Fwd: Astrologers cry foul over renovation of world famous Jantar Mantar

October 5, 2008

hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear Dr. Sharan,

Namaskar!

<Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession Correction and

are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.

Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.>

Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was aligned to

seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga Jyotisha,

Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha!

IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other calendars of all the

countries/religions the world over are also aligned to seasons!

And seasons are " immune " to precession.

This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion emanated

from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst confounded by

Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy, least of all

anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his predictive

gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known as " Vedic

astrology " these days, with the result that we are celebrating

Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and thereby Vasanti

navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and Sharadiya

Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly, Dipavali

is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28 this year---

all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of precession!

Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become much worse

than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed criterion of

synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to seasons nor

to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to

is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.

Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage of time,

after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating Uttarayana on the

day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn Equinox,

thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya Navratras in

Shishira Ritu and so on.

Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must

mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha tyranny, in the

name of precession corrections.

With regards,

A K Kaul

hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

wrote:

>

> > >

> > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a collection of

> > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally means

> > calculation

> > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here following

the

> > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical observatory. The

> > > renovation work has not gone down well with traditional Indian

> > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and experienced

astrologers

> > in the

> > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as one of the

> > reasons,

> > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and other aids

> > getting

> > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > >

> > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > >

> >

>

> Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession Correction

and

> are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.

>

> Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Anand M. Sharan

>

--- End forwarded message ---

October 5, 2008

hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear Dr. Sharan,

Namaskar!

<That rashi division had to be based on his time.

Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the precession.>

There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the zodiac---

- whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian constellations

became astrological signs for Greece and other countries, wherefrom

they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.

They are actually unequal constellations " recycled " as equal rashis

by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that " Basic rashichakra " of twelve

equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to four

seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place on the

shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and will

continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very Winter

solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek and

Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other eleven

astrological signs---they are all " aligned " to seasons, in spite of

being twelve imaginary divisions.

Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar, Kumbha

etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the time of

the Rigveda when it had said " veda maaso dhrita vratah veda ya

upajayate... " or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that days go on

increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who had

erected Jantar Mantar.

With regards,

A K Kaul

hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

wrote:

>

> Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi from the

> shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on his time.

> Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the precession.

>

> One can not build permanent brick structures without variability on

> this earth without subject to precession.

>

> I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong. His

Samrat

> Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi Yantra.

>

> Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference point -

> so, how one would predict any thing using it ?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Anand M. Sharan

>

> hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

Correction and

> > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.

> > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.>

> >

> > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was aligned

to

> > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga Jyotisha,

> > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the

mlechha!

> > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other calendars of all

the

> > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to seasons!

> >

> > And seasons are " immune " to precession.

> >

> > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion emanated

> > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst confounded by

> > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy, least of

all

> > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

> >

> > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his predictive

> > gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known as " Vedic

> > astrology " these days, with the result that we are celebrating

> > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and thereby

Vasanti

> > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and Sharadiya

> > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly,

Dipavali

> > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28 this

year---

> > all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of precession!

> >

> > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become much

worse

> > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed criterion

of

> > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to seasons

nor

> > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to

> > is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.

> >

> > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage of

time,

> > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating Uttarayana on

the

> > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn Equinox,

> > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya Navratras

in

> > Shishira Ritu and so on.

> >

> > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must

> > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha tyranny, in

the

> > name of precession corrections.

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a collection

of

> > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally means

> > > > calculation

> > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here

following

> > the

> > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical observatory.

The

> > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with traditional

Indian

> > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and experienced

> > astrologers

> > > > in the

> > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as one of

the

> > > > reasons,

> > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and other

aids

> > > > getting

> > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

Correction

> > and

> > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.

> > >

> > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Anand M. Sharan

> > >

> >

>

--- End forwarded message ---

October 6, 2008

hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear Dr. Sharan,

Thanks for the reply.

<Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute with

commercial jyotishis>

I have uploaded a file " sept_22_equinox_animation.gif

animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day " . It is the courtesy

of " Astronomy_Activities_2009 " forum.

That gif is the " picture of the latest equinox of September 22 " as

per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt that

Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about some so

called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as precessional

year by " Vedic astrologers " !

<This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual horoscopes, and

had his education at Benaras where the awareness of precession was

there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>

Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do with

any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about eighth

century AD!

You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy! Benaras

jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya Sidhanta by

Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other than

one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras Hindu

University, even in twenty-first century, under the style " Vishva

Hindu Panchanga " !

They are enamoured of the SS because it was " revealed by Surya

Bhagwan to Maya " as per the claims of Maya himself! After all, how

could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most monstrous

astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some real

thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, Benaras

jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-model

viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most

accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!

As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis except the

ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are actually

Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you peruse

the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya Sidhanta

mean elements for any year!

Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and uselss--

however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of Vikrami

era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so called

sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just have a

sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they are not

Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as already

clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct import

from Babylonia via Greeks.

With regards,

A K Kaul

hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

wrote:

>

> Dear Kauljee:

>

> Thanks for your reply.

>

> I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi Jantar

> Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional effect,

> and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.

>

> Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

with

> commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja Sawai Jay

> Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at Benaras

> where the awareness of precession was there due to the Vikrami

Samvat.

>

> The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the actual or

> historical rashis used in the European Calendar.

>

> The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church Based )

> concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their reference

> point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which should have

> actually gone to 57 BC.

>

> Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you live.

> Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is not

Lahiri

> concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to European

Patri

> about Planetary Positions with time ).

>

> Thanks.

>

> Anand M. Sharan

>

> hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > Namaskar!

> > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.

> > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the precession.>

> >

> > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the

zodiac-

> --

> > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian

> constellations

> > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,

wherefrom

> > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha, Vrisha

> etc.

> > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.

> >

> > They are actually unequal constellations " recycled " as equal

> rashis

> > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that " Basic rashichakra " of

twelve

> > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to four

> > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place on

the

> > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and will

> > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very

> Winter

> > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek and

> > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other eleven

> > astrological signs---they are all " aligned " to seasons, in spite

of

> > being twelve imaginary divisions.

> >

> > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar,

Kumbha

> > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the time

> of

> > the Rigveda when it had said " veda maaso dhrita vratah veda ya

> > upajayate... " or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that days

go

> on

> > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who had

> > erected Jantar Mantar.

> >

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi

from

> the

> > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on his

> time.

> > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

precession.

> > >

> > > One can not build permanent brick structures without

variability

> on

> > > this earth without subject to precession.

> > >

> > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong. His

> > Samrat

> > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi Yantra.

> > >

> > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference

> point -

> > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Anand M. Sharan

> > >

> > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > >

> > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > Correction and

> > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.

> > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.>

> > > >

> > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was

> aligned

> > to

> > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga

Jyotisha,

> > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the

> > mlechha!

> > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other calendars of

> all

> > the

> > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to

seasons!

> > > >

> > > > And seasons are " immune " to precession.

> > > >

> > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion

> emanated

> > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst confounded

> by

> > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy, least

of

> > all

> > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

> > > >

> > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his

> predictive

> > > > gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known as " Vedic

> > > > astrology " these days, with the result that we are

celebrating

> > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and thereby

> > Vasanti

> > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and Sharadiya

> > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly,

> > Dipavali

> > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28

this

> > year---

> > > > all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of precession!

> > > >

> > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become

much

> > worse

> > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed

> criterion

> > of

> > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to

> seasons

> > nor

> > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to

> > > > is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage of

> > time,

> > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating Uttarayana

on

> > the

> > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn

> Equinox,

> > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya

> Navratras

> > in

> > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.

> > > >

> > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must

> > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha tyranny,

> in

> > the

> > > > name of precession corrections.

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > <amsharanx@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a

> collection

> > of

> > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally

> means

> > > > > > calculation

> > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here

> > following

> > > > the

> > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical

> observatory.

> > The

> > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with traditional

> > Indian

> > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and experienced

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as one

> of

> > the

> > > > > > reasons,

> > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and

other

> > aids

> > > > > > getting

> > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > Correction

> > > > and

> > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

--- End forwarded message ---

October 6, 2008

Phony intellectuals, bogus academicians, mindless media agents, pseudosecularists, mentally deranged pen pushers and bizarre liberals are hired bymerciless Missionaries to work as paid subversive agents. They act for mercenaryMissionaries for mental misdirection, psychological warfare and to spread falsestories. Your meaningless psycho babble clearly indicates that you are an agentprovocateur working for few Missionary breadcrumbs

Christians dismiss Hinduspiritual and cultural traditions. The Church clearly intent on liberatingHindus from their cultural roots and enslave them with rigid, closed, divisiveand linear Christian dogma. Missionaries with the closed, rigid andnon-compromising dogma are obsessed with the idea of converting Hindus whobelieve in pluralism, tolerance and the all inclusive Vedic philosophy.Comprehensive and spiritual Vedic thought has always posed a serious challengeand dilemma for the Christian Church. For centuries, unable to challenge thebroader and systemic Hindu philosophy, Christian missionaries have resorted todeceptive mind manipulation strategies to trap and convert Hindus. , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > jyotirved@ wrote:> > Dear Dr. Sharan,> Thanks for the reply.> > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute with > commercial jyotishis> > > I have uploaded a file "sept_22_equinox_animation.gif> animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day". It is the courtesy > of "Astronomy_Activities_2009" forum. > > That gif is the "picture of the latest equinox of September 22" as > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt that > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about some so > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as precessional > year by "Vedic astrologers"!> > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual horoscopes, and > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of precession was > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>> > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do with > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about eighth > century AD! > > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy! Benaras > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya Sidhanta by > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other than > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras Hindu > University, even in twenty-first century, under the style "Vishva > Hindu Panchanga"! > > They are enamoured of the SS because it was "revealed by Surya > Bhagwan to Maya" as per the claims of Maya himself! After all, how > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most monstrous > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some real > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, Benaras > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-model > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)! > > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis except the > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are actually > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you peruse > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya Sidhanta > mean elements for any year!> > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and uselss-- > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of Vikrami > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so called > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just have a > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they are not > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as already > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct import > from Babylonia via Greeks.> With regards,> A K Kaul> > > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx" <amsharanx@> > wrote:> >> > Dear Kauljee:> > > > Thanks for your reply. > > > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi Jantar > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional effect, > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation. > > > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute > with > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja Sawai Jay > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at Benaras > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the Vikrami > Samvat.> > > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the actual or > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar. > > > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church Based ) > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their reference > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which should have > > actually gone to 57 BC.> > > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you live. > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is not > Lahiri > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to European > Patri > > about Planetary Positions with time ).> > > > Thanks.> > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > Namaskar!> > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.> > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the precession.>> > > > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the > zodiac-> > --> > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian > > constellations > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries, > wherefrom > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha, Vrisha > > etc. > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.> > > > > > They are actually unequal constellations "recycled" as equal > > rashis > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that "Basic rashichakra" of > twelve > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to four > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place on > the > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and will > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very > > Winter > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek and > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other eleven > > > astrological signs---they are all "aligned" to seasons, in spite > of > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.> > > > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar, > Kumbha > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the time > > of > > > the Rigveda when it had said "veda maaso dhrita vratah veda ya > > > upajayate..." or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that days > go > > on > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who had > > > erected Jantar Mantar.> > > > > > With regards,> > > A K Kaul> > > > > > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx" > <amsharanx@> > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi > from > > the> > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on his > > time.> > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the > precession.> > > > > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without > variability > > on> > > > this earth without subject to precession.> > > > > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong. His > > > Samrat> > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi Yantra.> > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference > > point -> > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?> > > > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession > > > Correction and> > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.> > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.>> > > > > > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was > > aligned > > > to > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga > Jyotisha, > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the > > > mlechha! > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other calendars of > > all > > > the > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to > seasons! > > > > > > > > > > And seasons are "immune" to precession. > > > > > > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion > > emanated > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst confounded > > by > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy, least > of > > > all > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.> > > > > > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his > > predictive > > > > > gimmicks, which "science" is euphemistically known as "Vedic > > > > > astrology" these days, with the result that we are > celebrating > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and thereby > > > Vasanti > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and Sharadiya > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly, > > > Dipavali > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28 > this > > > year---> > > > > all thanks to "Ayanamsha" on the shoulders of precession!> > > > > > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become > much > > > worse > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed > > criterion > > > of > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to > > seasons > > > nor > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to > > > > > is "almighty" Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.> > > > > > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage of > > > time, > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating Uttarayana > on > > > the > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn > > Equinox, > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya > > Navratras > > > in > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.> > > > > > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha tyranny, > > in > > > the > > > > > name of precession corrections.> > > > > With regards,> > > > > A K Kaul> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx" > > > <amsharanx@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a > > collection > > > of> > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally > > means > > > > > > > calculation> > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here > > > following > > > > > the> > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical > > observatory. > > > The> > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with traditional > > > Indian> > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and experienced > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > in the> > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as one > > of > > > the > > > > > > > reasons,> > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and > other > > > aids > > > > > > > getting> > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession > > > Correction > > > > > and> > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could see.> > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in those.> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > > > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > --- End forwarded message --->

October 7, 2008

hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear Dr. Sharan,

Namaskar!

You have said, " The Samrat Yantra will give the correct noon which I

have also said. It is his Rashis marked in the ground ( another

Yantra at Jantar Mantar ) which WILL NOT. I am sure you are missing

the point. "

The sentence " It is his Rashis marked in the ground (another yantra

at Jantar Mantar) which WILL NOT " is incomplete! " Which will not "

what?. What point am I missing?. What types of rashis " are marked

in the ground " accoding to you?

<There was no Vikramaditya in 57 BC but the Vikram Era does not

represent that king who never was but it represents Chandragupta II,>

Do you mean to say that India never had any king named Vikramidtya?

Secondly, Chandragutpa-II ruled from 375 to 415 CE. Do you mean to

say that by " inventing " an era in the name of a king " who never was "

he just befooled the public that he was ruling India from 57 BC, in

the name of Vikrmaditya, and that is why he named that " era " as

Vikrami era or was there any other reason for the same?

For your information, it must be put on record that there are no

references to any Vikrami Era till about eighth century CE. As such,

how do you arrive at the conclusion that it was concoted in around

4th century CE, and not much later?

<and its reference Year is 57 BC due to the transition of the equinox

from Aries to Pisces in that year.>

But then that is Greek astrology---since equinox moves from one

constellation to another only vis-a-vis Greek constellations! Indian

jyotishis never accepted (even talked about!) the theory of any

transition of the Vernal Equinox from one constellation to another!

We have seen such transits (only byimplication!) in the Vedas, but

they are only vis-a-vis krittika etc. nakshatras and not Aries etc.

Greek constellations!

That means thus that the transition from Taurus to Aries

constellation must have also been worked out by some Greek astronomer

if at all such thing had been worked out, in around 4th century CE,

as claimed by you! THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION IS: WHY WOULD ANY

GREEK ASTRONOMER NAME THAT TRANSITION AS VIKRAMI ERA?

You are also overlooking the fact that Indian jyotishis, including

their " role-model " Varahamihira, did not have any idea about any

precession till the time of Munjala in 9th century CE! This has been

made clear by Alberuni also in his " Alberuni's India " . Indian

jyotishis were groping in darkness and went on inventing one after

the other theory in the name of beeja-corrections just to account for

the monstrous anomalies in the calculations of the Surya Sidhanta vis-

a-vis the actual timings of Equinoxes/Solstices! Even as late as

ninth century CE, when interpolations about the Ayanamsha sholkas in

the Surya Sidhanta were made, Indian Jyotishis believed that the

Ayanamsha (precession!) had oscillatory (and not unidirection---which

it actually is!)movement like a pendulum upto 27 degrees!

AS SUCH, YOUR PRESUMPTION THAT SOME INDIAN JYOTISHIS WORKED OUT THE

THEORY OF MOVEMENT OF EQUINOX FROM TAURUS TO ARIES GREEK

CONSTELLATION IN AROUND FOURTH CENTURY CE, IN THE TIME OF

CHANDRAGUPTA-II, WHICH THEY THEN PREDATED AS VIKRAMI ERA, HAS NO LEGS

TO STAND UPON.

With regards,

A K Kaul

hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

wrote:

>

> Shree Kauljee:

>

> Thanks for your reply.

>

> The Samrat Yantra will give the correct noon which I have also said.

> It is his Rashis marked in the ground ( another Yantra at Jantar

> Mantar ) which WILL NOT. I am sure you are missing the point.

>

> There was no Vikramaditya in 57 BC but the Vikram Era does not

> represent that king who never was but it represents Chandragupta II,

> and its reference Year is 57 BC due to the transition of the equinox

> from Aries to Pisces in that year. This era was arrived at by Back

> Calculations by astronomers of Chandragupta Vikramaditya's court.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Anand M. Sharan

>

> hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > Thanks for the reply.

> >

> > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

with

> > commercial jyotishis>

> >

> > I have uploaded a file " sept_22_equinox_animation.gif

> > animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day " . It is the

courtesy

> > of " Astronomy_Activities_2009 " forum.

> >

> > That gif is the " picture of the latest equinox of September 22 "

as

> > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt

that

> > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about some

so

> > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as

precessional

> > year by " Vedic astrologers " !

> >

> > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual horoscopes,

and

> > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of precession

was

> > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>

> >

> > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do

with

> > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about eighth

> > century AD!

> >

> > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy!

Benaras

> > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya

Sidhanta by

> > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other

than

> > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras

Hindu

> > University, even in twenty-first century, under the

style " Vishva

> > Hindu Panchanga " !

> >

> > They are enamoured of the SS because it was " revealed by Surya

> > Bhagwan to Maya " as per the claims of Maya himself! After all,

how

> > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most

monstrous

> > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some

real

> > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, Benaras

> > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-

model

> > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most

> > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!

> >

> > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis except

the

> > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are actually

> > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you

peruse

> > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya

Sidhanta

> > mean elements for any year!

> >

> > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and uselss--

> > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of

Vikrami

> > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so

called

> > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just have

a

> > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they are

not

> > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as already

> > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct

import

> > from Babylonia via Greeks.

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kauljee:

> > >

> > > Thanks for your reply.

> > >

> > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi Jantar

> > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional

effect,

> > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.

> > >

> > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

> > with

> > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja Sawai

Jay

> > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at

Benaras

> > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the Vikrami

> > Samvat.

> > >

> > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the

actual or

> > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar.

> > >

> > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church

Based )

> > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their

reference

> > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which should

have

> > > actually gone to 57 BC.

> > >

> > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you

live.

> > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is not

> > Lahiri

> > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to European

> > Patri

> > > about Planetary Positions with time ).

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Anand M. Sharan

> > >

> > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.

> > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

precession.>

> > > >

> > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the

> > zodiac-

> > > --

> > > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian

> > > constellations

> > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,

> > wherefrom

> > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha,

Vrisha

> > > etc.

> > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.

> > > >

> > > > They are actually unequal constellations " recycled " as

equal

> > > rashis

> > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that " Basic rashichakra " of

> > twelve

> > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to

four

> > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place

on

> > the

> > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and

will

> > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very

> > > Winter

> > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek

and

> > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other

eleven

> > > > astrological signs---they are all " aligned " to seasons, in

spite

> > of

> > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.

> > > >

> > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar,

> > Kumbha

> > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the

time

> > > of

> > > > the Rigveda when it had said " veda maaso dhrita vratah veda

ya

> > > > upajayate... " or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that

days

> > go

> > > on

> > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who

had

> > > > erected Jantar Mantar.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > <amsharanx@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi

> > from

> > > the

> > > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on

his

> > > time.

> > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

> > precession.

> > > > >

> > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without

> > variability

> > > on

> > > > > this earth without subject to precession.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong.

His

> > > > Samrat

> > > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi

Yantra.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference

> > > point -

> > > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > >

> > > > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > Correction and

> > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could

see.

> > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

those.>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was

> > > aligned

> > > > to

> > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga

> > Jyotisha,

> > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the

> > > > mlechha!

> > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other

calendars of

> > > all

> > > > the

> > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to

> > seasons!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And seasons are " immune " to precession.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion

> > > emanated

> > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst

confounded

> > > by

> > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy,

least

> > of

> > > > all

> > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his

> > > predictive

> > > > > > gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known

as " Vedic

> > > > > > astrology " these days, with the result that we are

> > celebrating

> > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and

thereby

> > > > Vasanti

> > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and

Sharadiya

> > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu!

Similarly,

> > > > Dipavali

> > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28

> > this

> > > > year---

> > > > > > all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of precession!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become

> > much

> > > > worse

> > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed

> > > criterion

> > > > of

> > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to

> > > seasons

> > > > nor

> > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to

> > > > > > is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage

of

> > > > time,

> > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating

Uttarayana

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn

> > > Equinox,

> > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya

> > > Navratras

> > > > in

> > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc.

must

> > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha

tyranny,

> > > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > name of precession corrections.

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > > > <amsharanx@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a

> > > collection

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and

literally

> > > means

> > > > > > > > calculation

> > > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention

here

> > > > following

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical

> > > observatory.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with

traditional

> > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and

experienced

> > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as

one

> > > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > reasons,

> > > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and

> > other

> > > > aids

> > > > > > > > getting

> > > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > Correction

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could

see.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

those.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

--- End forwarded message ---

October 8, 2008

Dear " lion " who howls like a jackal!

Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and filthy

language, I wish you have given even a single counter-argument

against any of the points that I have raised!

Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---

astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then

what is the basis of your howling?

Secondly, have you seen " Kashi Vishva Panchang " of Benaras Hindu

University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or

inaccuracy?

If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal

about it?

Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about

Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your

personal views about them on the basis of what you have read/heard?

I may put on record that I can " shout " louder than you, but such

dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are bent

on defending and spreading adharma in the name of " Vedic astrology " .

Dhanyavad.

A K Kaul

, " lion_draco1983 "

<lion_draco1983 wrote:

>

> Phony intellectuals, bogus academicians, mindless media agents,

pseudo

> secularists, mentally deranged pen pushers and bizarre liberals are

> hired by

> merciless Missionaries to work as paid subversive agents. They act

for

> mercenary

> Missionaries for mental misdirection, psychological warfare and to

> spread false

> stories. Your meaningless psycho babble clearly indicates that you

are

> an agent

> provocateur working for few Missionary breadcrumbs Christians

dismiss

> Hindu

> spiritual and cultural traditions. The Church clearly intent on

> liberating

> Hindus from their cultural roots and enslave them with rigid,

closed,

> divisive

> and linear Christian dogma. Missionaries with the closed, rigid and

> non-compromising dogma are obsessed with the idea of converting

Hindus

> who

> believe in pluralism, tolerance and the all inclusive Vedic

philosophy.

> Comprehensive and spiritual Vedic thought has always posed a serious

> challenge

> and dilemma for the Christian Church. For centuries, unable to

challenge

> the

> broader and systemic Hindu philosophy, Christian missionaries have

> resorted to

> deceptive mind manipulation strategies to trap and convert Hindus.

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > jyotirved@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > Thanks for the reply.

> >

> > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

with

> > commercial jyotishis>

> >

> > I have uploaded a file " sept_22_equinox_animation.gif

> > animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day " . It is the

courtesy

> > of " Astronomy_Activities_2009 " forum.

> >

> > That gif is the " picture of the latest equinox of September 22 " as

> > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt that

> > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about some

so

> > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as

precessional

> > year by " Vedic astrologers " !

> >

> > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual horoscopes,

and

> > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of precession was

> > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>

> >

> > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do

with

> > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about eighth

> > century AD!

> >

> > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy! Benaras

> > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya

Sidhanta by

> > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other than

> > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras

Hindu

> > University, even in twenty-first century, under the style " Vishva

> > Hindu Panchanga " !

> >

> > They are enamoured of the SS because it was " revealed by Surya

> > Bhagwan to Maya " as per the claims of Maya himself! After all, how

> > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most

monstrous

> > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some real

> > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, Benaras

> > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-model

> > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most

> > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!

> >

> > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis except

the

> > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are actually

> > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you

peruse

> > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya Sidhanta

> > mean elements for any year!

> >

> > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and uselss--

> > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of

Vikrami

> > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so called

> > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just have a

> > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they are

not

> > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as already

> > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct import

> > from Babylonia via Greeks.

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kauljee:

> > >

> > > Thanks for your reply.

> > >

> > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi Jantar

> > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional

effect,

> > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.

> > >

> > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

> > with

> > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja Sawai Jay

> > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at

Benaras

> > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the Vikrami

> > Samvat.

> > >

> > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the

actual or

> > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar.

> > >

> > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church Based )

> > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their

reference

> > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which should

have

> > > actually gone to 57 BC.

> > >

> > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you

live.

> > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is not

> > Lahiri

> > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to European

> > Patri

> > > about Planetary Positions with time ).

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Anand M. Sharan

> > >

> > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.

> > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

precession.>

> > > >

> > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the

> > zodiac-

> > > --

> > > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian

> > > constellations

> > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,

> > wherefrom

> > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha,

Vrisha

> > > etc.

> > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.

> > > >

> > > > They are actually unequal constellations " recycled " as equal

> > > rashis

> > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that " Basic rashichakra " of

> > twelve

> > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to

four

> > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place on

> > the

> > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and will

> > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very

> > > Winter

> > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek

and

> > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other

eleven

> > > > astrological signs---they are all " aligned " to seasons, in

spite

> > of

> > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.

> > > >

> > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar,

> > Kumbha

> > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the

time

> > > of

> > > > the Rigveda when it had said " veda maaso dhrita vratah veda ya

> > > > upajayate... " or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that days

> > go

> > > on

> > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who

had

> > > > erected Jantar Mantar.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > <amsharanx@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi

> > from

> > > the

> > > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on

his

> > > time.

> > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

> > precession.

> > > > >

> > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without

> > variability

> > > on

> > > > > this earth without subject to precession.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong.

His

> > > > Samrat

> > > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi

Yantra.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference

> > > point -

> > > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > >

> > > > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > Correction and

> > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could

see.

> > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

those.>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was

> > > aligned

> > > > to

> > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga

> > Jyotisha,

> > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the

> > > > mlechha!

> > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other

calendars of

> > > all

> > > > the

> > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to

> > seasons!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And seasons are " immune " to precession.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion

> > > emanated

> > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst

confounded

> > > by

> > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy,

least

> > of

> > > > all

> > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his

> > > predictive

> > > > > > gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known

as " Vedic

> > > > > > astrology " these days, with the result that we are

> > celebrating

> > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and

thereby

> > > > Vasanti

> > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and

Sharadiya

> > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly,

> > > > Dipavali

> > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28

> > this

> > > > year---

> > > > > > all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of precession!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become

> > much

> > > > worse

> > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed

> > > criterion

> > > > of

> > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to

> > > seasons

> > > > nor

> > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to

> > > > > > is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage

of

> > > > time,

> > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating

Uttarayana

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn

> > > Equinox,

> > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya

> > > Navratras

> > > > in

> > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must

> > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha

tyranny,

> > > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > name of precession corrections.

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > > > <amsharanx@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a

> > > collection

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally

> > > means

> > > > > > > > calculation

> > > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here

> > > > following

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical

> > > observatory.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with

traditional

> > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and

experienced

> > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as

one

> > > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > reasons,

> > > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and

> > other

> > > > aids

> > > > > > > > getting

> > > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > Correction

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could

see.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

those.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

>

October 8, 2008

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear " lion " who howls like a jackal!

Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and filthy

language, I wish you have given even a single counter-argument

against any of the points that I have raised!

Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---

astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then

what is the basis of your howling?

Secondly, have you seen " Kashi Vishva Panchang " of Benaras Hindu

University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or

inaccuracy?

If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal

about it?

Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about

Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your

personal views about them on the basis of what you have read/heard?

I may put on record that I can " shout " louder than you, but such

dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are bent

on defending and spreading adharma in the name of " Vedic astrology " .

Dhanyavad.

A K Kaul

, " lion_draco1983 "

<lion_draco1983@> wrote:

>

> Phony intellectuals, bogus academicians, mindless media agents,

pseudo

> secularists, mentally deranged pen pushers and bizarre liberals are

> hired by

> merciless Missionaries to work as paid subversive agents. They act

for

> mercenary

> Missionaries for mental misdirection, psychological warfare and to

> spread false

> stories. Your meaningless psycho babble clearly indicates that you

are

> an agent

> provocateur working for few Missionary breadcrumbs Christians

dismiss

> Hindu

> spiritual and cultural traditions. The Church clearly intent on

> liberating

> Hindus from their cultural roots and enslave them with rigid,

closed,

> divisive

> and linear Christian dogma. Missionaries with the closed, rigid and

> non-compromising dogma are obsessed with the idea of converting

Hindus

> who

> believe in pluralism, tolerance and the all inclusive Vedic

philosophy.

> Comprehensive and spiritual Vedic thought has always posed a serious

> challenge

> and dilemma for the Christian Church. For centuries, unable to

challenge

> the

> broader and systemic Hindu philosophy, Christian missionaries have

> resorted to

> deceptive mind manipulation strategies to trap and convert Hindus.

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > jyotirved@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > Thanks for the reply.

> >

> > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

with

> > commercial jyotishis>

> >

> > I have uploaded a file " sept_22_equinox_animation.gif

> > animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day " . It is the

courtesy

> > of " Astronomy_Activities_2009 " forum.

> >

> > That gif is the " picture of the latest equinox of September 22 " as

> > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt that

> > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about some

so

> > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as

precessional

> > year by " Vedic astrologers " !

> >

> > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual horoscopes,

and

> > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of precession was

> > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>

> >

> > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do

with

> > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about eighth

> > century AD!

> >

> > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy! Benaras

> > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya

Sidhanta by

> > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other than

> > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras

Hindu

> > University, even in twenty-first century, under the style " Vishva

> > Hindu Panchanga " !

> >

> > They are enamoured of the SS because it was " revealed by Surya

> > Bhagwan to Maya " as per the claims of Maya himself! After all, how

> > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most

monstrous

> > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some real

> > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, Benaras

> > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-model

> > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most

> > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!

> >

> > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis except

the

> > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are actually

> > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you

peruse

> > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya Sidhanta

> > mean elements for any year!

> >

> > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and uselss--

> > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of

Vikrami

> > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so called

> > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just have a

> > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they are

not

> > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as already

> > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct import

> > from Babylonia via Greeks.

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kauljee:

> > >

> > > Thanks for your reply.

> > >

> > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi Jantar

> > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional

effect,

> > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.

> > >

> > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute

> > with

> > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja Sawai Jay

> > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at

Benaras

> > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the Vikrami

> > Samvat.

> > >

> > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the

actual or

> > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar.

> > >

> > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church Based )

> > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their

reference

> > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which should

have

> > > actually gone to 57 BC.

> > >

> > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you

live.

> > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is not

> > Lahiri

> > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to European

> > Patri

> > > about Planetary Positions with time ).

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Anand M. Sharan

> > >

> > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.

> > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

precession.>

> > > >

> > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the

> > zodiac-

> > > --

> > > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian

> > > constellations

> > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,

> > wherefrom

> > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha,

Vrisha

> > > etc.

> > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.

> > > >

> > > > They are actually unequal constellations " recycled " as equal

> > > rashis

> > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that " Basic rashichakra " of

> > twelve

> > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to

four

> > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place on

> > the

> > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and will

> > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very

> > > Winter

> > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek

and

> > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other

eleven

> > > > astrological signs---they are all " aligned " to seasons, in

spite

> > of

> > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.

> > > >

> > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar,

> > Kumbha

> > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the

time

> > > of

> > > > the Rigveda when it had said " veda maaso dhrita vratah veda ya

> > > > upajayate... " or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that days

> > go

> > > on

> > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who

had

> > > > erected Jantar Mantar.

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > <amsharanx@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi

> > from

> > > the

> > > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on

his

> > > time.

> > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

> > precession.

> > > > >

> > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without

> > variability

> > > on

> > > > > this earth without subject to precession.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong.

His

> > > > Samrat

> > > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi

Yantra.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference

> > > point -

> > > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > >

> > > > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > Correction and

> > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could

see.

> > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

those.>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was

> > > aligned

> > > > to

> > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga

> > Jyotisha,

> > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the

> > > > mlechha!

> > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other

calendars of

> > > all

> > > > the

> > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to

> > seasons!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And seasons are " immune " to precession.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion

> > > emanated

> > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst

confounded

> > > by

> > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy,

least

> > of

> > > > all

> > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his

> > > predictive

> > > > > > gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known

as " Vedic

> > > > > > astrology " these days, with the result that we are

> > celebrating

> > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and

thereby

> > > > Vasanti

> > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and

Sharadiya

> > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly,

> > > > Dipavali

> > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28

> > this

> > > > year---

> > > > > > all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of precession!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become

> > much

> > > > worse

> > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed

> > > criterion

> > > > of

> > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to

> > > seasons

> > > > nor

> > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to

> > > > > > is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage

of

> > > > time,

> > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating

Uttarayana

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn

> > > Equinox,

> > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya

> > > Navratras

> > > > in

> > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must

> > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha

tyranny,

> > > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > name of precession corrections.

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > > > <amsharanx@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a

> > > collection

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally

> > > means

> > > > > > > > calculation

> > > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here

> > > > following

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical

> > > observatory.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with

traditional

> > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and

experienced

> > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as

one

> > > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > reasons,

> > > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and

> > other

> > > > aids

> > > > > > > > getting

> > > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > Correction

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could

see.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

those.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

>

--- End forwarded message ---

October 9, 2008

dear kaul ji

let us get back to reality than ur howling .

can we discuss vedas first ,u strt with first para of rig veda and let us do all vedas first and let us go tru frm begining and let me see first ur so called knoweldge and efficncy in vedas (offcource in between ur favrite points will come )

so all grp also will see it and they will strt blving it after some yrs .(also ur posting to 100s of other grps ) treat me as a ignorent person but if u twist any sanskrit i may catch it .

other wise after u r death there wont be any one to celebrate deepavali on ur dates ,now atleast u may b doing it if u r true to ur self .

regrds viajayaraghavan

ps--kashmir destroyed because of Vedic Astrology and kerala dont destroyed is it not a fun ??(even not gone under any foreign influence till brits kill tippu too ,that also a fraction of the place ) .even the ambassodor of alexander wrote to him that better we forget abt that place (as it was richest those days )and he wanted to capture there .so think wat may b the truth ,is it vedic astrology or some thing else .those who know abt it pls post here or wait for me to post it .

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Dear "lion" who howls like a jackal!> Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and filthy > language, I wish you have given even a single counter-argument > against any of the points that I have raised!> > Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---> astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then > what is the basis of your howling? > > Secondly, have you seen "Kashi Vishva Panchang" of Benaras Hindu > University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or > inaccuracy?> If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal > about it?> > Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about > Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your > personal views about them on the basis of what you have read/heard?> > I may put on record that I can "shout" louder than you, but such > dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are bent > on defending and spreading adharma in the name of "Vedic astrology".> > Dhanyavad.> A K Kaul> > , "lion_draco1983" > lion_draco1983@ wrote:> >> > Phony intellectuals, bogus academicians, mindless media agents, > pseudo> > secularists, mentally deranged pen pushers and bizarre liberals are> > hired by> > merciless Missionaries to work as paid subversive agents. They act > for> > mercenary> > Missionaries for mental misdirection, psychological warfare and to> > spread false> > stories. Your meaningless psycho babble clearly indicates that you > are> > an agent> > provocateur working for few Missionary breadcrumbs Christians > dismiss> > Hindu> > spiritual and cultural traditions. The Church clearly intent on> > liberating> > Hindus from their cultural roots and enslave them with rigid, > closed,> > divisive> > and linear Christian dogma. Missionaries with the closed, rigid and> > non-compromising dogma are obsessed with the idea of converting > Hindus> > who> > believe in pluralism, tolerance and the all inclusive Vedic > philosophy.> > Comprehensive and spiritual Vedic thought has always posed a serious> > challenge> > and dilemma for the Christian Church. For centuries, unable to > challenge> > the> > broader and systemic Hindu philosophy, Christian missionaries have> > resorted to> > deceptive mind manipulation strategies to trap and convert Hindus.> > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > Thanks for the reply.> > >> > > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute > with> > > commercial jyotishis>> > >> > > I have uploaded a file "sept_22_equinox_animation.gif> > > animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day". It is the > courtesy> > > of "Astronomy_Activities_2009" forum.> > >> > > That gif is the "picture of the latest equinox of September 22" as> > > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt that> > > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about some > so> > > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as > precessional> > > year by "Vedic astrologers"!> > >> > > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual horoscopes, > and> > > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of precession was> > > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>> > >> > > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do > with> > > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about eighth> > > century AD!> > >> > > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy! Benaras> > > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya > Sidhanta by> > > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other than> > > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras > Hindu> > > University, even in twenty-first century, under the style "Vishva> > > Hindu Panchanga"!> > >> > > They are enamoured of the SS because it was "revealed by Surya> > > Bhagwan to Maya" as per the claims of Maya himself! After all, how> > > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most > monstrous> > > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some real> > > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, Benaras> > > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-model> > > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most> > > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!> > >> > > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis except > the> > > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are actually> > > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you > peruse> > > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya Sidhanta> > > mean elements for any year!> > >> > > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and uselss--> > > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of > Vikrami> > > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so called> > > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just have a> > > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they are > not> > > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as already> > > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct import> > > from Babylonia via Greeks.> > > With regards,> > > A K Kaul> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx" <amsharanx@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Kauljee:> > > >> > > > Thanks for your reply.> > > >> > > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi Jantar> > > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional > effect,> > > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.> > > >> > > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your dispute> > > with> > > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja Sawai Jay> > > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at > Benaras> > > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the Vikrami> > > Samvat.> > > >> > > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the > actual or> > > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar.> > > >> > > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church Based )> > > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their > reference> > > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which should > have> > > > actually gone to 57 BC.> > > >> > > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you > live.> > > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is not> > > Lahiri> > > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to European> > > Patri> > > > about Planetary Positions with time ).> > > >> > > > Thanks.> > > >> > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > >> > > >> > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.> > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the > precession.>> > > > >> > > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of the> > > zodiac-> > > > --> > > > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian> > > > constellations> > > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,> > > wherefrom> > > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha, > Vrisha> > > > etc.> > > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.> > > > >> > > > > They are actually unequal constellations "recycled" as equal> > > > rashis> > > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that "Basic rashichakra" of> > > twelve> > > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned to > four> > > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took place on> > > the> > > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and will> > > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that very> > > > Winter> > > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by Greek > and> > > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other > eleven> > > > > astrological signs---they are all "aligned" to seasons, in > spite> > > of> > > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.> > > > >> > > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those Makar,> > > Kumbha> > > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in the > time> > > > of> > > > > the Rigveda when it had said "veda maaso dhrita vratah veda ya> > > > > upajayate..." or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that days> > > go> > > > on> > > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, who > had> > > > > erected Jantar Mantar.> > > > >> > > > > With regards,> > > > > A K Kaul> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx"> > > <amsharanx@>> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see Rashi> > > from> > > > the> > > > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based on > his> > > > time.> > > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the> > > precession.> > > > > >> > > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without> > > variability> > > > on> > > > > > this earth without subject to precession.> > > > > >> > > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was wrong. > His> > > > > Samrat> > > > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi > Yantra.> > > > > >> > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious reference> > > > point -> > > > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > >> > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen > Kaul"> > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession> > > > > Correction and> > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could > see.> > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in > those.>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar was> > > > aligned> > > > > to> > > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga> > > Jyotisha,> > > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the> > > > > mlechha!> > > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other > calendars of> > > > all> > > > > the> > > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to> > > seasons!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > And seasons are "immune" to precession.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana confusion> > > > emanated> > > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst > confounded> > > > by> > > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy, > least> > > of> > > > > all> > > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his> > > > predictive> > > > > > > gimmicks, which "science" is euphemistically known > as "Vedic> > > > > > > astrology" these days, with the result that we are> > > celebrating> > > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and > thereby> > > > > Vasanti> > > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and > Sharadiya> > > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! Similarly,> > > > > Dipavali> > > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of September 28> > > this> > > > > year---> > > > > > > all thanks to "Ayanamsha" on the shoulders of precession!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has become> > > much> > > > > worse> > > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed> > > > criterion> > > > > of> > > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related to> > > > seasons> > > > > nor> > > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related to> > > > > > > is "almighty" Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and fancies.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the passage > of> > > > > time,> > > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating > Uttarayana> > > on> > > > > the> > > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of Autumn> > > > Equinox,> > > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya> > > > Navratras> > > > > in> > > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. must> > > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha > tyranny,> > > > in> > > > > the> > > > > > > name of precession corrections.> > > > > > > With regards,> > > > > > > A K Kaul> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx"> > > > > <amsharanx@>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a> > > > collection> > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and literally> > > > means> > > > > > > > > calculation> > > > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention here> > > > > following> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical> > > > observatory.> > > > > The> > > > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with > traditional> > > > > Indian> > > > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and > experienced> > > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > > > in the> > > > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being cited as > one> > > > of> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > reasons,> > > > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets and> > > other> > > > > aids> > > > > > > > > getting> > > > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession> > > > > Correction> > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I could > see.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in > those.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > --- End forwarded message ---> > >> >>

October 11, 2008

Shri Vijayaraghavanji,

Namaskar!

<can we discuss vedas first ,u strt with first para of rig veda and

let us do all vedas first and let us go tru frm begining and let me

see first ur so called knoweldge and efficncy in vedas (offcource in

between ur favrite points will come )>

I am glad that you have questioned my credentials! That is the real

spirit of scientific enquiry e.g. if someone claims to be a " Vedic

astrologer " , we must certainly question him as to how many Vedas, if

any, together with their " angas " , if any, he/she has read!

Since you also declare yourself openly a " Vedic astrologer " , pl.

therefore, let the group know as to which Vedas, if any, from which

guru, if any, with what Bhashya, if any, besides what " angas " , if

any, you have read.

Pl. also reply the questions that I have put you in my post---which I

am repeating below, instead of obfuscating the issue. Do not evade

issues, as that will boomerang on you since then everybody will

say, " bhayad-ranad-uparatm... " i.e. " A coward--he is just running

away from the battle-field " .

Dhanyavad

AKK

*** ***** ****** ****** ***** ***

My questions which I have asked in the post under reply are:

" Dear " lion " who howls like a jackal!

Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and filthy

language, I wish you had given even a single counter-argument

against any of the points that I have raised!

Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---

astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then

what is the basis of your howling?

Secondly, have you seen " Kashi Vishva Panchang " of Benaras Hindu

University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or

inaccuracy?

If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal

about it?

Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about

Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your

personal views about them on the basis of what you have read/heard?

I may put on record that I can " shout " louder than you, but such

dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are bent

on defending and spreading adharma in the name of " Vedic astrology " .

**** ******* ******* ****

, " lion_draco1983 "

<lion_draco1983 wrote:

>

> dear kaul ji

>

> let us get back to reality than ur howling .

>

> can we discuss vedas first ,u strt with first para of rig veda and

let

> us do all vedas first and let us go tru frm begining and let me see

> first ur so called knoweldge and efficncy in vedas (offcource in

between

> ur favrite points will come )

>

> so all grp also will see it and they will strt blving it after

some

> yrs .(also ur posting to 100s of other grps ) treat me as a ignorent

> person but if u twist any sanskrit i may catch it .

>

> other wise after u r death there wont be any one to celebrate

deepavali

> on ur dates ,now atleast u may b doing it if u r true to ur self .

>

> regrds viajayaraghavan

>

> ps--kashmir destroyed because of Vedic Astrology and kerala dont

> destroyed is it not a fun ??(even not gone under any foreign

influence

> till brits kill tippu too ,that also a fraction of the

place ) .even the

> ambassodor of alexander wrote to him that better we forget abt that

> place (as it was richest those days )and he wanted to capture

there .so

> think wat may b the truth ,is it vedic astrology or some thing else

> [)] .those who know abt it pls post here or wait for me to post

it .

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear " lion " who howls like a jackal!

> > Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and

filthy

> > language, I wish you have given even a single counter-argument

> > against any of the points that I have raised!

> >

> > Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---

> > astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then

> > what is the basis of your howling?

> >

> > Secondly, have you seen " Kashi Vishva Panchang " of Benaras Hindu

> > University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or

> > inaccuracy?

> > If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal

> > about it?

> >

> > Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about

> > Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your

> > personal views about them on the basis of what you have

read/heard?

> >

> > I may put on record that I can " shout " louder than you, but such

> > dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are

bent

> > on defending and spreading adharma in the name of " Vedic

astrology " .

> >

> > Dhanyavad.

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > , " lion_draco1983 "

> > lion_draco1983@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Phony intellectuals, bogus academicians, mindless media agents,

> > pseudo

> > > secularists, mentally deranged pen pushers and bizarre liberals

are

> > > hired by

> > > merciless Missionaries to work as paid subversive agents. They

act

> > for

> > > mercenary

> > > Missionaries for mental misdirection, psychological warfare and

to

> > > spread false

> > > stories. Your meaningless psycho babble clearly indicates that

you

> > are

> > > an agent

> > > provocateur working for few Missionary breadcrumbs Christians

> > dismiss

> > > Hindu

> > > spiritual and cultural traditions. The Church clearly intent on

> > > liberating

> > > Hindus from their cultural roots and enslave them with rigid,

> > closed,

> > > divisive

> > > and linear Christian dogma. Missionaries with the closed, rigid

and

> > > non-compromising dogma are obsessed with the idea of converting

> > Hindus

> > > who

> > > believe in pluralism, tolerance and the all inclusive Vedic

> > philosophy.

> > > Comprehensive and spiritual Vedic thought has always posed a

serious

> > > challenge

> > > and dilemma for the Christian Church. For centuries, unable to

> > challenge

> > > the

> > > broader and systemic Hindu philosophy, Christian missionaries

have

> > > resorted to

> > > deceptive mind manipulation strategies to trap and convert

Hindus.

> > >

> > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > > jyotirved@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > Thanks for the reply.

> > > >

> > > > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your

dispute

> > with

> > > > commercial jyotishis>

> > > >

> > > > I have uploaded a file " sept_22_equinox_animation.gif

> > > > animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day " . It is the

> > courtesy

> > > > of " Astronomy_Activities_2009 " forum.

> > > >

> > > > That gif is the " picture of the latest equinox of September

22 " as

> > > > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt

that

> > > > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about

some

> > so

> > > > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as

> > precessional

> > > > year by " Vedic astrologers " !

> > > >

> > > > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual

horoscopes,

> > and

> > > > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of

precession was

> > > > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>

> > > >

> > > > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do

> > with

> > > > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about

eighth

> > > > century AD!

> > > >

> > > > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy!

Benaras

> > > > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya

> > Sidhanta by

> > > > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other

than

> > > > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras

> > Hindu

> > > > University, even in twenty-first century, under the

style " Vishva

> > > > Hindu Panchanga " !

> > > >

> > > > They are enamoured of the SS because it was " revealed by Surya

> > > > Bhagwan to Maya " as per the claims of Maya himself! After

all, how

> > > > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most

> > monstrous

> > > > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some

real

> > > > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture,

Benaras

> > > > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-

model

> > > > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most

> > > > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!

> > > >

> > > > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis

except

> > the

> > > > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are

actually

> > > > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you

> > peruse

> > > > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya

Sidhanta

> > > > mean elements for any year!

> > > >

> > > > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and

uselss--

> > > > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of

> > Vikrami

> > > > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so

called

> > > > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just

have a

> > > > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they

are

> > not

> > > > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as

already

> > > > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct

import

> > > > from Babylonia via Greeks.

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kauljee:

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for your reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi

Jantar

> > > > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional

> > effect,

> > > > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your

dispute

> > > > with

> > > > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja

Sawai Jay

> > > > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at

> > Benaras

> > > > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the

Vikrami

> > > > Samvat.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the

> > actual or

> > > > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar.

> > > > >

> > > > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church

Based )

> > > > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their

> > reference

> > > > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which

should

> > have

> > > > > actually gone to 57 BC.

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you

> > live.

> > > > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is

not

> > > > Lahiri

> > > > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to

European

> > > > Patri

> > > > > about Planetary Positions with time ).

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > >

> > > > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.

> > > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

> > precession.>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of

the

> > > > zodiac-

> > > > > --

> > > > > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian

> > > > > constellations

> > > > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,

> > > > wherefrom

> > > > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha,

> > Vrisha

> > > > > etc.

> > > > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They are actually unequal constellations " recycled " as

equal

> > > > > rashis

> > > > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that " Basic rashichakra " of

> > > > twelve

> > > > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned

to

> > four

> > > > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took

place on

> > > > the

> > > > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and

will

> > > > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that

very

> > > > > Winter

> > > > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by

Greek

> > and

> > > > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other

> > eleven

> > > > > > astrological signs---they are all " aligned " to seasons, in

> > spite

> > > > of

> > > > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those

Makar,

> > > > Kumbha

> > > > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in

the

> > time

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the Rigveda when it had said " veda maaso dhrita vratah

veda ya

> > > > > > upajayate... " or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that

days

> > > > go

> > > > > on

> > > > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh,

who

> > had

> > > > > > erected Jantar Mantar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > > >

> > > > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > > > <amsharanx@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see

Rashi

> > > > from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based

on

> > his

> > > > > time.

> > > > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the

> > > > precession.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without

> > > > variability

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > this earth without subject to precession.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was

wrong.

> > His

> > > > > > Samrat

> > > > > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi

> > Yantra.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious

reference

> > > > > point -

> > > > > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen

> > Kaul "

> > > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,

> > > > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession

> > > > > > Correction and

> > > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I

could

> > see.

> > > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

> > those.>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar

was

> > > > > aligned

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga

> > > > Jyotisha,

> > > > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya

the

> > > > > > mlechha!

> > > > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other

> > calendars of

> > > > > all

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to

> > > > seasons!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And seasons are " immune " to precession.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana

confusion

> > > > > emanated

> > > > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst

> > confounded

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy,

> > least

> > > > of

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his

> > > > > predictive

> > > > > > > > gimmicks, which " science " is euphemistically known

> > as " Vedic

> > > > > > > > astrology " these days, with the result that we are

> > > > celebrating

> > > > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and

> > thereby

> > > > > > Vasanti

> > > > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and

> > Sharadiya

> > > > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu!

Similarly,

> > > > > > Dipavali

> > > > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of

September 28

> > > > this

> > > > > > year---

> > > > > > > > all thanks to " Ayanamsha " on the shoulders of

precession!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has

become

> > > > much

> > > > > > worse

> > > > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed

> > > > > criterion

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related

to

> > > > > seasons

> > > > > > nor

> > > > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related

to

> > > > > > > > is " almighty " Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and

fancies.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the

passage

> > of

> > > > > > time,

> > > > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating

> > Uttarayana

> > > > on

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of

Autumn

> > > > > Equinox,

> > > > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya

> > > > > Navratras

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc.

must

> > > > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha

> > tyranny,

> > > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > name of precession corrections.

> > > > > > > > With regards,

> > > > > > > > A K Kaul

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > > > > > <amsharanx@>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a

> > > > > collection

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and

literally

> > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > > calculation

> > > > > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention

here

> > > > > > following

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical

> > > > > observatory.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with

> > traditional

> > > > > > Indian

> > > > > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and

> > experienced

> > > > > > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being

cited as

> > one

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > reasons,

> > > > > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets

and

> > > > other

> > > > > > aids

> > > > > > > > > > getting

> > > > > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have

Precession

> > > > > > Correction

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I

could

> > see.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in

> > those.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 11, 2008

dear Kaul ji

Dont put words in my mouth ,did i ever told u that i am vedic astrologer ??or its is part of ur same propaanda who ever try to answer u or question u just calling them as biggest astrologers of 21st century and asks ur same set of questions which pre planned ??

If u need my answer i asked u some thing ,u proov first that u deserve it ,other wise i cannot answer u any of ur doubts arising out of ur ignorence / adamance to see the truth or accept it .

i asked u to see a chart and proov ,vedic astrology principles which u were practising were wrong and not working and it was creation some Novel/katha writers --but u run away .

i asked u to show ur knowledge is vedas by giving ur bashya ( offcource i will double check it and u cannot get away by giving ur missionary translations ,so both of our skills will b testing here ). sure i am a novice but can diffrntiate right and wrong .

pls think i hav no time like u coolies who r paid for this purpose .

so come to core of the matter first .

or howl but pls use ur new changed name

regrds vijayaraghavan

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Vijayaraghavanji,> Namaskar!> <can we discuss vedas first ,u strt with first para of rig veda and > let us do all vedas first and let us go tru frm begining and let me > see first ur so called knoweldge and efficncy in vedas (offcource in > between ur favrite points will come )>> > I am glad that you have questioned my credentials! That is the real > spirit of scientific enquiry e.g. if someone claims to be a "Vedic > astrologer", we must certainly question him as to how many Vedas, if > any, together with their "angas", if any, he/she has read!> Since you also declare yourself openly a "Vedic astrologer", pl. > therefore, let the group know as to which Vedas, if any, from which > guru, if any, with what Bhashya, if any, besides what "angas", if > any, you have read.> > Pl. also reply the questions that I have put you in my post---which I > am repeating below, instead of obfuscating the issue. Do not evade > issues, as that will boomerang on you since then everybody will > say, "bhayad-ranad-uparatm..." i.e. "A coward--he is just running > away from the battle-field".> Dhanyavad> AKK> *** ***** ****** ****** ***** ***> My questions which I have asked in the post under reply are:> > "Dear "lion" who howls like a jackal!> Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and filthy> language, I wish you had given even a single counter-argument> against any of the points that I have raised!> Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---> astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then > what is the basis of your howling?> > Secondly, have you seen "Kashi Vishva Panchang" of Benaras Hindu> University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or> inaccuracy?> If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal> about it?> > Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about> Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your> personal views about them on the basis of what you have read/heard?> > I may put on record that I can "shout" louder than you, but such> dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are bent> on defending and spreading adharma in the name of "Vedic astrology".> **** ******* ******* ****> > , "lion_draco1983" > lion_draco1983@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear kaul ji> > > > > > > > let us get back to reality than ur howling .> > > > > > > > can we discuss vedas first ,u strt with first para of rig veda and > let> > us do all vedas first and let us go tru frm begining and let me see> > first ur so called knoweldge and efficncy in vedas (offcource in > between> > ur favrite points will come )> > > > > > > > so all grp also will see it and they will strt blving it after > some> > yrs .(also ur posting to 100s of other grps ) treat me as a ignorent> > person but if u twist any sanskrit i may catch it .> > > > > > > > other wise after u r death there wont be any one to celebrate > deepavali> > on ur dates ,now atleast u may b doing it if u r true to ur self .> > > > > > > > regrds viajayaraghavan> > > > ps--kashmir destroyed because of Vedic Astrology and kerala dont> > destroyed is it not a fun ??(even not gone under any foreign > influence> > till brits kill tippu too ,that also a fraction of the > place ) .even the> > ambassodor of alexander wrote to him that better we forget abt that> > place (as it was richest those days )and he wanted to capture > there .so> > think wat may b the truth ,is it vedic astrology or some thing else > > [)] .those who know abt it pls post here or wait for me to post > it .> > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear "lion" who howls like a jackal!> > > Instead of eating such long yarns and using such obnoxious and > filthy> > > language, I wish you have given even a single counter-argument> > > against any of the points that I have raised!> > >> > > Have you seen Jantar-Mantar? If yes, what type of Rashis---> > > astrological signs---does it depict? If you have not seen it, then> > > what is the basis of your howling?> > >> > > Secondly, have you seen "Kashi Vishva Panchang" of Benaras Hindu> > > University? If yes, what are your views about its accuracy or> > > inaccuracy?> > > If you have not seen it, why are you again howling like a jackal> > > about it?> > >> > > Even if you have not seen them but have read/heard something about> > > Jantar Mantar and Kashi Vishva Panchang of BHU, what are your> > > personal views about them on the basis of what you have > read/heard?> > >> > > I may put on record that I can "shout" louder than you, but such> > > dharma-vipareeta shouting behoves only people like you who are > bent> > > on defending and spreading adharma in the name of "Vedic > astrology".> > >> > > Dhanyavad.> > > A K Kaul> > >> > > , "lion_draco1983"> > > lion_draco1983@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Phony intellectuals, bogus academicians, mindless media agents,> > > pseudo> > > > secularists, mentally deranged pen pushers and bizarre liberals > are> > > > hired by> > > > merciless Missionaries to work as paid subversive agents. They > act> > > for> > > > mercenary> > > > Missionaries for mental misdirection, psychological warfare and > to> > > > spread false> > > > stories. Your meaningless psycho babble clearly indicates that > you> > > are> > > > an agent> > > > provocateur working for few Missionary breadcrumbs Christians> > > dismiss> > > > Hindu> > > > spiritual and cultural traditions. The Church clearly intent on> > > > liberating> > > > Hindus from their cultural roots and enslave them with rigid,> > > closed,> > > > divisive> > > > and linear Christian dogma. Missionaries with the closed, rigid > and> > > > non-compromising dogma are obsessed with the idea of converting> > > Hindus> > > > who> > > > believe in pluralism, tolerance and the all inclusive Vedic> > > philosophy.> > > > Comprehensive and spiritual Vedic thought has always posed a > serious> > > > challenge> > > > and dilemma for the Christian Church. For centuries, unable to> > > challenge> > > > the> > > > broader and systemic Hindu philosophy, Christian missionaries > have> > > > resorted to> > > > deceptive mind manipulation strategies to trap and convert > Hindus.> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > > > > jyotirved@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > > > Thanks for the reply.> > > > >> > > > > <Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your > dispute> > > with> > > > > commercial jyotishis>> > > > >> > > > > I have uploaded a file "sept_22_equinox_animation.gif> > > > > animation of smrat yantra shadow on equinox day". It is the> > > courtesy> > > > > of "Astronomy_Activities_2009" forum.> > > > >> > > > > That gif is the "picture of the latest equinox of September > 22" as> > > > > per Samrat Yantra! It should, thus not leave anybody in doubt > that> > > > > Jantar Mantar is talking about a seasonal year and not about > some> > > so> > > > > called nirayana year, which is euphemistcially known as> > > precessional> > > > > year by "Vedic astrologers"!> > > > >> > > > > <This is because Raja Sawai Jay Singh was for actual > horoscopes,> > > and> > > > > had his education at Benaras where the awareness of > precession was> > > > > there due to the Vikrami Samvat.>> > > > >> > > > > Vikrami Samvat is an imginary Smavat/era and had nothing to do> > > with> > > > > any Vikramidtya. It did not have any existence till about > eighth> > > > > century AD!> > > > >> > > > > You are confusing Benarasi Jyotish with actual astronomy! > Benaras> > > > > jyotishis go even today by a panchanga based on the Surya> > > Sidhanta by> > > > > Maya the mlechha and it is published every year by none other > than> > > > > one of the most famous universities in the world viz. Benaras> > > Hindu> > > > > University, even in twenty-first century, under the > style "Vishva> > > > > Hindu Panchanga"!> > > > >> > > > > They are enamoured of the SS because it was "revealed by Surya> > > > > Bhagwan to Maya" as per the claims of Maya himself! After > all, how> > > > > could Maya tell a lie! As such, even if the SS is the most> > > monstrous> > > > > astronomical work which appears to have been compiled by some > real> > > > > thug to destory the cultural fabric of the Vedic culture, > Benaras> > > > > jyotishis are still under hypnotic stupor/grip of their roll-> model> > > > > viz. Varahamihira, since he had said that the SS was the most> > > > > accurate work (Spashta-taro Savitrah!)!> > > > >> > > > > As such, for Benaras jyotishis there are no other rashis > except> > > the> > > > > ones advocated by the Surya Sidhanta! Lahiri rashis are > actually> > > > > Surya Sidhanta rashis in disguise, which will be clear if you> > > peruse> > > > > the Rashtriya Panchanga mean elements vis-a-vis the Surya > Sidhanta> > > > > mean elements for any year!> > > > >> > > > > Nirrayan rashis are niradhar---baseless, meaningless and > uselss--> > > > > however hard we may try to justify them on the shoulders of> > > Vikrami> > > > > era or precesional corections! For that matter, even the so > called> > > > > sayana rashis are astronomically meaningless, but they just > have a> > > > > sort of fixed alignment towards seasons! However, even they > are> > > not> > > > > Vedic since there are no rashis in the Vedas, because as > already> > > > > clarified hundreds of times, Mesha etc. rashis are a direct > import> > > > > from Babylonia via Greeks.> > > > > With regards,> > > > > A K Kaul> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx" > <amsharanx@>> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Kauljee:> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks for your reply.> > > > > >> > > > > > I have myself seen Rashis or lines engraved in the Delhi > Jantar> > > > > > Mantar. Once they are engraved, there will be precessional> > > effect,> > > > > > and hence deviation from the seasonal variation.> > > > > >> > > > > > Actually, the Jantar Mantar instrument will settle your > dispute> > > > > with> > > > > > commercial jyotishis, in my view. This is because Raja > Sawai Jay> > > > > > Singh was for actual horoscopes, and had his education at> > > Benaras> > > > > > where the awareness of precession was there due to the > Vikrami> > > > > Samvat.> > > > > >> > > > > > The Saka samvat people never had this awareness about the> > > actual or> > > > > > historical rashis used in the European Calendar.> > > > > >> > > > > > The concept of Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are Firangi ( Church > Based )> > > > > > concept not actual Hindu Concept in my view because their> > > reference> > > > > > point goes back to 260 AD plus or minus 25 years which > should> > > have> > > > > > actually gone to 57 BC.> > > > > >> > > > > > Therefore, pl do visit the Jantar Mantar in Delhi where you> > > live.> > > > > > Sawai Jay Singh followed the Hindu Jyotish Vidya which is > not> > > > > Lahiri> > > > > > concept - a gift from Angrezi Hukumat ( they refer to > European> > > > > Patri> > > > > > about Planetary Positions with time ).> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > >> > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen > Kaul"> > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > > > <That rashi division had to be based on his time.> > > > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the> > > precession.>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There are actually no rashis---twelve equal divisions of > the> > > > > zodiac-> > > > > > --> > > > > > > - whether astronomically or in the Vedas. Babylonian> > > > > > constellations> > > > > > > became astrological signs for Greece and other countries,> > > > > wherefrom> > > > > > > they were imported into India, under the guise of Mesha,> > > Vrisha> > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > Rashis, through the Surya Sidahnta of Maya the mleccha.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > They are actually unequal constellations "recycled" as > equal> > > > > > rashis> > > > > > > by astrologers/jyotishis. Even that "Basic rashichakra" of> > > > > twelve> > > > > > > equal divisions with constellational namesake are aligned > to> > > four> > > > > > > seasons of the Western calendar! Winter solstice took > place on> > > > > the> > > > > > > shortest day of the year even ten thousand years back and > will> > > > > > > continue to do so ten thousand years hence! It was that > very> > > > > > Winter> > > > > > > solstice that was and is known as Capricorn ingress by > Greek> > > and> > > > > > > Western astrologers. Same is the case with all the other> > > eleven> > > > > > > astrological signs---they are all "aligned" to seasons, in> > > spite> > > > > of> > > > > > > being twelve imaginary divisions.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Since they are aligned to seasons, as such even those > Makar,> > > > > Kumbha> > > > > > > etc. rashis are immune to precession---whether it was in > the> > > time> > > > > > of> > > > > > > the Rigveda when it had said "veda maaso dhrita vratah > veda ya> > > > > > > upajayate..." or the Vedanga Jyotisha which had said that > days> > > > > go> > > > > > on> > > > > > > increasing from the day of Uttarayana or Sawai Jai Singh, > who> > > had> > > > > > > erected Jantar Mantar.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > With regards,> > > > > > > A K Kaul> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx"> > > > > <amsharanx@>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sawai Jay Singh has an instrument where one could see > Rashi> > > > > from> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > shadow at sun rise. That rashi division had to be based > on> > > his> > > > > > time.> > > > > > > > Obviously, it would not be true to-day because of the> > > > > precession.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > One can not build permanent brick structures without> > > > > variability> > > > > > on> > > > > > > > this earth without subject to precession.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am not saying that what he built for his time was > wrong.> > > His> > > > > > > Samrat> > > > > > > > Yantra ( clock )would be o.k. even to-day but not Rashi> > > Yantra.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Lahiri Ayanamsha etc are relative to a fictitious > reference> > > > > > point -> > > > > > > > so, how one would predict any thing using it ?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > hinducivilization , "Avtar Krishen> > > Kaul"> > > > > > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Dr. Sharan,> > > > > > > > > Namaskar!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > <Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have Precession> > > > > > > Correction and> > > > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I > could> > > see.> > > > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in> > > those.>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Vedic calendar and thus the indigenous Hindu calendar > was> > > > > > aligned> > > > > > > to> > > > > > > > > seasons. as is clear from all the Vedas, the Vedanga> > > > > Jyotisha,> > > > > > > > > Puranas, Itihasas and even the Surya Sidhanta by Maya > the> > > > > > > mlechha!> > > > > > > > > IMHO, except for Islmaic calendar, all the other> > > calendars of> > > > > > all> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > countries/religions the world over are also aligned to> > > > > seasons!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > And seasons are "immune" to precession.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This Ayanamsha and thereby nirayana and sayana > confusion> > > > > > emanated> > > > > > > > > from the Surya Sidhanta, which confusion was worst> > > confounded> > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > Varahamihira who did not known even ABC of astronomy,> > > least> > > > > of> > > > > > > all> > > > > > > > > anything about precession and Ayanamsha etc. etc.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > We are reaping the fruits of having succumbed to his> > > > > > predictive> > > > > > > > > gimmicks, which "science" is euphemistically known> > > as "Vedic> > > > > > > > > astrology" these days, with the result that we are> > > > > celebrating> > > > > > > > > Uttarayana on January 15, Dakshniayana on July 15 and> > > thereby> > > > > > > Vasanti> > > > > > > > > navratras in almost the fag end of Vasatna Ritu and> > > Sharadiya> > > > > > > > > Navratras in almost the fag end of Sharat Ritu! > Similarly,> > > > > > > Dipavali> > > > > > > > > is being celebrated on October 28 instead of > September 28> > > > > this> > > > > > > year---> > > > > > > > > all thanks to "Ayanamsha" on the shoulders of > precession!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thus Hindu calendar has become a big joke! It has > become> > > > > much> > > > > > > worse> > > > > > > > > than Islamic calendar since at least they have a fixed> > > > > > criterion> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > synodic months. But Hindu calendar is neither related > to> > > > > > seasons> > > > > > > nor> > > > > > > > > to some Star nor to any Vedic lore! All it is related > to> > > > > > > > > is "almighty" Lahiri and Lahiriwalas' whims and > fancies.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks to these Lahiris and Lahiriwalas, with the > passage> > > of> > > > > > > time,> > > > > > > > > after a few more centuries, we will be clebrating> > > Uttarayana> > > > > on> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > day of Vernal Equinox, Dakshinayana on the day of > Autumn> > > > > > Equinox,> > > > > > > > > thereby Vasanti Navatras in Grishma Ritu and Sharadiya> > > > > > Navratras> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > Shishira Ritu and so on.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thus the famous Jantar Mantar at Jaipur or Delhi etc. > must> > > > > > > > > mercifully be spared from the vagaries of Ayanamsha> > > tyranny,> > > > > > in> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > name of precession corrections.> > > > > > > > > With regards,> > > > > > > > > A K Kaul> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > hinducivilization , "amsharanx"> > > > > > > <amsharanx@>> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Jaipur's world famous Jantar Mantar, which is a> > > > > > collection> > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > > > architectural astronomical instruments and > literally> > > > > > means> > > > > > > > > > > calculation> > > > > > > > > > > > instrument, is attracting wide public attention > here> > > > > > > following> > > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > > ongoing renovation at the ancient astronomical> > > > > > observatory.> > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > > > > > renovation work has not gone down well with> > > traditional> > > > > > > Indian> > > > > > > > > > > > astrologers. Absence of knowledgeable and> > > experienced> > > > > > > > > astrologers> > > > > > > > > > > in the> > > > > > > > > > > > supervisory or advisory committee is being > cited as> > > one> > > > > > of> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > > reasons,> > > > > > > > > > > > which has led to the vintage historical gadgets > and> > > > > other> > > > > > > aids> > > > > > > > > > > getting> > > > > > > > > > > > disturbed in the renovation process.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18066> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Actually, those Jantar Mantars do not have > Precession> > > > > > > Correction> > > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > are frozen in the times of Sawai Jay Singh - as I > could> > > see.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Therefore, the seasonal error will be there even in> > > those.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Anand M. Sharan> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --- End forwarded message ---> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

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Fwd: Astrologers cry foul over renovation of world famous Jantar Mantar

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