Fwd: Vedic astrology---the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

October 18, 2008

WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

Dear Shri Shaas Ruzicka,

I am very late in replying your post. But, better late than never!

Actually, I had to check, recheck and cross-check the references

pointed out by you. Hence the delay.

Let me answer, in some detail, your points one by one:

Sh-Ru:

< Jyotish IS often mentioned in the Vedic Literature. Even in, as

Indologist would say, the oldest

works - in the Upanishads. So there is no necessity to doubt the

authenticity of Jyotish from that side.>

AKK: Who has doubted the authenticity of " jyoitsh " in the Vedas?

It is, however, a habit of " Vedic astrologers " to twist statements in

such a manner as to leave a person confused! Pl. read my words

carefully once again, which I am quoting here from that very post

which you have replied. These words are " Pl. ponder (think!) on the

topic of the discussion which is `Vedic astrology'--the greatest

fraud on the Vedas! And by `Vedic astrology', the fad and fraud of

predictive gimmicks is meant, obviously! "

Though I am sure you do not need a further paraphrase of such a

simple sentence to understand as to what it means but let me restate

it even then that Jyotish does not mean predictive gimmicks but

astronomy in the Vedas! Is that clear now?

Sh-Ru:

< First you state that Jyotish is not mentioned in the Vedas,

Upanishads, etc. - now you qualify it by saying that if Jyotish is

mentioned than only in a sense that fits you.>

As clarified above, on the other hand, I would say that you are

trying to twist the meaning " in a sense that fits you " !

Sh-Ru:

< Difficult to argue about it then.>

AKK: Why? Naturally, because you have no proofs in favour of your

arguments that there are predictive gimmicks in the Vedas!

Sh-Ru: < What is this discussion?>

AKK:

This discussion is about the fact that you have to accept the

challenge and quote the Vedic mantras that refer to Mesha, Vrisha,

Mithuna etc. rashis in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---in

fact any indigenous astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of

Maya the mlechha! That is the " jyotisha " you have " vowed " to prove

in the Vedas! Pl. do keep your vow instead of beating about the

bush! Or otherwise just concede the point that you have not been able

to prove even the ghost of " Vedic astrology " in the Vedas!

Sh-Ru:

< OK, let's move to Puranas, the " Illustrations of the Vedas " : Here

is an example - you might also dislike or continue trying to ignore -

where the principles of Jyotish are described:>

AKK

Glad that you have touched even this thread to rectify several

misunderstandings about the pauranic jyotish!

Sh-Ru:

< Shrimad Bhagavatam Mahapurana 10:8:5 where Nanda speaks to Garga,

the Purohit of the Yadus: " …A treatise of Jyotish from which proceeds

the knowledge of supersensuous phenomena and through which man can

know

the cause as well as its effect has been directly composed by you. " >

AKK:

It took me considerable time to get to grips with this shloka of

Bhagavata Mahapurana. The original sholka is

" jyotishaam ayanam sakshyad yat taj-jnyanam ateendriyam

Praneetam bhavata yena puman veda paravaram " .

I must have read the translation that you have given at least half a

dozen times and compared it with the original Sanskrit shloka!

What is surprising is that even the translation quoted by you does

not point to any predictive gimmicks even with a barge pole! You

have said " jyotish from which proceeds the knowledge of super-

sensuous phenomena " ---what has that to do with predictive gimmicks

which are usually indulged in by jugglers who were known as nakshatra-

soochis in ancient India and who call themselves " Vedic astrologers "

these days? In fact " super-sensuous phenomena " could and should mean

phenomena like eclipses because you cannot measure them with your

senses!

You have also translated the original Sanskrit words " paravara "

as " cause and effect " . Paravara is actually a conjunct word---parah

+ avarah (paraschai-avarashcheti paravarah). They cannot be

interpreted by any stretch of imagination as " cause and effect " .

Para actually means the best, the Acme, the ultimate and avara is an

antonym of the same! How can these two words connote " cause and

effect " . Even if we somehow or the other take them as meaning " cause

and effect " how does that prove that these two words refer to

predictive gimmicks?

You claim to have read the Mbh. But you do not appear to know that

in that work also Garga Rishi has been referred to as an astronomer

(instead of some predictive astrologer!) who was using some ghati-

yantra to mark the passage of time!

Then coming to the same chapter viz. Chapter eight of Tenth Book of

Srimad Bhagavata to which you have referred, if Nanda had really

meant horoscopy by Jyotish in his praise to Garga, he would certainly

have asked Garga to discuss the janma-patri of Bhagwan Krishna!

However, not only in that adhyaya, but even in the entire Bhagavata –

nay in all the puranas, for that matter, we do not find any

references to any planets, or any discussions about any planetary

positions of the horoscope of Bhagwan Krishna even by mistake! No

mention of the word " jataka " or " janma-patri " etc. at all in any of

the Puranas!

On the other hand, in the same Srimad Bhagavata, same chapter, and

just the next shloka, Nanda says to Garga Rishi, " You are the

foremost of the knowers of Veda and are thus qualified to perform the

purifactory rites (such as the naming ceremony) with respect to these

two boys " . (Gita Press translation)

Obviously, it was for that purpose of Namakrana etc. that Nanda had

said to Garga that he (Garga) had prepared a treatise on jyotisha---

may be something like the Vedanga Jyotisha of Acharya Lagadha---to

determine suitable timings for Vedic rituals etc.

It is " Vedic astrologers " who are erecting fancy horoscopes for

Bhagwan Krishna, with innumerable Ayanamshas, and different dates and

timings, without having read either the Puranas or the Mbh etc.

themselves!

The imagination of " Vedic astrologers " has really has run riot, since

they have just created fantastic planetary positions that fit (sic!)

the feats of Bhagwan Krishna (witness " Notable Horoscopes " by late

B. V. Raman and Lord Kirhsna's horoscope in an old issue of Hinduism

Today by Arun Bansal). Most of the jyotishis do not have even this

much of common sense (they have actually height of Tamoguni budhi!)

that it is impossible to erect horoscopes of Bhagwan Krishna or Rama

etc. since you cannot subjugate the Master of Universes to the

suzeranity of puny Mangal and Shani!

The jyotishis who claim that Mangal and Shani etc. or Sade Sati or

Rahu Dasha do affect even the Avataras, must get their heads

examined! But on second thoughts, it must be the gullible people who

believe such frauds who must get their heads examines since

the " Vedic astrologers " are doing their " profession " —---trying to

make a fool of a common man by claiming that even divine Incarnations

are subject to planetary fiats---and they are succeeding in it!

However, surprisingly, no jyotishi has quoted any source for arriving

at that date and time of Bhagwan Krishna---Must have been

through " supersensuous phenomena!---real jyotish, indeed!

Thus " Jyotishaam ayanam " here (in the Srimad Bhagavatam) does not

mean a treatise on astrology but a treatise on soli-lunar astronomy

like that of the VJ! We must not forget that in olden times, in

around 1000 BCE, it was not an easy job to calculate even the mean

longitudes of the sun and the moon for calculating tithi, nakshatra

etc. leave alone the eclipses!

Sh-Ru:

< You say > Bhagwan Krishna did not advise him to consult some

soothsayer!

<What is this for an argument. Sri Krishna gave not an advise to

consult a Jyotishi, so what. Does this logically mean that Jyotish

does not exist? Please rethink you logic.

Sri Krishna did not mention 1 + 1 equals 2 but that does not mean

that it was not existing even in His time.>

AKK

This again points to the habit of twisting facts! I wonder whether

you have really read the Gita---a part of the Mbh.! Arjuna had said

specifically, " I do not know whether Kauravas or Pandavas will win

the war… " . Don't you think that it is clear from this shloka that

neither Kauravas nor Pandavas had consulted any soothsayer---for the

simple reason that there were no soothsayers around then! Further,

if there had been any rashi-based predictive gimmicks during the time

of Mbh. war, there certainly would have been at least a mention of

Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Mbh itself!

Then again, example is better than precept---but maybe that does not

hold good for " Vedic astrologers " .

Bhagwan Krishna is the Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent Lord of

Universes! That means that He knew the outcome of the war before

hand! But why did He say to Arjuna, " If you get killed, you will go

to the heavens, and if you win the war, you will be the master of the

entire globe " , especially when Arjuna had specifically said, " I do

not know whether we will win the war or the Kauravas " . Why did He

not " declare " the result before hand---just as these days Brihat

Samhita or Narpati Jaya-chariya etc. is supposed to do? IT MEANS

THAT NOBODY IS AUTHORISED TO DECLARE BHAVISHYA BEFOREHAND! Or do you

want " Vedic astrologers " to be an exception to that rule, especially

since they do not know even ABC of the Vedas as otherwise they would

not have christened predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " ?

Sh-Ru

< Jyotish, the light of higher order, is here, to give you knowledge.

And the whole knowledge, nay, the whole universe is contained in a

grain of sand. Jyotish is just a mathematical way of uncovering the

whole in the point (in the point of birth, in this case>

AKK

For god's sake, do come out of fool's paradise and cut this crap out

from your discussions!

All the panchangas in India are based on fundamentally wrong

fundamental arguments and circumnavigate even today around the Surya

Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---euphemistically known as Lahiri

Ayanamsha these days! It appears you do not know even ABC of the

Pancha Sidhantika or any other sidhanta or even the Grahalaghava!

EVEN A PRIMARY SCHOOL LEVEL STUDENT HAS A MUCH BETTER COMMAND OVER

GEOGRAPHY THESE DAYS than those " jyotisha shastras " ---which " predict "

(calculate!) Uttarayana (Winter Solstice) on any day except for the

shortest day of the year, Dakshinayana (summer Solstice) on any day

but the longest day of the year and so on! All this jargon

like " jyotish is just a mathematical way of uncovering the whole in

the point (in the point of birth, in this case) " etc. etc. maybe a

very laudable statement to make a fool of the common man, but the

fact remains that till a couple of centuries back, time in India was

measured by " ghati-yantra " and " nalika yantra " etc. etc. So leave

alone the " point of birth time " it was impossible even to record the

hour of birth time correctly which was recorded, if at all it was

recorded, with the words like " when the cock crowed " or when " the sun

had set " and so on! It was equally impossible to calculate planetary

positions from miserably wrong panchangas!

That much for your " uncovering the whole in the point " !

Sh-Ru

< And why should people not taking advantage of that knowledge if

they feel the need?>

AKK

Even in this twenty-first century, I have yet to see

any " bhavishyavani " of any jyotishi that had warned about the Bihar

floods or about the recession or about the crash in the share market

or the scourge known as terrorism! On an individual level, " the

greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century " had failed

miserably to see even his own future or the future of his wife or his

offspring---nay even of " jyotisha empire " that he had so assiduously

built!

On the other hand, there are just endless discussions among jyotishis

themselves about Lal Kitab and Jaimini Sutras and Tazika and Prashna

and what not! Even after having practiced " Vedic astrology " for

thousands of years, they have yet to decide as to which ayanamsha, if

any, is the most accurate! They are fighting among themselves like

Kilkenny cats to prove their own superiority individually! If you

have any doubts, just see any Jyotisha Patrika where every astrologer

praises his own skills at the cost of every other astrologer! Is

that the advantage you want us to take from these jyotishis?

Do you realize the fact that it is easier to become a " Vedic

astrologer " these days than to clear even a primary school level math

class? To become a " Vedic astrologer " , all you have to do is to read

a few books on " Vedic astrology " by the latest jyotishis and sing

paeans for them individually! You do not need to know ABC of

anything else---must have a glib tongue and must know some

psychology! And you can refer to your-self as " Doctor of Vedic

astrology " ! Nobody is going to ask you any " documentary proof " . It

is as simple as that!

Sh-Ru:

< An individual is influenced by many things and so it is very

advisable to start an action in a moment when all influences are most

favorable. No fatalism at all. Very logical and rewarding.>

AKK

Here you are talking of muhurtas but they are not to be confused with

predictive gimmicks!

Sh-Ru

< By the way, I am not a Jyotishee, but your doubts seem to me quite

artificial - that is why I am responding.>

AKK

" I am not a jyotishee " ---that statement really takes the cake! If you

are not a Jyotishi yourself, who has authorized you to speak on

behalf of jyotishis? If " jyotishis " have appointed you for that

purpose, does it mean that they are so illiterate and ignorant

themselves that they cannot plead their own cases? If you are

speaking without any authorization, then you are just poking your

nose in others' affairs unnecessarily! In fact, you are making a

laughing stock of yourself since you have not done any homework at

all for such a pontification about " jyotish " (sic!) which is nothing

but a way to make a fool of a common man!

You have referred to Srimad Bhagavata. Have your read it yourself

or has some " mentor " just handed over some chit of paper which had

the shloka of " jotisham ayanam… " translated in a wrong manner? If

you have read it yourself, why have you overlooked (or did you ignore

them deliberately?) the following shlokas from fifth skanda, chapter

21, shlokas 3 to 5 (Gita Press edition translation):

" Placed at the centre of the sky, the glorious sun, the lord of the

luminaries, warms by its heat and illuminates by its light (all) the

three worlds. Coursing by slow, swift and regulated marches, known

by the names of Uttarayana (Winter Solstice), Dakshinayana (Summer

Solstice) and the Vishuvata (the two Equinoxes), and rising higher,

going down and taking a mean position whenever and wherever such

positions are inevitable, the sun, while passing through the signs of

the zodiac from Makara (Capricorn) onwards lengthens the days while

shortening the nights and vice-versa and brings their duration on a

par. When the sun traverses the sign of Mesha (Aries)and Tula (Libra)

the days and nights are of equal length and when it traverses the

five signs from Vrishabha onwards (viz. Vrihsabha, Mithuna, Karkata,

Simha and Kanya) days become longer and longer only while nights

become shorter by nearly half an hour every month. When the sun

traverses the five signs from Vrischika onwards viz. Vrischika,

Dhanus, Makara, Kumbha and Mina, days become shorter and nights

proportionately longer. Days grow in length till the sun takes to

the southward course and nights become longer and longer till it

takes a northward turn " .

Then again, why are you silent about the same Srimad Bhagavata, Book

12, chapter 11, shlokas 32 to 42 where the names of twelve months

have been given the same as in the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha

viz. Madhu, Madhava etc. What " Vedic astrology " (sic!) is " hidden "

in those shlokas?

I am not referring to any other Purana etc. since you have not talked

about them as maybe the " mentors " who had given you the piece of

paper that had " proved " (sic!) " Vedic astrology " in Srimad Bhagavata

do not know anything about any other Purana!

You have said, " Your doubts seem to me quite artificial - that is why

I am responding. "

What is artificial about the above sholkas of Bhagavata? On the other

hand, it must be clear to you by now that every thing is artificial

about the so called Vedic astrology! If you have the good of Hindu

community at your heart and are doing just selfless service (though I

know there are no free lunches!), why did you not point out such

anachronisms to your friends or to the people whose well-wisher you

claim to be? Why do you have lopsided view and that also a wrong

one! Surprisingly, you are defending non-existent predictive

gimmicks in the name of Vedic astrology but are eloquently silent

about the festivals and muhurtas etc. being celebrated on wrong days

on the shoulders of the same " Vedic astrology " that you are

defending! What is your real motive?

I do not know your religion, though I know by now that you are from

Germany. If you are a Christian, how would you feel if someone,

especially a non-Christian, asks, nay even compels you to celebrate

Christmas on January 10 or any other day but December 25? That is

exactly what this " Vedic astrology " , " Vedic astrologers " and

its/their supporters like you--- are doing to Hindus--—compelling

them to celebrate Uttarayana (Winter Solstice) on January 15 instead

of December 21/22 (the shortest day of the year) and so on, all in

the name of Vedic astrology! And you are all out to defend them in

their such anti-Vedic activities, all in the name of " Vedic

astrology " , when you have not been able to quote even a single mantra

that talks of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas nor have you

been able to quote any Purana etc. which has advised us to consult

soothsayers before embarking on any plan!

But then you are not to be blamed either! Most of the people seem to

be defending " Vedic astrology " these days--- though they do not know

even ABC of the Vedas! Actually, if the majority of Hindu community

had not been so foolish as to run after such fads and feel

exhilarated when some foreigner praised " Vedic astrology " we would

not have needed " friends " like you to " advise us to continue to be

hurtled towards adharma " by celebrating our festivals and muhurtas on

wrong days in he name of " Vedic astrology " .

In fact we just deserve " well wishers " like you, enveloped as we are

in tamoguni budhi, thanks to " Vedic astrology " !

With regards,

A K Kaul

WAVES-Vedic , " amritasyaputra "

<amritasyaputra@> wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Kaul,

>

> Thanks for your psychological analysis of my expression " I think "

but

> it has no bearing on the subject matter: Jyotish IS often metioned

in

> the Vedic Literature. Even in, as indologist would say, the oldest

> works - in the Upanishads. So there is no necessity to doubt the

> authenticity of Jyotish from that side.

>

> First you state that Jyotish is not mentioned in the Vedas,

> Upanishads, etc. - now you qualify it by saying that if Jyotish is

> mentioned than only in a sense that fits you. Difficult to argue

> about it then. Even as I was prepared to quote you the Upanishads

you

> say No, no that is in another sense. What is this discussion?

>

> OK, let's move to Puranas, the " Illustrations of the Vedas " :

> Here is an example - you might also dislike or continue trying to

> ignore - where the principles of Jyotish are described:

>

> Shrimad Bhagavatam Mahapurana 10:8:5 where Nanda speaks to Garga,

the

> Purohit of the Yadus: " …A treatise of Jyotish from which proceeds

the

> knowledge of supersensuous phenomena and through which man can know

> the cause as well as its effect has been directly composed by you. "

>

> Yes, you are of course right: Jyotish is one of the Angas, not

> Darshanas (as I mistakingly stated). But then, as a limb of the

Veda

> it is even more intimately connected to the Vedas.

>

> You say > Bhagwan Krishna did not advise him to consult some

> soothsayer! <

> What is this for an argument. Sri Krishna gave not an advise to

> consult a Jyotishi, so what. Does this logically mean that Jyotish

> does not exist? Please rethink you logic.

> Sri Krishna did not mention 1 + 1 equals 2 but that does not mean

> that it was not existing even in His time.

>

> >Neither Itihasa believes that we must be on the mercy of

soothsayers!

> <

> Again, you are interpreting the scriptures in a very strange way.

No

> one says, and Jyotish neither, that one has to be at mercy of

> Jyotish. Where are you getting these distorted ideas.

>

> Jyotish, the light of higher order, is here, to give you knowledge.

> And the whole knowledge, nay, the whole universe is contained in a

> grain of sand. Jyotish is just a mathematical way of uncovering the

> whole in the point (in the point of birth, in this case). And why

> should people not taking advantage of that knowledge if they feel

the

> need?

>

> Pity for you, that you did not meet a proper Jyotishee.

>

> Jyotish is far from fatalism. > Fatalism is actually against the

> ethos of the<

> An individual is influenced by many things and so it is very

> advisable to start an action in a moment when all influences are

most

> favorable. No fatalism at all. Very logical and rewarding.

>

> By the way, I am not a Jyotishee, but your doubts seem to me quite

> artificial - that is why I am responding.

>

> With best wishes

>

> JAI GURU DEV

>

> Shaas

> Germany

>

> WAVES-Vedic , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Shaas Ruzicka,

> >

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > Thanks for the response.

> >

> > You have said

> >

> > <I think, Jyotish is sufficiently often mentioned in the most

> ancient Vedic

> > scriptures - even in the Upanishads, whose themes are of

completely

> > spiritual nature.>

> >

> > " I think " ---Well, your thinking vis-à-vis the actual facts does

not

> matter

> > much! On the other hand, that (thinking!) itself shows as to how

> unsure you

> > are about " jyotish being sufficiently mentioned " in " ancient Vedic

> > scriptures " actually!

> >

> > Pl. ponder (think!) on the topic of the discussion which is " Vedic

> > astrology " --the greatest fraud on the Vedas! And by " Vedic

> astrology " , the

> > fad and fraud of predictive gimmicks is meant, obviously!

> >

> > Here is a challenge to you and to all the jyotishis,

> whether " Vedic " or

> > " Non-Vedic " or even " anti-Vedic " ---just quote even a single

mantra

> from any

> > of the Vedas, or Upanishadas or Brahmanas etc. etc. that has

> touched the

> > topic about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis even with a barge

> pole! Yet

> > another challenge: Just quote any mantra from any of these very

> Vedic

> > scriptures that even obliquely refers to Mangal, Shani etc. etc.

> planets!

> >

> > We have a lot of imported Vamadevas these days masquerading

> as " Vedic

> > astrologers " . But when it comes to quoting even a single mantra

> which talks

> > of predictive gimmicks in the Vedas, all they resort to is bluff

and

> > prevarication! There is a lot of correspondence available on this

> > (Waves-Vedic) forum about the same, and it is no use to repeat

> those posts

> > again.

> >

> > You have said

> >

> > < Jyotish belongs to the 6 Darshanas, and as such it is an

integral

> part of

> > the Vedic Literature>.

> >

> > Here also your " thinking " is wrong! Jyotish is not one of the

six

> darshanas

> > (sic!) but it is actually one of the six angas (limbs) of the

Vedas!

> >

> > Yes, Jyotish is a Vedanga—a limb of the Vedas----but it is not

only

> imported

> > " Vamadevas " even our local " Varahamihiras " and " Parasharas " who

> have put

> > wool into their ears about the Jyotisha that the Vedas are

talking

> about!

> > These bluff-masters claim that since there is a work named

Vedanga

> Jyotisha,

> > it means that Jyotisha is an " anga " -- a limb---of the Vedas!

But

> they are

> > actually putting their ignorance on public display by such

> statements since

> > " Vedanga Jyotisha " is actually a name of the work by Acharya

> Lagadha of

> > around 14th century BCE, prepared in the then Kashmir of now J & K

> state. It

> > is also known as Rik-Jyotisham and Yajur Jyotisham. It does not

> talk of

> > predictive gimmicks but just gives the methodology of calculating

> mean

> > tithi, nakshatra and the six seasons apart from the twelve solar

> and lunar

> > months. Even in that work, there are no Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna

> etc. Rashis

> > nor any indication of Mangal and Shani etc. planets!

> >

> > But even then we are told that predictive gimmicks are a part of

> the Vedas!

> >

> > Thus whenever there is any mention of the word " jyotisha " in any

of

> the

> > Upanishadas, it is in the sense of astronomy and calculating the

> proper

> > tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic rituals---and not in the sense of

> checking

> > the horoscope of every Tom, Dick and Harry!

> >

> > You have said

> >

> > < before I take the " pain " to give you some exact quotes from

Vedic

> > Literature, one question: Have you, actually, read Mahabharata and

> > Ramayana?>

> >

> > You are talking about the Mahabharata and the Ramayana like a

prize

> catch!

> > Yes, there is mention of planets vis-à-vis nakshatras in the Mbh

> times

> > without number! But we must not forget that the Gita is a part

of

> the same

> > Mahabharata! When Arjuna asked Krishna, " I do not know who will

> win the

> > war--whether Kauravas or Pandavas.... " , Bhagwan Krishna did not

> advise him

> > to consult some soothsayer! Nor did He tell Arjuna the outcome

of

> the war

> > beforehand, in spite of Lord Krishna being really Omniscient,

> Omnipresent

> > and Omnipotent Master of Universes! On the other hand, He just

> advised

> > Arjuna " If you get killed on the battlefield, you will go to

> heavens and if

> > you win the war, you will be master of the entire globe---as

such,

> just do

> > your duty and forget about the results " .

> >

> > I do not know whether you have really read either of the

Itihasas

> or not,

> > but what is evident is that you have not grasped the spirit of

> either of the

> > works even if you have read them! Neither Itihasa believes that

we

> must be

> > on the mercy of soothsayers! On the other hand, what they

> demonstrate with

> > practical examples is that even if someone does have the

capability

> of

> > deciphering the future events before-hand, he/she should not

> disclose them!

> >

> > Let me give you another example from the same Itihasas that you

are

> talking

> > about. When the king Dashratha decided to anoint Bhagwan Rama as

> the

> > crown-prince, he asked his kulaguru, Bhagwan Vasishtha, for a

> proper muhurta

> > for that function. And Maharshi Vasishtha advised that just the

> next day

> > was a proper muhurta for that function! We cannot overlook the

> fact that

> > Vasishtha Muni is the son of Brahmaji and thus an omniscient

Rishi,

> who

> > could foresee any future event like the palm of his hand! It is

> thus clear

> > that Vasishtha Rishi was aware as to what a tragedy would befall

> King

> > Dasharatha by trying to anoint Bhagwan Ram as heir-apparent. But

> he just

> > kept quiet!

> >

> > He did not advise Dashratha either to have his janmapatri checked

> through

> > some soothsayer before embarking on any such plans! What does

that

> mean?

> > There was no such curse as " Vedic astrology " around then!

> >

> > Here is another challenge to you and to all the jyotishis---every

> type of

> > them! Can you quote even a single shloka from the Mbh. or the

> Ramayana or

> > any of the Puranas or any of shastras which has advised to start

any

> > enterprise after consulting some soothsayer? NO. I can assure

you

> that

> > there is no such sholka. Fatalism is actually against the ethos

of

> the

> > Vedas and other scriptures---in fact it is against the basic

tenet

> of Vedic

> > culture! All our shastras advise us " uttishthata jagrata prapya

> varan

> > nibodhata... " i.e. " Awake, arise and know IT from the ones who

> know THAT " .

> > NO shastra has advised us that we should consult some soothsayer

> before

> > embarking even on the journey of " realizing that Eternal Truth " .

> But our

> > imported " Vamadevas " and local " Parasharas " and " Varahamihiras "

are

> just

> > advising us quite contrary to the same---they want us to be at

> their mercy

> > and beck and call. And they call themselves " Vedic astrologers " .

> >

> > You have said further

> >

> > < and Mr Avtar's opinions are utterly unqualified full of half

> truths and

> > wrong assumptions.>

> >

> > My dear " highly qualified " jyotishisji! Do you know that prior

to

> the

> > advent of Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta of around 3rd/4th

> century BCE--

> > as quoted in the Panchasidhantika--- we did not have any

indigenous

> > astronomical work for calculating planetary positions vis-à-vis

> Mesha,

> > Vrisha etc. Rashis? And that astronomical work is the most

> monstrous one

> > with fundamental arguments which are anything but correct! And

no

> wonder,

> > the idol of today's " Vedic astrologers " viz. Varahamihira could

> make correct

> > predictions only from such a monstrous work as it

was " spashatataro

> > savitrah " —(The Surya Sidhanta is the most accurate astronomical

> work " —sic!)

> > according to him!

> >

> > And that means, by implication, that till the advent of modern

> astronomy

> > into India, which was not more than a century back, as all the

Hindu

> > panchangas circumnavigated around that very Surya Sidhanta of

Maya

> the

> > mlechha, the predictions by " Hindu jyotishis " could never be

> correct over

> > the last couple of thousand years!

> >

> > And it is the same Surya Sidhanta in disguise that is being

> flaunted by way

> > of Lahiri Ayanamsha now a days! That means that even today's

> predictions by

> > Hindu jyotishis can never be correct even if they call

> themselves " Vedic

> > astrologers " .

> >

> > NO wonder it is because of that very " Vedic astrology " and the

> same " Vedic

> > astrologers " that we are celebrating all our festivals and

muhurtas

> on wrong

> > days like Dipavali on October 28 instead of Sepember 28 and so

on.

> >

> > I wonder if any of the " imported Vamadevas " would celebrate

> Christmas on

> > any other day than December 25, but they want us to celebrate

> Uttarayana—the

> > Winter Solstice---on January 15 instead of December 21/22, the

> shortest day

> > of the year---just because they have an axe to grind---to make

the

> entire

> > Hindu community subservient to them and that they can achieve

only

> if they

> > make the Hindus kill their own dharma themselves! And there is

no

> better

> > (or even worse!) way of killing ones dharma than by celebrating

all

> the

> > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

> >

> > We certainly do not need enemies to ruin us since we have

> our " friendly

> > Vedic astrologers " --- billions and trillions of them--- around

to

> do so!

> >

> > With regards,

> >

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > WAVES-Vedic , Shaas Ruzicka

<amritasyaputra@>

> > wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Dear Mr. Sabhlok,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > before I take the " pain " to give you some exact quotes from

> Vedic

> > Literature, one question: Have you, actually, read Mahabharata

and

> Ramayana?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Your and Mr Avtar's opinions are utterly unqualified full of

> half truths

> > and wrong assumptions. I think, Jyotish is sufficiently often

> mentioned in

> > the most ancient Vedic scriptures - even in the Upanishads, whose

> themes are

> > of completely spiritual nature.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Jyotish belongs to the 6 Darshanas, and as such it is an

> integral part

> > of the Vedic Literature.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > WIth best regards

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Shaas

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Prem Sabhlok <psabhlok@> schrieb:

> >

> > > I do not know why it is called Vedic Astrology. May

be

> I have

> > missed that mantra/hymn/Rik in Vedas which refers to Astrology

> (Jyotish

> > Vidya). Mantras relating to Astronomy, Algebra, physical

sciences,

> Medical

> > sciences etc are there but about Astrology I could not find any

> reference in

> > Vedas. In Ramayana and Mahabharta which are Vedas retold, also

> there is no

> > reference to Astrology. Can any Vedic scholar throw some light on

> this

> > aspect? Some learned people have found that astrology started in

> Greece as a

> > hobby but not as a science. To my understanding Vedas do not have

> even the

> > concept of auspicious/inauspicious time/period.

> >

> > > With kind regards,

> >

> > > P.K.Sabhlok

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > waves-vedic

> >

> > > jyotirved@

> >

> > > Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:01:27 +0000

> >

> > > [WAVES-Vedic] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the

greatest

> fraud on

> > the Vedas! (reposted)

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> >

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Shri Ravilochananji,

> >

> > > Namaskar!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > <I concur with your views. NOwhere is it said in our epics or

> >

> > > Puranas that the Kings or Princes consulted astrologers before

> >

> > > marriage. Neither did Lord Ram consult an astrologer before

> taking

> >

> > > part in the bow contest nor did Lord Krishna went in search of

> >

> > > astrologers before departing to carry away Devi Rukmini.>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > The fad of kings consulting jyotishis was started through his

> Brihat

> >

> > > Samhita by Varahamihira who was the greatest charlatan

according

> to

> >

> > > me since he could make " correct predictions from incorect data "

> viz.

> >

> > > panchangas based on Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, the most

> >

> > > monstrous astronomical work that could ever have been produced

by

> >

> > > anybody! No wonder, " Vedic astrologers " of today vie with one

> >

> > > another for being called " Varahamihira " since they also can

make

> >

> > > correct predictions ONLY from incorrect data!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regarding " Patri Melapak " , what is most ironic is that

> no " jyotisha

> >

> > > shastra " right from Sphujidwaja's yavana Jatakam to the most

> >

> > > notorious fake work viz. Brihat Parashari has touched this

topic

> >

> > > even with a barge pole, but then today's " Vedic jyotishis " say

> that

> >

> > > it was practised by Vedic seers! My personal view is that if

the

> >

> > > seers had really indulged in such a non-sense (actually the

most

> >

> > > cunning!) fad, almost all of them would still have been looking

> for

> >

> > > a spouse whose Patri would match with theirs with at least 28

> gunas!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > <It is high time that we gave up the ancient Greek notion of

> >

> > > astrology and get back to proper astronomy.>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > This " Vedic astrology " has had such a deleterious affect on the

> real

> >

> > > Vedic culture that the words of the Gita are becoming most

> >

> > > meaningful these days:

> >

> > > " adharmam dharmam it ya manyate tamsa vrita

> >

> > > sarvarthan vipareetanshchai, budhih saa partha tamasi "

> >

> > > i.e.

> >

> > > " an intellect that views adharma as dharma (and dharma as

adharma)

> >

> > > besides viewing all the things upside down, is the real Tamasic

> >

> > > intellect " .

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I find that almost every Hindu is trying to defend " Vedic

> astrology "

> >

> > > in spite of the fact that it has been made clear to them by now

> that

> >

> > > it is because of that very fad that we are celebrating all our

> >

> > > festivals and muhurtas on worng days, but their arguments are

> really

> >

> > > tamasic---like " I do not know much about astronomy (and by

> >

> > > implication it means that he/she knows everything about

astrology

> >

> > > though!) " is the stock reply of most of them.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > All the Hindus are now a days least bothered about celebrating

> Pitra-

> >

> > > Amavasya on the day of actual Dipavali which is on September

28,

> >

> > > 2008, but they do not want to hear even a single word

> against " Vedic

> >

> > > astrology " ! They celebrated marriages in actual Pitrapaksha

> >

> > > because " Vedic astrologes " had okayed those dates!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > What is surprising is that in spite of being well read, most of

> the

> >

> > > Hindus have lost all sense of basic Primary school level

> geography!

> >

> > > They have become oblivious of the fact that Uttarayana cannot

> take

> >

> > > place on any other day than the shortest day of the year or

> >

> > > Dakshinayana except on the longest day of the year! But they

have

> >

> > > put wool into their ears for such phenomena since " Vedic

> >

> > > astrologers " want them to celebrate Uttarayana on January 15

and

> >

> > > Dakshinayana on July 15 and so on!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > In short, most of the Hindu society appears to have become

clones

> of

> >

> > > Maya the mlechha just because of their fatal infatuation

> with " Vedic

> >

> > > astrology " ! And that is the real Tamasic Vriti that I am

talking

> >

> > > about!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > However, since, AS IS EVIDENT FROM YOUR POST, Hindus are

> basically

> >

> > > the offspring of real Vamadevas instead of " imported

Vamadevas " ,

> >

> > > sooner than later the genome of Vedic seers will revolt against

> this

> >

> > > tyranny of " Vedic astrologers " and thereby prevent the Hindu

> >

> > > culture from having an akalamrityu, INSPITE OF " VEDIC

> ASTROLOGERS " !

> >

> > > With regards,

> >

> > > Avtar

> >

> > >

> >

> > > HinduCalendar , " Ravilochanan "

> >

> > > <ravilochan_tn@> wrote:

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Dear Shri Avtar

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > Pranaam! I concur with your views. NOwhere is it said in our

> epics

> >

> > > or

> >

> > > > Puranas that the Kings or Princes consulted astrologers

before

> >

> > > > marriage. Neither did Lord Ram consult an astrologer before

> taking

> >

> > > > part in the bow contest nor did Lord Krishna went in search

of

> >

> > > > astrologers before departing to carry away Devi Rukmini. This

> >

> > > > practice of matching kundli has reached absurd proportions.

Our

> >

> > > > dharma speaks about doing our duty without concern for the

> fruits.

> >

> > > > Doing what is right is the most important issue. Karma phal

> will

> >

> > > > finally reach us. One's karmaphal will not suddenly turn into

> good

> >

> > > > all of a sudden just because a kundli got matched. It doesn't

> make

> >

> > > > any sense. The Gita does not speak about jyotish phal. It

only

> >

> > > speaks

> >

> > > > about karma phal. My heart bleeds upon seeing some orthodox

> Hindus

> >

> > > > who have nearly mastered the aspect of Karma Yoga but still

> visit

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > astrologer with kundlis during marriage just because their

> parents

> >

> > > > had (wrongly) taught them so. They believe it to be an

integral

> >

> > > part

> >

> > > > of Vedic culture. It is high time that we gave up the ancient

> >

> > > Greek

> >

> > > > notion of astrology and get back to proper astronomy.

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > humbly

> >

> > > > Ravilochanan

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> >

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > Shri Arul Thilak ji,

> >

> > > > > Namaskar!

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > You have said

> >

> > > > > < As to howÂ the lastÂ HinduÂ kingdom was lost in the 21st

> >

> > > century,

> >

> > > > > the following excerpts of Tarun Vijay's recent essayÂ are

> >

> > > > revealing.>

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > It is immaterial as to who says what! In a democracy,

> everybody

> >

> > > is

> >

> > > > > " authorized " to say anything about anybody or any event,

> >

> > > especially

> >

> > > > if

> >

> > > > > the person concerned is a journalist! We have, however, to

> >

> > > > ascertain

> >

> > > > > facts for ourselves by sifting grain from the chaff and go

by

> >

> > > them!

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > You have quoted me as saying

> >

> > > > > <Our erstwhile Hindu neighbouring country is a glaring

> >

> > > > > example of its " suicide " because of an extraordinary

> infatuation

> >

> > > > > for " Vedic astrology " .>

> >

> > > > > and there is enough of correspondence on this topic in this

> >

> > > forum!

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > To summarize the facts, one has just to recall the tragic

> event

> >

> > > of

> >

> > > > the

> >

> > > > > erstwhile crown-prince shooting dead his parents---the then

> king

> >

> > > and

> >

> > > > > queen---and then himself, only because his parents would

not

> >

> > > allow

> >

> > > > him

> >

> > > > > to marry his sweet heart! And the parents did not allow

that

> >

> > > > marriage

> >

> > > > > as the " Vedic astrologers " there had said that the

horoscope

> of

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > > crown-prince and his sweet heart did not match and it would

> bode

> >

> > > ill

> >

> > > > > for the king and the queen if that marriage was allowed!

> >

> > > > > And by now it is a well established fact that " Vedic

> >

> > > astrologers "

> >

> > > > only

> >

> > > > > predict the events upside down, if the data like the date

and

> >

> > > time

> >

> > > > of

> >

> > > > > birth etc. of the " native " are correct, since they can make

> >

> > > correct

> >

> > > > > predictions only from incorrect data! Thus instead of

> advising

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > > then king and queen to solemnize the marriage of the crown

> >

> > > prince

> >

> > > > with

> >

> > > > > his sweet heart---she was also from a royal family of India-

--

> -as

> >

> > > > > otherwise he would go mad, they just advised to the

contrary!

> >

> > > And

> >

> > > > the

> >

> > > > > results are there for everybody to see! It is worthwhile to

> put

> >

> > > on

> >

> > > > > record here that if it had been the earlier monarch, who

was

> >

> > > shot

> >

> > > > dead

> >

> > > > > by his own son, still ruling Nepal, the things would have

been

> >

> > > > > entirely different and would not have come to such a stage.

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > Same was the case with BJP! If they had not advance the

last

> >

> > > > General

> >

> > > > > Election by several months, the chances were that they

would

> have

> >

> > > > > gained a majority by planning their moves properly and

would

> >

> > > still

> >

> > > > be

> >

> > > > > ruling today! But they believed more in " Vedic astrology "

> than

> >

> > > their

> >

> > > > > own drum-beating of " India shining " . Even on the day the

> results

> >

> > > of

> >

> > > > > the last election were declared, all the channels and

> newspapers

> >

> > > > were

> >

> > > > > crying from housetops that as per all the jyotishis, A B

> Vajpayee

> >

> > > > > would be the PM, irrespective of which party gained

majority!

> >

> > > > However,

> >

> > > > > the BJP's faith in " Vedic astrology " ruined everything for

> them

> >

> > > and

> >

> > > > > poor A B Vajpayee, instead of being crowned the king again,

> has

> >

> > > > become

> >

> > > > > completely bedridden, a sad fact that no astrologer had

> foreseen!

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > You have also said

> >

> > > > > < It (Nepal) faithfully follows a Vikram Samvat calendar

> based

> >

> > > on

> >

> > > > the

> >

> > > > > most scientific Hindu system of time and space.Â Â >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > On this topic also, there is a lot of correspondence with

> >

> > > > > IndiaArchaeology forum etc. that is available in this forum

> as

> >

> > > > well.

> >

> > > > > Again, instead of going by who is saying what, pl. peruse

that

> >

> > > > > correspondence and then let me know as to whether there is

any

> >

> > > > > " scientific basis " of 58 BC being called as Vikrami era is!

> If

> >

> > > at

> >

> > > > all

> >

> > > > > it has any scientific basis, it is based on the passage of

> the

> >

> > > VE

> >

> > > > from

> >

> > > > > one Greek constellation Aries into another Greek

> constellation

> >

> > > i.e.

> >

> > > > > Pisces in around 66 BCE! And nobody knows why and by whom

and

> >

> > > when

> >

> > > > it

> >

> > > > > was named " Vikrami Era " .

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > I have also made it clear literally hundreds of times that

my

> >

> > > > aversion

> >

> > > > > towards " Vedic astrology " is because of the fact that it is

> >

> > > > actually a

> >

> > > > > fraud on the Vedas and also a drag on Hindu society, since

it

> is

> >

> > > > this

> >

> > > > > very fad that is making us see adharma of celebrating all

our

> >

> > > > > festivals and muhurtas on wrong days as dharma! Same is the

> >

> > > case

> >

> > > > with

> >

> > > > > the all out defense by some people of the farce known

> as " Vedic

> >

> > > > > astrology " ---they are actually defending adharma in the

name

> of

> >

> > > > dharma!

> >

> > > > > Hope the situation is clear now.

> >

> > > > > Regards,

> >

> > > > > AKK

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > > > HinduCalendar , Arul T <arul_thilak@>

> >

> > > wrote:

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > 1.Â Â Sri Avtar-ji says as follows:

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > QUOTE

> >

> > > > > > Our erstwhile Hindu neighbouring country is a glaring

> >

> > > > > > example of its " suicide " because of an extraordinary

> >

> > > infatuation

> >

> > > > > > for " Vedic astrology " . So is the example of the BJP which

> had

> >

> > > > > > an " akalamrityu " by advanding the last election by

several

> >

> > > months

> >

> > > > on

> >

> > > > > > the advice of its " Minister of Astrology " !

> >

> > > > > > UNQUOTE

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > As to howÂ the lastÂ HinduÂ kingdom was lost in the 21st

> >

> > > century,

> >

> > > > > the following excerpts of Tarun Vijay's recent essayÂ are

> >

> > > > revealing.Â

> >

> > > > > How, in particular, Hindu religious discourse was

> impoverished

> >

> > > and

> >

> > > > > limited to ritualism:

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-

> >

> > > 3482408,prtpage-

> >

> > > > 1.cms

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > THE RIGHT VIEW

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Learn Chinese to know Kathmandu

> >

> > > > > > 14 Sep 2008, 1640 hrs IST, Tarun Vijay

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > QUOTE

> >

> > > > > > ..... Younger Nepal turned the tide in favour of a change

> with

> >

> > > a

> >

> > > > > balance. Kingdom's Hindu status was meaningless as it

failed

> to

> >

> > > > > strengthen the democratic roots and provide food, water and

> >

> > > > education

> >

> > > > > to the rural poor. Pro-Monarchy people couldn't establish

> their

> >

> > > > > credibility - they thrived on an anti-India note and kept

> >

> > > religious

> >

> > > > > affairs bound to the personal loyalty to the King which

meant

> no

> >

> > > > > spiritual insurgence could take shape and the religious

> discourse

> >

> > > > > remained limited to ritualism. No strong nationalist

> spiritual

> >

> > > > fervour

> >

> > > > > was allowed as King felt threatened hence no tears were

seen

> at

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > > demise of its Hindu nation status and the abolition of

> >

> > > > monarchy. ....

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > When the rulers turn corrupt and abuse peoples' faith and

> >

> > > trust,

> >

> > > > > public unrest and angst gets expressed in different ways.

> Nepal

> >

> > > saw

> >

> > > > it

> >

> > > > > happen in the form of a Maoism that prided to declare it's

> all

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > > sources of inspiration and support to the neighbouring

> Communist

> >

> > > > > China. .......

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > Prachanda took oath as the first Prime Minister of this

tiny

> >

> > > > > Himalayan federal republic, once the only Hindu State on

this

> >

> > > > planet,

> >

> > > > > in the name of the 'people of Nepal '.

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Earlier all the PMs had sworn in, invoking God's name. He

> >

> > > chose to

> >

> > > > > wear a western dress, three piece suite with a necktie.

> Earlier

> >

> > > > > everyone had worn a Nepalese traditional dress called Daura

> >

> > > Suruwal.

> >

> > > > > He also became the first PM not to visit Pashupati Nath, as

> has

> >

> > > been

> >

> > > > > the tradition of all the Nepalese leaders and he chose to

> visit

> >

> > > > China

> >

> > > > > first, again a new precedence, although our PM Dr Manmohan

> Singh

> >

> > > was

> >

> > > > > the first head of the state to congratulate Prachanda and

> invite

> >

> > > him

> >

> > > > > to visit India within half-an-hour of his election to the

> post.

> >

> > > > > > UNQUOTE

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > The Nepali monarchyÂ also hadÂ a Rajaguru :

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/06/27/stories/2002062703860100.htm

> >

> > > > > > Jun 27, 2002

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > Good news in 3 months: Kanchi Acharya

> >

> > > > > > By Our Special Correspondent

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > NEW DELHI JUNE 26. The Kanchi Sankaracharya, Jayendra

> >

> > > Saraswati,

> >

> > > > who

> >

> > > > > met the Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, and the Vice-

> >

> > > > President,

> >

> > > > > Krishan Kant, today asserted that he would continue with his

> >

> > > > > independent initiative to try and find a solution to the

> Ayodhya

> >

> > > > > problem that would be agreeable to both the parties

involved.

> He

> >

> > > > > expected " good news'' within two or three months.

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > During the day, the King of Nepal, Gyanendra, performed

> `pada

> >

> > > > puja'

> >

> > > > > at the feet of Adi Sankara at the Kamakshi temple, which is

> also

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > > place where the Kanchi seer stays when he is here. The King

> was

> >

> > > with

> >

> > > > > the Queen, Komal Rajyalaxmi, and their daughter, Prerna

> >

> > > Rajyalaxmi,

> >

> > > > > and the `puja' was performed in the presence of the

> >

> > > Sankaracharya

> >

> > > > who

> >

> > > > > is also the `rajguru' of Nepal. Earlier, he had clarified

> that

> >

> > > his

> >

> > > > > current visit to the capital was connected with King

> Gyanendra's

> >

> > > > > desire to meet him.

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > 2.Â Tarun Vijay's essay also mentions:

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > QUOTE

> >

> > > > > > It (Nepal) faithfully follows a Vikram Samvat calendar

> based

> >

> > > on

> >

> > > > the

> >

> > > > > most scientific Hindu system of time and space.Â Â

> >

> > > > > > UNQUOTE

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > Â

> >

> > > > > > --- On Thu, 25/9/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@>

wrote:

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@>

> >

> > > > > > [akandabaratam] Fwd: Re: " Vedic astrology " - the

> >

> > > greatest

> >

> > > > > fraud on the Vedas! (reposted)

> >

> > > > > > akandabaratam

> >

> > > > > > Thursday, 25 September, 2008, 12:39 AM

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > hinducivilization, " Avtar

Krishen

> >

> > > Kaul "

> >

> > > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Dear Shri Bhadraiah Mallampalliji,

> >

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> >

> > > > > > I would request you to kindly go through your own post

once

> >

> > > again.

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > > Can you pick even a single cogent reason from your own

> points

> >

> > > as

> >

> > > > to

> >

> > > > > > why we should continue to follow the fraud known as Vedic

> >

> > > > astrology,

> >

> > > > > > which is neither scientific, nor logical, least of all

> Vedic,

> >

> > > > > > instead of celebrating our festivals and muhurtas on

> correct

> >

> > > > days,

> >

> > > > > > as advised by our shastras, logic and science--since

> >

> > > > > > Uttarayana/Dakshina yana/Vasanta Sampat/Hemanta Sampat

etc.

> >

> > > are

> >

> > > > all

> >

> > > > > > phenomena of seasons and therefore scientific! Similarly,

> all

> >

> > > the

> >

> > > > > > Vedas and Puranas have fixed certain days for rituals!

> E.g.,

> >

> > > > > > Nirjala Ekadashi is a sort of Tapasya only if we observe

it

> in

> >

> > > > > > Summer, when we feel most thirsty, whereas in Winter, it

is

> >

> > > > hardly

> >

> > > > > > worthwhile! And that is what we will be doing after a few

> >

> > > > centuries-

> >

> > > > > > -celebrating that day in Winter--thanks to " Vedic

> astrologers "

> >

> > > > and

> >

> > > > > > their " Vedic astrology "

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > --- End forwarded message ---

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Voice your opinion on the burning issues of the day. Discuss,

> debate

> > with the world. Logon to message boards on MSN. Try it!

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sie sind Spam leid? Mail verfügt über einen

herausragenden

> Schutz

> > gegen Massenmails.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

>

--- End forwarded message ---

October 18, 2008

WAVES-Vedic , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved@> wrote: