A chart from Parthian Netal Chart collection

April 20, 2010

Dear Harimalla ji, Devisingh ji and all, I am quoting a chart from the Parthian chart collection with an effort to understand the same below - But first to help you understand better a Indian and Parthian month names are tabulated below -

Indian

Sign name

Parthian sign name

Aries

: Hunlu

Taurus

: Guan

Gemini

: Masmas

Cancer

: Alla

Leo

: Aura

Virgo

: Absin

Libra

:

Rin

Scorpio

:

Girtab

Sagittarius

:

Pa

Capricon

:

Mas

Aquarius

:

Gu

Pisces

: Kunmes,Zibme

Indian Month

name

Parthian Month name

Chaitra

: Addaru

Vaishakh

: Nisannu

Jyaishtha

: Ajaru

Ashadha

: Simanu

Shravana

: Duuzu

Bhaadra or, Bhadrapad

: Abu

Ashwin

: Ulula

Kartik

: Tasritu

Agrahayana or, Margashirsha

: Arahsamna

Paush

: Kislimu

Magh

: Tebetu

Phalgun

: Sabatu

Quote (Translation as given by Rochberg): "Tebetu the 24th, in the last part of the night of the 25th, year 13th of Darius, the child was born. Kislimu, around the 15th, Mercury's first visibility in the east behind (east of) Gemini. Tebetu: (winter) solstice was on the 9th of Tebetu; last lunar visibility (0f the month) was on the 26th. Sabatu: Sabatu, dense clouds, around the 2nd, Mercury's last visibility in the east of Capricorn. The 14th of Sabatu, Venus's last visibility in the east in front (west) of Aquarius. (The year had) an intercalary Addaru. Tasritu the 22nd, Jupiter's (2nd) stationary point in Aquarius. Around the 2nd of Addaru, (Jupiter's) last visibility in Pisces. Duuzu the 30th, Saturn's first visibility in Cancer (it was) high and faint; around the 26th, (the ideal) first visibility. The 7th of Kislimu, first stationary point; Tebetu the 17th, 'opposition'. (The year had) an intercalary month Addaru". Sound's like some alien language? Natural. Let us try to understand it better in Indian terms."Magh the 24th, in the last part of the night of the 25th, year 13th of Darius, the child was born. Paush, around the 15th, Mercury's first visibility in the east of Gemini. Magh: solstice was on the 9th of Magh; last lunar visibility was on the 26th. Phalgun: Phalgun, dense clouds, around the 2nd, Mercury's last visibility in the east of Capricorn. The 14th of Phalgun, Venus's last visibility in the east in the west of Aquarius. (The year had) an intercalary Chaitra. Kartik (month) the 22nd (is), Jupiter's stationary point in Aquarius. Around the 2nd of Chaitra, (Jupiter's) last visibility in Pisces. Shravana the 30th, Saturn's first visibility in Cancer (it was) high and faint; around the 26th, (the ideal) first visibility. The 7th of Paush, first stationary point; Magh the 17th, 'opposition'. (The year had) an intercalary month Chaitra". Now elaborate bit more and let us try to understand it better -"Magh the 24th, in the last part of the night of the 25th, year 13th of Darius, the child was born. [DOB given. In the second part of the night between 24/25th of Magh in -410 BCE the child took birth] Paush, around the 15th, Mercury's first visibility in the east of Gemini. [The statement is true for -410 BCE] Magh: solstice was on the 9th of Magh; [This chart is being written after 9th of Magh, i.e. on 24th of Magh as stated earlier]last lunar visibility (Amavasi) is on the 26th. [26th of Magh is Amavasi. The birth took place two days before that - i.e. on 24th]Phalgun: Phalgun, dense clouds, around the 2nd, Mercury's last visibility in the east of Capricorn. [The statement is true for -410 BCE]The 14th of Phalgun, Venus's last visibility in the east in the west of Aquarius.[The statement is true for -410 BCE](The year had) an intercalary Chaitra. [The statement is true for -410 BCE]Kartik (month) the 22nd (is), Jupiter's stationary point in Aquarius. [Jupiter's entry to Aquarius was on this date, and he was there itself at the time of birth as well. i.e. Jupiter is in Aquarius]Around the 2nd of Chaitra, (Jupiter's) last visibility in Pisces. [Actually this statement should be about the entry of Jupiter into Pisces. i.e. Jupiter will move to Pisces only 3-4 months after the given date of birth. i.e. Jupiter is still in Aquarius]Shravana the 30th, Saturn's first visibility in Cancer (it was) high and faint; around the 26th, (the ideal) first visibility. [i.e. Saturn is in Cancer]The 7th of Paush, first stationary point; [Capricorn is the Lagna] Magh the 17th, 'opposition'. [Rahu-Ketu axis is in Aquarius-Leo](The year had) an intercalary month Chaitra.[This statement again, so that there is no confusion regarding the sign changing date of Jupiter]From the above we came to know that - 1) Sun is in Aquarius. 2) Tithi is Krishna Trayodasi (2 days before Amavasi). Thus we derive that Moon was in Capricorn. 3) Time of birth is second half of night and the Lagna is Capricorn 4) Jupiter is in Aquarius 5) Saturn is in Cancer A good enough description to locate a date and we conclude that the birth took place on 20th Jan -410 around 5 am. [user JHora to cast this chart and verify. I have used Surya-Siddhantic Ayanamsa as proposed by Chandrahari] It is well evident that the system under use was Siderial and not Tropical. Note: I invite your comments, and request you all to review the other charts given in that text and present your realizations. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "hari" <harimalla wrote:>> In the ancient times, it was neither purely sidereal or purely tropical.It was coordinative of both.The star position also represented the season positioning. This was possible because the difference was little. But more important of all, is that because the dates were lunar or better solilunar. In a soli-lunar system, we can have the lunar dates represent the seasons correctly for even about two thousand years.This is our vedic system too to have coordination of the tropical and the sidereal dates by the lunar tithi.These three types of dates are coordinated. But people who do not understand this sense, would like to think that the dates are tropcial, sidereal and luanar as separate or independant systems. They were never actually separate or better, even if separately assumed, they were coordinated as a necessary condition.> Hari Malla

April 20, 2010

Dear All, The use of luni-solar month names as given below by Parthians does point to the fact that "They definitely had/and-was-using a fixed Nakshatra Zodiac with related named whether hard proof for the same (further evidence for the same) is available to us or not". Parthians were our agama/tantric brothers, and their astrological system was (and -as expected - would be) very much indian like in nature; it cannot be otherwise!Indian Month

name

Parthian Month name

Chaitra

: Addaru

Vaishakh

: Nisannu

Jyaishtha

: Ajaru

Ashadha

: Simanu

Shravana

: Duuzu

Bhaadra or, Bhadrapad

: Abu

Ashwin

: Ulula

Kartik

: Tasritu

Agrahayana or, Margashirsha

: Arahsamna

Paush

: Kislimu

Magh

: Tebetu

Phalgun

: Sabatu

Note: If one gets clear realization about something it is not long that the evidence presents itself before the seeker.Love and regards,Sreenadh

April 20, 2010

How fascinating!

--Radha

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Harimalla ji, Devisingh ji and all,

> I am quoting a chart from the Parthian chart collection with an

> effort to understand the same below -

> But first to help you understand better a Indian and Parthian month

> names are tabulated below -

> Indian Sign name Parthian sign name Aries : Hunlu

> Taurus : Guan Gemini : Masmas Cancer : Alla

> Leo : Aura Virgo : Absin Libra : Rin

> Scorpio : Girtab Sagittarius : Pa Capricon :

> Mas Aquarius : Gu Pisces : Kunmes,Zibme

> Indian Month name Parthian Month name Chaitra : Addaru

> Vaishakh : Nisannu Jyaishtha : Ajaru Ashadha :

> Simanu Shravana : Duuzu Bhaadra or, Bhadrapad : Abu

> Ashwin : Ulula Kartik : Tasritu Agrahayana or,

> Margashirsha : Arahsamna Paush : Kislimu Magh :

> Tebetu Phalgun : Sabatu

> Quote (Translation as given by Rochberg): " Tebetu the 24th, in the last

> part of the night of the 25th, year 13th of Darius, the child was born.

> Kislimu, around the 15th, Mercury's first visibility in the east behind

> (east of) Gemini. Tebetu: (winter) solstice was on the 9th of Tebetu;

> last lunar visibility (0f the month) was on the 26th. Sabatu: Sabatu,

> dense clouds, around the 2nd, Mercury's last visibility in the east of

> Capricorn. The 14th of Sabatu, Venus's last visibility in the east in

> front (west) of Aquarius. (The year had) an intercalary Addaru. Tasritu

> the 22nd, Jupiter's (2nd) stationary point in Aquarius. Around the 2nd

> of Addaru, (Jupiter's) last visibility in Pisces. Duuzu the 30th,

> Saturn's first visibility in Cancer (it was) high and faint; around the

> 26th, (the ideal) first visibility. The 7th of Kislimu, first stationary

> point; Tebetu the 17th, 'opposition'. (The year had) an intercalary

> month Addaru " .

> Sound's like some alien language? Natural. [] Let us try to

> understand it better in Indian terms.

>

> " Magh the 24th, in the last part of the night of the 25th, year 13th of

> Darius, the child was born. Paush, around the 15th, Mercury's first

> visibility in the east of Gemini. Magh: solstice was on the 9th of

> Magh; last lunar visibility was on the 26th. Phalgun: Phalgun, dense

> clouds, around the 2nd, Mercury's last visibility in the east of

> Capricorn. The 14th of Phalgun, Venus's last visibility in the east in

> the west of Aquarius. (The year had) an intercalary Chaitra. Kartik

> (month) the 22nd (is), Jupiter's stationary point in Aquarius. Around

> the 2nd of Chaitra, (Jupiter's) last visibility in Pisces. Shravana the

> 30th, Saturn's first visibility in Cancer (it was) high and faint;

> around the 26th, (the ideal) first visibility. The 7th of Paush, first

> stationary point; Magh the 17th, 'opposition'. (The year had) an

> intercalary month Chaitra " .

>

> Now elaborate bit more and let us try to understand it better -

> " Magh the 24th, in the last part of the night of the 25th, year 13th of

> Darius, the child was born. [DOB given. In the second part of the night

> between 24/25th of Magh in -410 BCE the child took birth]

> Paush, around the 15th, Mercury's first visibility in the east of

> Gemini. [The statement is true for -410 BCE]

> Magh: solstice was on the 9th of Magh; [This chart is being written

> after 9th of Magh, i.e. on 24th of Magh as stated earlier]

> last lunar visibility (Amavasi) is on the 26th. [26th of Magh is

> Amavasi. The birth took place two days before that - i.e. on 24th]

> Phalgun: Phalgun, dense clouds, around the 2nd, Mercury's last

> visibility in the east of Capricorn. [The statement is true for -410

> BCE]

> The 14th of Phalgun, Venus's last visibility in the east in the west of

> Aquarius.[The statement is true for -410 BCE]

> (The year had) an intercalary Chaitra. [The statement is true for -410

> BCE]

> Kartik (month) the 22nd (is), Jupiter's stationary point in Aquarius.

> [Jupiter's entry to Aquarius was on this date, and he was there itself

> at the time of birth as well. i.e. Jupiter is in Aquarius]

> Around the 2nd of Chaitra, (Jupiter's) last visibility in Pisces.

> [Actually this statement should be about the entry of Jupiter into

> Pisces. i.e. Jupiter will move to Pisces only 3-4 months after the given

> date of birth. i.e. Jupiter is still in Aquarius]

> Shravana the 30th, Saturn's first visibility in Cancer (it was) high and

> faint; around the 26th, (the ideal) first visibility. [i.e. Saturn is in

> Cancer]

> The 7th of Paush, first stationary point; [Capricorn is the Lagna]

> Magh the 17th, 'opposition'. [Rahu-Ketu axis is in Aquarius-Leo]

> (The year had) an intercalary month Chaitra.[This statement again, so

> that there is no confusion regarding the sign changing date of Jupiter]

>

> From the above we came to know that -

> 1) Sun is in Aquarius.

> 2) Tithi is Krishna Trayodasi (2 days before Amavasi). Thus we derive

> that Moon was in Capricorn.

> 3) Time of birth is second half of night and the Lagna is Capricorn

> 4) Jupiter is in Aquarius

> 5) Saturn is in Cancer

> A good enough description to locate a date and we conclude that the

> birth took place on 20th Jan -410 around 5 am. [user JHora to cast this

> chart and verify. I have used Surya-Siddhantic Ayanamsa as proposed by

> Chandrahari]

> It is well evident that the system under use was Siderial and not

> Tropical.

> Note: I invite your comments, and request you all to review the other

> charts given in that text and present your realizations. []

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " hari " <harimalla@>

> wrote:

> >

> > In the ancient times, it was neither purely sidereal or purely

> tropical.It was coordinative of both.The star position also represented

> the season positioning. This was possible because the difference was

> little. But more important of all, is that because the dates were

> lunar or better solilunar. In a soli-lunar system, we can have the lunar

> dates represent the seasons correctly for even about two thousand

> years.This is our vedic system too to have coordination of the tropical

> and the sidereal dates by the lunar tithi.These three types of dates are

> coordinated. But people who do not understand this sense, would like to

> think that the dates are tropcial, sidereal and luanar as separate or

> independant systems. They were never actually separate or better, even

> if separately assumed, they were coordinated as a necessary condition.

> > Hari Malla

>

April 20, 2010

Dear All, Rochberg states - "Babylonian [he means Parthian - 4th century BCE] horoscopes and nativity omens [the omens as described in clay tablet texts like "Enuma anu enlil" and "Mul.apin" dates back to -1000 BCE or more and is truly Sumerian/Mesopotamian temple cult in origin] may represent the end of the development of Mesopotamian genethlialogy, but they constitute the source of the genethlialogical branch of astrology that emerged in the Hellenistic Greek world". In other words he is accepting that - 1) There is no original Greek astrology but only adopted knowledge from 4th century BC parthian astrology (that in turn came from Sumerian/Mesopotomian/Babylonian temple cult that prevailed in Uruk)! 2) Even the oldest texts such as Eudoxus of Cnidus (410 or 408 BC – 355 or 347 BC) known to us is considered as just a cataloging effort of the stars mentioned in in the ancient Babylonian text "Mul.apin" (-1000 BCE)! 3) In short Greek astrology ORIGINATED only around 4th century BCE, only after they came into contact with Parthian Iran! Far before that time itself India had numerous interactions with Parthian kings even during the period of Mahabharata, and also that during 500 BCE to 100 BCE also there were too much interactions between India and Parthia. If the Greeks gained astrological wisdom mainly from Parthia; and if that knowledge was there in India before that period itself; just see how foolish it would be to argue that the Indian astrological wisdom came from Greek to India!!! Anyway that is the way many westerners and many foolish AKKs would argue! Note: Ofcourse Sumerian temple astrology of Uruk is something we should value and the antiquity of which we should accept. Central russian and Sumerian temple cult, idol worship and Tantric/Agamic worship practices are something that is truly ancient; similar to the syberian/vedic/avestan/iranian yaga/fire cult that do not support to temple-cult/idol-worship much. Love and regards,Sreenadh