Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear All, I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?Love and regards, Sreenadh 1 of 1 File(s) ASTROLOGY AND GURBANI.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear All, The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhsmit.nl/h-indi2.htm Is that so?=============During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.=============Love and regards,Sreenadh--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG <sreesog wrote:Sreenadh OG <sreesogAstrology and Gurbani"AIA" Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PMDear All, I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?Love and regards, Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Sreenadh ji, Just ask them a simple question. When did the sikh religon adopted practise of Anand Karaj for solemnisation of marriage ceremony i.e When was the practise of traditional Hindu custom stopped to adopt this new system? and of course WHY and by WHOM? The answer will remove all your doubts. RegardsKulbir Bains Sreenadh OG <sreesogAIA Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:30:04 AM Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear All, The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhs mit.nl/h- indi2.htm Is that so?============ =During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.============ =Love and regards, Sreenadh--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG <sreesog (AT) (DOT) .com> wrote: Sreenadh OG <sreesog >Astrology and Gurbani"AIA" <ancient_indian_ astrology>Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PM Dear All, I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?Love and regards, Sreenadh The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Sreenadh ji, I am posting copy of message number 29261 that posted in the group. Respected Members;May be this could be helpful for Vedic astrology scholars and students;I found some material interesting for astrology students while studying Historyof Punjab.The Books BLOODBATH AFTER MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH and MAHARAJA AND THE KOHINOOR byShri Avtar Singh Gill refer to a book UMDAT UT TWARIKH by Lala Sohan Lal Suriwho was the Vakil And Waqai Nawis (recorder of day to day events) of the LahoreDurbar.1. Sohan Lal studied the book JAMAI-I-BEHIQI and found the influence of theplanet corresponding to the horoscope of Maharaja that "whoever falls in the 5thcolumn of utraid, paralysis of tounge afflicts him.2. on June 1839 Sohan lal told Bhai Gobind Ram that entry into Lahore on the8th point under Venus in the estimate about the ascendant star was very bad andominous on which he produced a wrinkle on his forehead, expressing his worry,but Sohan Lal informed him that all other moments were very good for entering,but the presence of ASVADULLAUN (black colour) must precede it, adding that itdid not guarantee physical health of the Maharaja. The maharaja had howeverentered the city.Now onwards Maharaja refers to Kharak Singh successor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.…Accordingly, Lala Sohan lal was sent for from Lahore to Amritsar…… he inspectedthe condition of the disposition and examined the influence of the planets, anddiscovered that the influence of the disease was strong and the temperament wasweak. He was deputed to treat the maharaja earnestly and the latter awarded hima village near Lahore against the payment of one thousand per year. Thephysician astrologer however, apologized that he would do so after the passingof the month of kartik i.e middle of nov 1840. he instructed that only a paltrysum of Rs 40 or 50 should be spent daily on sweatmeats etc. in connection withthe worship of the planets and must be distributed among the really poor andneedy. In the book written by Kaul Nain son of sohan lal astronomer, it wasrecorded that when the horoscope of one's birth and the horoscope of thebeginning of any year of anyone corresponds to eclipse, the cup of the life ofthat person begins to overflow. As an eclipse took place on February 17, 1840(phagan 8) and the beginning of the new year of the life of the maharaja fell onFebruary 21 (phagan 12) when the day was to have advanced about 7 hours, and theascendant star was going to enter Sagittarius, therefore, its various positionswere recorded. The ascendant star in Combust pointed out that the cup of life ofone born under its influence was to overflow………………because the first columnpointed to the corpus and corpus meant body and so it pointed out that the bodyof the maharaja would be destroyed because at that time he was under theascendant star in combust. They further remarked that it would be an ominousyear for the kunwar as well , on account of 2 reasons.1. the ascendant star of the kanwar was also at that time in combust2. the horoscope of the year had also been extracted at that time.the sketch prepared at that time was recorded by lala sohan lal suri in thePersian work of umdat-ut-tawarikh.Maharaja expired on nov 5, 1840, and the kanwar naunihal singh was murdered soonafter cremation of maharaja.. RegardsKulbir Bains Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb Sent: Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:47:14 AMRe: Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear Sreenadh ji, Just ask them a simple question. When did the sikh religon adopted practise of Anand Karaj for solemnisation of marriage ceremony i.e When was the practise of traditional Hindu custom stopped to adopt this new system? and of course WHY and by WHOM? The answer will remove all your doubts. RegardsKulbir Bains Sreenadh OG <sreesog >AIA <ancient_indian_ astrology>Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:30:04 AM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear All, The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhs mit.nl/h- indi2.htm Is that so?============ =During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.============ =Love and regards, Sreenadh--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG <sreesog (AT) (DOT) .com> wrote: Sreenadh OG <sreesog >Astrology and Gurbani"AIA" <ancient_indian_ astrology>Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PM Dear All, I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?Love and regards, Sreenadh The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Sheevani Ji, Please do some research about birth date of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, It was changed for political considerations. RegardsKulbir Bains Sheevani <sheevani147Sent: Mon, 1 February, 2010 6:35:37 AM Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear Bhaskar jiNamaste.//Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levelsof productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny andfortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain ruleswhich disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology orsuch forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks topursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work,labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief inAstrology,// /I personally belief this might have been a factor ..What is important to remember, that during the time of Guru Nanak, there were too many divisions in the society and the Moguls rule through rather brutal inconsitent laws.Baba Guru Nanak did not set out to form a new religion, but to bring peace and unity in the community. As the community then consisted of mainly muslims and hindus, he adviced a way of living which brought out the best of both religions and create a more united community.Sikhism simplified areas of the Hindu religion which was causing the greatest aggravation, which was which Diety to call God and also aimed to get rid of the caste system.Muslims felt obliged to follow their religious teaching to the letter for fear of punishment by God and being destroyed by God etc. for they dont believe in incarnation and feared the soul after death would be tortured etc Baba Nanakji, preached that God is always merciful and full of love.. All pains and sufferings were due to the individuals own karma, and some of these could be cleansed with help of good actions and help of Guru etc..I feel astrology was one of those divisory factors, which inflicted a lot of pain on indivduals who had weak charts and were treated as unlucky persons, who can be mistreated/condemne d by others etc..As usual, females who had widowhood showing in their charts etc were treated especially badly by the immediate families and community.warmest regardsSheevaniancient_indian_ astrology@ .. com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> > There may also be matters which do not appear clear to the eye. But> which only the originator or the Head of the particular Sect may be> knowing the real reason, purpose or purport.> > For instance somebody to prove that he is different and to proclaim> excusive rules for his sect, he may disaasociate himself from the> commonly followed norms, ideas and prevalent forms of action, knowledge> and beliefs, of the era and day.> > For instance I may tell my followers that "You must start reading a book> from the back page". Or "do not worship stone statues" Or " Do not eat> anythng which is produced below the ground" Or " Do not use weapons but> use your hands to kill when situations demand" etc.etc.> > Got my point ?> > Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels> of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and> fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules> which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or> such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to> pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work,> labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in> Astrology, though they may be fully knowing inside that Astrology is> good. Thsi may eb a temporary rule, but since not revoked during the> Life time of the saint, remains to stay forever and is in time to come,> considered a Strict Dictum to be followed, though the Rule maker may> have never wished so.> > Bhaskar.> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, devisigh> <devisingh.rajput@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadh JI,> >> > I am looking with different eye and not finding any controversial> below> > are my thoughts.> >> > When we looking through time in going into past> > situation/environme nt/condition/ intellect/ human it become essential to> > deny Astrology by saint> > when such talk is given by saint that tells that something is critical> > which will be missed from human (human is concern)on accepting> > astrology, which most of people will loose (not all) and they need to> > denied the Astrology.> >> > Astrology is rather path/tool can be selected/facilitate to reach at> > same location/truth where human have to reach.> >> > It depends on time...i am sure if same saint came now they will> suggest> > astrology to many people> >> > --Guru is not-essential to reach but essential for this.> > ------------ ------> > Regards,> > Devisingh> >> > Sreenadh OG wrote:> > >> > > [Attachment( s) <#TopText> from Sreenadh OG included below]> > >> > > Dear All,> > > I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article> > > states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and> > > astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more> > > light on this (possibly controversial) topic?> > > Love and regards,> > > *Sreenadh*> > >> > >> > >> >> Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Bhaskar ji, Beautiful points - well presented! I agree with you. Love and hugs, Sreenadh , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > There may also be matters which do not appear clear to the eye. But > which only the originator or the Head of the particular Sect may be > knowing the real reason, purpose or purport. > > For instance somebody to prove that he is different and to proclaim > excusive rules for his sect, he may disaasociate himself from the > commonly followed norms, ideas and prevalent forms of action, knowledge > and beliefs, of the era and day. > > For instance I may tell my followers that " You must start reading a book > from the back page " . Or " do not worship stone statues " Or " Do not eat > anythng which is produced below the ground " Or " Do not use weapons but > use your hands to kill when situations demand " etc.etc. > > Got my point ? > > Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels > of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and > fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules > which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or > such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to > pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work, > labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in > Astrology, though they may be fully knowing inside that Astrology is > good. Thsi may eb a temporary rule, but since not revoked during the > Life time of the saint, remains to stay forever and is in time to come, > considered a Strict Dictum to be followed, though the Rule maker may > have never wished so. > > Bhaskar. > > > , devisigh > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh JI, > > > > I am looking with different eye and not finding any controversial > below > > are my thoughts. > > > > When we looking through time in going into past > > situation/environment/condition/intellect/human it become essential to > > deny Astrology by saint > > when such talk is given by saint that tells that something is critical > > which will be missed from human (human is concern)on accepting > > astrology, which most of people will loose (not all) and they need to > > denied the Astrology. > > > > Astrology is rather path/tool can be selected/facilitate to reach at > > same location/truth where human have to reach. > > > > It depends on time...i am sure if same saint came now they will > suggest > > astrology to many people > > > > --Guru is not-essential to reach but essential for this. > > ------------------ > > Regards, > > Devisingh > > > > Sreenadh OG wrote: > > > > > > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Sreenadh OG included below] > > > > > > Dear All, > > > I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article > > > states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and > > > astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more > > > light on this (possibly controversial) topic? > > > Love and regards, > > > *Sreenadh* > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Sheevani ji, That is a good mail - Thought provoking. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " Sheevani " <sheevani147 wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji > > Namaste. > > //Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels > of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and > fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules > which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or > such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to > pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work,labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in > Astrology,/// > > I personally belief this might have been a factor .. > > What is important to remember, that during the time of Guru Nanak, there were too many divisions in the society and the Moguls rule through rather brutal inconsitent laws. > > Baba Guru Nanak did not set out to form a new religion, but to bring peace and unity in the community. As the community then consisted of mainly muslims and hindus, he adviced a way of living which brought out the best of both religions and create a more united community. > > Sikhism simplified areas of the Hindu religion which was causing the greatest aggravation, which was which Diety to call God and also aimed to get rid of the caste system. > > Muslims felt obliged to follow their religious teaching to the letter for fear of punishment by God and being destroyed by God etc. for they dont believe in incarnation and feared the soul after death would be tortured etc > > Baba Nanakji, preached that God is always merciful and full of love.. All pains and sufferings were due to the individuals own karma, and some of these could be cleansed with help of good actions and help of Guru etc. > > I feel astrology was one of those divisory factors, which inflicted a lot of pain on indivduals who had weak charts and were treated as unlucky persons, who can be mistreated/condemned by others etc.. > As usual, females who had widowhood showing in their charts etc were treated especially badly by the immediate families and community. > > warmest regards > Sheevani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Kulbir ji, That is an interesting and informative story. Thanks for sharing. Love and regards, Sreenadh , Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji, >  I am posting copy of message number 29261 that posted in the group. > Respected Members; > May be this could be helpful for Vedic astrology scholars and students; > > I found some material interesting for astrology students while studying History > of Punjab. > The Books BLOODBATH AFTER MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH and MAHARAJA AND THE KOHINOOR by > Shri Avtar Singh Gill refer to a book UMDAT UT TWARIKH by Lala Sohan Lal Suri > who was the Vakil And Waqai Nawis (recorder of day to day events) of the Lahore > Durbar. > 1. Sohan Lal studied the book JAMAI-I-BEHIQI and found the influence of the > planet corresponding to the horoscope of Maharaja that " whoever falls in the 5th > column of utraid, paralysis of tounge afflicts him. > 2. on June 1839 Sohan lal told Bhai Gobind Ram that entry into Lahore on the > 8th point under Venus in the estimate about the ascendant star was very bad and > ominous on which he produced a wrinkle on his forehead, expressing his worry, > but Sohan Lal informed him that all other moments were very good for entering, > but the presence of ASVADULLAUN (black colour) must precede it, adding that it > did not guarantee physical health of the Maharaja. The maharaja had however > entered the city. > Now onwards Maharaja refers to Kharak Singh successor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. > …Accordingly, Lala Sohan lal was sent for from Lahore to Amritsar…… he inspected > the condition of the disposition and examined the influence of the planets, and > discovered that the influence of the disease was strong and the temperament was > weak. He was deputed to treat the maharaja earnestly and the latter awarded him > a village near Lahore against the payment of one thousand per year. The > physician astrologer however, apologized that he would do so after the passing > of the month of kartik i.e middle of nov 1840. he instructed that only a paltry > sum of Rs 40 or 50 should be spent daily on sweatmeats etc. in connection with > the worship of the planets and must be distributed among the really poor and > needy. In the book written by Kaul Nain son of sohan lal astronomer, it was > recorded that when the horoscope of one's birth and the horoscope of the > beginning of any year of anyone corresponds to eclipse, the cup of the life of > that person begins to overflow. As an eclipse took place on February 17, 1840 > (phagan 8) and the beginning of the new year of the life of the maharaja fell on > February 21 (phagan 12) when the day was to have advanced about 7 hours, and the > ascendant star was going to enter Sagittarius, therefore, its various positions > were recorded. The ascendant star in Combust pointed out that the cup of life of > one born under its influence was to overflow………………because the first column > pointed to the corpus and corpus meant body and so it pointed out that the body > of the maharaja would be destroyed because at that time he was under the > ascendant star in combust. They further remarked that it would be an ominous > year for the kunwar as well , on account of 2 reasons. > 1. the ascendant star of the kanwar was also at that time in combust > 2. the horoscope of the year had also been extracted at that time. > the sketch prepared at that time was recorded by lala sohan lal suri in the > Persian work of umdat-ut-tawarikh. > Maharaja expired on nov 5, 1840, and the kanwar naunihal singh was murdered soon > after cremation of maharaja.. >  Regards > Kulbir Bains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Sreenadh ji, I post only facts no stories. Par bhai aap pitwaoge. RegardsKulbir Bains sreesog <sreesog Sent: Mon, 1 February, 2010 8:21:46 AM Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear Kulbir ji, That is an interesting and informative story. Thanks for sharing. Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,>  I am posting copy of message number 29261 that posted in the group.> Respected Members;> May be this could be helpful for Vedic astrology scholars and students;> > I found some material interesting for astrology students while studying History> of Punjab.> The Books BLOODBATH AFTER MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH and MAHARAJA AND THE KOHINOOR by> Shri Avtar Singh Gill refer to a book UMDAT UT TWARIKH by Lala Sohan Lal Suri> who was the Vakil And Waqai Nawis (recorder of day to day events) of the Lahore> Durbar.> 1. Sohan Lal studied the book JAMAI-I-BEHIQI and found the influence of the> planet corresponding to the horoscope of Maharaja that "whoever falls in the 5th> column of utraid, paralysis of tounge afflicts him.> 2. on June 1839 Sohan lal told Bhai Gobind Ram that entry into Lahore on the> 8th point under Venus in the estimate about the ascendant star was very bad and> ominous on which he produced a wrinkle on his forehead, expressing his worry,> but Sohan Lal informed him that all other moments were very good for entering,> but the presence of ASVADULLAUN (black colour) must precede it, adding that it> did not guarantee physical health of the Maharaja. The maharaja had however> entered the city.> Now onwards Maharaja refers to Kharak Singh successor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.> …Accordingly, Lala Sohan lal was sent for from Lahore to Amritsar…… he inspected> the condition of the disposition and examined the influence of the planets, and> discovered that the influence of the disease was strong and the temperament was> weak. He was deputed to treat the maharaja earnestly and the latter awarded him> a village near Lahore against the payment of one thousand per year. The> physician astrologer however, apologized that he would do so after the passing> of the month of kartik i.e middle of nov 1840. he instructed that only a paltry> sum of Rs 40 or 50 should be spent daily on sweatmeats etc. in connection with> the worship of the planets and must be distributed among the really poor and> needy. In the book written by Kaul Nain son of sohan lal astronomer, it was> recorded that when the horoscope of one's birth and the horoscope of the> beginning of any year of anyone corresponds to eclipse, the cup of the life of> that person begins to overflow. As an eclipse took place on February 17, 1840> (phagan 8) and the beginning of the new year of the life of the maharaja fell on> February 21 (phagan 12) when the day was to have advanced about 7 hours, and the> ascendant star was going to enter Sagittarius, therefore, its various positions> were recorded. The ascendant star in Combust pointed out that the cup of life of> one born under its influence was to overflow………………because the first column> pointed to the corpus and corpus meant body and so it pointed out that the body> of the maharaja would be destroyed because at that time he was under the> ascendant star in combust. They further remarked that it would be an ominous> year for the kunwar as well , on account of 2 reasons.> 1. the ascendant star of the kanwar was also at that time in combust> 2. the horoscope of the year had also been extracted at that time.> the sketch prepared at that time was recorded by lala sohan lal suri in the> Persian work of umdat-ut-tawarikh.> Maharaja expired on nov 5, 1840, and the kanwar naunihal singh was murdered soon> after cremation of maharaja..>  Regards> Kulbir Bains Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Kulbir ji, Namaste, Thank you, I shall definately look into this. So far, I have already come up with 3 different dates but will look further into this. Any information that you may give will also be much appreciated.. There is also some controvesy about his birth being during vaisaki(new moon) or poonarmasi..(full moon). The dates I have so far are,, Wikipedia - 14th April 1469 Info-sikh.com - 7th July 1656 Likhari.com - 15th April 1469 But, traditionally Guru Nanakji's birthday is celebrated in November. warmest regards Sheevani , Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb wrote: > > Sheevani Ji, > > Please do some research about birth date of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, > It was changed for political considerations. > Â Regards > Kulbir Bains > > > > > ________________________________ > Sheevani <sheevani147 > > Mon, 1 February, 2010 6:35:37 AM > Re: Astrology and Gurbani > > Â > Dear Bhaskar ji > > Namaste. > > //Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels > of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and > fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules > which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or > such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to > pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work,labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in > Astrology,// / > > I personally belief this might have been a factor .. > > What is important to remember, that during the time of Guru Nanak, there were too many divisions in the society and the Moguls rule through rather brutal inconsitent laws. > > Baba Guru Nanak did not set out to form a new religion, but to bring peace and unity in the community. As the community then consisted of mainly muslims and hindus, he adviced a way of living which brought out the best of both religions and create a more united community. > > Sikhism simplified areas of the Hindu religion which was causing the greatest aggravation, which was which Diety to call God and also aimed to get rid of the caste system. > > Muslims felt obliged to follow their religious teaching to the letter for fear of punishment by God and being destroyed by God etc. for they dont believe in incarnation and feared the soul after death would be tortured etc > > Baba Nanakji, preached that God is always merciful and full of love.. All pains and sufferings were due to the individuals own karma, and some of these could be cleansed with help of good actions and help of Guru etc. > > I feel astrology was one of those divisory factors, which inflicted a lot of pain on indivduals who had weak charts and were treated as unlucky persons, who can be mistreated/condemne d by others etc.. > As usual, females who had widowhood showing in their charts etc were treated especially badly by the immediate families and community. > > warmest regards > Sheevani > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > There may also be matters which do not appear clear to the eye. But > > which only the originator or the Head of the particular Sect may be > > knowing the real reason, purpose or purport. > > > > For instance somebody to prove that he is different and to proclaim > > excusive rules for his sect, he may disaasociate himself from the > > commonly followed norms, ideas and prevalent forms of action, knowledge > > and beliefs, of the era and day. > > > > For instance I may tell my followers that " You must start reading a book > > from the back page " . Or " do not worship stone statues " Or " Do not eat > > anythng which is produced below the ground " Or " Do not use weapons but > > use your hands to kill when situations demand " etc.etc. > > > > Got my point ? > > > > Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels > > of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and > > fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules > > which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or > > such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to > > pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work, > > labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in > > Astrology, though they may be fully knowing inside that Astrology is > > good. Thsi may eb a temporary rule, but since not revoked during the > > Life time of the saint, remains to stay forever and is in time to come, > > considered a Strict Dictum to be followed, though the Rule maker may > > have never wished so. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, devisigh > > <devisingh.rajput@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh JI, > > > > > > I am looking with different eye and not finding any controversial > > below > > > are my thoughts. > > > > > > When we looking through time in going into past > > > situation/environme nt/condition/ intellect/ human it become essential to > > > deny Astrology by saint > > > when such talk is given by saint that tells that something is critical > > > which will be missed from human (human is concern)on accepting > > > astrology, which most of people will loose (not all) and they need to > > > denied the Astrology. > > > > > > Astrology is rather path/tool can be selected/facilitate to reach at > > > same location/truth where human have to reach. > > > > > > It depends on time...i am sure if same saint came now they will > > suggest > > > astrology to many people > > > > > > --Guru is not-essential to reach but essential for this. > > > ------------ ------ > > > Regards, > > > Devisingh > > > > > > Sreenadh OG wrote: > > > > > > > > [Attachment( s) <#TopText> from Sreenadh OG included below] > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article > > > > states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and > > > > astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more > > > > light on this (possibly controversial) topic? > > > > Love and regards, > > > > *Sreenadh* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Kulbir Ji , Only that is why they choose abhijit muhurat to anand karaj, In evening or other time anand karaj is not valid, We can do all good work in abhijit muhurat all the days in year, Sunday is chosen as it is related with sun & vary strong abhijit muhurat. if I wrong you can correct me With Regards suresh awasthi--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb wrote: Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkbRe: Re: Astrology and Gurbani Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:47 PM Dear Sreenadh ji, Just ask them a simple question. When did the sikh religon adopted practise of Anand Karaj for solemnisation of marriage ceremony i.e When was the practise of traditional Hindu custom stopped to adopt this new system? and of course WHY and by WHOM? The answer will remove all your doubts. RegardsKulbir Bains Sreenadh OG <sreesog >AIA <ancient_indian_ astrology>Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:30:04 AM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear All, The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhs mit.nl/h- indi2.htm Is that so?============ =During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.============ =Love and regards, Sreenadh--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG <sreesog (AT) (DOT) .com> wrote: Sreenadh OG <sreesog >Astrology and Gurbani"AIA" <ancient_indian_ astrology>Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PM Dear All, I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?Love and regards, Sreenadh The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dear Kubir ji, From wikipedea I got the following info about Anand Karaj. But how this info fits into or correlate with the subject under discussion? Can you please elaborate and explain this to us?Love and regards,Sreenadh==========History of Anand KarajThe history of Anand marriage ceremony is traced back to the time of GURU Amar Das (1479-1574), who composed the long 40 stanza hymn Anandu, in the Ramkali measure, suitable to be sung or recited on all occasions of religious import. His successor, Guru Ram Das, composed a four stanza hymn, Lavan, which is recited and sung to solemnize nuptials. During the time of Maharaja RANJIT SINGH and his successors, however, this ceremony fell into partial disuse under renewed Brahmanical influence at court as well as in society. The Nirankari reform movement of the mid 19th century made the practice of Anand ceremony a vital plank in its programme as did the later, more widely influential Singh Sabha. But there was opposition from the Arya Samajis and Brahman priestly classes, the former anxious to prove that the Sikhs were but a sect of the Hindus and hence subject to Hindu Law, and the latter apprehensive of a reduction in their clientele and income. The Sikh form of wedding ceremonial eventually received legal sanction through the Anand Marriage Act which was adopted in 1909. The ceremony is now universally observed by the Sikhs.========== , Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > Just ask them a simple question.> When did the sikh religon adopted practise of Anand Karaj for solemnisation of marriage ceremony i.e When was the practise of traditional Hindu custom stopped to adopt this new system?> and of course WHY and by WHOM?> The answer will remove all your doubts.> >  Regards> Kulbir Bains > > > > > ________________________________> Sreenadh OG sreesog AIA > Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:30:04 AM> Re: Astrology and Gurbani> >  > Dear All,>   The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhs mit.nl/h- indi2.htm>   Is that so?> ============ => During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.> ============ => Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG sreesog (AT) (DOT) .com> wrote:> > > >Sreenadh OG sreesog >> >Astrology and Gurbani> >"AIA" <ancient_indian_ astrology>> >Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PM> >> >> >Dear All,> >  I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?> >Love and regards, > >> >Sreenadh > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Dear Sreenodh ji, //The history of Anand marriage ceremony is traced back to the time of GURU Amar Das (1479-1574), who composed the long 40 stanza hymn Anandu, in the Ramkali measure, suitable to be sung or recited on all occasions of religious import. His successor, Guru Ram Das, composed a four stanza hymn, Lavan, which is recited and sung to solemnize nuptials. During the time of Maharaja RANJIT SINGH and his successors, however, this ceremony fell into partial disuse under renewed Brahmanical influence at court as well as in society.// No dispute about composition. As long as Maharaja Ranjit Singh was alive there was no problem. The Sikh ‘Anand Marriage Act’, with the assistance of the King of Patiala and the Namdhari Guru, Baba Partap Singh, was passed by British on 20th October 1909. King of Patiala referred here is Maharaja Bhupinder Singh of Patala. His forces helped britishers in suppressing the first war of independence and was loyal to the british to the hilt. He might have done this owing to political compulsions but in his personal life he was a great devotee of Maa Mahakaali and avid follower and practitioner of Kaul Tantra. The famous Kaali temple at Patiala, relics displayed at Sheesh Mahal Patiala and the famous book MAHARAJA by DIWAN JARMANI DAAS bear testimony to this fact. The paintings at the palace are dedicated to Shri Krishna than anybody else. Qila Mubarak at Patiala established by his ancestors still has a dhoona lit by a siddh with fire still burning contnously for over 300 hundred years. First Anand Karaj Marriage --In Rawalpindi dyaal singh began to operate a small grocery shop. He would go to the town of Bhora to buy goods in bulk. There he would be sure to visit the dera of Sant budhu Shah. There he would engage in Gurbani discourses . A charan Dass kapoor who was a regular there was so impressed with the deep knowledge and stunning good looks of the young Dyaal Singh..that he offered the hand of his daughter in marriage to him. Soon the first opportunity to bring Gurbani into practice arose. Charan Dass didn’t want to arrange the marriage in the Month of CHET because it was an ashubh – unlucky month !! With the compete agreement of Sant Budhu Shaha Ji..Dyaal Singh managed to convince Charan Dass ji that such thoughts and practices were anti-Gurmatt. The Marriage took place in Chet..First victory for Dyaal Singh. Secondly Dyaal Ji insisted that his marriage would be in the Dharamshala…with accompanying KIRTAN only..No fire etc and no other shuguns..offerings..and certainly no daaj vikhava etc. That’s the way it was for the 25 year old handsome groom Dyaal Singh….This marriage can be aptly described as the very First Anand Karaj. //The ceremony is now universally observed by the Sikhs.// It has been imposed by divide and rule and stick and carrot policy of britishers and as followed by vested interests.RegardsKulbir Bains sreesog <sreesog Sent: Mon, 1 February, 2010 10:31:57 AM Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear Kubir ji, From wikipedea I got the following info about Anand Karaj. But how this info fits into or correlate with the subject under discussion? Can you please elaborate and explain this to us?Love and regards,Sreenadh========== History of Anand Karaj The history of Anand marriage ceremony is traced back to the time of GURU Amar Das (1479-1574), who composed the long 40 stanza hymn Anandu, in the Ramkali measure, suitable to be sung or recited on all occasions of religious import. His successor, Guru Ram Das, composed a four stanza hymn, Lavan, which is recited and sung to solemnize nuptials. During the time of Maharaja RANJIT SINGH and his successors, however, this ceremony fell into partial disuse under renewed Brahmanical influence at court as well as in society. The Nirankari reform movement of the mid 19th century made the practice of Anand ceremony a vital plank in its programme as did the later, more widely influential Singh Sabha. But there was opposition from the Arya Samajis and Brahman priestly classes, the former anxious to prove that the Sikhs were but a sect of the Hindus and hence subject to Hindu Law, and the latter apprehensive of a reduction in their clientele and income. The Sikh form of wedding ceremonial eventually received legal sanction through the Anand Marriage Act which was adopted in 1909. The ceremony is now universally observed by the Sikhs.==========ancient_indian_ astrology, Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > Just ask them a simple question.> When did the sikh religon adopted practise of Anand Karaj for solemnisation of marriage ceremony i.e When was the practise of traditional Hindu custom stopped to adopt this new system?> and of course WHY and by WHOM?> The answer will remove all your doubts.> >  Regards> Kulbir Bains > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Sreenadh OG sreesog AIA ancient_indian_ astrology> Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:30:04 AM> Subject: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Astrology and Gurbani> >  > Dear All,>   The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhs mit.nl/h- indi2.htm>   Is that so?> ============ => During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.> ============ => Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG sreesog (AT) (DOT) .com> wrote:> > > >Sreenadh OG sreesog (AT) (DOT) com>> >Astrology and Gurbani> >"AIA" <ancient_indian_ astrology>> >Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PM> >> >> >Dear All,> >  I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?> >Love and regards, > >> >Sreenadh > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. 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Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Dear Awasthi ji; You are ABSOLUTELY correct. RegardsKulbir Bains Suresh Awasthi <sureshawasthi87 Sent: Mon, 1 February, 2010 9:32:03 AMRe: Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear Kulbir Ji , Only that is why they choose abhijit muhurat to anand karaj, In evening or other time anand karaj is not valid, We can do all good work in abhijit muhurat all the days in year, Sunday is chosen as it is related with sun & vary strong abhijit muhurat.. if I wrong you can correct me With Regards suresh awasthi--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb > wrote: Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb >Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Astrology and Gurbaniancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, February 1, 2010, 12:47 PM Dear Sreenadh ji, Just ask them a simple question. When did the sikh religon adopted practise of Anand Karaj for solemnisation of marriage ceremony i.e When was the practise of traditional Hindu custom stopped to adopt this new system? and of course WHY and by WHOM? The answer will remove all your doubts. RegardsKulbir Bains Sreenadh OG <sreesog >AIA <ancient_indian_ astrology>Mon, 1 February, 2010 4:30:04 AM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear All, The following statement is from following link: http://www.rudolfhs mit.nl/h- indi2.htm Is that so?============ =During the 15th century Guru Nanak, the prophet of Sikh religion, rejected Vedic astrology by his argument (in Ad Guru Granth, SGPC, Amritsar, pp.12,136): "Units of Indian time, and change of seasons, are related to the motion of our Sun. By God's grace, all days and months are beneficial for human kind". We are proud of our rich heritage but that does not mean we put the clock of Indian education in reverse gear. H.S.VIRK, Department of Physics, Amritsar.============ =Love and regards, Sreenadh--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Sreenadh OG <sreesog (AT) (DOT) .com> wrote: Sreenadh OG <sreesog >Astrology and Gurbani"AIA" <ancient_indian_ astrology>Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:15 PM Dear All, I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more light on this (possibly controversial) topic?Love and regards, Sreenadh The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Dear Sheevani; I am confused about gender so please take Dear as address to a sister. He was born on the day of baisakhi. Now it will be easy for you to find the exact date. Did you tried to find as to Why his birthday is celeberated in November?RegardsKulbir Bains Sheevani <sheevani147 Sent: Mon, 1 February, 2010 9:21:10 AM Re: Astrology and Gurbani Dear Kulbir ji,Namaste,Thank you, I shall definately look into this. So far, I have already come up with 3 different dates but will look further into this. Any information that you may give will also be much appreciated. . There is also some controvesy about his birth being during vaisaki(new moon) or poonarmasi.. (full moon).The dates I have so far are,,Wikipedia - 14th April 1469Info-sikh.com - 7th July 1656Likhari.com - 15th April 1469But, traditionally Guru Nanakji's birthday is celebrated in November.warmest regardsSheevaniancient_indian_ astrology, Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb@ ...> wrote:>> Sheevani Ji,> > Please do some research about birth date of Guru Nanak Dev Ji,> It was changed for political considerations.> Â Regards> Kulbir Bains > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Sheevani <sheevani147@ ...>> ancient_indian_ astrology> Mon, 1 February, 2010 6:35:37 AM> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Astrology and Gurbani> > Â > Dear Bhaskar ji> > Namaste.> > //Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels> of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and> fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules> which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or> such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to> pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work,labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in> Astrology,// /> > I personally belief this might have been a factor ..> > What is important to remember, that during the time of Guru Nanak, there were too many divisions in the society and the Moguls rule through rather brutal inconsitent laws.> > Baba Guru Nanak did not set out to form a new religion, but to bring peace and unity in the community. As the community then consisted of mainly muslims and hindus, he adviced a way of living which brought out the best of both religions and create a more united community.> > Sikhism simplified areas of the Hindu religion which was causing the greatest aggravation, which was which Diety to call God and also aimed to get rid of the caste system.> > Muslims felt obliged to follow their religious teaching to the letter for fear of punishment by God and being destroyed by God etc. for they dont believe in incarnation and feared the soul after death would be tortured etc > > Baba Nanakji, preached that God is always merciful and full of love.. All pains and sufferings were due to the individuals own karma, and some of these could be cleansed with help of good actions and help of Guru etc.> > I feel astrology was one of those divisory factors, which inflicted a lot of pain on indivduals who had weak charts and were treated as unlucky persons, who can be mistreated/condemne d by others etc..> As usual, females who had widowhood showing in their charts etc were treated especially badly by the immediate families and community.> > warmest regards> Sheevani> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> > > > There may also be matters which do not appear clear to the eye. But> > which only the originator or the Head of the particular Sect may be> > knowing the real reason, purpose or purport.> > > > For instance somebody to prove that he is different and to proclaim> > excusive rules for his sect, he may disaasociate himself from the> > commonly followed norms, ideas and prevalent forms of action, knowledge> > and beliefs, of the era and day.> > > > For instance I may tell my followers that "You must start reading a book> > from the back page". Or "do not worship stone statues" Or " Do not eat> > anythng which is produced below the ground" Or " Do not use weapons but> > use your hands to kill when situations demand" etc.etc.> > > > Got my point ?> > > > Another fact may be that from time to time depending on the less levels> > of productivity from the folks due to overdependance on destiny and> > fortunes and God, the Heads, Saints and Leaders may pass certain rules> > which disallow the obedience of the guidance coming from Astrology or> > such forms of Divinisations, and they would like the common folks to> > pursue their ambitions and realise their goals only through, hard work,> > labour and efforts - so they purposely show their disbelief in> > Astrology, though they may be fully knowing inside that Astrology is> > good. Thsi may eb a temporary rule, but since not revoked during the> > Life time of the saint, remains to stay forever and is in time to come,> > considered a Strict Dictum to be followed, though the Rule maker may> > have never wished so.> > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, devisigh> > <devisingh.rajput@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadh JI,> > >> > > I am looking with different eye and not finding any controversial> > below> > > are my thoughts.> > >> > > When we looking through time in going into past> > > situation/environme nt/condition/ intellect/ human it become essential to> > > deny Astrology by saint> > > when such talk is given by saint that tells that something is critical> > > which will be missed from human (human is concern)on accepting> > > astrology, which most of people will loose (not all) and they need to> > > denied the Astrology.> > >> > > Astrology is rather path/tool can be selected/facilitate to reach at> > > same location/truth where human have to reach.> > >> > > It depends on time...i am sure if same saint came now they will> > suggest> > > astrology to many people> > >> > > --Guru is not-essential to reach but essential for this.> > > ------------ ------> > > Regards,> > > Devisingh> > >> > > Sreenadh OG wrote:> > > >> > > > [Attachment( s) <#TopText> from Sreenadh OG included below]> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > I found the following attached document in DocStoc.com. The article> > > > states the Sikh religion and Guru vani DO NOT support astrology and> > > > astrological predication. What is your opinion? Can anyone shed more> > > > light on this (possibly controversial) topic?> > > > Love and regards,> > > > *Sreenadh*> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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