Guest guest Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Respected Ashok ji; since the day u asked " why am i interested in study of astrology " i was looking for an answer. I read Osho's article on astrology he writes " JYOTISH SAMPOORANTA, EAKTA AUR ADVAIT KA VIGYAN HAI " . Regards. Kulbir. On 6/15/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh wrote: > Kulbir Ji, > Thanks a lots. > > Best of regards > Ashok Singh > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: > > > kulbir bance <kulbirbance > Re: Health, Sucess/Failure (HOW MUCH ?? ) > > Monday, June 15, 2009, 11:36 AM > > Ashok ji, page 155-157 of 1952 part 3 uploaded by Nirmal ji .... > SEHAT, BIMARI, NAFA, NUKSAAN, FATEH, SHIKASAT (these words include all > of ur querries) har do pehlu ke liye yahi asool honge. This line is > 2nd line under subhead BIMAARI on page 155 as ref. above. But my > friend this is not all inclusive. e.g. Bimari of aathraa is explained > in farmaan no. 161 1939 volume. Go in for short cuts only in desperate > situation. For study and research follow guidelines given by pt. Ji in > SARSARI NOTE Regards. Kulbir. > > On 6/15/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >> Kulbir Ji, >> Thanks for the reply. If you can write me where in lal kitab written how >> to >> evaluate >> the native range of success, that would be great. >> I am very much interested in the intensity(scale) of health, success or >> failure. >> >> Best regards >> Ashok Singh >> >> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> >> Re: Health, Sucess/Failure (HOW MUCH ?? ) >> >> Friday, June 12, 2009, 12:03 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashok ji, what u are saying is represented loosely by the term >> oxymoron. Secondly health and success may be related somehow. But >> illness is no deterent to success. Then success in which field? It has >> to be specific. Lastly the dictum that all houses and planets have to >> be considered before reaching a conclusion. This type of isolated >> study is against the basic rules of lalkitab. Regards. Kulbir. >> >> On 6/12/09, y2k_aksingh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >>> Dear Members, >>> In a horoscope priciple to see health,sucess/ failure is the same. >>> Can we find range of sucess as in Lal kitab written HNo. 10 shows >>> the intensity of illiness does it applicable for sucess also. >>> It would be really appreciated. >>> My real goal is to find HOW MUCH i.e. what would be the range of sucess. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Ashok >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 date:18-6-2009 hello kulbir ji, first of all let me thank u for discussing such a vital point in astrology or everybody life that why and for what we are doing any job as quoted by u that why we are using or doing astrology.this is a very crucial point and i will try to contribute from myside what ever i know openly and would like everybody to share their views on this topic because this is directly related to our spiritual enlightenment and getting in touch with god.this topic is never ending and i request all members to keep on writing their true experiences and findings regarding spiritual and worldly astrology and try to differentiate between the two. as kulbir ji has quoted from osho's book the words jyotish sampooranta ekta advait all these words are self explanatry but if we start explaining them then we will become short of words but i would say that if we compile all these in one word we can say these are the qualities of one and only one supreme and that is the ULTIMATE GOD. ACTUALLY WE ARE THE JEEVATMAS AND ARE PART OF THE SUPREME LORD AND DUE TO VARIOUS JANAMAS AND BIRTHS LOT OF MISCONCEPTIONS HAVE BEEN ENGRAVED IN OUR MINDS AND BECAUSE OF OUR SANCHIT KARMAS AND DUE TO PRARABDH WE ARE GETTING BIRTHS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND GETTING DETACHED FROM THE SUPREME DAY BY DAY TO FULFIL OUR WORLDLY DEEDS,WHICH ULTIMATELY LAND US NOWHERE ELSE THAN REBIRTH TO FULFIL OUR DESIRES AND WE GET USED TO THE RE BIRTH CYCLE AND CARRY ON AND FORGET OUR TRUE HOME THAT IS NONE OTHER THAN THE SUPREME FATHER GOD.BUT REMEBER ONE THING HE WHO GIVES ,GIVES,GIVES,GIVES.......... AND FORGIVES IS GOD AND WHO GETS, GETS, GETS, GETS............. AND FORGETS IS HUMAN BEING THIS IS THE NATURE OF GOD BUT THEN ALSO BECAUSE OF HIS FORGIVING NATURE BY DEFAULT THE SUPREME HAS PROGRAMMED EACH AND EVERY HUMAN MIND TO THINK OF ITSELF FOR THE ACTUAL TRUTH THAT WHY HE IS ON THIS EARTH?WHY HE IS BORN,WHAT HE HAS TO DO,IS HE HERE FOR MAKING MONEY OR IS HE HERE TO ENJOY WOMEN OR IS HE HERE TO FOOL OTHERS OR IS HE HERE TO MAKE PROPERTY? AND MANY MANY OTHER QUESTIONS, EVERY HUMAN THINKS IN HIS MIND SOME DAY SOME TIME . THOSE R LUCKY WHO THINK AT EARLY STAGE OF LIFE AND MANY THINK AT LATER AGE BUT ALL OF THEM TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE ACTUAL THING AND SOME R ABLE TO GET ANSWERS BUT THEY DONT HAVE THE TIME TO USE IT PRACTICALLY BECAUSE LIFE IS TOO SHORT. SO JYOTISH MEANS ISHVARIYA JYOTI AND EVERYBODY IS HAVING A PART OF IT BUT HOW MANY HAVE REALISED IT? SAMPOORANTA MEANS WHO HAS MASTERD THE ALL EKTA MEANS ONENESS ADWAIT AGAIN THE PERSON WHO HAS RAISED ABOVE FROM THE DVAIT BHAV THAT MEANS HE HAS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN T - HE TWO. MEANS JO DO SE EK ROOP HO JAYE . AS I SAID IT IS JUST A START I DONT KNOW WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN ,BUT THIS IS THE TOPIC WHICH IS ATTACHED WITH EVERY BODY LIFE SO KEEP ON DISCUSSING IT .PRADEEP SHARMA JI WAS TELLING ME MOST OF THE TIMES THAT I SHOULD START SUCH A TOPIC BUT I WAS WAITING REALLY FOR THE DAY, THAT THERE WILL BE A DAY WHEN SOME ONE WILL COME OUT OF SO MANY LEARNED PEOPLE AND WILL ASK FOR THE TRUE MEANING OF ASTROLOGY.YET I HAVE NOT WRITTEN MUCH BUT I WILL LOVE TO WRITE MORE BECAUSE THIS IS THE QUESTION RELATED TO OUR TRUE SELF AND IT IS MY FOREMOST DUTY TO ANSWER AND WILL TRY TO TELL WHAT I EXPERIENCED AND WILL LEARN FROM ALL MY SENIORS AND COLLEAGUES WHO R REALLY DESPERATELY AND SINCERELY FINDING LOTS AND LOTS OF THINGS BY MEANS OF ASTROLOGY TO GIVE BENEFITS TO THE SOCIETY THERE IS A GURUBANI QUOTE BHAYI PRAPAT MANUKH DEOHRIA GOBIND MILAN KI EHO TERI BARIYA AVAR KAAJ TERE KITE NAA KAAM MIL SAADH SANGAT BHAJ KEVAL NAAM MEANS: FOR WHAT U HAVE GOT BIRTH ON THIS UNIVERSE? U HAVE GOT THIS HUMAN BODY TO MEET THE SUPREME THE ULTIMATE AND THAT TOO U CAN DO WITHIN THIS HUMAN BIRTH ONLY,YOUR ALL OTHER DEEDS WONT GIVE U ANYTHING AT ALL,ONLY AND ONLY RECITATION OF THE ULTIMATE AND GETTING UNITED WITH IT IS YOUR GOAL. in the last i would say, by the help of astrology everybody should try to find the sins or the sanchit karmas by means of planets and try to get rid of their influences by jap daan homas and sewa and many other means but should do these things sincerely and with a fear in mind that i have to get out of this cycle or any bad habit which i am having because of the planets bad influence, because of sanchit karmas.so we r here to get lessons from our previous births and lead a new life in this birth with the help of astrology by trying to rectifying our bad vices and lusts for life and try to become detached from worldly deeds.sorry everybody if i had written anything wrong and ever hurt any body sentiments. Regards MS KONDALkulbir bance <kulbirbance Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:53:08 AM Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? Respected Ashok ji; since the day u asked " why am i interested in study of astrology" i was looking for an answer. I read Osho's article on astrology he writes " JYOTISH SAMPOORANTA, EAKTA AUR ADVAIT KA VIGYAN HAI". Regards. Kulbir. On 6/15/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: > Kulbir Ji, > Thanks a lots. > > Best of regards > Ashok Singh > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote: > > > kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> > Re: Health, Sucess/Failure (HOW MUCH ?? ) > > Monday, June 15, 2009, 11:36 AM > > Ashok ji, page 155-157 of 1952 part 3 uploaded by Nirmal ji .... > SEHAT, BIMARI, NAFA, NUKSAAN, FATEH, SHIKASAT (these words include all > of ur querries) har do pehlu ke liye yahi asool honge. This line is > 2nd line under subhead BIMAARI on page 155 as ref. above. But my > friend this is not all inclusive. e.g. Bimari of aathraa is explained > in farmaan no. 161 1939 volume. Go in for short cuts only in desperate > situation. For study and research follow guidelines given by pt. Ji in > SARSARI NOTE Regards. Kulbir. > > On 6/15/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >> Kulbir Ji, >> Thanks for the reply. If you can write me where in lal kitab written how >> to >> evaluate >> the native range of success, that would be great. >> I am very much interested in the intensity(scale) of health, success or >> failure. >> >> Best regards >> Ashok Singh >> >> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> >> Re: Health, Sucess/Failure (HOW MUCH ?? ) >> >> Friday, June 12, 2009, 12:03 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashok ji, what u are saying is represented loosely by the term >> oxymoron. Secondly health and success may be related somehow. But >> illness is no deterent to success. Then success in which field? It has >> to be specific. Lastly the dictum that all houses and planets have to >> be considered before reaching a conclusion. This type of isolated >> study is against the basic rules of lalkitab. Regards. Kulbir. >> >> On 6/12/09, y2k_aksingh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >>> Dear Members, >>> In a horoscope priciple to see health,sucess/ failure is the same. >>> Can we find range of sucess as in Lal kitab written HNo. 10 shows >>> the intensity of illiness does it applicable for sucess also. >>> It would be really appreciated. >>> My real goal is to find HOW MUCH i.e. what would be the range of sucess. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Ashok >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Respected Kondal Sahib, thanx for the explanation. Feelings will be hurt when illussions get broken. Why feel sorry about that. This is the real problem. Many members want to share a lot but fear that they might hurt someone's ego or clientage. Should rise above this, if we have faith. How much time do we have.? Regards. Kulbir. On 6/19/09, maneshwar singh kondal <mskondal wrote: > > date:18-6-2009 > > hello kulbir ji, > > first of > all let me thank u for discussing such a vital point in astrology or > everybody life that why and for what we are doing any job as quoted by > u that why we are using or doing astrology.this is a very crucial point > and i will try to contribute from myside what ever i know openly and > would like everybody to share their views on this topic because this is > directly related to our spiritual enlightenment and getting in touch > with god.this topic is never ending and i request all members to keep > on writing their true experiences and findings regarding spiritual and > worldly astrology and try to differentiate between the two. > > as kulbir ji has quoted from osho's book the words > > > > jyotish > > sampooranta > > ekta > > > advait > > > all these words are self explanatry > but if we start explaining them then we will become short of words but > i would say that if we compile all these in one word we can say these > are the qualities of one and only one supreme and that is the ULTIMATE > GOD. > > ACTUALLY WE ARE THE JEEVATMAS AND > ARE PART OF THE SUPREME LORD AND DUE TO VARIOUS JANAMAS AND BIRTHS LOT > OF MISCONCEPTIONS HAVE BEEN ENGRAVED IN OUR MINDS AND BECAUSE OF OUR > SANCHIT KARMAS AND DUE TO PRARABDH WE ARE GETTING BIRTHS AGAIN AND > AGAIN AND GETTING DETACHED FROM THE SUPREME DAY BY DAY TO FULFIL OUR > WORLDLY DEEDS,WHICH ULTIMATELY LAND US NOWHERE ELSE THAN REBIRTH TO > FULFIL OUR DESIRES AND WE GET USED TO THE RE BIRTH CYCLE AND CARRY ON > AND FORGET OUR TRUE HOME THAT IS NONE OTHER THAN THE SUPREME FATHER > GOD.BUT > > REMEBER ONE THING > > HE WHO GIVES ,GIVES,GIVES,GIVES.......... AND FORGIVES IS GOD > > > AND > > WHO GETS, GETS, GETS, GETS............. AND FORGETS IS HUMAN BEING > > > THIS IS THE NATURE OF GOD > > BUT THEN ALSO BECAUSE OF HIS > FORGIVING NATURE BY DEFAULT THE SUPREME HAS PROGRAMMED EACH AND EVERY > HUMAN MIND TO THINK OF ITSELF FOR THE ACTUAL TRUTH THAT WHY HE IS ON > THIS EARTH?WHY HE IS BORN,WHAT HE HAS TO DO,IS HE HERE FOR MAKING MONEY > OR IS HE HERE TO ENJOY WOMEN OR IS HE HERE TO FOOL OTHERS OR IS HE HERE > TO MAKE PROPERTY? > AND MANY MANY OTHER QUESTIONS, EVERY HUMAN THINKS IN HIS MIND SOME DAY SOME > TIME . > > THOSE R LUCKY WHO THINK AT EARLY > STAGE OF LIFE AND MANY THINK AT LATER AGE BUT ALL OF THEM TRY TO > UNDERSTAND THE ACTUAL THING AND SOME R ABLE TO GET ANSWERS BUT THEY > DONT HAVE THE TIME TO USE IT PRACTICALLY BECAUSE LIFE IS TOO SHORT. > > > SO JYOTISH MEANS ISHVARIYA JYOTI AND EVERYBODY IS HAVING A PART > OF IT BUT HOW MANY HAVE REALISED IT? > > SAMPOORANTA MEANS WHO HAS MASTERD THE ALL > > EKTA MEANS ONENESS > > ADWAIT AGAIN THE > PERSON WHO HAS RAISED ABOVE FROM THE DVAIT BHAV THAT MEANS HE HAS NO > DIFFERENCE BETWEEN > T > - HE TWO. MEANS JO DO SE EK ROOP HO JAYE . > > > AS I SAID IT IS JUST A START I DONT > KNOW WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN ,BUT THIS IS THE TOPIC WHICH IS ATTACHED WITH > EVERY BODY LIFE SO KEEP ON DISCUSSING IT .PRADEEP SHARMA JI WAS TELLING > ME MOST OF THE TIMES THAT I SHOULD START SUCH A TOPIC BUT I WAS WAITING > REALLY FOR THE DAY, THAT THERE WILL BE A DAY WHEN SOME ONE WILL COME > OUT OF SO MANY LEARNED PEOPLE AND WILL ASK FOR THE TRUE MEANING OF > ASTROLOGY.YET I HAVE NOT WRITTEN MUCH BUT I WILL LOVE TO WRITE MORE > BECAUSE THIS IS THE QUESTION RELATED TO OUR TRUE SELF AND IT IS MY > FOREMOST DUTY TO ANSWER AND WILL TRY TO TELL WHAT I EXPERIENCED AND > WILL LEARN FROM ALL MY SENIORS AND COLLEAGUES WHO R REALLY DESPERATELY > AND SINCERELY FINDING LOTS AND LOTS OF THINGS BY MEANS OF ASTROLOGY TO > GIVE BENEFITS TO THE SOCIETY > > > THERE IS A GURUBANI QUOTE BHAYI PRAPAT MANUKH DEOHRIA GOBIND MILAN KI > EHO TERI BARIYA > AVAR KAAJ TERE KITE > NAA KAAM MIL SAADH SANGAT BHAJ KEVAL NAAM > > > MEANS: FOR WHAT U HAVE GOT BIRTH ON > THIS UNIVERSE? U HAVE GOT THIS HUMAN BODY TO MEET THE SUPREME THE > ULTIMATE AND THAT TOO U CAN DO WITHIN THIS HUMAN BIRTH ONLY,YOUR ALL > OTHER DEEDS WONT GIVE U ANYTHING AT ALL,ONLY AND ONLY RECITATION OF THE > ULTIMATE AND GETTING UNITED WITH IT IS YOUR GOAL. > > > > in the last i would say, by the help > of astrology everybody should try to find the sins or the sanchit > karmas by means of planets and try to get rid of their influences by > jap daan homas and sewa and many other means but should do these things > sincerely and with a fear in mind that i have to get out of this cycle > or any bad habit which i am having because of the planets bad > influence, because of sanchit karmas.so we r here to get lessons from > our previous births and lead a new life in this birth with the help of > astrology by trying to rectifying our bad vices and lusts for life and > try to become detached from worldly deeds.sorry everybody if i had > written anything wrong and ever hurt any body sentiments. > > > Regards > > MS KONDAL > > > > ________________________________ > kulbir bance <kulbirbance > > Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:53:08 AM > Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? > > > > > > Respected Ashok ji; since the day u asked " why am i interested in > study of astrology " i was looking for an answer. I read Osho's article > on astrology he writes " JYOTISH SAMPOORANTA, EAKTA AUR ADVAIT KA > VIGYAN HAI " . Regards. Kulbir. > > On 6/15/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >> Kulbir Ji, >> Thanks a lots. >> >> Best of regards >> Ashok Singh >> >> --- On Mon, 6/15/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> >> Re: Health, Sucess/Failure (HOW MUCH ?? ) >> >> Monday, June 15, 2009, 11:36 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ashok ji, page 155-157 of 1952 part 3 uploaded by Nirmal ji .... >> SEHAT, BIMARI, NAFA, NUKSAAN, FATEH, SHIKASAT (these words include all >> of ur querries) har do pehlu ke liye yahi asool honge. This line is >> 2nd line under subhead BIMAARI on page 155 as ref. above. But my >> friend this is not all inclusive. e.g. Bimari of aathraa is explained >> in farmaan no. 161 1939 volume. Go in for short cuts only in desperate >> situation. For study and research follow guidelines given by pt. Ji in >> SARSARI NOTE Regards. Kulbir. >> >> On 6/15/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >>> Kulbir Ji, >>> Thanks for the reply. If you can write me where in lal kitab written how >>> to >>> evaluate >>> the native range of success, that would be great. >>> I am very much interested in the intensity(scale) of health, success or >>> failure. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Ashok Singh >>> >>> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> >>> Re: Health, Sucess/Failure (HOW MUCH ?? ) >>> >>> Friday, June 12, 2009, 12:03 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ashok ji, what u are saying is represented loosely by the term >>> oxymoron. Secondly health and success may be related somehow. But >>> illness is no deterent to success. Then success in which field? It has >>> to be specific. Lastly the dictum that all houses and planets have to >>> be considered before reaching a conclusion. This type of isolated >>> study is against the basic rules of lalkitab. Regards. Kulbir. >>> >>> On 6/12/09, y2k_aksingh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote: >>>> Dear Members, >>>> In a horoscope priciple to see health,sucess/ failure is the same. >>>> Can we find range of sucess as in Lal kitab written HNo. 10 shows >>>> the intensity of illiness does it applicable for sucess also. >>>> It would be really appreciated. >>>> My real goal is to find HOW MUCH i.e. what would be the range of sucess. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Ashok >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from my mobile device >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj jiIt is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is basically spiritual in character. Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12 MAIN 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse.With RegardsPt.LalkitabeeV.Shukla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Res. Vipin Jee Please do not try to put words in my mouth, kindly read my message once again, I just said that Pundit ji has instructed us to read this book again and again like a Novel when one of our senior member mentioned that he was advised to read this book as a Spiritual book. At no point I tried to prove this divine scripture as a Novel itself. Sincerely Yograj Prabhakar , lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is basically spiritual in character. > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. > With Regards > Pt.Lalkitabee > V.Shukla > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Dear Mr. V. Shukla,Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the different astrological texts of Hindu astrology.The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author of that text. Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it to be hardly more than some 500 years old.The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it.Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts over a period of around 100 years. It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many textual similarities between the two works.I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago.I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become to "religious" about these things. Best wishes,Finn Wandahl , lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:>> Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji> It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.> The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is basically spiritual in character.> Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.> Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa.> Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12 MAIN 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse.> With Regards> Pt.Lalkitabee> V.Shukla> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Res Mr. Wandahl, Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, the Universe is unreal, Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their verdicts. With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl wrote: > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author > of that text. > > Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it. > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > over a period of around 100 years. > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > textual similarities between the two works. > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become > to " religious " about these things. > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos > which is basically spiritual in character. > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai > aapse. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Res Mr. Wandahl, Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, the Universe is unreal, Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their verdicts. With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl wrote: > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author > of that text. > > Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it. > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > over a period of around 100 years. > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > textual similarities between the two works. > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become > to " religious " about these things. > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos > which is basically spiritual in character. > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai > aapse. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Dear Shukla Ji### 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA### What about " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " these words also exist in Lalkitab.I also heard that as per our shastras there is permanent reserved seat in Narak for astrologers. Is it right? RegardsYogeshOn Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:53 AM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj jiIt is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is basically spiritual in character. Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. With RegardsPt.LalkitabeeV.Shukla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Dear Finn Ji, Shukla Ji, Prabhakar Ji , Kulbir Ji, and members,To treat a subject,book as spiritual or not, is an individual and personal view. Let us not indulge ourselves in such a ticklish issue. It is a matter of faith. Let us leave this issue from now as it is. and discuss other important matters. RegardsNirmalOn Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 9:57 PM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Res Mr. Wandahl, Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, the Universe is unreal, Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their verdicts. With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl wrote: > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author > of that text. > > Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it. > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > over a period of around 100 years. > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > textual similarities between the two works. > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become > to " religious " about these things. > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos > which is basically spiritual in character. > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai > aapse. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla, This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present discussion, for obvious reasons. I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic will be futile, leading to nowhere. However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely, and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30 years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab. Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this? Best wishes, Finn Wandahl , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee wrote: > > Res Mr. Wandahl, > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, > the Universe is unreal, > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their verdicts. > With Regards > Pt.Lalkitabee > V.Shukla > , " Finn Wandahl " finn.wandahl@ wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author > > of that text. > > > > Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it. > > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > > over a period of around 100 years. > > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > > textual similarities between the two works. > > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become > > to " religious " about these things. > > > > Best wishes, > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai > > aapse. > > > With Regards > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Yogesh ji, these lines are from shri jupji sahib " asankh moorakh andhghor, asankh chor haramkhor. Asankh amal kar jae jor asankh gal vad hataya kamaye asankh kudeaar koode firahe. Asankh malech mal bhakh khae. Asankh nindak sir kare bhar. " shayad aapko jawab mil gaya hoga. Regards. Kulbir. On 7/6/09, yogesh jaitely <yogesh.jaitely wrote: > Dear Shukla Ji > ### 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA### > What about > " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " these words also exist in > Lalkitab. > I also heard that as per our shastras there is permanent reserved seat in > Narak for astrologers. Is it right? > Regards > Yogesh > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:53 AM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: > >> >> >> Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji >> It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not >> only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a >> astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 >> SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW >> BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA >> ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual >> touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the >> system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to >> explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. >> The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The >> spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects >> in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be >> announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has >> spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough >> knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve >> CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all >> of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process >> materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian >> vedic >> astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is >> basically spiritual in character. >> Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I >> want >> to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI >> PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. >> PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by >> Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a >> proof >> to proove this, as spiritual. >> Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. >> Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa >> hai >> ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja >> saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, >> jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono >> bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam >> taur >> par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi >> tarah >> se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. >> Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7 >> GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske >> spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. >> With Regards >> Pt.Lalkitabee >> V.Shukla >> >> >> >> > -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Shukla ji, I don't know you and i don't care either. All i want to say is attacking someone on basis of his/her background, culture, religion, country etc is absolutely ridiculous thing to do. Pt. ji hasn't mentioned anywhere about jaat-paat or any restrictions on a foreigner to read lal kitab. In my eyes Mr. Wandahl is more indian than yourself. And please care to explain who gave you the title of " pandit lal kitabee " ?? Mind you i don't know anyone in this group and i am not taking any personal enemity or settling personal scores, all i want is everyone to be treated fairly. If we can't even do that then please STOP LECTURING ABOUT SPIRITUALITY. Jitin Syal , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee wrote: > > Res Mr. Wandahl, > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, > the Universe is unreal, > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their verdicts. > With Regards > Pt.Lalkitabee > V.Shukla > , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author > > of that text. > > > > Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it. > > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > > over a period of around 100 years. > > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > > textual similarities between the two works. > > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become > > to " religious " about these things. > > > > Best wishes, > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> wrote: > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai > > aapse. > > > With Regards > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Res Mr.Wandahl Yes u r absolutly right -we can at least agree to disagree. In my mail I tried to clarify that if we will go only for written evidences then nobody will believe about Lalkitab as a creation of Pt.Roop Chand Ji,bcoz Lalkitab was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal, nowhere mentioned name of Pt.Roop Chand Ji. But it is not true, It was a regard by Pt. Roopchand Ji for Sh. Girdhari Lal Ji. That is why Pt.Roopchand JI didnt mentioned himself as auther of this book. This truth was unveiled by some predecessors of that age of society & all of us bow our head to this truth & agree with it, even most of them unveiled another truth that this knowledge of Lalkitab was spoken by some super divine powers to Pt.Roop Chand Ji. This truth or fact also accepted by each devotee of Lalkitab including me also. Pt.Roopchand ji left whole credit for Pt.Girdhari Lal ji as honour & finally the Lalkitab published at the name of Girdhari Lal Ji. I mean to explain that evidences of original written materials of Lalkitab do not certify Pt. Roopchand ji as real author of Lalkitab, but it is universal truth that only Pt. Roopchand Ji were real author & this truth is beleivable bcoz our predecessors were live witness about this fact & some of those predecessors are today also with us , like Sh. Rajinder Bhatia ji and some more. Same thoughts are in the case of vedas & Astro shastra of mine.So i ended my previous mail with the words of sum up this issue without any discussion.I think - now im succeeded to explain my views. Best wishes of Guru Purnima With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl wrote: > > Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla, > > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this > particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the > members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. > > What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal > findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar > from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present > discussion, for obvious reasons. > > I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking > your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and > respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic > will be futile, leading to nowhere. > > However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely, > and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30 > years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually > made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab. > > Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a > little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt > that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of > Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this? > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > > > , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee@> > wrote: > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl, > > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the > history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the > sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar > only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya > Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers > ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, > PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of > this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 > years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get > references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that > book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH > BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, > > the Universe is unreal, > > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u > might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) > > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us > nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this > country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy > please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our > sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We > cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even > they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. > > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per > ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile > with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji > & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one > of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by > some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also > established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology > shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that > no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their > verdicts. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > , " Finn Wandahl " finn.wandahl@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > > > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, > and > > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > > > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some > Vedic > > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the > author > > > of that text. > > > > > > Even though many people believe a text like > Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra > > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > indicate it > > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > > > > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great > sanskrit-scholar > > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he > has > > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, > there > > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he > did > > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all > the > > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned > it. > > > > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of > disconnected > > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and > written > > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > > > over a period of around 100 years. > > > > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been > changed > > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a > conversation > > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > > > textual similarities between the two works. > > > > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be > full > > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is > was > > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by > the > > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > > > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I > however > > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not > become > > > to " religious " about these things. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the > spirituality > > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab > is > > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE > > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH > LIYAA, > > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS > ,needn't to > > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as > wel > > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that > spiritual > > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to > achieve > > > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So > all > > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to > study > > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian > ethos > > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini > astrology.I > > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, > It is > > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de > rahey > > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye > bola > > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi > nahi > > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko > liya > > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis > kitab > > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya > hai, > > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik > pehloo > > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 > MAIN > > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa > hogaa > > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz > hai > > > aapse. > > > > With Regards > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Res Mr. Jaitly Janm vaqt se pehley mata ke garbh main jo dukh pratyek insaan bhogtaa hai use bhi shaastron main narak hee kahaa gayaa hai , to fir sirf astrologers hee nahi har insaan narak bhogtaa hai.Baaki to agley janam main hee bataa sakoongaa agar yaad reh gaya. About the words as " behaya laundi, ullu ka pattha, etc. in lalkitab, I want to say that Kulbir Ji has better replied, but for ur further knowledge the motive of these words is not to abuse anyone, its motive was to make a good understanding about particular planet & these words do not harm the fruitfulness of lalkitab for human being & its spirituality. With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla , yogesh jaitely <yogesh.jaitely wrote: > > Dear Shukla Ji > ### 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA### > What about > " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " these words also exist in > Lalkitab. > I also heard that as per our shastras there is permanent reserved seat in > Narak for astrologers. Is it right? > Regards > Yogesh > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:53 AM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: > > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not > > only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a > > astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 > > SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW > > BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA > > ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual > > touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the > > system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The > > spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects > > in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be > > announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has > > spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough > > knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process > > materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic > > astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is > > basically spiritual in character. > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want > > to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI > > PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. > > PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by > > Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof > > to proove this, as spiritual. > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. > > Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai > > ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja > > saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, > > jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono > > bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur > > par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah > > se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7 > > GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske > > spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Dear Finn,I agree with you as far as the BPHS is concerned. BPHS is a compilation of four different system of astrology. Each system is contradictory to other. On the one system at a particular position a planet is said to be dead or infant on the other system same planet is called the Strongest planet. How the same writer give two different version in same book. The nature and effects of aspects is also different in these systems I agree that Maharishi had made an effort to compile the different system of astrology prevailing at the that time to make it in documented shape. This may also haapen that the present shape of BPHS is the leftover pages of a Big Shastra which may had destroyed during invasion and Mahasrishi  collected it and  tried to give it a shape. Yours , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl wrote:>> Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla,> > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this> particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the> members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. >> What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal> findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar> from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present > discussion, for obvious reasons.>> I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking> your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and> respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic > will be futile, leading to nowhere.>> However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely,> and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30> years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually > made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab.>> Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a> little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt > that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of> Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this?>> Best wishes,> Finn Wandahl>>>> , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee@> > wrote:> >> > Res Mr. Wandahl,> > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the> history of astro-shastra,but the person like me do not depends on the> sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar > only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya> Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers> ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, > PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of> this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500> years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get > references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that> book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH> BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, > > the Universe is unreal,> > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u> might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old)> > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us > nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this> country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy> please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our > sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We> cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even> they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas.> > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per > ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile> with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji> & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one > of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by> some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also> established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology > shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that> no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their > verdicts.> > With Regards> > Pt.Lalkitabee> > V.Shukla> > , " Finn Wandahl " finn.wandahl@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla,> > >> > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology,> and> > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of> > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the> > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > >> > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some> Vedic> > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the> author> > > of that text. > > >> > > Even though many people believe a text like> Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra> > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the> > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > indicate it> > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old.> > >> > > The Persian astronomer/astrologer Al Biruni was a great> sanskrit-scholar> > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he > has> > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time,> there> > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he> did> > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all > the> > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned> it.> > >> > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of> disconnected > > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and> written> > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts> > > over a period of around 100 years. > > >> > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of> > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been> changed> > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a > conversation> > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many> > > textual similarities between the two works.> > >> > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be > full> > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of> > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is> was> > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by > the> > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago.> > >> > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu> > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I > however> > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not> become> > > to " religious " about these things.> > >> > > Best wishes, > > > Finn Wandahl> > >> > >> > >> > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji> > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the> spirituality> > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab > is> > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9> > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN> TREASURE> > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH > LIYAA,> > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from> > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory> > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS > ,needn't to> > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.> > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs> > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as > wel> > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that> spiritual> > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian> > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to> achieve> > > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So> all> > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to> study> > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian> ethos> > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini> astrology.I> > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR,> > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such> > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture,> It is> > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de> rahey> > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye> bola> > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi > nahi> > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko> liya> > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis> kitab> > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya > hai,> > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik> pehloo> > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa.> > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 > MAIN> > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa> hogaa> > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz> hai> > > aapse. > > > > With Regards> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee> > > > V.Shukla> > > >> > >> >>-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS) Consultant (Vedic Astrology) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Dear YogeshJi,\\\ " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " \\\May you clarify about the motive of highlighting the above lines of lalkitab. whether you want to say that Lalkitab is a Footpath Selling Book. Yours-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology) , yogesh jaitely <yogesh.jaitely wrote: >> Dear Shukla Ji> ### 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN> TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA,> JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA### > What about> " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " these words also exist in> Lalkitab.> I also heard that as per our shastras there is permanent reserved seat in> Narak for astrologers. Is it right? > Regards> Yogesh> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:53 AM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:> > >> >> > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji> > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not > > only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a> > astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12> > SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW > > BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA> > ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual> > touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the > > system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to> > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.> > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The > > spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects> > in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be> > announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has > > spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough> > knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve> > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process> > materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic> > astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is > > basically spiritual in character.> > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want> > to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI > > PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr.> > PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by> > Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof > > to proove this, as spiritual.> > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain.> > Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai > > ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja> > saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai,> > jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono > > bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur> > par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah> > se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7> > GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske> > spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. > > With Regards> > Pt.Lalkitabee> > V.Shukla> >> >> >  > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Dear Shivdev ji,Ramayan is a religious epic. Presence of Raavan and his deeds/his word he said in Ramayana donot make this book un-religious. Similarly Kamasutra is a non relegious book. if any phrase using the name of a Dod exist in it does not maake that book un-religious. This is my motive of writing these line. Mr. Shukla quote the lines''9 NIDHI & 12,SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA ''Just to prove that this book is spiritual. Therefore I quote theselines of Lalkitab to show him that these words donot make any difference in the statute of this book. RegardsYogeshOn Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Shivdev Kalsi <shivdev.kalsi wrote: Dear YogeshJi,\\\ " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " \\\May you clarify about the motive of highlighting the above lines of lalkitab. whether you want to say that Lalkitab is a Footpath Selling Book. Yours-- Dr. Shiv Dev Kalsi,Jyotish Rishi (AIFAS)Consultant (Vedic Astrology) , yogesh jaitely <yogesh.jaitely wrote: >> Dear Shukla Ji> ### 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN> TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA### > What about> " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " these words also exist in> Lalkitab.> I also heard that as per our shastras there is permanent reserved seat in> Narak for astrologers. Is it right? > Regards> Yogesh> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:53 AM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote:> > >> >> > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not > > only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a> > astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12> > SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW > > BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA> > ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual> > touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the > > system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to> > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.> > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The > > spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects> > in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be> > announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has > > spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough> > knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve> > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process> > materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic> > astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is > > basically spiritual in character.> > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want> > to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI > > PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr.> > PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by> > Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof > > to proove this, as spiritual.> > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain.> > Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai > > ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja> > saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai,> > jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono > > bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur> > par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah> > se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7> > GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske> > spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. > > With Regards> > Pt.Lalkitabee> > V.Shukla> >> >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Thanks Shukla Ji,With your explanation I can now understand that why " 9 Nidhi 12 Sidhi....... written' in lalkitab.\\\its motive was to make a good understanding \\ of the subjectRegardsYogesh On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:13 PM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: Res Mr. Jaitly Janm vaqt se pehley mata ke garbh main jo dukh pratyek insaan bhogtaa hai use bhi shaastron main narak hee kahaa gayaa hai , to fir sirf astrologers hee nahi har insaan narak bhogtaa hai.Baaki to agley janam main hee bataa sakoongaa agar yaad reh gaya. About the words as " behaya laundi, ullu ka pattha, etc. in lalkitab, I want to say that Kulbir Ji has better replied, but for ur further knowledge the motive of these words is not to abuse anyone, its motive was to make a good understanding about particular planet & these words do not harm the fruitfulness of lalkitab for human being & its spirituality. With Regards Pt.Lalkitabee V.Shukla , yogesh jaitely <yogesh.jaitely wrote: > > Dear Shukla Ji > ### 9 NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA### > What about > " ullu kaa pattha, Haraamzaadi Behaya Laundi " these words also exist in > Lalkitab. > I also heard that as per our shastras there is permanent reserved seat in > Narak for astrologers. Is it right? > Regards > Yogesh > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:53 AM, lalkitabee <lalkitabee wrote: > > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality not > > only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is also a > > astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 NIDHI & 12 > > SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF NEW > > BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, JHAGDAA > > ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from spiritual > > touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory part of the > > system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs Indian.The > > spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel as it reflects > > in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual words can be > > announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian culture has > > spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each step.The thorough > > knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > > CHATURVARG-PHAL-PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this process > > materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study Indian vedic > > astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos which is > > basically spiritual in character. > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I want > > to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, MAHARISHI > > PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor Parashar, Dr. > > PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such originated by > > Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is itself is a proof > > to proove this, as spiritual. > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey hain. > > Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola gayaa hai > > ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi kahaa ja > > saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya gayaa hai, > > jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab main dono > > bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, jise aam taur > > par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo ko kisi bhi tarah > > se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 MAIN 7 > > GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa iske > > spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai aapse. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Dear Friends, Every person is free to hold his own opinion. Tolerance to all views are the prime teaching since ancient vadic period in India. Astrology is one of the Limb of Vadas'( out of six limbs).This clearly shows that sages of ancient Vadic era simultaneously nourished and developed the science of Astrology. Puranic literature was always very vast (even now half a million shlokas of various Puranas' are available in print).This is a fact that they had undergone in some additions as well some vital parts were extinguished with time. In Gupta period - 2nd century AD to about 7th century AD - a big effort was made to revive this litrature.On account of these Herculean efforts a vast majority of literature is at the door steps of present generation. After the era of Mahabharata , a new effort was made to introduce revolutionary changes in Mahurta and predictive ( jataka) astrology : !.Mahurta : The Panchang was introduced - The persons who are not well versed in Indian astrology only depend on Jatak Shastra .-They needed precise longitudes of planets and sunrise and sun set to know the panchaga of the moment.. They have taken following steps: a. they used Char -khand and Belantar to know Sunrise, AND introduced week days b.They adopted zodiac in 27 Nakshatras' based on Moon which was developed in ancient vadic era -A unique development in India alone. c. This basis of division of zodiac paved the way of 12 zodiac sidereal signs . The initial point of Nakshatra Acvini (which was opposite to star Chita - the yogtata of Nakshata Chitra) was defined as initial point of sidereal zodiac.( As every savant of astrology is well aware that tropical signs were named after sidereal sign , though later signs have no permanent connection with stars and constellations). d. Panchang is an unique tool of Mahurta astrology and is in use in India only. e. Various types of chakras based on Nakshatras were used to now auspicious time or quality of time on any specific moment. 2,Jatak Literate- A unique system of constructing Birth Horoscope was devolved bases on Planets ( even now in west , they are learning the use of nodes) ,27 Nakshatras' , 12 Sidereal signs , and 12 bhavas. They have devolved Dasa system based on NAKSHATRAS' ,SIGNS, BHAVAS AND PLANETS. a,BPHS is an monumental document which introduces all these systems and also Varga charts, These charts paved the way to Nadi shastra where each sign is divided in 150 parts. b. BPHS in chapter 3 , had clearly stated that effects of planets in Nakshatras' (and by implication in bhavas ) may be referred in vast general literature available in that era. BPHS promised to amplify the results on account of interaction among sidereal signs and planets. c . Lalkitab is the part of that vast literature which was refereed to in BPHS ( A DOCUMENT AUTHORED IN 1800 BC). I do not know how that knowledge came to us through sage Pt. Roopchand ji. He has revealed this unique document to us but never claimed its authorship. He had passed these books to his disciples free of cost . d. Bhattotpal was fully aware about the existence of BPHS.but could not lay hand on it . It was the common habit in India not to reveal such unique documents and consider it as family secret. Why go too far , Mr. Bhatt is not publishing vast Bhirgu literature of ancient origin available with him. One needs the stature of our pt.Rupchand ji to reveal such unique Lalkitab. Regards, G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA lalkitabee <lalkitabee Sent: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 4:49:20 PM Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? Res Mr.WandahlYes u r absolutly right -we can at least agree to disagree.In my mail I tried to clarify that if we will go only for written evidences then nobody will believe about Lalkitab as a creation of Pt.Roop Chand Ji,bcoz Lalkitab was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal, nowhere mentioned name of Pt.Roop Chand Ji. But it is not true, It was a regard by Pt. Roopchand Ji for Sh. Girdhari Lal Ji. That is why Pt.Roopchand JI didnt mentioned himself as auther of this book.This truth was unveiled by some predecessors of that age of society & all of us bow our head to this truth & agree with it, even most of them unveiled another truth that this knowledge of Lalkitab was spoken by some super divine powers to Pt.Roop Chand Ji. This truth or fact also accepted by each devotee of Lalkitab including me also. Pt.Roopchand ji left whole credit for Pt.Girdhari Lal ji as honour & finally the Lalkitab published at the name of Girdhari Lal Ji.I mean to explain that evidences of original written materials of Lalkitab do not certify Pt. Roopchand ji as real author of Lalkitab, but it is universal truth that only Pt. Roopchand Ji were real author & this truth is beleivable bcoz our predecessors were live witness about this fact & some of those predecessors are today also with us , like Sh. Rajinder Bhatia ji and some more. Same thoughts are in the case of vedas & Astro shastra of mine.So i ended my previous mail with the words of sum up this issue without any discussion.I think - now im succeeded to explain my views.Best wishes of Guru PurnimaWith RegardsPt.LalkitabeeV.Shukla, "Finn Wandahl" <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla,> > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this> particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the> members of this group has been able to see both our arguments.> > What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal> findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar> from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present> discussion, for obvious reasons.> > I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking> your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and> respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic> will be futile, leading to nowhere.> > However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely,> and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30> years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually> made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab.> > Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a> little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt> that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of> Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this?> > Best wishes,> Finn Wandahl> > > > , "lalkitabee" <lalkitabee@ >> wrote:> >> > Res Mr. Wandahl,> > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the> history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the> sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar> only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya> Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers> ,so the book named "BHARTIYA JYOTISH" written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI,> PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of> this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500> years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get> references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that> book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH> BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website "Brahman is real,> > the Universe is unreal,> > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u> might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old)> > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us> nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this> country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy> please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our> sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We> cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even> they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas.> > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per> ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile> with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji> & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one> of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by> some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also> established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology> shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that> no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their> verdicts.> > With Regards> > Pt..Lalkitabee> > V.Shukla> > , "Finn Wandahl" finn.wandahl@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla,> > >> > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology,> and> > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between> > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of> > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the> > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology.> > >> > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some> Vedic> > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the> author> > > of that text.> > >> > > Even though many people believe a text like> Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra> > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the> > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > indicate it> > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old.> > >> > > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great> sanskrit-scholar> > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he> has> > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time,> there> > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he> did> > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all> the> > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned> it.> > >> > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of> disconnected> > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and> written> > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts> > > over a period of around 100 years.> > >> > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of> > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been> changed> > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a> conversation> > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many> > > textual similarities between the two works.> > >> > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be> full> > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of> > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is> was> > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by> the> > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago.> > >> > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu> > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I> however> > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not> become> > > to "religious" about these things.> > >> > > Best wishes,> > > Finn Wandahl> > >> > >> > >> > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ >> wrote:> > > >> > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji> > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the> spirituality> > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab> is> > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9> > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN> TREASURE> > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH> LIYAA,> > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from> > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory> > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS> ,needn't to> > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA..> > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs> > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as> wel> > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that> spiritual> > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian> > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each> > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to> achieve> > > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So> all> > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this> > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to> study> > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian> ethos> > > which is basically spiritual in character.> > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini> astrology.I> > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR,> > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor> > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such> > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture,> It is> > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.> > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de> rahey> > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye> bola> > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi> nahi> > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko> liya> > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis> kitab> > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya> hai,> > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik> pehloo> > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa.> > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12> MAIN> > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa> hogaa> > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz> hai> > > aapse..> > > > With Regards> > > > Pt.Lalkitabee> > > > V.Shukla> > > >> > >> >> Looking for local information? Find it on Local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Respected Goel ji,"Lalkitab is the part of that vast literature which was refereed to in BPHS ( A DOCUMENT AUTHORED IN 1800 > BC). I do not know how that knowledge came to us through sage Pt. Roopchand ji. He has revealed this unique document to us but never claimed its authorship. He had passed these books to his disciples > free of cost ."I request you to please clarify the above, the message i am getting is, that LK was there long before Pt. ji was born. If you have more information/knowledge on this, then kindly share with us.SincerelyJitin syal , Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937 wrote:>> Dear Friends,> Every person is free to hold his own opinion. Tolerance to all > views are the prime teaching since ancient vadic period in India.> > Astrology is one of the Limb of Vadas'( out of six limbs).This> clearly shows that sages of ancient Vadic era simultaneously > nourished and developed the science of Astrology.> Puranic literature was always very vast (even now half a million > shlokas of various Puranas' are available in print).This is a fact > that they had undergone in some additions as well some vital> parts were extinguished with time.> In Gupta period - 2nd century AD to about 7th century AD - a big effort was> made to revive this litrature.On account of these Herculean efforts a vast majority> of literature is at the door steps of present generation.> After the era of Mahabharata , a new effort was made to introduce revolutionary changes in> Mahurta and predictive ( jataka) astrology :> > !.Mahurta :> The Panchang was introduced - The persons who are not well versed in Indian astrology> only depend on Jatak Shastra .-They needed precise longitudes of planets and sunrise and sun set> to know the panchaga of the moment..> They have taken following steps:> a. they used Char -khand and Belantar to know Sunrise, AND introduced week days> b.They adopted zodiac in 27 Nakshatras' based on Moon which was developed in ancient vadic era -A unique development in India alone.> c. This basis of division of zodiac paved the way of 12 zodiac sidereal signs . The initial point of > Nakshatra Acvini (which was opposite to star Chita - the yogtata of Nakshata Chitra) was defined> as initial point of sidereal zodiac.( As every savant of astrology is well aware that tropical signs were> named after sidereal sign , though later signs have no permanent connection with stars and constellations).> d. Panchang is an unique tool of Mahurta astrology and is in use in India only.> e. Various types of chakras based on Nakshatras were used to now auspicious time or quality of time on any specific moment.> > 2,Jatak Literate- A unique system of constructing Birth Horoscope was devolved bases on Planets> ( even now in west , they are learning the use of nodes) ,27 Nakshatras' , 12 Sidereal signs , and 12 bhavas.> They have devolved Dasa system based on NAKSHATRAS' ,SIGNS, BHAVAS AND PLANETS. > a,BPHS is an monumental document which introduces all these systems and also Varga charts,> These charts paved the way to Nadi shastra where each sign is divided in 150 parts.> b. BPHS in chapter 3 , had clearly stated that effects of planets in Nakshatras' (and by implication in > bhavas ) may be referred in vast general literature available in that era. BPHS promised to amplify the results on account of interaction among sidereal signs and planets.> c . Lalkitab is the part of that vast literature which was refereed to in BPHS ( A DOCUMENT AUTHORED IN 1800 > BC). I do not know how that knowledge came to us through sage Pt. Roopchand ji. He has revealed this unique document to us but never claimed its authorship. He had passed these books to his disciples > free of cost .> d. Bhattotpal was fully aware about the existence of BPHS.but could not lay hand on it . It was the common habit in India not to reveal such unique documents and consider it as family secret. Why go too far , Mr. Bhatt> is not publishing vast Bhirgu literature of ancient origin available with him. One needs the stature of our pt.Rupchand ji to reveal such unique Lalkitab.> Regards,> > G.K.GOEL> Ph: 09350311433> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR> NEW DELHI-110 076> INDIA > > > > > ________________________________> lalkitabee lalkitabee > Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 4:49:20 PM> Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology?> > > > > > Res Mr.Wandahl> Yes u r absolutly right -we can at least agree to disagree.> In my mail I tried to clarify that if we will go only for written evidences then nobody will believe about Lalkitab as a creation of Pt.Roop Chand Ji,bcoz Lalkitab was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal, nowhere mentioned name of Pt.Roop Chand Ji. But it is not true, It was a regard by Pt. Roopchand Ji for Sh. Girdhari Lal Ji. That is why Pt.Roopchand JI didnt mentioned himself as auther of this book.> This truth was unveiled by some predecessors of that age of society & all of us bow our head to this truth & agree with it, even most of them unveiled another truth that this knowledge of Lalkitab was spoken by some super divine powers to Pt.Roop Chand Ji. This truth or fact also accepted by each devotee of Lalkitab including me also. Pt.Roopchand ji left whole credit for Pt.Girdhari Lal ji as honour & finally the Lalkitab published at the name of Girdhari Lal Ji.> I mean to explain that evidences of original written materials of Lalkitab do not certify Pt. Roopchand ji as real author of Lalkitab, but it is universal truth that only Pt. Roopchand Ji were real author & this truth is beleivable bcoz our predecessors were live witness about this fact & some of those predecessors are today also with us , like Sh. Rajinder Bhatia ji and some more. Same thoughts are in the case of vedas & Astro shastra of mine.So i ended my previous mail with the words of sum up this issue without any discussion.I think - now im succeeded to explain my views.> Best wishes of Guru Purnima> With Regards> Pt.Lalkitabee> V.Shukla> > , "Finn Wandahl" <finn.wandahl@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla,> > > > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this> > particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the> > members of this group has been able to see both our arguments.> > > > What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal> > findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar> > from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present> > discussion, for obvious reasons.> > > > I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking> > your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and> > respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic> > will be futile, leading to nowhere.> > > > However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely,> > and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30> > years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually> > made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab.> > > > Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a> > little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt> > that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of> > Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this?> > > > Best wishes,> > Finn Wandahl> > > > > > > > , "lalkitabee" <lalkitabee@ >> > wrote:> > >> > > Res Mr. Wandahl,> > > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the> > history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the> > sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar> > only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya> > Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers> > ,so the book named "BHARTIYA JYOTISH" written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI,> > PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of> > this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500> > years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get> > references regarding this in that book..I found it at page no. 8 of that> > book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH> > BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website "Brahman is real,> > > the Universe is unreal,> > > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u> > might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old)> > > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us> > nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this> > country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy> > please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our> > sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We> > cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc..only, even> > they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas.> > > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per> > ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile> > with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji> > & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one> > of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by> > some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also> > established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology> > shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that> > no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their> > verdicts.> > > With Regards> > > Pt.Lalkitabee> > > V.Shukla> > > , "Finn Wandahl" finn.wandahl@> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla,> > > >> > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology,> > and> > > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between> > > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of> > > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the> > > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology.> > > >> > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some> > Vedic> > > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the> > author> > > > of that text.> > > >> > > > Even though many people believe a text like> > Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra> > > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the> > > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > > indicate it> > > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old.> > > >> > > > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great> > sanskrit-scholar> > > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he> > has> > > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time,> > there> > > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he> > did> > > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all> > the> > > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned> > it.> > > >> > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of> > disconnected> > > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and> > written> > > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts> > > > over a period of around 100 years.> > > >> > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of> > > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been> > changed> > > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a> > conversation> > > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many> > > > textual similarities between the two works.> > > >> > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be> > full> > > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of> > > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is> > was> > > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by> > the> > > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago.> > > >> > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu> > > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I> > however> > > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not> > become> > > > to "religious" about these things.> > > >> > > > Best wishes,> > > > Finn Wandahl> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ >> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji> > > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the> > spirituality> > > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab> > is> > > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9> > > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN> > TREASURE> > > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH> > LIYAA,> > > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from> > > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory> > > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS> > ,needn't to> > > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA.> > > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs> > > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as> > wel> > > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that> > spiritual> > > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian> > > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each> > > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to> > achieve> > > > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So> > all> > > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this> > > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to> > study> > > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian> > ethos> > > > which is basically spiritual in character.> > > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini> > astrology.I> > > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR,> > > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor> > > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such> > > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture,> > It is> > > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.> > > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de> > rahey> > > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye> > bola> > > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi> > nahi> > > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko> > liya> > > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis> > kitab> > > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya> > hai,> > > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik> > pehloo> > > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa.> > > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12> > MAIN> > > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa> > hogaa> > > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz> > hai> > > > aapse.> > > > > With Regards> > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee> > > > > V.Shukla> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads./in/internetexplorer/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Dear Mr. Wandahl,The knowledge given by sages is universal and belongs to humanity all over the world . You have as much right as any Indian.I FRANKLY DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW THIS GREAT KNOWLEDGEDAWNED IN THE HEART OF GREAT SAINT AND SAGE Pt. ROOPCHANDJI.But one thing is very clear that:1. He had penned all the five books in the local language prevalent in the area he was residing2. He had used idiomatic language prevalent in that area even the slang's. These are not easily understood in the rest of the country3. Remedial measure suggested in lalkitab were more suited in the country side of his residence 4.Though Pt. ROOPCHAND JI HAD NOT CLAIMED ITS AUTHORSHIP, BUT HIS WORKS ARE IN ORIGINAL AND INNOVATIVE FORMAT. He took almost 13 years to complete all the five volumes.Now lets discuss the era of BPHS.after 5000 bc , there was comparatively cam period in India.In the field of astrology lot of new techniques were being developed. As I have written in my previous mail Panchang was devolved(weekdays, Lunar Tithis, Karna , Yogas'-sum of Moon's and Sun's longitudeon the basis of SIDEREAL SIGNS ,and 27 NAKSHATRAS based on Moon)It will be pertinent to understand that even much after commencement of CHRISTIAN ERA ,it was not practically possible to pin point the location of V.E.Point in the ZODIAC. As such , the question of using Tropical signs did not arise.In the Era of Vahaha Mihira , both zodiacs' were almost coinciding , as such if some one says Surya Siddhanta had adopted Tropical signs , this statement is of no value. Now lets come back to ERA of BPHS when it was being created AND DEVOLVED( around 2000BC) , the use of ascending point , 12 bhava , 12 signs and 27 Nakshatra and placement and movement of Nine planets in these bhavas and signs was being developed.A vast literature was created which observed and recorded the effects of planets movement in Nakshatras' BHAVAS AS WELL AS THEIR MUTUAL PLACEMENT . FOR THIS PURPOSETHEY HAVE DEVISED VARIOUS CHAKRAS AND HOROSCOPES. All Bhirgu ,Nadi and Samhita litrature is the creation of pre BPHS ERA. IT IS MY FEELING THAT THIS EXCELLENT KNOWLEDGE WAS DAWNED IN THE HEART OF Pt.. ROOPCHAND JI, WHO had DISTRIBUTED IT TO ALL MANKIND IN THE FORM THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS GREAT SCIENCE.BPHS AND JAIMINI'S UPDESH SUTRA ARE A STEP FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OFASTROLOGY.But we must gain understanding of pre -BPHS ERA literature, AS CLEARLY INDICATED IN ITS CHAPTER 3.SIMILARLY SUTRAS SAY IN ITS FIRST CHAPTER THAT GAIN MASTERY OVER HORA SHASTRA.IT SHOLD NOW CLEAR THAT BHIRGU SUTRA ( MPST OF IT STILL KEPT SECRET BY PERSONS LIKE BHATT) ARUN SAMHITA ,LALKITAB ,BPHS , UPDESH SUTRA ARE PART AND PARCEL OF THE OVERALL ASTROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT IN INDIA.As regard some young astrologers from Kerla is not able to appreciate this view.But this is not the case with more mature and older generation of astrologers from Kerala , some of them were my teachers.Regards, G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIAFinn Wandahl <finn.wandahl Sent: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 1:12:48 AM Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla, This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present discussion, for obvious reasons. I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic will be futile, leading to nowhere. However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely, and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30 years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab. Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this? Best wishes, Finn Wandahl @ .. com, "lalkitabee" <lalkitabee@ ...> wrote: > > Res Mr. Wandahl, > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers ,so the book named "BHARTIYA JYOTISH" written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website "Brahman is real, > the Universe is unreal, > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it.No-one of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their verdicts. > With Regards > Pt.Lalkitabee > V.Shukla > @ .. com, "Finn Wandahl" finn.wandahl@ wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. V. Shukla, > > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, and > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some Vedic > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the author > > of that text. > > > > Even though many people believe a text like Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. indicate it > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > > > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great sanskrit-scholar > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he has > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, there > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he did > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all the > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned it. > > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of disconnected > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and written > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > > over a period of around 100 years. > > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been changed > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a conversation > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > > textual similarities between the two works. > > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be full > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is was > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by the > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago.. > > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I however > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not become > > to "religious" about these things. > > > > Best wishes, > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ > wrote: > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the spirituality > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab is > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN "BAND MUTTHI", THE HIDDEN TREASURE > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH LIYAA, > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS.. & what are VEDAS ,needn't to > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as wel > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that spiritual > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to achieve > > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So all > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from "LAKH-CHAURASI" & in this > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to study > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian ethos > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini astrology.I > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr.. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, It is > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual. > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de rahey > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye bola > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi nahi > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko liya > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis kitab > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya hai, > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik pehloo > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho "RASHI 12 MAIN > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI" is se badaa saboot aur kyaa hogaa > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz hai > > aapse. > > > With Regards > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Respected Goel ji, it is a pleasant surprise. I never expected such an answer from ur goodself. Yes it is definitely knowledge of pre BPHS. Although discussion on this topic is curtailed. I couldn't help myself from doing a dandvat to you. If u know that much then u must be knowing much much more about lalkitab. Lots of Respect and Regards. Kulbir. On 7/12/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937 wrote: > Dear Mr. Wandahl, > The knowledge given by sages is universal and belongs to humanity all > over the world . You have as much right as any Indian. > I FRANKLY DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW THIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE > DAWNED IN THE HEART OF GREAT SAINT AND SAGE Pt. ROOPCHANDJI.But one thing > is very clear that: > 1. He had penned all the five books in the local language prevalent in the > area he was residing > 2. He had used idiomatic language prevalent in that area even the slang's. > These are not easily understood > in the rest of the country > 3. Remedial measure suggested in lalkitab were more suited in the country > side of his residence > 4.Though Pt. ROOPCHAND JI HAD NOT CLAIMED ITS AUTHORSHIP, BUT HIS WORKS ARE > IN > ORIGINAL AND INNOVATIVE FORMAT. He took almost 13 years to complete all > the five volumes. > Now lets discuss the era of BPHS.after 5000 bc , there was comparatively cam > period in India. > In the field of astrology lot of new techniques were being developed. As I > have written in my previous mail > Panchang was devolved(weekdays, Lunar Tithis, Karna , Yogas'-sum of Moon's > and Sun's longitude > on the basis of SIDEREAL SIGNS ,and 27 NAKSHATRAS based on Moon) > It will be pertinent to understand that even much after commencement of > CHRISTIAN ERA ,it was not practically possible to pin point the location > of V.E.Point in the ZODIAC. As such , the question of using Tropical signs > did not arise.In the Era of Vahaha Mihira , both zodiacs' were almost > coinciding , as such if some one says > Surya Siddhanta had adopted Tropical signs , this statement is of no > value. > Now lets come back to ERA of BPHS when it was being created AND > DEVOLVED( around 2000BC) , the use of ascending point , 12 bhava , 12 signs > and 27 Nakshatra and placement and movement of Nine planets in these bhavas > and signs was being developed.A vast literature was created which observed > and recorded the effects of planets movement in Nakshatras' BHAVAS AS WELL > AS THEIR MUTUAL PLACEMENT . FOR THIS PURPOSE > THEY HAVE DEVISED VARIOUS CHAKRAS AND HOROSCOPES. All Bhirgu ,Nadi and > Samhita litrature > is the creation of pre BPHS ERA. IT IS MY FEELING THAT THIS EXCELLENT > KNOWLEDGE WAS DAWNED > IN THE HEART OF Pt.. ROOPCHAND JI, WHO had DISTRIBUTED IT TO ALL MANKIND > IN THE FORM THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS GREAT SCIENCE. > BPHS AND JAIMINI'S UPDESH SUTRA ARE A STEP FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT IN THE > FIELD OF > ASTROLOGY.But we must gain understanding of pre -BPHS ERA literature, AS > CLEARLY INDICATED IN ITS CHAPTER 3. > SIMILARLY SUTRAS SAY IN ITS FIRST CHAPTER THAT GAIN MASTERY OVER HORA > SHASTRA. > IT SHOLD NOW CLEAR THAT BHIRGU SUTRA ( MPST OF IT STILL KEPT SECRET BY > PERSONS LIKE BHATT) ARUN SAMHITA ,LALKITAB ,BPHS , UPDESH SUTRA ARE PART AND > PARCEL OF THE OVERALL ASTROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT ININDIA. > As regard some young astrologers from Kerla is not able to appreciate this > view..But this is not the case with > more mature and older generation of astrologers from Kerala , some of them > were my teachers. > Regards, > > > > G.K.GOEL > Ph: 09350311433 > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > NEW DELHI-110 076 > INDIA > > > > > ________________________________ > Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl > > Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 1:12:48 AM > Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? > > > > > > Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla, > > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this > particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the > members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. > > What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal > findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar > from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present > discussion, for obvious reasons. > > I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking > your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and > respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic > will be futile, leading to nowhere. > > However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely, > and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30 > years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually > made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab. > > Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a > little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt > that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of > Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this? > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee@ ...> > wrote: >> >> Res Mr. Wandahl, >> Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the > history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the > sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar > only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya > Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers > ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, > PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of > this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 > years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get > references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that > book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH > BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, >> the Universe is unreal, >> Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u > might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) >> I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us > nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this > country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy > please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our > sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We > cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even > they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. >> We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per > ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile > with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji > & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it..No-one > of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by > some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also > established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology > shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that > no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their > verdicts. >> With Regards >> Pt.Lalkitabee >> V.Shukla >> , " Finn Wandahl " finn.wandahl@ > wrote: >> > >> > Dear Mr. V.. Shukla, >> > >> > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, > and >> > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between >> > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of >> > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the >> > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. >> > >> > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some > Vedic >> > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the > author >> > of that text. >> > >> > Even though many people believe a text like > Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra >> > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the >> > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > indicate it >> > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. >> > >> > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great > sanskrit-scholar >> > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he > has >> > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, > there >> > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he > did >> > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all > the >> > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned > it. >> > >> > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of > disconnected >> > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and > written >> > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts >> > over a period of around 100 years. >> > >> > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of >> > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been > changed >> > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a > conversation >> > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many >> > textual similarities between the two works. >> > >> > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be > full >> > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of >> > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is > was >> > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by > the >> > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. >> > >> > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu >> > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I > however >> > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not > become >> > to " religious " about these things. >> > >> > Best wishes, >> > Finn Wandahl >> > >> > >> > >> > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ > > wrote: >> > > >> > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji >> > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the > spirituality >> > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab > is >> > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 >> > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE >> > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH > LIYAA, >> > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from >> > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory >> > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS > ,needn't to >> > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. >> > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs >> > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as > wel >> > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that > spiritual >> > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian >> > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each >> > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to > achieve >> > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So > all >> > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this >> > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to > study >> > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian > ethos >> > which is basically spiritual in character. >> > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini > astrology.I >> > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, >> > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor >> > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such >> > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, > It is >> > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.. >> > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de > rahey >> > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye > bola >> > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi > nahi >> > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko > liya >> > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis > kitab >> > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya > hai, >> > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik > pehloo >> > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. >> > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 > MAIN >> > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa > hogaa >> > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz > hai >> > aapse. >> > > With Regards >> > > Pt.Lalkitabee >> > > V.Shukla >> > > >> > > Looking for local information? Find it on Local > http://in.local./ -- Sent from my mobile device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Dear Mr. Gopal Goel, Thank you, and keep up the good work. Best wishes, Finn Wandahl , Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937 wrote: > > Dear Mr. Wandahl, > The knowledge given by sages is universal and belongs to humanity all > over the world . You have as much right as any Indian. > I FRANKLY DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW THIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE > DAWNED IN THE HEART OF GREAT SAINT AND SAGE Pt. ROOPCHANDJI.But one thing > is very clear that: > 1. He had penned all the five books in the local language prevalent in the area he was residing > 2. He had used idiomatic language prevalent in that area even the slang's. These are not easily understood > in the rest of the country > 3. Remedial measure suggested in lalkitab were more suited in the country side of his residence > 4.Though Pt. ROOPCHAND JI HAD NOT CLAIMED ITS AUTHORSHIP, BUT HIS WORKS ARE IN > ORIGINAL AND INNOVATIVE FORMAT. He took almost 13 years to complete all the five volumes. > Now lets discuss the era of BPHS.after 5000 bc , there was comparatively cam period in India. > In the field of astrology lot of new techniques were being developed. As I have written in my previous mail > Panchang was devolved(weekdays, Lunar Tithis, Karna , Yogas'-sum of Moon's and Sun's longitude > on the basis of SIDEREAL SIGNS ,and 27 NAKSHATRAS based on Moon) > It will be pertinent to understand that even much after commencement of CHRISTIAN ERA ,it was not practically possible to pin point the location of V.E.Point in the ZODIAC. As such , the question of using Tropical signs did not arise.In the Era of Vahaha Mihira , both zodiacs' were almost coinciding , as such if some one says > Surya Siddhanta had adopted Tropical signs , this statement is of no value. > Now lets come back to ERA of BPHS when it was being created AND DEVOLVED( around 2000BC) , the use of ascending point , 12 bhava , 12 signs and 27 Nakshatra and placement and movement of Nine planets in these bhavas and signs was being developed.A vast literature was created which observed and recorded the effects of planets movement in Nakshatras' BHAVAS AS WELL AS THEIR MUTUAL PLACEMENT . FOR THIS PURPOSE > THEY HAVE DEVISED VARIOUS CHAKRAS AND HOROSCOPES. All Bhirgu ,Nadi and Samhita litrature > is the creation of pre BPHS ERA. IT IS MY FEELING THAT THIS EXCELLENT KNOWLEDGE WAS DAWNED > IN THE HEART OF Pt.. ROOPCHAND JI, WHO had DISTRIBUTED IT TO ALL MANKIND IN THE FORM THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS GREAT SCIENCE. > BPHS AND JAIMINI'S UPDESH SUTRA ARE A STEP FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF > ASTROLOGY.But we must gain understanding of pre -BPHS ERA literature, AS CLEARLY INDICATED IN ITS CHAPTER 3. > SIMILARLY SUTRAS SAY IN ITS FIRST CHAPTER THAT GAIN MASTERY OVER HORA SHASTRA. > IT SHOLD NOW CLEAR THAT BHIRGU SUTRA ( MPST OF IT STILL KEPT SECRET BY PERSONS LIKE BHATT) ARUN SAMHITA ,LALKITAB ,BPHS , UPDESH SUTRA ARE PART AND PARCEL OF THE OVERALL ASTROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT ININDIA. > As regard some young astrologers from Kerla is not able to appreciate this view..But this is not the case with > more mature and older generation of astrologers from Kerala , some of them were my teachers. > Regards, > > > > G.K.GOEL > Ph: 09350311433 > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > NEW DELHI-110 076 > INDIA > > > > > ________________________________ > Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl > > Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 1:12:48 AM > Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? > > > > > > Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla, > > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this > particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the > members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. > > What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal > findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar > from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present > discussion, for obvious reasons. > > I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking > your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and > respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic > will be futile, leading to nowhere. > > However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely, > and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30 > years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually > made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab. > > Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a > little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt > that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of > Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this? > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl, > > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the > history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the > sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar > only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya > Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers > ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, > PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of > this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 > years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get > references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that > book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH > BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, > > the Universe is unreal, > > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u > might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) > > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us > nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this > country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy > please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our > sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We > cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even > they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. > > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per > ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile > with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji > & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it..No-one > of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by > some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also > established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology > shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that > no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their > verdicts. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > , " Finn Wandahl " finn.wandahl@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. V.. Shukla, > > > > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, > and > > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > > > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some > Vedic > > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the > author > > > of that text. > > > > > > Even though many people believe a text like > Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra > > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > indicate it > > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > > > > > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great > sanskrit-scholar > > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he > has > > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, > there > > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he > did > > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all > the > > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned > it. > > > > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of > disconnected > > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and > written > > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > > > over a period of around 100 years. > > > > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been > changed > > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a > conversation > > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > > > textual similarities between the two works. > > > > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be > full > > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is > was > > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by > the > > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > > > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I > however > > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not > become > > > to " religious " about these things. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the > spirituality > > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab > is > > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE > > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH > LIYAA, > > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS > ,needn't to > > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as > wel > > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that > spiritual > > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to > achieve > > > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So > all > > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to > study > > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian > ethos > > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini > astrology.I > > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, > It is > > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.. > > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de > rahey > > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye > bola > > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi > nahi > > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko > liya > > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis > kitab > > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya > hai, > > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik > pehloo > > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 > MAIN > > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa > hogaa > > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz > hai > > > aapse. > > > > With Regards > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > Looking for local information? Find it on Local http://in.local./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Res G.K. Goyal Ji, This is not only an article by u, it is a marvellous piece of ur splendour of knowledge. With Regards Pt.lalkitabee V.Shukla Marvolous , Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937 wrote: > > Dear Mr. Wandahl, > The knowledge given by sages is universal and belongs to humanity all > over the world . You have as much right as any Indian. > I FRANKLY DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA AS TO HOW THIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE > DAWNED IN THE HEART OF GREAT SAINT AND SAGE Pt. ROOPCHANDJI.But one thing > is very clear that: > 1. He had penned all the five books in the local language prevalent in the area he was residing > 2. He had used idiomatic language prevalent in that area even the slang's. These are not easily understood > in the rest of the country > 3. Remedial measure suggested in lalkitab were more suited in the country side of his residence > 4.Though Pt. ROOPCHAND JI HAD NOT CLAIMED ITS AUTHORSHIP, BUT HIS WORKS ARE IN > ORIGINAL AND INNOVATIVE FORMAT. He took almost 13 years to complete all the five volumes. > Now lets discuss the era of BPHS.after 5000 bc , there was comparatively cam period in India. > In the field of astrology lot of new techniques were being developed. As I have written in my previous mail > Panchang was devolved(weekdays, Lunar Tithis, Karna , Yogas'-sum of Moon's and Sun's longitude > on the basis of SIDEREAL SIGNS ,and 27 NAKSHATRAS based on Moon) > It will be pertinent to understand that even much after commencement of CHRISTIAN ERA ,it was not practically possible to pin point the location of V.E.Point in the ZODIAC. As such , the question of using Tropical signs did not arise.In the Era of Vahaha Mihira , both zodiacs' were almost coinciding , as such if some one says > Surya Siddhanta had adopted Tropical signs , this statement is of no value. > Now lets come back to ERA of BPHS when it was being created AND DEVOLVED( around 2000BC) , the use of ascending point , 12 bhava , 12 signs and 27 Nakshatra and placement and movement of Nine planets in these bhavas and signs was being developed.A vast literature was created which observed and recorded the effects of planets movement in Nakshatras' BHAVAS AS WELL AS THEIR MUTUAL PLACEMENT . FOR THIS PURPOSE > THEY HAVE DEVISED VARIOUS CHAKRAS AND HOROSCOPES. All Bhirgu ,Nadi and Samhita litrature > is the creation of pre BPHS ERA. IT IS MY FEELING THAT THIS EXCELLENT KNOWLEDGE WAS DAWNED > IN THE HEART OF Pt.. ROOPCHAND JI, WHO had DISTRIBUTED IT TO ALL MANKIND IN THE FORM THAT THEY CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS GREAT SCIENCE. > BPHS AND JAIMINI'S UPDESH SUTRA ARE A STEP FORWARD IN THE DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF > ASTROLOGY.But we must gain understanding of pre -BPHS ERA literature, AS CLEARLY INDICATED IN ITS CHAPTER 3. > SIMILARLY SUTRAS SAY IN ITS FIRST CHAPTER THAT GAIN MASTERY OVER HORA SHASTRA. > IT SHOLD NOW CLEAR THAT BHIRGU SUTRA ( MPST OF IT STILL KEPT SECRET BY PERSONS LIKE BHATT) ARUN SAMHITA ,LALKITAB ,BPHS , UPDESH SUTRA ARE PART AND PARCEL OF THE OVERALL ASTROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT ININDIA. > As regard some young astrologers from Kerla is not able to appreciate this view..But this is not the case with > more mature and older generation of astrologers from Kerala , some of them were my teachers. > Regards, > > > > G.K.GOEL > Ph: 09350311433 > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > NEW DELHI-110 076 > INDIA > > > > > ________________________________ > Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl > > Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 1:12:48 AM > Re: Ashok ji; why study astrology? > > > > > > Dear Mr. Vipin Shukla, > > This is not the first time we disagree, but perhaps this time, on this > particular issue, we can at least agree to disagree, now when the > members of this group has been able to see both our arguments. > > What I have stated about Parasara Hora is based on my own personal > findings and research in cooperation with a certain sanskrit-scholar > from Kerala, whom I am sure wish to remain unknown in this present > discussion, for obvious reasons. > > I very much believe this to be the truth about Parasara Hora, but taking > your very religious position on this matter into consideration (and > respecting it) it clearly appears that further discussion on this topic > will be futile, leading to nowhere. > > However, being a foreigner I can speak my opinion on this matter freely, > and I like to say very frankly that being discontented by nearly 30 > years of studying and practicing Parasari astrology is what actually > made me seek refuge into the great Lal Kitab. > > Your position regarding who originated or wrote the great Lal Kitab is a > little unclear in your last message. What do you mean? Do you have doubt > that it was the late Pt. Roop Chand Joshi who wrote the five books of > Lal Kitab? Please elaborate on this? > > Best wishes, > Finn Wandahl > > , " lalkitabee " <lalkitabee@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl, > > Ur views are really very illustrative & u also indicated about the > history of astro-shastra, but the person like me do not depends on the > sources,which were provided by any persian,chinese or christian scholar > only.Beside explaining more in words,I want to inform u that Bhartiya > Gyaan Peeth is an authentic publication by Indian govt for researchers > ,so the book named " BHARTIYA JYOTISH " written by DR.NEMICHAND SHASTRI, > PUBLISHED BY BHARTIYA GYAAN PEETH is more authentic for the history of > this Bhartiya Jyotish.Ur reading says that it is not older that 500 > years & my reading says ,it is 28000 years old in india.U can get > references regarding this in that book.I found it at page no. 8 of that > book according RIGVED & SHATPATH BRAHMAN. U also agree with SHATPATH > BRAHMAN, bcoz as per ur website " Brahman is real, > > the Universe is unreal, > > Brahman is the Universe.( It can be raised as a topic that u > might not accept SHATPATH BRAHMAN also so much old) > > I do not want to fall in this controversy bcoz this will lead us > nowhere.It is the bad luck of India that invaders were attracted to this > country & tried to ruin treasure of our sages.So leave this controversy > please, because it will be the topic of our Identity & devotion to our > sages, for which we will depend on our revered forefathers at all.We > cant depend like Maxmooler, Keeth,Peterson or Vallentine etc.only, even > they were the best scholars of Sanskrit & Vedas. > > We are discussing at lalkitab & if each of this group follow as per > ur evidencial way ,the name of Pt.Roopchand Joshi ji also will be futile > with Lalkitab,bcoz it was published with the name of Pt.Girdhari Lal Ji > & Pandit Roop Chand Ji is not present phisically to claim on it..No-one > of this group accept this fact,bcoz the truth has been established by > some revered members. In the same way our revered forfathers also > established about Maharishis & spirituality in Vedas as wel as astrology > shastra also. Though u want to continue discussion,then no doubt I & > many like me will consider ur views as blasphemy.U can understand that > no discussion can go ahead at the sake of our forefathers & their > verdicts. > > With Regards > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > V.Shukla > > , " Finn Wandahl " finn.wandahl@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. V.. Shukla, > > > > > > Unfortunately there are many illusions connected to Hindu astrology, > and > > > many of these illusions have emerged because of a mix-up between > > > astrology and religion. This have given rise to all sorts of > > > misunderstandings regarding the chronology and the origin of the > > > different astrological texts of Hindu astrology. > > > > > > The mere fact that a certain text-book has been named after some > Vedic > > > Sage, does not necessarily mean that this Sage was actually the > author > > > of that text. > > > > > > Even though many people believe a text like > Brihat-Parasara- Hora-Shastra > > > to be more than 4,000 years old, a critical analysis of the > > > sanskrit-text and the content itself for anachronism, etc. > indicate it > > > to be hardly more than some 500 years old. > > > > > > The Persian astronomer/astrolog er Al Biruni was a great > sanskrit-scholar > > > and he visited India around the year 1,000AD. In his book India he > has > > > carefully mentioned all the astrological text know at that time, > there > > > was Saravali, Brihat Jataka and many other famous texts. However, he > did > > > not mention BPHS, which is supposed to be the most important of all > the > > > text. Had it been in exixtance he would undoubtedly have mentioned > it. > > > > > > Obviously BPHS is a compendium consisting of all kinds of > disconnected > > > astrological material that was indiscriminately collected and > written > > > together somewhere around the 16th century AD, probably in two parts > > > over a period of around 100 years. > > > > > > It is possible BPHS was supposed to have been included as a part of > > > Vishnu Purana. This is actually very possible since VP had been > changed > > > so many times already and both VP and BPHS are framed as a > conversation > > > between Sage Parasara and his disciple Maitriya. There are so many > > > textual similarities between the two works. > > > > > > I do not share the general admiration about BPHS. I find it to be > full > > > of disconnected fragments of astrological methods and full of > > > contradictions. I think perhaps its similarity with Vishnu Purana is > was > > > has made it so famous, and made so many believe it was written by > the > > > great Vedic sage Parasara himself 4,000 years ago. > > > > > > I have publicly advocated against these illusions and many Hindu > > > astrologers considered these opinions of mine like blasphemy. I > however > > > believe it is wise of us to keep an open, critical mind and not > become > > > to " religious " about these things. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Finn Wandahl > > > > > > > > > > > > , lalkitabee <lalkitabee@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Res Mr. Wandahl & Yograj ji > > > > It is not fare at all.Both of u completely vanished the > spirituality > > > not only of Lalkitab but the whole of astrology also.Even lalkitab > is > > > also a astrological script but which book itself indicates about- 9 > > > NIDHI & 12 SIDDHI, NATURAL SECRET IN " BAND MUTTHI " , THE HIDDEN > TREASURE > > > OF NEW BORNED. BUT (STATUE) SE ROOH NE APNA GHAR KYON POOCHH > LIYAA, > > > JHAGDAA ROOH AUR MAAYA KA , etc. How u can neglect these lines from > > > spiritual touch of this book.Astro Shastra itself is a 2nd mandatory > > > part of the system to understand the VEDAS. & what are VEDAS > ,needn't to > > > explain.Lalkitab is also a chain of ASTROSHASTRA. > > > > The views of u seem the result of the thought of Western vs > > > Indian.The spirituality is the base of the whole Indian culture as > wel > > > as it reflects in Lalkitab also.No-one bothers in India that > spiritual > > > words can be announced only in Mandir or Church or Masjid etc.Indian > > > culture has spirituality in whole livings & non-livings & at each > > > step.The thorough knowledge base of Indian culture inspires to > achieve > > > CHATURVARG-PHAL- PRAPTI & its peak level has adviced to get MOKSHA.So > all > > > of our knowledge base is to get rid from " LAKH-CHAURASI " & in this > > > process materialistic world is in between. So,If someone wants to > study > > > Indian vedic astrology then it has to be in the context of Indian > ethos > > > which is basically spiritual in character. > > > > Res Wandahl Ji u have also knowledge of vedic & jaimini > astrology.I > > > want to say that these also were written by MAHARISHI PARASHAR, > > > MAHARISHI PINGAL, MAHARISHI JAIMINI etc. No-one has called as Doctor > > > Parashar, Dr. PINGAL or Dr. Jaimini. Which data of knowledge as such > > > originated by Maharishis, that how can be only a normal scripture, > It is > > > itself is a proof to proove this, as spiritual.. > > > > Res yograj Ji, aap is kitaab ko sirf ek novil ka naam de > rahey > > > hain. Yah baat aur hai ki ise bataur noval baar baar padhne ke liye > bola > > > gayaa hai ,lekin iska gyaan ek Novil ki kahani ke barabar kabhi bhi > nahi > > > kahaa ja saktaa. Jis kitab main Pitri Rin,Matri Rin jaise topics ko > liya > > > gayaa hai, jis kitab main antar alop ki leharon ka jikra hai, jis > kitab > > > main dono bhavon ke beech Guru-sthan ya gurudwar ka jikra kiya gaya > hai, > > > jise aam taur par Brahm-sthan bhi kahaa jataa hai ,uske adhyatmik > pehloo > > > ko kisi bhi tarah se nakaaraa nahi ja saktaa. > > > > Aur to aur jis kitab main shuru main hee likhaa ho " RASHI 12 > MAIN > > > 7 GRAH SE NARAK CHAURASI KAT-TA HAI " is se badaa saboot aur kyaa > hogaa > > > iske spiritual hone ka ? Agar meri baat buri lagi ho to muafi ki arz > hai > > > aapse. > > > > With Regards > > > > Pt.Lalkitabee > > > > V.Shukla > > > > > > > > Looking for local information? Find it on Local http://in.local./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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