Guest guest Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Dear members,Shakata yoga is the most mis-understood yogas. Would invite members to discuss reasons for this yoga, causing extreme poverty.Libra Lagna Moon = 10 HL, Jupiter = 3HL & 6HL. Jupiter in 6H aspecting 10H, 12H & 2H = can it really make him pauper ?? Can the benevolent Guru really shows animosity towards his contemporary Venus ?? Cancer LagnaMoon =LL , Jupiter = 6HL & 9HL.How can Jupiter in 6HL (same as above) having dual responsibility of 9H - can it really make the native to run for his living ?? With regards,Sreeram_Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Dear All, I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8 combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind). This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position. This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the menustrual cycles. The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful Thanks and Best Regards Sasibhushan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Dear Sasi Bhushan ji, //As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga (lunar yoga) works more.// " Your Analysis " - based on what?! Why should Sunabha Yoga " works more " ? Deoes any text (in your knowledge) define any such PRIORITY - for Sunabha yoga over Sakata yoga? I don't think that this derivation is logical. //but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems.// Where it is told that benfic malefic nature of planets should be considered while deciding on the effect of Sakata Yoga?!! I never saw any such guidance - and since while dealing with Sakata yoga neither Phaladeepika nor Jataka parijata mentioned the same, I am sure that it is irrelevent to the context and yoga under consideration. //It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.// Based on what you are deriving this conclusion? The texts does not support your argument nor some of the charts I came accross! Have you at least cross checked your conclusion in some charts at least or not? What was your sample size? Now coming to the texual gauidance - As per Phala Deepika, the 6th-8th-12th position of MOON FROM JUPITER from Jupiter should give Sakata Yoga; and the results ascribed is DOWNs AND UPS in life a Vehicle WHEEL. Please note that Phaladeepika ascribes several good results such as popularity, regaining of everything lost etc to Sakata yoga as well (along with the bad results). As per Jataka Parijata, the 6th-8th position of JUPITER FROM MOON should give Sakata yoga; and the results ascribed is extreem poverty (of loss of wealth) but this text too does ascribe some good results too for this yoga. Since the 6th-8th and 8th-6th positions are applicable vice-versa, it is irrelevent whether the counting is from MOON OR JUPITER in those cases and so there is no difference of opininon between Phaladeepika and Jataka Parijata on that case. Now coming to the 12th position of Moon from Jupiter is concerned, only Phala deepika mentions this. Ofcourse Jupiter in 2nd from Moon is Sunabha yoga. BUT " since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS " in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo the results of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near all of his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts (result given by Sunnapha yoga). Check any chart with this combination (Moon in 12th from Jupiter) that you came accross (for the period of Moon or Jupiter dasa antara) and you can easly confirm this. Hope this helps. Note 1: Since I have this yoga in my own chart, you can consider that also as an example chart. Note 2: A detailed discussion on this yoga happened between me and Suresh Kumar AG in kerala_vedic_astrology group, and if you want you can cross check those messages as well, to get a clearer picture. Love and regards, Sreenadh , Sasi Bhushan <bhushaniyer wrote: > > Dear All, > > I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding > the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga > (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon > and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the > dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter > transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8 > combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not > sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of > confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go > awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since > jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind). > > This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for > Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any > ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with > shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position. > > This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in > horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and > health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in > taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during > Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the > transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a > result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between > jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the > horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women > (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the > menustrual cycles. > > The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful > > Thanks and Best Regards > Sasibhushan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Dear Sasibhushan ji,// definetly there will be lots of confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind). This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.//Yes,these things i also found corect....Love and regards,gopi. , Sasi Bhushan <bhushaniyer wrote:>> Dear All,> > I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding> the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga> (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon> and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the> dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter> transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8> combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not> sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of> confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go> awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since> jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind).> > This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for> Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any> ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with> shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.> > This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in> horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and> health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in> taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during> Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the> transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a> result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between> jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the> horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women> (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the> menustrual cycles.> > The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful> > Thanks and Best Regards> Sasibhushan> > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:47 AM, sreesog sreesog wrote:> > >> >> > kerala_vedic_astrology <kerala_vedic_astrology%40>,> > Girish menon horamag@ wrote:> >> > Dear Kurshiji> >> > I agree with you.Though Dr.B.V.Raman is not godfather of> > astrology, he has made us to read astrology. The educated members of the> > society started learning astrology after reading the books of Dr. Raman> >> > Â> >> > I like to give a recent example which convinced me to follow> > our older traditions written by our acharyas> >> > I had last month attended a seminar in Bangalore organized by B.V.Raman son> > Niranjan> > Babu.> >> > There I had the privilege to listen to Dr T.S.Vasan lecture.> >> > They are uploading the seminar lecture in their website> > soon.> >> > In his lecture he spoke the importance of pushkar navamsa> > and while judging any chart one must study the placement of planets in> > pushkar> > navamsa. It was a new subject to me and I wanted to do study on this> > subject. I> > remember Dr. Vasan giving ex of Ramakrishna Hegde and Deve Gowda both> > former> > chief ministers of Karnataka. According to him Hegde had one planet in> > pushkar> > navamsa and deve gowda has 3 planets in pushkar navamsa ie the reason hedge> > beacame> > CM and Deve Gowda became PM.> >> > I came back and started doing study on this subject.> >> > I checked my chart and Amitabh chart as a beginning and in> > my chart I have I have 4 planets in pushkar navamsa and amitabh had only> > one.> > That explains everything. I wrote to Sureshji and he told me that he has> > 100> > horoscopes where he can give examples and pushkar navamsa should be used> > for> > muhuratha only and not for natal chart.> >> > I have also mailed Dr Vasan giving my chart example and I hope> > I will get the reply.> >> > Â> >> > I have also another case study which I did with Sureshji regarding> > prasana marga of my friends property. I don’t know about this subject but> > Sureshji’s> > analysis was almost accurate.> >> > I am not sure but I feel that Sureshji intusion could also> > be an important factor in that case study.> >> > Â> >> > And I agree with sreenadhji> >> > The concepts and statements you may find in many modern day> > scholar's books - such as BV Raman, Gayatri Devi, KN Rao, Sanjay Rath etc> > etc - might be much> > different from this traditional kerala perspective. It is better to learn> > directly referring to the classics, when confusion arises - then as Vedas> > puts it "Follow the path shown by the ancient sages, then we don't have to> > worry that we took the wrong path'. But ofcourse own logic and molding the> > principles to suit today's situation etc is all just part of intelligent> > application of ancient> > principles by any intelligent student. But we should be careful to go only> > as> > much as the non-contradicting logic will lead us to (based on practical> > experience and experimentation as well), and should take extra care NOT TO> > CONTRADICT the ancient guidances and basic foundation.> >> > Thanks and regards> >> > Girish> >> > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, S.C. Kursija sckursija@ wrote:> >> > S.C. Kursija sckursija@> > Re: [kerala_vedic_astrology] Misinterpretations or half> > interpretations of classical works> > kerala_vedic_astrology <kerala_vedic_astrology%40>> > Monday, November 30, 2009, 6:07 AM> >> > Â> >> > Dear Girish menon ji,> >> > I agree with you.Though Dr.B.V.Raman is not godfather of astrology, he has> > made us to read astrology. The educated members of the society started> > learning astrology after reading the books of Dr. Raman. Presently you can> > judge the market of English books of astrolofy. There is no thing to add> > further. "Haatha Kangana ko Arsi kya"> >> > Regards> >> > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Girish menon horamag > wrote:> >> > Girish menon horamag >> >> > Re: [kerala_vedic_ astrology] Misinterpretations or half> > interpretations of classical works> >> > kerala_vedic_ astrology> >> > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:06 PM> >> > Â> >> > Respected sureshji> >> > 300 combination is not the bible of astrology nor Shree B.V.Raman is its> > godfather.> >> > Well said.> >> > But cannot blame those astrologers. Like them i have to depend on these> > books. I feel to learn this science one must learn from a gurukul under> > traditional masters. That is the reason you and sreenadji have command over> > this subject.> >> > Thanks and regards> >> > Girish> >> > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, Suresh Babu <sureshbabuag@ > wrote:> >> > Suresh Babu <sureshbabuag@ >> >> > [kerala_vedic_ astrology] Misinterpretations or half> > interpretations of classical works> >> > kerala_vedic_ astrology> >> > Monday, November 30, 2009, 3:17 AM> >> > Â> >> > Dear All,> >> > Many a times we finds quotes from neo writers of Astrology or> > interpretators, which is worth spending some of the valuable time for> > evaluating them properly before absorbing blindly.> >> > The discussion below should prove the point. I have debiliberatly removed> > the names except mine, for it is not proper to publish others names without> > their concent or participation.> >> > Misinterpretations of Classical works without corroborating the fundamental> > principals> >> > This is excerpt from another discussion.> >> > 1) What is "sakata yoga"?> >> > 2) Does I am having the "sakata yoga".since the planetary positions in my> > chart--due to Moon being placed in the 12th house from Jupiter.> >> > 3) DOB:26-12-1980- ----TOB:23: 49> >> > POB:nARVA(MANADAL) ,MAHABOOBNAGAR( DISTRICT) ,AP.> >> > Answer: by me> >> > There are two varients of Shakata Yoga.> >> > 1) When all the planets (sun to ketu) are placed in Lagna and 7th, Shakata> > yoga> >> > is formed.> >> > This is the view held by most of the acharyas.> >> > 2) If Jupiter is placed in the the 6th or 8th from moon and NOT in lagna> > kendra,> >> > Shakata yoga is formed.> >> > This varient is provided by Jataka Parijata, while it also mentions the> > first> >> > view.> >> > In both case the the effect is extreme poverty. It is given that even a> > person> >> > born in royal family shall live by doing cooly work.> >> > In your chart, the first type does not exist.> >> > as per the second case: Jupiter is placed in the 2nd of moon (not 6th or> > 8th as> >> > is required) and also in the Lagna itself (So in the kendra of lagna).> >> > Hence Shakata Yoga does not exist in your chart as per both cases.> >> > Hope this clears your doubts.> >> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy> >> > answer provided by another astrologer> >> > Dear xxxxxxxx,> >> > Sakata Yoga as mentioned by Shri B.V.Raman in his book titled Three Hundred> > Combinations, mentioned that effect of yogas could be felt in antar dasa of> > the lords of 6th,8th and 12th.> >> > The relevence of this yoga and the kind of effect depends on other issues> > like strength of lagna,position of lagna lord and navamsa position of> > palnets.> >> > By another astrologer> >> > Dear XXXXXXX,> >> > As your moon is in 12th from jupiter there is sakata yoga.where as> > B.V.Raman in his book ThreeHundred combinations contended that Moon in> > 6,8,12 H from jupiter cuases sakata yoga leading to troubles.> >> > By another astrologer> >> > Counter Argument for the above:> >> > I beg to differ on this. Moon in the 12th of Jupiter means Jupiter is in> > the 2nd of Moon - A benefic in the 2nd of Moon & that too in the lagna which> > is Sunapha Yoga.> >> > So how can Sunapha Yoga caused by a benefic can also be Sakata Yoga. I am> > sure Sages / acharyas who originally wrote those yogas are not that stupid.> >> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy> >> > Dear XXXXX,> >> > My views on not much different from yours as far as practical application> > is concerned.> >> > However, the member asked a theoritical question & whether he as the said> > yoga in his chart (theoriticaly) .> >> > Phaladeepika holds the same view as Jataka Parijata.> >> > "jeeventyaaShTaaris aMsthe shashini tu shakaTaM> >> > kendrage naasti lagnaa"> >> > This is part of complete verse. I have given only the relevant portion.> >> > The meaning : if Jupiter (Jeeva) - anthya - 12th , ashTa - 8th , ari - 6th> > from shashini - moon is shakaTa, if not in the kendra of Lagna.> >> > The problem arises when the verse / sentence is not taken completely.> >> > Even so (half of the verse), I can understand Moon in the 6th or 8th. But> > in the 12th it comflicts with other yogas which are far more important than> > such positions. benefics on either side of moon / lagna / sun constitute> > subha madhya sthiti and is a natural / inborn protection from all> > illeffects, which is termed as sunapha (bha) / anapha (bha) / vesi / vasi /> > subha kartari yogas.> >> > off course their affliction / strength all matters in reality.> >> > Manasagari holds the view just like other classics : all planets occupying> > lagna & 7th.> >> > kindly understand that my comment was not directed at you.> >> > 300 combination is not the bible of astrology nor Shree B.V.Raman is its> > godfather.> >> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Dear Sreenadh ji,//"since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS" in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo the results of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near all of his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts (result given by Sunnapha yoga).//''no cancelation of results" but also nocancelation"neecha"aswell to my experience/knowledge.Love and regards,gopi. , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sasi Bhushan ji, > //As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga (lunar yoga) works more.//> "Your Analysis" - based on what?! Why should Sunabha Yoga "works more"? Deoes any text (in your knowledge) define any such PRIORITY - for Sunabha yoga over Sakata yoga? I don't think that this derivation is logical. > //but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems.//> Where it is told that benfic malefic nature of planets should be considered while deciding on the effect of Sakata Yoga?!! I never saw any such guidance - and since while dealing with Sakata yoga neither Phaladeepika nor Jataka parijata mentioned the same, I am sure that it is irrelevent to the context and yoga under consideration.> //It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.//> Based on what you are deriving this conclusion? The texts does not support your argument nor some of the charts I came accross! Have you at least cross checked your conclusion in some charts at least or not? What was your sample size?> Now coming to the texual gauidance -> As per Phala Deepika, the 6th-8th-12th position of MOON FROM JUPITER from Jupiter should give Sakata Yoga; and the results ascribed is DOWNs AND UPS in life a Vehicle WHEEL. Please note that Phaladeepika ascribes several good results such as popularity, regaining of everything lost etc to Sakata yoga as well (along with the bad results).> As per Jataka Parijata, the 6th-8th position of JUPITER FROM MOON should give Sakata yoga; and the results ascribed is extreem poverty (of loss of wealth) but this text too does ascribe some good results too for this yoga.> Since the 6th-8th and 8th-6th positions are applicable vice-versa, it is irrelevent whether the counting is from MOON OR JUPITER in those cases and so there is no difference of opininon between Phaladeepika and Jataka Parijata on that case.> Now coming to the 12th position of Moon from Jupiter is concerned, only Phala deepika mentions this. Ofcourse Jupiter in 2nd from Moon is Sunabha yoga. BUT "since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS" in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo the results of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near all of his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts (result given by Sunnapha yoga).> Check any chart with this combination (Moon in 12th from Jupiter) that you came accross (for the period of Moon or Jupiter dasa antara) and you can easly confirm this. > Hope this helps.> Note 1: Since I have this yoga in my own chart, you can consider that also as an example chart.> Note 2: A detailed discussion on this yoga happened between me and Suresh Kumar AG in kerala_vedic_astrology group, and if you want you can cross check those messages as well, to get a clearer picture. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , Sasi Bhushan bhushaniyer@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > > > I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding> > the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga> > (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon> > and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the> > dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter> > transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8> > combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not> > sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of> > confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go> > awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since> > jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind).> > > > This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for> > Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any> > ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with> > shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.> > > > This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in> > horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and> > health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in> > taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during> > Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the> > transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a> > result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between> > jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the> > horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women> > (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the> > menustrual cycles.> > > > The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful> > > > Thanks and Best Regards> > Sasibhushan> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Dear Sashi Bushan Ji, I am afraid you are confusing two different aspects: 1. Any two planets are 6/8 position from each other during their dasha periods will cause problems as per their Karakatwa and temporal benefic/malefic nature. This is normal analysis. 2. Yogas mentioned in classics are above and beyond are meant to be special cases. If not, why should they mention it? What is so special about Ju-Mo, why not Ju-Su or Ma-Mo at 6/8 positions? The fact that it is mentioned means it is a special case, not to be confused with temporal benefic/malefic nature. So it is best not to confuse the above two otherwise we will make errors in prediction. However, if you take the approach that Yes the results will be there for all Lagnas but will be coloured by the temporal nature of Ju and Mo for that Lagna, then ofcourse that is a Logical refinement, but the Yoga will still work. I think Sreenadh Ji explained the Shakata/Sunapha angle beautifully. Nothing cancels each other in Jyotish. Regards, -Manoj sreesog <sreesog Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 12:31:00 AM Re: Shakata_Yoga Dear Sasi Bhushan ji, //As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga (lunar yoga) works more.//"Your Analysis" - based on what?! Why should Sunabha Yoga "works more"? Deoes any text (in your knowledge) define any such PRIORITY - for Sunabha yoga over Sakata yoga? I don't think that this derivation is logical. //but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems.//Where it is told that benfic malefic nature of planets should be considered while deciding on the effect of Sakata Yoga?!! I never saw any such guidance - and since while dealing with Sakata yoga neither Phaladeepika nor Jataka parijata mentioned the same, I am sure that it is irrelevent to the context and yoga under consideration.//It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.//Based on what you are deriving this conclusion? The texts does not support your argument nor some of the charts I came accross! Have you at least cross checked your conclusion in some charts at least or not? What was your sample size?Now coming to the texual gauidance -As per Phala Deepika, the 6th-8th-12th position of MOON FROM JUPITER from Jupiter should give Sakata Yoga; and the results ascribed is DOWNs AND UPS in life a Vehicle WHEEL. Please note that Phaladeepika ascribes several good results such as popularity, regaining of everything lost etc to Sakata yoga as well (along with the bad results).As per Jataka Parijata, the 6th-8th position of JUPITER FROM MOON should give Sakata yoga; and the results ascribed is extreem poverty (of loss of wealth) but this text too does ascribe some good results too for this yoga.Since the 6th-8th and 8th-6th positions are applicable vice-versa, it is irrelevent whether the counting is from MOON OR JUPITER in those cases and so there is no difference of opininon between Phaladeepika and Jataka Parijata on that case.Now coming to the 12th position of Moon from Jupiter is concerned, only Phala deepika mentions this. Ofcourse Jupiter in 2nd from Moon is Sunabha yoga. BUT "since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS" in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo the results of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near all of his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts (result given by Sunnapha yoga).Check any chart with this combination (Moon in 12th from Jupiter) that you came accross (for the period of Moon or Jupiter dasa antara) and you can easly confirm this. Hope this helps.Note 1: Since I have this yoga in my own chart, you can consider that also as an example chart.Note 2: A detailed discussion on this yoga happened between me and Suresh Kumar AG in kerala_vedic_ astrology group, and if you want you can cross check those messages as well, to get a clearer picture. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Sasi Bhushan <bhushaniyer@ ...> wrote:>> Dear All,> > I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding> the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga> (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon> and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the> dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter> transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8> combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not> sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of> confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go> awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since> jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind).> > This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for> Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any> ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with> shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.> > This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in> horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and> health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in> taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during> Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the> transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a> result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between> jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the> horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women> (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the> menustrual cycles.> > The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful> > Thanks and Best Regards> Sasibhushan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be " Cancellation of Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no cancellation then what is the meaning of " Neecha Bhanga " or " Bhanga " . Please explain . Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what is the meaning of " arishta " . Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis. Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 " Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . " This is a true statement. The answer is given in - MahaPurusha Yoga Bhanga An Attempt by Subramanium Shastry ( http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:AJf13yCvt1MJ:www.saptarishisastrology.com/fi\ ledownload.php%3Fv%3D3%26a%3Dy%26f%3D48-MahaPurushaYogaBhanga-AnAttempt.pdf+canc\ ellation+of+mahapurusha+yoga & cd=1 & hl=en & ct=clnk & gl=us) , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be " Cancellation of > Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no > cancellation then what is the meaning of " Neecha Bhanga " or " Bhanga " . > > Please explain . > > Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas > in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam > purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . > > Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what > is the meaning of " arishta " . > > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples > Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis. > > Bhaskar. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Dear Satyabhama ji, Read it. A good attempt. But those are not the only reasons why this Yoga does not work. regards/Bhaskar. , " Satya " <satyabhama_gupta_1980 wrote: > > " Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . " > > This is a true statement. > > The answer is given in - > MahaPurusha Yoga Bhanga An Attempt by Subramanium Shastry > ( > http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:AJf13yCvt1MJ:www.saptarishisastrology.com/fi\ ledownload.php%3Fv%3D3%26a%3Dy%26f%3D48-MahaPurushaYogaBhanga-AnAttempt.pdf+canc\ ellation+of+mahapurusha+yoga & cd=1 & hl=en & ct=clnk & gl=us) > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be " Cancellation of > > Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no > > cancellation then what is the meaning of " Neecha Bhanga " or " Bhanga " . > > > > Please explain . > > > > Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas > > in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam > > purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . > > > > Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what > > is the meaning of " arishta " . > > > > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples > > Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 None of the Yogas are wrong or false or unreliable or unfunctioning. Because our Shastras are not wrong, our Rishi Munis are not wrong, our great ancestral astrologers are not wrong. They are very right in whatever they have given us. But the times when they did give this to us makes a difference in the object viewable at that point of time and today. Watching a movie sitting straight from the Dress Circle and from the first row in the stalls, all this makes a difference. Therefore before judging the cameraman for the quality of his pictorial depictions we must adjust our seats and then reckon. There was no ayanasmha those days. One must check Yogas from the Natal Chart, but ascertain whether the planets shift to other Houses after observing the Bhava Chalit Chart. If they do not shift their positions in this chart, then those Yogas will work, otherwise not. So let us not blame the Yogas or their inventors but ourselves when we do not find these Yogas not working. But cancellation part in astrology is certainly there. best wishes, Bhaskar. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Dear Satyabhama ji, > > Read it. A good attempt. But those are not the only reasons why this Yoga does not work. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > , " Satya " <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote: > > > > " Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . " > > > > This is a true statement. > > > > The answer is given in - > > MahaPurusha Yoga Bhanga An Attempt by Subramanium Shastry > > ( > > http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:AJf13yCvt1MJ:www.saptarishisastrology.com/fi\ ledownload.php%3Fv%3D3%26a%3Dy%26f%3D48-MahaPurushaYogaBhanga-AnAttempt.pdf+canc\ ellation+of+mahapurusha+yoga & cd=1 & hl=en & ct=clnk & gl=us) > > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be " Cancellation of > > > Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no > > > cancellation then what is the meaning of " Neecha Bhanga " or " Bhanga " . > > > > > > Please explain . > > > > > > Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas > > > in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam > > > purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . > > > > > > Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what > > > is the meaning of " arishta " . > > > > > > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples > > > Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis. > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji/ Manoj Ji, I do agree with both of you that i do not have any authentic text information from the classics regarding the cancellation of the shakata yoga with the lunar yoga (anapa/sunapha) or not working of the shakta yoga in the 2-12 position. I have come across these statements as a result of my queries posted to one of the old practising astrolgers in tamilnadu, (tirunelveli district) , i am searching for more textual information regarding the same. Once i am able to get through them i shall definetly share with all of you. Also i came across a text in a websitehttp://www.astrojyoti.com/phaladeepika3.htm while i was re-searching on shakata yoga (wheel) that there is a small exception to this stating that although moon and jupiter are in 6/8 but if the Moon is in Lagna kendra then this yoga will not effect. I would like to thank Sreenadh Ji's/ Manoj ji's views for commenting on my write up, this shall definetly help me to check with all the classical texts first and then post my views, since the views that i have gained are more through practical analysis of horoscopes along with discussion with some of the astrologers in southern india who are not much famous but have been practising astrology as per their family tradition. I shall also find and check for the charts having Moon in 12 from jupiter and how the Jupiter/Moon dasa/antara went for them and convey the same to the group once done. I have 5-6 of them but shall confirm with a greater sample size. Thanks to all of you for your guidance and comments. Best Regards Sasibhushan On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 1:27 PM, gopalakrishna <gopi_b927 wrote: Dear Sreenadh ji,// " since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS " in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo theresults of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near allof his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts(result given by Sunnapha yoga).//''no cancelation of results " but also nocancelation " neecha " aswell to my experience/knowledge. Love and regards,gopi. , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sasi Bhushan ji, > //As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga (lunar yoga) works more.//> " Your Analysis " - based on what?! Why should Sunabha Yoga " works more " ? Deoes any text (in your knowledge) define any such PRIORITY - for Sunabha yoga over Sakata yoga? I don't think that this derivation is logical. > //but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems.//> Where it is told that benfic malefic nature of planets should be considered while deciding on the effect of Sakata Yoga?!! I never saw any such guidance - and since while dealing with Sakata yoga neither Phaladeepika nor Jataka parijata mentioned the same, I am sure that it is irrelevent to the context and yoga under consideration. > //It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.//> Based on what you are deriving this conclusion? The texts does not support your argument nor some of the charts I came accross! Have you at least cross checked your conclusion in some charts at least or not? What was your sample size? > Now coming to the texual gauidance -> As per Phala Deepika, the 6th-8th-12th position of MOON FROM JUPITER from Jupiter should give Sakata Yoga; and the results ascribed is DOWNs AND UPS in life a Vehicle WHEEL. Please note that Phaladeepika ascribes several good results such as popularity, regaining of everything lost etc to Sakata yoga as well (along with the bad results). > As per Jataka Parijata, the 6th-8th position of JUPITER FROM MOON should give Sakata yoga; and the results ascribed is extreem poverty (of loss of wealth) but this text too does ascribe some good results too for this yoga. > Since the 6th-8th and 8th-6th positions are applicable vice-versa, it is irrelevent whether the counting is from MOON OR JUPITER in those cases and so there is no difference of opininon between Phaladeepika and Jataka Parijata on that case. > Now coming to the 12th position of Moon from Jupiter is concerned, only Phala deepika mentions this. Ofcourse Jupiter in 2nd from Moon is Sunabha yoga. BUT " since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS " in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo the results of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near all of his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts (result given by Sunnapha yoga). > Check any chart with this combination (Moon in 12th from Jupiter) that you came accross (for the period of Moon or Jupiter dasa antara) and you can easly confirm this. > Hope this helps.> Note 1: Since I have this yoga in my own chart, you can consider that also as an example chart. > Note 2: A detailed discussion on this yoga happened between me and Suresh Kumar AG in kerala_vedic_astrology group, and if you want you can cross check those messages as well, to get a clearer picture. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh> > , Sasi Bhushan bhushaniyer@ wrote:> >> > Dear All, > > > > I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding> > the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga > > (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon> > and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the> > dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter > > transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8> > combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not> > sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of > > confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go> > awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since> > jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind). > > > > This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for> > Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any> > ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with > > shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.> > > > This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in> > horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and > > health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in> > taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during> > Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the > > transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a> > result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between> > jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the > > horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women> > (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the> > menustrual cycles.> > > > The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful > > > > Thanks and Best Regards> > Sasibhushan> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Dear Baskar Ji:There was no ayanamsha those days.This means that Parasura and others used tropical charts for their predictions. This has always bothered me. Now we use sideral charts and apply their findings.If only we knew when Parasura lived, we can probably adjust our charts to his time frame.Now, you seem to suggest that the bhava chalit chart would rectify this situation.Can you please explain.Regards,anantha krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Dear Anantha ji, The ayanamsha takes care of the difference in tropical and Sidereal. Whereas the Bhava Chalit takes care of the accuracy of predictions. regards/Bhaskar. , Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_98 wrote: > > Dear Baskar Ji: > There was no ayanamsha those days. > > This means that Parasura and others used tropical charts for their predictions. This has always bothered me. Now we use sideral charts and apply their findings.If only we knew when Parasura lived, we can probably adjust our charts to his time frame. > Now, you seem to suggest that the bhava chalit chart would rectify this situation.Can you please explain. > > Regards, > anantha krishnan > > Â --- On Sat, 12/26/09, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish > Re: Shakata_Yoga > > Saturday, December 26, 2009, 11:35 PM > Â > > > None of the Yogas are wrong or false or unreliable or unfunctioning. Because our Shastras are not wrong, our Rishi Munis are not wrong, our great ancestral astrologers are not wrong. They are very right in whatever they have given us. But the times when they did give this to us makes a difference in the object viewable at that point of time and today. Watching a movie sitting straight from the Dress Circle and from the first row in the stalls, all this makes a difference. > > Therefore before judging the cameraman for the quality of his pictorial depictions we must adjust our seats and then reckon. There was no ayanasmha those days. One must check Yogas from the Natal Chart, but ascertain whether the planets shift to other Houses after observing the Bhava Chalit Chart. If they do not shift their positions in this chart, then those Yogas will work, otherwise not. > > > > So let us not blame the Yogas or their inventors but ourselves when we do not find these Yogas not working. > > > > But cancellation part in astrology is certainly there. > > > > best wishes, > > Bhaskar. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Satyabhama ji, > > > > > > Read it. A good attempt. But those are not the only reasons why this Yoga does not work. > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Satya " <satyabhama_ gupta_1980@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > " Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . " > > > > > > > > This is a true statement. > > > > > > > > The answer is given in - > > > > MahaPurusha Yoga Bhanga An Attempt by Subramanium Shastry > > > > ( > > > > http://74.125. 95.132/search? q=cache:AJf13yCv t1MJ:www. saptarishisastro logy.com/ filedownload. php%3Fv%3D3% 26a%3Dy%26f% 3D48-MahaPurusha YogaBhanga- AnAttempt. pdf+cancellation +of+mahapurusha+ yoga & cd=1 & hl=en & ct= clnk & gl=us) > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be " Cancellation of > > > > > Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no > > > > > cancellation then what is the meaning of " Neecha Bhanga " or " Bhanga " . > > > > > > > > > > Please explain . > > > > > > > > > > Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas > > > > > in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam > > > > > purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . > > > > > > > > > > Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what > > > > > is the meaning of " arishta " . > > > > > > > > > > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples > > > > > Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis. > > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Dear Sasibhushan ji,Hope you have found enough evidence in what sreenadh ji mentioned.I have seen enough charts with both good and bad effects of sakata yoga.Love and regards,gopi. , "sreesog" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sasi Bhushan ji, > //As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga (lunar yoga) works more.//> "Your Analysis" - based on what?! Why should Sunabha Yoga "works more"? Deoes any text (in your knowledge) define any such PRIORITY - for Sunabha yoga over Sakata yoga? I don't think that this derivation is logical. > //but i think the effect shall be more felt for Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any ways and this combination shall cause more problems.//> Where it is told that benfic malefic nature of planets should be considered while deciding on the effect of Sakata Yoga?!! I never saw any such guidance - and since while dealing with Sakata yoga neither Phaladeepika nor Jataka parijata mentioned the same, I am sure that it is irrelevent to the context and yoga under consideration.> //It is more to do with shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.//> Based on what you are deriving this conclusion? The texts does not support your argument nor some of the charts I came accross! Have you at least cross checked your conclusion in some charts at least or not? What was your sample size?> Now coming to the texual gauidance -> As per Phala Deepika, the 6th-8th-12th position of MOON FROM JUPITER from Jupiter should give Sakata Yoga; and the results ascribed is DOWNs AND UPS in life a Vehicle WHEEL. Please note that Phaladeepika ascribes several good results such as popularity, regaining of everything lost etc to Sakata yoga as well (along with the bad results).> As per Jataka Parijata, the 6th-8th position of JUPITER FROM MOON should give Sakata yoga; and the results ascribed is extreem poverty (of loss of wealth) but this text too does ascribe some good results too for this yoga.> Since the 6th-8th and 8th-6th positions are applicable vice-versa, it is irrelevent whether the counting is from MOON OR JUPITER in those cases and so there is no difference of opininon between Phaladeepika and Jataka Parijata on that case.> Now coming to the 12th position of Moon from Jupiter is concerned, only Phala deepika mentions this. Ofcourse Jupiter in 2nd from Moon is Sunabha yoga. BUT "since there is NO CANCELLATION OF RESULTS" in astrology, both the results - i.e. of Sunapha yoga and Sakata yoga - applies; and the native will undergo the results of BOTH during the dasa antara of Moon or Jupiter. He will loss near all of his heriditory property (result given by Sakata yoga) BUT will become populr (result given by Sakata yoga) and will regain wealth due to his own efforts (result given by Sunnapha yoga).> Check any chart with this combination (Moon in 12th from Jupiter) that you came accross (for the period of Moon or Jupiter dasa antara) and you can easly confirm this. > Hope this helps.> Note 1: Since I have this yoga in my own chart, you can consider that also as an example chart.> Note 2: A detailed discussion on this yoga happened between me and Suresh Kumar AG in kerala_vedic_astrology group, and if you want you can cross check those messages as well, to get a clearer picture. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , Sasi Bhushan bhushaniyer@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > > > I have been going through this discussion regarding the discussion regarding> > the Shakata Yoga. As far as my analysis of shakata yoga is concerned it has> > to do more with the 6-8 position and not 12 from moon since the sunabha yoga> > (lunar yoga) works more. But yes defintely the 6-8 combination between Moon> > and Jupiter shall always shows its effect and it can be seen during the> > dasa, antar dasa and also during the bad transit of jupiter (viz. jupiter> > transiting the natal moon or Moon transiting the natal jupiter ) and the 6-8> > combination between moon and jupiter is present in the natal chart. I am not> > sure that it may lead to extreme poverty by definetly there will be lots of> > confusion generated in the mind and the decision making ability shall go> > awfully wrong and as a result there will be lots of money loss (since> > jupiter karaka for wealth and moon karaka for mind).> > > > This has been my experience, but i think the effect shall be more felt for> > Vrushabha and tula lagna personal as Jupiter being a functional malefic any> > ways and this combination shall cause more problems. It is more to do with> > shasta-ashtakam and very less with the 12 position.> > > > This is my personal experience and views on shakata yoga. I have found in> > horoscopes where in there has been problems of severe mental instability and> > health concerns in women with this combination (viz mesha lagna, Moon in> > taurus (exalted) and jupiter in dhanus (Moola trikona) and still during> > Jupiter dasa and in its own antar dasa. The girl got married during the> > transit jupiter transiting the natal jupiter with lots of confusion and as a> > result did not get adjusted into the new family soon. Due to the 6-8 between> > jupiter and Moon although both of them are strongly posited in the> > horoscope. The shakata yoga had taken a toll on the health of the women> > (Moon karak for health and menustrual cycle) causing sudden changes in the> > menustrual cycles.> > > > The elders views on this regard shall be highly helpful> > > > Thanks and Best Regards> > Sasibhushan> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Dear Bhaskar ji, 'Bhanga' only means 'Brocken'; it does not mean 'cancellation' or 'negation'. As per Sanskrit dictionaries it can also mean 'defeat' or 'obstruction'. When two yogas indicate nearly contradicting results, it is like 2 rivers meeting, they exert force on each other generating a new result. It is like two people mating to give birth to a child, having the qualities of both of them. They exist but then the generated result becomes the focus of attention. Something (Some yoga) that is present in the horoscope is PRESENT there for ever exerting its influence throughout the life of the native - un-destrucable; permanent. But the effect it exerts may vary, become more or less, like the waves of the sea shore, like the waves of the river. The opposing or contradicting forces (other yogas) and environments may mold the results accordingly, changing it a bit here and there, making it mild or strong; but ultimately the truth is that the very same result is existing there - weak or strong - undestructed. This is what I meant when I said 'there is no cancellation of results in astrology'; the existence of the word 'bhanga' and its is use and application is NOT against the above understanding. The use of the word 'Bhanga' (meaning - 'broken but it still exists in a weaker/mild/changed way') only supports the above argument and does not go against it. //> Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas> in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like "aam> purusha" and not like "Mahapurusha".> Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples> Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis.// Unlike the popular understanding 'Rajayogas are RARE in number' and they DO MATERIALIZE if the proper dasa comes other wise not'. As per Laghu Parasari, people with Rajayogas in their horoscope with the PROPER dasa not coming is like 'Donkeys carrying saffron without ever being able to use it'. The presents of such 'aam purushas' (the donkeys -kashmeera gardabhas - having the yoga but not the proper dasa to enjoy it materializing) DO NOT negate the value of such Rajayogas. I know that you already know it - but only making me spell it out. :)//> Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what > is the meaning of "arishta".// Again here also it is the same - unlike popular understanding 'Arishta yogas' are RARE in number. 'Asisha' means 'difficulties'. The period (dasa) during which the Arishta yogas materialize would definitely be a 'difficult period'. This word 'Arishta' when used in the context of 'combinations indicating untimely death' (as used while speaking about Sadyo mrityu, Balarishta, Yogarishta) can mean 'period or combination that could cause death'. But this only a contextual meaning the general meaning of the word 'arishta' is simply 'difficulties' Love and rega4rds,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be "Cancellation of> Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no> cancellation then what is the meaning of "Neecha Bhanga" or "Bhanga".> > Please explain .> > Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas> in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like "aam> purusha" and not like "Mahapurusha".> > Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, what> is the meaning of "arishta".> > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples> Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis.> > Bhaskar.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Dear Anantha Krishnan ji, If BRAHMA SIDDHANTA states that "Ayanamsa pradatavya" (Ayanamsa should be added) then based on what are you saying that 'There was no ayanamsha those days'?!!! The above bit from the ancient Brahma Siddhanta is quoted by both Hora Ratnam and Muhurta Chnitamani - two well authentic texts available to us today. Do you want to say that you have an older siddhantic textual reference than Brahma Siddhanta? As I know it, Surya Siddhanta also support the use of Ayanamsa. Thus BOTH the oldest Siddantic reference texts -i.e. Surya Siddhanta and Brahma Siddnanta - known to us support the use of Ayanamsa and refer to the same! So what elese reference you are looking for and required?!! Based on what are you saying that - 'There was no ayanamsha those days'? What is your reference? OR is there any at all? Note: Please note that we are not speaking about Vedas or puranas or the tropical astrology mentioned in some of them. But instead we are speaking about the Nirayana astrology which is an Agama sastra (Tantric branch of knowledge) - it is generally non-vedic in nature. Ancient Indian astrology had two branches - 1) The Nirayana branch of Agama stream of astrology (Non-vedic) 2) The Semi-Tropical branch of Nigama stream of astrology (Vedic) Please note that here we are speaking about the first and not the second.Love and regards,Sreenadh , Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_98 wrote:>> Dear Baskar Ji:> There was no ayanamsha those days.> > This means that Parasura and others used tropical charts for their predictions. This has always bothered me. Now we use sideral charts and apply their findings.If only we knew when Parasura lived, we can probably adjust our charts to his time frame.> Now, you seem to suggest that the bhava chalit chart would rectify this situation.Can you please explain.> > Regards,> anantha krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Dear Sreenadh ji, I dont even remember the context in which this was spoken and to whom, and why ? Anyways by " Cancellation of Yogas " it is understood that the Yoga is inherent in the Kundli, but cannot be tapped by the native due to whatever reasons, astrological or longevity factor connected to dasha as you suggested. This can be compared to a man who has married a beautiful lady, but is helpless to do anything due to whatever reasons..so the wife is of no use for him, except like a status symbol or a show case item, to feel elated about.. About " Bhanga " whever we speak or use this word, it is always in connection to something else about which we are talking when mouth the word " Bhanga " . The meaning of this word cannot exists in isolation, and thus in astrological parlances too, I agree that when we say " Bhanga " then we are talking about something which is/was there, but due to other reasons, the " Bhanga " is caused to the presence of these other reasons. regards/Bhaskar. regards, Bhaskar. , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > 'Bhanga' only means 'Brocken'; it does not mean 'cancellation' or > 'negation'. As per Sanskrit dictionaries it can also mean 'defeat' or > 'obstruction'. When two yogas indicate nearly contradicting results, it > is like 2 rivers meeting, they exert force on each other generating a > new result. It is like two people mating to give birth to a child, > having the qualities of both of them. They exist but then the generated > result becomes the focus of attention. Something (Some yoga) that is > present in the horoscope is PRESENT there for ever exerting its > influence throughout the life of the native - un-destrucable; permanent. > But the effect it exerts may vary, become more or less, like the waves > of the sea shore, like the waves of the river. The opposing or > contradicting forces (other yogas) and environments may mold the results > accordingly, changing it a bit here and there, making it mild or strong; > but ultimately the truth is that the very same result is existing there > - weak or strong - undestructed. > This is what I meant when I said 'there is no cancellation of results > in astrology'; the existence of the word 'bhanga' and its is use and > application is NOT against the above understanding. The use of the word > 'Bhanga' (meaning - 'broken but it still exists in a weaker/mild/changed > way') only supports the above argument and does not go against it. > //> Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha > Yogas > > in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam > > purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . > > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples > > Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis.// > Unlike the popular understanding 'Rajayogas are RARE in number' and > they DO MATERIALIZE if the proper dasa comes other wise not'. As per > Laghu Parasari, people with Rajayogas in their horoscope with the PROPER > dasa not coming is like 'Donkeys carrying saffron without ever being > able to use it'. The presents of such 'aam purushas' (the donkeys > -kashmeera gardabhas - having the yoga but not the proper dasa to enjoy > it materializing) DO NOT negate the value of such Rajayogas. I know that > you already know it - but only making me spell it out. > //> Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, > what > > is the meaning of " arishta " .// > Again here also it is the same - unlike popular understanding 'Arishta > yogas' are RARE in number. 'Asisha' means 'difficulties'. The period > (dasa) during which the Arishta yogas materialize would definitely be a > 'difficult period'. This word 'Arishta' when used in the context of > 'combinations indicating untimely death' (as used while speaking about > Sadyo mrityu, Balarishta, Yogarishta) can mean 'period or combination > that could cause death'. But this only a contextual meaning the general > meaning of the word 'arishta' is simply 'difficulties' > Love and rega4rds, > Sreenadh > > , " Bhaskar " > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > I am sorry but I cannot understand why there cannot be " Cancellation > of > > Results " in Astrology. Where is this written. If there is no > > cancellation then what is the meaning of " Neecha Bhanga " or " Bhanga " . > > > > Please explain . > > > > Please also explain why when there are so many Panch Mahapurusha Yogas > > in Horoscopes of so many people, why do they still live like " aam > > purusha " and not like " Mahapurusha " . > > > > Please explain when there is Balrsihta Yogas in so many Horoscopes, > what > > is the meaning of " arishta " . > > > > Please also explain when there are so many Rajyogas in peoples > > Horoscopes, why these people live like Chapraasis. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Dear Sreenadhji: I was just quoting Mr. Bhaskar's comment and thinking aloud based on that statement. I did not make that clear in my email- that it was a quote. I do not know anything more than what most of the people connected with astrology and astronomy know, i.e. that Hipparchus was the one who established the theory of percussion of the equinoxes. I think that he lived around 200 B.C, little after Alexander. There was lot of commercial traffic between Greece, Italy and South India during those times and this information would have been transmitted to the educated elite. So all the rishi's who lived after 200 B.C. would have incorporated the concept of ayanamsha in their predictive slokas. No question about it. My concern was- what about the slokas written before 200 B.C. I do know that you have previously mentioned one Parasura (probably a common name in the 2000 B.C.) has noticed that winter solstice has shifted from one nakshatra to another in a matter of 1000 years. So he probably had inkling about percussion. Nothing has been recorded about the percussion. If he had done it, we would be standing in the rooftops and demonstrating it. Let us consider an example; Parasura in one of his sloka concerning the placement of the fifth lord in second house, he says: Sudesha dhanake jatho bahuputro dhananvitha Kutumboshko mani sthripriya suyasho bhuvi If the fifth lord is laced in the second house, the native will have many sons and wealth, be honorable, be attached to his/her spouse, and be famous in the world. This is a very tall achievement to be had. As an example to illustrate this sloka, Santhanam picks Mrs. Gandhi’s chart. Based on Chitrapaksha ayanamsha- her ascendant is cancer and the fifth Lord Mars is in the second house. Out of five achievements listed in the sloka, she attained at least four. Now if you change the ayanamsha to Ramans, the ASc moves to Leo and the fifth Lord Jupiter is in the tenth house providing the same achivements to the native.. In some other cases may the opposite may end up to be true. Regardless, it will certainly clarify things if we knew the basis or the assumptions he used when he wrote all slokas. If this sloka was written before 200 B.C, was ayanamsha considered? If not, how are we justified in applying this to a chart (Mrs. Gandhi’s chart) based on one Ayanamsha or the other?Regards,anantha krishnan --- On Sun, 1/3/10, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Re: Shakata_Yoga Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:05 AM Dear Anantha Krishnan ji, If BRAHMA SIDDHANTA states that "Ayanamsa pradatavya" (Ayanamsa should be added) then based on what are you saying that 'There was no ayanamsha those days'?!!! The above bit from the ancient Brahma Siddhanta is quoted by both Hora Ratnam and Muhurta Chnitamani - two well authentic texts available to us today. Do you want to say that you have an older siddhantic textual reference than Brahma Siddhanta? As I know it, Surya Siddhanta also support the use of Ayanamsa. Thus BOTH the oldest Siddantic reference texts -i.e. Surya Siddhanta and Brahma Siddnanta - known to us support the use of Ayanamsa and refer to the same! So what elese reference you are looking for and required?!! Based on what are you saying that - 'There was no ayanamsha those days'? What is your reference? OR is there any at all? Note: Please note that we are not speaking about Vedas or puranas or the tropical astrology mentioned in some of them. But instead we are speaking about the Nirayana astrology which is an Agama sastra (Tantric branch of knowledge) - it is generally non-vedic in nature. Ancient Indian astrology had two branches - 1) The Nirayana branch of Agama stream of astrology (Non-vedic) 2) The Semi-Tropical branch of Nigama stream of astrology (Vedic) Please note that here we are speaking about the first and not the second.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_ 98 wrote:>> Dear Baskar Ji:> There was no ayanamsha those days.> > This means that Parasura and others used tropical charts for their predictions. This has always bothered me. Now we use sideral charts and apply their findings.If only we knew when Parasura lived, we can probably adjust our charts to his time frame.> Now, you seem to suggest that the bhava chalit chart would rectify this situation.Can you please explain.> > Regards,> anantha krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Dear Ananta Krishnan ji,//> I do not know anything more than what most of the people connected with> astrology and astronomy know, i.e. that Hipparchus was the one who established> the theory of percussion of the equinoxes. I think that he lived around 200> B.C, little after Alexander. There was lot of commercial traffic between Greece, Italy> and South India during those times and this information would have been transmitted to the educated elite.// The above statements are a mix of knowledge plus confusion. Please note that - * You are wrong in stating that 'Hipparchus was the one who established the theory of precession of equinoxes'. The theory of equinoxes was well known to many cultures far far before the period of Hipparchus itself, whether that culture be Sumerian, Egyptian, Cerntral Russian, Mayan or Ancient Indian. This is well proved by many modern day scholars who did extensive studies on the subject. Even a net search on 'Precession of Equinoxes' will prove this. I am giving you a sample name of an author to start the study - "Graham Hancock". Also it is NOT write to say that Hipparchus 'invented' the theory of precession of equinoxes. Please note that the 'Dhruvanka' (Polar co-ordinates) and Nirayana zodiac used by Hipparchus is well in tune with the ancient indian approach of texts like Surya Siddanta and NO OTHER Greek astrologer (including Ptolomy) used the same! So was it that Hipparchus got the same from the Nigama followers (whether it be india, sumeria, harappa or central russian) or is it that ancient indians got it from Hipparchus? If even the greeks discarded the Hipparchus method, if there is no continuity of tradition regarding the same available in Greek, the chances are that Hipparchus was an exception and he got/adopted this method from somewhere else (whether it be ancient india, sumeria, harappa or central russia) and also that it was NOT an original invention made by him. Thus from our perspective Hipparchus is NOT the original inventor of Nirayana system or use of Ayanamsa or Precession. The concept must have been known to many from hundreds (if no thousands) of years before Hipparchus itself to many cultures, including ancient indians. (There is all chance that Hipparchus got the theory regarding use of polar co-ordinates, nirayana zodiac etc even from ancient india, considering the fact that he lived AFTER the period of Alexander! Anyway, it could be some other common source as well like Harappa, Sumeria or Central Russia)//So all the rishi's who lived after 200 B.C. would have incorporated the concept> of ayanamsha in their predictive slokas. No question about it. My concern was- what about the slokas written before 200 B.C.// Yes, definitely. Our concern is also the same. It is clear to everyone that from BC 200 or so. It is also clear that Brahma siddhanta and Surya siddhanta contains age old tradition of astronomy followed by ancient indians. It is also clear that these (Brahma siddhanta and Surya Siddhanta) are UNDATABLE texts - texts and tradition whose history may go back to thousands of years even before Hipparchus. Yes, it is true that these texts might have got modified or re-written many times in the course of time (as evident from a linguistic analysis). But defenitly (just like in the case of BPHS, or Brihat Jataka) the concepts and teachings they deal with are very very ancient, imparted to the authors of those texts through tradition; and they never formulated anything without base, anything that is not suggested or pointed to by the authentic tradition. (This is well evident from the study of every sloka, whether it be from Brihat Jataka, BPHS or some other astro classic). So the point is, from the ancient indian perspective, the origin of subject matter and teachings dealt within Suryas Siddhanta and Brahma siddhanta goes back to an age old period far far before the period of Hipparchus and we are in dark about the period of origin of these teachings (just like in the case of Skanda hora alias Jyotishmati, the first book of Nirayana astrology) - and the efforts to date these texts or teachings as 'after hipparchus' is just a western fallacy to which we should not make ourselves succumb to.//Chitra paksha Ayanamsa...Ayanamsa of Raman ... etc etc// Why all these trouble? Why don't you just depend on the first texts as per indian astrology that deals with Ayanamsa - i.e. Surya Siddhanta and Brahma Siddhanta itself?! That would be more authentic and a traditional approach. So the question would be what is the Ayanamsa proposed by Surya Siddhanta. And the answer we can expect from someone who thoroughly studied this subject based on Surya Siddnata. And this is the very reason, I am depending and using the Surya Siddhantic Ayanamsa clarified by Chandra Hari, a man who studied this subject with sincerity and clearly and logically clarified the issue, providing us with the solultion and information. Whether it be people who used Brahma Siddnata, Surya Siddanta or Parasara siddhanta - all of them might have used different methods to arrive at the SAME AYANAMSA VALUE in the ancient period. Since Surya Siddhanta is available to us now (in two versions), it is the best source from which we can scrutinize and deduce this original actual value that was in use. And that is what Chandrahari did!//> Regardless, it will certainly clarify things if we knew the> basis or the assumptions he used when he (Parasara) wrote all slokas. If this sloka was written before> 200 B.C, was ayanamsha considered? If not, how are we justified in applying this to a chart (Mrs.> Gandhi’s chart) based on one Ayanamsha or the other?// I hope I have already clarified these and provided the answers in the above para itself.Love and regards,Sreenadh , Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_98 wrote:>> > > > Dear Sreenadhji:> > I was just quoting Mr. Bhaskar's comment and thinking aloud based on that> statement.> > I did not make that clear in my email- that it was a quote.> > I do not know anything more than what most of the people connected with> astrology and astronomy know, i.e. that Hipparchus was the one who established> the theory of percussion of the equinoxes. I think that he lived around 200> B.C, little after Alexander. There was lot of commercial traffic between Greece, Italy> and South India during those times and this> information would have been transmitted to the educated elite. So all the rishi's who lived after 200 B.C. would have incorporated the concept> of ayanamsha in their predictive slokas. No question about it.> > My concern was- what about the slokas written before 200 B.C. I do know that> you have previously mentioned one Parasura (probably a common name in the 2000> B.C.) has noticed that winter solstice has shifted from one nakshatra to> another in a matter of 1000 years. So he probably had inkling about percussion.> Nothing has been recorded about the percussion. If he had done it, we would be> standing in the rooftops and demonstrating it.> > Let us consider an example;> > Parasura in one of his sloka concerning the placement of the> fifth lord in second house, he says:> > Sudesha dhanake jatho> bahuputro dhananvitha> > Kutumboshko mani> sthripriya suyasho bhuvi> > If the fifth lord is laced in the second house, the native> will have many sons and wealth, be honorable, be attached to his/her spouse,> and be famous in the world. This is a very tall achievement to be had.> > As an example to illustrate this sloka, Santhanam picks Mrs.> Gandhi’s chart. Based on Chitrapaksha ayanamsha- her ascendant is cancer and> the fifth Lord Mars is in the second house. Out of five achievements listed in> the sloka, she attained at least four.> > Now if you change the ayanamsha to Ramans, the ASc moves to> Leo and the fifth Lord Jupiter is in the tenth house providing the same> achivements to the native.. In some other cases may the opposite may end up to> be true.> > Regardless, it will certainly clarify things if we knew the> basis or the assumptions he used when he wrote all slokas. If this sloka was written before> 200 B.C, was ayanamsha considered? If not,> how are we justified in applying this to a chart (Mrs.> Gandhi’s chart) based on one Ayanamsha or the other?Regards,anantha krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Dear Sreenadh Ji:Thanks for your detailed response.Regards,anantha krishnan--- On Mon, 1/4/10, sreesog <sreesog wrote:sreesog <sreesog Re: Shakata_Yoga Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 4:35 AM Dear Ananta Krishnan ji,//> I do not know anything more than what most of the people connected with> astrology and astronomy know, i.e. that Hipparchus was the one who established> the theory of percussion of the equinoxes. I think that he lived around 200> B.C, little after Alexander. There was lot of commercial traffic between Greece, Italy> and South India during those times and this information would have been transmitted to the educated elite.// The above statements are a mix of knowledge plus confusion. Please note that - * You are wrong in stating that 'Hipparchus was the one who established the theory of precession of equinoxes'. The theory of equinoxes was well known to many cultures far far before the period of Hipparchus itself, whether that culture be Sumerian, Egyptian, Cerntral Russian, Mayan or Ancient Indian. This is well proved by many modern day scholars who did extensive studies on the subject. Even a net search on 'Precession of Equinoxes' will prove this. I am giving you a sample name of an author to start the study - "Graham Hancock". Also it is NOT write to say that Hipparchus 'invented' the theory of precession of equinoxes. Please note that the 'Dhruvanka' (Polar co-ordinates) and Nirayana zodiac used by Hipparchus is well in tune with the ancient indian approach of texts like Surya Siddanta and NO OTHER Greek astrologer (including Ptolomy) used the same! So was it that Hipparchus got the same from the Nigama followers (whether it be india, sumeria, harappa or central russian) or is it that ancient indians got it from Hipparchus? If even the greeks discarded the Hipparchus method, if there is no continuity of tradition regarding the same available in Greek, the chances are that Hipparchus was an exception and he got/adopted this method from somewhere else (whether it be ancient india, sumeria, harappa or central russia) and also that it was NOT an original invention made by him. Thus from our perspective Hipparchus is NOT the original inventor of Nirayana system or use of Ayanamsa or Precession. The concept must have been known to many from hundreds (if no thousands) of years before Hipparchus itself to many cultures, including ancient indians. (There is all chance that Hipparchus got the theory regarding use of polar co-ordinates, nirayana zodiac etc even from ancient india, considering the fact that he lived AFTER the period of Alexander! Anyway, it could be some other common source as well like Harappa, Sumeria or Central Russia)//So all the rishi's who lived after 200 B.C. would have incorporated the concept> of ayanamsha in their predictive slokas. No question about it. My concern was- what about the slokas written before 200 B.C.// Yes, definitely. Our concern is also the same. It is clear to everyone that from BC 200 or so. It is also clear that Brahma siddhanta and Surya siddhanta contains age old tradition of astronomy followed by ancient indians. It is also clear that these (Brahma siddhanta and Surya Siddhanta) are UNDATABLE texts - texts and tradition whose history may go back to thousands of years even before Hipparchus. Yes, it is true that these texts might have got modified or re-written many times in the course of time (as evident from a linguistic analysis). But defenitly (just like in the case of BPHS, or Brihat Jataka) the concepts and teachings they deal with are very very ancient, imparted to the authors of those texts through tradition; and they never formulated anything without base, anything that is not suggested or pointed to by the authentic tradition. (This is well evident from the study of every sloka, whether it be from Brihat Jataka, BPHS or some other astro classic). So the point is, from the ancient indian perspective, the origin of subject matter and teachings dealt within Suryas Siddhanta and Brahma siddhanta goes back to an age old period far far before the period of Hipparchus and we are in dark about the period of origin of these teachings (just like in the case of Skanda hora alias Jyotishmati, the first book of Nirayana astrology) - and the efforts to date these texts or teachings as 'after hipparchus' is just a western fallacy to which we should not make ourselves succumb to.//Chitra paksha Ayanamsa...Ayanamsa of Raman ... etc etc// Why all these trouble? Why don't you just depend on the first texts as per indian astrology that deals with Ayanamsa - i.e. Surya Siddhanta and Brahma Siddhanta itself?! That would be more authentic and a traditional approach. So the question would be what is the Ayanamsa proposed by Surya Siddhanta. And the answer we can expect from someone who thoroughly studied this subject based on Surya Siddnata. And this is the very reason, I am depending and using the Surya Siddhantic Ayanamsa clarified by Chandra Hari, a man who studied this subject with sincerity and clearly and logically clarified the issue, providing us with the solultion and information. Whether it be people who used Brahma Siddnata, Surya Siddanta or Parasara siddhanta - all of them might have used different methods to arrive at the SAME AYANAMSA VALUE in the ancient period. Since Surya Siddhanta is available to us now (in two versions), it is the best source from which we can scrutinize and deduce this original actual value that was in use. And that is what Chandrahari did!//> Regardless, it will certainly clarify things if we knew the> basis or the assumptions he used when he (Parasara) wrote all slokas. If this sloka was written before> 200 B.C, was ayanamsha considered? If not, how are we justified in applying this to a chart (Mrs.> Gandhi’s chart) based on one Ayanamsha or the other?// I hope I have already clarified these and provided the answers in the above para itself.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_ 98 wrote:>> > > > Dear Sreenadhji:> > I was just quoting Mr. Bhaskar's comment and thinking aloud based on that> statement.> > I did not make that clear in my email- that it was a quote.> > I do not know anything more than what most of the people connected with> astrology and astronomy know, i.e. that Hipparchus was the one who established> the theory of percussion of the equinoxes. I think that he lived around 200> B.C, little after Alexander. There was lot of commercial traffic between Greece, Italy> and South India during those times and this> information would have been transmitted to the educated elite. So all the rishi's who lived after 200 B.C. would have incorporated the concept> of ayanamsha in their predictive slokas. No question about it.> > My concern was- what about the slokas written before 200 B.C. I do know that> you have previously mentioned one Parasura (probably a common name in the 2000> B.C.) has noticed that winter solstice has shifted from one nakshatra to> another in a matter of 1000 years. So he probably had inkling about percussion.> Nothing has been recorded about the percussion. If he had done it, we would be> standing in the rooftops and demonstrating it.> > Let us consider an example;> > Parasura in one of his sloka concerning the placement of the> fifth lord in second house, he says:> > Sudesha dhanake jatho> bahuputro dhananvitha> > Kutumboshko mani> sthripriya suyasho bhuvi> > If the fifth lord is laced in the second house, the native> will have many sons and wealth, be honorable, be attached to his/her spouse,> and be famous in the world. This is a very tall achievement to be had.> > As an example to illustrate this sloka, Santhanam picks Mrs.> Gandhi’s chart. Based on Chitrapaksha ayanamsha- her ascendant is cancer and> the fifth Lord Mars is in the second house. Out of five achievements listed in> the sloka, she attained at least four.> > Now if you change the ayanamsha to Ramans, the ASc moves to> Leo and the fifth Lord Jupiter is in the tenth house providing the same> achivements to the native.. In some other cases may the opposite may end up to> be true.> > Regardless, it will certainly clarify things if we knew the> basis or the assumptions he used when he wrote all slokas. If this sloka was written before> 200 B.C, was ayanamsha considered? If not,> how are we justified in applying this to a chart (Mrs.> Gandhi’s chart) based on one Ayanamsha or the other?Regards, anantha krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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