(Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology , Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology

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(Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology

Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology

 

By Shyamasundara Das

 

www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com

 

Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following question:

 

"Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic astrological system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in this area?"

 

This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic astrology as well as some questionable and bogus schools.

 

If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava method of worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as well as differences. The similarities exist because the source and purpose of the text are the same. The differences exist because the authors have their own personal slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.

 

PARASARA

 

By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India today is that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets of astrology presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. But this book, composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a digest of the more complex systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas (Astrology, apparently, is not practiced in Satya yuga). We can only imagine how complex these other systems must have been if Parasara Hora is the simplified version for the less intelligent inhabitants of Kali Yuga.

 

I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex even to an experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about planetary periods called mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha based on a 120 year cycle. But this is only one of more than 40(!) different systems of mahadasha that Parasara gives in his BPHS.

 

JAIMINI

 

Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini system as explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple of Parasara. Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly and stark. This is most likely because the original text was written in sutra form, very pithy aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result there have been few commentaries or texts written about the Jaimini system. However if you study Jaimini you will see that it is a subset of Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few methods of Parasara and developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it will seem like an alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things such as ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.

 

TAJIKA

 

I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is basically a cross between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India by the Turks. It is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is somewhat popular in Northern India (which was ravaged by the Muslims) amongst the eclectic astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic tradition.

 

In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text and commentary on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a couple of translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna Tantra and their method of "yearly horoscope" called Varshaphala. This Varshaphala is nothing but the "solar return" that is used in western astrology with a few Vedic twists added. To better understand Tajika system one should study the works of William Lilly (17th century English astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on Solar returns.

 

Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically unheard of in South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully preserved from impurities such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without finding out its antecedents, at least one well known astrologer has introduced Tajika into ISKCON. This is the danger of mimicking what ever Hindus do and assuming it is Vedic. You have to research and dig for the truth.

 

This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into ISKCON as a way to "Strengthen your karmas..." A friend of mine asked the same astrologer about why he prescribed gems. This is what my friend told me.

 

"I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is sure it is bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them."

 

Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept their philosophy also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox populi as our standard for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will get back to gems later. I have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami about Prabhupada and gems, that he said I could share with you. This will be a starting point for a deeper look into the relationship between gems, astrology and remedial measures. So keep posted.

 

We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system of astrology which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a minimal understanding of Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika has deviated from Parasara. As B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika system "...a definite departure from the canons of Parasara..."

 

How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the give away clue is that they advertise "yearly readings." Vedic astrology is also capable of doing yearly readings, or readings for any length of time. But the "yearly reading" is a Tajika specialty. If you are not certain whether the yearly reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how the astrologer bases the reading. If he answers that it is based on the sun returning to the same position as it was at the time of your birth, then that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the western "Solar Return" method.

 

I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like the fact that it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not very effective. Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.

 

(Another thing that some bogus "Vedic" astrologers do, is to use Neptune, Uranus and Pluto.)

 

KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI

 

In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti, has attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti Paddhati. This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with a few twists. First of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari mahadasha as a method for planetary directions. Then on the basis of the rulerships of the nakshatras based on the Vimshottari method he created his system. He also adopted the Placidius house system from the West. This is an uneven house system, and the first house begins from the lagna point.

 

Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious defects such as assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain planets. This rulership only applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others. For example, astrologers in East India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer ashtottari dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are ruled differently and none are assigned to Ketu. Aside from this the KP system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very few books have been written on this system, only the ones by the creator himself. I have all the books and tried to understand them but was not satisfied. I didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my astrology teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came up negative so I dropped it.

 

The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a magazine "Yoga and Arishta." I wouldn't recommend anyone to get entangled in this system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H. Bhanu Swami is partial to this system.

 

KERALA SCHOOL

 

Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is a highly note worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as devoted to astrology as is Kerala. Other parts of India have their great astrologers who are second to none. But it is generally recognized that S. India has much better astrologers than N. India. This is considered to be a result of N. India suffering grievously under the hands of the Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir used to be a great seat of Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim. Libraries where burned wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk would go "Tiger" hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from the Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional learning in N. India had setbacks.

 

Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the North so that Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic astrology is also thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S. India, Kerala has a very high reputation for astrology. It would be difficult to say which locale had the best astrologers, but definitely Kerala would be a top contender.

 

What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality associated with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of course there are very good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology teacher being among the best. The difference is that in Kerala every one is expected to know Prasna, while in other parts of S. India many astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N. India I didn't meet any astrologers who knew prasna.

 

In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala, besides using the classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to a great extent. There utilization is different from what you might expect. I will give you an example.

 

I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology teacher, Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of Kerala) and author of many astrology books in Malayalam. An Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very complex affair. Several of the most learned astrologers are invited to sit together and do Prasna. Since it is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will be at a temple and concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In important prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a second opinion in such important matters. Of course there is no value in getting a second opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must also be pandits. In any case Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was impressed to see that he was almost always made the head astrologer. It improved my confidence in him as a

teacher.

 

These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole day. What goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower because everything gets read. For example, once, as the Prasna was being setup a man moved the ghee lamp 3 times from one place to another before finally setting it down. One astrologer immediately announced that the deity had been in three different locations before its present resting place. When inquiry was made into the history of the temple this was confirmed.

 

In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is performed etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the astrologers took the pan leaves and began to examine the leaves in the order they were given to him. There were 5 leaves, so this represented the first 5 houses of the prasna kundali (houses will have different meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on the size and quality of each leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each house. Amazingly the temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind boggling. This kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something like this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how Krsna is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things, which have non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of all the prasnas I attended, a practice that I continue today. This is something I would recommend to any astrologer, student or

professional.

 

Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara (Kerala) is that they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be the son of Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is determined according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule used by Malabar astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from Sunday onward, Mandi will correspond to the degree rising at the end of 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2 ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun rises at 6:00 AM or in other words provided that the length of day and night are equal. If unequal, then a proportional value must be taken.

 

During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the rising degree at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis respectively after sunset from Sunday onwards. This rule applies for a night of 12 hours duration. Alterations are made for proportional values as in the case of days.(A ghati = 24 minutes, 1 day = 60 ghatis.)

 

You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the Sun, Moon or Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some point in the zodiac determined by a particular time of day or night be given the dignity of a planet?

 

The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses "planets." In Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which implies a source of power and ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The word for planet is loka; a different entity altogether. This is why Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th canto, to take shelter of "Krsna graha." Not that he thought that Krsna is a "planet," but that Krsna is the Supreme source of power, etc.

 

Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its calculations. Some are esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and Upa-grahas like Dhuma, Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by Parasara). Others like the Lagna, Rahu and Ketu we don't even question, but they are definitely non-physical, but none the less powerful grahas. Rahu and Ketu are points that lie on the line of intersection of the planes of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of the Eastern horizon at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so important that the Greeks called it the "horoscopus" from which we get horoscope. Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet it is not a physical planet.

 

The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there chart readings whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are practically the only astrologers in India who do this. When I have to do special Prasnas involving abhicara (black magic) I also integrate Mandi into the reading, it can't be done with out it. (Stay tune for an upcoming special report about a case of Vedic Astrology and Black Magic

 

in the Far North.)

 

The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the astrologers speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With Krsnan Potti it was a little easier because he new Pidgin English, but most of our communication about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a Sanskrit Pandit but as long as we were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I was at home. Another difficulty is that prasna as practiced in Kerala is tailor fit to the culture and society of the land. It would be diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick in a country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles on the altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be adapted to each different country.

 

NADI GRANTHAS

 

Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started all of this, the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu Samhita as mentioned in Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is that the Brghu Samhita (BS) is only one of a whole genre of astrological literature called Nadi Granthas. In Sanskrit the word Nadi means river, blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and the subtle meridians that go through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna Nadis that are mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga Sastras and Ayurveda mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In any case the idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it water, blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi Granthas, nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In the above case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think that Nadi refers to a measure of time.)

 

The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas, for the devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the Saptarishis who became prajapatis. They created devas, humans, asuras, etc. as well as other Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they know past, present and future. And they have transmitted their knowledge and guidance to us via these Nadi Granthas.

 

[A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of the subject, is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with predictions given. You go to the reader, he calculates your chart and then finds a matching one in his collection and reads out the predictions. ]

 

Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored it. The format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the Rishi and his disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the dialog is between Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in S. India Brghu Samhita is called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An exception to this is the Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of the Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya, Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a horoscope and discuss it, sometimes they argue over the outcome (especially the last two rishis) at which time they submit to Parvati as the referee.

 

There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the two just mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka Nadi(supposedly by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi, Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi etc. I have even heard of a Ravana Nadi.

 

BRGHU SAMHITA

 

Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was mortified that he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a prayaschitta he created the BS. In the readings he always advises the person, I am told by authorities, that in order to overcome his difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to Visnu such as the cow.

 

Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that "before you make the living entities I will make their horoscopes." I have heard from authorities that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000 charts. Well, you may ask, this certainly falls way short of the total population of India what to speak of the planet. Brghu was very intelligent, he only created the charts of those who would consult him not those who would not. So the total number of charts need not approach the total number of people. Of these charts many have been destroyed by invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of India. It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is doubtful that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to have the "real" Brghu Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur, Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my astrology teacher in Bangalore had a portion of the Brghu Samhita

which he used extensively.

 

METHOD OF CALCULATION

 

The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By studying them one can see the different sources that the Parasara system is derived from. The difference in systems can be radical. For example the Kala Chandra Nadi and Druva Nadi and few others use what is known as the Nadi amsa. This is a very minute division of each sign of the zodiac. Those of you who are a little familiar with astrology have heard of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the sign is divided into 9, 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given Shodasvargas or 16 different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But in Nadi Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is assigned a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus each division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute considering that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4 minutes of time. Thus 1 amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1

vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and all the planets are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.

 

By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between Brghu and Siva's vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and predictions are based totally on transits. In some Nadis not only are planets considered but certain lines on the palm or bodily features are taken into account in order to determine the correct chart to read. In some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in full, in others little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.

 

NOT ALWAYS CORRECT

 

The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high reputation for uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to their reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be incompetent. They may not have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good to begin with, in other words the author of the Nadi wasn't so competent. There is the language barrier. And the Nadi readers are cheaters.

 

Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially

 

the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the Astrological Journals. The complaint is often made that while a particular Nadi may be very accurate about the past and present it fails miserably for the future. My astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan Potti, told me that he had visited many Nadi readers in his life time but found most unsatisfactory when it came to predicting the future. He told me that the best one he had come across was a Vasista Nadi in Tanjore, which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the future.

 

I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis: Brghu Samhita, Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology teacher in Bangalore to check if I was a worthy student. The reading was remarkably accurate giving dates for operations, accidents, progress in life etc. And so far the predictions have come true also. The Kala Chandra Nadi was also interesting but not quite as accurate as the Brghu reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was accurate in some places and confirmed what other readings had said, it was not so accurate about the future. Of the three one said that I would definitely marry, one said that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could go either way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few years before I said who was correct.

 

It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also important. The man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate astrologer in his own right, the Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi least qualified having just inherited it from his deceased father. (These nadis are kept in the families for generations. )

 

I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a reading from him way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old palm leaf manuscripts which had been in their family for over 800 years they said. But still I was not so thrilled with the reading. I have had much better readings from ordinary astrologers. It is a mistake to think that Nadi readings are always better than the reading of a good astrologer.

 

Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit between your chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this I mean the charts in his possession may not be exactly the same as yours. Perhaps one planet is different in sign or navamsa. And the reading may also go off if the reader is not so good as an astrologer himself, or he may be trying to flatter you.

 

A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is improperly translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate Nadi the lipi (script) that is used is often some archaic variety that only trained persons can read. For example Granta lipi is a specially designed set of Tamil letters used to render Sanskrit. (Just as we use Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So first the Reader translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other language, into the local language. That is because most don't know English. Then some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular jargon of the Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the Reader says into English. As you can see there are plenty of places where mistakes can be made even if the Reader is honest and has in his possession a real Nadi. But the biggest cause of bad readings is cheating.

 

CHEATING

 

Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some fame or value, in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi Granthas and out and out cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the cheating is done but I will only mention a few here.

 

Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in order to find your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have, what is your mother's name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also examine your palm for special lines or look for marks on your body. The Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow) will measure your shadow, and use this as a reference! Anyway using this information they try to locate your actual chart.

 

What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you give them either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure that they have enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart, after sometime they come back saying they can't find it now, please come back tomorrow. When you come back the next day they again look for your chart and after a while they announce that they have found it. When they begin to read your chart you are amazed how so many details of your life are contained in the reading. Convinced about what they have said so far you ask them to continue and they go on reading about your future. Perhaps it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming good fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna or buy some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.

 

What is done is that they take the information that you have given to them and weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be creative, suppose your mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible if they were to actually give out that your mothers name is Rose. How could that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book? What they will do is say that your mother's name is Puspa because she is named after a flower. This is believable. Some really creative con artists have been known (when a lot of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make calls to your area to get even more information and weave it into the story they are creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said they put in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging chemicals to make the paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is. Many people are fooled this way.

 

Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi readings, in particular the Bhrgu Samhita.

 

BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE

 

My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had several years back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu Sastris there. He and his party visited several readers. Some were honest, they just admitted that they didn't have his chart available.

 

Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while

 

they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would

 

come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.

 

But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came back another day, and the postman delivered another letter from Indira Gandhi. On inquiry they found out that the postman was hired to deliver fake letters from Indira Gandhi whenever "marks" were with the astrologer in order to convince the "marks" how good he was.

 

On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house talking to the astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call of nature, so he got up and went towards the back of the house. There he saw a man apply aging chemicals to a new horoscope thus catching him in the act of forging a Brghu reading.

 

GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE

 

Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an experience with the Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu visited a well known Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader. Woman astrologers are quite rare in India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader is even rarer. There is probably only one such reader. Gauranga Prabhu told me that he couldn't remember her name but he was told by some x-devotees (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same lady Bhrgu reader had visited the USA in recent years.

 

Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years and met many astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was disgusted by his experience with her. He first of all complained that they make a big show on the first day and asked him all kinds of questions about his family and life in general. Then they told him to come back the next day for his reading because it would take some time to find his chart.

 

In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would be impressing him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming to see them, that his wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's name with an 'R', etc. All stuff that Gauranga had told them the day before. (They could figure out the day by themselves.) The rest of the reading (which he said was unimpressive) was translated by the woman's son, written down and given to Gauranga. That was over 5 years ago. In that length of time he has looked over the predictions and not seen any come to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in sometime and would check again.

 

He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would never consult with them again. He said that he has had much more insightful readings from other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.

 

He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked but perhaps that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and is not experienced in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually got a good reading. Some one would have to check with Drew to find out why he thought it was so good.

 

Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more information on his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.

 

MAYAVADIS

 

Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely are mayavadis. I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in India, an experienced devotee told me something I will never forget. "If you scratch an Indian long enough they will come up mayavadi." It is generally true especially for astrologers. You have to be very careful about what they say and how to take their advice. Just imagine how I felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would attain Sayujya Mukti. He thought he was telling me the best thing that a spiritual aspirant could attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and my plain disgust at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a devotee.

 

Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the readings of even the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate, it would be foolish to make a very important decision based on what they say without getting a second opinion.

 

An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for years and the predictions have always come true then you are probably safe to go ahead. But even with the same reader another new person could not have the same confidence because the Nadi may not work for them as well if at all.

 

ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?

 

I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one devotee not to build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be correct, but how do we know? How much experience with that Sastri's predictions did the devotee have? My understanding was that it was the first time that the devotee had ever consulted that BS. It is conceivable that the Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have been wrong for the reasons that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it would have been advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been done to see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to offset difficulties.

 

It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against the misuse of astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an interesting passage that sheds light on the present situation of Bhrgu Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.

 

" Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers. Srila Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a letter to Devamayi dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding astrology, you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers- -strictly avoid. Don't even see them. What is the use of seeing them?"...

 

....I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the letter above. The history is that certain devotees were going to karmi astrologers and these astrologers by moon transits were telling the devotees when they should go out on sankirtana and when they should not. The net result was that they were putting the devotees completely on the mental platform. So she wrote Srila Prabhupada to see if he would agree with this practice as she thought it was a deviation to his instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an astrologer herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was wrong and Srila Prabhupada concurred".

 

When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very careful about getting advice from persons whose spiritual antecedents and loyalties are unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada or the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others I doubt.)

 

Remember, as I like to say; "Astrology is perfect; astrologers are not." In such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila Prabhupada, who I know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer of unknown spiritual loyalties.

 

At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the reasons that the powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of astrology in ISKCON. After this debacle who can blame them for casting a doubtful eye on astrologers. This is why I have been pushing for some sort of certification program to protect the devotees. In my recommendations for the qualifications of an astrologer I made several points, one of them being:

 

"5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be detrimental to the spiritual life of his client."

 

It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer discouraged a devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to spiritual guidelines given by our Guru Maharaja and should never have been allowed to happen. Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to ignore the advice of these two astrologers and stick tightly to Srila Prabhupada's directions.

 

I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other astrologers.

 

INSTANT KARMA

 

I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate Nadi Grantas may misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was touring all over the USA giving readings and charging a lot of money. One day he fell dead as a door nail from a massive heart attack, he was only about 32 years old. The thought amongst astrologers is that he suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble purposes.

 

In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had anyone in ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu

 

readings?

 

Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from Gujarat who was raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have personally met him, he promised to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but never did so. He kept giving excuses for not doing it. Once he even said that he did it but it was not the right time to read it etc. He seemed to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and that somehow this might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It seemed very strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever giving excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case after about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally gave up. So I can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.

 

The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings and is part of ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi Kanta Jain. Subanjaya Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an accomplished astrologer. However because of his heavy work load and delicate health I doubt that he or anyone in his family would do a full Bhrgu reading for anyone. I now realize that I was fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading that I did from his father.

 

 

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

Sunil ji, thank you for sharing this article. I believe that when someone very

deeply associates with a religious organization, his/her views don't remain

completely unbiased as is required to be a good jyotish. For example, it is very

much possible that someone may not be required to build temples or invest money

in religious institutions and by doing so, he/she may be depriving his/her

family the necessities of life (just for example). However, if someone is biased

by being part of a religious organization he/she according to Shyamsundar Dasa

should advice otherwise to the client. Such an advice is a very unfair. Anyway,

the astrologer we go to is also decided based on our karma and that is why in a

prasna chart the jyotishi sits in the 12th house of the prasna chart.

 

 

, Sunil Nair

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

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(Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology

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> Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology

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> By Shyamasundara Das

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> www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com

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> Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following question:

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> " Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic astrological

system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in this area? "

>

>

>

> This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic astrology as well as

some questionable and bogus schools.

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>

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> If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava method of

worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as well as

differences. The similarities exist because the source and purpose of the text

are the same. The differences exist because the authors have their own personal

slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.

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>

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> PARASARA

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> By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India today is

that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets of astrology

presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. But this book,

composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a digest of the more complex

systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas (Astrology, apparently, is not

practiced in Satya yuga). We can only imagine how complex these other systems

must have been if Parasara Hora is the simplified version for the less

intelligent inhabitants of Kali Yuga.

>

>

>

> I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex even to an

experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about planetary periods called

mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha based on a 120 year cycle. But

this is only one of more than 40(!) different systems of mahadasha that

Parasara gives in his BPHS.

>

>

>

> JAIMINI

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>

>

> Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini system as

explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple of Parasara.

Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly and stark. This is

most likely because the original text was written in sutra form, very pithy

aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result there have been few commentaries

or texts written about the Jaimini system. However if you study Jaimini you

will see that it is a subset of Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few

methods of Parasara and developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it

will seem like an alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things

such as ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.

>

>

>

> TAJIKA

>

>

>

> I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is basically a cross

between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India by the Turks. It

is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is somewhat popular in

Northern India (which was ravaged by the Muslims) amongst the eclectic

astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic tradition.

>

>

>

> In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text and commentary

on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a couple of

translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna Tantra and their

method of " yearly horoscope " called Varshaphala. This Varshaphala is nothing

but the " solar return " that is used in western astrology with a few Vedic twists

added. To better understand Tajika system one should study the works of William

Lilly (17th century English astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on

Solar returns.

>

>

>

> Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically unheard of in

South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully preserved from impurities

such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without finding out its antecedents, at

least one well known astrologer has introduced Tajika into ISKCON. This is the

danger of mimicking what ever Hindus do and assuming it is Vedic. You have to

research and dig for the truth.

>

>

>

> This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into ISKCON as a

way to " Strengthen your karmas... " A friend of mine asked the same astrologer

about why he prescribed gems. This is what my friend told me.

>

>

>

> " I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is sure it is

bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them. "

>

>

>

> Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept their philosophy

also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox populi as our standard

for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will get back to gems later. I

have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami about Prabhupada and gems, that he

said I could share with you. This will be a starting point for a deeper look

into the relationship between gems, astrology and remedial measures. So keep

posted.

>

>

>

> We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system of astrology

which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a minimal understanding of

Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika has deviated from Parasara. As

B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika system " ...a definite departure from the

canons of Parasara... "

>

>

>

> How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the give away clue

is that they advertise " yearly readings. " Vedic astrology is also capable of

doing yearly readings, or readings for any length of time. But the " yearly

reading " is a Tajika specialty. If you are not certain whether the yearly

reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how the astrologer bases the reading. If he

answers that it is based on the sun returning to the same position as it was at

the time of your birth, then that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the

western " Solar Return " method.

>

>

>

> I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like the fact that

it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not very effective.

Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.

>

>

>

> (Another thing that some bogus " Vedic " astrologers do, is to use Neptune,

Uranus and Pluto.)

>

>

>

> KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI

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>

>

> In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti, has

attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti Paddhati.

This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with a few twists. First

of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari mahadasha as a method for

planetary directions. Then on the basis of the rulerships of the nakshatras

based on the Vimshottari method he created his system. He also adopted the

Placidius house system from the West. This is an uneven house system, and the

first house begins from the lagna point.

>

>

>

> Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious defects such as

assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain planets. This rulership only

applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others. For example, astrologers in East

India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer ashtottari dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In

ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are ruled differently and none are assigned to

Ketu. Aside from this the KP system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very

few books have been written on this system, only the ones by the creator

himself. I have all the books and tried to understand them but was not

satisfied. I didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my

astrology teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came up

negative so I dropped it.

>

>

>

> The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a magazine

" Yoga and Arishta. " I wouldn't recommend anyone to get entangled in this

system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H. Bhanu Swami is partial to this

system.

>

>

>

> KERALA SCHOOL

>

>

>

> Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is a highly note

worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as devoted to astrology as is

Kerala. Other parts of India have their great astrologers who are second to

none. But it is generally recognized that S. India has much better astrologers

than N. India. This is considered to be a result of N. India suffering

grievously under the hands of the Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir

used to be a great seat of Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim.

Libraries where burned wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk

would go " Tiger " hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from

the Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional learning in

N. India had setbacks.

>

>

>

> Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the North so that

Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic astrology is also

thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S. India, Kerala has a very high

reputation for astrology. It would be difficult to say which locale had the best

astrologers, but definitely Kerala would be a top contender.

>

>

>

> What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality associated

with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of course there are very

good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology teacher being among the

best. The difference is that in Kerala every one is expected to know Prasna,

while in other parts of S. India many astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N.

India I didn't meet any astrologers who knew prasna.

>

>

>

> In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala, besides using the

classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to a great extent. There

utilization is different from what you might expect. I will give you an

example.

>

>

>

> I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology teacher,

Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of Kerala) and author

of many astrology books in Malayalam. An Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very

complex affair. Several of the most learned astrologers are invited to sit

together and do Prasna. Since it is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will

be at a temple and concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In

important prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the

possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a second opinion

in such important matters. Of course there is no value in getting a second

opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must also be pandits. In any case

Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was

impressed to see that he was almost always made the head astrologer. It

improved my confidence in him as a

> teacher.

>

>

>

> These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole day. What

goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower because everything gets

read. For example, once, as the Prasna was being setup a man moved the ghee

lamp 3 times from one place to another before finally setting it down. One

astrologer immediately announced that the deity had been in three different

locations before its present resting place. When inquiry was made into the

history of the temple this was confirmed.

>

>

>

> In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is performed

etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the astrologers took the pan

leaves and began to examine the leaves in the order they were given to him.

There were 5 leaves, so this represented the first 5 houses of the prasna

kundali (houses will have different meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on

the size and quality of each leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each

house. Amazingly the temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind

boggling. This kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something

like this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how Krsna

is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things, which have

non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of all the prasnas I

attended, a practice that I continue today. This is something I would recommend

to any astrologer, student or

> professional.

>

>

>

> Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara (Kerala) is that

they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be the son of

Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is determined

according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule used by Malabar

astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from Sunday onward, Mandi

will correspond to the degree rising at the end of 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2

ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun rises at 6:00 AM or in other words

provided that the length of day and night are equal. If unequal, then a

proportional value must be taken.

>

>

>

> During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the rising degree

at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis respectively after sunset

from Sunday onwards. This rule applies for a night of 12 hours duration.

Alterations are made for proportional values as in the case of days.(A ghati =

24 minutes, 1 day = 60 ghatis.)

>

>

>

> You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the Sun, Moon or

Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some point in the zodiac

determined by a particular time of day or night be given the dignity of a

planet?

>

>

>

> The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses " planets. " In

Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which implies a source of power and

ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The word for planet is loka; a

different entity altogether. This is why Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th

canto, to take shelter of " Krsna graha. " Not that he thought that Krsna is a

" planet, " but that Krsna is the Supreme source of power, etc.

>

>

>

> Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its calculations. Some are

esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and Upa-grahas like Dhuma,

Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by Parasara). Others like the Lagna, Rahu and

Ketu we don't even question, but they are definitely non-physical, but none the

less powerful grahas. Rahu and Ketu are points that lie on the line of

intersection of the planes of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of

the Eastern horizon at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so

important that the Greeks called it the " horoscopus " from which we get

horoscope. Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet it

is not a physical planet.

>

>

>

> The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there chart readings

whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are practically the only

astrologers in India who do this. When I have to do special Prasnas involving

abhicara (black magic) I also integrate Mandi into the reading, it can't be

done with out it. (Stay tune for an upcoming special report about a case of

Vedic Astrology and Black Magic

>

>

>

> in the Far North.)

>

>

>

> The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the astrologers

speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With Krsnan Potti it was a

little easier because he new Pidgin English, but most of our communication

about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a Sanskrit Pandit but as long as we

were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I was at home. Another difficulty is that

prasna as practiced in Kerala is tailor fit to the culture and society of the

land. It would be diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick

in a country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles on the

altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be adapted to each

different country.

>

>

>

> NADI GRANTHAS

>

>

>

> Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started all of this,

the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu Samhita as mentioned in

Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is that the Brghu Samhita (BS) is

only one of a whole genre of astrological literature called Nadi Granthas. In

Sanskrit the word Nadi means river, blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and

the subtle meridians that go through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and

Sushumna Nadis that are mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga

Sastras and Ayurveda mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In

any case the idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it

water, blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi Granthas,

nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In the above

case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think that Nadi refers to a

measure of time.)

>

>

>

> The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas, for the

devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the Saptarishis who

became prajapatis. They created devas, humans, asuras, etc. as well as other

Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they

know past, present and future. And they have transmitted their knowledge and

guidance to us via these Nadi Granthas.

>

>

>

> [A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of the subject,

is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with predictions given. You go

to the reader, he calculates your chart and then finds a matching one in his

collection and reads out the predictions. ]

>

>

>

> Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored it. The

format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the Rishi and his

disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the dialog is between

Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in S. India Brghu Samhita is

called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An exception to this is the

Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of the Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya,

Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a

horoscope and discuss it, sometimes they argue over the outcome (especially the

last two rishis) at which time they submit to Parvati as the referee.

>

>

>

> There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the two just

mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka Nadi(supposedly

by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi, Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi

etc. I have even heard of a Ravana Nadi.

>

>

>

> BRGHU SAMHITA

>

>

>

> Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was mortified that

he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a prayaschitta he created the BS.

In the readings he always advises the person, I am told by authorities, that in

order to overcome his difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to

Visnu such as the cow.

>

>

>

> Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that " before you make

the living entities I will make their horoscopes. " I have heard from authorities

that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000 charts. Well, you may ask, this

certainly falls way short of the total population of India what to speak of the

planet. Brghu was very intelligent, he only created the charts of those who

would consult him not those who would not. So the total number of charts need

not approach the total number of people. Of these charts many have been

destroyed by invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of

India. It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is doubtful

that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to have the " real " Brghu

Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur,

Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my astrology teacher in Bangalore had a

portion of the Brghu Samhita

> which he used extensively.

>

>

>

> METHOD OF CALCULATION

>

>

>

> The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By studying them

one can see the different sources that the Parasara system is derived from. The

difference in systems can be radical. For example the Kala Chandra Nadi and

Druva Nadi and few others use what is known as the Nadi amsa. This is a very

minute division of each sign of the zodiac. Those of you who are a little

familiar with astrology have heard of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the

sign is divided into 9, 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given

Shodasvargas or 16 different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But

in Nadi Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is assigned

a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus each

division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute considering

that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4 minutes of time. Thus 1

amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1

> vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and all the planets

are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.

>

>

>

> By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between Brghu and Siva's

vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and predictions are based totally

on transits. In some Nadis not only are planets considered but certain lines on

the palm or bodily features are taken into account in order to determine the

correct chart to read. In some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in

full, in others little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.

>

>

>

> NOT ALWAYS CORRECT

>

>

>

> The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high reputation for

uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to their

reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be incompetent. They may not

have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good to begin with, in other

words the author of the Nadi wasn't so competent. There is the language barrier.

And the Nadi readers are cheaters.

>

>

>

> Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially

>

>

>

> the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the Astrological

Journals. The complaint is often made that while a particular Nadi may be very

accurate about the past and present it fails miserably for the future. My

astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan Potti, told me that he had visited many Nadi

readers in his life time but found most unsatisfactory when it came to

predicting the future. He told me that the best one he had come across was a

Vasista Nadi in Tanjore, which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the

future.

>

>

>

> I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis: Brghu Samhita,

Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology teacher in Bangalore

to check if I was a worthy student. The reading was remarkably accurate giving

dates for operations, accidents, progress in life etc. And so far the

predictions have come true also. The Kala Chandra Nadi was also interesting but

not quite as accurate as the Brghu reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was

accurate in some places and confirmed what other readings had said, it was not

so accurate about the future. Of the three one said that I would definitely

marry, one said that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could

go either way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few

years before I said who was correct.

>

>

>

> It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also important. The

man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate astrologer in his own right, the

Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi least qualified having just

inherited it from his deceased father. (These nadis are kept in the families for

generations. )

>

>

>

> I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a reading from him

way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old palm leaf manuscripts

which had been in their family for over 800 years they said. But still I was not

so thrilled with the reading. I have had much better readings from ordinary

astrologers. It is a mistake to think that Nadi readings are always better than

the reading of a good astrologer.

>

>

>

> Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit between your

chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this I mean the charts in his

possession may not be exactly the same as yours. Perhaps one planet is different

in sign or navamsa. And the reading may also go off if the reader is not so good

as an astrologer himself, or he may be trying to flatter you.

>

>

>

> A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is improperly

translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate Nadi the lipi (script)

that is used is often some archaic variety that only trained persons can read.

For example Granta lipi is a specially designed set of Tamil letters used to

render Sanskrit. (Just as we use Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So

first the Reader translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other

language, into the local language. That is because most don't know English. Then

some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular jargon of the

Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the Reader says into

English. As you can see there are plenty of places where mistakes can be made

even if the Reader is honest and has in his possession a real Nadi. But the

biggest cause of bad readings is cheating.

>

>

>

> CHEATING

>

>

>

> Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some fame or value,

in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi Granthas and out and out

cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the cheating is done but I will

only mention a few here.

>

>

>

> Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in order to find

your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have, what is your mother's

name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also examine your palm for

special lines or look for marks on your body. The Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow)

will measure your shadow, and use this as a reference! Anyway using this

information they try to locate your actual chart.

>

>

>

> What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you give them

either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure that they have

enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart, after sometime they come

back saying they can't find it now, please come back tomorrow. When you come

back the next day they again look for your chart and after a while they announce

that they have found it. When they begin to read your chart you are amazed how

so many details of your life are contained in the reading. Convinced about what

they have said so far you ask them to continue and they go on reading about your

future. Perhaps it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming

good fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna or buy

some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.

>

>

>

> What is done is that they take the information that you have given to them and

weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be creative, suppose your

mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible if they were to actually give out

that your mothers name is Rose. How could that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book?

What they will do is say that your mother's name is Puspa because she is named

after a flower. This is believable. Some really creative con artists have been

known (when a lot of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make

calls to your area to get even more information and weave it into the story they

are creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said they put

in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging chemicals to make the

paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is. Many people are fooled

this way.

>

>

>

> Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi readings, in

particular the Bhrgu Samhita.

>

>

>

> BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE

>

>

>

> My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had several years

back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu Sastris there. He and his

party visited several readers. Some were honest, they just admitted that they

didn't have his chart available.

>

>

>

> Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while

>

>

>

> they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would

>

>

>

> come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.

>

>

>

> But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came back another day,

and the postman delivered another letter from Indira Gandhi. On inquiry they

found out that the postman was hired to deliver fake letters from Indira Gandhi

whenever " marks " were with the astrologer in order to convince the " marks " how

good he was.

>

>

>

> On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house talking to the

astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call of nature, so he got up and

went towards the back of the house. There he saw a man apply aging chemicals to

a new horoscope thus catching him in the act of forging a Brghu reading.

>

>

>

> GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE

>

>

>

> Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an experience with the

Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu visited a well known

Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader. Woman astrologers are quite rare in

India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader is even rarer. There is probably only one

such reader. Gauranga Prabhu told me that he couldn't remember her name but he

was told by some x-devotees (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same

lady Bhrgu reader had visited the USA in recent years.

>

>

>

> Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years and met many

astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was disgusted by his

experience with her. He first of all complained that they make a big show on the

first day and asked him all kinds of questions about his family and life in

general. Then they told him to come back the next day for his reading because it

would take some time to find his chart.

>

>

>

> In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would be impressing

him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming to see them, that his

wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's name with an 'R', etc. All stuff

that Gauranga had told them the day before. (They could figure out the day by

themselves.) The rest of the reading (which he said was unimpressive) was

translated by the woman's son, written down and given to Gauranga. That was

over 5 years ago. In that length of time he has looked over the predictions and

not seen any come to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in

sometime and would check again.

>

>

>

> He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would never consult

with them again. He said that he has had much more insightful readings from

other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.

>

>

>

> He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked but perhaps

that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and is not experienced

in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually got a good reading. Some one

would have to check with Drew to find out why he thought it was so good.

>

>

>

> Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more information on

his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.

>

>

>

> MAYAVADIS

>

>

>

> Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely are mayavadis.

I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in India, an experienced

devotee told me something I will never forget. " If you scratch an Indian long

enough they will come up mayavadi. " It is generally true especially for

astrologers. You have to be very careful about what they say and how to take

their advice. Just imagine how I felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would

attain Sayujya Mukti. He thought he was telling me the best thing that a

spiritual aspirant could attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and

my plain disgust at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a

devotee.

>

>

>

> Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the readings of even

the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate, it would be foolish to make

a very important decision based on what they say without getting a second

opinion.

>

>

>

> An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for years and the

predictions have always come true then you are probably safe to go ahead. But

even with the same reader another new person could not have the same confidence

because the Nadi may not work for them as well if at all.

>

>

>

> ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?

>

>

>

> I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one devotee not to

build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be correct, but how do we know?

How much experience with that Sastri's predictions did the devotee have? My

understanding was that it was the first time that the devotee had ever consulted

that BS. It is conceivable that the Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have

been wrong for the reasons that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it

would have been advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been

done to see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to offset

difficulties.

>

>

>

> It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against the misuse of

astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an interesting passage that

sheds light on the present situation of Bhrgu Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.

>

>

>

> " Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers. Srila

Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a letter to Devamayi

dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding astrology, you should not listen to

any of these so-called astrologers- -strictly avoid. Don't even see them. What

is the use of seeing them? " ...

>

>

>

> ...I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the letter above. The

history is that certain devotees were going to karmi astrologers and these

astrologers by moon transits were telling the devotees when they should go out

on sankirtana and when they should not. The net result was that they were

putting the devotees completely on the mental platform. So she wrote Srila

Prabhupada to see if he would agree with this practice as she thought it was a

deviation to his instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an

astrologer herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was

wrong and Srila Prabhupada concurred " .

>

>

>

> When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very careful about

getting advice from persons whose spiritual antecedents and loyalties are

unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada or the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no

problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others I doubt.)

>

>

>

> Remember, as I like to say; " Astrology is perfect; astrologers are not. " In

such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila Prabhupada, who I

know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer of unknown spiritual

loyalties.

>

>

>

> At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the reasons that the

powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of astrology in ISKCON.

After this debacle who can blame them for casting a doubtful eye on astrologers.

This is why I have been pushing for some sort of certification program to

protect the devotees. In my recommendations for the qualifications of an

astrologer I made several points, one of them being:

>

>

>

> " 5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be detrimental to the

spiritual life of his client. "

>

>

>

> It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer discouraged a

devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to spiritual guidelines

given by our Guru Maharaja and should never have been allowed to happen.

Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to ignore the advice of these two

astrologers and stick tightly to Srila Prabhupada's directions.

>

>

>

> I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other astrologers.

>

>

>

> INSTANT KARMA

>

>

>

> I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate Nadi Grantas may

misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was touring all over the USA

giving readings and charging a lot of money. One day he fell dead as a door nail

from a massive heart attack, he was only about 32 years old. The thought amongst

astrologers is that he suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble

purposes.

>

>

>

> In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had anyone in

ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu

>

>

>

> readings?

>

>

>

> Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from Gujarat who was

raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have personally met him, he promised

to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but never did so. He kept giving excuses for

not doing it. Once he even said that he did it but it was not the right time to

read it etc. He seemed to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and

that somehow this might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It

seemed very strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever

giving excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case after

about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally gave up. So I

can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.

>

>

>

> The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings and is part of

ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi Kanta Jain. Subanjaya

Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an accomplished astrologer. However

because of his heavy work load and delicate health I doubt that he or anyone in

his family would do a full Bhrgu reading for anyone. I now realize that I was

fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading that I did from his father.

>

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The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in./

>

[Guest guest]

Dear satyabhama JI

 

sure ,here i agree with u ,one gets what he deserves

even if it is astrologer or anything .

 

I noticed this syamsuder dasa ever since i know he was sisya of Brahmashri Krishnan poti and i closly followed his many of writings too .so when i find such a post/messge just reposted in grp for others to see and judge .Otherwise i dont hav much inclination for his religious sentiments other than astro-writing .Even i dont agree what he wrote in post abt KP padhati ,in defence of his opinion he was saying that there is diffrnt dasa systems other than vimshottary ( as in KP they use star Lords etc )and that is too shallow argumnt .As KP uses Vimshottary dasa Only .

Recently i find one gentle man rectified a child chart around 55 minits backward ,as birth time not supporting some theories in the KP principles ,such Ppl ( i dont know why KP got such disciples ) r realy destroying KP system s tho i dont know much abt it .

 

Even with Normal astrological rules such a disease for kid is viscible and this man mov birth time back to such a large time window ,that too without asking anything abt the details ( i mean how sure is Birth time etc )

 

in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??

 

just a brain teaser

 

rgrds sunil nair , "Satya" <satyabhama_gupta_1980 wrote:>> Sunil ji, thank you for sharing this article. I believe that when someone very deeply associates with a religious organization, his/her views don't remain completely unbiased as is required to be a good jyotish. For example, it is very much possible that someone may not be required to build temples or invest money in religious institutions and by doing so, he/she may be depriving his/her family the necessities of life (just for example). However, if someone is biased by being part of a religious organization he/she according to Shyamsundar Dasa should advice otherwise to the client. Such an advice is a very unfair. Anyway, the astrologer we go to is also decided based on our karma and that is why in a prasna chart the jyotishi sits in the 12th house of the prasna chart.> > > , Sunil Nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology> > > > > > Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology> > > > > > > > By Shyamasundara Das> > > > > > > > www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com> > > > > > > > Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following question:> > > > > > > > "Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic astrological system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in this area?"> > > > > > > > This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic astrology as well as some questionable and bogus schools.> > > > > > > > If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava method of worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as well as differences. The similarities exist because the source and purpose of the text are the same. The differences exist because the authors have their own personal slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.> > > > > > > > PARASARA> > > > > > > > By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India today is that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets of astrology presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. But this book, composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a digest of the more complex systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas (Astrology, apparently, is not practiced in Satya yuga). We can only imagine how complex these other systems must have been if Parasara Hora is the simplified version for the less intelligent inhabitants of Kali Yuga.> > > > > > > > I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex even to an experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about planetary periods called mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha based on a 120 year cycle. But this is only one of more than 40(!) different systems of mahadasha that Parasara gives in his BPHS.> > > > > > > > JAIMINI> > > > > > > > Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini system as explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple of Parasara. Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly and stark. This is most likely because the original text was written in sutra form, very pithy aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result there have been few commentaries or texts written about the Jaimini system. However if you study Jaimini you will see that it is a subset of Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few methods of Parasara and developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it will seem like an alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things such as ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.> > > > > > > > TAJIKA> > > > > > > > I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is basically a cross between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India by the Turks. It is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is somewhat popular in Northern India (which was ravaged by the Muslims) amongst the eclectic astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic tradition.> > > > > > > > In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text and commentary on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a couple of translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna Tantra and their method of "yearly horoscope" called Varshaphala. This Varshaphala is nothing but the "solar return" that is used in western astrology with a few Vedic twists added. To better understand Tajika system one should study the works of William Lilly (17th century English astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on Solar returns.> > > > > > > > Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically unheard of in South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully preserved from impurities such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without finding out its antecedents, at least one well known astrologer has introduced Tajika into ISKCON. This is the danger of mimicking what ever Hindus do and assuming it is Vedic. You have to research and dig for the truth.> > > > > > > > This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into ISKCON as a way to "Strengthen your karmas..." A friend of mine asked the same astrologer about why he prescribed gems. This is what my friend told me.> > > > > > > > "I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is sure it is bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them."> > > > > > > > Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept their philosophy also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox populi as our standard for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will get back to gems later. I have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami about Prabhupada and gems, that he said I could share with you. This will be a starting point for a deeper look into the relationship between gems, astrology and remedial measures. So keep posted.> > > > > > > > We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system of astrology which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a minimal understanding of Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika has deviated from Parasara. As B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika system "...a definite departure from the canons of Parasara..."> > > > > > > > How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the give away clue is that they advertise "yearly readings." Vedic astrology is also capable of doing yearly readings, or readings for any length of time. But the "yearly reading" is a Tajika specialty. If you are not certain whether the yearly reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how the astrologer bases the reading. If he answers that it is based on the sun returning to the same position as it was at the time of your birth, then that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the western "Solar Return" method.> > > > > > > > I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like the fact that it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not very effective. Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.> > > > > > > > (Another thing that some bogus "Vedic" astrologers do, is to use Neptune, Uranus and Pluto.)> > > > > > > > KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI> > > > > > > > In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti, has attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti Paddhati. This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with a few twists. First of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari mahadasha as a method for planetary directions. Then on the basis of the rulerships of the nakshatras based on the Vimshottari method he created his system. He also adopted the Placidius house system from the West. This is an uneven house system, and the first house begins from the lagna point.> > > > > > > > Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious defects such as assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain planets. This rulership only applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others. For example, astrologers in East India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer ashtottari dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are ruled differently and none are assigned to Ketu. Aside from this the KP system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very few books have been written on this system, only the ones by the creator himself. I have all the books and tried to understand them but was not satisfied. I didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my astrology teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came up negative so I dropped it.> > > > > > > > The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a magazine "Yoga and Arishta." I wouldn't recommend anyone to get entangled in this system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H. Bhanu Swami is partial to this system.> > > > > > > > KERALA SCHOOL> > > > > > > > Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is a highly note worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as devoted to astrology as is Kerala. Other parts of India have their great astrologers who are second to none. But it is generally recognized that S. India has much better astrologers than N. India. This is considered to be a result of N. India suffering grievously under the hands of the Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir used to be a great seat of Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim. Libraries where burned wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk would go "Tiger" hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from the Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional learning in N. India had setbacks.> > > > > > > > Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the North so that Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic astrology is also thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S. India, Kerala has a very high reputation for astrology. It would be difficult to say which locale had the best astrologers, but definitely Kerala would be a top contender.> > > > > > > > What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality associated with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of course there are very good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology teacher being among the best. The difference is that in Kerala every one is expected to know Prasna, while in other parts of S. India many astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N. India I didn't meet any astrologers who knew prasna.> > > > > > > > In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala, besides using the classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to a great extent. There utilization is different from what you might expect. I will give you an example.> > > > > > > > I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology teacher, Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of Kerala) and author of many astrology books in Malayalam. An Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very complex affair. Several of the most learned astrologers are invited to sit together and do Prasna. Since it is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will be at a temple and concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In important prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a second opinion in such important matters. Of course there is no value in getting a second opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must also be pandits. In any case Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was impressed to see that he was almost always made the head astrologer. It improved my confidence in him as a> > teacher.> > > > > > > > These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole day. What goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower because everything gets read. For example, once, as the Prasna was being setup a man moved the ghee lamp 3 times from one place to another before finally setting it down. One astrologer immediately announced that the deity had been in three different locations before its present resting place. When inquiry was made into the history of the temple this was confirmed.> > > > > > > > In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is performed etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the astrologers took the pan leaves and began to examine the leaves in the order they were given to him. There were 5 leaves, so this represented the first 5 houses of the prasna kundali (houses will have different meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on the size and quality of each leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each house. Amazingly the temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind boggling. This kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something like this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how Krsna is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things, which have non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of all the prasnas I attended, a practice that I continue today. This is something I would recommend to any astrologer, student or> > professional.> > > > > > > > Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara (Kerala) is that they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be the son of Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is determined according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule used by Malabar astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from Sunday onward, Mandi will correspond to the degree rising at the end of 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2 ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun rises at 6:00 AM or in other words provided that the length of day and night are equal. If unequal, then a proportional value must be taken.> > > > > > > > During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the rising degree at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis respectively after sunset from Sunday onwards. This rule applies for a night of 12 hours duration. Alterations are made for proportional values as in the case of days.(A ghati = 24 minutes, 1 day = 60 ghatis.)> > > > > > > > You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the Sun, Moon or Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some point in the zodiac determined by a particular time of day or night be given the dignity of a planet?> > > > > > > > The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses "planets." In Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which implies a source of power and ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The word for planet is loka; a different entity altogether. This is why Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th canto, to take shelter of "Krsna graha." Not that he thought that Krsna is a "planet," but that Krsna is the Supreme source of power, etc.> > > > > > > > Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its calculations. Some are esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and Upa-grahas like Dhuma, Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by Parasara). Others like the Lagna, Rahu and Ketu we don't even question, but they are definitely non-physical, but none the less powerful grahas. Rahu and Ketu are points that lie on the line of intersection of the planes of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of the Eastern horizon at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so important that the Greeks called it the "horoscopus" from which we get horoscope. Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet it is not a physical planet.> > > > > > > > The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there chart readings whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are practically the only astrologers in India who do this. When I have to do special Prasnas involving abhicara (black magic) I also integrate Mandi into the reading, it can't be done with out it. (Stay tune for an upcoming special report about a case of Vedic Astrology and Black Magic > > > > > > > > in the Far North.)> > > > > > > > The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the astrologers speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With Krsnan Potti it was a little easier because he new Pidgin English, but most of our communication about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a Sanskrit Pandit but as long as we were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I was at home. Another difficulty is that prasna as practiced in Kerala is tailor fit to the culture and society of the land. It would be diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick in a country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles on the altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be adapted to each different country.> > > > > > > > NADI GRANTHAS> > > > > > > > Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started all of this, the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu Samhita as mentioned in Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is that the Brghu Samhita (BS) is only one of a whole genre of astrological literature called Nadi Granthas. In Sanskrit the word Nadi means river, blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and the subtle meridians that go through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna Nadis that are mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga Sastras and Ayurveda mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In any case the idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it water, blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi Granthas, nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In the above case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think that Nadi refers to a measure of time.)> > > > > > > > The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas, for the devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the Saptarishis who became prajapatis. They created devas, humans, asuras, etc. as well as other Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they know past, present and future. And they have transmitted their knowledge and guidance to us via these Nadi Granthas.> > > > > > > > [A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of the subject, is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with predictions given. You go to the reader, he calculates your chart and then finds a matching one in his collection and reads out the predictions. ]> > > > > > > > Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored it. The format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the Rishi and his disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the dialog is between Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in S. India Brghu Samhita is called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An exception to this is the Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of the Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya, Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a horoscope and discuss it, sometimes they argue over the outcome (especially the last two rishis) at which time they submit to Parvati as the referee.> > > > > > > > There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the two just mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka Nadi(supposedly by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi, Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi etc. I have even heard of a Ravana Nadi.> > > > > > > > BRGHU SAMHITA> > > > > > > > Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was mortified that he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a prayaschitta he created the BS. In the readings he always advises the person, I am told by authorities, that in order to overcome his difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to Visnu such as the cow.> > > > > > > > Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that "before you make the living entities I will make their horoscopes." I have heard from authorities that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000 charts. Well, you may ask, this certainly falls way short of the total population of India what to speak of the planet. Brghu was very intelligent, he only created the charts of those who would consult him not those who would not. So the total number of charts need not approach the total number of people. Of these charts many have been destroyed by invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of India. It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is doubtful that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to have the "real" Brghu Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur, Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my astrology teacher in Bangalore had a portion of the Brghu Samhita> > which he used extensively.> > > > > > > > METHOD OF CALCULATION> > > > > > > > The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By studying them one can see the different sources that the Parasara system is derived from. The difference in systems can be radical. For example the Kala Chandra Nadi and Druva Nadi and few others use what is known as the Nadi amsa. This is a very minute division of each sign of the zodiac. Those of you who are a little familiar with astrology have heard of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the sign is divided into 9, 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given Shodasvargas or 16 different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But in Nadi Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is assigned a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus each division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute considering that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4 minutes of time. Thus 1 amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1> > vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and all the planets are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.> > > > > > > > By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between Brghu and Siva's vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and predictions are based totally on transits. In some Nadis not only are planets considered but certain lines on the palm or bodily features are taken into account in order to determine the correct chart to read. In some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in full, in others little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.> > > > > > > > NOT ALWAYS CORRECT> > > > > > > > The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high reputation for uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to their reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be incompetent. They may not have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good to begin with, in other words the author of the Nadi wasn't so competent. There is the language barrier. And the Nadi readers are cheaters.> > > > > > > > Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially> > > > > > > > the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the Astrological Journals. The complaint is often made that while a particular Nadi may be very accurate about the past and present it fails miserably for the future. My astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan Potti, told me that he had visited many Nadi readers in his life time but found most unsatisfactory when it came to predicting the future. He told me that the best one he had come across was a Vasista Nadi in Tanjore, which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the future.> > > > > > > > I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis: Brghu Samhita, Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology teacher in Bangalore to check if I was a worthy student. The reading was remarkably accurate giving dates for operations, accidents, progress in life etc. And so far the predictions have come true also. The Kala Chandra Nadi was also interesting but not quite as accurate as the Brghu reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was accurate in some places and confirmed what other readings had said, it was not so accurate about the future. Of the three one said that I would definitely marry, one said that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could go either way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few years before I said who was correct.> > > > > > > > It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also important. The man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate astrologer in his own right, the Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi least qualified having just inherited it from his deceased father. (These nadis are kept in the families for generations. )> > > > > > > > I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a reading from him way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old palm leaf manuscripts which had been in their family for over 800 years they said. But still I was not so thrilled with the reading. I have had much better readings from ordinary astrologers. It is a mistake to think that Nadi readings are always better than the reading of a good astrologer.> > > > > > > > Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit between your chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this I mean the charts in his possession may not be exactly the same as yours. Perhaps one planet is different in sign or navamsa. And the reading may also go off if the reader is not so good as an astrologer himself, or he may be trying to flatter you.> > > > > > > > A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is improperly translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate Nadi the lipi (script) that is used is often some archaic variety that only trained persons can read. For example Granta lipi is a specially designed set of Tamil letters used to render Sanskrit. (Just as we use Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So first the Reader translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other language, into the local language. That is because most don't know English. Then some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular jargon of the Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the Reader says into English. As you can see there are plenty of places where mistakes can be made even if the Reader is honest and has in his possession a real Nadi. But the biggest cause of bad readings is cheating.> > > > > > > > CHEATING> > > > > > > > Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some fame or value, in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi Granthas and out and out cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the cheating is done but I will only mention a few here.> > > > > > > > Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in order to find your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have, what is your mother's name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also examine your palm for special lines or look for marks on your body. The Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow) will measure your shadow, and use this as a reference! Anyway using this information they try to locate your actual chart.> > > > > > > > What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you give them either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure that they have enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart, after sometime they come back saying they can't find it now, please come back tomorrow. When you come back the next day they again look for your chart and after a while they announce that they have found it. When they begin to read your chart you are amazed how so many details of your life are contained in the reading. Convinced about what they have said so far you ask them to continue and they go on reading about your future. Perhaps it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming good fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna or buy some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.> > > > > > > > What is done is that they take the information that you have given to them and weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be creative, suppose your mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible if they were to actually give out that your mothers name is Rose. How could that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book? What they will do is say that your mother's name is Puspa because she is named after a flower. This is believable. Some really creative con artists have been known (when a lot of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make calls to your area to get even more information and weave it into the story they are creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said they put in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging chemicals to make the paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is. Many people are fooled this way. > > > > > > > > Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi readings, in particular the Bhrgu Samhita.> > > > > > > > BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE> > > > > > > > My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had several years back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu Sastris there. He and his party visited several readers. Some were honest, they just admitted that they didn't have his chart available.> > > > > > > > Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while> > > > > > > > they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would> > > > > > > > come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.> > > > > > > > But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came back another day, and the postman delivered another letter from Indira Gandhi. On inquiry they found out that the postman was hired to deliver fake letters from Indira Gandhi whenever "marks" were with the astrologer in order to convince the "marks" how good he was.> > > > > > > > On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house talking to the astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call of nature, so he got up and went towards the back of the house. There he saw a man apply aging chemicals to a new horoscope thus catching him in the act of forging a Brghu reading.> > > > > > > > GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE> > > > > > > > Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an experience with the Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu visited a well known Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader. Woman astrologers are quite rare in India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader is even rarer. There is probably only one such reader. Gauranga Prabhu told me that he couldn't remember her name but he was told by some x-devotees (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same lady Bhrgu reader had visited the USA in recent years.> > > > > > > > Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years and met many astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was disgusted by his experience with her. He first of all complained that they make a big show on the first day and asked him all kinds of questions about his family and life in general. Then they told him to come back the next day for his reading because it would take some time to find his chart.> > > > > > > > In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would be impressing him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming to see them, that his wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's name with an 'R', etc. All stuff that Gauranga had told them the day before. (They could figure out the day by themselves.) The rest of the reading (which he said was unimpressive) was translated by the woman's son, written down and given to Gauranga. That was over 5 years ago. In that length of time he has looked over the predictions and not seen any come to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in sometime and would check again.> > > > > > > > He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would never consult with them again. He said that he has had much more insightful readings from other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.> > > > > > > > He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked but perhaps that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and is not experienced in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually got a good reading. Some one would have to check with Drew to find out why he thought it was so good.> > > > > > > > Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more information on his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.> > > > > > > > MAYAVADIS > > > > > > > > Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely are mayavadis. I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in India, an experienced devotee told me something I will never forget. "If you scratch an Indian long enough they will come up mayavadi." It is generally true especially for astrologers. You have to be very careful about what they say and how to take their advice. Just imagine how I felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would attain Sayujya Mukti. He thought he was telling me the best thing that a spiritual aspirant could attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and my plain disgust at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a devotee.> > > > > > > > Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the readings of even the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate, it would be foolish to make a very important decision based on what they say without getting a second opinion.> > > > > > > > An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for years and the predictions have always come true then you are probably safe to go ahead. But even with the same reader another new person could not have the same confidence because the Nadi may not work for them as well if at all.> > > > > > > > ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?> > > > > > > > I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one devotee not to build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be correct, but how do we know? How much experience with that Sastri's predictions did the devotee have? My understanding was that it was the first time that the devotee had ever consulted that BS. It is conceivable that the Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have been wrong for the reasons that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it would have been advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been done to see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to offset difficulties.> > > > > > > > It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against the misuse of astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an interesting passage that sheds light on the present situation of Bhrgu Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.> > > > > > > > " Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers. Srila Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a letter to Devamayi dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding astrology, you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers- -strictly avoid. Don't even see them. What is the use of seeing them?"...> > > > > > > > ...I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the letter above. The history is that certain devotees were going to karmi astrologers and these astrologers by moon transits were telling the devotees when they should go out on sankirtana and when they should not. The net result was that they were putting the devotees completely on the mental platform. So she wrote Srila Prabhupada to see if he would agree with this practice as she thought it was a deviation to his instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an astrologer herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was wrong and Srila Prabhupada concurred".> > > > > > > > When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very careful about getting advice from persons whose spiritual antecedents and loyalties are unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada or the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others I doubt.)> > > > > > > > Remember, as I like to say; "Astrology is perfect; astrologers are not." In such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila Prabhupada, who I know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer of unknown spiritual loyalties.> > > > > > > > At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the reasons that the powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of astrology in ISKCON. After this debacle who can blame them for casting a doubtful eye on astrologers. This is why I have been pushing for some sort of certification program to protect the devotees. In my recommendations for the qualifications of an astrologer I made several points, one of them being:> > > > > > > > "5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be detrimental to the spiritual life of his client."> > > > > > > > It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer discouraged a devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to spiritual guidelines given by our Guru Maharaja and should never have been allowed to happen. Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to ignore the advice of these two astrologers and stick tightly to Srila Prabhupada's directions.> > > > > > > > I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other astrologers.> > > > > > > > INSTANT KARMA> > > > > > > > I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate Nadi Grantas may misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was touring all over the USA giving readings and charging a lot of money. One day he fell dead as a door nail from a massive heart attack, he was only about 32 years old. The thought amongst astrologers is that he suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble purposes.> > > > > > > > In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had anyone in ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu> > > > > > > > readings?> > > > > > > > Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from Gujarat who was raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have personally met him, he promised to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but never did so. He kept giving excuses for not doing it. Once he even said that he did it but it was not the right time to read it etc. He seemed to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and that somehow this might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It seemed very strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever giving excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case after about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally gave up. So I can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.> > > > > > > > The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings and is part of ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi Kanta Jain. Subanjaya Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an accomplished astrologer. However because of his heavy work load and delicate health I doubt that he or anyone in his family would do a full Bhrgu reading for anyone. I now realize that I was fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading that I did from his father.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji,

First of all yes, I agree with you too. Commenting without complete knowledge of

any branch of jyotish is not correct.

You have asked a very good question -

" in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the

tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who did

prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on malefic influence

in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ?? "

If we refer to classics like Prasna Marga it clearly states that if in the

prasna chart malefic influence in the Lagna, then the astrologer should not

proceed with the reading. Various combination have been detailed on this in the

classics.

However, my learning is a little different. At the moment of the pransa, the

primary significator of the question should influence the Lagna to show success

of the prasna.

" Will I get cured " ? is the question and Saturn rises in the Lagna then the one

word answer is definitely yes.

" Will I win the court case " ? is the question and Mars rises in the Lagna then

the one word answer is yes.

Malefics are as much part of creation as are Benefics and the subject is totally

relative and this is the very reason that Parasara rishi refers to Naisargik and

Tatkalin Sambandhas in verses 55,56 of Chapter 3 of BPHS.

 

, " Sunil "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> Dear satyabhama JI

>

> sure ,here i agree with u ,one gets what he deserves

> even if it is astrologer or anything .

>

> I noticed this syamsuder dasa ever since i know he was sisya of

> Brahmashri Krishnan poti and i closly followed his many of writings too

> .so when i find such a post/messge just reposted in grp for others to

> see and judge .Otherwise i dont hav much inclination for his religious

> sentiments other than astro-writing .Even i dont agree what he wrote in

> post abt KP padhati ,in defence of his opinion he was saying that there

> is diffrnt dasa systems other than vimshottary ( as in KP they use star

> Lords etc )and that is too shallow argumnt .As KP uses Vimshottary dasa

> Only .

> Recently i find one gentle man rectified a child chart around 55 minits

> backward ,as birth time not supporting some theories in the KP

> principles ,such Ppl ( i dont know why KP got such disciples ) r realy

> destroying KP system s tho i dont know much abt it .

>

> Even with Normal astrological rules such a disease for kid is viscible

> and this man mov birth time back to such a large time window ,that too

> without asking anything abt the details ( i mean how sure is Birth time

> etc )

>

> in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the

> tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who

> did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on

> malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??

>

> just a brain teaser

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

>

> , " Satya "

> <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote:

> >

> > Sunil ji, thank you for sharing this article. I believe that when

> someone very deeply associates with a religious organization, his/her

> views don't remain completely unbiased as is required to be a good

> jyotish. For example, it is very much possible that someone may not be

> required to build temples or invest money in religious institutions and

> by doing so, he/she may be depriving his/her family the necessities of

> life (just for example). However, if someone is biased by being part of

> a religious organization he/she according to Shyamsundar Dasa should

> advice otherwise to the client. Such an advice is a very unfair. Anyway,

> the astrologer we go to is also decided based on our karma and that is

> why in a prasna chart the jyotishi sits in the 12th house of the prasna

> chart.

> >

> >

> > , Sunil Nair

> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > (Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology

> > >

> > >

> > > Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > By Shyamasundara Das

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following question:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic

> astrological system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in

> this area? "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic astrology

> as well as some questionable and bogus schools.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava method

> of worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as well

> as differences. The similarities exist because the source and purpose

> of the text are the same. The differences exist because the authors

> have their own personal slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > PARASARA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India

> today is that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets of

> astrology presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra.

> But this book, composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a digest

> of the more complex systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas

> (Astrology, apparently, is not practiced in Satya yuga). We can only

> imagine how complex these other systems must have been if Parasara Hora

> is the simplified version for the less intelligent inhabitants of Kali

> Yuga.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex even

> to an experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about planetary

> periods called mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha based on

> a 120 year cycle. But this is only one of more than 40(!) different

> systems of mahadasha that Parasara gives in his BPHS.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > JAIMINI

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini system as

> explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple of

> Parasara. Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly and

> stark. This is most likely because the original text was written in

> sutra form, very pithy aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result

> there have been few commentaries or texts written about the Jaimini

> system. However if you study Jaimini you will see that it is a subset of

> Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few methods of Parasara and

> developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it will seem like an

> alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things such as

> ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > TAJIKA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is basically a

> cross between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India by

> the Turks. It is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is

> somewhat popular in Northern India (which was ravaged by the Muslims)

> amongst the eclectic astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic

> tradition.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text and

> commentary on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a

> couple of translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna

> Tantra and their method of " yearly horoscope " called Varshaphala. This

> Varshaphala is nothing but the " solar return " that is used in western

> astrology with a few Vedic twists added. To better understand Tajika

> system one should study the works of William Lilly (17th century English

> astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on Solar returns.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically unheard

> of in South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully preserved

> from impurities such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without finding

> out its antecedents, at least one well known astrologer has introduced

> Tajika into ISKCON. This is the danger of mimicking what ever Hindus do

> and assuming it is Vedic. You have to research and dig for the truth.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into

> ISKCON as a way to " Strengthen your karmas... " A friend of mine asked

> the same astrologer about why he prescribed gems. This is what my

> friend told me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is sure it

> is bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept their

> philosophy also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox populi

> as our standard for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will get

> back to gems later. I have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami about

> Prabhupada and gems, that he said I could share with you. This will be a

> starting point for a deeper look into the relationship between gems,

> astrology and remedial measures. So keep posted.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system of

> astrology which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a minimal

> understanding of Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika has

> deviated from Parasara. As B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika system

> " ...a definite departure from the canons of Parasara... "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the give

> away clue is that they advertise " yearly readings. " Vedic astrology is

> also capable of doing yearly readings, or readings for any length of

> time. But the " yearly reading " is a Tajika specialty. If you are not

> certain whether the yearly reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how the

> astrologer bases the reading. If he answers that it is based on the sun

> returning to the same position as it was at the time of your birth, then

> that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the western " Solar Return "

> method.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like the

> fact that it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not very

> effective. Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > (Another thing that some bogus " Vedic " astrologers do, is to use

> Neptune, Uranus and Pluto.)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti, has

> attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti

> Paddhati. This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with a

> few twists. First of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari mahadasha

> as a method for planetary directions. Then on the basis of the

> rulerships of the nakshatras based on the Vimshottari method he created

> his system. He also adopted the Placidius house system from the West.

> This is an uneven house system, and the first house begins from the

> lagna point.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious

> defects such as assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain planets.

> This rulership only applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others. For

> example, astrologers in East India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer ashtottari

> dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are ruled

> differently and none are assigned to Ketu. Aside from this the KP

> system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very few books have been

> written on this system, only the ones by the creator himself. I have

> all the books and tried to understand them but was not satisfied. I

> didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my astrology

> teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came up

> negative so I dropped it.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a

> magazine " Yoga and Arishta. " I wouldn't recommend anyone to get

> entangled in this system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H.

> Bhanu Swami is partial to this system.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > KERALA SCHOOL

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is a

> highly note worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as devoted

> to astrology as is Kerala. Other parts of India have their great

> astrologers who are second to none. But it is generally recognized that

> S. India has much better astrologers than N. India. This is considered

> to be a result of N. India suffering grievously under the hands of the

> Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir used to be a great seat of

> Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim. Libraries where burned

> wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk would go " Tiger "

> hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from the

> Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional learning

> in N. India had setbacks.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the North

> so that Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic

> astrology is also thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S.

> India, Kerala has a very high reputation for astrology. It would be

> difficult to say which locale had the best astrologers, but definitely

> Kerala would be a top contender.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality

> associated with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of course

> there are very good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology

> teacher being among the best. The difference is that in Kerala every one

> is expected to know Prasna, while in other parts of S. India many

> astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N. India I didn't meet any

> astrologers who knew prasna.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala, besides

> using the classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to a

> great extent. There utilization is different from what you might

> expect. I will give you an example.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology

> teacher, Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of

> Kerala) and author of many astrology books in Malayalam. An

> Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very complex affair. Several of the most

> learned astrologers are invited to sit together and do Prasna. Since it

> is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will be at a temple and

> concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In important

> prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the

> possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a second

> opinion in such important matters. Of course there is no value in

> getting a second opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must also

> be pandits. In any case Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these

> Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was impressed to see that he was almost

> always made the head astrologer. It improved my confidence in him as a

> > > teacher.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole

> day. What goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower

> because everything gets read. For example, once, as the Prasna was

> being setup a man moved the ghee lamp 3 times from one place to another

> before finally setting it down. One astrologer immediately announced

> that the deity had been in three different locations before its present

> resting place. When inquiry was made into the history of the temple

> this was confirmed.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is

> performed etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the

> astrologers took the pan leaves and began to examine the leaves in the

> order they were given to him. There were 5 leaves, so this represented

> the first 5 houses of the prasna kundali (houses will have different

> meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on the size and quality of each

> leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each house. Amazingly the

> temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind boggling. This

> kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something like

> this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how

> Krsna is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things,

> which have non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of all

> the prasnas I attended, a practice that I continue today. This is

> something I would recommend to any astrologer, student or

> > > professional.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara (Kerala) is

> that they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be the

> son of Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is

> determined according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule used

> by Malabar astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from

> Sunday onward, Mandi will correspond to the degree rising at the end of

> 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2 ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun

> rises at 6:00 AM or in other words provided that the length of day and

> night are equal. If unequal, then a proportional value must be taken.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the

> rising degree at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis

> respectively after sunset from Sunday onwards. This rule applies for a

> night of 12 hours duration. Alterations are made for proportional

> values as in the case of days.(A ghati = 24 minutes, 1 day = 60

> ghatis.)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the Sun,

> Moon or Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some point

> in the zodiac determined by a particular time of day or night be given

> the dignity of a planet?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses

> " planets. " In Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which implies a

> source of power and ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The

> word for planet is loka; a different entity altogether. This is why

> Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th canto, to take shelter of " Krsna

> graha. " Not that he thought that Krsna is a " planet, " but that Krsna is

> the Supreme source of power, etc.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its calculations.

> Some are esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and

> Upa-grahas like Dhuma, Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by Parasara).

> Others like the Lagna, Rahu and Ketu we don't even question, but they

> are definitely non-physical, but none the less powerful grahas. Rahu

> and Ketu are points that lie on the line of intersection of the planes

> of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of the Eastern horizon

> at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so important

> that the Greeks called it the " horoscopus " from which we get horoscope.

> Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet it is

> not a physical planet.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there chart

> readings whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are

> practically the only astrologers in India who do this. When I have to do

> special Prasnas involving abhicara (black magic) I also integrate Mandi

> into the reading, it can't be done with out it. (Stay tune for an

> upcoming special report about a case of Vedic Astrology and Black Magic

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > in the Far North.)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the

> astrologers speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With Krsnan

> Potti it was a little easier because he new Pidgin English, but most of

> our communication about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a Sanskrit

> Pandit but as long as we were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I was at

> home. Another difficulty is that prasna as practiced in Kerala is

> tailor fit to the culture and society of the land. It would be

> diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick in a

> country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles on

> the altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be

> adapted to each different country.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > NADI GRANTHAS

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started all

> of this, the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu Samhita

> as mentioned in Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is that

> the Brghu Samhita (BS) is only one of a whole genre of astrological

> literature called Nadi Granthas. In Sanskrit the word Nadi means river,

> blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and the subtle meridians that go

> through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna Nadis that are

> mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga Sastras and Ayurveda

> mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In any case the

> idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it water,

> blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi Granthas,

> nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In the

> above case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think that

> Nadi refers to a measure of time.)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas, for

> the devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the

> Saptarishis who became prajapatis. They created devas, humans, asuras,

> etc. as well as other Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the

> Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they know past, present and future. And they

> have transmitted their knowledge and guidance to us via these Nadi

> Granthas.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of the

> subject, is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with

> predictions given. You go to the reader, he calculates your chart and

> then finds a matching one in his collection and reads out the

> predictions. ]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored it.

> The format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the Rishi

> and his disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the

> dialog is between Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in S.

> India Brghu Samhita is called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An

> exception to this is the Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of the

> Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya, Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and

> Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a horoscope and discuss it, sometimes

> they argue over the outcome (especially the last two rishis) at which

> time they submit to Parvati as the referee.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the two

> just mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka

> Nadi(supposedly by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi,

> Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi etc. I have even heard of a Ravana Nadi.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > BRGHU SAMHITA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was

> mortified that he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a

> prayaschitta he created the BS. In the readings he always advises the

> person, I am told by authorities, that in order to overcome his

> difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to Visnu such as

> the cow.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that " before

> you make the living entities I will make their horoscopes. " I have heard

> from authorities that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000 charts.

> Well, you may ask, this certainly falls way short of the total

> population of India what to speak of the planet. Brghu was very

> intelligent, he only created the charts of those who would consult him

> not those who would not. So the total number of charts need not approach

> the total number of people. Of these charts many have been destroyed by

> invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of India.

> It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is

> doubtful that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to have

> the " real " Brghu Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma

> Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur, Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my

> astrology teacher in Bangalore had a portion of the Brghu Samhita

> > > which he used extensively.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > METHOD OF CALCULATION

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By

> studying them one can see the different sources that the Parasara system

> is derived from. The difference in systems can be radical. For example

> the Kala Chandra Nadi and Druva Nadi and few others use what is known as

> the Nadi amsa. This is a very minute division of each sign of the

> zodiac. Those of you who are a little familiar with astrology have heard

> of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the sign is divided into 9,

> 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given Shodasvargas or 16

> different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But in Nadi

> Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is assigned

> a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus each

> division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute

> considering that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4

> minutes of time. Thus 1 amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1

> > > vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and all

> the planets are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between Brghu

> and Siva's vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and

> predictions are based totally on transits. In some Nadis not only are

> planets considered but certain lines on the palm or bodily features are

> taken into account in order to determine the correct chart to read. In

> some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in full, in others

> little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > NOT ALWAYS CORRECT

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high reputation

> for uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to

> their reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be incompetent.

> They may not have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good to

> begin with, in other words the author of the Nadi wasn't so competent.

> There is the language barrier. And the Nadi readers are cheaters.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the

> Astrological Journals. The complaint is often made that while a

> particular Nadi may be very accurate about the past and present it fails

> miserably for the future. My astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan Potti,

> told me that he had visited many Nadi readers in his life time but found

> most unsatisfactory when it came to predicting the future. He told me

> that the best one he had come across was a Vasista Nadi in Tanjore,

> which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the future.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis: Brghu

> Samhita, Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology

> teacher in Bangalore to check if I was a worthy student. The reading was

> remarkably accurate giving dates for operations, accidents, progress in

> life etc. And so far the predictions have come true also. The Kala

> Chandra Nadi was also interesting but not quite as accurate as the Brghu

> reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was accurate in some places and

> confirmed what other readings had said, it was not so accurate about the

> future. Of the three one said that I would definitely marry, one said

> that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could go either

> way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few years

> before I said who was correct.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also

> important. The man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate astrologer

> in his own right, the Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi least

> qualified having just inherited it from his deceased father. (These

> nadis are kept in the families for generations. )

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a reading

> from him way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old palm

> leaf manuscripts which had been in their family for over 800 years they

> said. But still I was not so thrilled with the reading. I have had much

> better readings from ordinary astrologers. It is a mistake to think that

> Nadi readings are always better than the reading of a good astrologer.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit

> between your chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this I

> mean the charts in his possession may not be exactly the same as yours.

> Perhaps one planet is different in sign or navamsa. And the reading may

> also go off if the reader is not so good as an astrologer himself, or he

> may be trying to flatter you.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is

> improperly translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate Nadi

> the lipi (script) that is used is often some archaic variety that only

> trained persons can read. For example Granta lipi is a specially

> designed set of Tamil letters used to render Sanskrit. (Just as we use

> Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So first the Reader

> translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other language,

> into the local language. That is because most don't know English. Then

> some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular jargon of

> the Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the

> Reader says into English. As you can see there are plenty of places

> where mistakes can be made even if the Reader is honest and has in his

> possession a real Nadi. But the biggest cause of bad readings is

> cheating.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > CHEATING

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some fame

> or value, in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi Granthas

> and out and out cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the

> cheating is done but I will only mention a few here.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in order

> to find your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have, what is

> your mother's name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also

> examine your palm for special lines or look for marks on your body. The

> Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow) will measure your shadow, and use this as a

> reference! Anyway using this information they try to locate your actual

> chart.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you give

> them either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure that

> they have enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart, after

> sometime they come back saying they can't find it now, please come back

> tomorrow. When you come back the next day they again look for your chart

> and after a while they announce that they have found it. When they begin

> to read your chart you are amazed how so many details of your life are

> contained in the reading. Convinced about what they have said so far you

> ask them to continue and they go on reading about your future. Perhaps

> it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming good

> fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna or

> buy some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > What is done is that they take the information that you have given

> to them and weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be

> creative, suppose your mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible if

> they were to actually give out that your mothers name is Rose. How could

> that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book? What they will do is say that your

> mother's name is Puspa because she is named after a flower. This is

> believable. Some really creative con artists have been known (when a lot

> of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make calls to your

> area to get even more information and weave it into the story they are

> creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said they

> put in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging chemicals

> to make the paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is. Many

> people are fooled this way.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi

> readings, in particular the Bhrgu Samhita.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had

> several years back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu Sastris

> there. He and his party visited several readers. Some were honest, they

> just admitted that they didn't have his chart available.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came back

> another day, and the postman delivered another letter from Indira

> Gandhi. On inquiry they found out that the postman was hired to deliver

> fake letters from Indira Gandhi whenever " marks " were with the

> astrologer in order to convince the " marks " how good he was.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house

> talking to the astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call of

> nature, so he got up and went towards the back of the house. There he

> saw a man apply aging chemicals to a new horoscope thus catching him in

> the act of forging a Brghu reading.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an experience

> with the Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu

> visited a well known Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader. Woman

> astrologers are quite rare in India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader is

> even rarer. There is probably only one such reader. Gauranga Prabhu told

> me that he couldn't remember her name but he was told by some x-devotees

> (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same lady Bhrgu reader had

> visited the USA in recent years.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years and

> met many astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was

> disgusted by his experience with her. He first of all complained that

> they make a big show on the first day and asked him all kinds of

> questions about his family and life in general. Then they told him to

> come back the next day for his reading because it would take some time

> to find his chart.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would be

> impressing him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming to

> see them, that his wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's name

> with an 'R', etc. All stuff that Gauranga had told them the day before.

> (They could figure out the day by themselves.) The rest of the reading

> (which he said was unimpressive) was translated by the woman's son,

> written down and given to Gauranga. That was over 5 years ago. In that

> length of time he has looked over the predictions and not seen any come

> to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in sometime and

> would check again.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would never

> consult with them again. He said that he has had much more insightful

> readings from other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked but

> perhaps that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and is

> not experienced in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually got a

> good reading. Some one would have to check with Drew to find out why he

> thought it was so good.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more

> information on his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > MAYAVADIS

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely are

> mayavadis. I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in

> India, an experienced devotee told me something I will never forget. " If

> you scratch an Indian long enough they will come up mayavadi. " It is

> generally true especially for astrologers. You have to be very careful

> about what they say and how to take their advice. Just imagine how I

> felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would attain Sayujya Mukti. He

> thought he was telling me the best thing that a spiritual aspirant could

> attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and my plain disgust

> at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a devotee.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the

> readings of even the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate, it

> would be foolish to make a very important decision based on what they

> say without getting a second opinion.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for years

> and the predictions have always come true then you are probably safe to

> go ahead. But even with the same reader another new person could not

> have the same confidence because the Nadi may not work for them as well

> if at all.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one

> devotee not to build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be correct,

> but how do we know? How much experience with that Sastri's predictions

> did the devotee have? My understanding was that it was the first time

> that the devotee had ever consulted that BS. It is conceivable that the

> Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have been wrong for the reasons

> that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it would have been

> advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been done to

> see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to offset

> difficulties.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against the

> misuse of astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an

> interesting passage that sheds light on the present situation of Bhrgu

> Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers.

> Srila Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a

> letter to Devamayi dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding astrology,

> you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers- -strictly

> avoid. Don't even see them. What is the use of seeing them? " ...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ...I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the letter

> above. The history is that certain devotees were going to karmi

> astrologers and these astrologers by moon transits were telling the

> devotees when they should go out on sankirtana and when they should not.

> The net result was that they were putting the devotees completely on the

> mental platform. So she wrote Srila Prabhupada to see if he would agree

> with this practice as she thought it was a deviation to his

> instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an astrologer

> herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was wrong

> and Srila Prabhupada concurred " .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very

> careful about getting advice from persons whose spiritual antecedents

> and loyalties are unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada or

> the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others I

> doubt.)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Remember, as I like to say; " Astrology is perfect; astrologers are

> not. " In such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila

> Prabhupada, who I know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer of

> unknown spiritual loyalties.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the reasons

> that the powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of

> astrology in ISKCON. After this debacle who can blame them for casting a

> doubtful eye on astrologers. This is why I have been pushing for some

> sort of certification program to protect the devotees. In my

> recommendations for the qualifications of an astrologer I made several

> points, one of them being:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " 5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be detrimental

> to the spiritual life of his client. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer

> discouraged a devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to

> spiritual guidelines given by our Guru Maharaja and should never have

> been allowed to happen. Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to

> ignore the advice of these two astrologers and stick tightly to Srila

> Prabhupada's directions.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other astrologers.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > INSTANT KARMA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate Nadi

> Grantas may misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was

> touring all over the USA giving readings and charging a lot of money.

> One day he fell dead as a door nail from a massive heart attack, he was

> only about 32 years old. The thought amongst astrologers is that he

> suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble purposes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had

> anyone in ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > readings?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from

> Gujarat who was raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have

> personally met him, he promised to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but

> never did so. He kept giving excuses for not doing it. Once he even said

> that he did it but it was not the right time to read it etc. He seemed

> to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and that somehow this

> might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It seemed very

> strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever giving

> excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case after

> about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally gave

> up. So I can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings and

> is part of ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi Kanta

> Jain. Subanjaya Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an accomplished

> astrologer. However because of his heavy work load and delicate health I

> doubt that he or anyone in his family would do a full Bhrgu reading for

> anyone. I now realize that I was fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading that

> I did from his father.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your

> Homepage. http://in./

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear satyabhamaJi Thanks for ur post i think u r post is incomplete any way with logic we can say maelfics in lagna in good for winning casesbut even if saturn is sgnificater planet how we can say with Logic that the nativ will b cured ??I am asking Logic here prashna maarga says maelfics in Lagna is not good ,i dont know it ever said astrologer shud not proceed with readings other than in cases where we know (i mean atrologer seen tru devination ) - the intention of queriest is bad ,un ethical Say a wife came to ask abt welfare of her sick hubby and malefics influence Lagna ,then we must proceed with care and assess all the chart then only spell out good or bad results (if u read my post on one prashna b4 few days --i never wrote that malefics in rising lagna ,so the prashna is closed )even waht i can gather is malifics in certain prashna s it is good too ,sure depending on the nature of prashna dpending on prashna s the efect can b diffrnt ,say in Bhojan prashna sani may indicate bad /stale food ,and even plates made of Horns ,skins or even iron etc /even meat of big animals like buffalo etc will b served etc /even the cermony where food is givn may b some sradha ceremony /death rites etc in ornaments prashna sani influencing lagna may indicate neela ratna to iron in Vastra prashna sani may indicate even torned cloths /black etc same way we can consider other planets toomore later prashna maarga says astrologer shud b OOHa poha padu ( a man who is expert in guess work )rgrds sunil nair , "Satya" <satyabhama_gupta_1980 wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji,> First of all yes, I agree with you too. Commenting without complete knowledge of any branch of jyotish is not correct. > You have asked a very good question -> "in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??"> If we refer to classics like Prasna Marga it clearly states that if in the prasna chart malefic influence in the Lagna, then the astrologer should not proceed with the reading. Various combination have been detailed on this in the classics.> However, my learning is a little different. At the moment of the pransa, the primary significator of the question should influence the Lagna to show success of the prasna.> "Will I get cured"? is the question and Saturn rises in the Lagna then the one word answer is definitely yes.> "Will I win the court case"? is the question and Mars rises in the Lagna then the one word answer is yes.> Malefics are as much part of creation as are Benefics and the subject is totally relative and this is the very reason that Parasara rishi refers to Naisargik and Tatkalin Sambandhas in verses 55,56 of Chapter 3 of BPHS.> > , "Sunil" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear satyabhama JI> > > > sure ,here i agree with u ,one gets what he deserves> > even if it is astrologer or anything .> > > > I noticed this syamsuder dasa ever since i know he was sisya of > > Brahmashri Krishnan poti and i closly followed his many of writings too > > .so when i find such a post/messge just reposted in grp for others to > > see and judge .Otherwise i dont hav much inclination for his religious > > sentiments other than astro-writing .Even i dont agree what he wrote in > > post abt KP padhati ,in defence of his opinion he was saying that there > > is diffrnt dasa systems other than vimshottary ( as in KP they use star > > Lords etc )and that is too shallow argumnt .As KP uses Vimshottary dasa > > Only .> > Recently i find one gentle man rectified a child chart around 55 minits > > backward ,as birth time not supporting some theories in the KP > > principles ,such Ppl ( i dont know why KP got such disciples ) r realy > > destroying KP system s tho i dont know much abt it .> > > > Even with Normal astrological rules such a disease for kid is viscible > > and this man mov birth time back to such a large time window ,that too > > without asking anything abt the details ( i mean how sure is Birth time > > etc )> > > > in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the > > tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who > > did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on > > malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??> > > > just a brain teaser> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > , "Satya"> > <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote:> > >> > > Sunil ji, thank you for sharing this article. I believe that when> > someone very deeply associates with a religious organization, his/her> > views don't remain completely unbiased as is required to be a good> > jyotish. For example, it is very much possible that someone may not be> > required to build temples or invest money in religious institutions and> > by doing so, he/she may be depriving his/her family the necessities of> > life (just for example). However, if someone is biased by being part of> > a religious organization he/she according to Shyamsundar Dasa should> > advice otherwise to the client. Such an advice is a very unfair. Anyway,> > the astrologer we go to is also decided based on our karma and that is> > why in a prasna chart the jyotishi sits in the 12th house of the prasna> > chart.> > >> > >> > > , Sunil Nair> > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Â> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > (Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology> > > >> > > >> > > > Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > By Shyamasundara Das> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following question:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > "Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic > > astrological system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in > > this area?"> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic astrology> > as well as some questionable and bogus schools.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava method> > of worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as well> > as differences. The similarities exist because the source and purpose> > of the text are the same. The differences exist because the authors> > have their own personal slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > PARASARA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India> > today is that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets of > > astrology presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. > > But this book, composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a digest > > of the more complex systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas> > (Astrology, apparently, is not practiced in Satya yuga). We can only > > imagine how complex these other systems must have been if Parasara Hora > > is the simplified version for the less intelligent inhabitants of Kali > > Yuga.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex even> > to an experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about planetary > > periods called mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha based on> > a 120 year cycle. But this is only one of more than 40(!) different > > systems of mahadasha that Parasara gives in his BPHS.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > JAIMINI> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini system as> > explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple of > > Parasara. Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly and> > stark. This is most likely because the original text was written in > > sutra form, very pithy aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result > > there have been few commentaries or texts written about the Jaimini > > system. However if you study Jaimini you will see that it is a subset of> > Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few methods of Parasara and > > developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it will seem like an> > alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things such as > > ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > TAJIKA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is basically a > > cross between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India by > > the Turks. It is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is > > somewhat popular in Northern India (which was ravaged by the Muslims) > > amongst the eclectic astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic> > tradition.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text and > > commentary on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a > > couple of translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna > > Tantra and their method of "yearly horoscope" called Varshaphala. This > > Varshaphala is nothing but the "solar return" that is used in western> > astrology with a few Vedic twists added. To better understand Tajika > > system one should study the works of William Lilly (17th century English> > astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on Solar returns.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically unheard> > of in South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully preserved> > from impurities such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without finding> > out its antecedents, at least one well known astrologer has introduced > > Tajika into ISKCON. This is the danger of mimicking what ever Hindus do> > and assuming it is Vedic. You have to research and dig for the truth.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into> > ISKCON as a way to "Strengthen your karmas..." A friend of mine asked> > the same astrologer about why he prescribed gems. This is what my> > friend told me.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > "I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is sure it> > is bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them."> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept their > > philosophy also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox populi > > as our standard for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will get > > back to gems later. I have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami about> > Prabhupada and gems, that he said I could share with you. This will be a> > starting point for a deeper look into the relationship between gems, > > astrology and remedial measures. So keep posted.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system of > > astrology which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a minimal > > understanding of Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika has > > deviated from Parasara. As B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika system > > "...a definite departure from the canons of Parasara..."> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the give> > away clue is that they advertise "yearly readings." Vedic astrology is> > also capable of doing yearly readings, or readings for any length of> > time. But the "yearly reading" is a Tajika specialty. If you are not> > certain whether the yearly reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how the > > astrologer bases the reading. If he answers that it is based on the sun > > returning to the same position as it was at the time of your birth, then> > that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the western "Solar Return"> > method.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like the> > fact that it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not very> > effective. Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > (Another thing that some bogus "Vedic" astrologers do, is to use > > Neptune, Uranus and Pluto.)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti, has> > attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti > > Paddhati. This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with a > > few twists. First of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari mahadasha> > as a method for planetary directions. Then on the basis of the > > rulerships of the nakshatras based on the Vimshottari method he created > > his system. He also adopted the Placidius house system from the West. > > This is an uneven house system, and the first house begins from the > > lagna point.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious> > defects such as assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain planets.> > This rulership only applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others. For > > example, astrologers in East India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer ashtottari> > dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are ruled> > differently and none are assigned to Ketu. Aside from this the KP > > system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very few books have been> > written on this system, only the ones by the creator himself. I have> > all the books and tried to understand them but was not satisfied. I> > didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my astrology> > teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came up> > negative so I dropped it.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a> > magazine "Yoga and Arishta." I wouldn't recommend anyone to get> > entangled in this system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H.> > Bhanu Swami is partial to this system.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > KERALA SCHOOL> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is a> > highly note worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as devoted> > to astrology as is Kerala. Other parts of India have their great > > astrologers who are second to none. But it is generally recognized that > > S. India has much better astrologers than N. India. This is considered > > to be a result of N. India suffering grievously under the hands of the > > Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir used to be a great seat of > > Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim. Libraries where burned > > wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk would go "Tiger" > > hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from the > > Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional learning > > in N. India had setbacks.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the North> > so that Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic> > astrology is also thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S.> > India, Kerala has a very high reputation for astrology. It would be> > difficult to say which locale had the best astrologers, but definitely> > Kerala would be a top contender.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality > > associated with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of course> > there are very good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology > > teacher being among the best. The difference is that in Kerala every one> > is expected to know Prasna, while in other parts of S. India many > > astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N. India I didn't meet any> > astrologers who knew prasna.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala, besides> > using the classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to a> > great extent. There utilization is different from what you might> > expect. I will give you an example.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology> > teacher, Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of> > Kerala) and author of many astrology books in Malayalam. An> > Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very complex affair. Several of the most> > learned astrologers are invited to sit together and do Prasna. Since it> > is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will be at a temple and> > concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In important> > prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the> > possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a second> > opinion in such important matters. Of course there is no value in> > getting a second opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must also> > be pandits. In any case Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these> > Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was impressed to see that he was almost> > always made the head astrologer. It improved my confidence in him as a> > > > teacher.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole> > day. What goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower> > because everything gets read. For example, once, as the Prasna was> > being setup a man moved the ghee lamp 3 times from one place to another> > before finally setting it down. One astrologer immediately announced> > that the deity had been in three different locations before its present> > resting place. When inquiry was made into the history of the temple> > this was confirmed.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is > > performed etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the > > astrologers took the pan leaves and began to examine the leaves in the > > order they were given to him. There were 5 leaves, so this represented > > the first 5 houses of the prasna kundali (houses will have different> > meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on the size and quality of each > > leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each house. Amazingly the > > temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind boggling. This> > kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something like> > this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how > > Krsna is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things, > > which have non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of all> > the prasnas I attended, a practice that I continue today. This is> > something I would recommend to any astrologer, student or> > > > professional.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara (Kerala) is> > that they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be the > > son of Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is > > determined according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule used> > by Malabar astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from > > Sunday onward, Mandi will correspond to the degree rising at the end of > > 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2 ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun > > rises at 6:00 AM or in other words provided that the length of day and > > night are equal. If unequal, then a proportional value must be taken.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the> > rising degree at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis> > respectively after sunset from Sunday onwards. This rule applies for a> > night of 12 hours duration. Alterations are made for proportional> > values as in the case of days.(A ghati = 24 minutes, 1 day = 60> > ghatis.)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the Sun,> > Moon or Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some point> > in the zodiac determined by a particular time of day or night be given> > the dignity of a planet?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses > > "planets." In Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which implies a > > source of power and ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The > > word for planet is loka; a different entity altogether. This is why > > Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th canto, to take shelter of "Krsna > > graha." Not that he thought that Krsna is a "planet," but that Krsna is > > the Supreme source of power, etc.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its calculations.> > Some are esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and> > Upa-grahas like Dhuma, Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by Parasara).> > Others like the Lagna, Rahu and Ketu we don't even question, but they> > are definitely non-physical, but none the less powerful grahas. Rahu> > and Ketu are points that lie on the line of intersection of the planes> > of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of the Eastern horizon> > at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so important> > that the Greeks called it the "horoscopus" from which we get horoscope.> > Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet it is> > not a physical planet.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there chart> > readings whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are > > practically the only astrologers in India who do this. When I have to do> > special Prasnas involving abhicara (black magic) I also integrate Mandi > > into the reading, it can't be done with out it. (Stay tune for an > > upcoming special report about a case of Vedic Astrology and Black Magic> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > in the Far North.)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the> > astrologers speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With Krsnan> > Potti it was a little easier because he new Pidgin English, but most of> > our communication about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a Sanskrit> > Pandit but as long as we were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I was at> > home. Another difficulty is that prasna as practiced in Kerala is> > tailor fit to the culture and society of the land. It would be> > diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick in a> > country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles on> > the altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be> > adapted to each different country.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > NADI GRANTHAS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started all> > of this, the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu Samhita> > as mentioned in Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is that> > the Brghu Samhita (BS) is only one of a whole genre of astrological > > literature called Nadi Granthas. In Sanskrit the word Nadi means river, > > blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and the subtle meridians that go > > through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna Nadis that are > > mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga Sastras and Ayurveda > > mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In any case the > > idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it water, > > blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi Granthas, > > nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In the > > above case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think that> > Nadi refers to a measure of time.)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas, for> > the devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the> > Saptarishis who became prajapatis. They created devas, humans, asuras,> > etc. as well as other Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the> > Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they know past, present and future. And they> > have transmitted their knowledge and guidance to us via these Nadi> > Granthas.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > [A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of the> > subject, is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with> > predictions given. You go to the reader, he calculates your chart and> > then finds a matching one in his collection and reads out the> > predictions. ]> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored it.> > The format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the Rishi> > and his disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the> > dialog is between Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in S.> > India Brghu Samhita is called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An> > exception to this is the Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of the> > Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya, Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and> > Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a horoscope and discuss it, sometimes> > they argue over the outcome (especially the last two rishis) at which> > time they submit to Parvati as the referee.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the two> > just mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka> > Nadi(supposedly by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi,> > Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi etc. I have even heard of a Ravana Nadi.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > BRGHU SAMHITA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was> > mortified that he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a> > prayaschitta he created the BS. In the readings he always advises the> > person, I am told by authorities, that in order to overcome his> > difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to Visnu such as> > the cow.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that "before> > you make the living entities I will make their horoscopes." I have heard> > from authorities that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000 charts.> > Well, you may ask, this certainly falls way short of the total> > population of India what to speak of the planet. Brghu was very> > intelligent, he only created the charts of those who would consult him> > not those who would not. So the total number of charts need not approach> > the total number of people. Of these charts many have been destroyed by> > invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of India.> > It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is> > doubtful that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to have> > the "real" Brghu Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma> > Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur, Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my> > astrology teacher in Bangalore had a portion of the Brghu Samhita> > > > which he used extensively.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > METHOD OF CALCULATION> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By> > studying them one can see the different sources that the Parasara system> > is derived from. The difference in systems can be radical. For example> > the Kala Chandra Nadi and Druva Nadi and few others use what is known as> > the Nadi amsa. This is a very minute division of each sign of the> > zodiac. Those of you who are a little familiar with astrology have heard> > of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the sign is divided into 9,> > 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given Shodasvargas or 16> > different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But in Nadi> > Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is assigned> > a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus each> > division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute> > considering that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4> > minutes of time. Thus 1 amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1> > > > vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and all> > the planets are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between Brghu> > and Siva's vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and> > predictions are based totally on transits. In some Nadis not only are> > planets considered but certain lines on the palm or bodily features are> > taken into account in order to determine the correct chart to read. In> > some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in full, in others> > little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > NOT ALWAYS CORRECT> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high reputation> > for uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to> > their reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be incompetent.> > They may not have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good to> > begin with, in other words the author of the Nadi wasn't so competent.> > There is the language barrier. And the Nadi readers are cheaters.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the> > Astrological Journals. The complaint is often made that while a> > particular Nadi may be very accurate about the past and present it fails> > miserably for the future. My astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan Potti,> > told me that he had visited many Nadi readers in his life time but found> > most unsatisfactory when it came to predicting the future. He told me> > that the best one he had come across was a Vasista Nadi in Tanjore,> > which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the future.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis: Brghu> > Samhita, Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology> > teacher in Bangalore to check if I was a worthy student. The reading was> > remarkably accurate giving dates for operations, accidents, progress in> > life etc. And so far the predictions have come true also. The Kala> > Chandra Nadi was also interesting but not quite as accurate as the Brghu> > reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was accurate in some places and> > confirmed what other readings had said, it was not so accurate about the> > future. Of the three one said that I would definitely marry, one said> > that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could go either> > way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few years> > before I said who was correct.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also> > important. The man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate astrologer> > in his own right, the Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi least> > qualified having just inherited it from his deceased father. (These> > nadis are kept in the families for generations. )> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a reading> > from him way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old palm> > leaf manuscripts which had been in their family for over 800 years they> > said. But still I was not so thrilled with the reading. I have had much> > better readings from ordinary astrologers. It is a mistake to think that> > Nadi readings are always better than the reading of a good astrologer.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit> > between your chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this I> > mean the charts in his possession may not be exactly the same as yours.> > Perhaps one planet is different in sign or navamsa. And the reading may> > also go off if the reader is not so good as an astrologer himself, or he> > may be trying to flatter you.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is> > improperly translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate Nadi> > the lipi (script) that is used is often some archaic variety that only> > trained persons can read. For example Granta lipi is a specially> > designed set of Tamil letters used to render Sanskrit. (Just as we use> > Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So first the Reader> > translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other language,> > into the local language. That is because most don't know English. Then> > some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular jargon of> > the Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the> > Reader says into English. As you can see there are plenty of places> > where mistakes can be made even if the Reader is honest and has in his> > possession a real Nadi. But the biggest cause of bad readings is> > cheating.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > CHEATING> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some fame> > or value, in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi Granthas> > and out and out cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the> > cheating is done but I will only mention a few here.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in order> > to find your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have, what is> > your mother's name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also> > examine your palm for special lines or look for marks on your body. The> > Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow) will measure your shadow, and use this as a> > reference! Anyway using this information they try to locate your actual> > chart.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you give> > them either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure that> > they have enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart, after> > sometime they come back saying they can't find it now, please come back> > tomorrow. When you come back the next day they again look for your chart> > and after a while they announce that they have found it. When they begin> > to read your chart you are amazed how so many details of your life are> > contained in the reading. Convinced about what they have said so far you> > ask them to continue and they go on reading about your future. Perhaps> > it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming good> > fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna or> > buy some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > What is done is that they take the information that you have given> > to them and weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be> > creative, suppose your mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible if> > they were to actually give out that your mothers name is Rose. How could> > that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book? What they will do is say that your> > mother's name is Puspa because she is named after a flower. This is> > believable. Some really creative con artists have been known (when a lot> > of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make calls to your> > area to get even more information and weave it into the story they are> > creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said they> > put in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging chemicals> > to make the paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is. Many> > people are fooled this way.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi> > readings, in particular the Bhrgu Samhita.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had> > several years back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu Sastris> > there. He and his party visited several readers. Some were honest, they> > just admitted that they didn't have his chart available.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came back> > another day, and the postman delivered another letter from Indira> > Gandhi. On inquiry they found out that the postman was hired to deliver> > fake letters from Indira Gandhi whenever "marks" were with the> > astrologer in order to convince the "marks" how good he was.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house> > talking to the astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call of> > nature, so he got up and went towards the back of the house. There he> > saw a man apply aging chemicals to a new horoscope thus catching him in> > the act of forging a Brghu reading.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an experience> > with the Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu> > visited a well known Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader. Woman> > astrologers are quite rare in India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader is> > even rarer. There is probably only one such reader. Gauranga Prabhu told> > me that he couldn't remember her name but he was told by some x-devotees> > (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same lady Bhrgu reader had> > visited the USA in recent years.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years and> > met many astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was> > disgusted by his experience with her. He first of all complained that> > they make a big show on the first day and asked him all kinds of> > questions about his family and life in general. Then they told him to> > come back the next day for his reading because it would take some time> > to find his chart.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would be> > impressing him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming to> > see them, that his wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's name> > with an 'R', etc. All stuff that Gauranga had told them the day before.> > (They could figure out the day by themselves.) The rest of the reading> > (which he said was unimpressive) was translated by the woman's son,> > written down and given to Gauranga. That was over 5 years ago. In that> > length of time he has looked over the predictions and not seen any come> > to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in sometime and> > would check again.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would never> > consult with them again. He said that he has had much more insightful> > readings from other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked but> > perhaps that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and is> > not experienced in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually got a> > good reading. Some one would have to check with Drew to find out why he> > thought it was so good.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more> > information on his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > MAYAVADIS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely are> > mayavadis. I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in> > India, an experienced devotee told me something I will never forget. "If> > you scratch an Indian long enough they will come up mayavadi." It is> > generally true especially for astrologers. You have to be very careful> > about what they say and how to take their advice. Just imagine how I> > felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would attain Sayujya Mukti. He> > thought he was telling me the best thing that a spiritual aspirant could> > attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and my plain disgust> > at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a devotee.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the> > readings of even the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate, it> > would be foolish to make a very important decision based on what they> > say without getting a second opinion.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for years> > and the predictions have always come true then you are probably safe to> > go ahead. But even with the same reader another new person could not> > have the same confidence because the Nadi may not work for them as well> > if at all.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one> > devotee not to build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be correct,> > but how do we know? How much experience with that Sastri's predictions> > did the devotee have? My understanding was that it was the first time> > that the devotee had ever consulted that BS. It is conceivable that the> > Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have been wrong for the reasons> > that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it would have been> > advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been done to> > see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to offset> > difficulties.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against the> > misuse of astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an> > interesting passage that sheds light on the present situation of Bhrgu> > Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > " Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers. > > Srila Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a> > letter to Devamayi dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding astrology,> > you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers- -strictly> > avoid. Don't even see them. What is the use of seeing them?"...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ...I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the letter> > above. The history is that certain devotees were going to karmi> > astrologers and these astrologers by moon transits were telling the> > devotees when they should go out on sankirtana and when they should not.> > The net result was that they were putting the devotees completely on the> > mental platform. So she wrote Srila Prabhupada to see if he would agree> > with this practice as she thought it was a deviation to his> > instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an astrologer> > herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was wrong> > and Srila Prabhupada concurred".> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very> > careful about getting advice from persons whose spiritual antecedents> > and loyalties are unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada or> > the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others I> > doubt.)> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Remember, as I like to say; "Astrology is perfect; astrologers are> > not." In such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila> > Prabhupada, who I know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer of> > unknown spiritual loyalties.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the reasons> > that the powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of> > astrology in ISKCON. After this debacle who can blame them for casting a> > doubtful eye on astrologers. This is why I have been pushing for some> > sort of certification program to protect the devotees. In my> > recommendations for the qualifications of an astrologer I made several> > points, one of them being:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > "5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be detrimental> > to the spiritual life of his client."> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer> > discouraged a devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to> > spiritual guidelines given by our Guru Maharaja and should never have> > been allowed to happen. Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to> > ignore the advice of these two astrologers and stick tightly to Srila> > Prabhupada's directions.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other astrologers.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > INSTANT KARMA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate Nadi> > Grantas may misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was> > touring all over the USA giving readings and charging a lot of money.> > One day he fell dead as a door nail from a massive heart attack, he was> > only about 32 years old. The thought amongst astrologers is that he> > suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble purposes.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had> > anyone in ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > readings?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from> > Gujarat who was raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have> > personally met him, he promised to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but> > never did so. He kept giving excuses for not doing it. Once he even said> > that he did it but it was not the right time to read it etc. He seemed> > to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and that somehow this> > might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It seemed very> > strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever giving> > excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case after> > about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally gave> > up. So I can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings and> > is part of ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi Kanta> > Jain. Subanjaya Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an accomplished> > astrologer. However because of his heavy work load and delicate health I> > doubt that he or anyone in his family would do a full Bhrgu reading for> > anyone. I now realize that I was fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading that> > I did from his father.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your > > Homepage. http://in./> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil ji, a post cannot replace the knowledge of classics plus own

understanding plus knowledge gained from experience plus knowledge acquired from

Gurus and therefore post of the internet posts are incomplete.

Ruler of jataka and prasna isn't that different when it comes to fundamentals.

Lagna is the intelligence of the native in jataka and the intent of the prasna

in prasna. The karaka for the 8th house is Saturn. If the Lagna is under the

influence of the karaka, the prasna will show it. This is the logic.

The desire of the native [his goal] is seen from the 7th house. Anyway these are

very standard rules that we all know.

Yes, you are right depending on the type of prasna, the meaning of Saturn and

its karakattwa changes e.g. food, clothes, health etc.

I will not put it as guess work but awareness of all things a planet can stand

for in the domain of the prasna.

Also, one very important factor is the astrologer who cannot be ignored at all

and shows up in the chart as well.

Now a brain teaser - will he show up in the 12th house if the client visits the

astrologer and also when the astrologer visits the client? how will the

situation change?

 

 

 

, " Sunil "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> Dear satyabhamaJi

>

> Thanks for ur post

>

> i think u r post is incomplete

>

> any way with logic we can say maelfics in lagna in good for winning

> cases

>

> but even if saturn is sgnificater planet how we can say with Logic that

> the nativ will b cured ??I am asking Logic here

>

> prashna maarga says maelfics in Lagna is not good ,i dont know it ever

> said astrologer shud not proceed with readings other than in cases

> where we know (i mean atrologer seen tru devination ) - the intention

> of queriest is bad ,un ethical

>

> Say a wife came to ask abt welfare of her sick hubby and malefics

> influence Lagna ,then we must proceed with care and assess all the chart

> then only spell out good or bad results (if u read my post on one

> prashna

> b4 few days --i never wrote that malefics in rising lagna ,so the

> prashna is closed )

>

> even waht i can gather is malifics in certain prashna s it is good too

> ,sure depending on the nature of prashna

>

> dpending on prashna s the efect can b diffrnt ,say in Bhojan prashna

> sani may indicate bad /stale food ,and even plates made of Horns ,skins

> or even iron etc /even meat of big animals like buffalo etc will b

> served etc /even the cermony where food is givn may b some sradha

> ceremony /death rites etc

>

> in ornaments prashna sani influencing lagna may indicate neela ratna to

> iron

>

> in Vastra prashna sani may indicate even torned cloths /black etc

>

> same way we can consider other planets too

>

> more later

>

> prashna maarga says astrologer shud b OOHa poha padu ( a man who is

> expert in guess work )

>

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

>

>

>

> , " Satya "

> <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sunil ji,

> > First of all yes, I agree with you too. Commenting without complete

> knowledge of any branch of jyotish is not correct.

> > You have asked a very good question -

> > " in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the

> tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who

> did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on

> malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ?? "

> > If we refer to classics like Prasna Marga it clearly states that if in

> the prasna chart malefic influence in the Lagna, then the astrologer

> should not proceed with the reading. Various combination have been

> detailed on this in the classics.

> > However, my learning is a little different. At the moment of the

> pransa, the primary significator of the question should influence the

> Lagna to show success of the prasna.

> > " Will I get cured " ? is the question and Saturn rises in the Lagna then

> the one word answer is definitely yes.

> > " Will I win the court case " ? is the question and Mars rises in the

> Lagna then the one word answer is yes.

> > Malefics are as much part of creation as are Benefics and the subject

> is totally relative and this is the very reason that Parasara rishi

> refers to Naisargik and Tatkalin Sambandhas in verses 55,56 of Chapter 3

> of BPHS.

> >

> > , " Sunil "

> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear satyabhama JI

> > >

> > > sure ,here i agree with u ,one gets what he deserves

> > > even if it is astrologer or anything .

> > >

> > > I noticed this syamsuder dasa ever since i know he was sisya of

> > > Brahmashri Krishnan poti and i closly followed his many of writings

> too

> > > .so when i find such a post/messge just reposted in grp for others

> to

> > > see and judge .Otherwise i dont hav much inclination for his

> religious

> > > sentiments other than astro-writing .Even i dont agree what he wrote

> in

> > > post abt KP padhati ,in defence of his opinion he was saying that

> there

> > > is diffrnt dasa systems other than vimshottary ( as in KP they use

> star

> > > Lords etc )and that is too shallow argumnt .As KP uses Vimshottary

> dasa

> > > Only .

> > > Recently i find one gentle man rectified a child chart around 55

> minits

> > > backward ,as birth time not supporting some theories in the KP

> > > principles ,such Ppl ( i dont know why KP got such disciples ) r

> realy

> > > destroying KP system s tho i dont know much abt it .

> > >

> > > Even with Normal astrological rules such a disease for kid is

> viscible

> > > and this man mov birth time back to such a large time window ,that

> too

> > > without asking anything abt the details ( i mean how sure is Birth

> time

> > > etc )

> > >

> > > in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna

> the

> > > tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one

> who

> > > did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on

> > > malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??

> > >

> > > just a brain teaser

> > >

> > > rgrds sunil nair

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Satya "

> > > <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sunil ji, thank you for sharing this article. I believe that when

> > > someone very deeply associates with a religious organization,

> his/her

> > > views don't remain completely unbiased as is required to be a good

> > > jyotish. For example, it is very much possible that someone may not

> be

> > > required to build temples or invest money in religious institutions

> and

> > > by doing so, he/she may be depriving his/her family the necessities

> of

> > > life (just for example). However, if someone is biased by being part

> of

> > > a religious organization he/she according to Shyamsundar Dasa should

> > > advice otherwise to the client. Such an advice is a very unfair.

> Anyway,

> > > the astrologer we go to is also decided based on our karma and that

> is

> > > why in a prasna chart the jyotishi sits in the 12th house of the

> prasna

> > > chart.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , Sunil Nair

> > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > (Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > By Shyamasundara Das

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following

> question:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic

> > > astrological system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in

> > > this area? "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic

> astrology

> > > as well as some questionable and bogus schools.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava

> method

> > > of worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as

> well

> > > as differences. The similarities exist because the source and

> purpose

> > > of the text are the same. The differences exist because the authors

> > > have their own personal slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > PARASARA

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India

> > > today is that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets

> of

> > > astrology presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora

> Sastra.

> > > But this book, composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a

> digest

> > > of the more complex systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas

> > > (Astrology, apparently, is not practiced in Satya yuga). We can only

> > > imagine how complex these other systems must have been if Parasara

> Hora

> > > is the simplified version for the less intelligent inhabitants of

> Kali

> > > Yuga.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex

> even

> > > to an experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about

> planetary

> > > periods called mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha

> based on

> > > a 120 year cycle. But this is only one of more than 40(!) different

> > > systems of mahadasha that Parasara gives in his BPHS.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > JAIMINI

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini

> system as

> > > explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple

> of

> > > Parasara. Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly

> and

> > > stark. This is most likely because the original text was written in

> > > sutra form, very pithy aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result

> > > there have been few commentaries or texts written about the Jaimini

> > > system. However if you study Jaimini you will see that it is a

> subset of

> > > Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few methods of Parasara and

> > > developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it will seem

> like an

> > > alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things such

> as

> > > ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > TAJIKA

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is

> basically a

> > > cross between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India

> by

> > > the Turks. It is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is

> > > somewhat popular in Northern India (which was ravaged by the

> Muslims)

> > > amongst the eclectic astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic

> > > tradition.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text

> and

> > > commentary on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a

> > > couple of translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna

> > > Tantra and their method of " yearly horoscope " called Varshaphala.

> This

> > > Varshaphala is nothing but the " solar return " that is used in

> western

> > > astrology with a few Vedic twists added. To better understand Tajika

> > > system one should study the works of William Lilly (17th century

> English

> > > astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on Solar returns.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically

> unheard

> > > of in South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully

> preserved

> > > from impurities such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without

> finding

> > > out its antecedents, at least one well known astrologer has

> introduced

> > > Tajika into ISKCON. This is the danger of mimicking what ever Hindus

> do

> > > and assuming it is Vedic. You have to research and dig for the

> truth.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into

> > > ISKCON as a way to " Strengthen your karmas... " A friend of mine

> asked

> > > the same astrologer about why he prescribed gems. This is what my

> > > friend told me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is

> sure it

> > > is bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them. "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept

> their

> > > philosophy also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox

> populi

> > > as our standard for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will

> get

> > > back to gems later. I have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami

> about

> > > Prabhupada and gems, that he said I could share with you. This will

> be a

> > > starting point for a deeper look into the relationship between gems,

> > > astrology and remedial measures. So keep posted.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system

> of

> > > astrology which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a

> minimal

> > > understanding of Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika

> has

> > > deviated from Parasara. As B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika

> system

> > > " ...a definite departure from the canons of Parasara... "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the

> give

> > > away clue is that they advertise " yearly readings. " Vedic astrology

> is

> > > also capable of doing yearly readings, or readings for any length

> of

> > > time. But the " yearly reading " is a Tajika specialty. If you are

> not

> > > certain whether the yearly reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how

> the

> > > astrologer bases the reading. If he answers that it is based on the

> sun

> > > returning to the same position as it was at the time of your birth,

> then

> > > that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the western " Solar

> Return "

> > > method.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like

> the

> > > fact that it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not

> very

> > > effective. Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > (Another thing that some bogus " Vedic " astrologers do, is to use

> > > Neptune, Uranus and Pluto.)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti,

> has

> > > attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti

> > > Paddhati. This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with

> a

> > > few twists. First of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari

> mahadasha

> > > as a method for planetary directions. Then on the basis of the

> > > rulerships of the nakshatras based on the Vimshottari method he

> created

> > > his system. He also adopted the Placidius house system from the

> West.

> > > This is an uneven house system, and the first house begins from the

> > > lagna point.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious

> > > defects such as assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain

> planets.

> > > This rulership only applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others.

> For

> > > example, astrologers in East India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer

> ashtottari

> > > dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are

> ruled

> > > differently and none are assigned to Ketu. Aside from this the KP

> > > system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very few books have

> been

> > > written on this system, only the ones by the creator himself. I

> have

> > > all the books and tried to understand them but was not satisfied. I

> > > didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my

> astrology

> > > teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came

> up

> > > negative so I dropped it.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a

> > > magazine " Yoga and Arishta. " I wouldn't recommend anyone to get

> > > entangled in this system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H.

> > > Bhanu Swami is partial to this system.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > KERALA SCHOOL

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is

> a

> > > highly note worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as

> devoted

> > > to astrology as is Kerala. Other parts of India have their great

> > > astrologers who are second to none. But it is generally recognized

> that

> > > S. India has much better astrologers than N. India. This is

> considered

> > > to be a result of N. India suffering grievously under the hands of

> the

> > > Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir used to be a great seat

> of

> > > Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim. Libraries where burned

> > > wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk would go

> " Tiger "

> > > hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from the

> > > Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional

> learning

> > > in N. India had setbacks.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the

> North

> > > so that Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic

> > > astrology is also thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S.

> > > India, Kerala has a very high reputation for astrology. It would be

> > > difficult to say which locale had the best astrologers, but

> definitely

> > > Kerala would be a top contender.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality

> > > associated with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of

> course

> > > there are very good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology

> > > teacher being among the best. The difference is that in Kerala every

> one

> > > is expected to know Prasna, while in other parts of S. India many

> > > astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N. India I didn't meet any

> > > astrologers who knew prasna.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala,

> besides

> > > using the classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to

> a

> > > great extent. There utilization is different from what you might

> > > expect. I will give you an example.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology

> > > teacher, Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of

> > > Kerala) and author of many astrology books in Malayalam. An

> > > Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very complex affair. Several of the

> most

> > > learned astrologers are invited to sit together and do Prasna.

> Since it

> > > is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will be at a temple and

> > > concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In important

> > > prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the

> > > possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a

> second

> > > opinion in such important matters. Of course there is no value in

> > > getting a second opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must

> also

> > > be pandits. In any case Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these

> > > Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was impressed to see that he was

> almost

> > > always made the head astrologer. It improved my confidence in him

> as a

> > > > > teacher.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole

> > > day. What goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower

> > > because everything gets read. For example, once, as the Prasna was

> > > being setup a man moved the ghee lamp 3 times from one place to

> another

> > > before finally setting it down. One astrologer immediately announced

> > > that the deity had been in three different locations before its

> present

> > > resting place. When inquiry was made into the history of the temple

> > > this was confirmed.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is

> > > performed etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the

> > > astrologers took the pan leaves and began to examine the leaves in

> the

> > > order they were given to him. There were 5 leaves, so this

> represented

> > > the first 5 houses of the prasna kundali (houses will have different

> > > meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on the size and quality of

> each

> > > leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each house. Amazingly the

> > > temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind boggling.

> This

> > > kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something

> like

> > > this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how

> > > Krsna is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things,

> > > which have non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of

> all

> > > the prasnas I attended, a practice that I continue today. This is

> > > something I would recommend to any astrologer, student or

> > > > > professional.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara

> (Kerala) is

> > > that they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be

> the

> > > son of Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is

> > > determined according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule

> used

> > > by Malabar astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from

> > > Sunday onward, Mandi will correspond to the degree rising at the end

> of

> > > 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2 ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun

> > > rises at 6:00 AM or in other words provided that the length of day

> and

> > > night are equal. If unequal, then a proportional value must be

> taken.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the

> > > rising degree at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis

> > > respectively after sunset from Sunday onwards. This rule applies

> for a

> > > night of 12 hours duration. Alterations are made for proportional

> > > values as in the case of days.(A ghati = 24 minutes, 1 day = 60

> > > ghatis.)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the

> Sun,

> > > Moon or Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some

> point

> > > in the zodiac determined by a particular time of day or night be

> given

> > > the dignity of a planet?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses

> > > " planets. " In Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which

> implies a

> > > source of power and ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The

> > > word for planet is loka; a different entity altogether. This is why

> > > Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th canto, to take shelter of " Krsna

> > > graha. " Not that he thought that Krsna is a " planet, " but that Krsna

> is

> > > the Supreme source of power, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its

> calculations.

> > > Some are esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and

> > > Upa-grahas like Dhuma, Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by

> Parasara).

> > > Others like the Lagna, Rahu and Ketu we don't even question, but

> they

> > > are definitely non-physical, but none the less powerful grahas.

> Rahu

> > > and Ketu are points that lie on the line of intersection of the

> planes

> > > of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of the Eastern

> horizon

> > > at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so important

> > > that the Greeks called it the " horoscopus " from which we get

> horoscope.

> > > Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet

> it is

> > > not a physical planet.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there

> chart

> > > readings whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are

> > > practically the only astrologers in India who do this. When I have

> to do

> > > special Prasnas involving abhicara (black magic) I also integrate

> Mandi

> > > into the reading, it can't be done with out it. (Stay tune for an

> > > upcoming special report about a case of Vedic Astrology and Black

> Magic

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > in the Far North.)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the

> > > astrologers speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With

> Krsnan

> > > Potti it was a little easier because he new Pidgin English, but

> most of

> > > our communication about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a

> Sanskrit

> > > Pandit but as long as we were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I

> was at

> > > home. Another difficulty is that prasna as practiced in Kerala is

> > > tailor fit to the culture and society of the land. It would be

> > > diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick in a

> > > country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles

> on

> > > the altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be

> > > adapted to each different country.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > NADI GRANTHAS

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started

> all

> > > of this, the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu

> Samhita

> > > as mentioned in Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is

> that

> > > the Brghu Samhita (BS) is only one of a whole genre of astrological

> > > literature called Nadi Granthas. In Sanskrit the word Nadi means

> river,

> > > blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and the subtle meridians that

> go

> > > through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna Nadis that

> are

> > > mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga Sastras and

> Ayurveda

> > > mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In any case

> the

> > > idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it water,

> > > blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi

> Granthas,

> > > nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In

> the

> > > above case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think

> that

> > > Nadi refers to a measure of time.)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas,

> for

> > > the devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the

> > > Saptarishis who became prajapatis. They created devas, humans,

> asuras,

> > > etc. as well as other Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the

> > > Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they know past, present and future. And

> they

> > > have transmitted their knowledge and guidance to us via these Nadi

> > > Granthas.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of

> the

> > > subject, is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with

> > > predictions given. You go to the reader, he calculates your chart

> and

> > > then finds a matching one in his collection and reads out the

> > > predictions. ]

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored

> it.

> > > The format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the

> Rishi

> > > and his disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the

> > > dialog is between Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in

> S.

> > > India Brghu Samhita is called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An

> > > exception to this is the Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of

> the

> > > Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya, Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and

> > > Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a horoscope and discuss it,

> sometimes

> > > they argue over the outcome (especially the last two rishis) at

> which

> > > time they submit to Parvati as the referee.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the

> two

> > > just mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka

> > > Nadi(supposedly by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi,

> > > Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi etc. I have even heard of a Ravana

> Nadi.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > BRGHU SAMHITA

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was

> > > mortified that he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a

> > > prayaschitta he created the BS. In the readings he always advises

> the

> > > person, I am told by authorities, that in order to overcome his

> > > difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to Visnu such

> as

> > > the cow.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that

> " before

> > > you make the living entities I will make their horoscopes. " I have

> heard

> > > from authorities that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000

> charts.

> > > Well, you may ask, this certainly falls way short of the total

> > > population of India what to speak of the planet. Brghu was very

> > > intelligent, he only created the charts of those who would consult

> him

> > > not those who would not. So the total number of charts need not

> approach

> > > the total number of people. Of these charts many have been destroyed

> by

> > > invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of

> India.

> > > It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is

> > > doubtful that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to

> have

> > > the " real " Brghu Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma

> > > Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur, Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my

> > > astrology teacher in Bangalore had a portion of the Brghu Samhita

> > > > > which he used extensively.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > METHOD OF CALCULATION

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By

> > > studying them one can see the different sources that the Parasara

> system

> > > is derived from. The difference in systems can be radical. For

> example

> > > the Kala Chandra Nadi and Druva Nadi and few others use what is

> known as

> > > the Nadi amsa. This is a very minute division of each sign of the

> > > zodiac. Those of you who are a little familiar with astrology have

> heard

> > > of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the sign is divided into

> 9,

> > > 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given Shodasvargas or 16

> > > different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But in

> Nadi

> > > Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is

> assigned

> > > a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus

> each

> > > division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute

> > > considering that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4

> > > minutes of time. Thus 1 amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1

> > > > > vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and

> all

> > > the planets are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between

> Brghu

> > > and Siva's vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and

> > > predictions are based totally on transits. In some Nadis not only

> are

> > > planets considered but certain lines on the palm or bodily features

> are

> > > taken into account in order to determine the correct chart to read.

> In

> > > some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in full, in others

> > > little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > NOT ALWAYS CORRECT

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high

> reputation

> > > for uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to

> > > their reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be

> incompetent.

> > > They may not have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good

> to

> > > begin with, in other words the author of the Nadi wasn't so

> competent.

> > > There is the language barrier. And the Nadi readers are cheaters.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the

> > > Astrological Journals. The complaint is often made that while a

> > > particular Nadi may be very accurate about the past and present it

> fails

> > > miserably for the future. My astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan

> Potti,

> > > told me that he had visited many Nadi readers in his life time but

> found

> > > most unsatisfactory when it came to predicting the future. He told

> me

> > > that the best one he had come across was a Vasista Nadi in Tanjore,

> > > which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the future.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis:

> Brghu

> > > Samhita, Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology

> > > teacher in Bangalore to check if I was a worthy student. The reading

> was

> > > remarkably accurate giving dates for operations, accidents, progress

> in

> > > life etc. And so far the predictions have come true also. The Kala

> > > Chandra Nadi was also interesting but not quite as accurate as the

> Brghu

> > > reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was accurate in some places

> and

> > > confirmed what other readings had said, it was not so accurate about

> the

> > > future. Of the three one said that I would definitely marry, one

> said

> > > that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could go

> either

> > > way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few

> years

> > > before I said who was correct.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also

> > > important. The man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate

> astrologer

> > > in his own right, the Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi

> least

> > > qualified having just inherited it from his deceased father. (These

> > > nadis are kept in the families for generations. )

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a

> reading

> > > from him way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old

> palm

> > > leaf manuscripts which had been in their family for over 800 years

> they

> > > said. But still I was not so thrilled with the reading. I have had

> much

> > > better readings from ordinary astrologers. It is a mistake to think

> that

> > > Nadi readings are always better than the reading of a good

> astrologer.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit

> > > between your chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this

> I

> > > mean the charts in his possession may not be exactly the same as

> yours.

> > > Perhaps one planet is different in sign or navamsa. And the reading

> may

> > > also go off if the reader is not so good as an astrologer himself,

> or he

> > > may be trying to flatter you.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is

> > > improperly translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate

> Nadi

> > > the lipi (script) that is used is often some archaic variety that

> only

> > > trained persons can read. For example Granta lipi is a specially

> > > designed set of Tamil letters used to render Sanskrit. (Just as we

> use

> > > Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So first the Reader

> > > translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other

> language,

> > > into the local language. That is because most don't know English.

> Then

> > > some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular

> jargon of

> > > the Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the

> > > Reader says into English. As you can see there are plenty of places

> > > where mistakes can be made even if the Reader is honest and has in

> his

> > > possession a real Nadi. But the biggest cause of bad readings is

> > > cheating.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > CHEATING

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some

> fame

> > > or value, in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi

> Granthas

> > > and out and out cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the

> > > cheating is done but I will only mention a few here.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in

> order

> > > to find your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have,

> what is

> > > your mother's name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also

> > > examine your palm for special lines or look for marks on your body.

> The

> > > Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow) will measure your shadow, and use this

> as a

> > > reference! Anyway using this information they try to locate your

> actual

> > > chart.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you

> give

> > > them either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure

> that

> > > they have enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart,

> after

> > > sometime they come back saying they can't find it now, please come

> back

> > > tomorrow. When you come back the next day they again look for your

> chart

> > > and after a while they announce that they have found it. When they

> begin

> > > to read your chart you are amazed how so many details of your life

> are

> > > contained in the reading. Convinced about what they have said so far

> you

> > > ask them to continue and they go on reading about your future.

> Perhaps

> > > it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming good

> > > fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna

> or

> > > buy some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What is done is that they take the information that you have

> given

> > > to them and weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be

> > > creative, suppose your mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible

> if

> > > they were to actually give out that your mothers name is Rose. How

> could

> > > that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book? What they will do is say that

> your

> > > mother's name is Puspa because she is named after a flower. This is

> > > believable. Some really creative con artists have been known (when a

> lot

> > > of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make calls to

> your

> > > area to get even more information and weave it into the story they

> are

> > > creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said

> they

> > > put in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging

> chemicals

> > > to make the paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is.

> Many

> > > people are fooled this way.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi

> > > readings, in particular the Bhrgu Samhita.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had

> > > several years back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu

> Sastris

> > > there. He and his party visited several readers. Some were honest,

> they

> > > just admitted that they didn't have his chart available.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came

> back

> > > another day, and the postman delivered another letter from Indira

> > > Gandhi. On inquiry they found out that the postman was hired to

> deliver

> > > fake letters from Indira Gandhi whenever " marks " were with the

> > > astrologer in order to convince the " marks " how good he was.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house

> > > talking to the astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call

> of

> > > nature, so he got up and went towards the back of the house. There

> he

> > > saw a man apply aging chemicals to a new horoscope thus catching him

> in

> > > the act of forging a Brghu reading.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an

> experience

> > > with the Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu

> > > visited a well known Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader.

> Woman

> > > astrologers are quite rare in India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader

> is

> > > even rarer. There is probably only one such reader. Gauranga Prabhu

> told

> > > me that he couldn't remember her name but he was told by some

> x-devotees

> > > (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same lady Bhrgu reader

> had

> > > visited the USA in recent years.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years

> and

> > > met many astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was

> > > disgusted by his experience with her. He first of all complained

> that

> > > they make a big show on the first day and asked him all kinds of

> > > questions about his family and life in general. Then they told him

> to

> > > come back the next day for his reading because it would take some

> time

> > > to find his chart.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would

> be

> > > impressing him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming

> to

> > > see them, that his wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's

> name

> > > with an 'R', etc. All stuff that Gauranga had told them the day

> before.

> > > (They could figure out the day by themselves.) The rest of the

> reading

> > > (which he said was unimpressive) was translated by the woman's son,

> > > written down and given to Gauranga. That was over 5 years ago. In

> that

> > > length of time he has looked over the predictions and not seen any

> come

> > > to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in sometime

> and

> > > would check again.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would

> never

> > > consult with them again. He said that he has had much more

> insightful

> > > readings from other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked

> but

> > > perhaps that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and

> is

> > > not experienced in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually

> got a

> > > good reading. Some one would have to check with Drew to find out why

> he

> > > thought it was so good.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more

> > > information on his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > MAYAVADIS

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely

> are

> > > mayavadis. I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in

> > > India, an experienced devotee told me something I will never forget.

> " If

> > > you scratch an Indian long enough they will come up mayavadi. " It is

> > > generally true especially for astrologers. You have to be very

> careful

> > > about what they say and how to take their advice. Just imagine how I

> > > felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would attain Sayujya Mukti.

> He

> > > thought he was telling me the best thing that a spiritual aspirant

> could

> > > attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and my plain

> disgust

> > > at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a devotee.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the

> > > readings of even the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate,

> it

> > > would be foolish to make a very important decision based on what

> they

> > > say without getting a second opinion.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for

> years

> > > and the predictions have always come true then you are probably safe

> to

> > > go ahead. But even with the same reader another new person could not

> > > have the same confidence because the Nadi may not work for them as

> well

> > > if at all.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one

> > > devotee not to build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be

> correct,

> > > but how do we know? How much experience with that Sastri's

> predictions

> > > did the devotee have? My understanding was that it was the first

> time

> > > that the devotee had ever consulted that BS. It is conceivable that

> the

> > > Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have been wrong for the reasons

> > > that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it would have been

> > > advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been done

> to

> > > see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to

> offset

> > > difficulties.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against

> the

> > > misuse of astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an

> > > interesting passage that sheds light on the present situation of

> Bhrgu

> > > Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers.

> > > Srila Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a

> > > letter to Devamayi dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding

> astrology,

> > > you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers-

> -strictly

> > > avoid. Don't even see them. What is the use of seeing them? " ...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ...I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the

> letter

> > > above. The history is that certain devotees were going to karmi

> > > astrologers and these astrologers by moon transits were telling the

> > > devotees when they should go out on sankirtana and when they should

> not.

> > > The net result was that they were putting the devotees completely on

> the

> > > mental platform. So she wrote Srila Prabhupada to see if he would

> agree

> > > with this practice as she thought it was a deviation to his

> > > instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an

> astrologer

> > > herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was

> wrong

> > > and Srila Prabhupada concurred " .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very

> > > careful about getting advice from persons whose spiritual

> antecedents

> > > and loyalties are unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada

> or

> > > the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others

> I

> > > doubt.)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Remember, as I like to say; " Astrology is perfect; astrologers

> are

> > > not. " In such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila

> > > Prabhupada, who I know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer

> of

> > > unknown spiritual loyalties.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the

> reasons

> > > that the powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of

> > > astrology in ISKCON. After this debacle who can blame them for

> casting a

> > > doubtful eye on astrologers. This is why I have been pushing for

> some

> > > sort of certification program to protect the devotees. In my

> > > recommendations for the qualifications of an astrologer I made

> several

> > > points, one of them being:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " 5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be

> detrimental

> > > to the spiritual life of his client. "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer

> > > discouraged a devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to

> > > spiritual guidelines given by our Guru Maharaja and should never

> have

> > > been allowed to happen. Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to

> > > ignore the advice of these two astrologers and stick tightly to

> Srila

> > > Prabhupada's directions.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other

> astrologers.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > INSTANT KARMA

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate

> Nadi

> > > Grantas may misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was

> > > touring all over the USA giving readings and charging a lot of

> money.

> > > One day he fell dead as a door nail from a massive heart attack, he

> was

> > > only about 32 years old. The thought amongst astrologers is that he

> > > suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble purposes.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had

> > > anyone in ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > readings?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from

> > > Gujarat who was raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have

> > > personally met him, he promised to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but

> > > never did so. He kept giving excuses for not doing it. Once he even

> said

> > > that he did it but it was not the right time to read it etc. He

> seemed

> > > to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and that somehow

> this

> > > might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It seemed

> very

> > > strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever

> giving

> > > excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case

> after

> > > about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally

> gave

> > > up. So I can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings

> and

> > > is part of ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi

> Kanta

> > > Jain. Subanjaya Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an

> accomplished

> > > astrologer. However because of his heavy work load and delicate

> health I

> > > doubt that he or anyone in his family would do a full Bhrgu reading

> for

> > > anyone. I now realize that I was fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading

> that

> > > I did from his father.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your

> > > Homepage. http://in./

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear satyabhama Ji In both cases ( i mean cleint vists or astrologer vist cleints) Lagna is the queriest and it is where astrologer talks means he is in 12th House but if u hav diffrnt logic -u can explain it rgrds sunil nair , "Satya" <satyabhama_gupta_1980 wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji, a post cannot replace the knowledge of classics plus own understanding plus knowledge gained from experience plus knowledge acquired from Gurus and therefore post of the internet posts are incomplete. > Ruler of jataka and prasna isn't that different when it comes to fundamentals. Lagna is the intelligence of the native in jataka and the intent of the prasna in prasna. The karaka for the 8th house is Saturn. If the Lagna is under the influence of the karaka, the prasna will show it. This is the logic.> The desire of the native [his goal] is seen from the 7th house. Anyway these are very standard rules that we all know. > Yes, you are right depending on the type of prasna, the meaning of Saturn and its karakattwa changes e.g. food, clothes, health etc.> I will not put it as guess work but awareness of all things a planet can stand for in the domain of the prasna.> Also, one very important factor is the astrologer who cannot be ignored at all and shows up in the chart as well.> Now a brain teaser - will he show up in the 12th house if the client visits the astrologer and also when the astrologer visits the client? how will the situation change?> > > > , "Sunil" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear satyabhamaJi> > > > Thanks for ur post> > > > i think u r post is incomplete> > > > any way with logic we can say maelfics in lagna in good for winning> > cases> > > > but even if saturn is sgnificater planet how we can say with Logic that> > the nativ will b cured ??I am asking Logic here> > > > prashna maarga says maelfics in Lagna is not good ,i dont know it ever> > said astrologer shud not proceed with readings other than in cases> > where we know (i mean atrologer seen tru devination ) - the intention> > of queriest is bad ,un ethical> > > > Say a wife came to ask abt welfare of her sick hubby and malefics> > influence Lagna ,then we must proceed with care and assess all the chart> > then only spell out good or bad results (if u read my post on one> > prashna> > b4 few days --i never wrote that malefics in rising lagna ,so the> > prashna is closed )> > > > even waht i can gather is malifics in certain prashna s it is good too> > ,sure depending on the nature of prashna> > > > dpending on prashna s the efect can b diffrnt ,say in Bhojan prashna> > sani may indicate bad /stale food ,and even plates made of Horns ,skins> > or even iron etc /even meat of big animals like buffalo etc will b> > served etc /even the cermony where food is givn may b some sradha> > ceremony /death rites etc> > > > in ornaments prashna sani influencing lagna may indicate neela ratna to> > iron> > > > in Vastra prashna sani may indicate even torned cloths /black etc> > > > same way we can consider other planets too> > > > more later> > > > prashna maarga says astrologer shud b OOHa poha padu ( a man who is> > expert in guess work )> > > > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > > > > > , "Satya"> > <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sunil ji,> > > First of all yes, I agree with you too. Commenting without complete> > knowledge of any branch of jyotish is not correct.> > > You have asked a very good question -> > > "in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna the> > tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one who> > did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on> > malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??"> > > If we refer to classics like Prasna Marga it clearly states that if in> > the prasna chart malefic influence in the Lagna, then the astrologer> > should not proceed with the reading. Various combination have been> > detailed on this in the classics.> > > However, my learning is a little different. At the moment of the> > pransa, the primary significator of the question should influence the> > Lagna to show success of the prasna.> > > "Will I get cured"? is the question and Saturn rises in the Lagna then> > the one word answer is definitely yes.> > > "Will I win the court case"? is the question and Mars rises in the> > Lagna then the one word answer is yes.> > > Malefics are as much part of creation as are Benefics and the subject> > is totally relative and this is the very reason that Parasara rishi> > refers to Naisargik and Tatkalin Sambandhas in verses 55,56 of Chapter 3> > of BPHS.> > >> > > , "Sunil"> > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear satyabhama JI> > > >> > > > sure ,here i agree with u ,one gets what he deserves> > > > even if it is astrologer or anything .> > > >> > > > I noticed this syamsuder dasa ever since i know he was sisya of> > > > Brahmashri Krishnan poti and i closly followed his many of writings> > too> > > > .so when i find such a post/messge just reposted in grp for others> > to> > > > see and judge .Otherwise i dont hav much inclination for his> > religious> > > > sentiments other than astro-writing .Even i dont agree what he wrote> > in> > > > post abt KP padhati ,in defence of his opinion he was saying that> > there> > > > is diffrnt dasa systems other than vimshottary ( as in KP they use> > star> > > > Lords etc )and that is too shallow argumnt .As KP uses Vimshottary> > dasa> > > > Only .> > > > Recently i find one gentle man rectified a child chart around 55> > minits> > > > backward ,as birth time not supporting some theories in the KP> > > > principles ,such Ppl ( i dont know why KP got such disciples ) r> > realy> > > > destroying KP system s tho i dont know much abt it .> > > >> > > > Even with Normal astrological rules such a disease for kid is> > viscible> > > > and this man mov birth time back to such a large time window ,that> > too> > > > without asking anything abt the details ( i mean how sure is Birth> > time> > > > etc )> > > >> > > > in prashna chart astrologer sits in 12th House ,in temple prashna> > the> > > > tantri/cheif preist or who consecrated the idol of diety- (the one> > who> > > > did prana pratishta ) sits in 12th House so what is ur opinion on> > > > malefic influence in Lagna and 12th House in both prashna ??> > > >> > > > just a brain teaser> > > >> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Satya"> > > > <satyabhama_gupta_1980@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Sunil ji, thank you for sharing this article. I believe that when> > > > someone very deeply associates with a religious organization,> > his/her> > > > views don't remain completely unbiased as is required to be a good> > > > jyotish. For example, it is very much possible that someone may not> > be> > > > required to build temples or invest money in religious institutions> > and> > > > by doing so, he/she may be depriving his/her family the necessities> > of> > > > life (just for example). However, if someone is biased by being part> > of> > > > a religious organization he/she according to Shyamsundar Dasa should> > > > advice otherwise to the client. Such an advice is a very unfair.> > Anyway,> > > > the astrologer we go to is also decided based on our karma and that> > is> > > > why in a prasna chart the jyotishi sits in the 12th house of the> > prasna> > > > chart.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , Sunil Nair> > > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Â> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > (Vedanta Jyotish) Vedic Astrology> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Brghu Samhita and other schools of astrology> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > By Shyamasundara Das> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > www.ShyamasundaraDa sa.com> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Some time ago H.H. Bir Krishna Goswami asked the following> > question:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > "Where do Brighu readings fit in? Are they part of the Vedic> > > > astrological system? Do we have anyone in ISKCON who is qualified in> > > > this area?"> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > This brings up the subject of different schools of Vedic> > astrology> > > > as well as some questionable and bogus schools.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > If you were to do a study on pancaratrika agama (the vaisnava> > method> > > > of worship) you would find that there are lot of similarities as> > well> > > > as differences. The similarities exist because the source and> > purpose> > > > of the text are the same. The differences exist because the authors> > > > have their own personal slant. The same exists in Vedic astrology.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > PARASARA> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > By far the most prevalent school or system of astrology in India> > > > today is that of Parasara Muni. This school is based on the tenets> > of> > > > astrology presented by Parasara Muni in his Brhat Parasara Hora> > Sastra.> > > > But this book, composed just before the onset of Kali Yuga, is a> > digest> > > > of the more complex systems of the previous Treta and Dvapara Yugas> > > > (Astrology, apparently, is not practiced in Satya yuga). We can only> > > > imagine how complex these other systems must have been if Parasara> > Hora> > > > is the simplified version for the less intelligent inhabitants of> > Kali> > > > Yuga.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I say this sarcastically because Parasara Hora is quite complex> > even> > > > to an experienced astrologer. Most devotees have heard about> > planetary> > > > periods called mahadasha. This is usually Vimshottari Mahadasha> > based on> > > > a 120 year cycle. But this is only one of more than 40(!) different> > > > systems of mahadasha that Parasara gives in his BPHS.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > JAIMINI> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Another system, less popular than Parasara, is the Jaimini> > system as> > > > explained in the Jaimini Sutras of Jaimini Muni the grand disciple> > of> > > > Parasara. Compared to system of Parasara, Jaimini is rather ungainly> > and> > > > stark. This is most likely because the original text was written in> > > > sutra form, very pithy aphorisms, with no explanations. As a result> > > > there have been few commentaries or texts written about the Jaimini> > > > system. However if you study Jaimini you will see that it is a> > subset of> > > > Parasara system. Jaimini has taken a few methods of Parasara and> > > > developed them extensively. But to most astrologers it will seem> > like an> > > > alien system. I personally don't use it much except for things such> > as> > > > ayurdaya--determini ng the span of life.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > TAJIKA> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I have already touched upon the Tajika system, which is> > basically a> > > > cross between Vedic and Greco-Arabic astrology introduced into India> > by> > > > the Turks. It is decidedly wieghted on the Yavana side. Tajika is> > > > somewhat popular in Northern India (which was ravaged by the> > Muslims)> > > > amongst the eclectic astrologers who don't strictly follow Vedic> > > > tradition.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In the middle ages a Hindu astrologer, Nilakanta, wrote a text> > and> > > > commentary on this system called Tajika-Nilakanti. There have been a> > > > couple of translations into English of the Tajika system of Prasna> > > > Tantra and their method of "yearly horoscope" called Varshaphala.> > This> > > > Varshaphala is nothing but the "solar return" that is used in> > western> > > > astrology with a few Vedic twists added. To better understand Tajika> > > > system one should study the works of William Lilly (17th century> > English> > > > astrologer) for Prasna, and other Western texts on Solar returns.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Tajika system is hardly known in East India and practically> > unheard> > > > of in South India where Vedic traditions are more carefully> > preserved> > > > from impurities such as Tajika. It is unfortunate, that without> > finding> > > > out its antecedents, at least one well known astrologer has> > introduced> > > > Tajika into ISKCON. This is the danger of mimicking what ever Hindus> > do> > > > and assuming it is Vedic. You have to research and dig for the> > truth.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > This is the same way gems have been improperly introduced into> > > > ISKCON as a way to "Strengthen your karmas..." A friend of mine> > asked> > > > the same astrologer about why he prescribed gems. This is what my> > > > friend told me.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > "I've asked 'X' about his use of gems and he says that he is> > sure it> > > > is bonafide because so many astrologers in India use them."> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Practically all of them are mayavadis too. Should we accept> > their> > > > philosophy also? Since when did Prabhupada tell us to accept vox> > populi> > > > as our standard for determining behavior? Anyway I digress, I will> > get> > > > back to gems later. I have an interesting letter from Bhanu Swami> > about> > > > Prabhupada and gems, that he said I could share with you. This will> > be a> > > > starting point for a deeper look into the relationship between gems,> > > > astrology and remedial measures. So keep posted.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > We can take it, then, that Tajika is basically a foreign system> > of> > > > astrology which has a thin Vedic veneer. Any tyro with even a> > minimal> > > > understanding of Parasara system will quickly see how much Tajika> > has> > > > deviated from Parasara. As B.V. Raman has said about the Tajika> > system> > > > "...a definite departure from the canons of Parasara..."> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > How to tell if someone is using Tajika system? Generally the> > give> > > > away clue is that they advertise "yearly readings." Vedic astrology> > is> > > > also capable of doing yearly readings, or readings for any length> > of> > > > time. But the "yearly reading" is a Tajika specialty. If you are> > not> > > > certain whether the yearly reading is Vedic or Tajika find out how> > the> > > > astrologer bases the reading. If he answers that it is based on the> > sun> > > > returning to the same position as it was at the time of your birth,> > then> > > > that is a clear indication of Tajika. This the western "Solar> > Return"> > > > method.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I experimented with this system for a few years but didn't like> > the> > > > fact that it was foreign to Parasara. I also found that it was not> > very> > > > effective. Whatever is claimed for Tajika, Parasara could do better.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > (Another thing that some bogus "Vedic" astrologers do, is to use> > > > Neptune, Uranus and Pluto.)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > KRSNAMURTI PADDHATI> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In recent years an astrologer from Madras, the late Krsna Murti,> > has> > > > attempted to formulate his own system which he called the Krsnamurti> > > > Paddhati. This system is based primarily on the Parasara method with> > a> > > > few twists. First of all he assumes the primacy of Vimshottari> > mahadasha> > > > as a method for planetary directions. Then on the basis of the> > > > rulerships of the nakshatras based on the Vimshottari method he> > created> > > > his system. He also adopted the Placidius house system from the> > West.> > > > This is an uneven house system, and the first house begins from the> > > > lagna point.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Most scholarly astrologers reject this system. It has obvious> > > > defects such as assuming the nakshatras are ruled by certain> > planets.> > > > This rulership only applies in vimshottari mahadasha, not others.> > For> > > > example, astrologers in East India-Bengal, Assam etc., prefer> > ashtottari> > > > dasha, a cycle of 108 years. In ashtottari Mahadasha the stars are> > ruled> > > > differently and none are assigned to Ketu. Aside from this the KP> > > > system, as it is called, is very convoluted. Very few books have> > been> > > > written on this system, only the ones by the creator himself. I> > have> > > > all the books and tried to understand them but was not satisfied. I> > > > didn't want to leave the Parasara system. When I went to my> > astrology> > > > teacher and did prasna to see if I should study KP system it came> > up> > > > negative so I dropped it.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The KP system has a small following in S. India. They publish a> > > > magazine "Yoga and Arishta." I wouldn't recommend anyone to get> > > > entangled in this system. But to each his own. I believe that H.H.> > > > Bhanu Swami is partial to this system.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > KERALA SCHOOL> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Though there is no separate school of astrology in Kerala it is> > a> > > > highly note worthy place. Perhaps no other state in India is as> > devoted> > > > to astrology as is Kerala. Other parts of India have their great> > > > astrologers who are second to none. But it is generally recognized> > that> > > > S. India has much better astrologers than N. India. This is> > considered> > > > to be a result of N. India suffering grievously under the hands of> > the> > > > Muslims for 800 years. Consider that Kasmir used to be a great seat> > of> > > > Vedic learning, now it is completely Muslim. Libraries where burned> > > > wholesale in N. India. Aurangazeb and kings of his ilk would go> > "Tiger"> > > > hunting and come back with mountains of Brahmana threads from the> > > > Brahmanas who were killed. So it is no wonder that traditional> > learning> > > > in N. India had setbacks.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Comparatively speaking S. India was spared the horrors of the> > North> > > > so that Vedic studies are much more intact there. And thus Vedic> > > > astrology is also thriving here (no Tajika (- Of all places in S.> > > > India, Kerala has a very high reputation for astrology. It would be> > > > difficult to say which locale had the best astrologers, but> > definitely> > > > Kerala would be a top contender.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > What makes astrology in Kerala so unique is the mystical quality> > > > associated with it. They are definitely the masters of Prasna. Of> > course> > > > there are very good Prasna Sastris outside Kerala, my own astrology> > > > teacher being among the best. The difference is that in Kerala every> > one> > > > is expected to know Prasna, while in other parts of S. India many> > > > astrologers do not know Prasna. And in N. India I didn't meet any> > > > astrologers who knew prasna.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In doing Jataka (natal) or Prasna, astrologers in Kerala,> > besides> > > > using the classics like Parasara and Varahamihira utilize omens to> > a> > > > great extent. There utilization is different from what you might> > > > expect. I will give you an example.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I attended several Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas with my astrology> > > > teacher, Krsnan Potti, a Nambudri Brahmana (high caste Brahmanas of> > > > Kerala) and author of many astrology books in Malayalam. An> > > > Ashtamangala Divya Prasna is a very complex affair. Several of the> > most> > > > learned astrologers are invited to sit together and do Prasna.> > Since it> > > > is Divya Prasna, it means that the Prasna will be at a temple and> > > > concern the Deity and matters relating to the temple. In important> > > > prasnas like this many learned astrologers are gathered so that the> > > > possibility of mistakes are minimized. It is important to have a> > second> > > > opinion in such important matters. Of course there is no value in> > > > getting a second opinion from a fool, the other astrologers must> > also> > > > be pandits. In any case Krsnan Potti invited me to several of these> > > > Ashtamangala Divya Prasnas; I was impressed to see that he was> > almost> > > > always made the head astrologer. It improved my confidence in him> > as a> > > > > > teacher.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > These ADPs are very lengthy affairs and easily take up the whole> > > > day. What goes on at one of these readings is a real mind blower> > > > because everything gets read. For example, once, as the Prasna was> > > > being setup a man moved the ghee lamp 3 times from one place to> > another> > > > before finally setting it down. One astrologer immediately announced> > > > that the deity had been in three different locations before its> > present> > > > resting place. When inquiry was made into the history of the temple> > > > this was confirmed.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In the course of the prasna some offerings are made and puja is> > > > performed etc. One time some pan leaves were offered. One of the> > > > astrologers took the pan leaves and began to examine the leaves in> > the> > > > order they were given to him. There were 5 leaves, so this> > represented> > > > the first 5 houses of the prasna kundali (houses will have different> > > > meanings in AMD prasna). Then depending on the size and quality of> > each> > > > leaf he began to pronounce the effects of each house. Amazingly the> > > > temple custodians confirmed all that he said. It was mind boggling.> > This> > > > kind of thing would go on all day. When you experience something> > like> > > > this it is hard to deny the existence of God. You can easily see how> > > > Krsna is the Doer behind everything, even apparently trivial things,> > > > which have non-trivial meanings. I used to take detailed notes of> > all> > > > the prasnas I attended, a practice that I continue today. This is> > > > something I would recommend to any astrologer, student or> > > > > > professional.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Another unique feature about the astrologers of Malabara> > (Kerala) is> > > > that they fully use the Kala Vela--Mandi. Mandi is considered to be> > the> > > > son of Saturn and is highly malefic. A Kala Vela is a graha that is> > > > determined according to a certain time--kala of the day. The rule> > used> > > > by Malabar astrologers who follow Prasna Marga is as follows: from> > > > Sunday onward, Mandi will correspond to the degree rising at the end> > of> > > > 26, 22, 18, 14, 10, 6 and 2 ghatikas after sunrise. Provided the sun> > > > rises at 6:00 AM or in other words provided that the length of day> > and> > > > night are equal. If unequal, then a proportional value must be> > taken.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > During night times the position of Mandi will correspond to the> > > > rising degree at the end of 10, 6, 2, 26, 22, 18, and 14 ghatis> > > > respectively after sunset from Sunday onwards. This rule applies> > for a> > > > night of 12 hours duration. Alterations are made for proportional> > > > values as in the case of days.(A ghati = 24 minutes, 1 day = 60> > > > ghatis.)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > You will notice that Mandi is not a physical entity like the> > Sun,> > > > Moon or Mars the so-called planets of astrology. Why should some> > point> > > > in the zodiac determined by a particular time of day or night be> > given> > > > the dignity of a planet?> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The answer is that there is a misconception that astrology uses> > > > "planets." In Sanskrit the actual word is graha, a term which> > implies a> > > > source of power and ability to influence, hold or seize someone. The> > > > word for planet is loka; a different entity altogether. This is why> > > > Prahlada Maharaja prays, in the 7th canto, to take shelter of "Krsna> > > > graha." Not that he thought that Krsna is a "planet," but that Krsna> > is> > > > the Supreme source of power, etc.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Vedic astrology uses many non-physical grahas in its> > calculations.> > > > Some are esoteric like Mandi and Gullika (both Kala Velas) and> > > > Upa-grahas like Dhuma, Yamaghantaka, etc. (all mentioned by> > Parasara).> > > > Others like the Lagna, Rahu and Ketu we don't even question, but> > they> > > > are definitely non-physical, but none the less powerful grahas.> > Rahu> > > > and Ketu are points that lie on the line of intersection of the > > planes> > > > of the Sun and Moon. The Lagna is a projection of the Eastern > > horizon> > > > at the time in question onto the zodiac. This point is so important> > > > that the Greeks called it the "horoscopus" from which we get> > horoscope.> > > > Indeed, the Lagna is the most important part of the chart and yet> > it is> > > > not a physical planet.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The Malabar astrologers totally integrate Mandi into all there> > chart> > > > readings whether it be for Jataka, Prasna, or Muhurta. They are> > > > practically the only astrologers in India who do this. When I have> > to do> > > > special Prasnas involving abhicara (black magic) I also integrate> > Mandi> > > > into the reading, it can't be done with out it. (Stay tune for an> > > > upcoming special report about a case of Vedic Astrology and Black> > Magic> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > in the Far North.)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The difficulty with studying in Kerala is that so few of the> > > > astrologers speak English. I needed translators at the ADP. With> > Krsnan> > > > Potti it was a little easier because he new Pidgin English, but> > most of> > > > our communication about astrology was in Sanskrit. I'm not a> > Sanskrit> > > > Pandit but as long as we were discussing Astrological Sanskrit I> > was at> > > > home. Another difficulty is that prasna as practiced in Kerala is> > > > tailor fit to the culture and society of the land. It would be> > > > diffucult to read the results of the burning of a ghee wick in a> > > > country like America where even in the temples we burn wax candles> > on> > > > the altar instead of ghee wicks. Thus the methods would have to be> > > > adapted to each different country.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > NADI GRANTHAS> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Now we come to the subject matter of the question that started> > all> > > > of this, the Brghu Samhita. Most of you have heard of the Brghu> > Samhita> > > > as mentioned in Prabhupada's books. What few of you may know is> > that> > > > the Brghu Samhita (BS) is only one of a whole genre of astrological> > > > literature called Nadi Granthas. In Sanskrit the word Nadi means> > river,> > > > blood vessel, nerve, lymphatic tube, and the subtle meridians that> > go> > > > through the body such as the Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna Nadis that> > are> > > > mentioned in Pranayama and Svara Sastra. The yoga Sastras and> > Ayurveda> > > > mention that there are 72,000 such nadis in the body. In any case> > the> > > > idea behind nadi is that it is a conduit for something, be it water,> > > > blood, lymph, prana, electricity etc. In the case of the Nadi> > Granthas,> > > > nadi refers to a conduit of knowledge from a particular Rishi. In> > the> > > > above case, Brghu Rishi. (I should note that some scholars think> > that> > > > Nadi refers to a measure of time.)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The Rishis, we should remember, are superhuman, even superdevas,> > for> > > > the devas are born from the Rishis. From Brahma were created the> > > > Saptarishis who became prajapatis. They created devas, humans,> > asuras,> > > > etc. as well as other Rishis. Being extraordinarily intelligent the> > > > Rishis are tri-kala-jnas, they know past, present and future. And> > they> > > > have transmitted their knowledge and guidance to us via these Nadi> > > > Granthas.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > [A Nadi Grantha for those of you who absolutely know nothing of> > the> > > > subject, is a compilation of already calculated horoscopes with> > > > predictions given. You go to the reader, he calculates your chart> > and> > > > then finds a matching one in his collection and reads out the> > > > predictions. ]> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Each Nadi is unique in style depending on the Rishi who authored> > it.> > > > The format of the Nadi Grantha is generally a dialog between the> > Rishi> > > > and his disciple. For example in many versions of Brghu Samhita the> > > > dialog is between Brghu and his son Shukracarya. (For some reason in> > S.> > > > India Brghu Samhita is called the Shukra Nadi, I don't know why.) An> > > > exception to this is the Saptarishi Nadi which is a convocation of> > the> > > > Saptarishis: Atri, Agastya, Jayamuni, Songinar, Narada, Vashista and> > > > Visvamitra. These 7 sages take up a horoscope and discuss it,> > sometimes> > > > they argue over the outcome (especially the last two rishis) at> > which> > > > time they submit to Parvati as the referee.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > There are many Nadi Granthas extant in S. India. Aside from the> > two> > > > just mentioned there are the Kala Chandra Nadi, Vashista Nadi, Suka> > > > Nadi(supposedly by Sukadeva Goswami), Druva Nadi, Buddha Nadi,> > > > Brghu-Nandi Nadi, Bhargava Nadi etc. I have even heard of a Ravana> > Nadi.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > BRGHU SAMHITA> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Why was the Brghu Samhita created? Apparently Brghu Rishi was> > > > mortified that he had kicked Lord Visnu in the chest. So as a> > > > prayaschitta he created the BS. In the readings he always advises> > the> > > > person, I am told by authorities, that in order to overcome his> > > > difficulties he must worship Visnu, or objects sacred to Visnu such> > as> > > > the cow.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Brghu is supposed to have told his father Lord Brahma that> > "before> > > > you make the living entities I will make their horoscopes." I have> > heard> > > > from authorities that the full Brghu Samhita contains 30,000,000> > charts.> > > > Well, you may ask, this certainly falls way short of the total> > > > population of India what to speak of the planet. Brghu was very> > > > intelligent, he only created the charts of those who would consult> > him> > > > not those who would not. So the total number of charts need not> > approach> > > > the total number of people. Of these charts many have been destroyed> > by> > > > invaders. Also Brghu samhita is distributed in different parts of> > India.> > > > It is not known if any one place has the total collection, it is> > > > doubtful that it exists in any one place. Various centers claim to> > have> > > > the "real" Brghu Samhita. There are Bhrgu readers in Kheda-Brahma> > > > Gujarat, Benares, Jaipur, Hosairpur, Bombay, Calcutta, etc. Even my> > > > astrology teacher in Bangalore had a portion of the Brghu Samhita> > > > > > which he used extensively.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > METHOD OF CALCULATION> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The Nadi Grantas each have a different basis of calculation. By> > > > studying them one can see the different sources that the Parasara> > system> > > > is derived from. The difference in systems can be radical. For> > example> > > > the Kala Chandra Nadi and Druva Nadi and few others use what is> > known as> > > > the Nadi amsa. This is a very minute division of each sign of the> > > > zodiac. Those of you who are a little familiar with astrology have> > heard> > > > of Navamsa, Dasamsa, Vimsamsa, etc. Where the sign is divided into> > 9,> > > > 10, or 20 parts etc. Parasara Muni has given Shodasvargas or 16> > > > different amsa charts ranging with divisors from 1 to 60. But in> > Nadi> > > > Amsa each sign is divided into 150 parts and then each part is> > assigned> > > > a purva and uttara bhaga for an actual total of 300 divisions. Thus> > each> > > > division is only 6 minutes of arc in length! This is very minute> > > > considering that each degree of the ascendent takes an average of 4> > > > minutes of time. Thus 1 amsa would go by in 24 seconds (1> > > > > > vighati). This is very fine calculation indeed. The lagna and> > all> > > > the planets are placed in the Nadi Amsas and readings are given.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > By contrast, in the Brghu-Nandi Nadi (a conversation between> > Brghu> > > > and Siva's vahana, Nandi) the ascendant is not even given and> > > > predictions are based totally on transits. In some Nadis not only> > are> > > > planets considered but certain lines on the palm or bodily features> > are> > > > taken into account in order to determine the correct chart to read.> > In> > > > some Nadis the astrological reasons are explained in full, in others> > > > little is mentioned. It all depends on the author.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > NOT ALWAYS CORRECT> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The Nadi Grantas like the Brghu Samhita have a very high> > reputation> > > > for uncanny accuracy. But unfortunately they don't always live up to> > > > their reputations. The reasons are many. The Reader may be> > incompetent.> > > > They may not have your correct chart. The Nadi may not be very good> > to> > > > begin with, in other words the author of the Nadi wasn't so> > competent.> > > > There is the language barrier. And the Nadi readers are cheaters.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Nadis are well known among astrologers in India, especially> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > the South. The subject is often discussed in the pages of the> > > > Astrological Journals. The complaint is often made that while a> > > > particular Nadi may be very accurate about the past and present it> > fails> > > > miserably for the future. My astrology teacher in Kerala, Krsnan> > Potti,> > > > told me that he had visited many Nadi readers in his life time but> > found> > > > most unsatisfactory when it came to predicting the future. He told> > me> > > > that the best one he had come across was a Vasista Nadi in Tanjore,> > > > which he said has been 70% accurate in predicting the future.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I, personally have had readings from three different Nadis:> > Brghu> > > > Samhita, Shuka Nadi and Candra Kala Nadi. The first by my astrology> > > > teacher in Bangalore to check if I was a worthy student. The reading> > was> > > > remarkably accurate giving dates for operations, accidents, progress> > in> > > > life etc. And so far the predictions have come true also. The Kala> > > > Chandra Nadi was also interesting but not quite as accurate as the> > Brghu> > > > reading. Whereas the Shuka Nadi reading was accurate in some places> > and> > > > confirmed what other readings had said, it was not so accurate about> > the> > > > future. Of the three one said that I would definitely marry, one> > said> > > > that I would definitely not marry, and the other said it could go> > either> > > > way. So far I have not married yet, but I would want to wait a few> > years> > > > before I said who was correct.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > It should be kept in mind that the skill of the reader is also> > > > important. The man who read my Brghu chart was a consummate> > astrologer> > > > in his own right, the Candra Kala Nadi less so, and the Suka Nadi> > least> > > > qualified having just inherited it from his deceased father. (These> > > > nadis are kept in the families for generations. )> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I had visited the father of the Shuka Nadi reader and had a> > reading> > > > from him way back in 1981. His house was full of thousands of old> > palm> > > > leaf manuscripts which had been in their family for over 800 years> > they> > > > said. But still I was not so thrilled with the reading. I have had> > much> > > > better readings from ordinary astrologers. It is a mistake to think> > that> > > > Nadi readings are always better than the reading of a good> > astrologer.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Some times the cause of the poor reading is because of a bad fit> > > > between your chart and the charts that the Nadi reader has. By this> > I> > > > mean the charts in his possession may not be exactly the same as> > yours.> > > > Perhaps one planet is different in sign or navamsa. And the reading> > may> > > > also go off if the reader is not so good as an astrologer himself,> > or he> > > > may be trying to flatter you.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > A perfectly good reading could be totally spoiled if it is> > > > improperly translated. Remember that in the case of a legitimate> > Nadi> > > > the lipi (script) that is used is often some archaic variety that> > only> > > > trained persons can read. For example Granta lipi is a specially> > > > designed set of Tamil letters used to render Sanskrit. (Just as we> > use> > > > Latin letters with diacritics for Sanskrit.) So first the Reader> > > > translates from Sanskrit or Archaic Tamil, Telegu, or other> > language,> > > > into the local language. That is because most don't know English.> > Then> > > > some third party, who may not know astrology or the particular> > jargon of> > > > the Nadi, or who may be poor translators per se translates what the> > > > Reader says into English. As you can see there are plenty of places> > > > where mistakes can be made even if the Reader is honest and has in> > his> > > > possession a real Nadi. But the biggest cause of bad readings is> > > > cheating.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > CHEATING> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Just like everything else in the world that has achieved some> > fame> > > > or value, in the world of astrology there are counterfeit Nadi> > Granthas> > > > and out and out cheating. I have heard of various ways in which the> > > > cheating is done but I will only mention a few here.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Often in legitimate Nadis some questions need to be asked in> > order> > > > to find your palm leaf. They may ask how many brothers you have,> > what is> > > > your mother's name, if you have had an accident, etc. They may also> > > > examine your palm for special lines or look for marks on your body.> > The> > > > Chaya Sastri (Chaya--shadow) will measure your shadow, and use this> > as a> > > > reference! Anyway using this information they try to locate your> > actual> > > > chart.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > What bogus readers do is to gather all the information that you> > give> > > > them either by direct question or accidentally. When they figure> > that> > > > they have enough, they tell you they will try to find your chart,> > after> > > > sometime they come back saying they can't find it now, please come> > back> > > > tomorrow. When you come back the next day they again look for your> > chart> > > > and after a while they announce that they have found it. When they> > begin> > > > to read your chart you are amazed how so many details of your life> > are> > > > contained in the reading. Convinced about what they have said so far> > you> > > > ask them to continue and they go on reading about your future.> > Perhaps> > > > it is good and you happily pay them extra for your up coming good> > > > fortune. Perhaps it is dark and they convince you to do some yajna> > or> > > > buy some jewel to ward off the evil. But it is all bogus.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > What is done is that they take the information that you have> > given> > > > to them and weave it into some standard sloka poetry. They may be> > > > creative, suppose your mother's name is Rose, it would be incredible> > if> > > > they were to actually give out that your mothers name is Rose. How> > could> > > > that be in a Tamil or Sanskrit book? What they will do is say that> > your> > > > mother's name is Puspa because she is named after a flower. This is> > > > believable. Some really creative con artists have been known (when a> > lot> > > > of money is to be made) to get your phone number and make calls to> > your> > > > area to get even more information and weave it into the story they> > are> > > > creating about you. Then when the have decided on what will be said> > they> > > > put in on a palm leaf or paper and treat it with special aging> > chemicals> > > > to make the paper or palm leaf appear much older than it really is.> > Many> > > > people are fooled this way.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Now we shall give the experiences of two devotees with Nadi> > > > readings, in particular the Bhrgu Samhita.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > BAHUSIRA'S EXPERIENCE> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > My God brother Bahusira Prabhu told me of some experience he had> > > > several years back when he went to Hosairpura to visit the Bhrgu> > Sastris> > > > there. He and his party visited several readers. Some were honest,> > they> > > > just admitted that they didn't have his chart available.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Another was a definite crook. Bahushira said that while> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > they were busy talking to the astrologer a post man would> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > come in with a letter from Indira Gandhi, very impressive.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > But they began to suspect something was wrong when they came> > back> > > > another day, and the postman delivered another letter from Indira> > > > Gandhi. On inquiry they found out that the postman was hired to> > deliver> > > > fake letters from Indira Gandhi whenever "marks" were with the> > > > astrologer in order to convince the "marks" how good he was.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On a different occasion they were at some Bhrgu Sastri's house> > > > talking to the astrologer. Bahusira said he had to answer the call> > of> > > > nature, so he got up and went towards the back of the house. There> > he> > > > saw a man apply aging chemicals to a new horoscope thus catching him> > in> > > > the act of forging a Brghu reading.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > GAURANGA'S EXPERIENCE> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Another God brother, Gauranga Prabhu of Vancouver, had an> > experience> > > > with the Bhrgu readers of Hosairpura. In 1989 he and Ramesta Prabhu> > > > visited a well known Bhrgu reader in Hosairpura; a woman reader.> > Woman> > > > astrologers are quite rare in India and to find a woman Bhrgu reader> > is> > > > even rarer. There is probably only one such reader. Gauranga Prabhu> > told> > > > me that he couldn't remember her name but he was told by some> > x-devotees> > > > (Drew Lawrence-Dhuryodhan a Guru) that this same lady Bhrgu reader> > had> > > > visited the USA in recent years.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Anyway Gauranga Prabhu, who has lived in India for many years> > and> > > > met many astrologers in S. India, and other Nadi readers, etc., was> > > > disgusted by his experience with her. He first of all complained> > that> > > > they make a big show on the first day and asked him all kinds of> > > > questions about his family and life in general. Then they told him> > to> > > > come back the next day for his reading because it would take some> > time> > > > to find his chart.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In his reading the next day the Readers thought that they would> > be> > > > impressing him by announcing in the reading what day he was coming> > to> > > > see them, that his wife's name began with an 'M', his daughter's> > name> > > > with an 'R', etc. All stuff that Gauranga had told them the day> > before.> > > > (They could figure out the day by themselves.) The rest of the> > reading> > > > (which he said was unimpressive) was translated by the woman's son,> > > > written down and given to Gauranga. That was over 5 years ago. In> > that> > > > length of time he has looked over the predictions and not seen any> > come> > > > to pass. But he has said that he had not looked at them in sometime> > and> > > > would check again.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > He told me that he was not at all impressed by them and would> > never> > > > consult with them again. He said that he has had much more> > insightful> > > > readings from other astrologers, psychics, etc. over the years.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > He did say that Drew Lawrence had had a reading which Drew liked> > but> > > > perhaps that is because Drew has spent very little time in India and> > is> > > > not experienced in Indian ways. Or it could be because he actually> > got a> > > > good reading. Some one would have to check with Drew to find out why> > he> > > > thought it was so good.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Gauranga has allowed me to use his name so if anyone wants more> > > > information on his experience they can contact him in Vancouver.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > MAYAVADIS> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Even if you happen to get an authentic reader they most likely> > are> > > > mayavadis. I remember once when I was a new devotee and traveling in> > > > India, an experienced devotee told me something I will never forget.> > "If> > > > you scratch an Indian long enough they will come up mayavadi." It is> > > > generally true especially for astrologers. You have to be very> > careful> > > > about what they say and how to take their advice. Just imagine how I> > > > felt when one Nadi reader told me that I would attain Sayujya Mukti.> > He> > > > thought he was telling me the best thing that a spiritual aspirant> > could> > > > attain. He was puzzled by the sour look on my face and my plain> > disgust> > > > at the thought. Mayavadis can not understand the mind of a devotee.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Another point to consider is that, as I have pointed out the> > > > readings of even the best of the Nadis are not always 100% accurate,> > it> > > > would be foolish to make a very important decision based on what> > they> > > > say without getting a second opinion.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > An exception would be if you have consulted the same Nadi for> > years> > > > and the predictions have always come true then you are probably safe> > to> > > > go ahead. But even with the same reader another new person could not> > > > have the same confidence because the Nadi may not work for them as> > well> > > > if at all.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ASTROLOGY VS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE?> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I have recently heard that a Bhrgu Sastri strongly advised one> > > > devotee not to build a temple of Gaura-Nitai. The Sastri may be> > correct,> > > > but how do we know? How much experience with that Sastri's> > predictions> > > > did the devotee have? My understanding was that it was the first> > time> > > > that the devotee had ever consulted that BS. It is conceivable that> > the> > > > Bhrgu Sastri, even if genuine, could have been wrong for the reasons> > > > that I have mentioned before. In such a situation it would have been> > > > advisable to bring in a second opinion. Prasna could have been done> > to> > > > see if danger actually existed, or a suitable muhurta chosen to> > offset> > > > difficulties.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > It is situations like this that Srila Prabhupada spoke against> > the> > > > misuse of astrology. Recently Jagadishananda Prabhu posted an> > > > interesting passage that sheds light on the present situation of> > Bhrgu> > > > Sastri vs Gaura Nitai.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > " Of course this story applies to ordinary mundane astrologers.> > > > Srila Prabhupada once commented on these types of astrologers in a> > > > letter to Devamayi dasi 01-09-75. Srila Prabhupada: Regarding> > astrology,> > > > you should not listen to any of these so-called astrologers-> > -strictly> > > > avoid. Don't even see them. What is the use of seeing them?"...> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > ...I personally talked to Devamayi dasi recently about the> > letter> > > > above. The history is that certain devotees were going to karmi> > > > astrologers and these astrologers by moon transits were telling the> > > > devotees when they should go out on sankirtana and when they should> > not.> > > > The net result was that they were putting the devotees completely on> > the> > > > mental platform. So she wrote Srila Prabhupada to see if he would> > agree> > > > with this practice as she thought it was a deviation to his> > > > instructions. The interesting thing is that she is also an> > astrologer> > > > herself, but she thought that going to these karmi astrologers was> > wrong> > > > and Srila Prabhupada concurred".> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > When it comes to performing devotional service we must be very> > > > careful about getting advice from persons whose spiritual> > antecedents> > > > and loyalties are unknown. Who is our real guide? Srila Prabhupada> > or> > > > the Bhrgu Sastri. (I have no problem with Bhrgu Muni it's the others> > I> > > > doubt.)> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Remember, as I like to say; "Astrology is perfect; astrologers> > are> > > > not." In such a situation I would prefer to align myself with Srila> > > > Prabhupada, who I know and trust, rather than a fallible astrologer> > of> > > > unknown spiritual loyalties.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > At the beginning of this conference I asked what were the> > reasons> > > > that the powers that be have been slow to recognize the value of> > > > astrology in ISKCON. After this debacle who can blame them for> > casting a> > > > doubtful eye on astrologers. This is why I have been pushing for> > some> > > > sort of certification program to protect the devotees. In my> > > > recommendations for the qualifications of an astrologer I made> > several> > > > points, one of them being:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > "5 No astrologer should recommend any act which would be> > detrimental> > > > to the spiritual life of his client."> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > It seems to me that the above case, in which an astrologer> > > > discouraged a devotee from building a temple, is clearly contrary to> > > > spiritual guidelines given by our Guru Maharaja and should never> > have> > > > been allowed to happen. Fortunately the devotees had enough sense to> > > > ignore the advice of these two astrologers and stick tightly to> > Srila> > > > Prabhupada's directions.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I just hope that I wont get lumped in with these other> > astrologers.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > INSTANT KARMA> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I would like to mention that even persons who have legitimate> > Nadi> > > > Grantas may misuse them. I know of one man who had a Nadi, he was> > > > touring all over the USA giving readings and charging a lot of> > money.> > > > One day he fell dead as a door nail from a massive heart attack, he> > was> > > > only about 32 years old. The thought amongst astrologers is that he> > > > suffered a reaction for misusing the Sastra for ignoble purposes.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > In the last part of his question Bir Krsna Swami asked if we had> > > > anyone in ISKCON who was qualified to do Bhrgu> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > readings?> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Supposedly there is one devotee in Detroit an Indian boy from> > > > Gujarat who was raised, so he says, in a Bhrgu Ashrama. I have> > > > personally met him, he promised to do my chart via Bhrgu Samhita but> > > > never did so. He kept giving excuses for not doing it. Once he even> > said> > > > that he did it but it was not the right time to read it etc. He> > seemed> > > > to be disturbed by the fact that I knew astrology and that somehow> > this> > > > might affect the reading or that I wouldn't be satisfied. It seemed> > very> > > > strange to me that he would not do the reading and was forever> > giving> > > > excuses that I never heard before when I was in India. In any case> > after> > > > about two years of cajoling him to do a reading for me I finally> > gave> > > > up. So I can't say if he is actually able to do BS readings.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The only person who I know that is capable of doing BS readings> > and> > > > is part of ISKCON is the fourth son of my astrology teacher Sashi> > Kanta> > > > Jain. Subanjaya Prabhu is a disciple of JPS and is quite an> > accomplished> > > > astrologer. However because of his heavy work load and delicate> > health I> > > > doubt that he or anyone in his family would do a full Bhrgu reading> > for> > > > anyone. I now realize that I was fortunate to get the Bhrgu reading> > that> > > > I did from his father.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your > > > > Homepage. http://in./> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>