duryodhan and hence 13 years of soverignty .> > # Karna is persuaded by Lord ,but to only Fight Arjun he refuses Krishna's Proposal [ Lord's command is not so important for him than his prestige [ego] that he will be declared coward . Lord could have as well made him a hero had he accepted , NO faith ! ]> # Karna is persuaded by Kunti and SOORYA . He admits he must obey them but cannot for the desire of Fighting Arjun . Karna does not grant what his MOTHER asks for , only for his good ! [ DAANVEER of no use to MOTHER ].> > krishnarpanamastu.> ===================================>

November 27, 2009

My personal View -

Karna was a good man with a righteous approach and norms of ethical and

moral behaviours. He did what was the right path to be chosen. Krishna

also has blessed him for this path chosen. I wish the total context

could come here from wherever these dialouges have been penned. Such men

dont go the hells, but to the heavens for they are dutiful and know the

right way of conducts when they are living.

Bhaskar.

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> I disagree with the following comments of the author.

>

> //# Karna is persuaded by Lord ,but to only Fight Arjun he refuses

> Krishna's

> Proposal [ Lord's command is not so important for him than his

prestige

> [ego]

> that he will be declared coward . Lord could have as well made him a

> hero had he

> accepted , NO faith ! ]

> # Karna is persuaded by Kunti and SOORYA . He admits he must obey them

> but

> cannot for the desire of Fighting Arjun . Karna does not grant what

his

> MOTHER

> asks for , only for his good ! [ DAANVEER of no use to MOTHER ].//

>

> There is no EGO in Karna. It is only being namak parayana, or being

true

> to ones duty. Duryodhana gave him prestige, kingship, friendship and

> what not. He does not care of being called a coward. But he is a good

> friend, a swami bhakt, a faithful and ethical person and knew that he

> was the only strength of Duryodhana and if now he joins the opposite

> camp, it would be akin to pushing a spear in his friends heart who

needs

> support from him. He also knew very well that he is going to perish,

but

> he will not walk on dishonest paths and unethical ways of behaviour.

So

> karna is not a coward, and nor does he possess a Ego. he is a good man

> indeed if you view at him with an unbiased prejudice or approach.

>

> Who says that he is not Danveer or of no use to his mother. He did

> promise her that she will have 5 sons of her living after the war is

> over. And he kept his promise. he could have killed all the other

> Brothers in single combat, and if one reads the Mahabharata war

proerly

> it will be found that he indeed spared his brothers at times when he

> could have killed them. So one cannot say that he was of no use to his

> brother. He knew very well when he mentioned to his mother that " 5

sons

> of Yours will live " . He meant that " Yudhistara.Bhima,Nakula and

sahdev

> shall nlot be touched by me. And you will ahve either me or Arjuna as

> living " .

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " sreesog " sreesog@

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> > The following is

> from:http://chiraan.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/karna-the-astrologer/

> > Love and regards,

> > Sreenadh

> > ===================================

> > Karna -The Astrologer

> > ---------------------

> > Posted by chiraan in Astroanalysis, Astrology and purana, Daiva vs

> Purushartha - can destiny be changed?, karma, mahabharath, people and

> astrology, yashas -success in career. Tagged: Karna, krishna,

kshatriya,

> kuntee, soota. Leave a Comment

> >

> > When Krishna the lord of Universe offers Karna the lordship of the

> World to leave Duryodhan and side with Pandavas .

> >

> > Karn said – " You are right, Krishn, I now know that whatever you

> have said to me that Kuntee bore me when she was a maiden through her

> connection with Soorya. At the command of Soorya she abandoned me as

> soon as I was born without thinking of my welfare. Soot Adhirath found

> me and took me home. There his wife Raadhaa brought me up with all her

> affection. Adhirath gave me the name Vasusen. When I grew up, I

married

> the wives according to his selections. I have now sons grandsons

through

> them. My all rites and religious duties are performed with Soot. With

> Duryodhan I have enjoyed sovereignty for over 13 years. Now when

> Duryodhan has decided to fight with Paandav considering me as against

> Arjun, I cannot go back because of fear, death or bloodshed. If I do

not

> indulge with Arjun in single combat, it will be an insult to both of

us.

> >

> > I am sure that Paandav will do whatever you have said but for now,

you

> must hide this for the benefit of both of us. Let Yudhishthir be king

> for ever. He has collected a great crowd of warriors. I am repenting

for

> what I said to Paandav. Duryodhan is going to do a Yagya. When you

will

> see me slain by Arjun then Punachiti of this Yagya will begin, when

you

> will see Bheem drinking the blood of Dushaasan's chest then the Som

> drinking of this Yagya will take place, and when the two sons of

Drupad

> – Shikhandee and Drishtdyumn will overthrow Bheeshm and Drone,

then

> this Yagya will be suspended for interval. When Bheem will kill

> Duryodhan then the Yagya of Duryodhan will be concluded. When all Kuru

> women will lament for their husbands and sons in the battlefield

without

> their protector, it will be the last bath of this Yagya. [ Karna

> predicts the future ]

> >

> > I just pray you that don't let these Kshatriya be perished miserably

> for thy sake. Let them die by weapons in the most sacred place among

the

> three worlds. Whatever you have in mind, accomplish it on this spot

> only. Till I face Arjun in the field, keep our talks secret. "

> >

> > Krishn said – " O Karn, Don't you wish to rule over the whole

> world? You know that Paandav's victory is certain. Divine Bhaum has

set

> up Hanumaan banner like Indra's banner. Extended for one Yojan it will

> never be obstructed by any thing. When Arjun will twang his bow then

> that signs off all Yug (Sat, Tretaa and Dwapar). All kings will get

> excellent state after dying for Duryodhan in the battlefield. " Karn

> worshipped Krishn and said – " Knowing everything why do you want

to

> baffle me? This war is going to happen. The great fierce planet Shani

> (Saturn) is afflicting the Nakshatra Rohinee which indicates the

> destruction on Prithvi. Mars is coming to Nakshatra Anuraadhaa through

> Jyeshthaa indicating a great a slaughter of friends. Certainly a great

> calamity will come over Kuru family when the planet Mahaapat will

> afflicts the Nakshatra Chitraa. Moon's position has changed and Raahu

is

> also proceeding towards Soorya. A black circle surrounding the solar

> disc appears to view. " [ Karna's command on astrology can be seen here

]

> >

> > Krishn said – " Yes, The destruction of the world is at hand but

> you are not agreeing for it. " Karn said – " If we have come out of

> the war then we will meet here again, otherwise we shall surely meet

in

> Heaven. " and embraced Krishn very hard. Keshav dismissed him and he

came

> back with us. "

> >

> > Kunti went to Gangaa River where she heard Vedic mantra chanting by

> her son. Karn was standing facing east, so Kuntee stood waiting behind

> him burning in hot Sun. Then she shifted under the shade of upper

cloth

> of Karn. And Karn continued his prayers until his back was very hot

with

> Sun. Then he turned back and was surprised to see Kuntee standing

there.

> He saluted her properly and bowing his head Vrish (Karn), the son of

> Vikartan (Adhirath), said to her – " I am Karn, Raadhaa and

> Adhirath's sson. Why have you come here and what can I do for you? "

> >

> > Kuntee said – " You are Kuntee's son, not Raadhaa's, nor your

> father is Adhirath, nor you are born in a Soot family. I bore you when

I

> was a maiden. You were born in the palace of Kuntibhoj. I gave you

birth

> in my father's house along with Kavach and Kundal on your body. You

> stand in Duryodhan's camp not knowing your brothers, is not proper.

> Duryodhan has wickedly snatched Yudhishthir's wealth. You take that

> wealth back from them and enjoy it. Let people call you like Raam

> Balraam. If you both are united what is in this world which cannot be

> accomplished? "

> >

> > As Kuntee finished, Karn heard a soft loving voice coming from

Soorya

> – " What Prithaa is saying is true. Follow her words, it is for

your

> good. " Karn could not answer immediately because his heart was

following

> only truth. He said – " I cannot accept what you have said to me.

> Although I should obey you as you are my mother. You abandoned me as

> soon as I was born. This was the greatest injury you did to my life

and

> fame. Thus I was deprived of all the rights of Kshatriya. You have

never

> thought about my good before this and you are telling me something for

> my good today? Who is not afraid of Arjun? And if I go to Paandav

today,

> people will say that " I did so because of fright " . Just to fulfill my

> own desires how can I leave Duryodhan's friendship? They always

respect

> me, bow down to me and wait on me. I will surely fight with Paandav.

> However except Arjun, your other four sons will not be slain by me. I

> will fight only with Arjun. Whether he will be slain, or me, in both

> cases my life will be glorified and your five sons will always be

> alive. "

> >

> > ————————————————————–end of extract

> ———————————————————

> >

> > Points to be noted in the above speech by Karna ;

> >

> > * Karna Knew he was going to be slained by ARJUN

> > * Karna had complete knowledge of the Planetary scenario at the

> MAhabharata WAR , he was great astrologer as he completely predicts

the

> future about Bheem slaying Kauravs .

> > * Karna was chanting Vedic mantra [ Only higher caste chant VEdic

> mantra , Karna was not considered Low born as depicted ,soota is not

low

> caste or untouchable]

> > * One's birth is not alone important in determining caste as much as

> His Sanskara , Karna had sanskara as SOOTA ,mark Karna's words , and

> hence He remained a SOOTA all along even if Duryodhan gave him

Kingdom,

> even if he was born a Kshatriya . This was the point made in

> Vidyapradarshan BY BHEESHMA , when he objected to Arjun fighting Karna

..

> That a Kshatriya should not fight with Soota at the competition .

> > * Karna admits to Duryodhan's Soverignty to as recent as 13 years

and

> Not from the day He was made the King . why?

> >

> > * Karna was made the King when Yudhisthir and Duryodhan were around

25

> years of Age .

> > * Then intermittently pandavas suffered treason in Varnavat .

> > * Then they were married in disguise .

> > * When Pandavas went to Vanvas , Yudhisthir was 57 years old .

> > * When they came back Yudhisthir was 70 years old .

> > * So Karna should have told 50 years of soverignty , why 13 years .

> > * because After Raajsooya Yagnya his Kingdom was snatched by

BHEEMASEN

> and given back to him after his acceptance of soverignty of Yudhisthir

..

> > * The kingdom of Yudhisthir was usurped in dice by Duryodhan and

hence

> 13 years of soverignty .

> >

> > # Karna is persuaded by Lord ,but to only Fight Arjun he refuses

> Krishna's Proposal [ Lord's command is not so important for him than

his

> prestige [ego] that he will be declared coward . Lord could have as

well

> made him a hero had he accepted , NO faith ! ]

> > # Karna is persuaded by Kunti and SOORYA . He admits he must obey

them

> but cannot for the desire of Fighting Arjun . Karna does not grant

what

> his MOTHER asks for , only for his good ! [ DAANVEER of no use to

MOTHER

> ].

> >

> > krishnarpanamastu.

> > ===================================

> >

>

November 27, 2009

Dear Bhaskar ji,It is a popular opinion, but if we look up Vyasa Bharata, we get a totally different picture of Karna. When judged on any of the attributes - valor, commitment to friendship, dana guna, ego, morality, Karna does fall below the mark. Here is the piece on Karna from from an article I wrote on some of the the major characters of Mahabharata some time back:

1.

Karna

1.1. Valor

Basically,

putting valor aside, Karna had one quality: to run away from the field when the enemy proves stronger. Which is what made him show low in front of great Kurus like Bhishma and Arjuna. His curses combined with this quality were the reasons Bhishma categorized him as Artha rathi and not as a Maha rathi.

a)

Karna was taught by Drona with the permission of Kuru

rulers. When Drona asked for Guru dakshina, which is to arrest Drupada, Karna was there with Duryodhana and the entire army. They lost to Drupada, could not stand his army and came back showing their backs to Drupada. Immediately after this, just the five Pandavas went, without army, defeated and arrested Drupada, presented him in front of Drona as their Guru dakshina.

b)

Then not much of war, just a show where Arjuna and

Karna competed - no result.

c)

Ghosha yatra: The Gandharva Citrasena attacked the

Kaurava army, Karna ran away from him, unable to stand him. And Citrasena arrested Duryodhana and Arjuna-Bhima released Duryodhana upon Yudhistira's instruction.

We cannot say humans cannot fight Gandharvas, because Arjuna defeated Gandharvas, and Bhima defeated even Yakshas in different occasions.

d)

Gograhana: Arjuna alone, vanquished the entire Kaurava

army - with Aswatthama, Drona, Bhishma, Kripa, Duryodhana and Karna. Of these, some were defeated - Karna was defeated and he basically ran away from the field.

The Great

Mahabharata War:

e)

Abhimanyu defeated Karna

f)

Satyiki defeated Karna

g)

On the day Jayadratha was killed, Bhima was on fire. To

protect Duryodhana's brothers from gettign killed in Bhima's hands, Karna went. Bhima defeated Karna (mind you, with archery alone), then killed 5 brothers of Duryodhana. Karna came back. Then Bhima again defeated Karna, and killed 10 more brothers of Duryodhana. Again he defeated

Karna, and killed 10 more brothers of Duryodhana. Then he again took on Karna, but they went into an army of elephants. Then Bhima got out of his car, with his mace. At this point he came too close to Karna's chariot. Then Bhima had one option to break the car and Karna - he did not because Arjuna had taken oath to kill Karna. It is at this point, that Karna puts his bow around Bhima's neck and insults him.

Then Arjuna defeats Karna, takes Bhima on his chariot, and rebukes Karna for behaving cheaply. While Bhima defeated Karna so many times, he does not insult Karna. But the one chance Karna gets, he shows his character.

h)

Again, the day Karna is killed - Bhima fights Karna,

and Karna faints. When Bhima, out of anger, tries to cut his tongue off - Salya saves Karna by asking Bhima to leave him and go away.

i)

Karna loses to Arjuna in every encounter, and Arjuna is

called Vijaya- he has not been defeated anytime. The only one single occasion when Karna gets advantage is when he uses Nagastra that hits Arjuna's helmet. And there is nothing about Brahmastra here, because Arjuna never had to use it in the entire war.

2. Friendship

Following valor, the next to be

talked is his friendship. This is another point on which we hear a lot of rallying around Karna. We can see what aspects of friendship did Karna satisfy.

a)

There are three grades of friendship - 1. Out of mutual

affection, 2. Out of common cause, 3. Out of common enmity. These are uttama, madhyama and adhama kinds.

There are two contrasting pairs of friends in Mahabharata. Krishna-Arjuna is the first kind, and Karna-Duryodhana is the last kind. Krishna and Arjuna held each other's

side for their affection, for their commitment to dharma.

b)

While Karna and Duryodhana stuck to each other, out of

strategic enmity. Karna to vanquish Arjuna, and Duryodhana to vanquish Pandavas with Karna's help.

Next, friendship, as it is defined, a good friend is one who guides us in the right path, makes us do things for our well-being. While we see Krishna always guiding Arjuna on the right

path, Karna always guided Duryodhana on the wrong. He not only persuaded Duryodhana not to do wrong things, but in fact he was the architect of most unrighteous

deeds of Duryodhana - burning the palace of lac, insulting Draupadi, killing Abhimanyu through deceit, what not.

Not only, that,

but the false kind of confidence Karna gave to Duryodhana about his own skill and boasting of vanquishing Pandavas, was the inspiration for Duryodhana to go into the war, eliminate his clan and cause a huge human loss.

c)

A friend is one who stands by us in times of

difficulty. While Karna, in most of the occasions, has ditched Duryodhana in the middle of the war. Right from when they ran away from Drupada (while trying to fight and arrest Drupada as part of Gurudakshina), Karna could not be of help. In Ghosha yatra when Citrasena attacked their army, Karna, instead of trying to rescue Duryodhana, ran away first. He did the same in Gograhana when Arjuna was slaying their armies. Karna left Duryodhana to his fate and fleed.

So not only from valor perspective, but even as a good friend, Karna basically failed Duryodhana.

3. Dharma Nistha

Karna was among the most Adharmic

characters of Mahabharata. We say someone is Dharmic, if the purpose of his

actions is Dharma, and when it is not arbitrary, but consistent. When we talk of a person, it is good to list out what his dharma is, and then evaluate how much he stood for it. So in case of Karna, these are the applicable ones:

a)

Raja Dharma: Karna is appointed the king of Anga, and

became a king. Karna, as a samanta of Duryodhana, executed his duties well. Though there is no special mention or praise for his ruler ship, that is one thing he smoothly conducted.

b)

Kshatriya Dharma:

a.

A Kshatriya is not supposed to accept any favor from

anyone. This is demonstrated by many kings, including Pandavas. Rama was offered the heavenly worlds by the Rishis when he visits them during vana vasa, but Rama replies that being a Kshatriya he should not accept, but will earn those himself. Hariscandra, was offered help when in trouble, so that he could be bailed out. He too, refuses help as he is a Kshatriya.However, the beginning of Karna's career includes taking such

favors - he does not win but gets Anga Rajya as a favor. Also, he, along with Duryodhana's team, fails in giving Gurudakshina to Drona.

b.

A Kshatriya is not supposed to run away from the war,

even if it means death. Karna not only arbitrarily runs, but has the habit of running from the field. He ran away in the following occasions:

i.

When he fought Drupada to arrest him and present him as Gurudakshina to Drona

ii.

When the Gandharva Citrasena fights them during Ghosha

yatra

iii.

During Gograhana, unable to withstand Arjuna

iv.

In the war, he runs multiple times in the few days he fights - from Bhima, Arjuna, Satyiki, Abhimanyu

c)

Mitra dharma:

i.

A friend's duty is to guide, as a well wisher, and make

the friend do what is good for him. Sreya (one that gets good) and Preya (what

we want) are two things and it is the responsibility of a friend to do both,

and when there is a contention, choose sreya. Karna chose to tell preya to

Duryodhana, even if it meant destruction, thus being a bad friend. He guided

Duryodhana on the path of unrighteousness.

ii.

A friend should be with us, in times of need. Karna did

fight the

war on Duryodhana's side, like others - Aswatthama, Drona, Kripa,

Bhishma, Vikarna who knew Dharma was on the other side but it was their Dharma

to fight on Duryodhana's side. But unlike those, Karna left Duryodhana many

times in the field to be arrested:

1.

Ghosha Yatra

2.

Gograhana

3.

Duryodhana was defeated multiple times in the war, by

Yudhistira, Arjuna, Nakula. It was in front of Karna's eyes, that Duryodhana's

brothers were killed by Bhima. Karna's valor not only proved useless in

stopping Bhima, but in turn it was Duryodhana who sacrificed his brothers to

save Karna.

d)

Vyakti Dharma: A Dharmic person is supposed to act

dispassionately, according to Dharma. His actions should be based on dharma and

not on preferences.

Whereas Karna's actions, most of the times, are driven by strong negative tendencies:

a.

Jealousy for Arjuna was one motivator for his life.

During vidyabhyasa, when the princes were to display their martial arts, Arjuna did, so as Bhima and other princes. Karna asked for a chance and he was immediately given chance by Drona to exhibit his skill. But he did not stop there, he wanted to fight Arjuna. It was then that he was insulted and consequently given Angarajya. The same was the reason he

approached Drona for Brahmastra. Drona refuses, since his motive is based on

enmity and not loka kalyana. Then he approaches Parasurama for the same and

lies to him that he is a brahmana. Parasurama, being noble, curses Karna only to the extent that he gave instruction and not for entire astra vidya of Karna. Even here, it is clear that Karna put his enmity above Dharma.

Very few know that Karna had a sense of competition with Arjuna even in dana guna. There is a story where a brahmin goes to Arjuna while it was raining, and asks for wood. Arjuna says he cannot give. Then he goes to Karna and says he needs wood for cooking. Karna asks him if he went to Arjuna, is pleased by the reply, and then gives him the wood from his own house - by breaking a pillar of his palace.

The technical aspect in dana guna is that it should be done purely as a matter of principle and not for any return. The moment there is a return, then it does not remain dana. And Karna giving his natural armor to Indra is such. Karna's desire in doing dana is to get the power to slay Arjuna. And the moment he gives his armor to Indra, Indra gives him the Sakti which is capable of slaying anyone. There, that very moment, Karna's offering is returned with something that is capable of fulfilling his desire. He used it to save his life from Ghatotkaca later, but that is a different thing. (That again proves that power cannot do anything when you are not on the side of Dharma.)

Contrasting this with Arjuna, his virtue was purely a virtue, and not a rule or contract. When a brahmin approaches him to save his cattle, he goes, knowing that he has to pass through and disturb Yudhistira's

privacy if he has to take his weapons. The arrangement was that he had to do vanavasa if he did that. But Arjuna being noble, saves the brahmin's cattle, then goes to vanavasa. (Of course, he gets more astras, marries Subhadra and gets benefited in many ways. And this proves that if you are by Dharma your wellbeing is ensured.)

It is the same jealousy for Arjuna, that makes Karna insult Draupadi. It is the same jealousy, that makes him conspire Laksha griha, engineer the murder of Abhimanyu and many other unrighteous deeds. A person, however knowledgeable he may be, will turn into a wretch if he surrenders to qualities like envy - and entire life of Karna stands for it.

b.

Karna lacks the dignity of a king. He bad mouthed those

revered like Bhishma and Drona, in multiple occasions - Gograhana, during Krishna's rayabara, before the treacherous

game of dice and before the war begins. The reasons:

i.

they praise Arjuna

ii.

they want to do good to Duryodhana and prevent him from inviting his death

iii.

they adjudged Karna's valor, with a balancesheet based

on his capabilities and weaknesses

e)

Karna's death: He was killed when he was standing

without a weapon, and that was the inspiration of Krishna

to punish Karna for what he did. Technically, a person who has Brahmastra and Pasupata cannot be defeated and Arjuna, along with Bhima, was ajeya, who cannot be slain. They were the only ones in entire Dwapara Yuga who could not be defeated. So it was out of question that Karna could defeat Arjuna. And with Pasupata or Brahmastra or any other Divya astra, Arjuna could have easily slain Karna any moment he wanted.

(But Arjuna was

principled to the hilt - he did not use those astras because they should not be used for selfish reasons, and against an enemy who is weaker. While Karna tried to gain and use those purely for selfish reasons, that too negative. Also by Astra vidya or tapas Karna was much inferior to Arjuna who was none but Nara maha rishi taking another life to continue his tapas. For both the reasons, Arjuna did not use those astras. He uses Brahma siro namaka, against Aswatthama, that too as a response to his astra. And he takes it back when Rishis ask him to. While Aswatthama still does not, and directs it on Uttara's womb. Even at his own loss, Arjuna heeds to elders' words, withdraws instead of using his astras.) Instead of

killing Karna in an encounter, killing him when he was helpless was to teach him that he did similar things which were wrong.

ShankarBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 1:43:24 PM Re: Karna -The Astrologer

I disagree with the following comments of the author.

//# Karna is persuaded by Lord ,but to only Fight Arjun he refuses Krishna'sProposal [ Lord's command is not so important for him than his prestige [ego]that he will be declared coward . Lord could have as well made him a hero had heaccepted , NO faith ! ]# Karna is persuaded by Kunti and SOORYA . He admits he must obey them butcannot for the desire of Fighting Arjun . Karna does not grant what his MOTHERasks for , only for his good ! [ DAANVEER of no use to MOTHER ].//

There is no EGO in Karna. It is only being namak parayana, or being true to ones duty. Duryodhana gave him prestige, kingship, friendship and what not. He does not care of being called a coward. But he is a good friend, a swami bhakt, a faithful and ethical person and knew that he was the only strength of Duryodhana and if now he joins the opposite camp, it would be akin to pushing a spear in his friends heart who needs support from him. He also knew very well that he is going to perish, but he will not walk on dishonest paths and unethical ways of behaviour. So karna is not a coward, and nor does he possess a Ego. he is a good man indeed if you view at him with an unbiased prejudice or approach.

Who says that he is not Danveer or of no use to his mother. He did promise her that she will have 5 sons of her living after the war is over. And he kept his promise. he could have killed all the other Brothers in single combat, and if one reads the Mahabharata war proerly it will be found that he indeed spared his brothers at times when he could have killed them. So one cannot say that he was of no use to his brother. He knew very well when he mentioned to his mother that "5 sons of Yours will live". He meant that " Yudhistara.Bhima, Nakula and sahdev shall nlot be touched by me. And you will ahve either me or Arjuna as living".

Bhaskar.

November 27, 2009

Dear Bhaskar ji,

Karna is the most beautiful character I like in Mahabharata, and feel in tune

with. He is my most favorite character. If I were in place of Karna, I would

have taken the same decision and would have followed the same path - ditto!

I cannot find any other character in Mahabharata to be compared with him - he

was so unique! May be so are others, but I feel my self resonating to his

thoughts and feelings than with anyone else - and so I like him most.

//Such men dont go the hells, but to the heavens//

Hell or Heaven doesn't matter - it is 'Swa-dharma' (own nature) that matters.

When swa-dharma (own original nature) is given importance, everything else is

irrelevant.

Love and regards,

Sreenadh

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> My personal View -

>

> Karna was a good man with a righteous approach and norms of ethical and

> moral behaviours. He did what was the right path to be chosen. Krishna

> also has blessed him for this path chosen. I wish the total context

> could come here from wherever these dialouges have been penned. Such men

> dont go the hells, but to the heavens for they are dutiful and know the

> right way of conducts when they are living.

>

> Bhaskar.

November 27, 2009

One of the several "favors" the Nastika matas did to Sanatana Dharma is the reversal of Pauranic characters, showing the Pauranic heroes in negative light and glorifying the negative characters. Much of what we see about the MBH villiany and heroic is portrayed not just in recent films, but their origin is found in the pervert commentaries of Nastika mata scholars. Reversal of MBH characters specifically, is found in Pampa's commentary. Shankar

ShankaraBharadwaj Khandavalli <shankarabharadwaj Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:09:19 PM Re: Karna -The Astrologer

Dear Bhaskar ji,It is a popular opinion, but if we look up Vyasa Bharata, we get a totally different picture of Karna. When judged on any of the attributes - valor, commitment to friendship, dana guna, ego, morality, Karna does fall below the mark. Here is the piece on Karna from from an article I wrote on some of the the major characters of Mahabharata some time back: 1.

Karna 1.1. Valor Basically,

putting valor aside, Karna had one quality: to run away from the field when the enemy proves stronger. Which is what made him show low in front of great Kurus like Bhishma and Arjuna. His curses combined with this quality were the reasons Bhishma categorized him as Artha rathi and not as a Maha rathi.

a)

Karna was taught by Drona with the permission of Kuru

rulers. When Drona asked for Guru dakshina, which is to arrest Drupada, Karna was there with Duryodhana and the entire army. They lost to Drupada, could not stand his army and came back showing their backs to Drupada. Immediately after this, just the five Pandavas went, without army, defeated and arrested Drupada, presented him in front of Drona as their Guru dakshina.

b)

Then not much of war, just a show where Arjuna and

Karna competed - no result.

c)

Ghosha yatra: The Gandharva Citrasena attacked the

Kaurava army, Karna ran away from him, unable to stand him. And Citrasena arrested Duryodhana and Arjuna-Bhima released Duryodhana upon Yudhistira's instruction.

We cannot say humans cannot fight Gandharvas, because Arjuna defeated Gandharvas, and Bhima defeated even Yakshas in different occasions.

d)

Gograhana: Arjuna alone, vanquished the entire Kaurava

army - with Aswatthama, Drona, Bhishma, Kripa, Duryodhana and Karna. Of these, some were defeated - Karna was defeated and he basically ran away from the field.

The Great

Mahabharata War:

e)

Abhimanyu defeated Karna

f)

Satyiki defeated Karna

g)

On the day Jayadratha was killed, Bhima was on fire. To

protect Duryodhana's brothers from gettign killed in Bhima's hands, Karna went. Bhima defeated Karna (mind you, with archery alone), then killed 5 brothers of Duryodhana. Karna came back. Then Bhima again defeated Karna, and killed 10 more brothers of Duryodhana. Again he defeated

Karna, and killed 10 more brothers of Duryodhana. Then he again took on Karna, but they went into an army of elephants. Then Bhima got out of his car, with his mace. At this point he came too close to Karna's chariot. Then Bhima had one option to break the car and Karna - he did not because Arjuna had taken oath to kill Karna. It is at this point, that Karna puts his bow around Bhima's neck and insults him.

Then Arjuna defeats Karna, takes Bhima on his chariot, and rebukes Karna for behaving cheaply. While Bhima defeated Karna so many times, he does not insult Karna. But the one chance Karna gets, he shows his character.

h)

Again, the day Karna is killed - Bhima fights Karna,

and Karna faints. When Bhima, out of anger, tries to cut his tongue off - Salya saves Karna by asking Bhima to leave him and go away.

i)

Karna loses to Arjuna in every encounter, and Arjuna is

called Vijaya- he has not been defeated anytime. The only one single occasion when Karna gets advantage is when he uses Nagastra that hits Arjuna's helmet. And there is nothing about Brahmastra here, because Arjuna never had to use it in the entire war.

2. Friendship Following valor, the next to be

talked is his friendship. This is another point on which we hear a lot of rallying around Karna. We can see what aspects of friendship did Karna satisfy.

a)

There are three grades of friendship - 1. Out of mutual

affection, 2. Out of common cause, 3. Out of common enmity. These are uttama, madhyama and adhama kinds.

There are two contrasting pairs of friends in Mahabharata. Krishna-Arjuna is the first kind, and Karna-Duryodhana is the last kind. Krishna and Arjuna held each other's

side for their affection, for their commitment to dharma.

b)

While Karna and Duryodhana stuck to each other, out of

strategic enmity. Karna to vanquish Arjuna, and Duryodhana to vanquish Pandavas with Karna's help.

Next, friendship, as it is defined, a good friend is one who guides us in the right path, makes us do things for our well-being. While we see Krishna always guiding Arjuna on the right

path, Karna always guided Duryodhana on the wrong. He not only persuaded Duryodhana not to do wrong things, but in fact he was the architect of most unrighteous

deeds of Duryodhana - burning the palace of lac, insulting Draupadi, killing Abhimanyu through deceit, what not.

Not only, that,

but the false kind of confidence Karna gave to Duryodhana about his own skill and boasting of vanquishing Pandavas, was the inspiration for Duryodhana to go into the war, eliminate his clan and cause a huge human loss.

c)

A friend is one who stands by us in times of

difficulty. While Karna, in most of the occasions, has ditched Duryodhana in the middle of the war. Right from when they ran away from Drupada (while trying to fight and arrest Drupada as part of Gurudakshina) , Karna could not be of help. In Ghosha yatra when Citrasena attacked their army, Karna, instead of trying to rescue Duryodhana, ran away first. He did the same in Gograhana when Arjuna was slaying their armies. Karna left Duryodhana to his fate and fleed.

So not only from valor perspective, but even as a good friend, Karna basically failed Duryodhana.

3. Dharma Nistha Karna was among the most Adharmic