The remedy failure

[Guest guest]

Respected members & moderators & ownerI was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been done in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic stature to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group. Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.With regardsLalkitabeeShastri V.K.ShuklaMb.9812020001, 931-5678910

[Guest guest]

Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans, It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my good old friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The point he raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do remedies don’t work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the professional astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the next question is what should be the criteria, what should be the yardstick and what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic area in a chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often diverge from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and undesired)

that is why they lack the “killer punch”. This very impetuosity is one of the causes for a grand failure. I would like to share some of the basic principles for analysing a chart as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior colleagues. The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the “Tewe Ki Darustee”, I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh Sharma ji, Mr. Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful others) use this rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client and this divine subject without a proper “Darustee” of the chart? Good results can be expected once an appropriate “Darustee” of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture. The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa is “Baalig” or “Naa-Baaligh”, as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both of these. Even the Varsh-Phal of a “Na-Baaligh” will be different from the normal one (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941). The third point I would like to emphasize is the “Dharmi Tewa” characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an entirely different approach in case of a “Dharmi Tewa”. Unlike a normal Tewa the planets in a “Dharmi-Tewa” behaves in a different way. Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the other day. That point is regarding “Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli”, particularly in case of a joint family this point is

worth considering. The consideration of “Nasht Ho Chukey Grah” is also necessary (detail of these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in such cases remedial measures are entirely different. An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the “Pitri-Rin” as a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having “Pitri-Rin” in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing numerous remedial measures. After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to determine the problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and sensitive part of analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because sometimes what we see on the paper does not reflect

the true picture. Once the malefic planets are recognized – half of the work is done. It is utmost urgent to know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various method described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. “Budh Ka Bhed” for knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and “Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao” for Saturn and so on. Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in a chart, the most important thing is to determine whether the planet (rather its effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about “Grah-Phal” and “Rashi-Phal”, because it is said in the very beginning of the revered Lal Kitab that “Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj Nahee”, it is very clear from this phrase that the “Maut” (death) is “Grah-Phal” and is irremediable, whereas the “Beemari” (illness) is “Rashi-Phal” and is possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful

while recommending the remedies. As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the remedies are suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the depressing energies and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It helps him to think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight the state of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to prevent the rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can’t slay a beast, he can atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not trespass his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies. The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using Saam (by Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by Mischief) is commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies. Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet. Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular planet for

reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet. Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles related to a particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones favour. Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a particular planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing a common friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that is believed to have

the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc. reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the positive results of the suffering one. Yograj Prabhakar lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Respected members & moderators & ownerI

was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been done in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic stature to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group. Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance to

kp system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.With regardsLalkitabeeShastri V.K.ShuklaMb.9812020001, 931-5678910

TV dinner still cooling?Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Prabhakar Ji,

you have given very illustrative and systematic way of analysing a

kundli. Not many astrologers go in these details before prescribing

medicine. I can term this as a very bold step. Only A Person like you

can do it. Bold step is termed in the sense that a practizing

astrologer most unlikely to give these amalytical steps to others.

But here the illustration given by you may help the students like me

to develope a systemetic approach/method.

let us all as members of this group develope a worksheet to enable

the amatuers to go for a predeifned path. Pandit ji has given such

few worksheets in lastpages of Lal Kitab Ke Armaan.

I wish somepne to come forward to make it in tabular form in English

for all members of group who donot know urdu.

Regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

 

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar wrote:

>

> Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my good

old friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The

point he raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do

remedies don't work? It is a question that many of us (particularly

the professional astrologers) must have come across one time or

another. Now the next question is what should be the criteria, what

should be the yardstick and what should be the exact modus operandi

to find the problematic area in a chart? I am very sorry to say that

most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are not paying complete

consideration to this segment and they often diverge from the very

principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to

recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and

undesired) that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very

impetuosity is one of the causes for a grand failure.

>

> I would like to share some of the basic principles for analysing

a chart as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior

colleagues.

>

> The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the " Tewe Ki

Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh Sharma

ji, Mr. Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful

others) use this rectification technique. How one can do justice with

the client and this divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of the

chart? Good results can be expected once an appropriate " Darustee "

of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised to shake the chart 2-3 times to

achieve the clear picture.

>

> The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa is

" Baalig " or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for

both of these. Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be

different from the normal one (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal

Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941).

>

> The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi Tewa "

characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an entirely

different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a normal Tewa

the planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

>

> Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the other

day. That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

particularly in case of a joint family this point is worth

considering.

>

> The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also necessary

(detail of these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because

in such cases remedial measures are entirely different.

>

> An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-Rin " as

a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having " Pitri-

Rin " in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

performing numerous remedial measures.

>

> After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to

determine the problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and

sensitive part of analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology,

because sometimes what we see on the paper does not reflect the true

picture. Once the malefic planets are recognized – half of the work

is done. It is utmost urgent to know the nature of the planets in a

Chart. There are various method described in detail in the revered

Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka Bhed " for knowing the exact nature of the

planet Mercury and " Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao " for Saturn and so on.

>

> Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in a

chart, the most important thing is to determine whether the planet

(rather its effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-

Phal " and " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of

the revered Lal Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi

Ilaaj Nahee " , it is very clear from this phrase that the " Maut "

(death) is " Grah-Phal " and is irremediable, whereas the " Beemari "

(illness) is " Rashi-Phal " and is possibly repairable. So one should

be vigilant and watchful while recommending the remedies.

>

> As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any

miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any

paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the

remedies are suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the

depressing energies and the native is blessed with positive energies

around him. It helps him to think positively, to appreciate the

situation honestly and fight the state of affairs more bravely. It is

not in the human capacity to prevent the rainfall, but the divine

umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to safeguard himself

from being drenched. If one can't slay a beast, he can atleast

elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not trespass

his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

>

> The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using

Saam (by Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by

Mischief) is commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

>

> Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or

increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a

particular planet for reducing or increasing the bad or good effects

of a planet.

> Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning

articles related to a particular planet for altering the negative

effects in ones favour.

> Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping

items of a particular planet, try to remove a particular segment (as

per Masnooyee Grah combination) of a malefic planet wherever

possible, establishing a common friend between two rival planets and

strengthening a planet that is believed to have the power to level a

wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc. reduces the malefic effects

of a malefic planet and enhance the positive results of the suffering

one.

>

>

> Yograj Prabhakar

>

> lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:

> Respected members & moderators & owner

> I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been done

in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic stature

to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also

that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says

about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be

effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in

varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy

as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements indicates

about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud

we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some

of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan

kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance to kp

system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed

me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a

healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus this

issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other

spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only

> & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I

think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members

will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> With regards

> Lalkitabee

> Shastri V.K.Shukla

> Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

>

>

>

>

>

>

> TV dinner still cooling?

> Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yograj ji

Now this sentence

"Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi

Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi." is known all of us bcause all we r students here.But my question is still there about to know the problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or incurable MAUT. Bcause-------------

 

1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where all astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard stick at different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates another point to debate.

 

2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial part ,bcoz lalkitab says

"Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh akelaa (papi grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga. Now wat shud we understand by these lines , options r as under :-

(i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano main paapi grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?

(ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi paapi grah hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?

(iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh hoga tab teva nabalig hoga?

Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in band mutthi or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?

Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in 5th in a kund

li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of tevaa this wil be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other side u really say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this fact to take remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig or nabalig. But ur opinion is regardable .

 

3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani rahu ketu, even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.

.It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .

4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say about failure of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate mail in group if possible.

 

5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is self created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG created.Which r reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant be a yard stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not to any particular person of next generation.

 

6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV, GRAHFAL KA GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.

Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by My Manas Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in SAMVAT 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, khana no.2 ------Shani, Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ---- moon, no9 --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,

Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-

 

(i) nowhere any statement according to Grahfal by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .

(ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU SWABHAV.

(iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad

(iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI KE KHANE" But Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both conditions fulfilled, What is considerable ?)

(v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa also visible.

 

Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-

(i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal no 6, Jis din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri shadi sooraj shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi huyee, 5 saal pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne bolnaa tha ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se kaata.

(ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa hai , haan ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation thik nahi hogaa

Remedial Process at :--

(i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6 tak rahega ,agar khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa hai,bachchey is vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker mandir main rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.

U told –"An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" as a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having "Pitri-Rin" in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing numerous remedial measures.

But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think there was no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major feature).Secondly how used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to mark tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of analyzation so we accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview of balig tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is balig or nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig & nabalig tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig hi lenge ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main aapke dwaaraa spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use kiyaa hai ya yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki gayee to aap ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.

Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine knowledge can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im again requestibg u –plz read my mail carefully & answer.

Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark teve ki durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after analyzation incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic & benefic aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh ka bhed, balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki gayee vidhi ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin question bhi hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa harz hai.But How………. it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is y ---- I asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria to decide that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ……….etc." remedy karne ke baad operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit ji tabhi likh saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin na kahin per lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey huye koi ek technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne ke kabil hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa likhi ya spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye spashtikaran bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne parshn rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group main. Other wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies.

With regards

LalkitabeeV.K.ShuklaMb.9812020001, 931-5678910 , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:>> Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans, > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my good old friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The point he raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do remedies don't work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the professional astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the next question is what should be the criteria, what should be the yardstick and what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic area in a chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often diverge from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and undesired) that is why they lack the "killer punch". This very impetuosity is one of the causes for a grand failure. > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for analysing a chart as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior colleagues. > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the "Tewe Ki Darustee", I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh Sharma ji, Mr. Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful others) use this rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client and this divine subject without a proper "Darustee" of the chart? Good results can be expected once an appropriate "Darustee" of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.> > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa is "Baalig" or "Naa-Baaligh", as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both of these. Even the Varsh-Phal of a "Na-Baaligh" will be different from the normal one (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941).> > The third point I would like to emphasize is the "Dharmi Tewa" characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an entirely different approach in case of a "Dharmi Tewa". Unlike a normal Tewa the planets in a "Dharmi-Tewa" behaves in a different way.> > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the other day. That point is regarding "Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli", particularly in case of a joint family this point is worth considering. > > The consideration of "Nasht Ho Chukey Grah" is also necessary (detail of these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in such cases remedial measures are entirely different.> > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" as a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having "Pitri-Rin" in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing numerous remedial measures.> > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to determine the problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and sensitive part of analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because sometimes what we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the malefic planets are recognized – half of the work is done. It is utmost urgent to know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various method described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. "Budh Ka Bhed" for knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and "Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao" for Saturn and so on. > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in a chart, the most important thing is to determine whether the planet (rather its effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about "Grah-Phal" and "Rashi-Phal", because it is said in the very beginning of the revered Lal Kitab that "Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj Nahee", it is very clear from this phrase that the "Maut" (death) is "Grah-Phal" and is irremediable, whereas the "Beemari" (illness) is "Rashi-Phal" and is possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful while recommending the remedies. > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the remedies are suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the depressing energies and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It helps him to think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight the state of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to prevent the rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a beast, he can atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not trespass his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies. > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using Saam (by Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by Mischief) is commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies. > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet. > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular planet for reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet. > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles related to a particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones favour.> Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a particular planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing a common friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that is believed to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc. reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the positive results of the suffering one. > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > lalkitabee lalkitabee wrote:> Respected members & moderators & owner> I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been done in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic stature to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only> & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.> With regards> Lalkitabee> Shastri V.K.Shukla> Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?> Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.>

[Guest guest]

Respected Shukla Ji,Namaskar,Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long mum. Your reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have tried to give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish the other group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and in Capital letters under respective paras

On 2/12/07, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:

 

 

 

 

Respected Yograj ji

Now this sentence

" Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi

Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi. " is known all of us bcause all we r students here.But my question is still there about to know the problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI

or incurable MAUT. Bcause-------------

 

1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where all astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard stick at different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates another point to debate.

THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE

KI DURUSTI.

2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial part ,bcoz lalkitab says

" Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh akelaa (papi grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga. Now wat shud we understand by these lines ,

options r as under :-

(i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano main paapi grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?

HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA

(ii)

band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi paapi grah hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?

(EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)

(iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh hoga tab teva nabalig hoga?

 

Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in band mutthi or any one out of

papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?

IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT ARISE

 

Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in 5th in a kund

li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of tevaa this wil be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there.

At other side u really say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this fact to take remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig or nabalig. But

ur opinion is regardable .

THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE

PAAPI GRAHS AND HOW THESE ARE FORMED", WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF

SUN IN 5TH AND 11TH

NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG TEVA AS

BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG TEVA.

3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani rahu ketu, even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL

PLANET.

BUDH KA BHED-

HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANETS?

SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV-

ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S OR OTHER PLANETS

ALSO.

Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?

..It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .

THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS

DHARMI TEVA, HOW IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI

TEVA FRO OTHERS."

 

4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say about failure of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate mail in group if possible.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE

SON OR FATHER'S TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE

THIS IS APPLICABLE.

5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is self created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2

nd is BUJURG created.Which r reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant be a yard stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not to any particular person of next generation.

 

I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA

GRAH IS RELATED WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I

FEEL BOTH HAVE DIFFERENT ENTITY.

6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV, GRAHFAL KA GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.

Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by My Manas Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in SAMVAT 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty,

khana no.2 ------Shani, Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ---- moon, no9 --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,

Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-

 

(i) nowhere any statement according to Grahfal by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .

 

(ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU SWABHAV.

 

(iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad

(iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI KE KHANE " But Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5

th budh in 6th (Both conditions fulfilled, What is considerable ?)

(v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa also visible.

 

 

Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-

(i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal no 6, Jis din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri shadi sooraj shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi huyee, 5 saal pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne bolnaa tha ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se kaata.

 

(ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa hai , haan ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation thik nahi hogaa

 

Remedial Process at :--

(i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6 tak rahega ,agar khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa hai,bachchey is vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker mandir main rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.

 

 

U told � " An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-Rin " as a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having " Pitri-Rin " in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing numerous remedial measures.

 

But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think there was no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major feature).Secondly how used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to mark tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of analyzation so we accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview of balig tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is balig or nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig & nabalig tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig hi lenge ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main aapke dwaaraa spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use kiyaa hai ya yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki gayee to aap ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.

Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine knowledge can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im again requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.

 

 

Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark teve ki durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after analyzation incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic & benefic aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh ka bhed, balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki gayee vidhi ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin question bhi hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa harz hai.But How���. it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is y ---- I asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria to decide that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc. " remedy karne ke baad operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit ji tabhi likh saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin na kahin per lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey huye koi ek technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne ke kabil hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa likhi ya spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye spashtikaran bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne parshn rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group main. Other wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "

I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE

STATUS OF PUNDIT JI.

SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE

QUESTIONS RAISED IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET

PROPERTIES THESE ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.

HERE IS THE DEBATE.

·

HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE OCCURRENCE OF SUCH

THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,

·

HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.

·

WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS WITH SONS

·

HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES

OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY

PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")

LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:

THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN

1951. PUNDIT JEE WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE

HIS AGE THEN (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK WRITTEN

IN 1940 (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU HAVE

ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI

THAT PUNDIT JEE HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW

EXAMINE THESE BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE OF

UNDER 20 YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE

HOROSCOPE UPTO A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT

LALKITAB THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S LAST

PAGES. HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF

CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT

JI NEVER USED OR IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.

THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13

YEARS AFTER THE WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY

ITEMS ARE DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT

DISCUSSED IN ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A TABULAR

FORM. WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE

ILLUSTRATION.

MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH

EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME

TOPIC, SOMETIMES DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING

ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE

READERS HAD ALREADY READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.

DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING

IN CHILDHOOD, WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE

ALREADY IN OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION AND

EXPERIENCE.

THEREFORE IN MY OPINION

·

WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY READING A SMALL

PART OF BOOK.

·

EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN

INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK TO MAKE IT

VOLUMINOUS.

·

IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM THE BOOK

ITSELF.

·

REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE WRONG

DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS ARE

·

CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF A PLANET IS

BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.

·

HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF EXAMPLES

GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.

·

HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR JUST DO

POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.

·

HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC APPROACH TO

LALKITAB.

·

I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS LIKE ME ARE

" KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU" AS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK

ITSELF.

DEAR

FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED FOR HUMANITY, IT IS

UPTO US

TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT OF THE BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM ,

WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK SIMPLE BY DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION

BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM

WHICH OUR NEW GENERATION IS GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE

TO FIND THE OLDAGE NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE

WORDS/PHRASES OF THE BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE

GOING TO LEFT BEHIND THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.

 

Best Regards Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

, Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar wrote:

>> Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans, > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my good old friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The point he raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do remedies don't work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the professional astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the next question is what should be the criteria, what should be the yardstick and what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic area in a chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often diverge from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and undesired) that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very impetuosity is one of the causes for a grand failure. > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for analysing a chart as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior colleagues. > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the " Tewe Ki Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh Sharma ji, Mr. Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful others) use this rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client and this divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of the chart? Good results can be expected once an appropriate " Darustee " of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.

> > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa is " Baalig " or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both of these. Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be different from the normal one (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941).

> > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi Tewa " characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an entirely different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a normal Tewa the planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the other day. That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " , particularly in case of a joint family this point is worth considering. > > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also necessary (detail of these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in such cases remedial measures are entirely different.> > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-Rin " as a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having " Pitri-Rin " in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing numerous remedial measures.

> > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to determine the problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and sensitive part of analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because sometimes what we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the malefic planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is utmost urgent to know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various method described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka Bhed " for knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and " Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao " for Saturn and so on. > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in a chart, the most important thing is to determine whether the planet (rather its effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-Phal " and " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of the revered Lal Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj Nahee " , it is very clear from this phrase that the " Maut " (death) is " Grah-Phal " and is irremediable, whereas the " Beemari " (illness) is " Rashi-Phal " and is possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful while recommending the remedies. > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the remedies are suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the depressing energies and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It helps him to think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight the state of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to prevent the rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a beast, he can atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not trespass his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies. > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using Saam (by Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by Mischief) is commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies. > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet. > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular planet for reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet. > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles related to a particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones favour.

> Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a particular planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing a common friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that is believed to have the power to level a wayward planet (

e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc. reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the positive results of the suffering one. > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > lalkitabee lalkitabee wrote:

> Respected members & moderators & owner> I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been done in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic stature to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But

is there any criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only> & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> With regards> Lalkitabee> Shastri V.K.Shukla> Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?

> Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.>

[Guest guest]

Respeced Nirmal ji,

AAPNEY PUCHA KI

" THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI

DURUSTI "

ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY APNI

PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN

UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI UPYOG

MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI HEY.JAHAN

TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI

TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR DEKHNEY

KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT

NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI

HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE

CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE JIS

SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO

BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR

MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY

AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR

JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN

MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR YA

BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA

SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI DURUSTI

KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY BALKI

JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.

 

AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA

GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN

RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH

JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY

HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE

LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY

HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB

SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN EK

PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK

UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN GALATI

KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY

HAIN?

 

PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE

JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA.

 

APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI

BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.

THANKS

REGARDS

UMESH SHARMA

 

 

 

 

, NKB <nirbhar wrote:

>

> Respected Shukla Ji,

> Namaskar,

> Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long

mum. Your

> reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have

tried to

> give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish the

other

> group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and in

Capital

> letters under respective paras

>

>

> On 2/12/07, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:

> >

> > Respected Yograj ji

> >

> > Now this sentence

> >

> > " Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi

> >

> > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi. " is known all of

us bcause

> > all we r students here.But my question is still there about to

know the

> > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or

incurable

> > MAUT. Bcause-------------

> >

> >

> >

> > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where

all

> > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard

stick at

> > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates

another point

> > to debate.

> >

> > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI

DURUSTI.

> >

> > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial

part ,bcoz

> > lalkitab says

> >

> > " Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh

akelaa (papi

> > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga.

Now wat shud

> > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-

> >

> > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano

main paapi

> > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?

> >

> > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA

> >

>

>

>

(ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi

paapi grah

> > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?

> >

> > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)

> >

> > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh

hoga tab

> > teva nabalig hoga?

> >

> > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in

band mutthi

> > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?

> >

>

>

>

> IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT

ARISE

> >

> > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in

5th in a

> > kund

> >

> > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of

tevaa this wil

> > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other

side u really

> > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this

fact to take

> > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig

or nabalig.

> > But ur opinion is regardable .

> >

> > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE PAAPI

GRAHS AND

> > HOW THESE ARE FORMED " , WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF

SUN IN 5TH AND

> > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG TEVA

AS

> > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG

TEVA.

> >

> > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani

rahu ketu,

> > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA

JAATI

> > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.

> >

> > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER

PLANETS?

> >

> > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S

OR OTHER

> > PLANETS ALSO.

> >

> > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?

> >

> > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .

> >

> > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS DHARMI

TEVA, HOW

> > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI

TEVA FRO

> > OTHERS. " *

> >

>

>

>

> 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say

about failure

> > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate

mail in

> > group if possible.

> >

> > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE SON OR

FATHER'S

> > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE

THIS IS

> > APPLICABLE.

> >

> > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is

self

> > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG

created.Which r

> > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant

be a yard

> > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not

to any

> > particular person of next generation.

> >

> > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH

IS RELATED

> > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I

FEEL BOTH HAVE

> > DIFFERENT ENTITY.

> >

> > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV,

GRAHFAL KA

> > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.

> >

> > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by

My Manas

> > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in

SAMVAT

> > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, khana

no.2------Shani,

> > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup

> > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ----

moon, no9

> > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,

> >

> > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-

> >

> >

> >

> > (i) nowhere any statement according to

Grahfal

> > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .

> >

> > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU

SWABHAV.

> >

> > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad

> >

> > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI

KE KHANE " But

> > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both conditions

> > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)

> >

> > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa

also

> > visible.

> >

> >

> >

> > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-

> >

> > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal

no 6, Jis

> > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri

shadi sooraj

> > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi

huyee, 5 saal

> > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne

bolnaa tha

> > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se

kaata.

> >

> > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa

hai , haan

> > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation

thik nahi hogaa

> >

> > Remedial Process at :--

> >

> > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6

tak rahega ,agar

> > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa

hai,bachchey is

> > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se

> > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker

mandir main

> > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.

> >

> > U told � " An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider

the " Pitri-Rin " as

> > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives

having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

performing

> > numerous remedial measures.

> >

> > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think

there was

> > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major

feature).Secondly how

> > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to

mark

> > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of

analyzation so we

> > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview

of balig

> > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is

balig or

> > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig &

nabalig

> > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig

hi lenge

> > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main

aapke dwaaraa

> > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use

kiyaa hai ya

> > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki

gayee to aap

> > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.

> >

> > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine

knowledge

> > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im

again

> > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.

> >

> > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark

teve ki

> > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after

analyzation

> > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic &

benefic

> > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh

ka bhed,

> > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki

gayee vidhi

> > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin

question bhi

> > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa

harz hai.ButHow���.

> > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is

y ---- I

> > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria

to decide

> > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc. " remedy

karne ke baad

> > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit

ji tabhi likh

> > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin

na kahin per

> > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey

huye koi ek

> > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne

ke kabil

> > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa

likhi ya

> > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye

spashtikaran

> > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne

parshn

> > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group

main. Other

> > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "

> >

> > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE STATUS

OF PUNDIT

> > JI.

> >

> > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE

QUESTIONS RAISED

> > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET

PROPERTIES THESE

> > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.

> >

> > HERE IS THE DEBATE.

> >

> > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE

OCCURRENCE OF SUCH

> > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,

> >

> > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.

> >

> > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS

WITH SONS

> >

> > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW

HUNDRED PAGES

> > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE

GIVEN AISE HEE

> > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE " )

> >

> > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:

> >

> > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951.

PUNDIT JEE

> > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE

HIS AGE THEN

> > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK WRITTEN

IN 1940

> > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU

HAVE

> >

> > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI THAT

PUNDIT JEE

> > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW

EXAMINE THESE

> > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE

OF UNDER 20

> > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE

HOROSCOPE UPTO

> > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT

LALKITAB

> > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S

LAST PAGES.

> > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF

> >

> > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI

NEVER USED OR

> > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.

> >

> > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS

AFTER THE

> > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY

ITEMS ARE

> > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT

DISCUSSED IN

> > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A

TABULAR FORM.

> > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE

> > ILLUSTRATION.

> >

> > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH

EXPERIENCE AND

> > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME

TOPIC, SOMETIMES

> > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING

> >

> > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE READERS

HAD ALREADY

> > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.

> >

> > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN

CHILDHOOD,

> > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE

ALREADY IN

> > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION

AND

> > EXPERIENCE.

> >

> > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION

> >

> > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY

READING A SMALL

> > PART OF BOOK.

> >

> > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN

> > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK TO

MAKE IT

> > VOLUMINOUS.

> >

> > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM

THE BOOK

> > ITSELF.

> >

> > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE

WRONG

> > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS ARE

> >

> > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF

A PLANET IS

> > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.

> >

> > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF

EXAMPLES

> > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.

> >

> > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR

JUST DO

> > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.

> >

> > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC

APPROACH TO

> > LALKITAB.

> >

> > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS

LIKE ME ARE

> > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU " AS

WRITTEN IN THE

> > BOOK ITSELF.

> >

> > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED FOR

> > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT

OF THE

> > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK

SIMPLE BY

> > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW

THAT THIS

> > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW

GENERATION IS

> > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND THE

OLDAGE

> > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE

WORDS/PHRASES OF THE

> > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING TO

LEFT BEHIND

> > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.

> >

> > Best Regards

> >

> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> >

, Yograj Prabhakar

<yr_prabhakar@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my

good old

> > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The

point he

> > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do

remedies don't

> > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the

professional

> > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the

next

> > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the

yardstick and

> > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic

area in a

> > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab

practitioners are

> > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often

diverge

> > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main

thrust is to

> > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and

undesired)

> > that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very impetuosity

is one of

> > the causes for a grand failure.

> > >

> > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for

analysing a chart

> > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior

colleagues.

> > >

> > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the " Tewe

Ki

> > Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh

Sharma ji, Mr.

> > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful

others) use this

> > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client

and this

> > divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of the chart? Good

results can be

> > expected once an appropriate " Darustee " of the chart is done.

Pt. Ji advised

> > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.

> > >

> > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa

is " Baalig "

> > or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both

of these.

> > Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be different from the

normal one

> > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-

1941).

> > >

> > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi Tewa "

> > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an

entirely

> > different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a normal

Tewa the

> > planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> > >

> > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the

other day.

> > That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

particularly in

> > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.

> > >

> > > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also necessary

(detail of

> > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in

such cases

> > remedial measures are entirely different.

> > >

> > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-Rin "

as a

> > major feature, because I have seen that the natives

having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

performing

> > numerous remedial measures.

> > >

> > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to

determine the

> > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and

sensitive part of

> > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because

sometimes what

> > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the

malefic

> > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is

utmost urgent to

> > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various

method

> > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka Bhed "

for

> > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and " Shani Ka

Zaati Swabhao "

> > for Saturn and so on.

> > >

> > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in

a chart,

> > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet

(rather its

> > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-Phal " and

> > " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of the

revered Lal

> > Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj

Nahee " , it is

> > very clear from this phrase that the " Maut " (death) is " Grah-

Phal " and is

> > irremediable, whereas the " Beemari " (illness) is " Rashi-Phal "

and is

> > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful while

> > recommending the remedies.

> > >

> > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any

miracle,

> > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any

paranormal

> > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the

remedies are

> > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the

depressing energies

> > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It

helps him to

> > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight

the state

> > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to

prevent the

> > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably

helps him to

> > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a

beast, he can

> > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could

not trespass

> > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

> > >

> > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using

Saam (by

> > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by

Mischief) is

> > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

> > >

> > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or

increasing the

> > bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular

planet for

> > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles

related to a

> > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones

favour.

> > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a

particular

> > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah

> > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing

a common

> > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that

is believed

> > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu)

etc.

> > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the

positive

> > results of the suffering one.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > Respected members & moderators & owner

> > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been

done in

> > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

stature to

> > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also

that we

> > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says

about

> > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

criteria to

> > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or

not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli

> > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as

lalkitab

> > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its

> > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we

analyze

> > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of

them say to

> > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan

kundali.Some assume

> > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But

after cross

> > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im

putting

> > this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My

personal

> > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry

analyzations as

> > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious

point of

> > views.Only

> > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I

think

> > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members

will

> > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> > > With regards

> > > Lalkitabee

> > > Shastri V.K.Shukla

> > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > TV dinner still cooling?

> > > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Umesh Bhai, Very impressive answer indeed!!! That is how a discussion should be continued. Instead of raising questions on Queries we should add something positive in it. But I expect much more from the heavyweight of LK like your good-self and Vipin Bhai. I believe that the correct sense of the word “Debatable” by Nirmal ji is not controversial or contentious, rather what he tried to express is that more and more positive discussion on this “Tewe Ki Darustee” aspect is required so that everybody is able to understand its true sense. As far as Nirmal ji is concerned he is a true Lal Kitab devotee and is very well aware of this Darustee factor. We all know that people use different so called techniques (often not conform to the LK principals); but what you have mentioned regarding “Tewe Ki Darustee” is a near correct method. Kindly further enlighten us on this matter with your precious thoughts. As far as the “Heavy Dose” is concerned, all I have to say is: “Bhai Ji Khud 5000-mg Ki Dose Aur 50000 Volt ka Jhatka Dekar - Ilzaam mujh par laga rahe ho?”(Just Kidding). Yograj Prabhakar Umesh

Sharma <mudit982001 wrote: Respeced Nirmal ji,AAPNEY PUCHA KI "THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI DURUSTI"ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY APNI PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI UPYOG MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI HEY.JAHAN TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH

GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR DEKHNEY KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE JIS SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR YA BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI DURUSTI KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY BALKI JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA

GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN EK PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN GALATI KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY HAIN? PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA. APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.THANKSREGARDSUMESH

SHARMA , NKB <nirbhar wrote:>> Respected Shukla Ji,> Namaskar,> Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long mum. Your> reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have tried to> give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish the other> group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and in Capital> letters under respective paras> > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:> >> > Respected Yograj ji> >> > Now this sentence> >> > "Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi> >> > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi." is known all of us bcause> > all we r students

here.But my question is still there about to know the> > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or incurable> > MAUT. Bcause-------------> >> >> >> > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where all> > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard stick at> > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates another point> > to debate.> >> > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI DURUSTI.> >> > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial part ,bcoz> > lalkitab says> >> > "Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh akelaa (papi> > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga. Now wat shud> > we understand by these lines , options r

as under :-> >> > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano main paapi> > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?> >> > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA> >> > > > > > > > > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi paapi grah> > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?> >> > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)> >> > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh hoga tab> > teva nabalig hoga?> >> > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in band mutthi> > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?> >> > > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT ARISE> >> > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in 5th in a> >

kund> >> > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of tevaa this wil> > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other side u really> > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this fact to take> > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig or nabalig.> > But ur opinion is regardable .> >> > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE PAAPI GRAHS AND> > HOW THESE ARE FORMED", WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF SUN IN 5TH AND> > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG TEVA AS> > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG TEVA.> >> > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani rahu ketu,> > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA

JAATI> > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.> >> > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANETS?> >> > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S OR OTHER> > PLANETS ALSO.> >> > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?> >> > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .> >> > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS DHARMI TEVA, HOW> > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI TEVA FRO> > OTHERS."*> >> > > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say about failure> > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate mail in> > group if possible.> >> > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL

RULE SON OR FATHER'S> > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE THIS IS> > APPLICABLE.> >> > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is self> > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG created.Which r> > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant be a yard> > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not to any> > particular person of next generation.> >> > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH IS RELATED> > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I FEEL BOTH HAVE> > DIFFERENT ENTITY.> >> > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV, GRAHFAL KA> > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.> >> > Im picking a tevaa which has been

analyzed in lalkitab by My Manas> > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in SAMVAT> > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, khana no.2------Shani,> > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup> > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ---- moon, no9> > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,> >> > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-> >> >> >> > (i) nowhere any statement according to Grahfal> > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .> >> > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU SWABHAV.> >> > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad> >> > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI KE KHANE" But> > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both conditions>

> fulfilled, What is considerable ?)> >> > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa also> > visible.> >> >> >> > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-> >> > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal no 6, Jis> > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri shadi sooraj> > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi huyee, 5 saal> > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne bolnaa tha> > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se kaata.> >> > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa hai , haan> > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation thik nahi hogaa> >> > Remedial Process at :--> >> > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6 tak rahega ,agar> >

khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa hai,bachchey is> > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se> > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker mandir main> > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.> >> > U told �"An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" as> > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having "Pitri-Rin" in> > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing> > numerous remedial measures.> >> > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think there was> > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major feature).Secondly how> > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to mark> > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of

analyzation so we> > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview of balig> > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is balig or> > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig & nabalig> > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig hi lenge> > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main aapke dwaaraa> > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use kiyaa hai ya> > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki gayee to aap> > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.> >> > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine knowledge> > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im again> > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.>

>> > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark teve ki> > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after analyzation> > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic & benefic> > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh ka bhed,> > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki gayee vidhi> > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin question bhi> > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa harz hai.ButHow���.> > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is y ---- I> > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria to decide> > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc." remedy karne ke baad> > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey

hain to.( aisa pandit ji tabhi likh> > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin na kahin per> > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey huye koi ek> > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne ke kabil> > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa likhi ya> > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye spashtikaran> > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne parshn> > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group main. Other> > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "> >> > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE STATUS OF PUNDIT> > JI.> >> > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE QUESTIONS RAISED> > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA

INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET PROPERTIES THESE> > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.> >> > HERE IS THE DEBATE.> >> > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE OCCURRENCE OF SUCH> > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,> >> > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.> >> > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS WITH SONS> >> > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES> > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE> > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> >> > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:> >> > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951. PUNDIT JEE> > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE HIS AGE THEN> > (A YOUTH IN HIS

THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK WRITTEN IN 1940> > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU HAVE> >> > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI THAT PUNDIT JEE> > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW EXAMINE THESE> > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE OF UNDER 20> > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE HOROSCOPE UPTO> > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT LALKITAB> > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S LAST PAGES.> > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF> >> > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI NEVER USED OR> > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.> >> > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE

CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS AFTER THE> > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY ITEMS ARE> > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT DISCUSSED IN> > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A TABULAR FORM.> > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE> > ILLUSTRATION.> >> > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH EXPERIENCE AND> > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME TOPIC, SOMETIMES> > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING> >> > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE READERS HAD ALREADY> > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.> >> > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN CHILDHOOD,> > WHILE

CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE ALREADY IN> > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION AND> > EXPERIENCE.> >> > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION> >> > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY READING A SMALL> > PART OF BOOK.> >> > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN> > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK TO MAKE IT> > VOLUMINOUS.> >> > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM THE BOOK> > ITSELF.> >> > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE WRONG> > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS ARE> >> > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF A PLANET IS> > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION

IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.> >> > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF EXAMPLES> > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.> >> > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR JUST DO> > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.> >> > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC APPROACH TO> > LALKITAB.> >> > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS LIKE ME ARE> > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU" AS WRITTEN IN THE> > BOOK ITSELF.> >> > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED FOR> > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT OF THE> > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK SIMPLE BY> > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR

GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS> > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW GENERATION IS> > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND THE OLDAGE> > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE WORDS/PHRASES OF THE> > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING TO LEFT BEHIND> > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.> >> > Best Regards> >> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> >> > > > > > > , Yograj Prabhakar <yr_prabhakar@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,> > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my good old> > friend Pt.

Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The point he> > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do remedies don't> > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the professional> > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the next> > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the yardstick and> > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic area in a> > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are> > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often diverge> > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to> > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and undesired)> > that is why they lack the "killer punch". This very impetuosity is one of> > the

causes for a grand failure.> > >> > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for analysing a chart> > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior colleagues.> > >> > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the "Tewe Ki> > Darustee", I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh Sharma ji, Mr.> > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful others) use this> > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client and this> > divine subject without a proper "Darustee" of the chart? Good results can be> > expected once an appropriate "Darustee" of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised> > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.> > >> > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa is

"Baalig"> > or "Naa-Baaligh", as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both of these.> > Even the Varsh-Phal of a "Na-Baaligh" will be different from the normal one> > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941).> > >> > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the "Dharmi Tewa"> > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an entirely> > different approach in case of a "Dharmi Tewa". Unlike a normal Tewa the> > planets in a "Dharmi-Tewa" behaves in a different way.> > >> > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the other day.> > That point is regarding "Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli", particularly in> > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.> > >> > > The consideration of "Nasht Ho Chukey Grah" is also

necessary (detail of> > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in such cases> > remedial measures are entirely different.> > >> > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" as a> > major feature, because I have seen that the natives having "Pitri-Rin" in> > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of performing> > numerous remedial measures.> > >> > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to determine the> > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and sensitive part of> > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because sometimes what> > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the malefic> > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is utmost urgent to>

> know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various method> > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. "Budh Ka Bhed" for> > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and "Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao"> > for Saturn and so on.> > >> > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in a chart,> > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet (rather its> > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about "Grah-Phal" and> > "Rashi-Phal", because it is said in the very beginning of the revered Lal> > Kitab that "Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj Nahee", it is> > very clear from this phrase that the "Maut" (death) is "Grah-Phal" and is> > irremediable, whereas the "Beemari" (illness) is "Rashi-Phal" and is> > possibly repairable. So one should be

vigilant and watchful while> > recommending the remedies.> > >> > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any miracle,> > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any paranormal> > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the remedies are> > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the depressing energies> > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It helps him to> > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight the state> > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to prevent the> > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to> > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a beast, he can> > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not

trespass> > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.> > >> > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using Saam (by> > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by Mischief) is> > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.> > >> > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or increasing the> > bad or good effects of a planet.> > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular planet for> > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.> > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles related to a> > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones favour.> > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a particular> > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as

per Masnooyee Grah> > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing a common> > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that is believed> > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc.> > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the positive> > results of the suffering one.> > >> > >> > > Yograj Prabhakar> > >> > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > Respected members & moderators & owner> > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been done in> > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic stature to> > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also that we> > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> > >

Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says about> > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any criteria to> > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli> > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as lalkitab> > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its> > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we analyze> > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of them say to> > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan kundali.Some assume> > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But after cross> > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im putting> > this question in this group to make a

healthy disscussion .My personal> > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry analyzations as> > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious point of> > views.Only> > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I think> > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members will> > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.> > > With regards> > > Lalkitabee> > > Shastri V.K.Shukla> > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?> > > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.> > >> >> > >

>>

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Respected Nirmal ji

Congrats. Dekho na bahut dino ke baad ek discussion bahut hi rochak tarike se shuru hua hai aur agar yeh chaltaa rahaa to ho saktaa hai ki lalkitab – grammer ki bahut si Unsuljhi gutthiyaan sulajh jayengi.(Mere khyaal se aap lalkitab main Unsuljhi gutthiyon hain-- is baat se sehmat to honge hi) .Isi din ke liye to aapne group ke massages without moderation approve kiye they SHAYAD kuchh din pehely.

Shukriya Umesh Bhai. Bas yahi aur yahi veh jawaab hai jo ki aapne diyaa hai. Bus itnaa aur spasht ker dain ki KYAA DURUSTI JAANCHNE KE LIYE LIKHI GAYEE SAARNI KAFI HAI YA ISSE BHI AAGE KUCHH ANUBHAV KIYAA HAI LALKITAB KE SYSTEM MAIN AAPNEyadi durusti jaanchne ke baad bhi aur durusti concerned person ki problem se co.relate hone per bhi yadi 3 ya 4 din baad vahi insaan aapse aaker boley ki us din meraa time of birth galat thaa ya yun kahey ki meraa birth morning ka nahi night ka hai , aaj dobaaraa se sahi time ke mutabik dekhain to kyaa durusti hogi ya durusti kaa matlab kyaa hogaa us condition main, remedy to door ki cheez hai. YAAD RAHEY TODAY KUNDLIS R AT EACH DESKTOP OR WEB UNDER A FINGER PRESS & AKSAR PANDIT JI DURUSTI SAHI NAA MILNE PER SAAF SAAF BOL DIYAA KARTEY THEY KI TEVAA THIK NAHI HAI. Unki is adaa ya yun kaho ki durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah aaj bhi hain. Agar vo is massage ko read karain to jaroor apne views share karain.Umesh Bhai rahi baat mere gyaani hone ki , is taarif ke liye shukriya, Lekin Main bhi ek astrostudent ki haisiyat se hi is group main likh rahaa hoon. Yograj ji aap to aise bahut se logon ko jaantey hongey jo ki pandit ji ki is durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah rahe hon.Rajinder Bhatia ji bhi un gawahon main se ek hain.

Aur Umesh ji ne thik hi request ki hai ki --- DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA kyonki jahaan tak main samajhtaa hoon aapne apnaa jivan hi nahi bahut kuchh lalkitab Ke naam arpan ker diyaa hai. Aapke ek prayaas se hi aaj lalkitab itni approachable ho gayi hai ki bade bade tathaakathit HASTINAPUR NARESH jo ki ORIGINAL LAL kitaab ko padhnaa padhaanaa to door , dikhaanaa bhi kewal apni hi milkiyat samajhtey they,,, aaj haaaaaaath mal rahey honge

Ise kehtey hain ------ -"Jor ka jhatkaa dhire se lagey. "

..

I salute u for this devotion & achievement Yograj ji. As well as same to Nirmal ji.

Nirmal Ji my question "about the remedy failure" doesn't concern the calculating to start from 8x1= 8. & I was waiting in same manner AS 8X8 = ? Fir bhi agar koi start se hi start karey to kaho kyaa discussion ko stop ker diyaa jaaye. & As u told HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")

MY ANSWER IS ---- THIS IS AS AN ABUSEMENT TO ME WITHOUT PROPER READING OF MY MAIL .

I know nobody can reach the stature of pandit ji.But aasmaan ko chhoone ki koshish karne per aasmaan haath main aaye ya na aaye insaan ka kad to unchaa ho hi jaataa hai na. Aur is group ka REASEARCH OREINTED maksad bhi to yahi hai mere vichaar se .Aapne aur jo bhi questions poochhey hain unkey jawaab bhi shayd is discussion se nikal jaayain.Ek baat aur---- maine bhi vahi prashn kiye hain previous mail main jo ki aap mujhse pooch rahey hain.Mujhe ummeed hai ki Mere questions ke answers milne per aapke sabhi questions ke bhi answers mil jayenge.Kyonki mere ya aapke ya kisi aur ke kuchh likh dene ka yeh matlab nahi ki lalkitab ka siddhant poora ho gaya .kisi bhi result ya research tak pahunchne ke liye discussion ek maakool kasauti hai.Bus group ke active members ke response ka intejaar hai. Kyon Umesh ji thik hai na.

With so much regard.

lalkitabee V.K.shukla

 

 

 

 

 

, "Umesh Sharma" <mudit982001 wrote:>> Respeced Nirmal ji,> AAPNEY PUCHA KI > "THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI > DURUSTI"> ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY APNI > PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN > UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI UPYOG > MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI HEY.JAHAN > TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI > TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR DEKHNEY > KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT > NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI > HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE > CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE JIS > SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO > BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR > MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY > AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR > JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN > MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR YA > BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA > SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI DURUSTI > KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY BALKI > JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.> > AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA > GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN > RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH > JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY > HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE > LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY > HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB > SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN EK > PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK > UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN GALATI > KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY > HAIN? > > PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE > JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA. > > APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI > BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.> THANKS> REGARDS> UMESH SHARMA > > > > > , NKB nirbhar@ wrote:> >> > Respected Shukla Ji,> > Namaskar,> > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long > mum. Your> > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have > tried to> > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish the > other> > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and in > Capital> > letters under respective paras> > > > > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > >> > > Respected Yograj ji> > >> > > Now this sentence> > >> > > "Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi> > >> > > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi." is known all of > us bcause> > > all we r students here.But my question is still there about to > know the> > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or > incurable> > > MAUT. Bcause-------------> > >> > >> > >> > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where > all> > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard > stick at> > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates > another point> > > to debate.> > >> > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI > DURUSTI.> > >> > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial > part ,bcoz> > > lalkitab says> > >> > > "Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh > akelaa (papi> > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga. > Now wat shud> > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-> > >> > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano > main paapi> > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?> > >> > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi > paapi grah> > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?> > >> > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)> > >> > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh > hoga tab> > > teva nabalig hoga?> > >> > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in > band mutthi> > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?> > >> > > > > > > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT > ARISE> > >> > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in > 5th in a> > > kund> > >> > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of > tevaa this wil> > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other > side u really> > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this > fact to take> > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig > or nabalig.> > > But ur opinion is regardable .> > >> > > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE PAAPI > GRAHS AND> > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED", WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF > SUN IN 5TH AND> > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG TEVA > AS> > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG > TEVA.> > >> > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani > rahu ketu,> > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA > JAATI> > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.> > >> > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER > PLANETS?> > >> > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S > OR OTHER> > > PLANETS ALSO.> > >> > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?> > >> > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .> > >> > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS DHARMI > TEVA, HOW> > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI > TEVA FRO> > > OTHERS."*> > >> > > > > > > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say > about failure> > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate > mail in> > > group if possible.> > >> > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE SON OR > FATHER'S> > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE > THIS IS> > > APPLICABLE.> > >> > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is > self> > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG > created.Which r> > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant > be a yard> > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not > to any> > > particular person of next generation.> > >> > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH > IS RELATED> > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I > FEEL BOTH HAVE> > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.> > >> > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV, > GRAHFAL KA> > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.> > >> > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by > My Manas> > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in > SAMVAT> > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, khana > no.2------Shani,> > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup> > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ---- > moon, no9> > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,> > >> > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-> > >> > >> > >> > > (i) nowhere any statement according to > Grahfal> > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .> > >> > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU > SWABHAV.> > >> > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad> > >> > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI > KE KHANE" But> > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both conditions> > > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)> > >> > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa > also> > > visible.> > >> > >> > >> > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-> > >> > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal > no 6, Jis> > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri > shadi sooraj> > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi > huyee, 5 saal> > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne > bolnaa tha> > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se > kaata.> > >> > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa > hai , haan> > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation > thik nahi hogaa> > >> > > Remedial Process at :--> > >> > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6 > tak rahega ,agar> > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa > hai,bachchey is> > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se> > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker > mandir main> > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.> > >> > > U told �"An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider > the "Pitri-Rin" as> > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of > performing> > > numerous remedial measures.> > >> > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think > there was> > > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major > feature).Secondly how> > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to > mark> > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of > analyzation so we> > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview > of balig> > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is > balig or> > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig & > nabalig> > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig > hi lenge> > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main > aapke dwaaraa> > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use > kiyaa hai ya> > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki > gayee to aap> > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.> > >> > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine > knowledge> > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im > again> > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.> > >> > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark > teve ki> > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after > analyzation> > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic & > benefic> > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh > ka bhed,> > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki > gayee vidhi> > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin > question bhi> > > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa > harz hai.ButHow���.> > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is > y ---- I> > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria > to decide> > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc." remedy > karne ke baad> > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit > ji tabhi likh> > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin > na kahin per> > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey > huye koi ek> > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne > ke kabil> > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa > likhi ya> > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye > spashtikaran> > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne > parshn> > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group > main. Other> > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "> > >> > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE STATUS > OF PUNDIT> > > JI.> > >> > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE > QUESTIONS RAISED> > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET > PROPERTIES THESE> > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.> > >> > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.> > >> > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE > OCCURRENCE OF SUCH> > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,> > >> > > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.> > >> > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS > WITH SONS> > >> > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW > HUNDRED PAGES> > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE > GIVEN AISE HEE> > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> > >> > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:> > >> > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951. > PUNDIT JEE> > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE > HIS AGE THEN> > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK WRITTEN > IN 1940> > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU > HAVE> > >> > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI THAT > PUNDIT JEE> > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW > EXAMINE THESE> > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE > OF UNDER 20> > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE > HOROSCOPE UPTO> > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT > LALKITAB> > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S > LAST PAGES.> > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF> > >> > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI > NEVER USED OR> > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.> > >> > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS > AFTER THE> > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY > ITEMS ARE> > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT > DISCUSSED IN> > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A > TABULAR FORM.> > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE> > > ILLUSTRATION.> > >> > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH > EXPERIENCE AND> > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME > TOPIC, SOMETIMES> > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING> > >> > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE READERS > HAD ALREADY> > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.> > >> > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN > CHILDHOOD,> > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE > ALREADY IN> > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION > AND> > > EXPERIENCE.> > >> > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION> > >> > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY > READING A SMALL> > > PART OF BOOK.> > >> > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN> > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK TO > MAKE IT> > > VOLUMINOUS.> > >> > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM > THE BOOK> > > ITSELF.> > >> > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE > WRONG> > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS ARE> > >> > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF > A PLANET IS> > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.> > >> > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF > EXAMPLES> > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.> > >> > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR > JUST DO> > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.> > >> > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC > APPROACH TO> > > LALKITAB.> > >> > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS > LIKE ME ARE> > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU" AS > WRITTEN IN THE> > > BOOK ITSELF.> > >> > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED FOR> > > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT > OF THE> > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK > SIMPLE BY> > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW > THAT THIS> > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW > GENERATION IS> > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND THE > OLDAGE> > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE > WORDS/PHRASES OF THE> > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING TO > LEFT BEHIND> > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.> > >> > > Best Regards> > >> > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Yograj Prabhakar > <yr_prabhakar@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,> > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my > good old> > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The > point he> > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do > remedies don't> > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the > professional> > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the > next> > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the > yardstick and> > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic > area in a> > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab > practitioners are> > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often > diverge> > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main > thrust is to> > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and > undesired)> > > that is why they lack the "killer punch". This very impetuosity > is one of> > > the causes for a grand failure.> > > >> > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for > analysing a chart> > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior > colleagues.> > > >> > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the "Tewe > Ki> > > Darustee", I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh > Sharma ji, Mr.> > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful > others) use this> > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client > and this> > > divine subject without a proper "Darustee" of the chart? Good > results can be> > > expected once an appropriate "Darustee" of the chart is done. > Pt. Ji advised> > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.> > > >> > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa > is "Baalig"> > > or "Naa-Baaligh", as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both > of these.> > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a "Na-Baaligh" will be different from the > normal one> > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-> 1941).> > > >> > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the "Dharmi Tewa"> > > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an > entirely> > > different approach in case of a "Dharmi Tewa". Unlike a normal > Tewa the> > > planets in a "Dharmi-Tewa" behaves in a different way.> > > >> > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the > other day.> > > That point is regarding "Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli", > particularly in> > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.> > > >> > > > The consideration of "Nasht Ho Chukey Grah" is also necessary > (detail of> > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in > such cases> > > remedial measures are entirely different.> > > >> > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" > as a> > > major feature, because I have seen that the natives > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of > performing> > > numerous remedial measures.> > > >> > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to > determine the> > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and > sensitive part of> > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because > sometimes what> > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the > malefic> > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is > utmost urgent to> > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various > method> > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. "Budh Ka Bhed" > for> > > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and "Shani Ka > Zaati Swabhao"> > > for Saturn and so on.> > > >> > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in > a chart,> > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet > (rather its> > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about "Grah-Phal" and> > > "Rashi-Phal", because it is said in the very beginning of the > revered Lal> > > Kitab that "Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj > Nahee", it is> > > very clear from this phrase that the "Maut" (death) is "Grah-> Phal" and is> > > irremediable, whereas the "Beemari" (illness) is "Rashi-Phal" > and is> > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful while> > > recommending the remedies.> > > >> > > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any > miracle,> > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any > paranormal> > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the > remedies are> > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the > depressing energies> > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It > helps him to> > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight > the state> > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to > prevent the> > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably > helps him to> > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a > beast, he can> > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could > not trespass> > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.> > > >> > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using > Saam (by> > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by > Mischief) is> > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.> > > >> > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or > increasing the> > > bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular > planet for> > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles > related to a> > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones > favour.> > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a > particular> > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah> > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing > a common> > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that > is believed> > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) > etc.> > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the > positive> > > results of the suffering one.> > > >> > > >> > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > >> > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > > Respected members & moderators & owner> > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been > done in> > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic > stature to> > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also > that we> > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says > about> > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any > criteria to> > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or > not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli> > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as > lalkitab> > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its> > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we > analyze> > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of > them say to> > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan > kundali.Some assume> > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But > after cross> > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im > putting> > > this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My > personal> > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry > analyzations as> > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious > point of> > > views.Only> > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I > think> > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members > will> > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.> > > > With regards> > > > Lalkitabee> > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla> > > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?> > > > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.> > > >> > >> > > > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Yograj Jee, Umesh Jee, Nirmal Jee, Vipin Jee and all friends, My apologies for not jumping into this discussion earlier due to extreme busy-ness at work. Yograj jee wrote a wonderful reply earlier which in reality is an outline of a volume that can, hopefully, be written by him in the next few years. (This is my sincere hope.) Regarding the "Durusti" here is what I'd like to add. Every horoscope must be subjected to durusti before anything is done to/with it. One of the techniques though not recommmended in LalKitab that I use is to check the degrees of each planet and see which one is about to transit (or just did) to the next or previous (if retrograde) sign. I've found that the planets on border line (cusp??) can give the effects of a previous house even though it may have transited a couple of days before. Similarly,

for retrograde planets. Moon is a planet which causes more issues than any other which must be looked at carefully. Checking the ascendant and ascertaining its accuracy is of prime importance too. Birth time may or may not have been accurately recorded. When to record the actual time of birth is an issue that has been discussed in numerous articles in various esteemed journals. So, it falls on you, the LalKitabist to fine-tune the horoscope (but I am not at all recommending graha spashti or chalit) Pt Roop Chand Jee has given symptoms of many planets (and the tables at the end as mentioned by Umesh Jee) which may be of help. Even if the symptoms are not given, one may try to see if the halaat of the native match with what is written in the book. Now that other editions of LalKitab are available publicly (especially the 1939) one may try to use the principles of palmistry to validate the horoscope (will require a lot of practice,

though.) Another practice I follow (emulating the great one) is to go for the whole family's horoscope. Pitri rin's full utilization has not been described in LalKitab. However, when I see the symptoms of a planet being really malefic, I like to see the entire family's horoscopes. For example, if one's Mercury is bad, I find that pretty much the whole family's Mercury is posited badly (which will require the treatment for Pitri Rin for the entire family.) Just doing one upaya may not solve the problem - the whole family may be required to perform the Pitri Rin upaya. Trust me on this one Vipin Jee (although this is not described so in LalKitab.) Pandit Roop Chand Jee (used to) and Pt Som Dutt jee continues to use this technique very effectively. It is also possible that you find, for example, that one's Saturn is bad. You specify the

remedial measure and the native performs the measure with full faith and yet no curative effects are visible. Here may be why the upaya does not work. The native may be storing/keeping items prohibited in the case of Saturn in the household or, in the parental home or even one of the brothers (or a renter in the property) may have establsihed the prohibited articles like keeping liquor etc. or other Saturanian activities may continue to be performed which nullify the effect of the upaya. Or, the native's house may have defects (location, direction etc.) which compliment the evilness of Saturn and the upayas will refuse to be effective. Will write more as time permits. I invite your thoughts on this. Respectfully, Rajinder Bhatia lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Respected Nirmal ji Congrats. Dekho na bahut dino ke baad ek discussion bahut hi rochak tarike se shuru hua

hai aur agar yeh chaltaa rahaa to ho saktaa hai ki lalkitab – grammer ki bahut si Unsuljhi gutthiyaan sulajh jayengi.(Mere khyaal se aap lalkitab main Unsuljhi gutthiyon hain-- is baat se sehmat to honge hi) .Isi din ke liye to aapne group ke massages without moderation approve kiye they SHAYAD kuchh din pehely. Shukriya Umesh Bhai. Bas yahi aur yahi veh jawaab hai jo ki aapne diyaa hai. Bus itnaa aur spasht ker dain ki KYAA DURUSTI JAANCHNE KE LIYE

LIKHI GAYEE SAARNI KAFI HAI YA ISSE BHI AAGE KUCHH ANUBHAV KIYAA HAI LALKITAB KE SYSTEM MAIN AAPNEyadi durusti jaanchne ke baad bhi aur durusti concerned person ki problem se co.relate hone per bhi yadi 3 ya 4 din baad vahi insaan aapse aaker boley ki us din meraa time of birth galat thaa ya yun kahey ki meraa birth morning ka nahi night ka hai , aaj dobaaraa se sahi time ke mutabik dekhain to kyaa durusti hogi ya durusti kaa matlab kyaa hogaa us condition main, remedy to door ki cheez hai. YAAD RAHEY TODAY KUNDLIS R AT EACH

DESKTOP OR WEB UNDER A FINGER PRESS & AKSAR PANDIT JI DURUSTI SAHI NAA MILNE PER SAAF SAAF BOL DIYAA KARTEY THEY KI TEVAA THIK NAHI HAI. Unki is adaa ya yun kaho ki durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah aaj bhi hain. Agar vo is massage ko read karain to jaroor apne views share karain.Umesh Bhai rahi baat mere gyaani hone ki , is taarif ke liye shukriya, Lekin

Main bhi ek astrostudent ki haisiyat se hi is group main likh rahaa hoon. Yograj ji aap to aise bahut se logon ko jaantey hongey jo ki pandit ji ki is durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah rahe hon.Rajinder Bhatia ji bhi un gawahon main se ek hain. Aur Umesh ji ne thik hi request ki hai ki --- DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA kyonki jahaan tak main samajhtaa

hoon aapne apnaa jivan hi nahi bahut kuchh lalkitab Ke naam arpan ker diyaa hai. Aapke ek prayaas se hi aaj lalkitab itni approachable ho gayi hai ki bade bade tathaakathit HASTINAPUR NARESH jo ki ORIGINAL LAL kitaab ko padhnaa padhaanaa to door , dikhaanaa bhi kewal apni hi milkiyat samajhtey they,,, aaj haaaaaaath mal rahey

honge Ise kehtey hain ------ -"Jor ka jhatkaa dhire se lagey. " . I salute u for this devotion & achievement Yograj ji. As well as same to Nirmal ji. Nirmal Ji my question "about the remedy failure" doesn't concern the calculating to start from 8x1= 8. & I

was waiting in same manner AS 8X8 = ? Fir bhi agar koi start se hi start karey to kaho kyaa discussion ko stop ker diyaa jaaye. & As u told HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE") MY ANSWER IS ---- THIS IS AS AN ABUSEMENT TO

ME WITHOUT PROPER READING OF MY MAIL . I know nobody can reach the stature of pandit ji.But aasmaan ko chhoone ki koshish karne per aasmaan haath main aaye ya na aaye insaan ka kad to unchaa ho hi jaataa hai na. Aur is

group ka REASEARCH OREINTED maksad bhi to yahi hai mere vichaar se .Aapne aur jo bhi questions poochhey hain unkey jawaab bhi shayd is discussion se nikal jaayain.Ek baat aur---- maine bhi vahi prashn kiye hain previous mail main jo ki aap mujhse pooch rahey hain.Mujhe ummeed hai ki Mere questions ke answers milne per aapke sabhi questions ke bhi answers mil jayenge.Kyonki mere ya aapke ya kisi aur ke kuchh likh dene ka yeh matlab nahi ki

lalkitab ka siddhant poora ho gaya .kisi bhi result ya research tak pahunchne ke liye discussion ek maakool kasauti hai.Bus group ke active members ke response ka intejaar hai. Kyon Umesh ji thik hai na. With so much regard. lalkitabee V.K.shukla , "Umesh Sharma" <mudit982001 wrote:>> Respeced Nirmal ji,> AAPNEY PUCHA KI > "THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI > DURUSTI"> ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY APNI > PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN > UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI UPYOG > MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI HEY.JAHAN > TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI > TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR DEKHNEY > KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT >

NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI > HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE > CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE JIS > SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO > BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR > MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY > AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR > JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN > MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR YA > BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA > SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI DURUSTI > KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY BALKI > JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.> > AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA > GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY

VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN > RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH > JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY > HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE > LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY > HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB > SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN EK > PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK > UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN GALATI > KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY > HAIN? > > PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE > JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA. > > APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI > BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI

HOON.> THANKS> REGARDS> UMESH SHARMA > > > > > , NKB nirbhar@ wrote:> >> > Respected Shukla Ji,> > Namaskar,> > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long > mum. Your> > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have > tried to> > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish the > other> > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and in > Capital> > letters under respective paras> > > > > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > >> > > Respected Yograj ji> > >> > > Now this sentence> > >> > > "Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi> > >>

> > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi." is known all of > us bcause> > > all we r students here.But my question is still there about to > know the> > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or > incurable> > > MAUT. Bcause-------------> > >> > >> > >> > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where > all> > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard > stick at> > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates > another point> > > to debate.> > >> > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI > DURUSTI.> > >> > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial > part ,bcoz> > > lalkitab says> >

>> > > "Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh > akelaa (papi> > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga. > Now wat shud> > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-> > >> > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano > main paapi> > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?> > >> > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi > paapi grah> > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?> > >> > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)> > >> > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh > hoga tab> > > teva

nabalig hoga?> > >> > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in > band mutthi> > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?> > >> > > > > > > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT > ARISE> > >> > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in > 5th in a> > > kund> > >> > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of > tevaa this wil> > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other > side u really> > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this > fact to take> > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig > or nabalig.> > > But ur opinion is regardable .> > >> > > THE OVERALL

DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE PAAPI > GRAHS AND> > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED", WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF > SUN IN 5TH AND> > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG TEVA > AS> > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG > TEVA.> > >> > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani > rahu ketu,> > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA > JAATI> > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.> > >> > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER > PLANETS?> > >> > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S > OR OTHER> > > PLANETS ALSO.> > >> > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER

PLANET?> > >> > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .> > >> > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS DHARMI > TEVA, HOW> > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI > TEVA FRO> > > OTHERS."*> > >> > > > > > > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say > about failure> > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate > mail in> > > group if possible.> > >> > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE SON OR > FATHER'S> > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE > THIS IS> > > APPLICABLE.> > >> > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is >

self> > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG > created.Which r> > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant > be a yard> > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not > to any> > > particular person of next generation.> > >> > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH > IS RELATED> > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I > FEEL BOTH HAVE> > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.> > >> > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV, > GRAHFAL KA> > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.> > >> > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by > My Manas> > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in >

SAMVAT> > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, khana > no.2------Shani,> > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup> > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ---- > moon, no9> > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,> > >> > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-> > >> > >> > >> > > (i) nowhere any statement according to > Grahfal> > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .> > >> > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU > SWABHAV.> > >> > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad> > >> > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI > KE KHANE" But> > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both conditions> > >

fulfilled, What is considerable ?)> > >> > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa > also> > > visible.> > >> > >> > >> > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-> > >> > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal > no 6, Jis> > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri > shadi sooraj> > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi > huyee, 5 saal> > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne > bolnaa tha> > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se > kaata.> > >> > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa > hai , haan> > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation > thik nahi hogaa> > >> >

> Remedial Process at :--> > >> > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6 > tak rahega ,agar> > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa > hai,bachchey is> > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se> > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker > mandir main> > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.> > >> > > U told �"An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider > the "Pitri-Rin" as> > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of > performing> > > numerous remedial measures.> > >> > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think > there was> > > no need to

analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major > feature).Secondly how> > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to > mark> > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of > analyzation so we> > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview > of balig> > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is > balig or> > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig & > nabalig> > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig > hi lenge> > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main > aapke dwaaraa> > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use > kiyaa hai ya> > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki > gayee to

aap> > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.> > >> > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine > knowledge> > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im > again> > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.> > >> > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark > teve ki> > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after > analyzation> > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic & > benefic> > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh > ka bhed,> > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki > gayee vidhi> > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin > question bhi>

> > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa > harz hai.ButHow���.> > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is > y ---- I> > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria > to decide> > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc." remedy > karne ke baad> > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit > ji tabhi likh> > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin > na kahin per> > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey > huye koi ek> > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne > ke kabil> > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa > likhi ya> > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use

kartey huye > spashtikaran> > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne > parshn> > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group > main. Other> > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "> > >> > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE STATUS > OF PUNDIT> > > JI.> > >> > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE > QUESTIONS RAISED> > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET > PROPERTIES THESE> > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.> > >> > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.> > >> > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE > OCCURRENCE OF SUCH> > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,> > >> > > ·

HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.> > >> > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS > WITH SONS> > >> > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW > HUNDRED PAGES> > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE > GIVEN AISE HEE> > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> > >> > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:> > >> > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951. > PUNDIT JEE> > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE > HIS AGE THEN> > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK WRITTEN > IN 1940> > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU > HAVE> > >> > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI THAT

> PUNDIT JEE> > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW > EXAMINE THESE> > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE > OF UNDER 20> > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE > HOROSCOPE UPTO> > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT > LALKITAB> > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S > LAST PAGES.> > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF> > >> > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI > NEVER USED OR> > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.> > >> > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS > AFTER THE> > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY

> ITEMS ARE> > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT > DISCUSSED IN> > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A > TABULAR FORM.> > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE> > > ILLUSTRATION.> > >> > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH > EXPERIENCE AND> > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME > TOPIC, SOMETIMES> > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING> > >> > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE READERS > HAD ALREADY> > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.> > >> > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN > CHILDHOOD,> > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8.

PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE > ALREADY IN> > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION > AND> > > EXPERIENCE.> > >> > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION> > >> > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY > READING A SMALL> > > PART OF BOOK.> > >> > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN> > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK TO > MAKE IT> > > VOLUMINOUS.> > >> > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM > THE BOOK> > > ITSELF.> > >> > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE > WRONG> > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS ARE> > >> > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND

WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF > A PLANET IS> > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.> > >> > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF > EXAMPLES> > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.> > >> > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR > JUST DO> > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.> > >> > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC > APPROACH TO> > > LALKITAB.> > >> > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS > LIKE ME ARE> > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU" AS > WRITTEN IN THE> > > BOOK ITSELF.> > >> > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED FOR> > >

HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT > OF THE> > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK > SIMPLE BY> > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW > THAT THIS> > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW > GENERATION IS> > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND THE > OLDAGE> > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE > WORDS/PHRASES OF THE> > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING TO > LEFT BEHIND> > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.> > >> > > Best Regards> > >> > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

, Yograj Prabhakar > <yr_prabhakar@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,> > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my > good old> > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The > point he> > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do > remedies don't> > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the > professional> > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the > next> > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the > yardstick and> > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic > area in a> > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab >

practitioners are> > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often > diverge> > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main > thrust is to> > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and > undesired)> > > that is why they lack the "killer punch". This very impetuosity > is one of> > > the causes for a grand failure.> > > >> > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for > analysing a chart> > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior > colleagues.> > > >> > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the "Tewe > Ki> > > Darustee", I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh > Sharma ji, Mr.> > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji

and a handful > others) use this> > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client > and this> > > divine subject without a proper "Darustee" of the chart? Good > results can be> > > expected once an appropriate "Darustee" of the chart is done. > Pt. Ji advised> > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.> > > >> > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa > is "Baalig"> > > or "Naa-Baaligh", as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both > of these.> > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a "Na-Baaligh" will be different from the > normal one> > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-> 1941).> > > >> > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the "Dharmi Tewa"> > >

characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an > entirely> > > different approach in case of a "Dharmi Tewa". Unlike a normal > Tewa the> > > planets in a "Dharmi-Tewa" behaves in a different way.> > > >> > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the > other day.> > > That point is regarding "Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli", > particularly in> > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.> > > >> > > > The consideration of "Nasht Ho Chukey Grah" is also necessary > (detail of> > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in > such cases> > > remedial measures are entirely different.> > > >> > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" > as a> > > major

feature, because I have seen that the natives > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of > performing> > > numerous remedial measures.> > > >> > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to > determine the> > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and > sensitive part of> > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because > sometimes what> > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the > malefic> > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is > utmost urgent to> > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various > method> > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. "Budh Ka Bhed" > for> > > knowing the exact nature

of the planet Mercury and "Shani Ka > Zaati Swabhao"> > > for Saturn and so on.> > > >> > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in > a chart,> > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet > (rather its> > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about "Grah-Phal" and> > > "Rashi-Phal", because it is said in the very beginning of the > revered Lal> > > Kitab that "Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj > Nahee", it is> > > very clear from this phrase that the "Maut" (death) is "Grah-> Phal" and is> > > irremediable, whereas the "Beemari" (illness) is "Rashi-Phal" > and is> > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful while> > > recommending the remedies.> > > >> > > >

As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any > miracle,> > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any > paranormal> > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the > remedies are> > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the > depressing energies> > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It > helps him to> > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight > the state> > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to > prevent the> > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably > helps him to> > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a > beast, he can> > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could > not

trespass> > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.> > > >> > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using > Saam (by> > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by > Mischief) is> > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.> > > >> > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or > increasing the> > > bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular > planet for> > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles > related to a> > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones > favour.> > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or

keeping items of a > particular> > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah> > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing > a common> > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that > is believed> > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) > etc.> > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the > positive> > > results of the suffering one.> > > >> > > >> > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > >> > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > > Respected members & moderators & owner> > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been > done in> > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

> stature to> > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also > that we> > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says > about> > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any > criteria to> > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or > not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli> > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as > lalkitab> > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its> > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we > analyze> > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of > them say to> > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to

observe makaan > kundali.Some assume> > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But > after cross> > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im > putting> > > this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My > personal> > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry > analyzations as> > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious > point of> > > views.Only> > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I > think> > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members > will> > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.> > > > With regards> > > > Lalkitabee> > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla> > > >

Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?> > > > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.> > > >> > >> > > > > >> >>

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So much respected Bhatia ji .

Thanx for ur quick response. Ur reply is a milestone in this discussion. Aapki is mail se bahut se sawalon ka jawab mil jane chahiye. Khaas taur per unhain jo ki durusti ko sirf kisi grah ke taasir janne ka tarikaa maantey hain.Agar abhi bhi na pataa chaley to table 8x1=8 se nahi balki 2x1=2 se table start karna padega.8x8= ? ko kuchh din aur darkinar karnaa hoga.This is not a comment. Yeh to majboori hi hogi na.isiliye aisa likh rahaa hoon.

Respected Umesh ji & nirmal ji sirf tasir janna aur remedy likhna hi durusti ka maksad hai to poori lalkitab kya hai? Usmain bhi to pratyek grah ke nek aur bad roop ko likha gaya hai, yeh nek aur bad roop bhi to grahon ki tasir hi hain. Aise main alag se grammer likhne ki aur usmain durusti ka chapter daalne ki kyaa jaroorat thi.Tasir dekhker grahfal ya rashifal dekhker hi upay likhey ja sakety they.Lekin grammer fir bhi likhi gayee. Jahir hai ki iska bhi maksad to hoga hi na.Aur usmaim teve ki durusti ke barey main likhne ka maksad bhi sirf Umesh ji ke dwara likha gaya grah ki tasir janne tak seemit ker denaa kahaan tak aur kis tarah swikaar kiya jaaye.(jabki pandit ji to yahaan tak bol diyaa kartey they ki ghar se bahar nikal ker left main kyaa milegaa aur kitne saal se uska vazood hogaa ghar se left ki taraf. ) as teve ki durusti jaanch .

Respected Bhatia ji thanx again for ur kind, fruitful, knowledgeful & specially experienceful ,co.operation to get some more from this divine book..As u explained about Pitri Rin ,same views r mine at that.Let us wait for other active members.

With regards

Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla , Rajinder Bhatia <rajinderbhatia2002 wrote:>> Dear Yograj Jee, Umesh Jee, Nirmal Jee, Vipin Jee and all friends,> > My apologies for not jumping into this discussion earlier due to extreme busy-ness at work. Yograj jee wrote a wonderful reply earlier which in reality is an outline of a volume that can, hopefully, be written by him in the next few years. (This is my sincere hope.)> > Regarding the "Durusti" here is what I'd like to add. Every horoscope must be subjected to durusti before anything is done to/with it. One of the techniques though not recommmended in LalKitab that I use is to check the degrees of each planet and see which one is about to transit (or just did) to the next or previous (if retrograde) sign. I've found that the planets on border line (cusp??) can give the effects of a previous house even though it may have transited a couple of days before. Similarly, for retrograde planets. Moon is a planet which causes more issues than any other which must be looked at carefully. Checking the ascendant and ascertaining its accuracy is of prime importance too. Birth time may or may not have been accurately recorded. When to record the actual time of birth is an issue that has been discussed in numerous articles in various esteemed journals. So, it falls on you, the LalKitabist to fine-tune the horoscope (but I am not at all recommending> graha spashti or chalit) Pt Roop Chand Jee has given symptoms of many planets (and the tables at the end as mentioned by Umesh Jee) which may be of help. Even if the symptoms are not given, one may try to see if the halaat of the native match with what is written in the book. Now that other editions of LalKitab are available publicly (especially the 1939) one may try to use the principles of palmistry to validate the horoscope (will require a lot of practice, though.) > > Another practice I follow (emulating the great one) is to go for the whole family's horoscope. Pitri rin's full utilization has not been described in LalKitab. However, when I see the symptoms of a planet being really malefic, I like to see the entire family's horoscopes. For example, if one's Mercury is bad, I find that pretty much the whole family's Mercury is posited badly (which will require the treatment for Pitri Rin for the entire family.) Just doing one upaya may not solve the problem - the whole family may be required to perform the Pitri Rin upaya. Trust me on this one Vipin Jee (although this is not described so in LalKitab.) Pandit Roop Chand Jee (used to) and Pt Som Dutt jee continues to use this technique very effectively. > > It is also possible that you find, for example, that one's Saturn is bad. You specify the remedial measure and the native performs the measure with full faith and yet no curative effects are visible. Here may be why the upaya does not work. The native may be storing/keeping items prohibited in the case of Saturn in the household or, in the parental home or even one of the brothers (or a renter in the property) may have establsihed the prohibited articles like keeping liquor etc. or other Saturanian activities may continue to be performed which nullify the effect of the upaya. Or, the native's house may have defects (location, direction etc.) which compliment the evilness of Saturn and the upayas will refuse to be effective.> > Will write more as time permits. I invite your thoughts on this.> > Respectfully,> Rajinder Bhatia> > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee wrote:> > Respected Nirmal ji> Congrats. Dekho na bahut dino ke baad ek discussion bahut hi rochak tarike se shuru hua hai aur agar yeh chaltaa rahaa to ho saktaa hai ki lalkitab – grammer ki bahut si Unsuljhi gutthiyaan sulajh jayengi.(Mere khyaal se aap lalkitab main Unsuljhi gutthiyon hain-- is baat se sehmat to honge hi) .Isi din ke liye to aapne group ke massages without moderation approve kiye they SHAYAD kuchh din pehely.> Shukriya Umesh Bhai. Bas yahi aur yahi veh jawaab hai jo ki aapne diyaa hai. Bus itnaa aur spasht ker dain ki KYAA DURUSTI JAANCHNE KE LIYE LIKHI GAYEE SAARNI KAFI HAI YA ISSE BHI AAGE KUCHH ANUBHAV KIYAA HAI LALKITAB KE SYSTEM MAIN AAPNEyadi durusti jaanchne ke baad bhi aur durusti concerned person ki problem se co.relate hone per bhi yadi 3 ya 4 din baad vahi insaan aapse aaker boley ki us din meraa time of birth galat thaa ya yun kahey ki meraa birth morning ka nahi night ka hai , aaj dobaaraa se sahi time ke mutabik dekhain to kyaa durusti hogi ya durusti kaa matlab kyaa hogaa us condition main, remedy to door ki cheez hai. YAAD RAHEY TODAY KUNDLIS R AT EACH DESKTOP OR WEB UNDER A FINGER PRESS & AKSAR PANDIT JI DURUSTI SAHI NAA MILNE PER SAAF SAAF BOL DIYAA KARTEY THEY KI TEVAA THIK NAHI HAI. Unki is adaa ya yun kaho ki durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah aaj bhi hain. Agar vo is massage ko read karain to jaroor > apne views share karain.Umesh Bhai rahi baat mere gyaani hone ki , is taarif ke liye shukriya, Lekin Main bhi ek astrostudent ki haisiyat se hi is group main likh rahaa hoon. Yograj ji aap to aise bahut se logon ko jaantey hongey jo ki pandit ji ki is durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah rahe hon.Rajinder Bhatia ji bhi un gawahon main se ek hain.> Aur Umesh ji ne thik hi request ki hai ki --- DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA kyonki jahaan tak main samajhtaa hoon aapne apnaa jivan hi nahi bahut kuchh lalkitab Ke naam arpan ker diyaa hai. Aapke ek prayaas se hi aaj lalkitab itni approachable ho gayi hai ki bade bade tathaakathit HASTINAPUR NARESH jo ki ORIGINAL LAL kitaab ko padhnaa padhaanaa to door , dikhaanaa bhi kewal apni hi milkiyat samajhtey they,,, aaj haaaaaaath mal rahey honge > Ise kehtey hain ------ -"Jor ka jhatkaa dhire se lagey. "> . > I salute u for this devotion & achievement Yograj ji. As well as same to Nirmal ji.> Nirmal Ji my question "about the remedy failure" doesn't concern the calculating to start from 8x1= 8. & I was waiting in same manner AS 8X8 = ? Fir bhi agar koi start se hi start karey to kaho kyaa discussion ko stop ker diyaa jaaye. & As u told HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> MY ANSWER IS ---- THIS IS AS AN ABUSEMENT TO ME WITHOUT PROPER READING OF MY MAIL .> I know nobody can reach the stature of pandit ji.But aasmaan ko chhoone ki koshish karne per aasmaan haath main aaye ya na aaye insaan ka kad to unchaa ho hi jaataa hai na. Aur is group ka REASEARCH OREINTED maksad bhi to yahi hai mere vichaar se .Aapne aur jo bhi questions poochhey hain unkey jawaab bhi shayd is discussion se nikal jaayain.Ek baat aur---- maine bhi vahi prashn kiye hain previous mail main jo ki aap mujhse pooch rahey hain.Mujhe ummeed hai ki Mere questions ke answers milne per aapke sabhi questions ke bhi answers mil jayenge.Kyonki mere ya aapke ya kisi aur ke kuchh likh dene ka yeh matlab nahi ki lalkitab ka siddhant poora ho gaya .kisi bhi result ya research tak pahunchne ke liye discussion ek maakool kasauti hai.Bus group ke active members ke response ka intejaar hai. Kyon Umesh ji thik hai na.> With so much regard.> lalkitabee V.K.shukla> > > > > > , "Umesh Sharma" mudit982001@ wrote:> >> > Respeced Nirmal ji,> > AAPNEY PUCHA KI > > "THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI > > DURUSTI"> > ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY APNI > > PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN > > UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI UPYOG > > MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI HEY.JAHAN > > TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI > > TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR DEKHNEY > > KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT > > NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI > > HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE > > CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE JIS > > SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO > > BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR > > MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY > > AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR > > JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN > > MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR YA > > BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA > > SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI DURUSTI > > KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY BALKI > > JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.> > > > AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA > > GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN > > RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH > > JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY > > HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE > > LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY > > HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB > > SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN EK > > PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK > > UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN GALATI > > KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY > > HAIN? > > > > PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE > > JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA. > > > > APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI > > BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.> > THANKS> > REGARDS> > UMESH SHARMA > > > > > > > > > > , NKB nirbhar@ wrote:> > >> > > Respected Shukla Ji,> > > Namaskar,> > > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long > > mum. Your> > > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have > > tried to> > > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish the > > other> > > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and in > > Capital> > > letters under respective paras> > > > > > > > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Yograj ji> > > >> > > > Now this sentence> > > >> > > > "Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi> > > >> > > > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi." is known all of > > us bcause> > > > all we r students here.But my question is still there about to > > know the> > > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or > > incurable> > > > MAUT. Bcause-------------> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point where > > all> > > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard > > stick at> > > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates > > another point> > > > to debate.> > > >> > > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI > > DURUSTI.> > > >> > > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial > > part ,bcoz> > > > lalkitab says> > > >> > > > "Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh > > akelaa (papi> > > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga. > > Now wat shud> > > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-> > > >> > > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano > > main paapi> > > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?> > > >> > > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi > > paapi grah> > > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?> > > >> > > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)> > > >> > > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh > > hoga tab> > > > teva nabalig hoga?> > > >> > > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in > > band mutthi> > > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT > > ARISE> > > >> > > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in > > 5th in a> > > > kund> > > >> > > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of > > tevaa this wil> > > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other > > side u really> > > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this > > fact to take> > > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig > > or nabalig.> > > > But ur opinion is regardable .> > > >> > > > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE PAAPI > > GRAHS AND> > > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED", WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF > > SUN IN 5TH AND> > > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG TEVA > > AS> > > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG > > TEVA.> > > >> > > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani > > rahu ketu,> > > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA > > JAATI> > > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.> > > >> > > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER > > PLANETS?> > > >> > > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S > > OR OTHER> > > > PLANETS ALSO.> > > >> > > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?> > > >> > > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .> > > >> > > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS DHARMI > > TEVA, HOW> > > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI > > TEVA FRO> > > > OTHERS."*> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say > > about failure> > > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a seprate > > mail in> > > > group if possible.> > > >> > > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE SON OR > > FATHER'S> > > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE > > THIS IS> > > > APPLICABLE.> > > >> > > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is > > self> > > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG > > created.Which r> > > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant > > be a yard> > > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation, not > > to any> > > > particular person of next generation.> > > >> > > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH > > IS RELATED> > > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I > > FEEL BOTH HAVE> > > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.> > > >> > > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV, > > GRAHFAL KA> > > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.> > > >> > > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by > > My Manas> > > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned in > > SAMVAT> > > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, khana > > no.2------Shani,> > > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----Sun.Ven,Jup> > > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ---- > > moon, no9> > > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,> > > >> > > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > (i) nowhere any statement according to > > Grahfal> > > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .> > > >> > > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU > > SWABHAV.> > > >> > > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad> > > >> > > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI > > KE KHANE" But> > > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both conditions> > > > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)> > > >> > > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa > > also> > > > visible.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-> > > >> > > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal > > no 6, Jis> > > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri > > shadi sooraj> > > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi > > huyee, 5 saal> > > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne > > bolnaa tha> > > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se > > kaata.> > > >> > > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa > > hai , haan> > > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation > > thik nahi hogaa> > > >> > > > Remedial Process at :--> > > >> > > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6 > > tak rahega ,agar> > > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa > > hai,bachchey is> > > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath se> > > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker > > mandir main> > > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.> > > >> > > > U told �"An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider > > the "Pitri-Rin" as> > > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives > > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of > > performing> > > > numerous remedial measures.> > > >> > > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think > > there was> > > > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major > > feature).Secondly how> > > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling to > > mark> > > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of > > analyzation so we> > > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview > > of balig> > > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is > > balig or> > > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig & > > nabalig> > > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig > > hi lenge> > > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main > > aapke dwaaraa> > > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use > > kiyaa hai ya> > > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki > > gayee to aap> > > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.> > > >> > > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine > > knowledge> > > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im > > again> > > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.> > > >> > > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to mark > > teve ki> > > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken after > > analyzation> > > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic & > > benefic> > > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used ,budh > > ka bhed,> > > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki > > gayee vidhi> > > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin > > question bhi> > > > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa > > harz hai.ButHow���.> > > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is > > y ---- I> > > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden criteria > > to decide> > > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc." remedy > > karne ke baad> > > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit > > ji tabhi likh> > > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin > > na kahin per> > > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey > > huye koi ek> > > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne > > ke kabil> > > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa > > likhi ya> > > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye > > spashtikaran> > > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne > > parshn> > > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group > > main. Other> > > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "> > > >> > > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE STATUS > > OF PUNDIT> > > > JI.> > > >> > > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE > > QUESTIONS RAISED> > > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET > > PROPERTIES THESE> > > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.> > > >> > > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.> > > >> > > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE > > OCCURRENCE OF SUCH> > > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,> > > >> > > > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.> > > >> > > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS > > WITH SONS> > > >> > > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW > > HUNDRED PAGES> > > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE > > GIVEN AISE HEE> > > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> > > >> > > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:> > > >> > > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951. > > PUNDIT JEE> > > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE > > HIS AGE THEN> > > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK WRITTEN > > IN 1940> > > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU > > HAVE> > > >> > > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI THAT > > PUNDIT JEE> > > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW > > EXAMINE THESE> > > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE > > OF UNDER 20> > > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE > > HOROSCOPE UPTO> > > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT > > LALKITAB> > > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S > > LAST PAGES.> > > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF> > > >> > > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI > > NEVER USED OR> > > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.> > > >> > > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS > > AFTER THE> > > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY > > ITEMS ARE> > > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT > > DISCUSSED IN> > > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A > > TABULAR FORM.> > > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE> > > > ILLUSTRATION.> > > >> > > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH > > EXPERIENCE AND> > > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME > > TOPIC, SOMETIMES> > > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING> > > >> > > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE READERS > > HAD ALREADY> > > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.> > > >> > > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN > > CHILDHOOD,> > > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE > > ALREADY IN> > > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION > > AND> > > > EXPERIENCE.> > > >> > > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION> > > >> > > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY > > READING A SMALL> > > > PART OF BOOK.> > > >> > > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN> > > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK TO > > MAKE IT> > > > VOLUMINOUS.> > > >> > > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM > > THE BOOK> > > > ITSELF.> > > >> > > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE > > WRONG> > > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS ARE> > > >> > > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF > > A PLANET IS> > > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.> > > >> > > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF > > EXAMPLES> > > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.> > > >> > > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR > > JUST DO> > > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.> > > >> > > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC > > APPROACH TO> > > > LALKITAB.> > > >> > > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS > > LIKE ME ARE> > > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU" AS > > WRITTEN IN THE> > > > BOOK ITSELF.> > > >> > > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED FOR> > > > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT > > OF THE> > > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK > > SIMPLE BY> > > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW > > THAT THIS> > > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW > > GENERATION IS> > > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND THE > > OLDAGE> > > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE > > WORDS/PHRASES OF THE> > > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING TO > > LEFT BEHIND> > > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.> > > >> > > > Best Regards> > > >> > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Yograj Prabhakar > > <yr_prabhakar@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,> > > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my > > good old> > > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The > > point he> > > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do > > remedies don't> > > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the > > professional> > > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the > > next> > > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the > > yardstick and> > > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic > > area in a> > > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab > > practitioners are> > > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they often > > diverge> > > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main > > thrust is to> > > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and > > undesired)> > > > that is why they lack the "killer punch". This very impetuosity > > is one of> > > > the causes for a grand failure.> > > > >> > > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for > > analysing a chart> > > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior > > colleagues.> > > > >> > > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the "Tewe > > Ki> > > > Darustee", I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh > > Sharma ji, Mr.> > > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful > > others) use this> > > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client > > and this> > > > divine subject without a proper "Darustee" of the chart? Good > > results can be> > > > expected once an appropriate "Darustee" of the chart is done. > > Pt. Ji advised> > > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.> > > > >> > > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa > > is "Baalig"> > > > or "Naa-Baaligh", as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both > > of these.> > > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a "Na-Baaligh" will be different from the > > normal one> > > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-> > 1941).> > > > >> > > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the "Dharmi Tewa"> > > > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an > > entirely> > > > different approach in case of a "Dharmi Tewa". Unlike a normal > > Tewa the> > > > planets in a "Dharmi-Tewa" behaves in a different way.> > > > >> > > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the > > other day.> > > > That point is regarding "Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli", > > particularly in> > > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.> > > > >> > > > > The consideration of "Nasht Ho Chukey Grah" is also necessary > > (detail of> > > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in > > such cases> > > > remedial measures are entirely different.> > > > >> > > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the "Pitri-Rin" > > as a> > > > major feature, because I have seen that the natives > > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of > > performing> > > > numerous remedial measures.> > > > >> > > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to > > determine the> > > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and > > sensitive part of> > > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because > > sometimes what> > > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the > > malefic> > > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is > > utmost urgent to> > > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various > > method> > > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. "Budh Ka Bhed" > > for> > > > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and "Shani Ka > > Zaati Swabhao"> > > > for Saturn and so on.> > > > >> > > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in > > a chart,> > > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet > > (rather its> > > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about "Grah-Phal" and> > > > "Rashi-Phal", because it is said in the very beginning of the > > revered Lal> > > > Kitab that "Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj > > Nahee", it is> > > > very clear from this phrase that the "Maut" (death) is "Grah-> > Phal" and is> > > > irremediable, whereas the "Beemari" (illness) is "Rashi-Phal" > > and is> > > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful while> > > > recommending the remedies.> > > > >> > > > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any > > miracle,> > > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any > > paranormal> > > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the > > remedies are> > > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the > > depressing energies> > > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It > > helps him to> > > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and fight > > the state> > > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to > > prevent the> > > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably > > helps him to> > > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a > > beast, he can> > > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could > > not trespass> > > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.> > > > >> > > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using > > Saam (by> > > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by > > Mischief) is> > > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.> > > > >> > > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or > > increasing the> > > > bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular > > planet for> > > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles > > related to a> > > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones > > favour.> > > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a > > particular> > > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee Grah> > > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, establishing > > a common> > > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet that > > is believed> > > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) > > etc.> > > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the > > positive> > > > results of the suffering one.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > > >> > > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > > > Respected members & moderators & owner> > > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been > > done in> > > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic > > stature to> > > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also > > that we> > > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> > > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says > > about> > > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any > > criteria to> > > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or > > not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & janmkundli> > > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as > > lalkitab> > > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its> > > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we > > analyze> > > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of > > them say to> > > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan > > kundali.Some assume> > > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But > > after cross> > > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So im > > putting> > > > this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My > > personal> > > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry > > analyzations as> > > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious > > point of> > > > views.Only> > > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I > > think> > > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members > > will> > > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.> > > > > With regards> > > > > Lalkitabee> > > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla> > > > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?> > > > > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Don't be flakey. Get Mail for Mobile and > always stay connected to friends.>

[Guest guest]

Dear Lalkitabi ji,

Plz read answers below your querry.

Umesh Sharma

, " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee

wrote:

> Respected Nirmal ji

>

> Congrats. Dekho na bahut dino ke baad ek discussion bahut hi

rochak

> tarike se shuru hua hai aur agar yeh chaltaa rahaa to ho

saktaa hai

> ki lalkitab – grammer ki bahut si Unsuljhi gutthiyaan sulajh

> jayengi.(Mere khyaal se aap lalkitab main Unsuljhi gutthiyon

hain--

> is baat se sehmat to honge hi) .Isi din ke liye to aapne group ke

> massages without moderation approve kiye they SHAYAD kuchh din

> pehely.

>

> Shukriya Umesh Bhai. Bas yahi aur yahi veh jawaab

hai jo ki

> aapne diyaa hai. Bus itnaa aur spasht ker dain ki KYAA DURUSTI

> JAANCHNE KE LIYE LIKHI GAYEE SAARNI KAFI HAI

ANS:JI BILKUL.

YA ISSE BHI AAGE KUCHH ANUBHAV KIYAA HAI LALKITAB KE SYSTEM

MAIN AAPNE

ANS: JI BAHUT KUCH

yadi durusti jaanchne ke baad bhi aur durusti concerned person ki

problem se co.relate hone per bhi yadi 3 ya 4 din baad vahi insaan

aapse aaker boley ki us din meraa time of birth galat thaa ya yun

kahey ki meraa birth morning ka nahi night ka hai , aaj dobaaraa se

sahi time ke mutabik dekhain to kyaa durusti hogi ya durusti kaa

matlab kyaa hogaa us condition main,remedy to door ki cheez hai.

ANS: LALKITABI BHAI, PHIR ASTROLOGER KI KYA KABLIYAT HEY? AGAR VAH

ES BAT KO NAHIN JAN PATA. DURUSTI KA ARTH HI YEHI HEY YE JAN LENA KI

KUNDLI KE GRAH AUR VYAKTI KE HALAT AAPAS MAIN MEL KHATEY HAIN KI

NAHIN.

 

YAAD RAHEY TODAY KUNDLIS R AT EACH DESKTOP OR WEB UNDER A

FINGER PRESS & AKSAR PANDIT JI DURUSTI SAHI NAA MILNE PER

SAAF SAAF BOL DIYAA KARTEY THEY KI TEVAA THIK NAHI HAI. Unki

is adaa ya yun kaho ki durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah aaj bhi

hain. Agar vo is massage ko read karain to jaroor apne views

share karain.

ANS: JANAB VO EK MAHAN VYAKTIV THE.

Umesh Bhai rahi baat mere gyaani hone ki , is taarif ke liye

shukriya, Lekin Main bhi ek astrostudent ki haisiyat se hi is

group main likh rahaa hoon.

ANS:PARNTOO JANAB YAHAN SABHI STUDENT HAIN ESLIYE AAPSEY HI PRARTHNA

HEY KI ES VISHAY PAR KUCH AAP HI DISHA NIRDESH DAIN.

 

UMESH SHARMA

Yograj ji

> aap to aise bahut se logon ko jaantey hongey jo ki pandit ji

ki is durusti prakriyaa ke gawaah rahe hon.Rajinder Bhatia ji

bhi un gawahon main se ek hain.

>

> Aur Umesh ji ne thik hi request ki hai ki --- DOSE JARA

HALKI

> DIYA KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI

LEGA

> kyonki jahaan tak main samajhtaa hoon aapne apnaa jivan hi

nahi

> bahut kuchh lalkitab Ke naam arpan ker diyaa hai. Aapke ek

prayaas

> se hi aaj lalkitab itni approachable ho gayi hai ki bade

bade

> tathaakathit HASTINAPUR NARESH jo ki ORIGINAL LAL kitaab ko

> padhnaa padhaanaa to door , dikhaanaa bhi kewal apni hi

milkiyat

> samajhtey they,,, aaj haaaaaaath mal rahey honge

>

> Ise kehtey hain ------ - " Jor ka jhatkaa dhire se lagey. "

>

> .

>

> I salute u for this devotion & achievement Yograj ji. As

well as

> same to Nirmal ji.

>

> Nirmal Ji my question " about the remedy failure " doesn't

> concern the calculating to start from 8x1= 8. & I was waiting

in

> same manner AS 8X8 = ? Fir bhi agar koi start se hi start

karey to

> kaho kyaa discussion ko stop ker diyaa jaaye. & As u told

HOW

> MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES OF

LALKITAB

> (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY

PUNDIT

> JI AND OF NO USE " )

>

> MY ANSWER IS ---- THIS IS AS AN ABUSEMENT TO ME WITHOUT

> PROPER READING OF MY MAIL .

>

> I know nobody can reach the stature of pandit ji.But aasmaan

ko

> chhoone ki koshish karne per aasmaan haath main aaye ya

na

> aaye insaan ka kad to unchaa ho hi jaataa hai na. Aur is

group

> ka REASEARCH OREINTED maksad bhi to yahi hai mere vichaar

se .Aapne

> aur jo bhi questions poochhey hain unkey jawaab bhi shayd

is

> discussion se nikal jaayain.Ek baat aur---- maine bhi vahi

prashn

> kiye hain previous mail main jo ki aap mujhse pooch rahey

hain.Mujhe

> ummeed hai ki Mere questions ke answers milne per aapke sabhi

> questions ke bhi answers mil jayenge.Kyonki mere ya aapke ya

kisi aur

> ke kuchh likh dene ka yeh matlab nahi ki lalkitab ka siddhant

> poora ho gaya .kisi bhi result ya research tak pahunchne ke

liye

> discussion ek maakool kasauti hai.Bus group ke active

members ke

> response ka intejaar hai. Kyon Umesh ji thik hai na.

>

> With so much regard.

>

> lalkitabee V.K.shukla

>

>

>

>

>

, " Umesh Sharma " <mudit982001@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Respeced Nirmal ji,

> > AAPNEY PUCHA KI

> > " THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI

> > DURUSTI "

> > ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY

APNI

> > PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN

> > UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI

UPYOG

> > MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI

HEY.JAHAN

> > TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI

> > TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR

DEKHNEY

> > KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT

> > NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI

> > HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE

> > CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE

JIS

> > SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO

> > BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR

> > MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY

> > AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR

> > JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN

> > MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR

YA

> > BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA

> > SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI

DURUSTI

> > KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY

BALKI

> > JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.

> >

> > AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA

> > GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN

> > RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH

> > JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY

> > HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE

> > LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY

> > HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB

> > SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN

EK

> > PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK

> > UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN

GALATI

> > KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY

> > HAIN?

> >

> > PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE

> > JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA.

> >

> > APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI

> > BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.

> > THANKS

> > REGARDS

> > UMESH SHARMA

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , NKB nirbhar@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Shukla Ji,

> > > Namaskar,

> > > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a

long

> > mum. Your

> > > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I

have

> > tried to

> > > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish

the

> > other

> > > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue

and in

> > Capital

> > > letters under respective paras

> > >

> > >

> > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Yograj ji

> > > >

> > > > Now this sentence

> > > >

> > > > " Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi

> > > >

> > > > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi. " is known all of

> > us bcause

> > > > all we r students here.But my question is still there about

to

> > know the

> > > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or

> > incurable

> > > > MAUT. Bcause-------------

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point

where

> > all

> > > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard

> > stick at

> > > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates

> > another point

> > > > to debate.

> > > >

> > > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE

KI

> > DURUSTI.

> > > >

> > > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial

> > part ,bcoz

> > > > lalkitab says

> > > >

> > > > " Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh

> > akelaa (papi

> > > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga.

> > Now wat shud

> > > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-

> > > >

> > > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano

> > main paapi

> > > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?

> > > >

> > > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi

> > paapi grah

> > > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?

> > > >

> > > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)

> > > >

> > > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh

> > hoga tab

> > > > teva nabalig hoga?

> > > >

> > > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in

> > band mutthi

> > > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT

> > ARISE

> > > >

> > > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in

> > 5th in a

> > > > kund

> > > >

> > > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of

> > tevaa this wil

> > > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other

> > side u really

> > > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore

this

> > fact to take

> > > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of

balig

> > or nabalig.

> > > > But ur opinion is regardable .

> > > >

> > > > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE

PAAPI

> > GRAHS AND

> > > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED " , WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF

> > SUN IN 5TH AND

> > > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG

TEVA

> > AS

> > > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG

> > TEVA.

> > > >

> > > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of

shani

> > rahu ketu,

> > > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI

KA

> > JAATI

> > > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.

> > > >

> > > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER

> > PLANETS?

> > > >

> > > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-

SATURN'S

> > OR OTHER

> > > > PLANETS ALSO.

> > > >

> > > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?

> > > >

> > > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .

> > > >

> > > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS

DHARMI

> > TEVA, HOW

> > > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI

> > TEVA FRO

> > > > OTHERS. " *

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say

> > about failure

> > > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a

seprate

> > mail in

> > > > group if possible.

> > > >

> > > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE SON

OR

> > FATHER'S

> > > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS

WHERE

> > THIS IS

> > > > APPLICABLE.

> > > >

> > > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is

> > self

> > > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG

> > created.Which r

> > > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa

cant

> > be a yard

> > > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation,

not

> > to any

> > > > particular person of next generation.

> > > >

> > > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH

> > IS RELATED

> > > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I

> > FEEL BOTH HAVE

> > > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.

> > > >

> > > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV,

> > GRAHFAL KA

> > > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.

> > > >

> > > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by

> > My Manas

> > > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned

in

> > SAMVAT

> > > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty,

khana

> > no.2------Shani,

> > > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----

Sun.Ven,Jup

> > > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ----

> > moon, no9

> > > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,

> > > >

> > > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > (i) nowhere any statement according to

> > Grahfal

> > > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .

> > > >

> > > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU

> > SWABHAV.

> > > >

> > > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad

> > > >

> > > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI

> > KE KHANE " But

> > > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both

conditions

> > > > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)

> > > >

> > > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa

> > also

> > > > visible.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-

> > > >

> > > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal

> > no 6, Jis

> > > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2,

Doosri

> > shadi sooraj

> > > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi

> > huyee, 5 saal

> > > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon

ne

> > bolnaa tha

> > > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se

> > kaata.

> > > >

> > > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa

> > hai , haan

> > > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation

> > thik nahi hogaa

> > > >

> > > > Remedial Process at :--

> > > >

> > > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6

> > tak rahega ,agar

> > > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa

> > hai,bachchey is

> > > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke

haath se

> > > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker

> > mandir main

> > > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.

> > > >

> > > > U told � " An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider

> > the " Pitri-Rin " as

> > > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives

> > having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> > performing

> > > > numerous remedial measures.

> > > >

> > > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think

> > there was

> > > > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major

> > feature).Secondly how

> > > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling

to

> > mark

> > > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of

> > analyzation so we

> > > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in

perview

> > of balig

> > > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is

> > balig or

> > > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig &

> > nabalig

> > > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to

balig

> > hi lenge

> > > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main

> > aapke dwaaraa

> > > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise

use

> > kiyaa hai ya

> > > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use

ki

> > gayee to aap

> > > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.

> > > >

> > > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine

> > knowledge

> > > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im

> > again

> > > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.

> > > >

> > > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to

mark

> > teve ki

> > > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken

after

> > analyzation

> > > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic

&

> > benefic

> > > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where

used ,budh

> > ka bhed,

> > > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki

> > gayee vidhi

> > > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin

> > question bhi

> > > > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa

> > harz hai.ButHow���.

> > > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is

> > y ---- I

> > > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden

criteria

> > to decide

> > > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc. "

remedy

> > karne ke baad

> > > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa

pandit

> > ji tabhi likh

> > > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur

kahin

> > na kahin per

> > > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision

kartey

> > huye koi ek

> > > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella

banne

> > ke kabil

> > > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa

> > likhi ya

> > > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye

> > spashtikaran

> > > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke

saamne

> > parshn

> > > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is

group

> > main. Other

> > > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "

> > > >

> > > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE

STATUS

> > OF PUNDIT

> > > > JI.

> > > >

> > > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE

> > QUESTIONS RAISED

> > > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET

> > PROPERTIES THESE

> > > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.

> > > >

> > > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.

> > > >

> > > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE

> > OCCURRENCE OF SUCH

> > > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN

IT,

> > > >

> > > > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.

> > > >

> > > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS

> > WITH SONS

> > > >

> > > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW

> > HUNDRED PAGES

> > > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE

> > GIVEN AISE HEE

> > > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE " )

> > > >

> > > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:

> > > >

> > > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951.

> > PUNDIT JEE

> > > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD

BE

> > HIS AGE THEN

> > > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK

WRITTEN

> > IN 1940

> > > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT

YOU

> > HAVE

> > > >

> > > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI

THAT

> > PUNDIT JEE

> > > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW

> > EXAMINE THESE

> > > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD

EXPERIENCE

> > OF UNDER 20

> > > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE

> > HOROSCOPE UPTO

> > > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH

ABOUT

> > LALKITAB

> > > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S

> > LAST PAGES.

> > > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF

> > > >

> > > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI

> > NEVER USED OR

> > > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.

> > > >

> > > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS

> > AFTER THE

> > > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO

MANY

> > ITEMS ARE

> > > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT

> > DISCUSSED IN

> > > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A

> > TABULAR FORM.

> > > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA

WISE

> > > > ILLUSTRATION.

> > > >

> > > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH

> > EXPERIENCE AND

> > > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME

> > TOPIC, SOMETIMES

> > > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING

> > > >

> > > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE

READERS

> > HAD ALREADY

> > > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.

> > > >

> > > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN

> > CHILDHOOD,

> > > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE

HAVE

> > ALREADY IN

> > > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL

REVISION

> > AND

> > > > EXPERIENCE.

> > > >

> > > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION

> > > >

> > > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY

> > READING A SMALL

> > > > PART OF BOOK.

> > > >

> > > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN

> > > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE

BOOK TO

> > MAKE IT

> > > > VOLUMINOUS.

> > > >

> > > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM

> > THE BOOK

> > > > ITSELF.

> > > >

> > > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE

> > WRONG

> > > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING

ASTROLOGERS ARE

> > > >

> > > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF

> > A PLANET IS

> > > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.

> > > >

> > > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF

> > EXAMPLES

> > > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.

> > > >

> > > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR

> > JUST DO

> > > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO

CAUSE.

> > > >

> > > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC

> > APPROACH TO

> > > > LALKITAB.

> > > >

> > > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS

> > LIKE ME ARE

> > > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU " AS

> > WRITTEN IN THE

> > > > BOOK ITSELF.

> > > >

> > > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE

USED FOR

> > > > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT

SPIRIT

> > OF THE

> > > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK

> > SIMPLE BY

> > > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW

> > THAT THIS

> > > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW

> > GENERATION IS

> > > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND

THE

> > OLDAGE

> > > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE

> > WORDS/PHRASES OF THE

> > > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING

TO

> > LEFT BEHIND

> > > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.

> > > >

> > > > Best Regards

> > > >

> > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> > > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from

my

> > good old

> > > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum.

The

> > point he

> > > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do

> > remedies don't

> > > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the

> > professional

> > > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now

the

> > next

> > > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the

> > yardstick and

> > > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the

problematic

> > area in a

> > > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab

> > practitioners are

> > > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they

often

> > diverge

> > > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their

main

> > thrust is to

> > > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and

> > undesired)

> > > > that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very

impetuosity

> > is one of

> > > > the causes for a grand failure.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for

> > analysing a chart

> > > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior

> > colleagues.

> > > > >

> > > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is

the " Tewe

> > Ki

> > > > Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh

> > Sharma ji, Mr.

> > > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful

> > others) use this

> > > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the

client

> > and this

> > > > divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of the chart? Good

> > results can be

> > > > expected once an appropriate " Darustee " of the chart is done.

> > Pt. Ji advised

> > > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.

> > > > >

> > > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the

Tewa

> > is " Baalig "

> > > > or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for

both

> > of these.

> > > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be different from

the

> > normal one

> > > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa

(GuTka)-

> > 1941).

> > > > >

> > > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi

Tewa "

> > > > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an

> > entirely

> > > > different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a

normal

> > Tewa the

> > > > planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the

> > other day.

> > > > That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

> > particularly in

> > > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.

> > > > >

> > > > > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also

necessary

> > (detail of

> > > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in

> > such cases

> > > > remedial measures are entirely different.

> > > > >

> > > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-

Rin "

> > as a

> > > > major feature, because I have seen that the natives

> > having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> > performing

> > > > numerous remedial measures.

> > > > >

> > > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to

> > determine the

> > > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and

> > sensitive part of

> > > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because

> > sometimes what

> > > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once

the

> > malefic

> > > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is

> > utmost urgent to

> > > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various

> > method

> > > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka

Bhed "

> > for

> > > > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and " Shani Ka

> > Zaati Swabhao "

> > > > for Saturn and so on.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic

planet in

> > a chart,

> > > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet

> > (rather its

> > > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-

Phal " and

> > > > " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of the

> > revered Lal

> > > > Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj

> > Nahee " , it is

> > > > very clear from this phrase that the " Maut " (death) is " Grah-

> > Phal " and is

> > > > irremediable, whereas the " Beemari " (illness) is " Rashi-Phal "

> > and is

> > > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful

while

> > > > recommending the remedies.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect

any

> > miracle,

> > > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any

> > paranormal

> > > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the

> > remedies are

> > > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the

> > depressing energies

> > > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him.

It

> > helps him to

> > > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and

fight

> > the state

> > > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to

> > prevent the

> > > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably

> > helps him to

> > > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a

> > beast, he can

> > > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature

could

> > not trespass

> > > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

> > > > >

> > > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by

using

> > Saam (by

> > > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by

> > Mischief) is

> > > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or

> > increasing the

> > > > bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular

> > planet for

> > > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles

> > related to a

> > > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones

> > favour.

> > > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of

a

> > particular

> > > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee

Grah

> > > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible,

establishing

> > a common

> > > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet

that

> > is believed

> > > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for

Rahu)

> > etc.

> > > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance

the

> > positive

> > > > results of the suffering one.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > >

> > > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > > > Respected members & moderators & owner

> > > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has

been

> > done in

> > > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

> > stature to

> > > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me

also

> > that we

> > > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> > > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says

> > about

> > > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

> > criteria to

> > > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or

> > not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal &

janmkundli

> > > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as

> > lalkitab

> > > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its

> > > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud

we

> > analyze

> > > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of

> > them say to

> > > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan

> > kundali.Some assume

> > > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But

> > after cross

> > > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me

accentric.So im

> > putting

> > > > this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My

> > personal

> > > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry

> > analyzations as

> > > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or

religious

> > point of

> > > > views.Only

> > > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of

lallkitab.I

> > think

> > > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned

members

> > will

> > > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> > > > > With regards

> > > > > Lalkitabee

> > > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla

> > > > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > TV dinner still cooling?

> > > > > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Bhatia ji thanx again for ur kind, fruitful,

> knowledgeful & specially experienceful ,co.operation to get some

more

> from this divine book..As u explained about Pitri Rin ,same views

r mine

> at that.Let us wait for other active members.

>

> With regards

>

> Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla

DEAR LALKITABEE V.K.SHUKLA JI,

KYA AAP HUMAIN YEH BATA SAKTEY HAIN KI JAB AAP KISI GROUP MAIN

KUNDLEE KO ANALYSIS KARTAIN HAIN TO USMAIN PITRI RIN DEKHTEAIN HAIN

YADI HAAN TO KYA AAPNEY KABHI KISI KI PURI FAMILY KI KUNDLIYAAN

MAANGI HAIN. YADI YE SAHI HEY TO KOI BHI EK UDHAHARAN DE DAIN.MUZE

TO ESA LAGTA HAI KI AAP BHATIA JI KI GOODWILL KA FAYDA UTHANEY KE

LIYE UNKI HAAN MAIN HAAN MILA RAHE HAIN.KYONKI MAINEY AAJ KI DATE

TAK KISI BHI GROUP MAIN AAPKI ESI KOI MAIL NAHIN PADI. HAAN APKE

DWARA KI GAI ANALYSIS VA UNKO BATAYE GAYE UPAY JAROOR PADE HAIN.

GROUPMEMBERS, AB AAP HI JUDGE KI KUCH LOG KYON JANBHOOJH KAR BHED

BHARI BATAIN KARTEY HAIN.

GUSTAKHI KE LIYE MAFI

UMESH SHARMA

, " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee

wrote:

>

>

> So much respected Bhatia ji .

>

> Thanx for ur quick response. Ur reply is a milestone in this

discussion.

> Aapki is mail se bahut se sawalon ka jawab mil jane chahiye.

Khaas taur

> per unhain jo ki durusti ko sirf kisi grah ke taasir janne ka

tarikaa

> maantey hain.Agar abhi bhi na pataa chaley to table 8x1=8 se nahi

balki

> 2x1=2 se table start karna padega.8x8= ? ko kuchh din aur darkinar

> karnaa hoga.This is not a comment. Yeh to majboori hi hogi

na.isiliye

> aisa likh rahaa hoon.

>

> Respected Umesh ji & nirmal ji sirf tasir janna

aur

> remedy likhna hi durusti ka maksad hai to poori lalkitab kya hai?

> Usmain bhi to pratyek grah ke nek aur bad roop ko likha gaya hai,

yeh

> nek aur bad roop bhi to grahon ki tasir hi hain. Aise main alag se

> grammer likhne ki aur usmain durusti ka chapter daalne ki kyaa

jaroorat

> thi.Tasir dekhker grahfal ya rashifal dekhker hi upay likhey ja

sakety

> they.Lekin grammer fir bhi likhi gayee. Jahir hai ki iska bhi

maksad to

> hoga hi na.Aur usmaim teve ki durusti ke barey main likhne ka

maksad bhi

> sirf Umesh ji ke dwara likha gaya grah ki tasir janne tak seemit

ker

> denaa kahaan tak aur kis tarah swikaar kiya jaaye.(jabki pandit ji

to

> yahaan tak bol diyaa kartey they ki ghar se bahar nikal ker left

main

> kyaa milegaa aur kitne saal se uska vazood hogaa ghar se left ki

taraf.

> ) as teve ki durusti jaanch .

>

> Respected Bhatia ji thanx again for ur kind, fruitful,

> knowledgeful & specially experienceful ,co.operation to get some

more

> from this divine book..As u explained about Pitri Rin ,same views

r mine

> at that.Let us wait for other active members.

>

> With regards

>

> Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla

>

> , Rajinder Bhatia

> <rajinderbhatia2002@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Yograj Jee, Umesh Jee, Nirmal Jee, Vipin Jee and all

friends,

> >

> > My apologies for not jumping into this discussion earlier due to

> extreme busy-ness at work. Yograj jee wrote a wonderful reply

earlier

> which in reality is an outline of a volume that can, hopefully, be

> written by him in the next few years. (This is my sincere hope.)

> >

> > Regarding the " Durusti " here is what I'd like to add. Every

horoscope

> must be subjected to durusti before anything is done to/with it.

One of

> the techniques though not recommmended in LalKitab that I use is to

> check the degrees of each planet and see which one is about to

transit

> (or just did) to the next or previous (if retrograde) sign. I've

found

> that the planets on border line (cusp??) can give the effects of a

> previous house even though it may have transited a couple of days

> before. Similarly, for retrograde planets. Moon is a planet which

causes

> more issues than any other which must be looked at carefully.

Checking

> the ascendant and ascertaining its accuracy is of prime importance

too.

> Birth time may or may not have been accurately recorded. When to

record

> the actual time of birth is an issue that has been discussed in

numerous

> articles in various esteemed journals. So, it falls on you, the

> LalKitabist to fine-tune the horoscope (but I am not at all

recommending

> > graha spashti or chalit) Pt Roop Chand Jee has given symptoms of

many

> planets (and the tables at the end as mentioned by Umesh Jee)

which may

> be of help. Even if the symptoms are not given, one may try to see

if

> the halaat of the native match with what is written in the book.

Now

> that other editions of LalKitab are available publicly (especially

the

> 1939) one may try to use the principles of palmistry to validate

the

> horoscope (will require a lot of practice, though.)

> >

> > Another practice I follow (emulating the great one) is to go for

the

> whole family's horoscope. Pitri rin's full utilization has not been

> described in LalKitab. However, when I see the symptoms of a planet

> being really malefic, I like to see the entire family's

horoscopes. For

> example, if one's Mercury is bad, I find that pretty much the whole

> family's Mercury is posited badly (which will require the

treatment for

> Pitri Rin for the entire family.) Just doing one upaya may not

solve the

> problem - the whole family may be required to perform the Pitri Rin

> upaya. Trust me on this one Vipin Jee (although this is not

described so

> in LalKitab.) Pandit Roop Chand Jee (used to) and Pt Som Dutt jee

> continues to use this technique very effectively.

> >

> > It is also possible that you find, for example, that one's

Saturn is

> bad. You specify the remedial measure and the native performs the

> measure with full faith and yet no curative effects are visible.

Here

> may be why the upaya does not work. The native may be

storing/keeping

> items prohibited in the case of Saturn in the household or, in the

> parental home or even one of the brothers (or a renter in the

property)

> may have establsihed the prohibited articles like keeping liquor

etc. or

> other Saturanian activities may continue to be performed which

nullify

> the effect of the upaya. Or, the native's house may have defects

> (location, direction etc.) which compliment the evilness of Saturn

and

> the upayas will refuse to be effective.

> >

> > Will write more as time permits. I invite your thoughts on this.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > Rajinder Bhatia

> >

> >

> >

> > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> >

> > Respected Nirmal ji

> > Congrats. Dekho na bahut dino ke baad ek discussion bahut hi

rochak

> tarike se shuru hua hai aur agar yeh chaltaa rahaa to ho saktaa

hai ki

> lalkitab – grammer ki bahut si Unsuljhi gutthiyaan sulajh

> jayengi.(Mere khyaal se aap lalkitab main Unsuljhi gutthiyon hain--

is

> baat se sehmat to honge hi) .Isi din ke liye to aapne group ke

massages

> without moderation approve kiye they SHAYAD kuchh din pehely.

> > Shukriya Umesh Bhai. Bas yahi aur yahi veh jawaab hai jo ki aapne

> diyaa hai. Bus itnaa aur spasht ker dain ki KYAA DURUSTI JAANCHNE

KE

> LIYE LIKHI GAYEE SAARNI KAFI HAI YA ISSE BHI AAGE KUCHH ANUBHAV

KIYAA

> HAI LALKITAB KE SYSTEM MAIN AAPNEyadi durusti jaanchne ke baad bhi

aur

> durusti concerned person ki problem se co.relate hone per bhi yadi

3 ya

> 4 din baad vahi insaan aapse aaker boley ki us din meraa time of

birth

> galat thaa ya yun kahey ki meraa birth morning ka nahi night ka

hai ,

> aaj dobaaraa se sahi time ke mutabik dekhain to kyaa durusti hogi

ya

> durusti kaa matlab kyaa hogaa us condition main, remedy to door ki

cheez

> hai. YAAD RAHEY TODAY KUNDLIS R AT EACH DESKTOP OR WEB UNDER A

FINGER

> PRESS & AKSAR PANDIT JI DURUSTI SAHI NAA MILNE PER SAAF SAAF BOL

DIYAA

> KARTEY THEY KI TEVAA THIK NAHI HAI. Unki is adaa ya yun kaho ki

durusti

> prakriyaa ke gawaah aaj bhi hain. Agar vo is massage ko read

karain to

> jaroor

> > apne views share karain.Umesh Bhai rahi baat mere gyaani hone

ki , is

> taarif ke liye shukriya, Lekin Main bhi ek astrostudent ki

haisiyat se

> hi is group main likh rahaa hoon. Yograj ji aap to aise bahut se

logon

> ko jaantey hongey jo ki pandit ji ki is durusti prakriyaa ke

gawaah rahe

> hon.Rajinder Bhatia ji bhi un gawahon main se ek hain.

> > Aur Umesh ji ne thik hi request ki hai ki --- DOSE JARA HALKI

DIYA

> KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA

kyonki

> jahaan tak main samajhtaa hoon aapne apnaa jivan hi nahi bahut

kuchh

> lalkitab Ke naam arpan ker diyaa hai. Aapke ek prayaas se hi aaj

> lalkitab itni approachable ho gayi hai ki bade bade tathaakathit

> HASTINAPUR NARESH jo ki ORIGINAL LAL kitaab ko padhnaa padhaanaa

to door

> , dikhaanaa bhi kewal apni hi milkiyat samajhtey they,,, aaj

haaaaaaath

> mal rahey honge

> > Ise kehtey hain ------ - " Jor ka jhatkaa dhire se lagey. "

> > .

> > I salute u for this devotion & achievement Yograj ji. As well as

same

> to Nirmal ji.

> > Nirmal Ji my question " about the remedy failure " doesn't concern

the

> calculating to start from 8x1= 8. & I was waiting in same manner

AS 8X8

> = ? Fir bhi agar koi start se hi start karey to kaho kyaa

discussion ko

> stop ker diyaa jaaye. & As u told HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER

REFER TO

> FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE

> USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE " )

> > MY ANSWER IS ---- THIS IS AS AN ABUSEMENT TO ME WITHOUT PROPER

READING

> OF MY MAIL .

> > I know nobody can reach the stature of pandit ji.But aasmaan ko

> chhoone ki koshish karne per aasmaan haath main aaye ya na aaye

insaan

> ka kad to unchaa ho hi jaataa hai na. Aur is group ka REASEARCH

OREINTED

> maksad bhi to yahi hai mere vichaar se .Aapne aur jo bhi questions

> poochhey hain unkey jawaab bhi shayd is discussion se nikal

jaayain.Ek

> baat aur---- maine bhi vahi prashn kiye hain previous mail main jo

ki

> aap mujhse pooch rahey hain.Mujhe ummeed hai ki Mere questions ke

> answers milne per aapke sabhi questions ke bhi answers mil

> jayenge.Kyonki mere ya aapke ya kisi aur ke kuchh likh dene ka yeh

> matlab nahi ki lalkitab ka siddhant poora ho gaya .kisi bhi result

ya

> research tak pahunchne ke liye discussion ek maakool kasauti

hai.Bus

> group ke active members ke response ka intejaar hai. Kyon Umesh ji

thik

> hai na.

> > With so much regard.

> > lalkitabee V.K.shukla

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Umesh Sharma " mudit982001@

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respeced Nirmal ji,

> > > AAPNEY PUCHA KI

> > > " THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI

> > > DURUSTI "

> > > ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY)

NEY APNI

> > > PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY

HAIN

> > > UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI

UPYOG

> > > MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI

HEY.JAHAN

> > > TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI

> > > TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR

DEKHNEY

> > > KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT

> > > NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI

> > > HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN

AAYE

> > > CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY

THE JIS

> > > SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO

> > > BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI

AAKHIR

> > > MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY

> > > AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN,

AUR

> > > JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN

> > > MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS

JAANDAR YA

> > > BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY

KRA

> > > SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI

DURUSTI

> > > KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY

BALKI

> > > JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.

> > >

> > > AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA

> > > GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN

> > > RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI

TARAH

> > > JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH

JANTEY

> > > HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE

> > > LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY

> > > HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO

SAB

> > > SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP

MAIN EK

> > > PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR

EK

> > > UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN

GALATI

> > > KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA

KAHTEY

> > > HAIN?

> > >

> > > PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN

YE

> > > JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA.

> > >

> > > APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA.

KISI

> > > BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.

> > > THANKS

> > > REGARDS

> > > UMESH SHARMA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , NKB nirbhar@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Shukla Ji,

> > > > Namaskar,

> > > > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a

long

> > > mum. Your

> > > > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I

have

> > > tried to

> > > > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I

wish the

> > > other

> > > > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue

and in

> > > Capital

> > > > letters under respective paras

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Yograj ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Now this sentence

> > > > >

> > > > > " Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi

> > > > >

> > > > > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi. " is known all

of

> > > us bcause

> > > > > all we r students here.But my question is still there

about to

> > > know the

> > > > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or

> > > incurable

> > > > > MAUT. Bcause-------------

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point

where

> > > all

> > > > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard

> > > stick at

> > > > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates

> > > another point

> > > > > to debate.

> > > > >

> > > > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING

TEVE KI

> > > DURUSTI.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial

> > > part ,bcoz

> > > > > lalkitab says

> > > > >

> > > > > " Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya

budh

> > > akelaa (papi

> > > > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig

hoga.

> > > Now wat shud

> > > > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-

> > > > >

> > > > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano

> > > main paapi

> > > > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?

> > > > >

> > > > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi

> > > paapi grah

> > > > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?

> > > > >

> > > > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)

> > > > >

> > > > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh

> > > hoga tab

> > > > > teva nabalig hoga?

> > > > >

> > > > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in

> > > band mutthi

> > > > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES

NOT

> > > ARISE

> > > > >

> > > > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in

> > > 5th in a

> > > > > kund

> > > > >

> > > > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of

> > > tevaa this wil

> > > > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other

> > > side u really

> > > > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore

this

> > > fact to take

> > > > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of

balig

> > > or nabalig.

> > > > > But ur opinion is regardable .

> > > > >

> > > > > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE

PAAPI

> > > GRAHS AND

> > > > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED " , WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE

OF

> > > SUN IN 5TH AND

> > > > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE

NABBALIG TEVA

> > > AS

> > > > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR

BAALIG

> > > TEVA.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of

shani

> > > rahu ketu,

> > > > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED,

SHANI KA

> > > JAATI

> > > > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.

> > > > >

> > > > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER

> > > PLANETS?

> > > > >

> > > > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-

SATURN'S

> > > OR OTHER

> > > > > PLANETS ALSO.

> > > > >

> > > > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?

> > > > >

> > > > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .

> > > > >

> > > > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS

DHARMI

> > > TEVA, HOW

> > > > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN

DHARMI

> > > TEVA FRO

> > > > > OTHERS. " *

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to

say

> > > about failure

> > > > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a

seprate

> > > mail in

> > > > > group if possible.

> > > > >

> > > > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE

SON OR

> > > FATHER'S

> > > > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS

WHERE

> > > THIS IS

> > > > > APPLICABLE.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is

> > > self

> > > > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG

> > > created.Which r

> > > > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa

cant

> > > be a yard

> > > > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next

generation, not

> > > to any

> > > > > particular person of next generation.

> > > > >

> > > > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA

GRAH

> > > IS RELATED

> > > > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED.

I

> > > FEEL BOTH HAVE

> > > > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI

SWABHAV,

> > > GRAHFAL KA

> > > > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.

> > > > >

> > > > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by

> > > My Manas

> > > > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person

borned in

> > > SAMVAT

> > > > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty,

khana

> > > no.2------Shani,

> > > > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----

Sun.Ven,Jup

> > > > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ----

> > > moon, no9

> > > > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,

> > > > >

> > > > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > (i) nowhere any statement according to

> > > Grahfal

> > > > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .

> > > > >

> > > > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU

> > > SWABHAV.

> > > > >

> > > > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad

> > > > >

> > > > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI

> > > KE KHANE " But

> > > > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both

> conditions

> > > > > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)

> > > > >

> > > > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa

> > > also

> > > > > visible.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-

> > > > >

> > > > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal

> > > no 6, Jis

> > > > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2,

Doosri

> > > shadi sooraj

> > > > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi

> > > huyee, 5 saal

> > > > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main

chudiyon ne

> > > bolnaa tha

> > > > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi

se

> > > kaata.

> > > > >

> > > > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa

> > > hai , haan

> > > > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka

operation

> > > thik nahi hogaa

> > > > >

> > > > > Remedial Process at :--

> > > > >

> > > > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6

> > > tak rahega ,agar

> > > > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa

> > > hai,bachchey is

> > > > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke

haath

> se

> > > > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker

> > > mandir main

> > > > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.

> > > > >

> > > > > U told � " An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider

> > > the " Pitri-Rin " as

> > > > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives

> > > having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> > > performing

> > > > > numerous remedial measures.

> > > > >

> > > > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I

think

> > > there was

> > > > > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major

> > > feature).Secondly how

> > > > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is

puzzeling to

> > > mark

> > > > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of

> > > analyzation so we

> > > > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in

perview

> > > of balig

> > > > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva

is

> > > balig or

> > > > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig

&

> > > nabalig

> > > > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to

balig

> > > hi lenge

> > > > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main

> > > aapke dwaaraa

> > > > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne

kaise use

> > > kiyaa hai ya

> > > > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique

use ki

> > > gayee to aap

> > > > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine

> > > knowledge

> > > > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So

im

> > > again

> > > > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted

to mark

> > > teve ki

> > > > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken

after

> > > analyzation

> > > > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about

malefic &

> > > benefic

> > > > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where

used ,budh

> > > ka bhed,

> > > > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki

> > > gayee vidhi

> > > > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai,

lekin

> > > question bhi

> > > > > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to

kyaa

> > > harz hai.ButHow���.

> > > > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This

is

> > > y ---- I

> > > > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden

criteria

> > > to decide

> > > > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc. "

> remedy

> > > karne ke baad

> > > > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa

pandit

> > > ji tabhi likh

> > > > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur

kahin

> > > na kahin per

> > > > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision

kartey

> > > huye koi ek

> > > > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella

banne

> > > ke kabil

> > > > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa

> > > likhi ya

> > > > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey

huye

> > > spashtikaran

> > > > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke

saamne

> > > parshn

> > > > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is

group

> > > main. Other

> > > > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "

> > > > >

> > > > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE

STATUS

> > > OF PUNDIT

> > > > > JI.

> > > > >

> > > > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE

> > > QUESTIONS RAISED

> > > > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET

> > > PROPERTIES THESE

> > > > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.

> > > > >

> > > > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.

> > > > >

> > > > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE

> > > OCCURRENCE OF SUCH

> > > > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER

IN IT,

> > > > >

> > > > > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.

> > > > >

> > > > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS

> > > WITH SONS

> > > > >

> > > > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW

> > > HUNDRED PAGES

> > > > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE

> > > GIVEN AISE HEE

> > > > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE " )

> > > > >

> > > > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:

> > > > >

> > > > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN

1951.

> > > PUNDIT JEE

> > > > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT

WOULD BE

> > > HIS AGE THEN

> > > > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK

WRITTEN

> > > IN 1940

> > > > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE

THAT YOU

> > > HAVE

> > > > >

> > > > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI

THAT

> > > PUNDIT JEE

> > > > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW

> > > EXAMINE THESE

> > > > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD

EXPERIENCE

> > > OF UNDER 20

> > > > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING

THE

> > > HOROSCOPE UPTO

> > > > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH

ABOUT

> > > LALKITAB

> > > > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN

1940'S

> > > LAST PAGES.

> > > > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF

> > > > >

> > > > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT

JI

> > > NEVER USED OR

> > > > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.

> > > > >

> > > > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13

YEARS

> > > AFTER THE

> > > > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO

MANY

> > > ITEMS ARE

> > > > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE

NOT

> > > DISCUSSED IN

> > > > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A

> > > TABULAR FORM.

> > > > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL

KHANA WISE

> > > > > ILLUSTRATION.

> > > > >

> > > > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH

> > > EXPERIENCE AND

> > > > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME

> > > TOPIC, SOMETIMES

> > > > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING

> > > > >

> > > > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE

READERS

> > > HAD ALREADY

> > > > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.

> > > > >

> > > > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING

IN

> > > CHILDHOOD,

> > > > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE

HAVE

> > > ALREADY IN

> > > > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL

REVISION

> > > AND

> > > > > EXPERIENCE.

> > > > >

> > > > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION

> > > > >

> > > > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY

> > > READING A SMALL

> > > > > PART OF BOOK.

> > > > >

> > > > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN

> > > > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE

BOOK TO

> > > MAKE IT

> > > > > VOLUMINOUS.

> > > > >

> > > > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM

> > > THE BOOK

> > > > > ITSELF.

> > > > >

> > > > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE

> > > WRONG

> > > > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING

ASTROLOGERS

> ARE

> > > > >

> > > > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF

> > > A PLANET IS

> > > > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.

> > > > >

> > > > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF

> > > EXAMPLES

> > > > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.

> > > > >

> > > > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR

> > > JUST DO

> > > > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO

CAUSE.

> > > > >

> > > > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC

> > > APPROACH TO

> > > > > LALKITAB.

> > > > >

> > > > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS

> > > LIKE ME ARE

> > > > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU " AS

> > > WRITTEN IN THE

> > > > > BOOK ITSELF.

> > > > >

> > > > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE

USED

> FOR

> > > > > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT

SPIRIT

> > > OF THE

> > > > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS

BOOK

> > > SIMPLE BY

> > > > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL

KNOW

> > > THAT THIS

> > > > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW

> > > GENERATION IS

> > > > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND

THE

> > > OLDAGE

> > > > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE

> > > WORDS/PHRASES OF THE

> > > > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE

GOING TO

> > > LEFT BEHIND

> > > > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Regards

> > > > >

> > > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > > <yr_prabhakar@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> > > > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message

from my

> > > good old

> > > > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum.

The

> > > point he

> > > > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do

> > > remedies don't

> > > > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the

> > > professional

> > > > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another.

Now the

> > > next

> > > > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the

> > > yardstick and

> > > > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the

problematic

> > > area in a

> > > > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab

> > > practitioners are

> > > > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they

often

> > > diverge

> > > > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their

main

> > > thrust is to

> > > > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy

and

> > > undesired)

> > > > > that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very

impetuosity

> > > is one of

> > > > > the causes for a grand failure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for

> > > analysing a chart

> > > > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior

> > > colleagues.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is

the " Tewe

> > > Ki

> > > > > Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr.

Umesh

> > > Sharma ji, Mr.

> > > > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful

> > > others) use this

> > > > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the

client

> > > and this

> > > > > divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of the chart?

Good

> > > results can be

> > > > > expected once an appropriate " Darustee " of the chart is

done.

> > > Pt. Ji advised

> > > > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the

Tewa

> > > is " Baalig "

> > > > > or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for

both

> > > of these.

> > > > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be different

from the

> > > normal one

> > > > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa

> (GuTka)-

> > > 1941).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi

Tewa "

> > > > > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an

> > > entirely

> > > > > different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a

normal

> > > Tewa the

> > > > > planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor

the

> > > other day.

> > > > > That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

> > > particularly in

> > > > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also

necessary

> > > (detail of

> > > > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because

in

> > > such cases

> > > > > remedial measures are entirely different.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider

the " Pitri-Rin "

> > > as a

> > > > > major feature, because I have seen that the natives

> > > having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> > > performing

> > > > > numerous remedial measures.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is

to

> > > determine the

> > > > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and

> > > sensitive part of

> > > > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because

> > > sometimes what

> > > > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture.

Once the

> > > malefic

> > > > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is

> > > utmost urgent to

> > > > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are

various

> > > method

> > > > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka

Bhed "

> > > for

> > > > > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and " Shani

Ka

> > > Zaati Swabhao "

> > > > > for Saturn and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic

planet in

> > > a chart,

> > > > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet

> > > (rather its

> > > > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-

Phal "

> and

> > > > > " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of

the

> > > revered Lal

> > > > > Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj

> > > Nahee " , it is

> > > > > very clear from this phrase that the " Maut " (death)

is " Grah-

> > > Phal " and is

> > > > > irremediable, whereas the " Beemari " (illness) is " Rashi-

Phal "

> > > and is

> > > > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful

> while

> > > > > recommending the remedies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect

any

> > > miracle,

> > > > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any

> > > paranormal

> > > > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the

> > > remedies are

> > > > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the

> > > depressing energies

> > > > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around

him. It

> > > helps him to

> > > > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and

fight

> > > the state

> > > > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to

> > > prevent the

> > > > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies

unquestionably

> > > helps him to

> > > > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a

> > > beast, he can

> > > > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature

could

> > > not trespass

> > > > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by

using

> > > Saam (by

> > > > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by

> > > Mischief) is

> > > > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or

> > > increasing the

> > > > > bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a

particular

> > > planet for

> > > > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles

> > > related to a

> > > > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones

> > > favour.

> > > > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items

of a

> > > particular

> > > > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per

Masnooyee

> Grah

> > > > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible,

establishing

> > > a common

> > > > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a

planet that

> > > is believed

> > > > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for

Rahu)

> > > etc.

> > > > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and

enhance the

> > > positive

> > > > > results of the suffering one.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > > > > Respected members & moderators & owner

> > > > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which

has been

> > > done in

> > > > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

> > > stature to

> > > > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me

also

> > > that we

> > > > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> > > > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab

says

> > > about

> > > > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

> > > criteria to

> > > > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective

or

> > > not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal &

> janmkundli

> > > > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as

> > > lalkitab

> > > > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its

> > > > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat

shud we

> > > analyze

> > > > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some

of

> > > them say to

> > > > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan

> > > kundali.Some assume

> > > > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But

> > > after cross

> > > > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me

accentric.So im

> > > putting

> > > > > this question in this group to make a healthy

disscussion .My

> > > personal

> > > > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry

> > > analyzations as

> > > > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or

religious

> > > point of

> > > > > views.Only

> > > > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of

lallkitab.I

> > > think

> > > > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned

members

> > > will

> > > > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> > > > > > With regards

> > > > > > Lalkitabee

> > > > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla

> > > > > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?

> > > > > > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Don't be flakey. Get Mail for Mobile and

> > always stay connected to friends.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Shukla Ji,

If any word of mine offended you please let me off as I had no

intentions to hurt your sentiments in anyway while replying your

message.

 

Please read the following lines

 

" But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think there

was no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major feature) "

 

Above lines were written by you.and i tried to give the best suited

reply of your lines. I am really astonished that a learned man of

Lalkitab like you, have straightway rejected the ideology of Pt. Roop

Chand Joshi Ji. Please go through the page no 122 to 142 of grammer

where Pandit Ji have written about the pitri rin and its upayas.

 

Regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

 

, " Nirmal Kumar

Bhardwaj " <nirbhar wrote:

>

> Thanks Prabhakar Ji,

> you have given very illustrative and systematic way of analysing a

> kundli. Not many astrologers go in these details before prescribing

> medicine. I can term this as a very bold step. Only A Person like

you

> can do it. Bold step is termed in the sense that a practizing

> astrologer most unlikely to give these amalytical steps to others.

> But here the illustration given by you may help the students like

me

> to develope a systemetic approach/method.

> let us all as members of this group develope a worksheet to enable

> the amatuers to go for a predeifned path. Pandit ji has given such

> few worksheets in lastpages of Lal Kitab Ke Armaan.

> I wish somepne to come forward to make it in tabular form in

English

> for all members of group who donot know urdu.

> Regards

> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

>

> , Yograj Prabhakar

> <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my

good

> old friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The

> point he raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do

> remedies don't work? It is a question that many of us (particularly

> the professional astrologers) must have come across one time or

> another. Now the next question is what should be the criteria, what

> should be the yardstick and what should be the exact modus operandi

> to find the problematic area in a chart? I am very sorry to say

that

> most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are not paying complete

> consideration to this segment and they often diverge from the very

> principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to

> recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and

> undesired) that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very

> impetuosity is one of the causes for a grand failure.

> >

> > I would like to share some of the basic principles for

analysing

> a chart as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior

> colleagues.

> >

> > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the " Tewe

Ki

> Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh

Sharma

> ji, Mr. Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful

> others) use this rectification technique. How one can do justice

with

> the client and this divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of

the

> chart? Good results can be expected once an appropriate " Darustee "

> of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised to shake the chart 2-3 times

to

> achieve the clear picture.

> >

> > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa is

> " Baalig " or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for

> both of these. Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be

> different from the normal one (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal

> Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941).

> >

> > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi Tewa "

> characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an entirely

> different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a normal Tewa

> the planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> >

> > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the

other

> day. That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

> particularly in case of a joint family this point is worth

> considering.

> >

> > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also necessary

> (detail of these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab),

because

> in such cases remedial measures are entirely different.

> >

> > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-Rin "

as

> a major feature, because I have seen that the natives having " Pitri-

> Rin " in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> performing numerous remedial measures.

> >

> > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to

> determine the problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate

and

> sensitive part of analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab

astrology,

> because sometimes what we see on the paper does not reflect the

true

> picture. Once the malefic planets are recognized – half of the work

> is done. It is utmost urgent to know the nature of the planets in a

> Chart. There are various method described in detail in the revered

> Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka Bhed " for knowing the exact nature of the

> planet Mercury and " Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao " for Saturn and so on.

> >

> > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet in

a

> chart, the most important thing is to determine whether the planet

> (rather its effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-

> Phal " and " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of

> the revered Lal Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka

Koyi

> Ilaaj Nahee " , it is very clear from this phrase that the " Maut "

> (death) is " Grah-Phal " and is irremediable, whereas the " Beemari "

> (illness) is " Rashi-Phal " and is possibly repairable. So one should

> be vigilant and watchful while recommending the remedies.

> >

> > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any

> miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like

any

> paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the

> remedies are suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates

the

> depressing energies and the native is blessed with positive

energies

> around him. It helps him to think positively, to appreciate the

> situation honestly and fight the state of affairs more bravely. It

is

> not in the human capacity to prevent the rainfall, but the divine

> umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to safeguard himself

> from being drenched. If one can't slay a beast, he can atleast

> elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not trespass

> his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

> >

> > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using

> Saam (by Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by

> Mischief) is commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

> >

> > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing

or

> increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a

> particular planet for reducing or increasing the bad or good

effects

> of a planet.

> > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning

> articles related to a particular planet for altering the negative

> effects in ones favour.

> > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping

> items of a particular planet, try to remove a particular segment

(as

> per Masnooyee Grah combination) of a malefic planet wherever

> possible, establishing a common friend between two rival planets

and

> strengthening a planet that is believed to have the power to level

a

> wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc. reduces the malefic

effects

> of a malefic planet and enhance the positive results of the

suffering

> one.

> >

> >

> > Yograj Prabhakar

> >

> > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > Respected members & moderators & owner

> > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been

done

> in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

stature

> to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also

> that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says

> about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

> criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be

> effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in

> varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper

remedy

> as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements indicates

> about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat

shud

> we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers,

some

> of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan

> kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance to

kp

> system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or

addressed

> me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a

> healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus this

> issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other

> spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only

> > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I

> think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned

members

> will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> > With regards

> > Lalkitabee

> > Shastri V.K.Shukla

> > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > TV dinner still cooling?

> > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Umesh Ji,

the word debatable is not to be taken on negative sense. Since a

querry is raised by a very learned man of lalkitab, therefore this

point must be discussed in the group.

Using the word debatable had proved to be a boon for the members of

the group, as this bring a Learned Person to the fore and proved to

be a guiding factor to younger members of our group.

Best Regards

Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

, " Umesh

Sharma " <mudit982001 wrote:

>

> Respeced Nirmal ji,

> AAPNEY PUCHA KI

> " THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI

> DURUSTI "

> ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) NEY

APNI

> PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY HAIN

> UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI

UPYOG

> MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI HEY.JAHAN

> TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI

> TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR

DEKHNEY

> KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT

> NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI

> HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN AAYE

> CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY THE JIS

> SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO

> BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI AAKHIR

> MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY

> AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, AUR

> JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN

> MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS JAANDAR YA

> BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY KRA

> SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI DURUSTI

> KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY

BALKI

> JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.

>

> AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA

> GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN

> RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI TARAH

> JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH JANTEY

> HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE

> LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY

> HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO SAB

> SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP MAIN EK

> PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR EK

> UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN GALATI

> KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA KAHTEY

> HAIN?

>

> PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN YE

> JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA.

>

> APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. KISI

> BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.

> THANKS

> REGARDS

> UMESH SHARMA

>

>

>

>

> , NKB <nirbhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Shukla Ji,

> > Namaskar,

> > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a long

> mum. Your

> > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I have

> tried to

> > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I wish

the

> other

> > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue and

in

> Capital

> > letters under respective paras

> >

> >

> > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Yograj ji

> > >

> > > Now this sentence

> > >

> > > " Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi

> > >

> > > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi. " is known all of

> us bcause

> > > all we r students here.But my question is still there about to

> know the

> > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or

> incurable

> > > MAUT. Bcause-------------

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point

where

> all

> > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard

> stick at

> > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates

> another point

> > > to debate.

> > >

> > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI

> DURUSTI.

> > >

> > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial

> part ,bcoz

> > > lalkitab says

> > >

> > > " Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya budh

> akelaa (papi

> > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig hoga.

> Now wat shud

> > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-

> > >

> > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano

> main paapi

> > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?

> > >

> > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi

> paapi grah

> > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?

> > >

> > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)

> > >

> > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh

> hoga tab

> > > teva nabalig hoga?

> > >

> > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in

> band mutthi

> > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES NOT

> ARISE

> > >

> > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in

> 5th in a

> > > kund

> > >

> > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of

> tevaa this wil

> > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other

> side u really

> > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore this

> fact to take

> > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of balig

> or nabalig.

> > > But ur opinion is regardable .

> > >

> > > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE PAAPI

> GRAHS AND

> > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED " , WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE OF

> SUN IN 5TH AND

> > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE NABBALIG

TEVA

> AS

> > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR BAALIG

> TEVA.

> > >

> > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of shani

> rahu ketu,

> > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, SHANI KA

> JAATI

> > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.

> > >

> > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER

> PLANETS?

> > >

> > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-SATURN'S

> OR OTHER

> > > PLANETS ALSO.

> > >

> > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?

> > >

> > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .

> > >

> > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS DHARMI

> TEVA, HOW

> > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN DHARMI

> TEVA FRO

> > > OTHERS. " *

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to say

> about failure

> > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a

seprate

> mail in

> > > group if possible.

> > >

> > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE SON

OR

> FATHER'S

> > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS WHERE

> THIS IS

> > > APPLICABLE.

> > >

> > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is

> self

> > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG

> created.Which r

> > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa cant

> be a yard

> > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next generation,

not

> to any

> > > particular person of next generation.

> > >

> > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA GRAH

> IS RELATED

> > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. I

> FEEL BOTH HAVE

> > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.

> > >

> > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAV,

> GRAHFAL KA

> > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.

> > >

> > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by

> My Manas

> > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person borned

in

> SAMVAT

> > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty,

khana

> no.2------Shani,

> > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----

Sun.Ven,Jup

> > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ----

> moon, no9

> > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,

> > >

> > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > (i) nowhere any statement according

to

> Grahfal

> > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .

> > >

> > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU

> SWABHAV.

> > >

> > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad

> > >

> > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI

> KE KHANE " But

> > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both

conditions

> > > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)

> > >

> > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa

> also

> > > visible.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-

> > >

> > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai

Mangal

> no 6, Jis

> > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, Doosri

> shadi sooraj

> > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi

> huyee, 5 saal

> > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main chudiyon ne

> bolnaa tha

> > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi se

> kaata.

> > >

> > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa

> hai , haan

> > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka operation

> thik nahi hogaa

> > >

> > > Remedial Process at :--

> > >

> > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6

> tak rahega ,agar

> > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa

> hai,bachchey is

> > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke haath

se

> > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker

> mandir main

> > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.

> > >

> > > U told � " An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider

> the " Pitri-Rin " as

> > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives

> having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> performing

> > > numerous remedial measures.

> > >

> > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think

> there was

> > > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major

> feature).Secondly how

> > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is puzzeling

to

> mark

> > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of

> analyzation so we

> > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in perview

> of balig

> > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva is

> balig or

> > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig &

> nabalig

> > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to balig

> hi lenge

> > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main

> aapke dwaaraa

> > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne kaise use

> kiyaa hai ya

> > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique use ki

> gayee to aap

> > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.

> > >

> > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine

> knowledge

> > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So im

> again

> > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.

> > >

> > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted to

mark

> teve ki

> > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken

after

> analyzation

> > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about malefic &

> benefic

> > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where used

,budh

> ka bhed,

> > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki

> gayee vidhi

> > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, lekin

> question bhi

> > > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to kyaa

> harz hai.ButHow���.

> > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This is

> y ---- I

> > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden

criteria

> to decide

> > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc. " remedy

> karne ke baad

> > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa pandit

> ji tabhi likh

> > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur kahin

> na kahin per

> > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision kartey

> huye koi ek

> > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella banne

> ke kabil

> > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa

> likhi ya

> > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey huye

> spashtikaran

> > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke saamne

> parshn

> > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is group

> main. Other

> > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "

> > >

> > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE

STATUS

> OF PUNDIT

> > > JI.

> > >

> > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE

> QUESTIONS RAISED

> > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET

> PROPERTIES THESE

> > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.

> > >

> > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.

> > >

> > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE

> OCCURRENCE OF SUCH

> > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER IN IT,

> > >

> > > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.

> > >

> > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS

> WITH SONS

> > >

> > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW

> HUNDRED PAGES

> > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE

> GIVEN AISE HEE

> > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE " )

> > >

> > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:

> > >

> > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN 1951.

> PUNDIT JEE

> > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT WOULD BE

> HIS AGE THEN

> > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK

WRITTEN

> IN 1940

> > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE THAT YOU

> HAVE

> > >

> > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI THAT

> PUNDIT JEE

> > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW

> EXAMINE THESE

> > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD EXPERIENCE

> OF UNDER 20

> > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING THE

> HOROSCOPE UPTO

> > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT

> LALKITAB

> > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN 1940'S

> LAST PAGES.

> > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF

> > >

> > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT JI

> NEVER USED OR

> > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.

> > >

> > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 YEARS

> AFTER THE

> > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO MANY

> ITEMS ARE

> > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE NOT

> DISCUSSED IN

> > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A

> TABULAR FORM.

> > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL KHANA WISE

> > > ILLUSTRATION.

> > >

> > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH

> EXPERIENCE AND

> > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME

> TOPIC, SOMETIMES

> > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING

> > >

> > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE READERS

> HAD ALREADY

> > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.

> > >

> > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING IN

> CHILDHOOD,

> > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE HAVE

> ALREADY IN

> > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL REVISION

> AND

> > > EXPERIENCE.

> > >

> > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION

> > >

> > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY

> READING A SMALL

> > > PART OF BOOK.

> > >

> > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN

> > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE BOOK

TO

> MAKE IT

> > > VOLUMINOUS.

> > >

> > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM

> THE BOOK

> > > ITSELF.

> > >

> > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE

THE

> WRONG

> > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING ASTROLOGERS

ARE

> > >

> > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF

> A PLANET IS

> > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.

> > >

> > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF

> EXAMPLES

> > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.

> > >

> > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR

> JUST DO

> > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO CAUSE.

> > >

> > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC

> APPROACH TO

> > > LALKITAB.

> > >

> > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS

> LIKE ME ARE

> > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU " AS

> WRITTEN IN THE

> > > BOOK ITSELF.

> > >

> > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE USED

FOR

> > > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT SPIRIT

> OF THE

> > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS BOOK

> SIMPLE BY

> > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL KNOW

> THAT THIS

> > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW

> GENERATION IS

> > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND THE

> OLDAGE

> > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE

> WORDS/PHRASES OF THE

> > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE GOING TO

> LEFT BEHIND

> > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.

> > >

> > > Best Regards

> > >

> > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> <yr_prabhakar@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my

> good old

> > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. The

> point he

> > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do

> remedies don't

> > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the

> professional

> > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. Now the

> next

> > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the

> yardstick and

> > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the problematic

> area in a

> > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab

> practitioners are

> > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they

often

> diverge

> > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main

> thrust is to

> > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and

> undesired)

> > > that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very impetuosity

> is one of

> > > the causes for a grand failure.

> > > >

> > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for

> analysing a chart

> > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior

> colleagues.

> > > >

> > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is the " Tewe

> Ki

> > > Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh

> Sharma ji, Mr.

> > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful

> others) use this

> > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the client

> and this

> > > divine subject without a proper " Darustee " of the chart? Good

> results can be

> > > expected once an appropriate " Darustee " of the chart is done.

> Pt. Ji advised

> > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.

> > > >

> > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa

> is " Baalig "

> > > or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for both

> of these.

> > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be different from

the

> normal one

> > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa

(GuTka)-

> 1941).

> > > >

> > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi Tewa "

> > > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an

> entirely

> > > different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a normal

> Tewa the

> > > planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> > > >

> > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the

> other day.

> > > That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

> particularly in

> > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.

> > > >

> > > > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also necessary

> (detail of

> > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because in

> such cases

> > > remedial measures are entirely different.

> > > >

> > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-

Rin "

> as a

> > > major feature, because I have seen that the natives

> having " Pitri-Rin " in

> > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of

> performing

> > > numerous remedial measures.

> > > >

> > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to

> determine the

> > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and

> sensitive part of

> > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because

> sometimes what

> > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. Once the

> malefic

> > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is

> utmost urgent to

> > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are various

> method

> > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka

Bhed "

> for

> > > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and " Shani Ka

> Zaati Swabhao "

> > > for Saturn and so on.

> > > >

> > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet

in

> a chart,

> > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet

> (rather its

> > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about " Grah-Phal "

and

> > > " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning of the

> revered Lal

> > > Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj

> Nahee " , it is

> > > very clear from this phrase that the " Maut " (death) is " Grah-

> Phal " and is

> > > irremediable, whereas the " Beemari " (illness) is " Rashi-Phal "

> and is

> > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful

while

> > > recommending the remedies.

> > > >

> > > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect any

> miracle,

> > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any

> paranormal

> > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the

> remedies are

> > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the

> depressing energies

> > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around him. It

> helps him to

> > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and

fight

> the state

> > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to

> prevent the

> > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies unquestionably

> helps him to

> > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a

> beast, he can

> > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could

> not trespass

> > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

> > > >

> > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by using

> Saam (by

> > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by

> Mischief) is

> > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

> > > >

> > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or

> increasing the

> > > bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a particular

> planet for

> > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles

> related to a

> > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones

> favour.

> > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items of a

> particular

> > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per Masnooyee

Grah

> > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible,

establishing

> a common

> > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a planet

that

> is believed

> > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for

Rahu)

> etc.

> > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and enhance the

> positive

> > > results of the suffering one.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > > >

> > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:

> > > > Respected members & moderators & owner

> > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has

been

> done in

> > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

> stature to

> > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me also

> that we

> > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab says

> about

> > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

> criteria to

> > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective or

> not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal &

janmkundli

> > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as

> lalkitab

> > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its

> > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat shud we

> analyze

> > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some of

> them say to

> > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan

> kundali.Some assume

> > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But

> after cross

> > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me accentric.So

im

> putting

> > > this question in this group to make a healthy disscussion .My

> personal

> > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry

> analyzations as

> > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or religious

> point of

> > > views.Only

> > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I

> think

> > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned members

> will

> > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> > > > With regards

> > > > Lalkitabee

> > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla

> > > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > TV dinner still cooling?

> > > > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Umesh ji,

Sadar Namaskar.

Mere Bhai ek ke baad ek karke 3 mails main jawab de rahey hain.Soch samajh ker diya hua ek hi kafi tha. Yeh discussion hai aise hi apne vichar vyakt na kiya karain chaltey chaltey , ya neend main.ho sakta hai ki aapki mail se hum sabhi ko koyee milestone mil jaaye..Mail ki summery ko samajhker jawab dain.Taaki koi nishkarsh nikal sake.Rahi baat Yograj bhai ke tool dene ki – Is topic ki depth ko samajhker tarike se jawab dene ki kabiliyat jismain hogi kam se kam vo ise TOOL kabhi nahi samjhega.Aur Rahi baat unsuljhi gutthiyon ki ---To yeh jaan lain ki jis group main aap yeh likh rahey hain veh research oriented hai aur research hameshaa unsuljhe aur misterious topics ke liye hi hoti hai.Jo baat clear hai veh to information ya knowledge ban jaaati hai.

Koi baat nahi.Pehley main aapki ek baat ka jawab deta hoon ki aap yeh fikra bilkul na karain ki main aapki baat ka bura manoonga. Kyonki koi ghatiyaa aur gandaa insaan mere saath kaisi bhi ghatiyaa aur giree huyee baat kyon na ker baithey. meraa to asoool hai ki main uski bhi baat ka buraa nahi manta.Fir aap ke jaisi shaksiyat ki baat ka bura kaise maan saktaA hoon bandhu.

2ndly aap bol rahey hain ki main Bhatia ji ki goodwill ka faydaa uthane ke liye unki haan main haan milaa rahaa hoon. Iska seedha sa matlab to yahi hua ki Bhatia ji galat bol rahey hain aur unse koyee faydaa uthane ke liye.main unki haan main haan milaa rahaa hoon. Iska faislaa main doosre learned mebers per chhodtaa hoon ki ve Bhatia ji ki baat se kahaan tak sehmat hain pitri rin se sambandhit.Din ko din kehne main andhey ko bhi parhez nahi hota.Sivaay ullu (OWL) ke. (this is only an example nothing personal to anyone.) Is group main to devotee learned members hain. Rahi baat goodwill ki to is group main sabhi goodwill waley hain aur unke beech main yeh lalkitabee V.K.SHUKLA jaisa CHHOTAA sa insaan bhi kuchh man main upje sawaalon ko disscuss karne chalaa aayaa hai.

3rdly Kaash ki aapki baat sahi ho jaaye aur mere paas lalkitab ki sabse adhik knowledge ho jaaye taki main vastav main yahi samajhne lagoon ki mujhe saari lalkitab samajh main aa gayee, to kehnaa hi kya.Bhaley hi aapne anmane hoker bola hai lekin ismain bhi ek suroor hai.Jo mujhe us mukaam tak pahunchne ki prernaa detaa hai.Aap bhavishya main bhi mere jaise aur bahut se logon ko inspire kartey rahiyegaa dose per dose deker.Lekin dhyaan rakhna jise dose de rahey ho kahin uske haath main pehley se hi TEEKAA (Injection) na ho vo bhi janwaron wala(Animals like gadhha ghoda).Varnaa do hakley insaano(STUMMERS) ki tarah baat kisi ki bhi poori nahi hogi aur kalesh khadaa ho jayegaa.

Rahi baat pitri rin se sambandhit kisi insaan ki pooori family ki kundli analyze karne se sambandhit baat. Vo to shayad Bhatia ji ki bhi mail aapko kisi bhi group main nahi milegi jismain poorey khaandaan ki kundlis ki demand ki gayee ho.aur yograj ji ki bhi shayad hi aisi koi mail miley.Baki aap unse confirm ker saktey hain..Jo bhi ho ,Iska matlab yeh nahi ki hamne aisa nahi kiya.Haan maine ki hai.ek baari nahi kayee martaba kiya hai.Arrre mere bhai maine to iski poori padtaal karne ke liye ek family ke sabhi members ke saath saath 3-3 mahine tak unke yahaan janm lene waley naye mehmaan ki bhi kundli ka intejaar kiyaa hai. kabhi tum bhi yeh practical karna.

Ab deknaa yeh hai ki kisi family ka pitri rin se sambandhit upay karwaaney ke baad us family main janm lene wali aulad ki kundli main yeh dosh dekhne ko miltaa hai ya nahi ?.Mere topic `remedy failure' se sambandhit abhi tak huye discussion ka Partial & seedha sa nichod yehi samajh main aataa hai ki agar planetry positions ke maddenazar lalkitab ke diye rules ke mutabik agar samajh main aa jaaye to pitri rin ka upay ker hi lenaa chahiye.(it seems a partial result I think more discussion is needed under the FAILURE OF REMEDY) Fark sirf itna hai ki jab pitri rin se sambandhit upay kiya jaye to problem ko dhyaan main rakhaa jaana chahiye.Kyonki Kai martaba kurbani ka bakraa to problem hotaa hai aur kurbaan karne wala doshi.Yadi kisi ka anya kuchh vichar ho ya kisi ne acadmic nazariye ke mutabik kuchh aur nichod nikalaa ho to kripa kar spasht karne ka kasht karey.

.. Over all main yahi kehnaa chahtaa hoon ki jo question maine remedy failure se related poochtey huye group main discussion shuru kiyaa tha.Uskaa seedha sa maksab yeh hai ki kisi ne is dishaa main koi khaas prayaas kiyaa ho aur koi nichod jo ki brief ho aur lalkitab ke siddhanton per hi ho veh saamne aaye.Jaise ki pitri rin se sambandhit planetry position ya koi khaas planetry position jise dekhtey hi faisla ho jaye ki upay shayad bilkul hi bekaar na ho jaaye , .Ab ismain bhi sawaal yeh hai ki yadi pitri rin kisi kundali/ kundalis main ho to doosrey upay pitri rin ka upay karwaye bina kiye jaayen ya nahi ?.Aise aise bahut se prashn paidaa hotey hain jinke baarey main faisla lenaa anishchit sa ho jaataa hai .Aur umesh ji aapke sir ki choti se leker pair ke nakhoon tak ki 43 din tak bina nagaa kasam khaaker kehtaa hoon ki mere anterman main hi ek debate shuru ho jaataa hai,Pareshan karne lagtaa hai aur main usey discussion ke maddhyam se suljhaane ki koshish kartaa hoon kabhi kabhi . Jaisa ki yahaan per kiyaa hai. Aur yadi mera yeh mansik dukh ya pareshani kuchh learned members ke man main bhi aisa hi hai to aise kuchh pidit milker us ,dard ka solution dhoondhne ki koshish ker saktey hain.Aur yadi koi lalkitabee us peeda se ya pareshani se pidit nahi hai to uske paas sahi solution hone ki poori sambhavnaa hai.Yahi mera prayaas hai aur yahi meri research ka vishay.Aur iski remedy khud lalkitab hi hai yeh bhi mujhe pataa hai lekin kis roop main mere saamne aayegi yeh nahi pata lagtaa ,Kya iske liye mere jaise pratyek insaan ko sirf ye words hi sunne padenge "lalkitab ko padhtey raho" or "pandit ji ek mahan vyaktitva they ".Aur yahi suntey suntey main next generation ko bhi yahi lecture detaa rahoongaa .Kab tak akhir kab tak hum sabhi is aad ka saharaa letey rahengey ?shayad aap ya koi aur ya is group ke jaise kisi group ke sabhi lalkitabiyon main se koi lalkitabee meri bhi remedy sabit ho jaye.`Mere yeh words pratyek us lalkitabee ke hain jo ki lalkitab main doobne ki chaah rakhtaa ho.

Agar aisa koi lalkitabee hai jo ki is chaah se achhotaa reh gayaa hai aur lalkitab main doob gayaa hai to kyon khulker is bhed ko vyakt nahi karta.Iskaa to seedha sa yahi matlab hai ki ya to veh jhooth boltaa hai ya fir ………………………… hai.

Umesh ji mujhe to yeh lagtaa hai ki , shayad aapko meri pratyek mail se koi pareshani ho jaati hai.Aap mujhe likhtey dekh kyon itne adhik imotional ho jaatey hain samajh nahi aata.Kabhi To aap mujhe gyaani aur vidvaan jaise shabdon se chane ke tree per baithaane ki koshish kartey hain aur dosrey hi pal mujhe adiyal, aur na jaane kyaa kyaa likh daaltey hain. Meraa discussion bhi bakvaas hi lagtaa hai aapko. SAY CLEARLY PLZ--- R U FEELING OK IN THESE DAYS. Don take it otherwise. Really .im worried to see ur different views to me Becose Umesh Sharma is more important for us rather than this discussion. Arre yaar healthy rahogey tabhi discussion bhi healthy hoga na.

I know now u will again collect data ,which may be far away from discussion & research & possibly again may use offensive language to provide me any DOSE.But I will not reply ur such a mail. Acadmic mail ko bhi yeh dekhtey huve ki usmain is group ke aims included hain ya nahi ,tabhi reply likhunga. Itnaa desi ghee nahi khaayaa maine.

With regards

Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla , "Umesh Sharma" <mudit982001 wrote:>> Respected Bhatia ji thanx again for ur kind, fruitful,> > knowledgeful & specially experienceful ,co.operation to get some > more> > from this divine book..As u explained about Pitri Rin ,same views > r mine> > at that.Let us wait for other active members.> > > > With regards> > > > Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla> DEAR LALKITABEE V.K.SHUKLA JI, > KYA AAP HUMAIN YEH BATA SAKTEY HAIN KI JAB AAP KISI GROUP MAIN > KUNDLEE KO ANALYSIS KARTAIN HAIN TO USMAIN PITRI RIN DEKHTEAIN HAIN > YADI HAAN TO KYA AAPNEY KABHI KISI KI PURI FAMILY KI KUNDLIYAAN > MAANGI HAIN. YADI YE SAHI HEY TO KOI BHI EK UDHAHARAN DE DAIN.MUZE > TO ESA LAGTA HAI KI AAP BHATIA JI KI GOODWILL KA FAYDA UTHANEY KE > LIYE UNKI HAAN MAIN HAAN MILA RAHE HAIN.KYONKI MAINEY AAJ KI DATE > TAK KISI BHI GROUP MAIN AAPKI ESI KOI MAIL NAHIN PADI. HAAN APKE > DWARA KI GAI ANALYSIS VA UNKO BATAYE GAYE UPAY JAROOR PADE HAIN.> GROUPMEMBERS, AB AAP HI JUDGE KI KUCH LOG KYON JANBHOOJH KAR BHED > BHARI BATAIN KARTEY HAIN.> GUSTAKHI KE LIYE MAFI> UMESH SHARMA > , "lalkitabee" lalkitabee@ > wrote:> >> > > > So much respected Bhatia ji .> > > > Thanx for ur quick response. Ur reply is a milestone in this > discussion.> > Aapki is mail se bahut se sawalon ka jawab mil jane chahiye. > Khaas taur> > per unhain jo ki durusti ko sirf kisi grah ke taasir janne ka > tarikaa> > maantey hain.Agar abhi bhi na pataa chaley to table 8x1=8 se nahi > balki> > 2x1=2 se table start karna padega.8x8= ? ko kuchh din aur darkinar> > karnaa hoga.This is not a comment. Yeh to majboori hi hogi > na.isiliye> > aisa likh rahaa hoon.> > > > Respected Umesh ji & nirmal ji sirf tasir janna > aur> > remedy likhna hi durusti ka maksad hai to poori lalkitab kya hai?> > Usmain bhi to pratyek grah ke nek aur bad roop ko likha gaya hai, > yeh> > nek aur bad roop bhi to grahon ki tasir hi hain. Aise main alag se> > grammer likhne ki aur usmain durusti ka chapter daalne ki kyaa > jaroorat> > thi.Tasir dekhker grahfal ya rashifal dekhker hi upay likhey ja > sakety> > they.Lekin grammer fir bhi likhi gayee. Jahir hai ki iska bhi > maksad to> > hoga hi na.Aur usmaim teve ki durusti ke barey main likhne ka > maksad bhi> > sirf Umesh ji ke dwara likha gaya grah ki tasir janne tak seemit > ker> > denaa kahaan tak aur kis tarah swikaar kiya jaaye.(jabki pandit ji > to> > yahaan tak bol diyaa kartey they ki ghar se bahar nikal ker left > main> > kyaa milegaa aur kitne saal se uska vazood hogaa ghar se left ki > taraf.> > ) as teve ki durusti jaanch .> > > > Respected Bhatia ji thanx again for ur kind, fruitful,> > knowledgeful & specially experienceful ,co.operation to get some > more> > from this divine book..As u explained about Pitri Rin ,same views > r mine> > at that.Let us wait for other active members.> > > > With regards> > > > Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla> > > > , Rajinder Bhatia> > <rajinderbhatia2002@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Yograj Jee, Umesh Jee, Nirmal Jee, Vipin Jee and all > friends,> > >> > > My apologies for not jumping into this discussion earlier due to> > extreme busy-ness at work. Yograj jee wrote a wonderful reply > earlier> > which in reality is an outline of a volume that can, hopefully, be> > written by him in the next few years. (This is my sincere hope.)> > >> > > Regarding the "Durusti" here is what I'd like to add. Every > horoscope> > must be subjected to durusti before anything is done to/with it. > One of> > the techniques though not recommmended in LalKitab that I use is to> > check the degrees of each planet and see which one is about to > transit> > (or just did) to the next or previous (if retrograde) sign. I've > found> > that the planets on border line (cusp??) can give the effects of a> > previous house even though it may have transited a couple of days> > before. Similarly, for retrograde planets. Moon is a planet which > causes> > more issues than any other which must be looked at carefully. > Checking> > the ascendant and ascertaining its accuracy is of prime importance > too.> > Birth time may or may not have been accurately recorded. When to > record> > the actual time of birth is an issue that has been discussed in > numerous> > articles in various esteemed journals. So, it falls on you, the> > LalKitabist to fine-tune the horoscope (but I am not at all > recommending> > > graha spashti or chalit) Pt Roop Chand Jee has given symptoms of > many> > planets (and the tables at the end as mentioned by Umesh Jee) > which may> > be of help. Even if the symptoms are not given, one may try to see > if> > the halaat of the native match with what is written in the book. > Now> > that other editions of LalKitab are available publicly (especially > the> > 1939) one may try to use the principles of palmistry to validate > the> > horoscope (will require a lot of practice, though.)> > >> > > Another practice I follow (emulating the great one) is to go for > the> > whole family's horoscope. Pitri rin's full utilization has not been> > described in LalKitab. However, when I see the symptoms of a planet> > being really malefic, I like to see the entire family's > horoscopes. For> > example, if one's Mercury is bad, I find that pretty much the whole> > family's Mercury is posited badly (which will require the > treatment for> > Pitri Rin for the entire family.) Just doing one upaya may not > solve the> > problem - the whole family may be required to perform the Pitri Rin> > upaya. Trust me on this one Vipin Jee (although this is not > described so> > in LalKitab.) Pandit Roop Chand Jee (used to) and Pt Som Dutt jee> > continues to use this technique very effectively.> > >> > > It is also possible that you find, for example, that one's > Saturn is> > bad. You specify the remedial measure and the native performs the> > measure with full faith and yet no curative effects are visible. > Here> > may be why the upaya does not work. The native may be > storing/keeping> > items prohibited in the case of Saturn in the household or, in the> > parental home or even one of the brothers (or a renter in the > property)> > may have establsihed the prohibited articles like keeping liquor > etc. or> > other Saturanian activities may continue to be performed which > nullify> > the effect of the upaya. Or, the native's house may have defects> > (location, direction etc.) which compliment the evilness of Saturn > and> > the upayas will refuse to be effective.> > >> > > Will write more as time permits. I invite your thoughts on this.> > >> > > Respectfully,> > > Rajinder Bhatia> > >> > >> > >> > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > >> > > Respected Nirmal ji> > > Congrats. Dekho na bahut dino ke baad ek discussion bahut hi > rochak> > tarike se shuru hua hai aur agar yeh chaltaa rahaa to ho saktaa > hai ki> > lalkitab – grammer ki bahut si Unsuljhi gutthiyaan sulajh> > jayengi.(Mere khyaal se aap lalkitab main Unsuljhi gutthiyon hain--> is> > baat se sehmat to honge hi) .Isi din ke liye to aapne group ke > massages> > without moderation approve kiye they SHAYAD kuchh din pehely.> > > Shukriya Umesh Bhai. Bas yahi aur yahi veh jawaab hai jo ki aapne> > diyaa hai. Bus itnaa aur spasht ker dain ki KYAA DURUSTI JAANCHNE > KE> > LIYE LIKHI GAYEE SAARNI KAFI HAI YA ISSE BHI AAGE KUCHH ANUBHAV > KIYAA> > HAI LALKITAB KE SYSTEM MAIN AAPNEyadi durusti jaanchne ke baad bhi > aur> > durusti concerned person ki problem se co.relate hone per bhi yadi > 3 ya> > 4 din baad vahi insaan aapse aaker boley ki us din meraa time of > birth> > galat thaa ya yun kahey ki meraa birth morning ka nahi night ka > hai ,> > aaj dobaaraa se sahi time ke mutabik dekhain to kyaa durusti hogi > ya> > durusti kaa matlab kyaa hogaa us condition main, remedy to door ki > cheez> > hai. YAAD RAHEY TODAY KUNDLIS R AT EACH DESKTOP OR WEB UNDER A > FINGER> > PRESS & AKSAR PANDIT JI DURUSTI SAHI NAA MILNE PER SAAF SAAF BOL > DIYAA> > KARTEY THEY KI TEVAA THIK NAHI HAI. Unki is adaa ya yun kaho ki > durusti> > prakriyaa ke gawaah aaj bhi hain. Agar vo is massage ko read > karain to> > jaroor> > > apne views share karain.Umesh Bhai rahi baat mere gyaani hone > ki , is> > taarif ke liye shukriya, Lekin Main bhi ek astrostudent ki > haisiyat se> > hi is group main likh rahaa hoon. Yograj ji aap to aise bahut se > logon> > ko jaantey hongey jo ki pandit ji ki is durusti prakriyaa ke > gawaah rahe> > hon.Rajinder Bhatia ji bhi un gawahon main se ek hain.> > > Aur Umesh ji ne thik hi request ki hai ki --- DOSE JARA HALKI > DIYA> > KARAIN YE JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA > kyonki> > jahaan tak main samajhtaa hoon aapne apnaa jivan hi nahi bahut > kuchh> > lalkitab Ke naam arpan ker diyaa hai. Aapke ek prayaas se hi aaj> > lalkitab itni approachable ho gayi hai ki bade bade tathaakathit> > HASTINAPUR NARESH jo ki ORIGINAL LAL kitaab ko padhnaa padhaanaa > to door> > , dikhaanaa bhi kewal apni hi milkiyat samajhtey they,,, aaj > haaaaaaath> > mal rahey honge> > > Ise kehtey hain ------ -"Jor ka jhatkaa dhire se lagey. "> > > .> > > I salute u for this devotion & achievement Yograj ji. As well as > same> > to Nirmal ji.> > > Nirmal Ji my question "about the remedy failure" doesn't concern > the> > calculating to start from 8x1= 8. & I was waiting in same manner > AS 8X8> > = ? Fir bhi agar koi start se hi start karey to kaho kyaa > discussion ko> > stop ker diyaa jaaye. & As u told HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER > REFER TO> > FIRST FEW HUNDRED PAGES OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE> > USELESS AND HAVE GIVEN AISE HEE BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> > > MY ANSWER IS ---- THIS IS AS AN ABUSEMENT TO ME WITHOUT PROPER > READING> > OF MY MAIL .> > > I know nobody can reach the stature of pandit ji.But aasmaan ko> > chhoone ki koshish karne per aasmaan haath main aaye ya na aaye > insaan> > ka kad to unchaa ho hi jaataa hai na. Aur is group ka REASEARCH > OREINTED> > maksad bhi to yahi hai mere vichaar se .Aapne aur jo bhi questions> > poochhey hain unkey jawaab bhi shayd is discussion se nikal > jaayain.Ek> > baat aur---- maine bhi vahi prashn kiye hain previous mail main jo > ki> > aap mujhse pooch rahey hain.Mujhe ummeed hai ki Mere questions ke> > answers milne per aapke sabhi questions ke bhi answers mil> > jayenge.Kyonki mere ya aapke ya kisi aur ke kuchh likh dene ka yeh> > matlab nahi ki lalkitab ka siddhant poora ho gaya .kisi bhi result > ya> > research tak pahunchne ke liye discussion ek maakool kasauti > hai.Bus> > group ke active members ke response ka intejaar hai. Kyon Umesh ji > thik> > hai na.> > > With so much regard.> > > lalkitabee V.K.shukla> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "Umesh Sharma" mudit982001@> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Respeced Nirmal ji,> > > > AAPNEY PUCHA KI> > > > "THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING TEVE KI> > > > DURUSTI"> > > > ANS:ESMAIN DEBATABLE KYA HEY? JIS TARAH K.P.(KRISHNAMURTHY) > NEY APNI> > > > PADHATI BANAI AUR VAH APNEY BANAYE HUYE NIYMO PAR HI CHALTEY > HAIN> > > > UDHAHRAN KE LIYE K.P. KA APNA HI AYANANSHA HEY AUR VAH USEY HI > UPYOG> > > > MAIN LATEY HAIN THIK USI PRAKAR LAL-KITAB KI APNI PADHTHI > HEY.JAHAN> > > > TAK TEVE KI DURUSTI KA SWAL HEY VAH AADRANIY PANDIT JI KI APNI> > > > TECHNIC THI JISSEY VAH GRAH KI TAASIR DEKHTEY THE AUR TAASIR > DEKHNEY> > > > KE LIYE VOH GHAR (HOUSE) AUR GRAH SE MUTLKA UNSE SAMBHANDHIT> > > > NISHANIYAN (JO KI UN BHAVON YA GRAHON SE SAMBANDHIT CHIZEN HOTI> > > > HAIN JESE CHANDRMA KO MATA MANA HEY PARNTOO 12VAIN BHAV MAIN > AAYE> > > > CHANDARMA KO SAS YANI KI MOTHER-IN LAW MANA HEY) KO PUCHTEY > THE JIS> > > > SEY GRAH KI TAASIR KA PATA CHAL JAYE AUR YEHI TAASIR UPAY KO> > > > BATANEY MAIN KAAM MAIN LATEY THE. ESILIYE UNHONE KITAB KI > AAKHIR> > > > MAIN SARANI BHI DI HEY> > > > AGAR YEH DEKHEY BINA KI KONSA GRAH MANDA HEY AUR KONSA NAHIN, > AUR> > > > JO MANDA GRAH HEY VO RASHIPHAL KA HEY YA GRAHPHAL KA, AUR KAHIN> > > > MANDA GRAH PAPI TO NAHIN ?GRAH BHAV MAIN STHIT HOKAR KIS > JAANDAR YA> > > > BEJAN VASTU DWARA APNA ASAR DIKHA RAHA HEY. KYA AAP SAHI UPAY > KRA> > > > SAKTEY HAIN? AGAR NAHIN TO EN SAB KO JACHANEY KO HI TEVE KI > DURUSTI> > > > KAHTEY HAIN. YAHAN DURUSTI KA MATLAB CORRECTION HONA NAHIN HEY > BALKI> > > > JACHNA YANI KI EXAMIN KRNA HEY.> > > >> > > > AADRINYA LALKITABI JI AAP JESA> > > > GYANI VYAKTI JO KI ES VIDYA KO JANANEY VALON MAIN APNA EK STHAN> > > > RAKHTA HAIN, KA YEH PUCHNA AJIB SA LAGTA HEY. MAIN YEH ACHI > TARAH> > > > JANTA HOON KI AAP ES KITAB KI GRAMMER KO BAHUT ACHI TARAH > JANTEY> > > > HAIN JISKA EK NAZARA HUM RUSSIAN CULTURE CENTRE DELHI MAIN HUE> > > > LALKITAB PAR AAP DWARA DIYE GAYE VYAKHYAN DWARA HUM DEKH CHUKEY> > > > HAIN.ATAH AAP KA ESA SWAL PUCHNA THODA JACHTA NAHIN. VESE TO > SAB> > > > SWATANTAR HAIN. YE TO AAP MANEGAIN HI KI LALKITAB APNEY AAP > MAIN EK> > > > PADHATI HEY JISKEY DWARA HUM-AAP SAB UPAY KRATEY HAIN TO AGAR > EK> > > > UPAY KAAM NAHIN KAR RAHA TO ESKA MATLAB YEH HEY KI HUM KAHIN > GALATI> > > > KAR RAHEY HAIN,YA PHIR LALKITAB PADHATI GALAT HEY. AAP KYA > KAHTEY> > > > HAIN?> > > >> > > > PRABHAKAR JI AAPSEY REQUEST HEY KI DOSE JARA HALKI DIYA KARAIN > YE> > > > JARURI NAHIN KI HAR VYAKTI HEAVY DOSE KO PACHA HI LEGA.> > > >> > > > APNI MUD-MATI SE JITNA SAMAJH MAIN AAYA VAH VYAKAT KAR DIYA. > KISI> > > > BHI BHUL KE LIYE SHAMAPRARTHI HOON.> > > > THANKS> > > > REGARDS> > > > UMESH SHARMA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , NKB nirbhar@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Respected Shukla Ji,> > > > > Namaskar,> > > > > Thanks on behalf of the group to start a discussion after a > long> > > > mum. Your> > > > > reply have prompted me to give my queries/doubts/opinion. I > have> > > > tried to> > > > > give my opinion as far as my knowledge is concerned and I > wish the> > > > other> > > > > group members will give their opinion. My words are in blue > and in> > > > Capital> > > > > letters under respective paras> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 2/12/07, lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Respected Yograj ji> > > > > >> > > > > > Now this sentence> > > > > >> > > > > > "Duniyaavi hisaab kitaab hai koi daava E khudayee nahi> > > > > >> > > > > > Bimaari ka ilaaz hai maut ka koi ilaaz nahi." is known all > of> > > > us bcause> > > > > > all we r students here.But my question is still there > about to> > > > know the> > > > > > problem of consultee to know or find as curable BIMAARI or> > > > incurable> > > > > > MAUT. Bcause-------------> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > 1.The point Teve ki durusti :- Teve ki durusti is a point > where> > > > all> > > > > > astrologers have differ views or analyses to point any yard> > > > stick at> > > > > > different points.So finding a proper point ,itself creates> > > > another point> > > > > > to debate.> > > > > >> > > > > > THIS IS A DEBATABLE QUERY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW REGARDING > TEVE KI> > > > DURUSTI.> > > > > >> > > > > > 2.Balig Aur Nabalig tevaa.:- It is also a controversial> > > > part ,bcoz> > > > > > lalkitab says> > > > > >> > > > > > "Band mutthi (1,7,4,10) khaali ho ya sirf paapi grah ya > budh> > > > akelaa (papi> > > > > > grah ya budh dono main se sirf ek ) ho to tevaa nabalig > hoga.> > > > Now wat shud> > > > > > we understand by these lines , options r as under :-> > > > > >> > > > > > (i) band mutthi ke koyee 2 or 3 khano> > > > main paapi> > > > > > grah shani ,rahu ketu honge tab teva nabalig hoga?> > > > > >> > > > > > HOW THE PAAPI PLANETS FORMED IN TEVA> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > (ii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main koi> > > > paapi grah> > > > > > hoga tab tevaa nabalig hoga?> > > > > >> > > > > > (EK KHANAY MAIN PAAPI GRAH KAISE HO SAKTE HAIN)> > > > > >> > > > > > (iii) band mutthi ke kisi ek khane main budh> > > > hoga tab> > > > > > teva nabalig hoga?> > > > > >> > > > > > Here wat shud we accept--- all papi in> > > > band mutthi> > > > > > or any one out of papi in a single khana of band mutthi ?> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > IF ONE IS CLEAR ABOUT HOW THE PAAPI FORMED THE QUERRY DOES > NOT> > > > ARISE> > > > > >> > > > > > Secondly if Budh placed in 6th & sun in> > > > 5th in a> > > > > > kund> > > > > >> > > > > > li ,as well as papi planets r in band muthi.Now wat type of> > > > tevaa this wil> > > > > > be.BALIG or NABALIG bcoz both symptoms r there. At other> > > > side u really> > > > > > say universal truth that most of modern astrologers ignore > this> > > > fact to take> > > > > > remedial measurements, I think due to this controversy of > balig> > > > or nabalig.> > > > > > But ur opinion is regardable .> > > > > >> > > > > > THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINTS IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT ARE > PAAPI> > > > GRAHS AND> > > > > > HOW THESE ARE FORMED", WHAT IS NAABALIG TEVA, CAN PRESENCE > OF> > > > SUN IN 5TH AND> > > > > > 11TH NULLIFY THE EFFECT OF NAABAALIG TEVA/MAKE THE > NABBALIG TEVA> > > > AS> > > > > > BAALIG. IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAALIG GRAH OR > BAALIG> > > > TEVA.> > > > > >> > > > > > 3.Dharmi Tevaa :- This proves only the NEUTERAL action of > shani> > > > rahu ketu,> > > > > > even they prove bad by the techniques of BUDH KA BHED, > SHANI KA> > > > JAATI> > > > > > SWABHAAV, GRAHFAL PLANET.> > > > > >> > > > > > BUDH KA BHED- HOW BUDH KAA BHED PROVE THE BADNESS OF OTHER> > > > PLANETS?> > > > > >> > > > > > SHANI KA JAATI SWABHAAV- ON WHICH ITEMS IT WILL EFFECT-> SATURN'S> > > > OR OTHER> > > > > > PLANETS ALSO.> > > > > >> > > > > > Grahphal planet- HOW THESE PROVE BADNESS OF OTHER PLANET?> > > > > >> > > > > > .It doesn't mean that papi planets will be good .> > > > > >> > > > > > *THE OVERALL DEBATABLE POINT IN THIS QUERY IS " WHAT IS > DHARMI> > > > TEVA, HOW> > > > > > IT IS FORMED, HOW ARE THE REMEDIAL MEASURES DIFFER IN > DHARMI> > > > TEVA FRO> > > > > > OTHERS."*> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > 4. Baap bete ki mushtarka kundali :- By this wat u want to > say> > > > about failure> > > > > > of remedy.Im unable to understand.Plz. elaborate it in a > seprate> > > > mail in> > > > > > group if possible.> > > > > >> > > > > > IT IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE DEBATE IS -WHO WILL RULE > SON OR> > > > FATHER'S> > > > > > TEVA IN CASE OF LIVING COMBINED. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS > WHERE> > > > THIS IS> > > > > > APPLICABLE.> > > > > >> > > > > > 5.NASHT GRAH & PITRI RIN both have only difference . 1st is> > > > self> > > > > > created or as per chance destroyed grah & 2nd is BUJURG> > > > created.Which r> > > > > > reflectable in kundali.I think only the consultee's tevaa > cant> > > > be a yard> > > > > > stick for pitri rin.bcoz pitri rin comes to next > generation, not> > > > to any> > > > > > particular person of next generation.> > > > > >> > > > > > I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND THE JUSTIFICATION. HOW THE NASHTA > GRAH> > > > IS RELATED> > > > > > WITH PITRI RIN. WHAT IS NASHTA GRAH. HOW IT IS IDENTIFIED. > I> > > > FEEL BOTH HAVE> > > > > > DIFFERENT ENTITY.> > > > > >> > > > > > 6.Now u telling about BUDH KA BHED , SHANI KA JAATI > SWABHAV,> > > > GRAHFAL KA> > > > > > GRAH, RASHIFAL KA GRAH.> > > > > >> > > > > > Im picking a tevaa which has been analyzed in lalkitab by> > > > My Manas> > > > > > Gurudev & Poojya Pandit ji.U can see there.The person > borned in> > > > SAMVAT> > > > > > 1943, The planetry position is:- khana no. 1----- empty, > khana> > > > no.2------Shani,> > > > > > Khanano. 3 ---------rahu , no. 4 ----empty, no.5-----> Sun.Ven,Jup> > > > > > no.6------- MaR+Budh, no7 h ---- empty, No.8th ----> > > > moon, no9> > > > > > --------- Ketu, ,. 10th 11th 12th ---- empty,> > > > > >> > > > > > Poojya pandit ji analyzed & we found :-> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > (i) nowhere any statement according to> > > > Grahfal> > > > > > by janmdin & jamvaqt for a remedy .> > > > > >> > > > > > (ii) I calculated budh ka bhed = GURU> > > > SWABHAV.> > > > > >> > > > > > (iii) Shani Ka jati swabhav = Bad> > > > > >> > > > > > (iv) Tevaa is NABALIG `due to KHALI MUTTHI> > > > KE KHANE" But> > > > > > Teva is BALIG also due to sun in 5th budh in 6th (Both> > conditions> > > > > > fulfilled, What is considerable ?)> > > > > >> > > > > > (v) Pitri Rin 1st Avastha 2nd Avasthaa> > > > also> > > > > > visible.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Steps taken for Teve Ki durusti:-> > > > > >> > > > > > (i) Chache 2 bhai,aap akele bhai Mangal> > > > no 6, Jis> > > > > > din se shaadi huyee sasural gark huye. Sanichchar no.2, > Doosri> > > > shadi sooraj> > > > > > shukkar 2 (two) ladke kya? Aurat ko khoon ki bimari to nahi> > > > huyee, 5 saal> > > > > > pehley chudiyaan banvayee to nahi48/49 ki umra main > chudiyon ne> > > > bolnaa tha> > > > > > ,makaan main fisal ker giri, chudiyon ko doctor ne kainchi > se> > > > kaata.> > > > > >> > > > > > (ii) Kya aankhon ka operation karwaanaa> > > > hai , haan> > > > > > ,budh no. 8 agar 6 bachchey kayam ho to aankhon ka > operation> > > > thik nahi hogaa> > > > > >> > > > > > Remedial Process at :--> > > > > >> > > > > > (i) Sukra No. 6 tadaad bachchon ki 6> > > > tak rahega ,agar> > > > > > khana no.2 se brihaspat milega varshfal main mil rahaa> > > > hai,bachchey is> > > > > > vaqt 5 hain isliye operation karwaana thik hoga.Aurat ke > haath> > se> > > > > > kanak(wheat), ya gud, taamaba ,sona daal chana lagwaa ker> > > > mandir main> > > > > > rakhwaane ke baad operation thik hoga.> > > > > >> > > > > > U told �"An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider> > > > the "Pitri-Rin" as> > > > > > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives> > > > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of> > > > performing> > > > > > numerous remedial measures.> > > > > >> > > > > > But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I > think> > > > there was> > > > > > no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major> > > > feature).Secondly how> > > > > > used shani & budh ka swabhav. Third point--- It is > puzzeling to> > > > mark> > > > > > tevaa is balig or nabalig, but age is 64 at the time of> > > > analyzation so we> > > > > > accept tevaa is balig so may be the remedy provided in > perview> > > > of balig> > > > > > tevaa ,But making durusti of tevaa the problem is---- Teva > is> > > > balig or> > > > > > nabalig.(due to both conditions),Bcoz the effects of balig > & > > > > nabalig> > > > > > tevaa planets r different to mark durusti.(teve ko ya to > balig> > > > hi lenge> > > > > > ya fir nabalig).Now clear it plz Yograj ji --- ki aise main> > > > aapke dwaaraa> > > > > > spasht ker likhi gayee modus operandi ko pandit ji ne > kaise use> > > > kiyaa hai ya> > > > > > yun samjhain ki pandit ji ke dwaraa agar yahi technique > use ki> > > > gayee to aap> > > > > > ismain kaise spasht karenge.Specially to make remedy.> > > > > >> > > > > > Yograj ji I know a devotee scholar of this devine> > > > knowledge> > > > > > can help me to understand this topic & u r one of them.So > im> > > > again> > > > > > requestibg u �plz read my mail carefully & answer.> > > > > >> > > > > > Now im unable to understand that which technique adopted > to mark> > > > teve ki> > > > > > durusti, bcoz durusti is such a process which can be taken > after> > > > analyzation> > > > > > incluiding techniques .It needs a proper study about > malefic & > > > > benefic> > > > > > aspects of each planet.But for remedial process where > used ,budh> > > > ka bhed,> > > > > > balig or nabalig,Pitri rin remedy ? Aap ke dwaraa spasht ki> > > > gayee vidhi> > > > > > ko main challenge nahi ker rahaa hun ,tarikaa vahi hai, > lekin> > > > question bhi> > > > > > hai ki remedy failure ko bhi evaluate kar liyaa jaye to > kyaa> > > > harz hai.ButHow���.> > > > > > it is a question Plz help me to sort out that point . This > is> > > > y ---- I> > > > > > asked about remedy failure, bcoz there may be a hidden > criteria> > > > to decide> > > > > > that pandit ji told " aurat ke haath se ���.etc."> > remedy> > > > karne ke baad> > > > > > operation thik ho jayega agar 5 bachchey hain to.( aisa > pandit> > > > ji tabhi likh> > > > > > saktey they jab ki unhain veh technique ka pataa ho).Aur > kahin> > > > na kahin per> > > > > > lalkitab ishaaraa jaroor karti hogi ki remedial decision > kartey> > > > huye koi ek> > > > > > technique hi kaargar ho sakegi ya yun kahain ki umbrella > banne> > > > ke kabil> > > > > > hogi.sabhi techniques nahi.Agar aisa hotaa to aapke dwaaraa> > > > likhi ya> > > > > > spasht ki gayee sabhi techniques ko pandit ji use kartey > huye> > > > spashtikaran> > > > > > bhi detey.Bus veh point hi dhoondhne ke liye maine aapke > saamne> > > > parshn> > > > > > rakhaa hai. Aakhir hain to ham sabhi hi is > group> > > > main. Other> > > > > > wise yeh to sabhi jaantey I hain ki "> > > > > >> > > > > > I FEEL NON OF THE PRESENT ASTROLOGER COULD EVER REACH THE > STATUS> > > > OF PUNDIT> > > > > > JI.> > > > > >> > > > > > SHUKLA JEE, CAN YOU CLARIFY FROM ON WHICH PRINCIPLES THE> > > > QUESTIONS RAISED> > > > > > IN ABOVE EXAMPLE OF TEVA INTERPRETION AND IN WHICH PLANET> > > > PROPERTIES THESE> > > > > > ARE STATED IN LALKITAB.> > > > > >> > > > > > HERE IS THE DEBATE.> > > > > >> > > > > > · HOW THE TIMING OF EVENTS ARE RELATED WITH THE> > > > OCCURRENCE OF SUCH> > > > > > THINGS LIKE MAKING OF GOLD BANGLES, WITH TOO MUCH COPPER > IN IT,> > > > > >> > > > > > · HOW THE NUMBER OF SONS 5 OR 6 IS TAKEN.> > > > > >> > > > > > · WHY THE EYE OPERATION NEEDED. HOW DOES IT CONCERNS> > > > WITH SONS> > > > > >> > > > > > · HOW MANY TIMES ANY ASTROLOGER REFER TO FIRST FEW> > > > HUNDRED PAGES> > > > > > OF LALKITAB (WHICH AS PER YOUR VERSION ARE USELESS AND HAVE> > > > GIVEN AISE HEE> > > > > > BY PUNDIT JI AND OF NO USE")> > > > > >> > > > > > LET ME GIVE MY OPINION:> > > > > >> > > > > > THIS KUNDLI OF EXAMPLE IS OF YEAR 1887 AND ANALYZED IN > 1951.> > > > PUNDIT JEE> > > > > > WROTE FIRST BOOK IN 1939 (LALKITAB KE FARMAAN) , WHAT > WOULD BE> > > > HIS AGE THEN> > > > > > (A YOUTH IN HIS THIRTIES, MY AASUMPTIONS ). ANOTHER BOOK > WRITTEN> > > > IN 1940> > > > > > (LALKITAB KE ARMAAN), AGAIN IT IS IN YOUNG AGE. I HOPE > THAT YOU> > > > HAVE> > > > > >> > > > > > ACCESS TO ALL HIS BOOKS. LET US ASSUME BY OUR TUCHHA BUDHI > THAT> > > > PUNDIT JEE> > > > > > HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF UNDER TWENTY YEARS AT THAT AGE. NOW> > > > EXAMINE THESE> > > > > > BOOKS RATHER DEEP AUDIT THESE BOOKS. PUNDIT JEE HAD > EXPERIENCE> > > > OF UNDER 20> > > > > > YEARS. HERE PUNDIT JEE HAD DESCRIBED THE WAY OF ANALYZING > THE> > > > HOROSCOPE UPTO> > > > > > A MINUTE LEVEL, ASSUMING THAT THE READER DONOT KNOW MUCH > ABOUT> > > > LALKITAB> > > > > > THEORY. PLEASE SEE THE WORKSHEETS GIVEN IN THE ARMAAN > 1940'S> > > > LAST PAGES.> > > > > > HERE PUNDIT JI TABULATED ALL THE TERMS/TYPES OF> > > > > >> > > > > > CONDITIONS AS YOU ASKED ABOVE. NOW CAN WE SAY THAT PUNDIT > JI> > > > NEVER USED OR> > > > > > IGNORED THESE TERMS LIKE HRIN,BAALIG OR NABAALIG ETC.> > > > > >> > > > > > THE EXAMPLE YOU ARE CITING IS OF 1952 BOOK. THAT IS 13 > YEARS> > > > AFTER THE> > > > > > WRITING OF FIRST BOOK. HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. SO > MANY> > > > ITEMS ARE> > > > > > DESCRIBED IN VERY SHORT, EVEN THE KHANA WISE ASHIAAN WERE > NOT> > > > DISCUSSED IN> > > > > > ILLUSTRATION OF PAKKA KHANAS. RATHER THESE ARE GIVEN IN A> > > > TABULAR FORM.> > > > > > WHILE IN 1942 BOOKS THESE ARE DISCUSSED IN INDIVIDUAL > KHANA WISE> > > > > > ILLUSTRATION.> > > > > >> > > > > > MY POINT OF OPINION HERE IS THAT A PERSON HAVING SO MUCH> > > > EXPERIENCE AND> > > > > > KNOWLEDGE AND HAD ALREADY WRITTEN A SERIES OF BOOKS ON SAME> > > > TOPIC, SOMETIMES> > > > > > DO NOT GO FOR TOO MUCH MINUTE LEVEL WHILE WRITING> > > > > >> > > > > > ANOTHER BOOK IN CONTINUAL SERIES, ASSUMING IT THAT THE > READERS> > > > HAD ALREADY> > > > > > READ HIS EARLIER BOOKS AND MIGHT BE KNOWING IT.> > > > > >> > > > > > DO WE RECITE THE TABLE OF 8 FROM START , AS WE WERE DOING > IN> > > > CHILDHOOD,> > > > > > WHILE CALCULATING THE VALUE OF 8X8. PERHAPS NO BECAUSE WE > HAVE> > > > ALREADY IN> > > > > > OUR MIND THE OUTCOME, WHICH WE GAIN FROM OUR CONTINUAL > REVISION> > > > AND> > > > > > EXPERIENCE.> > > > > >> > > > > > THEREFORE IN MY OPINION> > > > > >> > > > > > · WE SHOULD NOT GO FOR CONCLUSION IMMEDIATELY BY> > > > READING A SMALL> > > > > > PART OF BOOK.> > > > > >> > > > > > · EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK IS FOR APPLYING IT IN> > > > > > INTERPRETION, NO NON-PERFORMING MATERIAL IS GIVEN IN THE > BOOK TO> > > > MAKE IT> > > > > > VOLUMINOUS.> > > > > >> > > > > > · IT IS WE WHO HAVE TO DIG IN FIND THE SOLUTION FROM> > > > THE BOOK> > > > > > ITSELF.> > > > > >> > > > > > · REGARDING THE FAILURE OF THE REMEDIES, IT IS LIKE THE> > > > WRONG> > > > > > DIAGNOSIS. MY BASIC QUERIES TO ALL THE PRACTICING > ASTROLOGERS> > ARE> > > > > >> > > > > > · CAN WE EVER TRY TO FIND WHY A PARTICULAR POSITION OF> > > > A PLANET IS> > > > > > BAD FOR MALE WHILE THE SAME POSITION IS GOOD FOR FEMALE.> > > > > >> > > > > > · HAVE THEY ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE INTERPRETATION OF> > > > EXAMPLES> > > > > > GIVEN IN THE BOOK, LIKE YOU CITED ABOVE.> > > > > >> > > > > > · HAVE THEY EVER USED TIMING OF EVENTS BEFOREHAND OR> > > > JUST DO> > > > > > POSTMORTEM AND PRESCRIBE REMEDIES WITHOUT GOING DEEP INTO > CAUSE.> > > > > >> > > > > > · HAVE ANY BODY SINCE SO FAR DEVELOPED A SYSTEMATIC> > > > APPROACH TO> > > > > > LALKITAB.> > > > > >> > > > > > · I KNOW THE MAIN ANSWER FROM MOST OF THE ASTROLOGERS> > > > LIKE ME ARE> > > > > > " KEEP ON READING THE BOOK IT WILL OPEN IT BHED TO YOU" AS> > > > WRITTEN IN THE> > > > > > BOOK ITSELF.> > > > > >> > > > > > DEAR FRIENDS, PUNDIT JI HAVE GIVEN US THE TREASURE TO BE > USED> > FOR> > > > > > HUMANITY, IT IS UPTO US TO EXPLORE IT IN TRUE AND RIGHT > SPIRIT> > > > OF THE> > > > > > BOOK. IN THIS COMMON PLATFORM , WE MUST TRY TO MAKE THIS > BOOK> > > > SIMPLE BY> > > > > > DOING RESEARCH AND GIVE OUR GENERATION BEST OF IT.WE ALL > KNOW> > > > THAT THIS> > > > > > BOOKS HAS ROOTS OF ANCIENT INDIA/PUNJAB FROM WHICH OUR NEW> > > > GENERATION IS> > > > > > GOING FAR AWAY DAY BY DAY. EVEN AT PRESENT WE HAVE TO FIND > THE> > > > OLDAGE> > > > > > NATIVES OF PUNJABI ROOT , TO ASK THE MEANINGS OF THE> > > > WORDS/PHRASES OF THE> > > > > > BOOK. WHAT WILL BE SITUATION AFTER FEW DECADES. ARE WE > GOING TO> > > > LEFT BEHIND> > > > > > THIS HUGE PITRI HRIN TO OUR GENERATIONS.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best Regards> > > > > >> > > > > > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , Yograj Prabhakar> > > > <yr_prabhakar@>> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,> > > > > > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message > from my> > > > good old> > > > > > friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum. > The> > > > point he> > > > > > raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why do> > > > remedies don't> > > > > > work? It is a question that many of us (particularly the> > > > professional> > > > > > astrologers) must have come across one time or another. > Now the> > > > next> > > > > > question is what should be the criteria, what should be the> > > > yardstick and> > > > > > what should be the exact modus operandi to find the > problematic> > > > area in a> > > > > > chart? I am very sorry to say that most of the Lal Kitab> > > > practitioners are> > > > > > not paying complete consideration to this segment and they > often> > > > diverge> > > > > > from the very principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their > main> > > > thrust is to> > > > > > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy > and> > > > undesired)> > > > > > that is why they lack the "killer punch". This very > impetuosity> > > > is one of> > > > > > the causes for a grand failure.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for> > > > analysing a chart> > > > > > as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and senior> > > > colleagues.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is > the "Tewe> > > > Ki> > > > > > Darustee", I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. > Umesh> > > > Sharma ji, Mr.> > > > > > Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a handful> > > > others) use this> > > > > > rectification technique. How one can do justice with the > client> > > > and this> > > > > > divine subject without a proper "Darustee" of the chart? > Good> > > > results can be> > > > > > expected once an appropriate "Darustee" of the chart is > done.> > > > Pt. Ji advised> > > > > > to shake the chart 2-3 times to achieve the clear picture.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The second very important factor is to find whether the > Tewa> > > > is "Baalig"> > > > > > or "Naa-Baaligh", as Lal Kitab uses a separate process for > both> > > > of these.> > > > > > Even the Varsh-Phal of a "Na-Baaligh" will be different > from the> > > > normal one> > > > > > (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of Lal Kitab Teesra Hissa> > (GuTka)-> > > > 1941).> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the "Dharmi > Tewa"> > > > > > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an> > > > entirely> > > > > > different approach in case of a "Dharmi Tewa". Unlike a > normal> > > > Tewa the> > > > > > planets in a "Dharmi-Tewa" behaves in a different way.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor > the> > > > other day.> > > > > > That point is regarding "Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli",> > > > particularly in> > > > > > case of a joint family this point is worth considering.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The consideration of "Nasht Ho Chukey Grah" is also > necessary> > > > (detail of> > > > > > these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab), because > in> > > > such cases> > > > > > remedial measures are entirely different.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider > the "Pitri-Rin"> > > > as a> > > > > > major feature, because I have seen that the natives> > > > having "Pitri-Rin" in> > > > > > their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite of> > > > performing> > > > > > numerous remedial measures.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is > to> > > > determine the> > > > > > problematic area (planets). This is a very delicate and> > > > sensitive part of> > > > > > analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab astrology, because> > > > sometimes what> > > > > > we see on the paper does not reflect the true picture. > Once the> > > > malefic> > > > > > planets are recognized � half of the work is done. It is> > > > utmost urgent to> > > > > > know the nature of the planets in a Chart. There are > various> > > > method> > > > > > described in detail in the revered Lal Kitab i.e. "Budh Ka > Bhed"> > > > for> > > > > > knowing the exact nature of the planet Mercury and "Shani > Ka> > > > Zaati Swabhao"> > > > > > for Saturn and so on.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic > planet in> > > > a chart,> > > > > > the most important thing is to determine whether the planet> > > > (rather its> > > > > > effects) is remediable or not. I am talking about "Grah-> Phal"> > and> > > > > > "Rashi-Phal", because it is said in the very beginning of > the> > > > revered Lal> > > > > > Kitab that "Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka Koyi Ilaaj> > > > Nahee", it is> > > > > > very clear from this phrase that the "Maut" (death) > is "Grah-> > > > Phal" and is> > > > > > irremediable, whereas the "Beemari" (illness) is "Rashi-> Phal"> > > > and is> > > > > > possibly repairable. So one should be vigilant and watchful> > while> > > > > > recommending the remedies.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect > any> > > > miracle,> > > > > > although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like any> > > > paranormal> > > > > > thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If the> > > > remedies are> > > > > > suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates the> > > > depressing energies> > > > > > and the native is blessed with positive energies around > him. It> > > > helps him to> > > > > > think positively, to appreciate the situation honestly and > fight> > > > the state> > > > > > of affairs more bravely. It is not in the human capacity to> > > > prevent the> > > > > > rainfall, but the divine umbrella of remedies > unquestionably> > > > helps him to> > > > > > safeguard himself from being drenched. If one can't slay a> > > > beast, he can> > > > > > atleast elevate his periphery walls so that the creature > could> > > > not trespass> > > > > > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by > using> > > > Saam (by> > > > > > Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed (by> > > > Mischief) is> > > > > > commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for reducing or> > > > increasing the> > > > > > bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > > > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a > particular> > > > planet for> > > > > > reducing or increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.> > > > > > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning articles> > > > related to a> > > > > > particular planet for altering the negative effects in ones> > > > favour.> > > > > > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or keeping items > of a> > > > particular> > > > > > planet, try to remove a particular segment (as per > Masnooyee> > Grah> > > > > > combination) of a malefic planet wherever possible, > establishing> > > > a common> > > > > > friend between two rival planets and strengthening a > planet that> > > > is believed> > > > > > to have the power to level a wayward planet (e.g. Mars for > Rahu)> > > > etc.> > > > > > reduces the malefic effects of a malefic planet and > enhance the> > > > positive> > > > > > results of the suffering one.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Yograj Prabhakar> > > > > > >> > > > > > > lalkitabee lalkitabee@ wrote:> > > > > > > Respected members & moderators & owner> > > > > > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which > has been> > > > done in> > > > > > this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic> > > > stature to> > > > > > provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me > also> > > > that we> > > > > > shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.> > > > > > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab > says> > > > about> > > > > > JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any> > > > criteria to> > > > > > measure that remedy of concerned planet will be effective > or> > > > not.bcozsometimes we found bad planet as bad in varshfal & > > janmkundli> > > > > > both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper remedy as well as> > > > lalkitab> > > > > > says.Even analazational measurements indicates about its> > > > > > effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat > shud we> > > > analyze> > > > > > bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers, some > of> > > > them say to> > > > > > see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe makaan> > > > kundali.Some assume> > > > > > only the power of nature & give importance to kp system.But> > > > after cross> > > > > > disscussions all sit quit silent or addressed me > accentric.So im> > > > putting> > > > > > this question in this group to make a healthy > disscussion .My> > > > personal> > > > > > request- all of us shud focus this issue only at planetry> > > > analyzations as> > > > > > per lalkitab.Not at other spiritual,philosophical or > religious> > > > point of> > > > > > views.Only> > > > > > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of > lallkitab.I> > > > think> > > > > > Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned > members> > > > will> > > > > > co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.> > > > > > > With regards> > > > > > > Lalkitabee> > > > > > > Shastri V.K.Shukla> > > > > > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > TV dinner still cooling?> > > > > > > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on TV.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Don't be flakey. Get Mail for Mobile and> > > always stay connected to friends.> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Respected Bhardwaj ji

This disscussion is specially related to " remedy failure " & after my

1st mail no doubt Prabhaker ji given a comprehensive best suitable

answer.But bhardwaj ji the disscussion which i initiated ,that

belongs after this modus operandi (which yograj ji explained.).If a

person is disscussing like this topic, it is understood that all

these r clear in his mind(merely or majorly). & he wants to join a

research oriented job

& waiting for the responses of learned fellows with ahead deep

stepped views.

Which line u quoted from my mail that is only a part of my

mail to focus all learned members directly at that corner which

seems hidden.All of us r fixed at this point of pitri rin, including

me.But y pandit ji didn't used it as major part in his analyses.It

stunned me.They provided remedies without it how & y ?Even no

indication given about pitri rin in this Horoscope's analyses. It

means anything is more there by which we can decide more in process

of deciding remedy. i thought -- may be there is any other portion

also .I cant condemn Pandit ji ,even in dreams.But i can try to

acheive that goal of hidden treasury by help of the analyses of

pandit ji.So I asked as disscussion in previous mail - "

" But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think

there was no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major

feature) "

All this LINE & some more Lines are to focus directly for

reasearch oriented view.Meri mail ko dhyaan se padhiye.Aaj jab

sabhi (including me) is baat se sehmat hain ki pitri rin ka upay

compulsry hai ya bahut madadgar hai to bhi mere mastishk main vahi

sawal hai ki pandit ji to galat ho hi nahi saktey.To kyaa kaaran tha

ki unhone ise apne is kundali se related analyses main importance

nahi di.Iska matlab to yahi hai ki isse hat ker bhi kuchh hai aur

kitab ka bhed apne aap khul jaane ki jo baat pandit ji ne likhi

hai ,uske mutabik shayad kisi ke mind main yeh bhed khulaa hua ho

aur spasht ho jaaye. Bus yahi meraa maksad hai us line main aur usse

sambandhit doosri lines main bhi.That is not any final verdict only

a part to focus my point.Im trying to search all aspects as a

reasearch oreinted quotation or defination or a planetry position

with particular measurements of learning & experience with System of

lalkitab about remedy failure. & im feeling some satisfied that all

of us accept Pitri Rin as a major feature.But still may be some more

aspects there & im serious in this matter.

If u feel that i erected a topic which is really according to

terms & motives of ur group ,for which u r collecting TINKAA TINKAA

with so much efforts & providing free for seekers. In case

Without understanding Such a deep research oriented topic if anybody

will use such language .... heavy dose.. pachaa lenaa etc.U say--

wat will i do?Main to TEEKA (Injecion) hi thokoongaa na Dose ki

jagah, vo bhi insaano wala nahi. Aap samajh gaye honge kaisa.Jo

insaan baat ki depth ko binaa samjhe chutki legaa to aap bolain kyaa

aap use bardaasht karenge.Lekin shayd aap busy rahey hon isliye is

taraf dhyaan nahi de sakey aur maine apne hi tarike se handle karne

ki koshish ki.Nirmal ji agar aapko lagtaa hai ki merey dwaraa liyaa

gayaa topic group ke motive se alag hai aur betukaa hai to plz aap

mujhe khule aam bol dain.I will withdraw with sorry to all.(All

means all.

With Regards

Lalkitabee V.K.Shukla.

, " Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj "

<nirbhar wrote:

>

> Respected Shukla Ji,

> If any word of mine offended you please let me off as I had no

> intentions to hurt your sentiments in anyway while replying your

> message.

>

> Please read the following lines

>

> " But nowhere pandit ji told any remedy for pitri rin, (I think

there

> was no need to analyze pitririn ,So how it can be a major feature) "

>

> Above lines were written by you.and i tried to give the best

suited

> reply of your lines. I am really astonished that a learned man of

> Lalkitab like you, have straightway rejected the ideology of Pt.

Roop

> Chand Joshi Ji. Please go through the page no 122 to 142 of

grammer

> where Pandit Ji have written about the pitri rin and its upayas.

>

> Regards

> Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

>

> , " Nirmal Kumar

> Bhardwaj " <nirbhar@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Prabhakar Ji,

> > you have given very illustrative and systematic way of analysing

a

> > kundli. Not many astrologers go in these details before

prescribing

> > medicine. I can term this as a very bold step. Only A Person

like

> you

> > can do it. Bold step is termed in the sense that a practizing

> > astrologer most unlikely to give these amalytical steps to

others.

> > But here the illustration given by you may help the students

like

> me

> > to develope a systemetic approach/method.

> > let us all as members of this group develope a worksheet to

enable

> > the amatuers to go for a predeifned path. Pandit ji has given

such

> > few worksheets in lastpages of Lal Kitab Ke Armaan.

> > I wish somepne to come forward to make it in tabular form in

> English

> > for all members of group who donot know urdu.

> > Regards

> > Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj

> >

> > , Yograj Prabhakar

> > <yr_prabhakar@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Lalkitabee ji and Gurujans,

> > > It is indeed a pleasant occurrence to find a message from my

> good

> > old friend Pt. Vipin Shukla alias Lalkitabee jee in the forum.

The

> > point he raised is a thought provoking and imperative one. Why

do

> > remedies don't work? It is a question that many of us

(particularly

> > the professional astrologers) must have come across one time or

> > another. Now the next question is what should be the criteria,

what

> > should be the yardstick and what should be the exact modus

operandi

> > to find the problematic area in a chart? I am very sorry to say

> that

> > most of the Lal Kitab practitioners are not paying complete

> > consideration to this segment and they often diverge from the

very

> > principles of the Lal Kitab astrology. Their main thrust is to

> > recommend various remedial measures (sometime very clumsy and

> > undesired) that is why they lack the " killer punch " . This very

> > impetuosity is one of the causes for a grand failure.

> > >

> > > I would like to share some of the basic principles for

> analysing

> > a chart as per Lal Kitab as taught to me by my Gurujans and

senior

> > colleagues.

> > >

> > > The very first principle while analyzing a chart is

the " Tewe

> Ki

> > Darustee " , I am afraid that not many people (except Mr. Umesh

> Sharma

> > ji, Mr. Vipin Shukla ji and Shri Rajinder Bhatia ji and a

handful

> > others) use this rectification technique. How one can do justice

> with

> > the client and this divine subject without a proper " Darustee "

of

> the

> > chart? Good results can be expected once an

appropriate " Darustee "

> > of the chart is done. Pt. Ji advised to shake the chart 2-3

times

> to

> > achieve the clear picture.

> > >

> > > The second very important factor is to find whether the Tewa

is

> > " Baalig " or " Naa-Baaligh " , as Lal Kitab uses a separate process

for

> > both of these. Even the Varsh-Phal of a " Na-Baaligh " will be

> > different from the normal one (please refer Varsh-Phal chart of

Lal

> > Kitab Teesra Hissa (GuTka)-1941).

> > >

> > > The third point I would like to emphasize is the " Dharmi

Tewa "

> > characteristic of a chart. Because Lal Kitab has advise an

entirely

> > different approach in case of a " Dharmi Tewa " . Unlike a normal

Tewa

> > the planets in a " Dharmi-Tewa " behaves in a different way.

> > >

> > > Sh. Nirmal Bhardwaj ji raised another important factor the

> other

> > day. That point is regarding " Baap-Bete ki Mushtarka Kundli " ,

> > particularly in case of a joint family this point is worth

> > considering.

> > >

> > > The consideration of " Nasht Ho Chukey Grah " is also

necessary

> > (detail of these planets are there in the revered Lal Kitab),

> because

> > in such cases remedial measures are entirely different.

> > >

> > > An honest Lal Kitab astrologer always consider the " Pitri-

Rin "

> as

> > a major feature, because I have seen that the natives

having " Pitri-

> > Rin " in their charts seldom get any benefits whatsoever in spite

of

> > performing numerous remedial measures.

> > >

> > > After studying these deciding factors, the next step is to

> > determine the problematic area (planets). This is a very

delicate

> and

> > sensitive part of analyzing the chart as per the Lal Kitab

> astrology,

> > because sometimes what we see on the paper does not reflect the

> true

> > picture. Once the malefic planets are recognized – half of the

work

> > is done. It is utmost urgent to know the nature of the planets

in a

> > Chart. There are various method described in detail in the

revered

> > Lal Kitab i.e. " Budh Ka Bhed " for knowing the exact nature of

the

> > planet Mercury and " Shani Ka Zaati Swabhao " for Saturn and so

on.

> > >

> > > Even one is successful to find the exact problematic planet

in

> a

> > chart, the most important thing is to determine whether the

planet

> > (rather its effects) is remediable or not. I am talking

about " Grah-

> > Phal " and " Rashi-Phal " , because it is said in the very beginning

of

> > the revered Lal Kitab that " Beemari Ka Ilaaj Hai, Magar Maut Ka

> Koyi

> > Ilaaj Nahee " , it is very clear from this phrase that the " Maut "

> > (death) is " Grah-Phal " and is irremediable, whereas

the " Beemari "

> > (illness) is " Rashi-Phal " and is possibly repairable. So one

should

> > be vigilant and watchful while recommending the remedies.

> > >

> > > As far as the remedies are concerned one must not expect

any

> > miracle, although miracle does happen. The remedies are not like

> any

> > paranormal thing; it is a sort of balancing act of energies. If

the

> > remedies are suggested and execute appropriately, it invalidates

> the

> > depressing energies and the native is blessed with positive

> energies

> > around him. It helps him to think positively, to appreciate the

> > situation honestly and fight the state of affairs more bravely.

It

> is

> > not in the human capacity to prevent the rainfall, but the

divine

> > umbrella of remedies unquestionably helps him to safeguard

himself

> > from being drenched. If one can't slay a beast, he can atleast

> > elevate his periphery walls so that the creature could not

trespass

> > his premises. That is the whole logic behind the remedies.

> > >

> > > The classical Hindu methodology settling the affairs by

using

> > Saam (by Dialogue), Daam (by Price), Dand (by Force) and Bhed

(by

> > Mischief) is commonly used in the Lal Kitab remedies.

> > >

> > > Saam: Appeasing a deity by worshipping for

reducing

> or

> > increasing the bad or good effects of a planet.

> > > Daam: Offering or donating articles related to a

> > particular planet for reducing or increasing the bad or good

> effects

> > of a planet.

> > > Dand: Throwing, immersing, burying, or burning

> > articles related to a particular planet for altering the

negative

> > effects in ones favour.

> > > Bhed: Establishing, donating, offering or

keeping

> > items of a particular planet, try to remove a particular

segment

> (as

> > per Masnooyee Grah combination) of a malefic planet wherever

> > possible, establishing a common friend between two rival planets

> and

> > strengthening a planet that is believed to have the power to

level

> a

> > wayward planet (e.g. Mars for Rahu) etc. reduces the malefic

> effects

> > of a malefic planet and enhance the positive results of the

> suffering

> > one.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yograj Prabhakar

> > >

> > > lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote:

> > > Respected members & moderators & owner

> > > I was reading mails & it is really a great work which has been

> done

> > in this group.so much work has been done to motivate acadmic

> stature

> > to provide realism about lalkitab.So now an idea struck to me

also

> > that we shud go for an acadmic session now in this group.

> > > Respected learned members.All of us know that lalkitab

says

> > about JANMKUNDLI & VARSHFAL & remedial boosts.But is there any

> > criteria to measure that remedy of concerned planet will be

> > effective or not.bcoz sometimes we found bad planet as bad in

> > varshfal & janmkundli both.Remedy also struks in mind & proper

> remedy

> > as well as lalkitab says.Even analazational measurements

indicates

> > about its effectiveness.Though it doesnt works.Y like this ? Wat

> shud

> > we analyze bfor providing remedy.I disscussed some astrologers,

> some

> > of them say to see malefic saturn & budh,some say to observe

makaan

> > kundali.Some assume only the power of nature & give importance

to

> kp

> > system.But after cross disscussions all sit quit silent or

> addressed

> > me accentric.So im putting this question in this group to make a

> > healthy disscussion .My personal request- all of us shud focus

this

> > issue only at planetry analyzations as per lalkitab.Not at other

> > spiritual,philosophical or religious point of views.Only

> > > & only astrological & specially as per grammer of lallkitab.I

> > think Nirmal ji will take a positive initiative & all learned

> members

> > will co-operate with them to solve this puzzle.

> > > With regards

> > > Lalkitabee

> > > Shastri V.K.Shukla

> > > Mb.9812020001, 931-5678910

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > TV dinner still cooling?

> > > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

> > >

> >

>