Twin Births - The Achilles Heal of JYotish ? - A challenge

December 6, 2009

Dear Members,

Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of "Light" if it cannot throw light on "all areas". Is is possible for twins, born 2 minutes apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible, does Jyotish fall apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are there any classical reference for this?

Please give me your theoritical/practical views for the next few days and get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.

Regards,

-Manoj

December 6, 2009

Dear Manoj Chandran ji,

You are talking about 2 minutes difference. Even in 10 seconds , there

can be born two personalities absolutely apart in everything. Please

read this -

Dear all,

Recently I had a enquiry in one of the Forum I moderate as under-

//But people consider him as an elder, i refer him as my elder brother.

Why there are so many differences in twins. We r fraternal. We don't

have any resemblences. He weighs 72 Kgs (It was 84) but i am only 62

kgs. He is in abroad and I am in India. Financially He is very much

stable / Doing job. My position is not so good comparing to him

financially. I am doing my own business. Healthwise he is OK though

having some complaints but i hv health problems. I am too concerned

about small, small things and getting worried (Anxiety) but he is not

like that. I do all Vedic Karmas properly but he doesn't do anything

even Amavasya Tharpan for father being the elder. He got two male child.

I got One baby boy after a long battle. He gets everything very easily

but i get the things after a lot of struggle. Why the difference in 10

Minutes make this much difference even the Planetory positions are the

Same? He is (will be ) also running Saturn and Ketu MD.//

Why this happens ?

This happens because there must be certain changes in mathematical

points, at places where it would matter most , effecting changes in

ownership of the Lordships, which would matter very much , in imparting

results benefic or Malefic as the case may be depending on the Planet

now changed, who could be a benefic, or Malefic to the particular Lagna.

We will take one example.

1st Birth- Place Bombay

Birth today at 15.41.10 KP Ayanamsha. Lagna Scorpio 8 degrees

Moon in Visakha. Owner of this nakshatra is Jupiter.

2nd Birth- Place Bombay

Birth today at 15.41.20 KP Ayanamsha Lagna scorpio 8 Degrees.

Moon in Anuradha. Owner of this nakshatra is Saturn.

The Birth charts would remain same for both the births along with the

planetary positions.

But the Boy who is born first, would be facing superb results in his

life, with reference to Finance, and other matters, as the dispositor

nakshatra of Moon is Jupiter, who is placed in its own 2nd House

Sagiitarius.

While the boy born next would face mediocore results in those matters,

as the dispositor Nakshatra of his Moon is Saturn, who is placed in the

10th with Mars.

Both natives would show seperate behaviours with regards to eating

habits, profession, benefic results and over all Life matters.

And the difference in their birth time is just 10 seconds.

Though we have taken a change only in Moon degrees.

This example also gives us the clues, that the changes can

also manifest in the 10th cusp and ascending degrees too,

resulting in great changes in twins Lives, though born

nearly at the same time.

I have spent some time, in trying to set this example,

and hope some astrologers here would get some help from

this and understand and use these observations,

when at times they find that the effects are not

matching a natives Life in reality as per the Chart,

then too this search can be made, whether any

important factors stand to change due to few seconds or minutes

difference, which must be rectified,and then proceeded to study the

chart.

(I had written the above mail on therein referred Group on the 13th of

July 2008, Sunday,India, so if anyone wishes to make a chart, he can

take this date and check.)

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj wrote:

>

> Dear Members,

>

> Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of " Light " if

it cannot throw light on " all areas " . Is is possible for twins, born 2

minutes apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible,

does Jyotish fall apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are there

any classical reference for this?

>

> Please give me your theoritical/practical views for the next few days

and get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.

>

> Regards,

> -Manoj

>

December 6, 2009

Manoj ji;

lakitab has very interesting observation;

in case of twins; the child who is born first has been conceived later;

Pt. ji. followed a detailed analysis of the twin phenomenon;

but first tell me; do you agree that the child born first has been conceived

later and the child born later has been conceived earlier.

Regards

kulbir

, Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj wrote:

>

> Dear Members,

>

> Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of " Light " if it

cannot throw light on " all areas " . Is is possible for twins, born 2 minutes

apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible, does Jyotish fall

apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are there any classical reference

for this?

>

> Please give me your theoritical/practical views for the next few days and get

ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.

>

> Regards,

> -Manoj

>

December 6, 2009

Dear Bhaskar Ji,

Thank your for the KP point of view. How about traditional Parashari Jyotish? How do we deal with Twins in thiis situation? Any one have any ideas?

Regards,

-Manoj

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 10:02:10 AM Re: Twin Births - The Achilles Heal of JYotish ? - A challenge

Dear Manoj Chandran ji,You are talking about 2 minutes difference. Even in 10 seconds , therecan be born two personalities absolutely apart in everything. Pleaseread this -Dear all,Recently I had a enquiry in one of the Forum I moderate as under-//But people consider him as an elder, i refer him as my elder brother.Why there are so many differences in twins. We r fraternal. We don'thave any resemblences. He weighs 72 Kgs (It was 84) but i am only 62kgs. He is in abroad and I am in India. Financially He is very muchstable / Doing job. My position is not so good comparing to himfinancially. I am doing my own business. Healthwise he is OK thoughhaving some complaints but i hv health problems. I am too concernedabout small, small things and getting worried (Anxiety) but he is notlike that. I do all Vedic Karmas properly but he doesn't do anythingeven Amavasya Tharpan for

father being the elder. He got two male child.I got One baby boy after a long battle. He gets everything very easilybut i get the things after a lot of struggle. Why the difference in 10Minutes make this much difference even the Planetory positions are theSame? He is (will be ) also running Saturn and Ketu MD.//Why this happens ?This happens because there must be certain changes in mathematicalpoints, at places where it would matter most , effecting changes inownership of the Lordships, which would matter very much , in impartingresults benefic or Malefic as the case may be depending on the Planetnow changed, who could be a benefic, or Malefic to the particular Lagna.We will take one example.1st Birth- Place BombayBirth today at 15.41.10 KP Ayanamsha. Lagna Scorpio 8 degreesMoon in Visakha. Owner of this nakshatra is Jupiter.2nd Birth- Place BombayBirth today at 15.41.20

KP Ayanamsha Lagna scorpio 8 Degrees.Moon in Anuradha. Owner of this nakshatra is Saturn.The Birth charts would remain same for both the births along with theplanetary positions.But the Boy who is born first, would be facing superb results in hislife, with reference to Finance, and other matters, as the dispositornakshatra of Moon is Jupiter, who is placed in its own 2nd HouseSagiitarius.While the boy born next would face mediocore results in those matters,as the dispositor Nakshatra of his Moon is Saturn, who is placed in the10th with Mars.Both natives would show seperate behaviours with regards to eatinghabits, profession, benefic results and over all Life matters.And the difference in their birth time is just 10 seconds.Though we have taken a change only in Moon degrees.This example also gives us the clues, that the changes canalso manifest in the 10th cusp and

ascending degrees too,resulting in great changes in twins Lives, though bornnearly at the same time.I have spent some time, in trying to set this example,and hope some astrologers here would get some help fromthis and understand and use these observations,when at times they find that the effects are notmatching a natives Life in reality as per the Chart,then too this search can be made, whether anyimportant factors stand to change due to few seconds or minutesdifference, which must be rectified,and then proceeded to study thechart.(I had written the above mail on therein referred Group on the 13th ofJuly 2008, Sunday,India, so if anyone wishes to make a chart, he cantake this date and check.)best wishes,Bhaskar.ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran<chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members,>> Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of "Light" ifit cannot throw light on "all areas". Is is possible for twins, born 2minutes apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible,does Jyotish fall apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are thereany classical reference for this?>> Please give me your theoritical/ practical views for the next few daysand get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.>> Regards,> -Manoj>

December 6, 2009

Dear Manoj ji,

I have only used KP Ayanamsha in this example. remove that and insert

Lahiris. It will still work. Nakshatra is Parashari and not any alien

system. But if you mean working and analysing through the Traditional

Pandits way, then the divisional charts are the only way , one could

find the difference in Twins charts.

regards/Bhaskar.

, Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar Ji,

>

> Thank your for the KP point of view. How about traditional Parashari

Jyotish? How do we deal with Twins in thiis situation? Any one have any

ideas?

> Â

> Regards,

> Â -Manoj

> Â

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Sun, December 6, 2009 10:02:10 AM

> Re: Twin Births - The Achilles

Heal of JYotish ? - A challenge

>

> Â

>

> Dear Manoj Chandran ji,

>

> You are talking about 2 minutes difference. Even in 10 seconds , there

> can be born two personalities absolutely apart in everything. Please

> read this -

>

> Dear all,

>

> Recently I had a enquiry in one of the Forum I moderate as under-

>

> //But people consider him as an elder, i refer him as my elder

brother.

>

> Why there are so many differences in twins. We r fraternal. We don't

> have any resemblences. He weighs 72 Kgs (It was 84) but i am only 62

> kgs. He is in abroad and I am in India. Financially He is very much

> stable / Doing job. My position is not so good comparing to him

> financially. I am doing my own business. Healthwise he is OK though

> having some complaints but i hv health problems. I am too concerned

> about small, small things and getting worried (Anxiety) but he is not

> like that. I do all Vedic Karmas properly but he doesn't do anything

> even Amavasya Tharpan for father being the elder. He got two male

child.

> I got One baby boy after a long battle. He gets everything very easily

> but i get the things after a lot of struggle. Why the difference in 10

> Minutes make this much difference even the Planetory positions are the

> Same? He is (will be ) also running Saturn and Ketu MD.//

>

> Why this happens ?

>

> This happens because there must be certain changes in mathematical

> points, at places where it would matter most , effecting changes in

> ownership of the Lordships, which would matter very much , in

imparting

> results benefic or Malefic as the case may be depending on the Planet

> now changed, who could be a benefic, or Malefic to the particular

Lagna.

>

> We will take one example.

>

> 1st Birth- Place Bombay

> Birth today at 15.41.10 KP Ayanamsha. Lagna Scorpio 8 degrees

> Moon in Visakha. Owner of this nakshatra is Jupiter.

>

> 2nd Birth- Place Bombay

> Birth today at 15.41.20 KP Ayanamsha Lagna scorpio 8 Degrees.

> Moon in Anuradha. Owner of this nakshatra is Saturn.

>

> The Birth charts would remain same for both the births along with the

> planetary positions.

>

> But the Boy who is born first, would be facing superb results in his

> life, with reference to Finance, and other matters, as the dispositor

> nakshatra of Moon is Jupiter, who is placed in its own 2nd House

> Sagiitarius.

>

> While the boy born next would face mediocore results in those matters,

> as the dispositor Nakshatra of his Moon is Saturn, who is placed in

the

> 10th with Mars.

>

> Both natives would show seperate behaviours with regards to eating

> habits, profession, benefic results and over all Life matters.

>

> And the difference in their birth time is just 10 seconds.

>

> Though we have taken a change only in Moon degrees.

> This example also gives us the clues, that the changes can

> also manifest in the 10th cusp and ascending degrees too,

> resulting in great changes in twins Lives, though born

> nearly at the same time.

>

> I have spent some time, in trying to set this example,

> and hope some astrologers here would get some help from

> this and understand and use these observations,

> when at times they find that the effects are not

> matching a natives Life in reality as per the Chart,

> then too this search can be made, whether any

> important factors stand to change due to few seconds or minutes

> difference, which must be rectified,and then proceeded to study the

> chart.

> (I had written the above mail on therein referred Group on the 13th of

> July 2008, Sunday,India, so if anyone wishes to make a chart, he can

> take this date and check.)

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran

> <chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of " Light "

if

> it cannot throw light on " all areas " . Is is possible for twins, born 2

> minutes apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible,

> does Jyotish fall apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are

there

> any classical reference for this?

> >

> > Please give me your theoritical/ practical views for the next few

days

> and get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.

> >

> > Regards,

> > -Manoj

> >

>

December 6, 2009

Dear Kulbir Ji,

I am not an expert in Twins and I don't have any basis to agree or disagree. To be honest with you, I don't care that much who was conceived first or second. I am curious as to "how" to "predict" their futures.

Regards,

-Manoj

kulbir <kulbirbains Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 10:34:29 AM Re: Twin Births - The Achilles Heal of JYotish ? - A challenge

Manoj ji;lakitab has very interesting observation;in case of twins; the child who is born first has been conceived later;Pt. ji. followed a detailed analysis of the twin phenomenon;but first tell me; do you agree that the child born first has been conceived later and the child born later has been conceived earlier.Regardskulbirancient_indian_ astrology, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members,> > Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of "Light" if it cannot throw light on "all areas". Is is possible for twins, born 2 minutes apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible, does Jyotish fall apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are there

any classical reference for this?> > Please give me your theoritical/ practical views for the next few days and get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.> > Regards,> -Manoj>

December 6, 2009

Dear Kulbirji,

//do you agree that the child born first has been conceived later and the child

born later has been conceived earlier.//

I agree with you.

Thankyou,

Regards

Vijay Goel

jaipur

, " kulbir " <kulbirbains

wrote:

>

> Manoj ji;

>

> lakitab has very interesting observation;

> in case of twins; the child who is born first has been conceived later;

> Pt. ji. followed a detailed analysis of the twin phenomenon;

> but first tell me; do you agree that the child born first has been conceived

later and the child born later has been conceived earlier.

>

> Regards

> kulbir

>

> , Manoj Chandran

<chandran_manoj@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of " Light " if it

cannot throw light on " all areas " . Is is possible for twins, born 2 minutes

apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible, does Jyotish fall

apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are there any classical reference

for this?

> >

> > Please give me your theoritical/practical views for the next few days and

get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.

> >

> > Regards,

> > -Manoj

> >

>

December 6, 2009

Dear Kulbir Ji and Members,I am just curious as to how do you come to know when the child is conceived astrologically as you have pointed out in the case of twins? Vidya , "vijay.goel" <goyalvj wrote:>> Dear Kulbirji,> > //do you agree that the child born first has been conceived later and the child born later has been conceived earlier.//> > I agree with you.> > Thankyou,> Regards> Vijay Goel> jaipur> > , "kulbir" kulbirbains@ wrote:> >> > Manoj ji;> > > > lakitab has very interesting observation;> > in case of twins; the child who is born first has been conceived later;> > Pt. ji. followed a detailed analysis of the twin phenomenon;> > but first tell me; do you agree that the child born first has been conceived later and the child born later has been conceived earlier.> > > > Regards> > kulbir> > > > , Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Members,> > > > > > Of what use is a science, especially if it is a science of "Light" if it cannot throw light on "all areas". Is is possible for twins, born 2 minutes apart to have completely different lives? If this is possible, does Jyotish fall apart? How does one analyze twin(s) charts? Are there any classical reference for this?> > > > > > Please give me your theoritical/practical views for the next few days and get ready for a practical Challenge at the End of this discussion.> > > > > > Regards,> > > -Manoj> > >> >>

December 7, 2009

Dear Manoj ji,

In traditional astrology there is

definitely ways to analyze every possible chart and situation. Only thing is

one needs to follow it systematically and not do any short cuts. Chart of twins

was definitely a mystery for me and this had prompted me to follow the kp route

for some time. Then when I realized that kp is not required for that I am now

out of kp completely and I stick to what our acharyas have written for us.

In Kerala astrology, Kalachakra dasa

system has as much importance as vimshotari system and most good Kerala astrologers

check KD before giving their final judgement. The reason is very simple. KD

will be different for two people born around one and half minute apart. Does that

make their futures different? Ofcourse it does when one is undergoing mithuna

rashi dasa the other twin will be undergoing dhanu rashi lagna. How then can

they have the same life?

D60 is another important varga used by Kerala

astrology. This can be different for two people with even less than one minute

difference in time of birth.

Finally prashna is another unique concept

developed and popularized from Kerala. Prashna is nothing but horary asrology. Normally

a Kerala astrologer will perform a prashna confirmation after he has analsysed

the birth chart the traditional way. Even if the twins have arrived at the same

time, prashna cannot, obviously be done for both at the same time. So after you

finished one person and perform prashna for the next person, his aruda lagna

itself will be different creating difference in badhastana and all bhavas.

At present I am in the process of learning

and perfecting my knowledge of Kalachakra dasa.( one small caution. KD in

j/hora is wrong. The author has been informed and he in the process of making

changes in the program.

Regards

Santhosh

On Behalf Of Manoj Chandran

Sunday, December 06, 2009

11:16 PM

Re:

Re: Twin Births - The Achilles Heal of JYotish ? - A

challenge

Dear Bhaskar Ji,

Thank your for the KP point of view. How about traditional Parashari

Jyotish? How do we deal with Twins in thiis situation? Any one have any ideas?

Regards,

-Manoj

Bhaskar

<bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in>

Sun, December 6, 2009

10:02:10 AM

Re: Twin Births - The Achilles Heal of JYotish ? - A challenge