Clues from Classics - Malefics :Mixing of systems

[Guest guest]

Om Namah Sivaya

 

Namaste All,

 

Kindly let me add a few points here.

 

Yes, The mixing is not forbidden, but there has been a humble suggestion by

experts in Jaimini Astrology not to mix Parasari principles with Jaimini. Yes,

the taste of pudding is in eating and of course on the ability of the cook as

well. Yet, as Sri Bhaskar pointed out we eat south indian idli sambar as a whole

and other noth indian dishes, but I guess not mixing them in the same

plate/bowl. Kindly take it light.

 

Well, now the real question why most scholars take Parasara and Jaimini

different. There is a valid reason behind this apart from the discrepancy in

versions, chapters, sloka etc.

 

No, ancient commentator of Jaimini sutras take reference to Parasara. They

always quote the authenticity of Vriddha Karikas, but not Sage Parasara. For

example, Somanatha, the author of Kalpalatha, a wonderful commentary on Jaimini,

referred to Brihat Jataka, but not Parasara. If we follow, Sridhara Pandita

Sanskrit commentary on BPHS, published a century back, the concepts regarding

Jaimini, are more in line with ancient commentators, where as relatively modern

commentary by Sitaram Jha differs.

 

If you take available BPHS, you never find the Sampat Dasas like Chara Paryaya,

Sthira Paryaya, Bhava Rahasya dasa etc. which find an important place in most of

Jaimini commentaries. Even, if they do in some editions, they may different to

the ways used by Jaimini classics. Their way of calculating Drig Dasa, Manduka

Dasa is entirely different from what BPHS gives and they mentions the parameters

to be used with each dasa, quoting the authenticity of either Vriddha Karika or

the Jaimini Sutras, but not BPHS. Evan the later commentators like Durga Prasada

Dwivedi never quote Parasara. He took refernce to Bala Krishnananada Swami,

Neelakantha etc.

 

It is only the modern commentator Sri Sanjay Rath, who quotes only BPHS in

commenting Jaimini Sutras and no Vriddha Karikas. Kindly have a look at

Shyamasundara Dasa's article on BPHS.

 

It is not prudent to argue that these commentators didn't have access to BPHS or

they didn't care to follow Sage Parasara, since they talk of Udu dasas and the

Nakshtras and their lord etc. They always claim that this system is a secret

system and to be used as such. For example, they mention a number of Ayurdasa

like Hora, Atmanadi, Atmano Bhava Pamsa etc. and call them Antaranga sasthra and

asks us to use sparingly and they talk of Bahiranga sasthra as predictive

Phalita dasas as well.

 

If we closely follow them, their way of calculating Argala, Rajayoga, Arudha

etc. are very different from the concepts given by BPHS. So, it will good to

follow the advice by our elders not to mix. Anyway, as Sri B.V.Raman puts it,

Astrology both Scince as well as Art, so it is upto the astrologer to use the

tools.

 

Save Janah Sukhinoh Bhavantu

 

Warm Regards,

Shanmukha

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear sirs,

>

> If a person is a good cook, what is the harm in mixing Different regional

dishes for lunch ? Why cant he make a south Indian idli Sambhar, and also a

North Indian vegetable Biryani for lunch ? And dont we do the same when we

Order, Starters, Soups and then Indian food for dinner at a restauarnt ?

>

> In same way if the Astrologer is good, let him mix the systems he is

proficient and confident in. Nothing wrong here, as long whatever he serves is

right and good.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

> , Vishnu Mohan

<vishnumohanalj@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Udupa Ji,

> >

> > I dont know much about jaimini system but i will try to answer your

questions based on my current level of understanding about parashara and

jaimini.

> >

> > //Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi

aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available  in

Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra//

> > There are many versions/Editions  of BPHS available in market .Nobody has

given guarantee to which version is correct.some has 87 chapters ,some has 100

chapters and so on.So i personally dont believe those points actually belonged

there in first place.The order of shlokas is different in every edition of BPHS.

> > Even if it was from Original BPHS,it amounted only less than 10 shlokas and

very small significance is given to it as parasara doesnt talk about it or the

ways to use it anywhere further in his book.

> >

> > As far as my knowledge goes,i have seen few nadi analysis written by sages

in manuscripts where i dint find any jaimini principles used in their analysis.

> >

> > //Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?//

> >

> > Except uttarakalamrita (arudha part),no other popular classic includes

jaimini principles .Even in uttarakalamrita if you see ,you will not be able to

find any mixing of the principles .So i am not able to comment more on this as

other classics never recommended to mix them in first place.

> >

> > Jaimini principles are found in many telugu classical works and the

astrologers practising in Andhra must be in a better position to tell us how

they use parashara and jaimini together in practise.

> >

> > Thanks and best wishes

> > vishnu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Guru <ahudupa@> wrote:

> >

> > Guru <ahudupa@>

> > Re: Clues from Classics - Malefics.

> >

> > Monday, December 21, 2009, 7:43 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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> >

> > Dear Vishnu ji,     I am just referring  to one point in your

mail without any implication about other points. That is regarding th Mixing of

Jaimini system along with Parashara.    You have mentioned that you oppose

the mixing. Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi

aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available  in

Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra without a word that these principles  are

forbidden to be used when rest of the rules are used.( Correct me if I am

wrong).

> >      I have come across some other astrologers too who are opposed to

" mixing "  of these systems.    Is there any reason for your opposition to

mixing these systems? Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing

is forbidden?

> >    All this writing is not to be interpreted  as my canvassing for

mixing. I am asking with an open mind with no bias towards one way or the

other.Regards,Udupa

> >

> > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Vishnu <vishnumohanalj@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> >

> >

> > The below write up may look rude or pointing towards somebody but it is not

intended towards anybody.The intention of the post is to sharpen knowledge and

bring uniformity in discussion.

> >

> >

> >

> > We have often times come across many topics like -whether a planet is

beneficial or not?

> >

> >

> >

> > The most diplomatic answer astrologers write will be no planet can be purely

harmful or purely good.This is more or less a philosophical point.But nobody

goes further to describe when the planet does good or bad and whether the

delivery of good or bad depends upon their dasa or antardasa or transits or

yogas and fructification of the same.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Very often we also see people telling such and such dasa was completely bad

or good in their personal experience.They forget that the same planet is related

to so many other planets in the charts by aspect/association, dispositorship/

transit etc thereby its influence is always felt by the person For example if

for a person,Mars dasa is bad for whole 6 years,does Jupiter has to take the

whole blame because he is the vimshottari dasa lord?Do you think other 8 planets

are sitting in the chart dumb during those 6 years or The other 8 planet were

transiting different rashis during this 6 years just like that to obey the laws

of nature and watch what Mars was doing to the native?.How could the 8 other

planets which ensured happiness/goodness in all previous years of the native

could not do anything to the native?What happened to their good effects due to

placements in good positions in rashi and navamsha chart.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > we must understand that in different dasa systems,different planets will be

ruling at the same time for different disciplines.

> >

> >

> >

> > ok, what dasa can take a person to riches?

> >

> >

> >

> > If you take any online magazine,you can see charts of celebrities being

discussed.Each celebrity would have enjoyed stardom/happiness in a particular

planet dasa.IF you take the average,no particular planet may stand out for the

riches and the list will eventually include all planets.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dasa of any strong planet in the horoscope can give wealth,prosperity,

fame,happiness thought the karakas and bhavas which represent them are totally

different.

> >

> >

> >

> > Since we have many overlapping in significations between bhavas,between

planets and between lords this is possible.

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore it is wrong to attribute that the riches are due to so and so

planet's dasha.This diplomatic answer is actually true from a broad outlook for

an onlooker but is it not our duty to dwelve further and see why the events

occured based on a limited number of parameters not trying to convince

ourselves desperately and fooling ourselves with new karakas from other

systems.For example,when you have 5th bhava,9th bhava ,Jupiter,5th lord ,9th

lord ,5th from moon,9th from moon ,5th lord ,5th lord from moon and 5th lord

from Jupiter to identify childbirth,yet if somebody cannot explain it with the

above factors and explains it with Putrakaraka( charakaraka) ,there can be no

better way to fool ourselves.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > P.S.I mean no disrespect to jaimini system here but i oppose mixing of

Jaimini and Parasara system while predicting .

> >

> >

> >

> > I felt the above build up is necessary to go to the discussion proper.

> >

> > as we cannot ignore generalsiations in astrology because of the complex

nature of the subject and at the same time we should try to see the specific

results of planets/bhava/ karakas for a particular time period.

> >

> >

> >

> > To say whether the upcoming time is good or bad is easy for an average

astrologer.

> >

> >

> >

> > To say when the native will marry or get child in the coming years is very

tough for an average astrologer as most of the time the astrologer spends his

time on generalisations alone.This applies to majority of astrologers..

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > There are very few astrologers who work with deep deep divisional charts in

the name of research working on specificities. Though this is an appreciable

thing,they fail to see that only 20% of astrology knowledge is available to

mankind and remaining 80% is still untranslated in ancient sanskrit texts and is

readily available in manuscript form.whatever they call it research might have

been already discussed by the sages ,those divine men who gave us the name of

the planets/bhavas and divisional charts.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Now Before going to specificities, we have an issue with basics .

> >

> >

> >

> > Once a question was raised by Girish or Santosh(i am not sure whom)which

goes something like this-what should be expected of a malefic planet-strong or

weak w.r.t to Kalachakra dasha?.Nobody dared to answer except Sureshji but we

did not discuss it in detail that time.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > We are going to deal with the same question in detail exhaustively and

objectively based on classics at the end of exercise.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks and best wishes

> >

> >

> >

> > vishnu

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks and best wishes

> >

> >

> >

> > vishnu

> >

> >

> >

> >

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> >

> > --

> >

> > Please visit my website http://www.astrocar e.in

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Shanmukha ji,

A good reply indeed. Yes we must not mix them in the same bowl. and we cannot do this for Jamini and BPHS too. How can we tfreat Mars for Leo Ascendant for instance in the same bowl, when BPHS considers it as a Yogkaraka, while Jamini considers it as a badhaksthanadhipati.

My whole meaning of "mixing" refers to exactly "trying to confront the problem through seperate systems/approaches and arriving at a common factor/answer/result/prediction through these seperate systems/approaches applied to the Chart and query presented before the Astrologer who is Learned".

I would certainly not recommend mixing two systems within one system.

best wishes and kind regards,

Bhaskar.

 

, "teli_sha2002" <teli_sha2002 wrote:>> > Om Namah Sivaya> > Namaste All,> > Kindly let me add a few points here.> > Yes, The mixing is not forbidden, but there has been a humble suggestion by experts in Jaimini Astrology not to mix Parasari principles with Jaimini. Yes, the taste of pudding is in eating and of course on the ability of the cook as well. Yet, as Sri Bhaskar pointed out we eat south indian idli sambar as a whole and other noth indian dishes, but I guess not mixing them in the same plate/bowl. Kindly take it light.> > Well, now the real question why most scholars take Parasara and Jaimini different. There is a valid reason behind this apart from the discrepancy in versions, chapters, sloka etc.> > No, ancient commentator of Jaimini sutras take reference to Parasara. They always quote the authenticity of Vriddha Karikas, but not Sage Parasara. For example, Somanatha, the author of Kalpalatha, a wonderful commentary on Jaimini, referred to Brihat Jataka, but not Parasara. If we follow, Sridhara Pandita Sanskrit commentary on BPHS, published a century back, the concepts regarding Jaimini, are more in line with ancient commentators, where as relatively modern commentary by Sitaram Jha differs.> > If you take available BPHS, you never find the Sampat Dasas like Chara Paryaya, Sthira Paryaya, Bhava Rahasya dasa etc. which find an important place in most of Jaimini commentaries. Even, if they do in some editions, they may different to the ways used by Jaimini classics. Their way of calculating Drig Dasa, Manduka Dasa is entirely different from what BPHS gives and they mentions the parameters to be used with each dasa, quoting the authenticity of either Vriddha Karika or the Jaimini Sutras, but not BPHS. Evan the later commentators like Durga Prasada Dwivedi never quote Parasara. He took refernce to Bala Krishnananada Swami, Neelakantha etc.> > It is only the modern commentator Sri Sanjay Rath, who quotes only BPHS in commenting Jaimini Sutras and no Vriddha Karikas. Kindly have a look at Shyamasundara Dasa's article on BPHS.> > It is not prudent to argue that these commentators didn't have access to BPHS or they didn't care to follow Sage Parasara, since they talk of Udu dasas and the Nakshtras and their lord etc. They always claim that this system is a secret system and to be used as such. For example, they mention a number of Ayurdasa like Hora, Atmanadi, Atmano Bhava Pamsa etc. and call them Antaranga sasthra and asks us to use sparingly and they talk of Bahiranga sasthra as predictive Phalita dasas as well.> > If we closely follow them, their way of calculating Argala, Rajayoga, Arudha etc. are very different from the concepts given by BPHS. So, it will good to follow the advice by our elders not to mix. Anyway, as Sri B.V.Raman puts it, Astrology both Scince as well as Art, so it is upto the astrologer to use the tools.> > Save Janah Sukhinoh Bhavantu> > Warm Regards,> Shanmukha> > , "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > Dear sirs,> > > > If a person is a good cook, what is the harm in mixing Different regional dishes for lunch ? Why cant he make a south Indian idli Sambhar, and also a North Indian vegetable Biryani for lunch ? And dont we do the same when we Order, Starters, Soups and then Indian food for dinner at a restauarnt ?> > > > In same way if the Astrologer is good, let him mix the systems he is proficient and confident in. Nothing wrong here, as long whatever he serves is right and good.> > > > regards,> > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > , Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Udupa Ji,> > > > > > I dont know much about jaimini system but i will try to answer your questions based on my current level of understanding about parashara and jaimini.> > > > > > //Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra//> > > There are many versions/Editions  of BPHS available in market .Nobody has given guarantee to which version is correct.some has 87 chapters ,some has 100 chapters and so on.So i personally dont believe those points actually belonged there in first place.The order of shlokas is different in every edition of BPHS.> > > Even if it was from Original BPHS,it amounted only less than 10 shlokas and very small significance is given to it as parasara doesnt talk about it or the ways to use it anywhere further in his book.> > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes,i have seen few nadi analysis written by sages in manuscripts where i dint find any jaimini principles used in their analysis.> > > > > > //Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?//> > > > > > Except uttarakalamrita (arudha part),no other popular classic includes jaimini principles .Even in uttarakalamrita if you see ,you will not be able to find any mixing of the principles .So i am not able to comment more on this as other classics never recommended to mix them in first place.> > > > > > Jaimini principles are found in many telugu classical works and the astrologers practising in Andhra must be in a better position to tell us how they use parashara and jaimini together in practise.> > > > > > Thanks and best wishes> > > vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Guru <ahudupa@> wrote:> > > > > > Guru <ahudupa@>> > > Re: Clues from Classics - Malefics.> > > > > > Monday, December 21, 2009, 7:43 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vishnu ji,   I am just referring to one point in your mail without any implication about other points. That is regarding th Mixing of Jaimini system along with Parashara.   You have mentioned that you oppose the mixing. Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra without a word that these principles are forbidden to be used when rest of the rules are used.( Correct me if I am wrong).> > >    I have come across some other astrologers too who are opposed to "mixing" of these systems.   Is there any reason for your opposition to mixing these systems? Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?> > >   All this writing is not to be interpreted as my canvassing for mixing. I am asking with an open mind with no bias towards one way or the other.Regards,Udupa> > > > > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Vishnu <vishnumohanalj@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all,> > > > > > > > > > > > The below write up may look rude or pointing towards somebody but it is not intended towards anybody.The intention of the post is to sharpen knowledge and bring uniformity in discussion.> > > > > > > > > > > > We have often times come across many topics like -whether a planet is beneficial or not?> > > > > > > > > > > > The most diplomatic answer astrologers write will be no planet can be purely harmful or purely good.This is more or less a philosophical point.But nobody goes further to describe when the planet does good or bad and whether the delivery of good or bad depends upon their dasa or antardasa or transits or yogas and fructification of the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very often we also see people telling such and such dasa was completely bad or good in their personal experience.They forget that the same planet is related to so many other planets in the charts by aspect/association, dispositorship/ transit etc thereby its influence is always felt by the person For example if for a person,Mars dasa is bad for whole 6 years,does Jupiter has to take the whole blame because he is the vimshottari dasa lord?Do you think other 8 planets are sitting in the chart dumb during those 6 years or The other 8 planet were transiting different rashis during this 6 years just like that to obey the laws of nature and watch what Mars was doing to the native?.How could the 8 other planets which ensured happiness/goodness in all previous years of the native could not do anything to the native?What happened to their good effects due to placements in good positions in rashi and navamsha chart.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we must understand that in different dasa systems,different planets will be ruling at the same time for different disciplines.> > > > > > > > > > > > ok, what dasa can take a person to riches?> > > > > > > > > > > > If you take any online magazine,you can see charts of celebrities being discussed.Each celebrity would have enjoyed stardom/happiness in a particular planet dasa.IF you take the average,no particular planet may stand out for the riches and the list will eventually include all planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa of any strong planet in the horoscope can give wealth,prosperity, fame,happiness thought the karakas and bhavas which represent them are totally different.> > > > > > > > > > > > Since we have many overlapping in significations between bhavas,between planets and between lords this is possible.> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore it is wrong to attribute that the riches are due to so and so planet's dasha.This diplomatic answer is actually true from a broad outlook for an onlooker but is it not our duty to dwelve further and see why the events occured based on a limited number of parameters not trying to convince ourselves desperately and fooling ourselves with new karakas from other systems.For example,when you have 5th bhava,9th bhava ,Jupiter,5th lord ,9th lord ,5th from moon,9th from moon ,5th lord ,5th lord from moon and 5th lord from Jupiter to identify childbirth,yet if somebody cannot explain it with the above factors and explains it with Putrakaraka( charakaraka) ,there can be no better way to fool ourselves.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S.I mean no disrespect to jaimini system here but i oppose mixing of Jaimini and Parasara system while predicting .> > > > > > > > > > > > I felt the above build up is necessary to go to the discussion proper.> > > > > > as we cannot ignore generalsiations in astrology because of the complex nature of the subject and at the same time we should try to see the specific results of planets/bhava/ karakas for a particular time period.> > > > > > > > > > > > To say whether the upcoming time is good or bad is easy for an average astrologer.> > > > > > > > > > > > To say when the native will marry or get child in the coming years is very tough for an average astrologer as most of the time the astrologer spends his time on generalisations alone.This applies to majority of astrologers..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are very few astrologers who work with deep deep divisional charts in the name of research working on specificities. Though this is an appreciable thing,they fail to see that only 20% of astrology knowledge is available to mankind and remaining 80% is still untranslated in ancient sanskrit texts and is readily available in manuscript form.whatever they call it research might have been already discussed by the sages ,those divine men who gave us the name of the planets/bhavas and divisional charts.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now Before going to specificities, we have an issue with basics .> > > > > > > > > > > > Once a question was raised by Girish or Santosh(i am not sure whom)which goes something like this-what should be expected of a malefic planet-strong or weak w.r.t to Kalachakra dasha?.Nobody dared to answer except Sureshji but we did not discuss it in detail that time.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are going to deal with the same question in detail exhaustively and objectively based on classics at the end of exercise.> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best wishes> > > > > > > > > > > > vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best wishes> > > > > > > > > > > > vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Please visit my website http://www.astrocar e.in> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Respected Shanmukha ji,good post indeed and thank you for the same.//Astrology both Scince as well as Art, so it is upto the astrologer to use the tools.//Well said.....Love and regards,gopi. , "teli_sha2002" <teli_sha2002 wrote:>> > Om Namah Sivaya> > Namaste All,> > Kindly let me add a few points here.> > Yes, The mixing is not forbidden, but there has been a humble suggestion by experts in Jaimini Astrology not to mix Parasari principles with Jaimini. Yes, the taste of pudding is in eating and of course on the ability of the cook as well. Yet, as Sri Bhaskar pointed out we eat south indian idli sambar as a whole and other noth indian dishes, but I guess not mixing them in the same plate/bowl. Kindly take it light.> > Well, now the real question why most scholars take Parasara and Jaimini different. There is a valid reason behind this apart from the discrepancy in versions, chapters, sloka etc.> > No, ancient commentator of Jaimini sutras take reference to Parasara. They always quote the authenticity of Vriddha Karikas, but not Sage Parasara. For example, Somanatha, the author of Kalpalatha, a wonderful commentary on Jaimini, referred to Brihat Jataka, but not Parasara. If we follow, Sridhara Pandita Sanskrit commentary on BPHS, published a century back, the concepts regarding Jaimini, are more in line with ancient commentators, where as relatively modern commentary by Sitaram Jha differs.> > If you take available BPHS, you never find the Sampat Dasas like Chara Paryaya, Sthira Paryaya, Bhava Rahasya dasa etc. which find an important place in most of Jaimini commentaries. Even, if they do in some editions, they may different to the ways used by Jaimini classics. Their way of calculating Drig Dasa, Manduka Dasa is entirely different from what BPHS gives and they mentions the parameters to be used with each dasa, quoting the authenticity of either Vriddha Karika or the Jaimini Sutras, but not BPHS. Evan the later commentators like Durga Prasada Dwivedi never quote Parasara. He took refernce to Bala Krishnananada Swami, Neelakantha etc.> > It is only the modern commentator Sri Sanjay Rath, who quotes only BPHS in commenting Jaimini Sutras and no Vriddha Karikas. Kindly have a look at Shyamasundara Dasa's article on BPHS.> > It is not prudent to argue that these commentators didn't have access to BPHS or they didn't care to follow Sage Parasara, since they talk of Udu dasas and the Nakshtras and their lord etc. They always claim that this system is a secret system and to be used as such. For example, they mention a number of Ayurdasa like Hora, Atmanadi, Atmano Bhava Pamsa etc. and call them Antaranga sasthra and asks us to use sparingly and they talk of Bahiranga sasthra as predictive Phalita dasas as well.> > If we closely follow them, their way of calculating Argala, Rajayoga, Arudha etc. are very different from the concepts given by BPHS. So, it will good to follow the advice by our elders not to mix. Anyway, as Sri B.V.Raman puts it, Astrology both Scince as well as Art, so it is upto the astrologer to use the tools.> > Save Janah Sukhinoh Bhavantu> > Warm Regards,> Shanmukha> > , "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > Dear sirs,> > > > If a person is a good cook, what is the harm in mixing Different regional dishes for lunch ? Why cant he make a south Indian idli Sambhar, and also a North Indian vegetable Biryani for lunch ? And dont we do the same when we Order, Starters, Soups and then Indian food for dinner at a restauarnt ?> > > > In same way if the Astrologer is good, let him mix the systems he is proficient and confident in. Nothing wrong here, as long whatever he serves is right and good.> > > > regards,> > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > , Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Udupa Ji,> > > > > > I dont know much about jaimini system but i will try to answer your questions based on my current level of understanding about parashara and jaimini.> > > > > > //Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra//> > > There are many versions/Editions  of BPHS available in market .Nobody has given guarantee to which version is correct.some has 87 chapters ,some has 100 chapters and so on.So i personally dont believe those points actually belonged there in first place.The order of shlokas is different in every edition of BPHS.> > > Even if it was from Original BPHS,it amounted only less than 10 shlokas and very small significance is given to it as parasara doesnt talk about it or the ways to use it anywhere further in his book.> > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes,i have seen few nadi analysis written by sages in manuscripts where i dint find any jaimini principles used in their analysis.> > > > > > //Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?//> > > > > > Except uttarakalamrita (arudha part),no other popular classic includes jaimini principles .Even in uttarakalamrita if you see ,you will not be able to find any mixing of the principles .So i am not able to comment more on this as other classics never recommended to mix them in first place.> > > > > > Jaimini principles are found in many telugu classical works and the astrologers practising in Andhra must be in a better position to tell us how they use parashara and jaimini together in practise.> > > > > > Thanks and best wishes> > > vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Guru <ahudupa@> wrote:> > > > > > Guru <ahudupa@>> > > Re: Clues from Classics - Malefics.> > > > > > Monday, December 21, 2009, 7:43 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vishnu ji,   I am just referring to one point in your mail without any implication about other points. That is regarding th Mixing of Jaimini system along with Parashara.   You have mentioned that you oppose the mixing. Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra without a word that these principles are forbidden to be used when rest of the rules are used.( Correct me if I am wrong).> > >    I have come across some other astrologers too who are opposed to "mixing" of these systems.   Is there any reason for your opposition to mixing these systems? Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?> > >   All this writing is not to be interpreted as my canvassing for mixing. I am asking with an open mind with no bias towards one way or the other.Regards,Udupa> > > > > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Vishnu <vishnumohanalj@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all,> > > > > > > > > > > > The below write up may look rude or pointing towards somebody but it is not intended towards anybody.The intention of the post is to sharpen knowledge and bring uniformity in discussion.> > > > > > > > > > > > We have often times come across many topics like -whether a planet is beneficial or not?> > > > > > > > > > > > The most diplomatic answer astrologers write will be no planet can be purely harmful or purely good.This is more or less a philosophical point.But nobody goes further to describe when the planet does good or bad and whether the delivery of good or bad depends upon their dasa or antardasa or transits or yogas and fructification of the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very often we also see people telling such and such dasa was completely bad or good in their personal experience.They forget that the same planet is related to so many other planets in the charts by aspect/association, dispositorship/ transit etc thereby its influence is always felt by the person For example if for a person,Mars dasa is bad for whole 6 years,does Jupiter has to take the whole blame because he is the vimshottari dasa lord?Do you think other 8 planets are sitting in the chart dumb during those 6 years or The other 8 planet were transiting different rashis during this 6 years just like that to obey the laws of nature and watch what Mars was doing to the native?.How could the 8 other planets which ensured happiness/goodness in all previous years of the native could not do anything to the native?What happened to their good effects due to placements in good positions in rashi and navamsha chart.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we must understand that in different dasa systems,different planets will be ruling at the same time for different disciplines.> > > > > > > > > > > > ok, what dasa can take a person to riches?> > > > > > > > > > > > If you take any online magazine,you can see charts of celebrities being discussed.Each celebrity would have enjoyed stardom/happiness in a particular planet dasa.IF you take the average,no particular planet may stand out for the riches and the list will eventually include all planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dasa of any strong planet in the horoscope can give wealth,prosperity, fame,happiness thought the karakas and bhavas which represent them are totally different.> > > > > > > > > > > > Since we have many overlapping in significations between bhavas,between planets and between lords this is possible.> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore it is wrong to attribute that the riches are due to so and so planet's dasha.This diplomatic answer is actually true from a broad outlook for an onlooker but is it not our duty to dwelve further and see why the events occured based on a limited number of parameters not trying to convince ourselves desperately and fooling ourselves with new karakas from other systems.For example,when you have 5th bhava,9th bhava ,Jupiter,5th lord ,9th lord ,5th from moon,9th from moon ,5th lord ,5th lord from moon and 5th lord from Jupiter to identify childbirth,yet if somebody cannot explain it with the above factors and explains it with Putrakaraka( charakaraka) ,there can be no better way to fool ourselves.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S.I mean no disrespect to jaimini system here but i oppose mixing of Jaimini and Parasara system while predicting .> > > > > > > > > > > > I felt the above build up is necessary to go to the discussion proper.> > > > > > as we cannot ignore generalsiations in astrology because of the complex nature of the subject and at the same time we should try to see the specific results of planets/bhava/ karakas for a particular time period.> > > > > > > > > > > > To say whether the upcoming time is good or bad is easy for an average astrologer.> > > > > > > > > > > > To say when the native will marry or get child in the coming years is very tough for an average astrologer as most of the time the astrologer spends his time on generalisations alone.This applies to majority of astrologers..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are very few astrologers who work with deep deep divisional charts in the name of research working on specificities. Though this is an appreciable thing,they fail to see that only 20% of astrology knowledge is available to mankind and remaining 80% is still untranslated in ancient sanskrit texts and is readily available in manuscript form.whatever they call it research might have been already discussed by the sages ,those divine men who gave us the name of the planets/bhavas and divisional charts.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now Before going to specificities, we have an issue with basics .> > > > > > > > > > > > Once a question was raised by Girish or Santosh(i am not sure whom)which goes something like this-what should be expected of a malefic planet-strong or weak w.r.t to Kalachakra dasha?.Nobody dared to answer except Sureshji but we did not discuss it in detail that time.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are going to deal with the same question in detail exhaustively and objectively based on classics at the end of exercise.> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best wishes> > > > > > > > > > > > vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best wishes> > > > > > > > > > > > vishnu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Please visit my website http://www.astrocar e.in> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shanmukha ji,Thanks for the additional points.you made it crystal clear.Thanks and best wishesvishnu--- On Mon, 12/21/09, teli_sha2002 <teli_sha2002 wrote:teli_sha2002 <teli_sha2002 Re: Clues from Classics - Malefics :Mixing of systems Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 12:15 PM

 

 

 

Om Namah Sivaya

 

Namaste All,

 

Kindly let me add a few points here.

 

Yes, The mixing is not forbidden, but there has been a humble suggestion by experts in Jaimini Astrology not to mix Parasari principles with Jaimini. Yes, the taste of pudding is in eating and of course on the ability of the cook as well. Yet, as Sri Bhaskar pointed out we eat south indian idli sambar as a whole and other noth indian dishes, but I guess not mixing them in the same plate/bowl. Kindly take it light.

 

Well, now the real question why most scholars take Parasara and Jaimini different. There is a valid reason behind this apart from the discrepancy in versions, chapters, sloka etc.

 

No, ancient commentator of Jaimini sutras take reference to Parasara. They always quote the authenticity of Vriddha Karikas, but not Sage Parasara. For example, Somanatha, the author of Kalpalatha, a wonderful commentary on Jaimini, referred to Brihat Jataka, but not Parasara.. If we follow, Sridhara Pandita Sanskrit commentary on BPHS, published a century back, the concepts regarding Jaimini, are more in line with ancient commentators, where as relatively modern commentary by Sitaram Jha differs.

 

If you take available BPHS, you never find the Sampat Dasas like Chara Paryaya, Sthira Paryaya, Bhava Rahasya dasa etc. which find an important place in most of Jaimini commentaries. Even, if they do in some editions, they may different to the ways used by Jaimini classics. Their way of calculating Drig Dasa, Manduka Dasa is entirely different from what BPHS gives and they mentions the parameters to be used with each dasa, quoting the authenticity of either Vriddha Karika or the Jaimini Sutras, but not BPHS. Evan the later commentators like Durga Prasada Dwivedi never quote Parasara. He took refernce to Bala Krishnananada Swami, Neelakantha etc.

 

It is only the modern commentator Sri Sanjay Rath, who quotes only BPHS in commenting Jaimini Sutras and no Vriddha Karikas. Kindly have a look at Shyamasundara Dasa's article on BPHS.

 

It is not prudent to argue that these commentators didn't have access to BPHS or they didn't care to follow Sage Parasara, since they talk of Udu dasas and the Nakshtras and their lord etc. They always claim that this system is a secret system and to be used as such. For example, they mention a number of Ayurdasa like Hora, Atmanadi, Atmano Bhava Pamsa etc. and call them Antaranga sasthra and asks us to use sparingly and they talk of Bahiranga sasthra as predictive Phalita dasas as well.

 

If we closely follow them, their way of calculating Argala, Rajayoga, Arudha etc. are very different from the concepts given by BPHS. So, it will good to follow the advice by our elders not to mix. Anyway, as Sri B.V.Raman puts it, Astrology both Scince as well as Art, so it is upto the astrologer to use the tools.

 

Save Janah Sukhinoh Bhavantu

 

Warm Regards,

Shanmukha

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear sirs,

>

> If a person is a good cook, what is the harm in mixing Different regional dishes for lunch ? Why cant he make a south Indian idli Sambhar, and also a North Indian vegetable Biryani for lunch ? And dont we do the same when we Order, Starters, Soups and then Indian food for dinner at a restauarnt ?

>

> In same way if the Astrologer is good, let him mix the systems he is proficient and confident in. Nothing wrong here, as long whatever he serves is right and good.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Vishnu Mohan <vishnumohanalj@ > wrote:

> >

> > Dear Udupa Ji,

> >

> > I dont know much about jaimini system but i will try to answer your questions based on my current level of understanding about parashara and jaimini.

> >

> > //Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra//

> > There are many versions/Editions  of BPHS available in market .Nobody has given guarantee to which version is correct.some has 87 chapters ,some has 100 chapters and so on.So i personally dont believe those points actually belonged there in first place.The order of shlokas is different in every edition of BPHS.

> > Even if it was from Original BPHS,it amounted only less than 10 shlokas and very small significance is given to it as parasara doesnt talk about it or the ways to use it anywhere further in his book.

> >

> > As far as my knowledge goes,i have seen few nadi analysis written by sages in manuscripts where i dint find any jaimini principles used in their analysis.

> >

> > //Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?//

> >

> > Except uttarakalamrita (arudha part),no other popular classic includes jaimini principles .Even in uttarakalamrita if you see ,you will not be able to find any mixing of the principles .So i am not able to comment more on this as other classics never recommended to mix them in first place.

> >

> > Jaimini principles are found in many telugu classical works and the astrologers practising in Andhra must be in a better position to tell us how they use parashara and jaimini together in practise.

> >

> > Thanks and best wishes

> > vishnu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Guru <ahudupa@> wrote:

> >

> > Guru <ahudupa@>

> > Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Clues from Classics - Malefics.

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Monday, December 21, 2009, 7:43 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Vishnu ji,   I am just referring to one point in your mail without any implication about other points. That is regarding th Mixing of Jaimini system along with Parashara.   You have mentioned that you oppose the mixing. Though Jaimini system as a separate system is available, the Rashi aspects and the rules of all Jaimini system, Argalas etc are available in Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra without a word that these principles are forbidden to be used when rest of the rules are used.( Correct me if I am wrong).

> >    I have come across some other astrologers too who are opposed to "mixing" of these systems.   Is there any reason for your opposition to mixing these systems? Is it mentioned anywhere in any classical text that mixing is forbidden?

> >   All this writing is not to be interpreted as my canvassing for mixing. I am asking with an open mind with no bias towards one way or the other.Regards, Udupa

> >

> > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Vishnu <vishnumohanalj@ > wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> >

> >

> > The below write up may look rude or pointing towards somebody but it is not intended towards anybody.The intention of the post is to sharpen knowledge and bring uniformity in discussion.

> >

> >

> >

> > We have often times come across many topics like -whether a planet is beneficial or not?

> >

> >

> >

> > The most diplomatic answer astrologers write will be no planet can be purely harmful or purely good.This is more or less a philosophical point.But nobody goes further to describe when the planet does good or bad and whether the delivery of good or bad depends upon their dasa or antardasa or transits or yogas and fructification of the same.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Very often we also see people telling such and such dasa was completely bad or good in their personal experience.They forget that the same planet is related to so many other planets in the charts by aspect/association, dispositorship/ transit etc thereby its influence is always felt by the person For example if for a person,Mars dasa is bad for whole 6 years,does Jupiter has to take the whole blame because he is the vimshottari dasa lord?Do you think other 8 planets are sitting in the chart dumb during those 6 years or The other 8 planet were transiting different rashis during this 6 years just like that to obey the laws of nature and watch what Mars was doing to the native?.How could the 8 other planets which ensured happiness/goodness in all previous years of the native could not do anything to the native?What happened to their good effects due to placements in good positions in rashi and navamsha chart.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > we must understand that in different dasa systems,different planets will be ruling at the same time for different disciplines.

> >

> >

> >

> > ok, what dasa can take a person to riches?

> >

> >

> >

> > If you take any online magazine,you can see charts of celebrities being discussed.Each celebrity would have enjoyed stardom/happiness in a particular planet dasa.IF you take the average,no particular planet may stand out for the riches and the list will eventually include all planets.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dasa of any strong planet in the horoscope can give wealth,prosperity, fame,happiness thought the karakas and bhavas which represent them are totally different.

> >

> >

> >

> > Since we have many overlapping in significations between bhavas,between planets and between lords this is possible.

> >

> >

> >

> > Therefore it is wrong to attribute that the riches are due to so and so planet's dasha.This diplomatic answer is actually true from a broad outlook for an onlooker but is it not our duty to dwelve further and see why the events occured based on a limited number of parameters not trying to convince ourselves desperately and fooling ourselves with new karakas from other systems.For example,when you have 5th bhava,9th bhava ,Jupiter,5th lord ,9th lord ,5th from moon,9th from moon ,5th lord ,5th lord from moon and 5th lord from Jupiter to identify childbirth,yet if somebody cannot explain it with the above factors and explains it with Putrakaraka( charakaraka) ,there can be no better way to fool ourselves.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > P.S.I mean no disrespect to jaimini system here but i oppose mixing of Jaimini and Parasara system while predicting .

> >

> >

> >

> > I felt the above build up is necessary to go to the discussion proper.

> >

> > as we cannot ignore generalsiations in astrology because of the complex nature of the subject and at the same time we should try to see the specific results of planets/bhava/ karakas for a particular time period.

> >

> >

> >

> > To say whether the upcoming time is good or bad is easy for an average astrologer.

> >

> >

> >

> > To say when the native will marry or get child in the coming years is very tough for an average astrologer as most of the time the astrologer spends his time on generalisations alone.This applies to majority of astrologers. .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > There are very few astrologers who work with deep deep divisional charts in the name of research working on specificities. Though this is an appreciable thing,they fail to see that only 20% of astrology knowledge is available to mankind and remaining 80% is still untranslated in ancient sanskrit texts and is readily available in manuscript form.whatever they call it research might have been already discussed by the sages ,those divine men who gave us the name of the planets/bhavas and divisional charts.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Now Before going to specificities, we have an issue with basics .

> >

> >

> >

> > Once a question was raised by Girish or Santosh(i am not sure whom)which goes something like this-what should be expected of a malefic planet-strong or weak w.r.t to Kalachakra dasha?.Nobody dared to answer except Sureshji but we did not discuss it in detail that time.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > We are going to deal with the same question in detail exhaustively and objectively based on classics at the end of exercise.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks and best wishes

> >

> >

> >

> > vishnu

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks and best wishes

> >

> >

> >

> > vishnu

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> >

> > Please visit my website http://www.astrocar e.in

> >

>