[WAVES-Vedic] The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows"/// Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti! ///

No purana had ever said that the Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana and any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuch bluffs after bluffs.Secondly since Jyotirved does not believe in Sidereal Makar Sankranti he has no business to poke his long nose into the million dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not Jyotirved. Regards,Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya--- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote:jyotirved <jyotirved Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet Cc: hinducalendar , "'subash razdan'" <subashrazdan, vedic_research_institute , indiaarchaeology Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM

 

 

Dear friends,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

I am really amused by all this cacophony!

 

Dr. Wilkinson and his mentor Thea are of the opinion that I have absolutely no knowledge of the Vedas, especially the Rig-Veda since I am not subscribing to celebrating a so called Sayana Makar Sankranti because “ he (AKK) has no YOGIC KNOWLEDGEâ€

 

On the other hand, Shri Hari Malla is of the opinion that my views must be rejected since I am following a Sayana calendar, including a Sayana Makar Sankranti, which, according to him, is nothing but Gregorian!

 

My friend Sunil Bhattacharjya and quit a few of his friends are of the opinion that I am misleading everybody since I am not celebrating a Nirayana, that also Lahiri, Makar Sankranti!

 

All these well wishers of the Hindu community are deliberately overlooking the fact that I am neither following a so called sayana rashichakra nor nirayana rashichakra because there are no Mesha etc. rashis in the Vedas! Thus unless one does some special Tapasya and special yoga and/or unless one has some special parokshya knowledge, one cannot “see†those Mesha etc. rashis in the Vedas. And even then, there is no guarantee whether the “tapasvi†and/or the “parokshyawala†will visualize a so called Sayana Makar Sankranti or a so called nirayana one because whereas the Thea talks of having “visualized†a Sayana Makar Rashi through her tapasya and yoga, Shri Bhattacharjya claims to have visualized nirayana, and that also Lahiri, Makar and other Rashis in the Vedas!

 

But I am not celebrating a nirayana Makar Sankrnati because it has absolutely no sanction from either the sidhantas or the Puranas or even Primary School Geography, leave alone the Vedas!

 

All I am doing is celebrating Uttarayana, which has been talked about times without number in the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha and the Puranas and the sidhantas and for which ordinary mortals like me need neither any yogic experiences nor any parokshya knowledge!

 

Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti!

 

As such, I am celebrating not only one of the four most extolled cardinal points but also a Pauranic Makar Sankranti! If somebody wants to call it "Vedic" Makar Sanrkanti by dint of his or her Tapasya, that is his/her prerogative! If others like Shri Bhattacharjya do not want to call it a Makar Sankranti at all, that too is their prerogative!

 

So let everybody celebrate his/her brand of Makar Sankranti!

 

But the million dollar question is as to what about the real sidereal Makar Sankranti, which is on January 24, 2010 at 7hrs 15 mts. UT/GMT since the longitude of the sun will then be 304-11-17, which

is the exact longitude of Beta Capricorni star on that date! There appear to be no takers for the same!

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

A K Kaul

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

 

>

 

> Dear friends,

 

>

 

> PNB quoted the verse from Rig Veda (1.154.48) and that verse talks about a fixed Zodiac (ie. the Sidereal Zodiac with the fixed stars in it) which does not shake or move. The tenth month in the fixed Zodiac is no doubt the Capricorn or Makara starting from Aries or Mesha. However in the Vedic times the tenth month was not called the Makara rashi and we know from the Mahabharata that it was called the Brahma rashi. As the name indicates this rashi had a very exalted status, in keeping with the Vedic significance. The ancient Hindus related the Earth with respect to the entire universe, which of course includes the solar system, and thus it included the Stars in the path (the Gopatha) of the Sun.

 

>

 

> The ancient Hindu scholars / seers also related the Earth separately to the Solar system while considering some of the effects like the seasons and this Zodiac is called the Seasonal or Tropical Zodiac but this Zodiac, though does not conform to the Vedic verse, is still useful for noting the seasonal effects like the Summer and the Winter as well as the Monsoon cycles.

 

>

 

> This amply shows that the Makara Sankranti is rightby being observed when the Sun enters the Sidereal Makar rashi as this is the true Vedic Makar Sankranti. The Winter Solstice is a Seasonal or Tropical phenomenon and can be celebrated but not necessarily related to the Makara Rashi and can be called the Surya Jayanti or the Uttarayana Punyakala.

 

>

 

> Regards,

 

>

 

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

>

 

> --- On Sat, 11/28/09, Robert Wilkinson <robtw wrote:

 

>

 

> Robert Wilkinson <robtw

 

> [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

 

> "WAVES-Vedic" <WAVES-Vedic>

 

> Saturday, November 28, 2009, 6:40 AM

 

>

 

> The following is a letter from PNB regarding the correct calendar measure.

 

>

 

>

 

> Friends,

 

> This letter (below) is so typical of AKK. It would not be worth the trouble to counter, but there may be some students of his who should have contact with a more enlightened approach to the Hindu Calendar issue. Certainly AKK cannot offer this light. His mission in life, the purpose of his birth is to confuse the issue. He does not bring ORDER but rather this letter, if we take it as an example, presents just the sort of CHAOS and confusion he is noted for. But there is another reason for replying.

 

>

 

> How can India become the leader of nations, the Guru of the world in this new Age, if still her 'wisemen' are so xenophobic? This is first-rung business. Such prejudices are unacceptable in people who are supposed to be dealing in the sacred, because the most important qualification of this Age of Aquarius is UNIVERSALISM. If they knew astrology, they would at least know this. But the universalised, cosmic consciousness can never come about when we have 'pundits' like AKK vehemently, unendingly screaming 'Videshis'! My God, have they not learned their lesson, have they not understood the line from the Veda to the effect that 'All the world is one family?' Because of this stone-age attitude total chaos abounds in matters cosmic. The idea, as his letter reveals, is to flood the atmosphere with hundreds of 'ifs' and 'buts' and 'considerations' , and 'sects' and 'texts' and so on, apart from the usual abuses and insults, so that in the confusion

none can

 

> appreciate the simple truth right before their eyes, if they could but SEE. Indeed, this is the blind leading the blind. Those who follow such leaders can never be guided to real Knowledge.

 

>

 

> AKK goes on about the true Uttarayana, but he has no YOGIC KNOWLEDGE, and there is no other way to KNOW what that point in the cosmic harmony is without a yogic foundation of Knowledge. It has only little to do with book learning and computations. The precise timing of the entry into Capricorn and the shortest day of the year, the fourth Cardinal Pole, is a simple matter; complications are brought in only when one pundit wants to be superior to another, or gain something over another. I challenge AKK on this point. He has no idea what the Rigvedic 'Tenth Month Victory' is, which is precisely that Capricorn point of the Tropical Zodiac. There is nothing complicated about it. If it continues to be celebrated throughout India (though wrongly) it is because the Ancients had that realisation. When that happens, all this back and forth about 'which Makar Sankranti' (????) is just the usual AKK tricks to confuse the issue. He knows exactly what MS is

meant.

 

> And this has nothing to do with 'foreigners' or the so-called 'Vedic astrology' and the long list he provides. This is just obfuscation and trying to appear 'knowledgeable - but there is no knowledge, just obfuscation.

 

>

 

> These pundits must go back to the basics. They must REALISE that Truth. Only then can they speak, only then can they know what exactly needs to be updated, renewed, re-established. And they must, before all else, have the humility to recognise one who does have that knowledge. This, unfortunately is lacking. I quote Sri Aurobindo on this matter, because I came to the same conclusion: ‘… For some two thousand years at least no Indian has really understood the Vedas.’

 

>

 

> Perhaps AKK believes he is the exception and he has come to realise what the Veda contains. But if he hasn't, and this is proven by his letter, then he should remain silent since he knows nothing of matters COSMIC which are globally relevant, not reserved for India alone. After all, the West uses the right calendar. Therefore, it might be wise to listen to foreigners!

 

>

 

> The Rig Veda provides that cosmic foundation. Not the calculations and the haggling about this timing or that, about this system or that. It is about the foundation IN KNOWLEDGE which alone qualifies one to be held as a leader in this field. Then one knows beyond any doubt what Uttarayana is because one has realised it. Then there is no confusion. The verses in the Rigveda in this regard, indicating exactly where AKK has gone wrong, are the following:

 

>

 

> Twelve spokes, one wheel, navels three.

 

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> Who can comprehend this?

 

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> On it are placed together

 

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> Three hundred and sixty like pegs.

 

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> They shake not in the least.

 

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> (Rig Veda 1.154.48)

 

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> Everything one needs to know is in these lines. They indicate exactly the mistake AKK and the Vedic Astrologers have made because it is clearly stated that THE CIRCLE IS ONE. The last line in his letter reveals that he has not followed this prescription. In their wisdom the Rishis knew that the Hindu Samaj would be overwhelmed by unknowing. And so they ask, Who can comprehend this?

 

>

 

> It is time to call the bluff of these self-styled astrologers and pundits who do not know the basics of what astrology truly is and why it has played such a prominent place in Indian culture throughout the Ages until today, and throughout the world. I repeat, India does not have a monopoly on the subject, let it be known. But, as Sri Aurobindo noted, none have the Knowledge of the Veda, I am sorry to say. They have become bogged down in rituals and a thousand considerations that have no relevancy, as we note in AKK's letter.

 

>

 

> AKK has to prove that HE KNOWS. Not by flinging insults and abuses about, as is his habit, but by producing a Body of Knowledge reflective of the realisation contained in the Rigveda. That Body of Knowledge from him is no where in sight.

 

>

 

> PNB

 

> Director, Aeon Centre of Cosmology

 

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