Ramana Maharshi About Free-will And Destiny

[Guest guest]

--- On Tue, 23/3/10, Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote:

 

 

Talk 209.Mr. B. C. Das, the Physics Lecturer, asked about free-will and destiny.

M.: Whose will is it? ‘It is mine’, you may say. You are beyond will and fate. Abide as that and you transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered.Fate is the result of past actions. By association with the wise the bad tendencies are conquered. One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.

I exist now. I am the enjoyer. I enjoy fruits of action. I was in the past and shall be in the future. Who is this ‘I’? Finding this ‘I’ to be pure Consciousness beyond action and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are gained. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there remains nothing more to gain.

So long as there is individuality, one is the enjoyer and doer. But if it is lost, the divine Will prevails and guides the course of events.The individual is perceptible to others who cannot perceive divine force. Restrictions and discipline are for other individuals and not for the liberated.

Free-will is implied in the scriptural injunctions to be good. It implies overcoming fate. It is done by wisdom. The fire of wisdom consumes all actions. Wisdom is acquired by association with the wise, or rather, its mental atmosphere.

Source: Talks With Ramana Maharshi BookMore Over in In verse 19 of Ulladu NarpaduRamana says that the dispute whether fate (vidhi) or free will (mati) prevails is of interest only to those who do not know the (mulam) — the root, base, foundation, origin or source — of both fate and free will (namely the mind, which misuses its free will and experiences whatever fate results therefrom), and that those who have known the truth of this mind have thereby separated themselves from fate and free will and will not hereafter become entangled with them again. In other words,fate and free will appear to exist only so long as our mind appears to exist, but when we scrutinise this mind and thereby know the truth that it does not really exist, fate and free will will also cease to

exist.

-- à°“à°‚ నమో భగవతే à°¶à±à°°à±€ రమణాయ à°ªà±à°°à°¶à°¾à°‚తౠజలసూతà±à°°à°‚ à°ªà±à°°à±‡à°®à±‡ శాశà±à°µà°¤à°®à±

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Fate and Free Will. This debate has been going on ever since Man was created and he was bestowed with brains. He has always thought that he is his own Master. Philosophers and Statesmen have also advocated that the man would make his own destiny and have extolled people to do it. There are many success stories which can vouch that They made their own Destiny and there would also be many stories where people failed miserably and landed in ignomany.

 

I do debate this often when I am free and have some time for myself but have not been able to reach a conclusion though largely I believe that one is guided by his destiny and within that sphere can exercise his freewill. If something is not promised in his birth chart, it is not going to come to him. When he could not use any discretion to choose his place/family of birth, largely his education and level of education and things like that, but it is the "Main" (I) embedded so strongly in a human being that seldom he is inclined to accept matters as it is.

 

This is a vicious circle of life and should be left as it is. I do not know what the real answer could be? Whether it is the free will or the fate which reigns supreme but yes, free will also is there, especially when I have free time, it can be used watching TV, reciting mantras, doing pooja or going for a walk or any other mundane thing. But if one thinks deeply, may be it is also destined alongwith the dasha pattern the one gets in life.

 

There is a story. Daksha Prajapati in his dream saw that he is going to die soon. He goes and tells this to Parvati ji who then accompanies him to Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva expresses his helplessness in the matter and requests them that they should go to Brahma ji. Brahma ji then says, that he is the creator, not destroyer and he cannot alter anyone's destiny so lets all go to Vishnu ji for this issue. Collectively they go to Vishnu ji and he also pleads his helplessness as the portfolio is allotted to Yamaraj. Such an important person so everyone joins Daksha Prajapati and go to Yamaraj and Yamaraj says that it is Maharaj Chitragupta who manages the ledger so lets call him. Chitragupta ji maharaj, came and to the surprise of everyone said, "his death would occur when all Gods would collect together at one place, so now since all Devtas are here, his time has come". This is a story I read in Kalyan long time back. But this is such a beautiful revealing

story that it perhaps says all.

 

best wishes,

 

Manoj

 

 

 

Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 1:51:51 PM Ramana Maharshi About Free-will And Destiny

 

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 23/3/10, Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

Talk 209.Mr. B. C. Das, the Physics Lecturer, asked about free-will and destiny.M.: Whose will is it? ‘It is mine’, you may say. You are beyond will and fate. Abide as that and you transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered.Fate is the result of past actions. By association with the wise the bad tendencies are conquered. One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.I exist now. I am the enjoyer. I enjoy fruits of action. I was in the past and shall be in the future. Who is this ‘I’? Finding this ‘I’ to be pure Consciousness beyond action and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are gained. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there remains nothing more to gain.So long as there is individuality,

one is the enjoyer and doer. But if it is lost, the divine Will prevails and guides the course of events.The individual is perceptible to others who cannot perceive divine force. Restrictions and discipline are for other individuals and not for the liberated.Free-will is implied in the scriptural injunctions to be good. It implies overcoming fate. It is done by wisdom. The fire of wisdom consumes all actions. Wisdom is acquired by association with the wise, or rather, its mental atmosphere.Source: Talks With Ramana Maharshi BookMore Over in In verse 19 of Ulladu NarpaduRamana says that the dispute whether fate (vidhi) or free will (mati) prevails is of interest only to those who do not know the (mulam) — the root, base, foundation, origin or source —

of both fate and free will (namely the mind, which misuses its free will and experiences whatever fate results therefrom), and that those who have known the truth of this mind have thereby separated themselves from fate and free will and will not hereafter become entangled with them again. In other words,fate and free will appear to exist only so long as our mind appears to exist, but when we scrutinise this mind and thereby know the truth that it does not really exist, fate and free will will also cease to exist.-- à°“à°‚ నమో భగవతే à°¶à±à°°à±€ రమణాయ à°ªà±à°°à°¶à°¾à°‚తౠజలసూతà±à°°à°‚ à°ªà±à°°à±‡à°®à±‡ శాశà±à°µà°¤à°®à±

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Nair sahib,Some (may be) related quotes;-The alchemists spent years

in their laboratories, observing the fire that purified the metals. They spent

so much time close to the fire that gradually they gave up the vanities of the

world. They discovered that the purification of the metals had led to a

purification of themselves.

The Alchemist “His heart was never

quiet, even when the boy and the alchemist had fallen into silence. “Why do we

have to listen to our hearts?†the boy asked, when they had made camp that day.

“Because, wherever your heart is, that is where you’ll find your treasure.†“But

my heart is agitated,†the boy said. “It has its dreams, it gets emotional, and

it’s become passionate over a woman of the desert. It asks things of me, and it

keeps me from sleeping many nights, when I’m thinking about her.†“Well, that’s

good. Your heart is alive. Keep listening to what it has to say.â€â€¦.â€My heart is

a traitor,†the boy said to the alchemist when they had paused to rest the

horses. “It doesn’t want me to go on.†“That makes sense,†the alchemist

answered. “Naturally it’s afraid that, in pursuing your dream, you might lose

everything you’ve won.†“Well, then, why should I listen to my heart?†“Because

you will never again be able to keep it quiet. Even if you pretend not to have

heard what it tells you, it will always be there inside you, repeating to you

what you’re thinking about life and about the world. “You mean I should listen,

even if it’s treasonous?†“Treason is a blow that comes unexpectedly. If you

know your heart well, it will never be able to do that to you. Because you’ll know

its dreams and wishes, and will know how to deal with them. You will never be

able to escape from your heart. So it’s better to listen to what it has to say.

That way, you’ll never have to fear an unanticipated blow†(128-129) Maybe God created the

desert so that man could appreciate the date trees, he thought.

The AlchemistThe secret is here in

the present. If you pay attention to the present, you can improve upon it. And,

if you improve on the present, what comes later will also be better. Forget

about the future, and live each day according to the teachings, confident that

God loves his children. Each day, in itself, brings with it an eternity.

The AlchemistEvery human being

should keep alive within them the sacred flame of madness, but should behave as

a normal person.-- RegardsKulbir BainsOn Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 23/3/10, Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote:

 

 

 

Talk 209.Mr. B. C. Das, the Physics Lecturer, asked about free-will and destiny.

M.: Whose will is it? ‘It is mine’, you may say. You are beyond will and fate. Abide as that and you transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered.Fate is the result of past actions. By association with the wise the bad tendencies are conquered. One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.

I exist now. I am the enjoyer. I enjoy fruits of action. I was in the past and shall be in the future. Who is this ‘I’? Finding this ‘I’ to be pure Consciousness beyond action and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are gained. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there remains nothing more to gain.

So long as there is individuality, one is the enjoyer and doer. But if it is lost, the divine Will prevails and guides the course of events.The individual is perceptible to others who cannot perceive divine force. Restrictions and discipline are for other individuals and not for the liberated.

Free-will is implied in the scriptural injunctions to be good. It implies overcoming fate. It is done by wisdom. The fire of wisdom consumes all actions. Wisdom is acquired by association with the wise, or rather, its mental atmosphere.

Source: Talks With Ramana Maharshi BookMore Over in In verse 19 of Ulladu NarpaduRamana says that the dispute whether fate (vidhi) or free will (mati) prevails is of interest only to those who do not know the (mulam) — the root, base, foundation, origin or source — of both fate and free will (namely the mind, which misuses its free will and experiences whatever fate results therefrom), and that those who have known the truth of this mind have thereby separated themselves from fate and free will and will not hereafter become entangled with them again. In other words,fate and free will appear to exist only so long as our mind appears to exist, but when we scrutinise this mind and thereby know the truth that it does not really exist, fate and free will will also cease to

exist.

-- à°“à°‚  నమో  భగవతే  శà±à°°à±€  రమణాయ   à°ªà±à°°à°¶à°¾à°‚తౠ జలసూతà±à°°à°‚ à°ªà±à°°à±‡à°®à±‡ శాశà±à°µà°¤à°®à±  

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear All,The key phrase is:One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective. So the Maharishi is talking about "Spiritual Free Will" that enables us to "Remain Free" inspite of what happens to us. Notice he says nothing about actually "changing" the experiences ..... that IS BOUND by Karma. Regards, -Manoj Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 1:21:51 AM Ramana Maharshi About Free-will And Destiny

 

 

--- On Tue, 23/3/10, Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

Talk 209.Mr. B. C. Das, the Physics Lecturer, asked about free-will and destiny.

M.: Whose will is it? ‘It is mine’, you may say. You are beyond will and fate. Abide as that and you transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered.Fate is the result of past actions. By association with the wise the bad tendencies are conquered. One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.

I exist now. I am the enjoyer. I enjoy fruits of action. I was in the past and shall be in the future. Who is this ‘I’? Finding this ‘I’ to be pure Consciousness beyond action and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are gained. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there remains nothing more to gain.

So long as there is individuality, one is the enjoyer and doer. But if it is lost, the divine Will prevails and guides the course of events.The individual is perceptible to others who cannot perceive divine force. Restrictions and discipline are for other individuals and not for the liberated.

Free-will is implied in the scriptural injunctions to be good. It implies overcoming fate. It is done by wisdom. The fire of wisdom consumes all actions. Wisdom is acquired by association with the wise, or rather, its mental atmosphere.

Source: Talks With Ramana Maharshi BookMore Over in In verse 19 of Ulladu NarpaduRamana says that the dispute whether fate (vidhi) or free will (mati) prevails is of interest only to those who do not know the (mulam) — the root, base, foundation, origin or source — of both fate and free will (namely the mind, which misuses its free will and experiences whatever fate results therefrom), and that those who have known the truth of this mind have thereby separated themselves from fate and free will and will not hereafter become entangled with them again. In other words,fate and free will appear to exist only so long as our mind appears to exist, but when we scrutinise this mind and thereby know the truth that it does not really exist, fate and free will will also cease to

exist.

-- à°“à°‚ నమో భగవతే à°¶à±à°°à±€ రమణాయ à°ªà±à°°à°¶à°¾à°‚తౠజలసూతà±à°°à°‚ à°ªà±à°°à±‡à°®à±‡ శాశà±à°µà°¤à°®à±

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj Ji,Jyotish is applicable in true sense when the astrologer is able to differentiate as to how and what IS BOUND by Karma; and where the scope of free will remains.

Half the native's problems are solved when the CAUSE of hardship faced by him is explained to him.

2nd part remains to guide the native to utilize the part of free will for maximum advantage.

RegardsKulbir Bains.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear All,The key phrase is:One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.

 So the Maharishi is talking about " Spiritual Free Will " that enables us to " Remain Free " inspite of what happens to us. Notice he says nothing about actually " changing " the experiences ..... that IS BOUND by Karma.

 Regards, -Manoj 

Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala

Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 1:21:51 AM

Ramana Maharshi About Free-will And Destiny

 

 

 

--- On Tue, 23/3/10, Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

Talk 209.Mr. B. C. Das, the Physics Lecturer, asked about free-will and destiny.

M.: Whose will is it? ‘It is mine’, you may say. You are beyond will and fate. Abide as that and you transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered.Fate is the result of past actions. By association with the wise the bad tendencies are conquered. One’s experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.

I exist now. I am the enjoyer. I enjoy fruits of action. I was in the past and shall be in the future. Who is this ‘I’? Finding this ‘I’ to be pure Consciousness beyond action and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are gained. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there remains nothing more to gain.

So long as there is individuality, one is the enjoyer and doer. But if it is lost, the divine Will prevails and guides the course of events.The individual is perceptible to others who cannot perceive divine force. Restrictions and discipline are for other individuals and not for the liberated.

Free-will is implied in the scriptural injunctions to be good. It implies overcoming fate. It is done by wisdom. The fire of wisdom consumes all actions. Wisdom is acquired by association with the wise, or rather, its mental atmosphere.

Source: Talks With Ramana Maharshi BookMore Over in In verse 19 of Ulladu NarpaduRamana says that the dispute whether fate (vidhi) or free will (mati) prevails is of interest only to those who do not know the (mulam) — the root, base, foundation, origin or source — of both fate and free will (namely the mind, which misuses its free will and experiences whatever fate results therefrom), and that those who have known the truth of this mind have thereby separated themselves from fate and free will and will not hereafter become entangled with them again. In other words,fate and free will appear to exist only so long as our mind appears to exist, but when we scrutinise this mind and thereby know the truth that it does not really exist, fate and free will will also cease to

exist.

-- à°“à°‚  నమో  భగవతే  శà±à°°à±€  రమణాయ   à°ªà±à°°à°¶à°¾à°‚తౠ జలసూతà±à°°à°‚ à°ªà±à°°à±‡à°®à±‡ శాశà±à°µà°¤à°®à±  

 

 

 

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