Guest guest Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 Dear Ghopal Ji and members, Namaskar, Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member, otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there are many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they will think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing and must maintain a mutual regard. I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street dogs. I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only discussing about various points, which is being raised or supported by astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their point then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive language. I do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith supported by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has answered my basic question narrated in my blog " astrology a science or myth " . They used to divert the matter and even then they are not able to substantiate their own points. Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are following predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main point is both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, which is already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic. Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will say KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every one is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe elephant. General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is created by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it is vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names with some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any principle in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on. When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith, is based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by astrologer for their livelihood. I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version after receiving some reaction of the members. I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. They have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job, marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams but without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every thing in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation have dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the challenges, hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted for life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind him and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will be good, and he looses his struggling capacity. My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face odd situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience, regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve etc. Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe in fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will like to request all young members that never fall in the trap of astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on astrology), and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal. No doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try to learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or psychological game. I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the gateway of knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic hence never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take active part in discussion. I will also like to know as to how many members will like to follow my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we may continue our interaction. Thanks, Sanat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 dear sanat ji and group . poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he mentioned everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth deliberately ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental like this (esp sri kaul ji ) . because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also told me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless countering questions will also strt which happened in many others case ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums ( all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions other than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to basics .As it is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r known then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for answers too . he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in actual way . then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will do . even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud which i think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds exprnces how can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( search of truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo intellectual points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving answers for the queries he raised , asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is adamance ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some secret missions /agenda. now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all in the lite of astro . but write to me personaly . maheswara varma . ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i may or may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by queriests . also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash his address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal links which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r serious in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) . , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain wrote:>> Dear Ghopal Ji and members,> Namaskar,> Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member, > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there are > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they will > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing and > must maintain a mutual regard. > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street dogs. > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only discussing > about various points, which is being raised or supported by > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their point > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive language. I > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith supported > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has > answered my basic question narrated in my blog "astrology a science > or myth". They used to divert the matter and even then they are not > able to substantiate their own points.> > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are following > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main point is > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, which is > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic.> > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will say > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every one > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe > elephant. > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is created > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it is > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names with > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any principle > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on. > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith, is > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by > astrologer for their livelihood.> > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version after > receiving some reaction of the members.> > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. They > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job, > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams but > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every thing > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation have > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the challenges, > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted for > life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind him > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will be > good, and he looses his struggling capacity. > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face odd > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience, > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve etc. > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe in > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will like > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on astrology), > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal. No > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try to > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or > psychological game.> > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the gateway of > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic hence > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take > active part in discussion. > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to follow > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we may > continue our interaction.> > Thanks,> > Sanat> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Dear All, I am a Vedic scholar, Historian, Mathematician, Writer and a Businessman by Profession.Vedic Astrology is a science but the Astrologers frauds.They are ignorant, commercialied and money m inded.As such they make wrong predictions.I am not a professional astrologer but I am a Astrologer.Astronomy is a science and Vedic astrology is based on Astronomy.The heavenley bodies have impact on terrestial human life.But one can over come the effects of Planets on the person which is based on ones Horoscope which was at the time of ones birth.The various Devas and Asuras mentioned in Vedas are Aliens to earth who visited earth frequently.They are Presiding Deities of various heavenly bodies .I guess there was a hitch in this group.I was invited to join this group by one Mr.Sanatkumar.Hence, I joined this group.I am a new member of this group.Whatever may be the cause of the hitch in this group,I request all the members to be friendly mutually and avoid quarrelling.After all one must exchange knowledge with eachother.This is my personal request as a New member of this group. Yours faithfully, B.C.VENKATAKRISHNAN. website: www.vedascience.com maheswara_varma <maheswara_varma Re: Message to all Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 2:11 PM dear sanat ji and group . poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he mentioned everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth deliberately ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental like this (esp sri kaul ji ) . because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also told me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless countering questions will also strt which happened in many others case ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums ( all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions other than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to basics .As it is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r known then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for answers too . he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in actual way . then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will do . even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud which i think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds exprnces how can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( search of truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo intellectual points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving answers for the queries he raised , asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is adamance ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some secret missions /agenda. now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all in the lite of astro . but write to me personaly . maheswara varma . ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i may or may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by queriests . also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash his address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal links which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r serious in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) . , "sanat2221" <sanatkumar_jain@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Ghopal Ji and members,> Namaskar,> Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member, > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there are > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they will > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing and > must maintain a mutual regard. > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street dogs. > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only discussing > about various points, which is being raised or supported by > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their point > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive language. I > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith supported > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has > answered my basic question narrated in my blog "astrology a science > or myth". They used to divert the matter and even then they are not > able to substantiate their own points.> > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are following > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main point is > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, which is > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic.> > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will say > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every one > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe > elephant. > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is created > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it is > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names with > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any principle > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on. > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith, is > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by > astrologer for their livelihood.> > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version after > receiving some reaction of the members.> > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. They > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job, > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams but > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every thing > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation have > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the challenges, > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted for > life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind him > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will be > good, and he looses his struggling capacity. > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face odd > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience, > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve etc. > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe in > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will like > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on astrology), > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal. No > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try to > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or > psychological game.> > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the gateway of > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic hence > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take > active part in discussion. > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to follow > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we may > continue our interaction.> > Thanks,> > Sanat> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Shri Maheswara Vermaji, Namaskar! <he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions> There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- existent rashis! Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has attempted it till date! Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. As per their own words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also correct to the nearest decimal second! You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier of later by at least three hours and so on! I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha! Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets affect every individual individually and that also through some intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu- Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha beats all the others and so on! The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your larger than life ego? Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic nor scientific. Dhanyavad. A K Kaul , " maheswara_varma " <maheswara_varma wrote: > > > dear sanat ji and group . > > poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he mentioned > everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth deliberately > ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply > brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental like > this (esp sri kaul ji ) . > > > > because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is > true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also told > me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply > passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later as > it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless > countering questions will also strt which happened in many others case > ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a > science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a > point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums ( > all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions other > than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to basics .As it > is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than > going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply > asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r known > then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for > answers too . > > > > he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in > actual way . > > then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will do . > > > > even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud which i > think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds exprnces how > can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( search of > truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo intellectual > points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving answers > for the queries he raised , > > > > asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or > scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami > vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is adamance > ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some secret > missions /agenda. > > now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they > faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all in the > lite of astro . > > but write to me personaly . > > > > maheswara varma . > > ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i may or > may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by queriests > . > > also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a > support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash his > address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal links > which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r serious > in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) . > > > , " sanat2221 " > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members, > > Namaskar, > > Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member, > > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we > > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there are > > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they will > > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing and > > must maintain a mutual regard. > > > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have > > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street dogs. > > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with > > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only discussing > > about various points, which is being raised or supported by > > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their point > > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive language. I > > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith supported > > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has > > answered my basic question narrated in my blog " astrology a science > > or myth " . They used to divert the matter and even then they are not > > able to substantiate their own points. > > > > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are following > > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main point is > > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, which is > > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may > > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic. > > > > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was > > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may > > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each > > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will say > > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every one > > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe > > elephant. > > > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is created > > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it is > > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by > > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, > > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, > > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our > > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names with > > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious > > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any principle > > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on. > > > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith, is > > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by > > astrologer for their livelihood. > > > > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version after > > receiving some reaction of the members. > > > > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of > > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. They > > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job, > > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams but > > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every thing > > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in > > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation have > > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the challenges, > > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of > > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams > > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted for > > life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind him > > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some > > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will be > > good, and he looses his struggling capacity. > > > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face odd > > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must > > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience, > > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve etc. > > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe in > > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our > > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to > > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will like > > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of > > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on astrology), > > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal. No > > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try to > > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important > > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or > > psychological game. > > > > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their > > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive > > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the gateway > of > > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic hence > > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take > > active part in discussion. > > > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to follow > > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we may > > continue our interaction. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sanat > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 dear kaul ji namaskar to u pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again may b millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also told in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) not billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just introduction It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv in correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud learn frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or fabricated . but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is not intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he said .Again i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking questions to others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur points forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for last 20 days ..( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i stress here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to the grp and clear off in a decent manner ) There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras fromany of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenousastronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis!Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculatedhoroscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal andShani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas andthe Vedanga Jyotisha etc.Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in theVedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that theVedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-existent rashis!Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic astrology"is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! #### U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv astrology in veda ,puranas and epics sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b names of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated in that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help of some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find lost dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it is worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no time to read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we shud b informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or what ever it is . Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent devlpemnts in india . Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all gurus or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and india it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and non blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when reverence is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i dont think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material purposes . Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science itappears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that thezodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equaldivisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer hasattempted it till date! #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actuallySanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, whichwere and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equaltwelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific! ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro frm greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says yevana are hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of some rishis like nagas or asuras . This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( sun dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not stars like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa to nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in nadi amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud depend greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a zodiac ??is it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him fraud and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which even they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted that stanza > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more thanseventy per cent success in his/her predictions. ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is fate of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right direction ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field esp in this kali era . As per their ownwords, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical in applying other than pure mathematics . even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission (chandrayaan )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests still going on to make sure of it .It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as abranch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipsesthat may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipsetimings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that alsocorrect to the nearest decimal second! ### It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual reports based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are generaly diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they trained in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also availability of such gurus and gurukulas. other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i dont worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 hrs or 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomerswill make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" inthe eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that issupposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlierof later by at least three hours and so on!I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened inthe past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, ifnot days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Mayathe mlechha! ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go and presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of world renounced astronomers and scientists .Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in thelanding timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft youcan appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv astrologers shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt branch all together after intitial some assossiations .Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictivegimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planetsaffect every individual individually and that also through someintangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Mandukaor Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu-Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves arenot sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system orLal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system likeSecondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one anotherboth in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all indian astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even without a zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in vedas ) Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is beingpractised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed toexist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrologymust have been propagated from the day one of creation--that meansabout two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accuratefor making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamshabeing the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is thenumber one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamshabeats all the others and so on! ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than pumping some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this .The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques andayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date ofUttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc.and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali orViajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander which is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur understanding abt vedas which u never explained to us . other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets etc r fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not mentioned in vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find we were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav some other arguemnts against it too ) Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate yourlarger than life ego? ######Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to betaken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedicnor scientific. ### Think whose logic is useless . Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read books or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic astrology . I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times with exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried too ,even u all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in seeing it . also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont invite me /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . regrds M varma . , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Maheswara Vermaji,> Namaskar!> <he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's> reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his> understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later > as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions>> > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-> vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---> that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis!> Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> existent rashis!> Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic astrology" > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas!> > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > attempted it till date! Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific!> > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. As per their own > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > correct to the nearest decimal second!> You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier > of later by at least three hours and so on!> I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > the mlechha!> > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets > affect every individual individually and that also through some > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu-> Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > beats all the others and so on! > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > larger than life ego?> Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > nor scientific.> Dhanyavad.> A K Kaul> > > > , "maheswara_varma" > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> >> > > > dear sanat ji and group .> > > > poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he > mentioned> > everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth > deliberately > > ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply> > brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental > like> > this (esp sri kaul ji ) .> > > > > > > > because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is> > true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also > told> > me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply> > passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri > kaul's> > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his> > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything > later as> > it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless> > countering questions will also strt which happened in many others > case> > ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a> > science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a> > point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums > (> > all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions > other> > than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to > basics .As it> > is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than> > going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply> > asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r > known> > then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for> > answers too .> > > > > > > > he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in> > actual way .> > > > then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will > do .> > > > > > > > even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud > which i> > think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds > exprnces how> > can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( > search of> > truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo > intellectual> > points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving > answers> > for the queries he raised ,> > > > > > > > asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or> > scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami> > vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is > adamance> > ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some > secret> > missions /agenda.> > > > now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they> > faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all > in the> > lite of astro .> > > > but write to me personaly .> > > > > > > > maheswara varma .> > > > ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i > may or> > may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by > queriests> > .> > > > also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a> > support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash > his> > address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal > links> > which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r > serious> > in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) .> > > > > > , "sanat2221"> > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members,> > > Namaskar,> > > Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member,> > > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we> > > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there > are> > > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they > will> > > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing > and> > > must maintain a mutual regard.> > >> > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have> > > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street > dogs.> > > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with> > > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only > discussing> > > about various points, which is being raised or supported by> > > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their > point> > > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive > language. I> > > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith > supported> > > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has> > > answered my basic question narrated in my blog "astrology a > science> > > or myth". They used to divert the matter and even then they are > not> > > able to substantiate their own points.> > >> > > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are > following> > > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main > point is> > > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, > which is> > > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may> > > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic.> > >> > > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was> > > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may> > > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each> > > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will > say> > > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every > one> > > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe> > > elephant.> > >> > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is > created> > > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it > is> > > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by> > > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio,> > > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion,> > > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our> > > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names > with> > > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious> > > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any > principle> > > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on.> > >> > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith, > is> > > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by> > > astrologer for their livelihood.> > >> > > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version > after> > > receiving some reaction of the members.> > >> > > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of> > > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. > They> > > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job,> > > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams > but> > > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every > thing> > > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in> > > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation > have> > > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the > challenges,> > > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of> > > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams> > > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted > for> > > life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind > him> > > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some> > > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will > be> > > good, and he looses his struggling capacity.> > >> > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face > odd> > > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must> > > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience,> > > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve > etc.> > > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe > in> > > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our> > > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to> > > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will > like> > > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of> > > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on > astrology),> > > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal. > No> > > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try > to> > > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important> > > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or> > > psychological game.> > >> > > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their> > > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive> > > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the gateway> > of> > > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic > hence> > > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take> > > active part in discussion.> > >> > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to > follow> > > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we > may> > > continue our interaction.> > >> > > Thanks,> > >> > > Sanat> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) Namaskar! <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again may bmillions of them r there> For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and Mangal and Shani etc. planets. Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern astronomy! <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in several forums including and HinduCalendar forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to give the exact quotations! <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent devlpemnts in india.> Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of statecraft than Hitler! Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out such harsh facts to you! Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep slumber of ignorance! Dhanyavad. AKK , " maheswara_varma " <maheswara_varma wrote: > > > > > dear kaul ji > > namaskar to u > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again may b > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also told > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) not > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > introduction > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv in > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud learn > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > fabricated . > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is not > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he said .Again > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking questions to > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur points > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > last 20 days > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i stress > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to the > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > existent rashis! > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > #### > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so without > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b names > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated in > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help of > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find lost > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it is > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no time to > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we shud b > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or what > ever it is . > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name is > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > devlpemnts in india . > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all gurus > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and india > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and non > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when reverence > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i dont > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > purposes . > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > attempted it till date! > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro frm > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says yevana are > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of some > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( sun > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not stars > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa to > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in nadi > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud depend > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a zodiac ??is > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him fraud > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which even > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted that > stanza > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is fate > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right direction > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field esp > in this kali era . > > > > > > As per their own > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical in > applying other than pure mathematics . > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission (chandrayaan > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > still going on to make sure of it . > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > ### > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual reports > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are generaly > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they trained > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i dont > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 hrs or > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier > of later by at least three hours and so on! > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > the mlechha! > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go and > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of world > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv astrologers > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets > affect every individual individually and that also through some > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu- > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all indian > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even without a > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in vedas > ) > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > beats all the others and so on! > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than pumping > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander which > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur understanding > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets etc r > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not mentioned in > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find we > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav some > other arguemnts against it too ) > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > larger than life ego? > > ###### [] > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > nor scientific. > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read books > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > astrology . > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times with > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried too ,even u > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in seeing > it . > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont invite me > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > regrds M varma . > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Maheswara Vermaji, > > Namaskar! > > <he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri kaul's > > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything later > > as it needs lot of time to explain all their questions> > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas- vis- > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha- -- > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > existent rashis! > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic astrology " > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science it > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > attempted it till date! Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more than > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. As per their own > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place earlier > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > the mlechha! > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. planets > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or Manduka > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my Rahu- > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system or > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date of > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > larger than life ego? > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > nor scientific. > > Dhanyavad. > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > dear sanat ji and group . > > > > > > poor vijayaraghavan ,he thought this is a logical forum ,he > > mentioned > > > everything but the moderaters r not for seeing the truth > > deliberately > > > ,they r putting one science in shoes of other science .Or simply > > > brushing aside with statements it is common or fluke or accidental > > like > > > this (esp sri kaul ji ) . > > > > > > > > > > > > because the aim is diffrnt i also blv ,what ever points he raised is > > > true and valid but his lack of time ( when i contcted him he also > > told > > > me he cannot wait till end of the world ,as he told me they r simply > > > passing time ).he posted diffrnt things even on futility of sri > > kaul's > > > reserch and so called claims ,he also asked him to show his > > > understanding of vedas .he even told he will explain everything > > later as > > > it needs lot of time to explain all their questions ( as useless > > > countering questions will also strt which happened in many others > > case > > > ,as the main question is ,is astrology is usefull than is it is a > > > science or myth or wheter we got frm greek or US ) ,so he made it a > > > point to see collectively the results of all those rishi 's dictums > > ( > > > all grp shud participate and he was not imposing any conditions > > other > > > than this ) ,so first see results and then let us go to > > basics .As it > > > is more easy for novice s who joined to know what is astrology than > > > going round the world with mutable/twistable answers .Then simply > > > asking questions to prolongate the discussions .But once results r > > known > > > then basics r easy to to exlain too .Then every one may not wait for > > > answers too . > > > > > > > > > > > > he waited for 20 days to get a positiv reply or a effort to see in > > > actual way . > > > > > > then strted getting voilent as any man blvs in quality time will > > do . > > > > > > > > > > > > even he dont use any bad languge other than words fool or fraud > > which i > > > think is true ,because when some one rejects all the worlds > > exprnces how > > > can we act cooly .Fist of all where was quality discussion ( > > search of > > > truth ) frm the moderaters side than repeating some pseudo > > intellectual > > > points which is ready made too or twisting the points and giving > > answers > > > for the queries he raised , > > > > > > > > > > > > asking others to see or answer only in our way is not logic or > > > scientific if some one wants to see the truth ( for exmple swami > > > vivekanda and sri ramakrishna paramahamsa dailogues ) ,it is > > adamance > > > ,unscientific and i think we can call those ppl with having some > > secret > > > missions /agenda. > > > > > > now if some one wants why this days it has happend (i mean why they > > > faced this carpet bombing in this grp ) i will explain to u all > > in the > > > lite of astro . > > > > > > but write to me personaly . > > > > > > > > > > > > maheswara varma . > > > > > > ps --I wrote this as my opinion and further discussion on this i > > may or > > > may not participate depending on constructv approach raised by > > queriests > > > . > > > > > > also sri sanat ji -dont count on some one who posted a mail is a > > > support for u ,any intelligent persons can see it is a way to flash > > his > > > address and some future business ,pls ban all address or personal > > links > > > which is self promoting in future communications in grp,if u r > > serious > > > in ur approach ( again it is my suggestions only ) . > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > > <sanatkumar_jain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal Ji and members, > > > > Namaskar, > > > > Yes, episode is over. Actually I do not want to ban any member, > > > > otherwise very purpose of discussion is defeated. But after all we > > > > have to maintain some discipline. We all are educated and there > > are > > > > many lady members, senior as well as junior members. What they > > will > > > > think about us? Hence we must have some etiquette while writing > > and > > > > must maintain a mutual regard. > > > > > > > > I have already mentioned in my welcome note that we may have > > > > difference, but it does not mean that we may behave like street > > dogs. > > > > I have always encouraged that every one may support his stand with > > > > strong logic. Since the beginning of the forum I am only > > discussing > > > > about various points, which is being raised or supported by > > > > astrologer, hence when I ask for further clarification on their > > point > > > > then they either left, or observe silence or use abusive > > language. I > > > > do not know what they want to prove with their blind faith > > supported > > > > by filthy language. Since the very beginning no astrologer has > > > > answered my basic question narrated in my blog " astrology a > > science > > > > or myth " . They used to divert the matter and even then they are > > not > > > > able to substantiate their own points. > > > > > > > > Actually it makes no difference as to how many persons are > > following > > > > predictive astrology or how many are against astrology. Main > > point is > > > > both must have their logic. I have never disclosed my stand, > > which is > > > > already in my book. I am simply asking astrologer so that they may > > > > substantiate as to how astrology is science or Vedic. > > > > > > > > Till then general public may be aware as to what procedure was > > > > adopted for formulating the principle till then every one may > > > > continue to follow his own way, which are quite opposite to each > > > > other. Like some one say traditional astrology is good some will > > say > > > > KP, some say western and some say Lal kitab and so on. Thus every > > one > > > > is behaving like blind persons who have been asked to describe > > > > elephant. > > > > > > > > General public thinks that it is science, it is vedic it is > > created > > > > by our sages. But neither predictive astrology is science nor it > > is > > > > vedic nor it is created by our sages (yes it was only developed by > > > > our sages). Even sign like Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, > > > > Sagittarius etc. has no significance in any Indian religion, > > > > tradition, stories etc. So how these signs may be creation of our > > > > sages. We are actually degrading them with linking their names > > with > > > > some other religious concept. Whereas every sign has religious > > > > background of Greece. Likewise there is no mention of any > > principle > > > > in Ved nor they know about the solar system and so on. > > > > > > > > When we are analyzing then we must know as to whether our faith, > > is > > > > based on some truth or it is just a blind faith promoted by > > > > astrologer for their livelihood. > > > > > > > > I have many points to discuss. But I will continue my version > > after > > > > receiving some reaction of the members. > > > > > > > > I find that so many new members have joined the forum, and most of > > > > them are quite young. I welcome every new member in our forum. > > They > > > > have just entered in the struggle of life in the form of job, > > > > marriage, promotion, salary etc. In this age every one has dreams > > but > > > > without struggling capacity, like a kid who want to see every > > thing > > > > in trade-fair but he is not having sufficient skill to save him in > > > > the crowd and thus he become easy pray. Likewise new generation > > have > > > > dreams but not the self-confidence, ability to accept the > > challenges, > > > > hard work, patience and so on. Thus they become easy prey of > > > > astrologer. Who either infuse fear complex or some distant dreams > > > > along with some remedy circus. Thus their tender mind is polluted > > for > > > > life long and they continue to think that every planet is behind > > him > > > > and his only job to create problems. Thus he is in search of some > > > > remedy or some consolation from astrologer that your period will > > be > > > > good, and he looses his struggling capacity. > > > > > > > > My mission is very clear that every one must have courage to face > > odd > > > > situation, he must acquire knowledge, must improve his logic, must > > > > have scientific aptitude, ready to work hard, have patience, > > > > regularly try for his success, have some clear dream to achieve > > etc. > > > > Astrology is our heritage like a fort but we can not remain safe > > in > > > > fort in the era of missile. Likewise ancient knowledge is our > > > > heritage, we must have proud over it but we can neither go back to > > > > forest / hut nor we can survive with that knowledge. So I will > > like > > > > to request all young members that never fall in the trap of > > > > astrologer (this I am saying after +35 years of study on > > astrology), > > > > and I am also not going to earn any thing from this alert signal. > > No > > > > doubt astronomy is a good subject (which is Vedic too) hence try > > to > > > > learn about it but not predictive astrology for deciding important > > > > factors of life, because astrology is merely a form of magic or > > > > psychological game. > > > > > > > > I am inviting every young member to come forward and raise their > > > > question on astrology either inquisitive or learning or supportive > > > > etc….Always remember that every unanswered question is the > gateway > > > of > > > > knowledge and discussion is the best way to improve your logic > > hence > > > > never kill your inquisitiveness. So do not be a silent reader take > > > > active part in discussion. > > > > > > > > I will also like to know as to how many members will like to > > follow > > > > my advise, and what is the opinion of elder members, so that we > > may > > > > continue our interaction. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 dear kaul ji Namaskar Thanks for ur mail . i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own observations are coming back as questions . for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . so here my revised questions for ur answers . so answer this pls 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r which nationality ?? 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur narration or understanding of astronomy in it . Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc etc ) 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in vedas . 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is wrong .and thesis . More in next after i got answers . hope this time u dont miss points dhanyavad regrds M Varma , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?)> Namaskar!> <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > may bmillions of them r there>> > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions!> > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > Mangal and Shani etc. planets.> Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > astronomy!> > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??>> > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > several forums including and HinduCalendar > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated anywhere > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE!> It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage!> Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > give the exact quotations! > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> devlpemnts in india.>> > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > statecraft than Hitler!> > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas!> So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed!> > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic-> astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you!> > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > such harsh facts to you!> Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > slumber of ignorance!> Dhanyavad.> AKK> > > > > , "maheswara_varma" > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear kaul ji> > > > namaskar to u> > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name,> > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > may b> > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > told> > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > not> > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just> > introduction> > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden> > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > in> > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > learn> > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or> > fabricated .> > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .> > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when> > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > not> > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > said .Again> > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > questions to> > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > points> > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont> > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for> > last 20 days> > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > stress> > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > the> > grp and clear off in a decent manner )> > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-> > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from> > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous> > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---> > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis!> > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,> > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated> > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and> > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and> > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the> > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the> > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> > existent rashis!> > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic > astrology"> > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas!> > > > ####> > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv> > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics> > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > without> > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > names> > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent> > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > in> > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > of> > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > lost> > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > is> > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose .> > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > time to> > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > shud b> > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > what> > ever it is .> > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > name is> > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> > devlpemnts in india .> > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what> > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > gurus> > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > india> > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > non> > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > reverence> > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > dont> > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material> > purposes .> > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > it> > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the> > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!> > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has> > attempted it till date!> > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in> > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental> > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even> > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic> > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose> > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually> > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which> > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal> > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific!> > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > frm> > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana> > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > yevana are> > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > some> > rishis like nagas or asuras .> > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > sun> > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ).> > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not > stars> > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa > to> > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > nadi> > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > depend> > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > zodiac ??is> > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > fraud> > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > even> > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > that> > stanza >> > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,> > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > than> > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions.> > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > fate> > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > direction> > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems .> > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > esp> > in this kali era .> > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own> > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > in> > applying other than pure mathematics .> > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > (chandrayaan> > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4> > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests> > still going on to make sure of it .> > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a> > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses> > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse> > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also> > correct to the nearest decimal second!> > > > ###> > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > reports> > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv )> > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > generaly> > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > trained> > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and> > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in> > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also> > availability of such gurus and gurukulas.> > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or> > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > dont> > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > hrs or> > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say .> > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers> > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in> > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is> > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > earlier> > of later by at least three hours and so on!> > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in> > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if> > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya> > the mlechha!> > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > and> > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > world> > renounced astronomers and scientists .> > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the> > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you> > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > astrologers> > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt> > branch all together after intitial some assossiations .> > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive> > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > planets> > affect every individual individually and that also through some> > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > Manduka> > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30> > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > Rahu-> > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are> > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > or> > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like> > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another> > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences!> > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > indian> > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones> > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > without a> > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > vedas> > )> > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to> > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology> > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means> > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,> > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate> > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha> > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the> > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha> > beats all the others and so on!> > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > pumping> > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this .> > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and> > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > of> > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc.> > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or> > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > which> > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7> > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > understanding> > abt vedas which u never explained to us .> > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > etc r> > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > mentioned in> > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > we> > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > some> > other arguemnts against it too )> > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your> > larger than life ego?> > > > ###### []> > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be> > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic> > nor scientific.> > > > ### Think whose logic is useless .> > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > books> > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont> > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur> > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic> > astrology .> > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > with> > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > too ,even u> > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > seeing> > it .> > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > invite me> > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me .> > > > > > > > regrds M varma . 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Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Shri Maheswara Varmaji, Namaskar! You are discussing predictive gimmicks vis-a-vis the Vedas and also modern astronomy! Instead of sticking to the points of discussions, you are raising irrelevant and immaterial questions just to obfuscate the issue! If you have really some knowledge of the Vedas and other shastras, and even modern astronomy, do contribute something worthwhile to the discussions. Otherwise just keep quiet! For example, if you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, you have to tell us as to which Vedic astronomical work was used by Vedic rishis for calculatign horoscopes etc. You have to prove it that there were such astronomical works and not raise unnecessary extraneous issues! My stand is that prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha, there was no mention of any Mesha,Vrisha etc. rashis in any of the indigenous astronomical works. You have to prove me wrong by quoting the exact shlokas from the astronomical works that talked of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis before Surya Sidhanta! Since Varahamihra has praised the Surya Sidhanta as spashta-taro savitrah, it means that he was preparig horoscopes etc. from the panchangas based on that very work. The Surya Sidhanta has absolutely wrong fundamental arguments, which means that if anybody could make correct predictions from the horoscopes based on those astronomical parameters, he must have been a charlatan---because only charlatans can make correct predictions from incorrect data! You have also to tell us as to which phalita jyotisha books were around before Sphujidwaja's Yavana Jatakam, on the basis of which predictions based on Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were made. You have to prove your stand, since you claim to be a jyotishi according to whom rashi based predictive gimmicks are of Indian origin. Regardig there being about half a dozen horoscopes of Bhagwan Rama ranging from 157 BCE to 9000 BCE prepared by various Vedic astrologers on the basis of one and the same Valmiki Ramayana, it is clear that all of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! No planetary phenomenon repeats itself in toto about half a dozen times just within a span of 10000 years! As such, the horoscopes of Bhagwan Ram floating around are the worst concoctions! LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST POINT, YOU HAVE TO TELL US AS TO WHY " VEDIC ASTROLOGERS " ARE COMPELLING US TO CELEBRATE UTTARAYANA ON JANUARY 15 INSTEAD OF DECEMBER 21. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY OUR PANCHANGAS ARE NOT BEING MADE AS PER THE VEDANGA JYOTISHA, WHICH TALKS OF MADHU, MADHAVA ETC. MONTHS AND INSTEAD OF LAHIRI MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY, IF AT ALL ALL WE HAVE TO USE MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHI, why ARE WE NOT USING THE PAURANIC MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS INSTEAD OF LAHIRI OR RAMANA RASHIS ETC., WHICH MEANS THAT IF AT ALL THERE IS ANY MAKAR SANKRANTI AS PER THE PURANAS, IT IS THE SHORTEST DAY OF THE YEAR--KNOWN AS UTTARAYANA/WINTER SOLSTICE. Same is the case with all the other Rashis of the Puranas---they are all related to a seaosonal year! Why are " Vedic astrologers " making us celebrate all the sankrantis on Lahiri Rashichakra instead of the Pauranic Rashichakra? Don't you think " Vedic astrologers " are making the entire Hindu community dharma-brast thus? What are you going to do about it? Dhnyavad. AKK , " maheswara_varma " <maheswara_varma wrote: > > > > > dear kaul ji > > Namaskar > > > > Thanks for ur mail . > > > > i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > observations are coming back as questions . > > for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even > so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can > do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get > similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . > > Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . > > > > so here my revised questions for ur answers . > > > > so answer this pls > > > > 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and > nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name > in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . > > > > 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas > > Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in > any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas > ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real > proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? > > > > also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl > ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r > which nationality ?? > > > > 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . > > > > if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? > > > > 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also > > > > > > If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > narration or understanding of astronomy in it . > > Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . > > > > 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came > etc etc ) > > > > 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > vedas . > > 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > wrong .and thesis . > > > > More in next after i got answers . > > > > hope this time u dont miss points > > > > dhanyavad > > > > regrds M Varma , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > Namaskar! > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > astronomy! > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > several forums including and HinduCalendar > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > give the exact quotations! > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > such harsh facts to you! > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > slumber of ignorance! > > Dhanyavad. > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > may b > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > told > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > not > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > introduction > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > in > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > learn > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > fabricated . > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > not > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > said .Again > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > questions to > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > points > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > last 20 days > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > stress > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > the > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas- vis- > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > existent rashis! > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > astrology " > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > #### > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > without > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > names > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > in > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > of > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > lost > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > is > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > time to > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > shud b > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > what > > > ever it is . > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > name is > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > gurus > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > india > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > non > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > reverence > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > > dont > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > it > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > frm > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > yevana are > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > some > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > sun > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > stars > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > to > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > nadi > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > depend > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > zodiac ??is > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > fraud > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > even > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > that > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > than > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > fate > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > direction > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > esp > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > in > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > (chandrayaan > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > ### > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > reports > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > generaly > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > trained > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > dont > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > hrs or > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > earlier > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > and > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > world > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > astrologers > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > planets > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > Manduka > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > Rahu- > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > or > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > indian > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > without a > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > vedas > > > ) > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > pumping > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > of > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > which > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > understanding > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > etc r > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > mentioned in > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > we > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > some > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > ###### [] > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > books > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > astrology . > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > with > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > too ,even u > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > seeing > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > invite me > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Hello everybody,It is really really stinking over here. People are trying to prove who is great, and are unnessarily wating time. I request everyone who is trying to prove that he/she is great, to spend his/her time in some useful and constuctive activity. The mails I receive in this regard are rediculus.Regards,SendilAvtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:54:14 PM Re: Message to all Shri Maheswara Varmaji, Namaskar! You are discussing predictive gimmicks vis-a-vis the Vedas and also modern astronomy! Instead of sticking to the points of discussions, you are raising irrelevant and immaterial questions just to obfuscate the issue! If you have really some knowledge of the Vedas and other shastras, and even modern astronomy, do contribute something worthwhile to the discussions. Otherwise just keep quiet! For example, if you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, you have to tell us as to which Vedic astronomical work was used by Vedic rishis for calculatign horoscopes etc. You have to prove it that there were such astronomical works and not raise unnecessary extraneous issues! My stand is that prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha, there was no mention of any Mesha,Vrisha etc. rashis in any of the indigenous astronomical works. You have to prove me wrong by quoting the exact shlokas from the astronomical works that talked of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis before Surya Sidhanta! Since Varahamihra has praised the Surya Sidhanta as spashta-taro savitrah, it means that he was preparig horoscopes etc. from the panchangas based on that very work. The Surya Sidhanta has absolutely wrong fundamental arguments, which means that if anybody could make correct predictions from the horoscopes based on those astronomical parameters, he must have been a charlatan--- because only charlatans can make correct predictions from incorrect data! You have also to tell us as to which phalita jyotisha books were around before Sphujidwaja' s Yavana Jatakam, on the basis of which predictions based on Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were made. You have to prove your stand, since you claim to be a jyotishi according to whom rashi based predictive gimmicks are of Indian origin. Regardig there being about half a dozen horoscopes of Bhagwan Rama ranging from 157 BCE to 9000 BCE prepared by various Vedic astrologers on the basis of one and the same Valmiki Ramayana, it is clear that all of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! No planetary phenomenon repeats itself in toto about half a dozen times just within a span of 10000 years! As such, the horoscopes of Bhagwan Ram floating around are the worst concoctions! LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST POINT, YOU HAVE TO TELL US AS TO WHY "VEDIC ASTROLOGERS" ARE COMPELLING US TO CELEBRATE UTTARAYANA ON JANUARY 15 INSTEAD OF DECEMBER 21. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY OUR PANCHANGAS ARE NOT BEING MADE AS PER THE VEDANGA JYOTISHA, WHICH TALKS OF MADHU, MADHAVA ETC. MONTHS AND INSTEAD OF LAHIRI MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY, IF AT ALL ALL WE HAVE TO USE MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHI, why ARE WE NOT USING THE PAURANIC MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS INSTEAD OF LAHIRI OR RAMANA RASHIS ETC., WHICH MEANS THAT IF AT ALL THERE IS ANY MAKAR SANKRANTI AS PER THE PURANAS, IT IS THE SHORTEST DAY OF THE YEAR--KNOWN AS UTTARAYANA/WINTER SOLSTICE. Same is the case with all the other Rashis of the Puranas---they are all related to a seaosonal year! Why are "Vedic astrologers" making us celebrate all the sankrantis on Lahiri Rashichakra instead of the Pauranic Rashichakra? Don't you think "Vedic astrologers" are making the entire Hindu community dharma-brast thus? What are you going to do about it? Dhnyavad. AKK , "maheswara_varma" <maheswara_varma@ ...> wrote: > > > > > dear kaul ji > > Namaskar > > > > Thanks for ur mail . > > > > i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > observations are coming back as questions . > > for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even > so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can > do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get > similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . > > Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . > > > > so here my revised questions for ur answers . > > > > so answer this pls > > > > 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and > nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name > in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . > > > > 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas > > Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in > any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas > ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real > proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? > > > > also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl > ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r > which nationality ?? > > > > 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . > > > > if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? > > > > 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also > > > > > > If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > narration or understanding of astronomy in it . > > Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . > > > > 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came > etc etc ) > > > > 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > vedas . > > 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > wrong .and thesis . > > > > More in next after i got answers . > > > > hope this time u dont miss points > > > > dhanyavad > > > > regrds M Varma > > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > Namaskar! > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > astronomy! > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > several forums including ancient_indian_ astrology and HinduCalendar > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated anywhere > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > give the exact quotations! > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrolog er who wanted to hoodwink > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic- > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > such harsh facts to you! > > Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > slumber of ignorance! > > Dhanyavad. > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > , "maheswara_varma" > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > may b > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > told > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > not > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > introduction > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > in > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > learn > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > fabricated . > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > not > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > said .Again > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > questions to > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > points > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > last 20 days > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > stress > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > the > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas- vis- > > > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > existent rashis! > > > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic > > astrology" > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > #### > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > without > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > names > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > in > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > of > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > lost > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > is > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > time to > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > shud b > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > what > > > ever it is . > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > name is > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > gurus > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > india > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > non > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > reverence > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > > dont > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > it > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately? ) unaware that the > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > divisions/compatmen ts like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal > > > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > frm > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > yevana are > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > some > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > sun > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not > > stars > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa > > to > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > nadi > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > depend > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > zodiac ??is > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > fraud > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > even > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > that > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > than > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > fate > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > direction > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > esp > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > in > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > (chandrayaan > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > ### > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > reports > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > generaly > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > trained > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > dont > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > hrs or > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > earlier > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > and > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > world > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > astrologers > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > planets > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > Manduka > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > Rahu- > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > or > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > indian > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > without a > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > vedas > > > ) > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > for making predictions- --Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > pumping > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > of > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > which > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > understanding > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > etc r > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > mentioned in > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > we > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > some > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > ###### [] > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > books > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > astrology . > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > with > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > too ,even u > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > seeing > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > invite me > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 hi sendil i agree with you. Simi--- On Wed, 10/22/08, sendil kumar <kpsendilkumar wrote: sendil kumar <kpsendilkumarRe: Re: Message to all Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 2:59 AM Hello everybody, It is really really stinking over here. People are trying to prove who is great, and are unnessarily wating time. I request everyone who is trying to prove that he/she is great, to spend his/her time in some useful and constuctive activity. The mails I receive in this regard are rediculus. Regards, Sendil Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:54:14 PM Re: Message to all Shri Maheswara Varmaji,Namaskar!You are discussing predictive gimmicks vis-a-vis the Vedas and also modern astronomy!Instead of sticking to the points of discussions, you are raising irrelevant and immaterial questions just to obfuscate the issue!If you have really some knowledge of the Vedas and other shastras, and even modern astronomy, do contribute something worthwhile to the discussions. Otherwise just keep quiet!For example, if you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, you have to tell us as to which Vedic astronomical work was used by Vedic rishis for calculatign horoscopes etc.You have to prove it that there were such astronomical works and not raise unnecessary extraneous issues!My stand is that prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha, there was no mention of any Mesha,Vrisha etc. rashis in any of the indigenous astronomical works. You have to prove me wrong by quoting the exact shlokas from the astronomical works that talked of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis before Surya Sidhanta!Since Varahamihra has praised the Surya Sidhanta as spashta-taro savitrah, it means that he was preparig horoscopes etc. from the panchangas based on that very work. The Surya Sidhanta has absolutely wrong fundamental arguments, which means that if anybody could make correct predictions from the horoscopes based on those astronomical parameters, he must have been a charlatan--- because only charlatans can make correct predictions from incorrect data!You have also to tell us as to which phalita jyotisha books were around before Sphujidwaja' s Yavana Jatakam, on the basis of which predictions based on Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were made. You have to prove your stand, since you claim to be a jyotishi according to whom rashi based predictive gimmicks are of Indian origin.Regardig there being about half a dozen horoscopes of Bhagwan Rama ranging from 157 BCE to 9000 BCE prepared by various Vedic astrologers on the basis of one and the same Valmiki Ramayana, it is clear that all of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! No planetary phenomenon repeats itself in toto about half a dozen times just within a span of 10000 years! As such, the horoscopes of Bhagwan Ram floating around are the worst concoctions!LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST POINT, YOU HAVE TO TELL US AS TO WHY "VEDIC ASTROLOGERS" ARE COMPELLING US TO CELEBRATE UTTARAYANA ON JANUARY 15 INSTEAD OF DECEMBER 21. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY OUR PANCHANGAS ARE NOT BEING MADE AS PER THE VEDANGA JYOTISHA, WHICH TALKS OF MADHU, MADHAVA ETC. MONTHS AND INSTEAD OF LAHIRI MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY, IF AT ALL ALL WE HAVE TO USE MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHI, why ARE WE NOT USING THE PAURANIC MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS INSTEAD OF LAHIRI OR RAMANA RASHIS ETC., WHICH MEANS THAT IF AT ALL THERE IS ANY MAKAR SANKRANTI AS PER THE PURANAS, IT IS THE SHORTEST DAY OF THE YEAR--KNOWN AS UTTARAYANA/WINTER SOLSTICE. Same is the case with all the other Rashis of the Puranas---they are all related to a seaosonal year! Why are "Vedic astrologers" making us celebrate all the sankrantis on Lahiri Rashichakra instead of the Pauranic Rashichakra?Don't you think "Vedic astrologers" are making the entire Hindu community dharma-brast thus? What are you going to do about it? Dhnyavad.AKK, "maheswara_varma" <maheswara_varma@ ...> wrote:>> > > > dear kaul ji> > Namaskar> > > > Thanks for ur mail .> > > > i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own> observations are coming back as questions .> > for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a> back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even> so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can> do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I> think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even> possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get> similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs .> > Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to> prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .> > > > so here my revised questions for ur answers ..> > > > so answer this pls> > > > 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in> sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and> nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name> in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two .> > > > 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas> > Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in> any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas> ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real> proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??> > > > also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha> s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl> ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r> which nationality ??> > > > 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4> nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .> > > > if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??> > > > 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5> planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also> > > > > > If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date> of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur> narration or understanding of astronomy in it .> > Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or> dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .> > > > 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And> indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us> charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came> etc etc )> > > > 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in> vedas .> > 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is> wrong .and thesis .> > > > More in next after i got answers .> > > > hope this time u dont miss points> > > > dhanyavad> > > > regrds M Varma> > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> <jyotirved@> wrote:> >> > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?)> > Namaskar!> > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again> > may bmillions of them r there>> >> > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions!> >> > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of> > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which> > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and> > Mangal and Shani etc. planets.> > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA> > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from> > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern> > astronomy!> >> > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so> > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??>> >> > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in> > several forums including ancient_indian_ astrology and HinduCalendar> > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was> > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking> > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated anywhere> > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE!> > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone> > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called> > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are> > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by> > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage!> > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in> > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to> > give the exact quotations!> >> > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name> > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> > devlpemnts in india.>> >> > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not> > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrolog er who wanted to hoodwink> > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of> > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted> > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of> > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but> > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of> > statecraft than Hitler!> >> > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from> > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now> > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most> > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they> > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of> > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was> > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas!> > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your> > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed!> >> > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who> > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them> > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can> > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge> > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the> > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call> > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And> > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets> > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic-> > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the> > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you!> >> > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out> > such harsh facts to you!> > Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep> > slumber of ignorance!> > Dhanyavad.> > AKK> >> >> >> >> > , "maheswara_varma"> > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > dear kaul ji> > >> > > namaskar to u> > >> > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name,> > >> > >> > >> > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again> > may b> > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also> > told> > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac )> > not> > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just> > > introduction> > >> > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden> > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv> > in> > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud> > learn> > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or> > > fabricated .> > >> > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .> > >> > >> > >> > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when> > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is> > not> > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he> > said .Again> > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking> > questions to> > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur> > points> > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont> > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for> > > last 20 days> > >> > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i> > stress> > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to> > the> > > grp and clear off in a decent manner )> > >> > >> > >> > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-> > > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from> > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous> > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---> > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis!> > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,> > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated> > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and> > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and> > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the> > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the> > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> > > existent rashis!> > > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic> > astrology"> > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas!> > >> > > ####> > >> > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv> > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics> > >> > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so> > without> > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b> > names> > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent> > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated> > in> > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help> > of> > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find> > lost> > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it> > is> > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose .> > >> > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no> > time to> > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we> > shud b> > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or> > what> > > ever it is .> > >> > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u> > name is> > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> > > devlpemnts in india .> > >> > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what> > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all> > gurus> > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and> > india> > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and> > non> > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when> > reverence> > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i> > dont> > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material> > > purposes .> > >> > >> > >> > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science> > it> > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately? ) unaware that the> > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> > > divisions/compatmen ts like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!> > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has> > > attempted it till date!> > >> > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in> > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental> > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even> > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic> > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose> > >> > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually> > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which> > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal> > > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific!> > >> > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro> > frm> > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana> > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says> > yevana are> > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of> > some> > > rishis like nagas or asuras .> > >> > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months (> > sun> > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ).> > >> > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not> > stars> > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa> > to> > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in> > nadi> > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud> > depend> > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a> > zodiac ??is> > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him> > fraud> > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which> > even> > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted> > that> > > stanza >> > >> > >> > >> > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,> > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more> > than> > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions.> > >> > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is> > fate> > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right> > direction> > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems .> > >> > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field> > esp> > > in this kali era .> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > As per their own> > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> > >> > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical> > in> > > applying other than pure mathematics .> > >> > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission> > (chandrayaan> > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4> > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests> > > still going on to make sure of it .> > >> > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a> > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses> > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse> > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also> > > correct to the nearest decimal second!> > >> > > ###> > >> > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual> > reports> > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv )> > >> > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are> > generaly> > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they> > trained> > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and> > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in> > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also> > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas.> > >> > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or> > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i> > dont> > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3> > hrs or> > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say .> > >> > >> > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers> > > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in> > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is> > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place> > earlier> > > of later by at least three hours and so on!> > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in> > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if> > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya> > > the mlechha!> > >> > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go> > and> > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of> > world> > > renounced astronomers and scientists .> > >> > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the> > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you> > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> > >> > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv> > astrologers> > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt> > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations .> > >> > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive> > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc.> > planets> > > affect every individual individually and that also through some> > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or> > Manduka> > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30> > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my> > Rahu-> > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are> > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system> > or> > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like> > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another> > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences!> > >> > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all> > indian> > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones> > >> > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even> > without a> > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in> > vedas> > > )> > >> > >> > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to> > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology> > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means> > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,> > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate> > > for making predictions- --Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha> > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the> > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha> > > beats all the others and so on!> > >> > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than> > pumping> > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this .> > >> > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and> > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date> > of> > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc.> > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or> > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > >> > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander> > which> > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7> > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur> > understanding> > > abt vedas which u never explained to us .> > >> > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets> > etc r> > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not> > mentioned in> > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find> > we> > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav> > some> > > other arguemnts against it too )> > >> > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your> > > larger than life ego?> > >> > > ###### []> > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be> > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic> > > nor scientific.> > >> > > ### Think whose logic is useless .> > >> > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read> > books> > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont> > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur> > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic> > > astrology .> > >> > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times> > with> > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried> > too ,even u> > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in> > seeing> > > it .> > >> > >> > >> > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont> > invite me> > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me .> > >> > >> > >> > > regrds M varma .> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate.regards "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma <maheswara_varma wrote: dear kaul ji Namaskar Thanks for ur mail . i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own observations are coming back as questions . for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . so here my revised questions for ur answers . so answer this pls 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r which nationality ?? 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur narration or understanding of astronomy in it . Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc etc ) 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in vedas . 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is wrong .and thesis . More in next after i got answers . hope this time u dont miss points dhanyavad regrds M Varma , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > Namaskar!> <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > may bmillions of them r there>> > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions!> > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > Mangal and Shani etc. planets.> Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > astronomy!> > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??>> > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > several forums including and HinduCalendar > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE!> It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage!> Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > give the exact quotations! > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > devlpemnts in india.>> > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > statecraft than Hitler!> > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas!> So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you!> > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > such harsh facts to you!> Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > slumber of ignorance!> Dhanyavad.> AKK> > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear kaul ji> > > > namaskar to u> > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > may b> > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > told > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > not> > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just> > introduction> > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > in> > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > learn> > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > fabricated .> > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .> > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > not> > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > said .Again> > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > questions to> > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > points> > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont> > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > last 20 days> > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > stress> > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > the > > grp and clear off in a decent manner )> > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-> > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous> > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---> > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,> > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated> > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and> > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the> > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> > existent rashis!> > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > astrology " > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > ####> > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv> > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics> > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > without> > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > names> > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent> > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > in> > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > of> > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > lost> > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > is> > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose .> > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > time to> > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > shud b> > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > what> > ever it is .> > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > name is> > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> > devlpemnts in india .> > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > gurus> > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > india> > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > non> > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > reverence> > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > dont> > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > purposes .> > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > it> > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!> > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > attempted it till date!> > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in> > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental> > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic> > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose> > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which> > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal> > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > frm> > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana> > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > yevana are> > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > some> > rishis like nagas or asuras .> > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > sun> > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ).> > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > stars> > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > to> > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > nadi> > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > depend> > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > zodiac ??is> > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > fraud> > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > even> > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > that> > stanza >> > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,> > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > than> > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions.> > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > fate> > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > direction> > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems .> > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > esp> > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own> > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > in> > applying other than pure mathematics .> > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > (chandrayaan> > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests> > still going on to make sure of it .> > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses> > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also> > correct to the nearest decimal second!> > > > ###> > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > reports> > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv )> > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > generaly> > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > trained> > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and> > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also> > availability of such gurus and gurukulas.> > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > dont> > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > hrs or> > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers> > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in> > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > earlier> > of later by at least three hours and so on!> > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if> > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya> > the mlechha!> > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > and> > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > world> > renounced astronomers and scientists .> > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you> > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > astrologers> > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt> > branch all together after intitial some assossiations .> > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > planets> > affect every individual individually and that also through some> > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > Manduka> > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30> > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > Rahu-> > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > or> > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like> > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences!> > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > indian> > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > without a> > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > vedas> > )> > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to> > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means> > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,> > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha> > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the> > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > beats all the others and so on!> > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > pumping> > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and> > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > of> > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or> > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > which> > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7> > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > understanding> > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > etc r> > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > mentioned in> > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > we> > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > some> > other arguemnts against it too )> > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > larger than life ego?> > > > ###### []> > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be> > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > nor scientific.> > > > ### Think whose logic is useless .> > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > books> > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur> > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic> > astrology .> > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > with> > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > too ,even u> > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > seeing> > it .> > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > invite me> > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me .> > > > > > > > regrds M varma . 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Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 FAMOUS SAYING OF SRI GURU-NANAKJI. EK NE KAHI, DOOSRE NA MANI, GURUNANAK NE KAHA DONO GYANI. MAHATMA GANDHI: DOOSRE KE UPAAR KABHI GUSSA NAHI KARNA CHHAIYAE, KYOKI WOH IS DUNIYA KE REET SE DOOR HAI" dipika blr <blr.aspirant wrote: Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate.regards "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." Buddha On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma <maheswara_varma > wrote: dear kaul ji Namaskar Thanks for ur mail . i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own observations are coming back as questions . for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . so here my revised questions for ur answers . so answer this pls 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r which nationality ?? 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur narration or understanding of astronomy in it . Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc etc ) 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in vedas . 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is wrong .and thesis . More in next after i got answers . hope this time u dont miss points dhanyavad regrds M Varma , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > Namaskar!> <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > may bmillions of them r there>> > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions!> > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > Mangal and Shani etc. planets.> Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > astronomy!> > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??>> > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > several forums including and HinduCalendar > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated anywhere > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE!> It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage!> Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > give the exact quotations! > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > devlpemnts in india.>> > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > statecraft than Hitler!> > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas!> So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic- > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you!> > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > such harsh facts to you!> Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > slumber of ignorance!> Dhanyavad.> AKK> > > > > --- In , "maheswara_varma" > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear kaul ji> > > > namaskar to u> > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > may b> > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > told > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > not> > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just> > introduction> > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > in> > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > learn> > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > fabricated .> > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .> > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > not> > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > said .Again> > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > questions to> > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > points> > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont> > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > last 20 days> > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > stress> > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > the > > grp and clear off in a decent manner )> > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis-> > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous> > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---> > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,> > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated> > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and> > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the> > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> > existent rashis!> > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic > astrology"> > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > ####> > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv> > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics> > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > without> > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > names> > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent> > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > in> > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > of> > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > lost> > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > is> > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose .> > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > time to> > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > shud b> > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > what> > ever it is .> > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > name is> > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent> > devlpemnts in india .> > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > gurus> > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > india> > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > non> > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > reverence> > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > dont> > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > purposes .> > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > it> > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically!> > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > attempted it till date!> > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in> > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental> > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic> > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose> > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which> > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal> > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > frm> > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana> > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > yevana are> > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > some> > rishis like nagas or asuras .> > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > sun> > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ).> > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not > stars> > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa > to> > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > nadi> > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > depend> > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > zodiac ??is> > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > fraud> > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > even> > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > that> > stanza >> > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi,> > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > than> > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions.> > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > fate> > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > direction> > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems .> > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > esp> > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own> > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment!> > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > in> > applying other than pure mathematics .> > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > (chandrayaan> > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests> > still going on to make sure of it .> > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses> > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also> > correct to the nearest decimal second!> > > > ###> > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > reports> > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv )> > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > generaly> > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > trained> > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and> > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also> > availability of such gurus and gurukulas.> > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > dont> > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > hrs or> > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers> > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in> > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > earlier> > of later by at least three hours and so on!> > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if> > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya> > the mlechha!> > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > and> > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > world> > renounced astronomers and scientists .> > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you> > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > astrologers> > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt> > branch all together after intitial some assossiations .> > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > planets> > affect every individual individually and that also through some> > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > Manduka> > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30> > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > Rahu-> > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > or> > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like> > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences!> > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > indian> > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > without a> > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > vedas> > )> > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to> > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means> > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves,> > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha> > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the> > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > beats all the others and so on!> > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > pumping> > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and> > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > of> > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or> > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > which> > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7> > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > understanding> > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > etc r> > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > mentioned in> > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > we> > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > some> > other arguemnts against it too )> > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > larger than life ego?> > > > ###### []> > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be> > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > nor scientific.> > > > ### Think whose logic is useless .> > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > books> > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur> > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic> > astrology .> > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > with> > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > too ,even u> > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > seeing> > it .> > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > invite me> > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me .> > > > > > > > regrds M varma . binode kripalani numerologist 9831664581(Kolkata) binodeuk binode_kripalani Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! 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Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? Are you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us about yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. Your age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis have you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " degraded carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of us ? Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you Cleopatra ? What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us whoare You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant or a Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that the public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many women on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst those ? If you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if you are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. Bhaskar. , " dipika blr " <blr.aspirant wrote: > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the > civilzed nature of debate. > > regards > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, > then accept it and live up to it. " Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma > > wrote: > > > ** > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > ** > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > ** > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > ** > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > ** > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > ** > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > * * > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r which > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > ** > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > ** > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > ** > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa ..And > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc > > etc ) * > > > > ** > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > > vedas .* > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > ** > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > ** > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > Namaskar! > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > astronomy! > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > several forums including and HinduCalendar > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > Dhanyavad. > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may b > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > > told > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > > not > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > > in > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > learn > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > > not > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > said .Again > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > questions to > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > > points > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > > stress > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > > the > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > existent rashis! > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > astrology " > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > names > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > > in > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > > of > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > > lost > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > > is > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > time to > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > shud b > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > > what > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > name is > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > > gurus > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > india > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > > non > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > reverence > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree ..Even i > > > dont > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > > it > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > > frm > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > yevana are > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > some > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > > sun > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > > stars > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > > to > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > > nadi > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > depend > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > zodiac ??is > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > > fraud > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > > even > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > > that > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > than > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > > fate > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > direction > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > > esp > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > > in > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > (chandrayaan > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > reports > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > generaly > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > trained > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > dont > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > > hrs or > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > earlier > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > > and > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > world > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > astrologers > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > planets > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > Manduka > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > Rahu- > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > > or > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > indian > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > without a > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > > vedas > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > pumping > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > > of > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > > which > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > understanding > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > > etc r > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > mentioned in > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > > we > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > > some > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > books > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > > with > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > too ,even u > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > seeing > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > invite me > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 This is the same person who earlier had this to say about Avtar ji: ----- Forwarded message from Bhaskar ----- > Thu, 04 Sep 2008 > Bhaskar> I read your story about how youwere pushed out of Kashmir. Should > you have expected better ? Being aPundit, a Hindu and brahmin and > talking rot about your ancestors tilldate, is the worst adharmic > denigration of any soul. You deserve to bekicked out from there. It > is because you people who ahve not remainedfaithful to your own > religion and percepts that we see Kashmir today inthe hands ofthe > worst people. You could not save your religion, youcould not save > their reputation, you could not save your motherland,and now talking > all the ghoulest possible, for your Hindu ancestors andastrologers, > whom you find weak enough to target. Your ancestors arealready dead, > so those poor souls cannot come here to defendthemselves. This is > like selling ones own mother to get money to buy anight of pleasure > from another women.my links tell me that here is a Kashmiri > Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for commercial > purposes, but since no more business available now in Kashmir, he has > got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus and their ancinet > practises of yore have been given name of superstitions. It seems he > has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, therefore all the > time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the Hindus. > > Why should we go from here ? > > Why not remove these dogs who are doing this, from existence ??? > > Bhaskar-----------------------------Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~ Buddha http://nirmukta.com/tag/astrology/On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? Are you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us about yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. Your age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis have you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " degraded carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of us ? Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you Cleopatra ? What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us whoare You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant or a Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that the public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many women on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst those ? If you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if you are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. Bhaskar. , " dipika blr " <blr.aspirant wrote: > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the > civilzed nature of debate. > > regards > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, > then accept it and live up to it. " Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma > > wrote: > > > ** > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > ** > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > ** > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > ** > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > ** > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > ** > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > * * > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r which > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > ** > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > ** > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > ** > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa ..And > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc > > etc ) * > > > > ** > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > > vedas .* > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > ** > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > ** > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > Namaskar! > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > astronomy! > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > several forums including and HinduCalendar > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > Dhanyavad. > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may b > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > > told > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > > not > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > > in > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > learn > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > > not > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > said .Again > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > questions to > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > > points > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > > stress > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > > the > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > existent rashis! > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > astrology " > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > names > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > > in > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > > of > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > > lost > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > > is > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > time to > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > shud b > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > > what > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > name is > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > > gurus > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > india > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > > non > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > reverence > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree ..Even i > > > dont > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > > it > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > > frm > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > yevana are > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > some > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > > sun > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > > stars > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > > to > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > > nadi > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > depend > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > zodiac ??is > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > > fraud > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > > even > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > > that > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > than > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > > fate > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > direction > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > > esp > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > > in > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > (chandrayaan > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > reports > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > generaly > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > trained > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > dont > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > > hrs or > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > earlier > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > > and > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > world > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > astrologers > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > planets > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > Manduka > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > Rahu- > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > > or > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > indian > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > without a > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > > vedas > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > pumping > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > > of > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > > which > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > understanding > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > > etc r > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > mentioned in > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > > we > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > > some > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > books > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > > with > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > too ,even u > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > seeing > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > invite me > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Okay so what are you trying to prove here by forwarding this msg ? At least my anger is gone, and pity has taken place instead of anger. What about You ? This man whom I addressed at least has something technical to talk about with regards to astronomy. But who are You ? What is your real name ? Why are you hiding behind a fake id ? How have I ever hurt you ? Why did you write in a derogatory manner about me and Sunilji ? You talk about Buddha as if you are in contact with him all the time, whereas in fact by your outbursts and unenecessary commenting about others who are not connecetd to you, your slip is seen, that you are yourself a fake and trickster. You talk about anger. Anger is better. At least i dont have any evil intentions like you in my heart . What i had to say, I said. But people like you are dangerous. I dont even know you, and you come out of nowhere and comment on me. Your hatred for a stranger is worse than my anger. Your dirty comments about me and Sunilji are worst than what I wrote to Shri kaulji. At least i respect him for his astronomical knowledge which i dont understand. But what have you shown in you, that you must be respected ? Forget this nonsense and reveal your true identity to the members over here. Bhaskar. , " dipika blr " <blr.aspirant wrote: > > This is the same person who earlier had this to say about Avtar ji: > > ----- Forwarded message from Bhaskar ----- > > Thu, 04 Sep 2008 > > Bhaskar > > I read your story about how youwere pushed out of Kashmir. Should > > you have expected better ? Being aPundit, a Hindu and brahmin and > > talking rot about your ancestors tilldate, is the worst adharmic > > denigration of any soul. You deserve to bekicked out from there. It > > is because you people who ahve not remainedfaithful to your own > > religion and percepts that we see Kashmir today inthe hands ofthe > > worst people. You could not save your religion, youcould not save > > their reputation, you could not save your motherland,and now > talking > > all the ghoulest possible, for your Hindu ancestors andastrologers, > > whom you find weak enough to target. Your ancestors arealready > dead, > > so those poor souls cannot come here to defendthemselves. This is > > like selling ones own mother to get money to buy anight of pleasure > > from another women. > > my links tell me that here is a > Kashmiri > > Pandit who is a Muslim converted into a Hindu Pundit for commercial > > purposes, but since no more business available now in Kashmir, he > has > > got down to the rotten depths of slandering Hindus and their ancinet > > practises of yore have been given name of superstitions. It seems > he > > has got wealth from ancestors for eating 2 times food, therefore > all the > > time in the world to talk rot and garbage about the Hindus. > > > > Why should we go from here ? > > > > Why not remove these dogs who are doing this, from existence ??? > > > > Bhaskar > ------\ -- > Holding on to *anger* is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of > throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~ *Buddha* > > http://nirmukta.com/tag/astrology/ > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotishwrote: > > > > > Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, > > > > // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > > > > further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept > > at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // > > > > Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? Are > > you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us about > > yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What > > have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. Your > > age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements > > etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis have > > you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " degraded > > carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of us ? > > Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you Cleopatra ? > > What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been > > stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us whoare > > You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant or a > > Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? > > > > Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that the > > public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many women > > on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not > > obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst those ? If > > you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if you > > are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? > > > > We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > --- In <%40>\ , > > " dipika blr " > > blr.aspirant@ wrote: > > > > > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > > > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at > > spoiling the > > > civilzed nature of debate. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not > > believe > > > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not > > believe > > > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious > > books. Do > > > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and > > elders. > > > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for > > many > > > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that > > anything > > > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and > > all, > > > then accept it and live up to it. " > > Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was > > purely a > > > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything > > ,even so > > > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can > > do it > > > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > > think it > > > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > > possibility is > > > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts > > in 10s > > > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there > > to > > > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and > > nakshtras > > > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in > > sanskrit > > > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way > > in any > > > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas > > ,signs > > > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof > > that > > > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous > > sidhantha > > > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of > > ppl ,rishi > > > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r > > which > > > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data > > b4 > > > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with > > when 5 > > > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama > > also * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also > > date > > > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > > explain ur > > > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs > > or > > > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa > > .And > > > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to > > see Us > > > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks > > came etc > > > > etc ) * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to > > U in > > > > vedas .* > > > > > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha > > is > > > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40>\ , > > " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis > > and > > > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > > > astronomy! > > > > > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > > > several forums including and > > HinduCalendar > > > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated > > anywhere > > > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave > > alone > > > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > name > > > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > recent > > > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was > > not > > > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > > hoodwink > > > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge > > of > > > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it > > was > > > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > > knowledge > > > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading > > the > > > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing > > out > > > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In <%40>\ , > > " maheswara_varma " > > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > > > may b > > > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira > > also > > > > > told > > > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > > zodiac ) > > > > > not > > > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full > > hidden > > > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont > > blv > > > > > in > > > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > > > learn > > > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is > > real or > > > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it > > is > > > > > not > > > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > > > said .Again > > > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > > > questions to > > > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov > > ur > > > > > points > > > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u > > dont > > > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting > > for > > > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > > > > stress > > > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding > > Vedas-vis- > > > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras > > from > > > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > mlechha--- > > > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > > Rashis! > > > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal > > and > > > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas > > and > > > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that > > the > > > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > > > existent rashis! > > > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > > > astrology " > > > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > > > without > > > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > > > names > > > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some > > recent > > > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > > appreciated > > > > > in > > > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with > > help > > > > > of > > > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to > > find > > > > > lost > > > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > > > time to > > > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > > > shud b > > > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas > > or > > > > > what > > > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas ..Here u > > > > > name is > > > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > recent > > > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth > > ,what > > > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were > > all > > > > > gurus > > > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > > > india > > > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers > > and > > > > > non > > > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > > > reverence > > > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree > > .Even i > > > > > dont > > > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > > science > > > > > it > > > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that > > the > > > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > astronomically! > > > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer > > has > > > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem > > ,in > > > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or > > even > > > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for > > economic > > > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, > > which > > > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got > > astro > > > > > frm > > > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also > > yevana > > > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > > > yevana are > > > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > > > some > > > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months > > ( > > > > > sun > > > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > > > > stars > > > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > > > > to > > > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only > > in > > > > > nadi > > > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > > > depend > > > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > > > zodiac ??is > > > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call > > him > > > > > fraud > > > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks > > which > > > > > even > > > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > > deleted > > > > > that > > > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > > Jyotishi, > > > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > > > than > > > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma > > is > > > > > fate > > > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > > > direction > > > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every > > field > > > > > esp > > > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > > assessment! > > > > > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > > practical > > > > > in > > > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > > > (chandrayaan > > > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv > > tests > > > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as > > a > > > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > > eclipses > > > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that > > also > > > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > > > reports > > > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > > > generaly > > > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > > > trained > > > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula > > and > > > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 > > in > > > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > > > dont > > > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the > > 3 > > > > > hrs or > > > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > > astronomers > > > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent > > accuracy " in > > > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > > > earlier > > > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened > > in > > > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, > > if > > > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of > > Maya > > > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u > > go > > > > > and > > > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > > > world > > > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in > > the > > > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft > > you > > > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > > diffrnt > > > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > > > planets > > > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > > > Manduka > > > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by > > about 30 > > > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > > > Rahu- > > > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves > > are > > > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > > system > > > > > or > > > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > > another > > > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > > > indian > > > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > > > without a > > > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying > > in > > > > > vedas > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > > supposed to > > > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > > astrology > > > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that > > means > > > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > > themselves, > > > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > > accurate > > > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is > > the > > > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > > > pumping > > > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this .. > > > > > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real > > date > > > > > of > > > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat > > etc. > > > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > > Dipavali or > > > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > > calander > > > > > which > > > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or > > 7 > > > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > > > understanding > > > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science > > /rockets > > > > > etc r > > > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > > > mentioned in > > > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never > > find > > > > > we > > > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u > > hav > > > > > some > > > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to > > be > > > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither > > Vedic > > > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > > > books > > > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i > > dont > > > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is > > ur > > > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in > > vedic > > > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 > > times > > > > > with > > > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > > > too ,even u > > > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > > > seeing > > > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > > > invite me > > > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Dear Bhaskar, Namaskar, I welcome you in the forum. I have gone through from your massages addressed to the members. I find that you have some preset mind and without knowing the direction of discussion or basic aim of the forum, you have just started your filthy language, without any substance for discussion. You should know that this forum is meant for discussion about any science behind predictive astrology or any Vedic support for this, which is being propagated by the astrologers. For this we are discussing to find some truth. That's why I am inviting astrologers for sharing their knowledge. You may read various points in SOA……….. files (in file section) and msg 1. Because there is nothing in your msg about the point of discussion hence I will not offer any reply. This forum is meant for academic discussion and I will not allow it to turn in to the fight of street dogs, which is evident from the comments of the members. In view of this I will like to warn you that be careful in writing, limit your writings to astrological principles only and science if any behind formulating them, behave properly. You as a person must know how to address a lady member and how to write about difference. REMEMBER it is my first and last warning. Otherwise, next time I will terminate your membership. I am not moderating any msg. hence do not misuse this facility. I am watching the language of your msg. Try to learn, how to write a msg. in forums. Difference of opinion is one thing. I always welcome such difference. Because difference is the gateway of knowledge and truth. Hence I am continuously inviting astrologers, not for supporting me but to have proper interaction on various points related to predictive astrology. But filthy language is different and can never be allowed during serious interactions. Hope you will follow the normal behavior. Thanks, Yours truly, Sanat , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, > > // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept > at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // > > Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? Are > you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us about > yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What > have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. Your > age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements > etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis have > you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " degraded > carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of us ? > Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you Cleopatra ? > What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been > stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us whoare > You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant or a > Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? > > Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that the > public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many women > on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not > obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst those ? If > you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if you > are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? > > We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. > > Bhaskar. > > > > > , " dipika blr " > <blr.aspirant@> wrote: > > > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at > spoiling the > > civilzed nature of debate. > > > > regards > > > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not > believe > > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not > believe > > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious > books. Do > > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and > elders. > > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for > many > > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that > anything > > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and > all, > > then accept it and live up to it. " > Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma@ > > > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was > purely a > > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything > ,even so > > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can > do it > > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > think it > > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > possibility is > > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts > in 10s > > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there > to > > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and > nakshtras > > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in > sanskrit > > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way > in any > > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas > ,signs > > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof > that > > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > > > * * > > > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous > sidhantha > > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of > ppl ,rishi > > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r > which > > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data > b4 > > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with > when 5 > > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama > also * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also > date > > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > explain ur > > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs > or > > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa > .And > > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to > see Us > > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks > came etc > > > etc ) * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to > U in > > > vedas .* > > > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha > is > > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > > Namaskar! > > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis > and > > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > > astronomy! > > > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > > several forums including and > HinduCalendar > > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated > anywhere > > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave > alone > > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > name > > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > recent > > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was > not > > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > hoodwink > > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge > of > > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it > was > > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > knowledge > > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading > the > > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing > out > > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > > may b > > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira > also > > > > told > > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > zodiac ) > > > > not > > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full > hidden > > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont > blv > > > > in > > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > > learn > > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is > real or > > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it > is > > > > not > > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > > said .Again > > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > > questions to > > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov > ur > > > > points > > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u > dont > > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting > for > > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know -- again i > > > > stress > > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know > to > > > > the > > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding > Vedas-vis- > > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras > from > > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > mlechha--- > > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > Rashis! > > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal > and > > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas > and > > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that > the > > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > > existent rashis! > > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > > astrology " > > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > > without > > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > > names > > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some > recent > > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > appreciated > > > > in > > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with > help > > > > of > > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to > find > > > > lost > > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think > it > > > > is > > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > > time to > > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > > shud b > > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas > or > > > > what > > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > > name is > > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > recent > > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth > ,what > > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were > all > > > > gurus > > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > > india > > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers > and > > > > non > > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > > reverence > > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree > .Even i > > > > dont > > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > science > > > > it > > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that > the > > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > astronomically! > > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer > has > > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem > ,in > > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or > even > > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for > economic > > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > purpose > > > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, > which > > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got > astro > > > > frm > > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also > yevana > > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > > yevana are > > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > > some > > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months > ( > > > > sun > > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > > > stars > > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > > > to > > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only > in > > > > nadi > > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > > depend > > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > > zodiac ??is > > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call > him > > > > fraud > > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks > which > > > > even > > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > deleted > > > > that > > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > Jyotishi, > > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > > than > > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma > is > > > > fate > > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > > direction > > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every > field > > > > esp > > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > assessment! > > > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > practical > > > > in > > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > > (chandrayaan > > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv > tests > > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as > a > > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > eclipses > > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that > also > > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > > reports > > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv > ) > > > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > > generaly > > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > > trained > > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula > and > > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 > in > > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > > dont > > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the > 3 > > > > hrs or > > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > astronomers > > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent > accuracy " in > > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > > earlier > > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened > in > > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, > if > > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of > Maya > > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u > go > > > > and > > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > > world > > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in > the > > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft > you > > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > > astrologers > > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > diffrnt > > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > > planets > > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > > Manduka > > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by > about 30 > > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > > Rahu- > > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves > are > > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > system > > > > or > > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > another > > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > > indian > > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > > without a > > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying > in > > > > vedas > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > supposed to > > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > astrology > > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that > means > > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > themselves, > > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > accurate > > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > Ayanamsha > > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is > the > > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > Ayanamsha > > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > > pumping > > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real > date > > > > of > > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat > etc. > > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > Dipavali or > > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > calander > > > > which > > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or > 7 > > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > > understanding > > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science > /rockets > > > > etc r > > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > > mentioned in > > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never > find > > > > we > > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u > hav > > > > some > > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to > be > > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither > Vedic > > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > > books > > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i > dont > > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is > ur > > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in > vedic > > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 > times > > > > with > > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > > too ,even u > > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > > seeing > > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > > invite me > > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Resp Ms Dipika ji, Namaskar, I have received some personal mails too for filthy language being used by Mr. Maheshwar Varma (he is actually Vijay Raghavan, who used to write with lion_draco1983, raghavanvijaya49, vijayaraghavan99955 fake ID), who has entered in the forum with fake ID. I have since banned him. He has again entered with Maheswar.varma (another fake ID). AVOID HIM. I am very open to every view so long it is logical, but I find that some members are misusing my attitude. All other forums, involved in predictive astrology are actually allowing the members and msg after proper verification and create an atmosphere with the fake msg that predictive astrology is correct. Whereas I have opened to forum for every one and without any moderation of the msgs. Hence some members are misusing the facility. But still I am of the opinion that we must be open to all views like we open the windows of our house for fresh air and simultaneously have to bear with dust. Hence we have to clean our house on daily basis. Likewise we have to clear our forum and have to remove the members who are not following the normal etiquettes for addressing, writing others. Hence whenever any member came to know some filthy language he can immediately alert me and I will ban him. I hope you will understand my position and will continue to share your views. I will also like to caution the members that astrologers too have suck fake customers for befooling innocent public. So save your hard earned money and self confidence and beware from astrologers. Thanks Yours truly, Sanat , " dipika blr " <blr.aspirant wrote: > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the > civilzed nature of debate. > > regards > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, > then accept it and live up to it. " Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma <maheswara_varma > > wrote: > > > ** > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > ** > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > ** > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > ** > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > ** > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > ** > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > * * > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r which > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > ** > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > ** > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > ** > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc > > etc ) * > > > > ** > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > > vedas .* > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > ** > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > ** > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > Namaskar! > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > astronomy! > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > several forums including and HinduCalendar > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated anywhere > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > Dhanyavad. > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may b > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > > told > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > > not > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > > in > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > learn > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > > not > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > said .Again > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > questions to > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > > points > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know -- again i > > > stress > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > > the > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > existent rashis! > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > astrology " > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > names > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > > in > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > > of > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > > lost > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > > is > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > time to > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > shud b > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > > what > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > name is > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > > gurus > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > india > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > > non > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > reverence > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > > > dont > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > > it > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > > frm > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > yevana are > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > some > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > > sun > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > > stars > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > > to > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > > nadi > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > depend > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > zodiac ??is > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > > fraud > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > > even > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > > that > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > than > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > > fate > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > direction > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > > esp > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > > in > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > (chandrayaan > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > reports > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > generaly > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > trained > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > dont > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > > hrs or > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent accuracy " in > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > earlier > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > > and > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > world > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > astrologers > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > planets > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > Manduka > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > Rahu- > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > > or > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > indian > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > without a > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > > vedas > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > pumping > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > > of > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > > which > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > understanding > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > > etc r > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > mentioned in > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > > we > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > > some > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > books > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > > with > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > too ,even u > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > seeing > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > invite me > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Sanat, Try to act like a man and not like a gigolo for Ms. Dipika. You call her respected Dipika, while you address a respected person as using filthy langiage ??? Are you a man or what ??? Were you sleeping or blind when she wrote wrong about me and Mr.Sunil Nair , by saying reincarnation of .........................etc.etc. especially when I was not here to defend myself. Is this how you define justice ???? Dont try to impress old women. And dont try to push real men. I dont like being pushed. And dont give me this crap of removing me from the forum, and moderation and all this stuff. I have come here only, because somebody complained to me about your nonsense. I dont care for people who are having names of men but behave like half men and half women. First identify who you are, a man or a women, and on whose side you are, before picking on me . And I am already a moderator/Owner of 7 Forums Plus, so dont think that i have some attraction to stay here. Next time try impressing Dipika with your own ammunitions ( That is if you have any - which i dont think you possess), and dont try pushing men like me, who can just blow you off with one breath . Okay. And dont try to impress me with all the rot you have written in your mail This lecturing please give to street children who play with dogs. Bhaskar. , " sanat2221 " <sanatkumar_jain wrote: > > > Dear Bhaskar, > Namaskar, > I welcome you in the forum. > > I have gone through from your massages addressed to the members. I > find that you have some preset mind and without knowing the direction > of discussion or basic aim of the forum, you have just started your > filthy language, without any substance for discussion. You should > know that this forum is meant for discussion about any science behind > predictive astrology or any Vedic support for this, which is being > propagated by the astrologers. For this we are discussing to find > some truth. That's why I am inviting astrologers for sharing their > knowledge. You may read various points in SOA……….. files (in file > section) and msg 1. > > Because there is nothing in your msg about the point of discussion > hence I will not offer any reply. This forum is meant for academic > discussion and I will not allow it to turn in to the fight of street > dogs, which is evident from the comments of the members. > > In view of this I will like to warn you that be careful in writing, > limit your writings to astrological principles only and science if > any behind formulating them, behave properly. You as a person must > know how to address a lady member and how to write about difference. > REMEMBER it is my first and last warning. Otherwise, next time I will > terminate your membership. I am not moderating any msg. hence do not > misuse this facility. I am watching the language of your msg. Try to > learn, how to write a msg. in forums. Difference of opinion is one > thing. I always welcome such difference. Because difference is the > gateway of knowledge and truth. Hence I am continuously inviting > astrologers, not for supporting me but to have proper interaction on > various points related to predictive astrology. But filthy language > is different and can never be allowed during serious interactions. > Hope you will follow the normal behavior. > > Thanks, > > Yours truly, > > Sanat > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, > > > > // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > > further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co > adept > > at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // > > > > Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? > Are > > you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us > about > > yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What > > have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. > Your > > age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements > > etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis > have > > you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " > degraded > > carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of > us ? > > Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you > Cleopatra ? > > What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been > > stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us > whoare > > You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant > or a > > Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? > > > > Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that > the > > public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many > women > > on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not > > obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst > those ? If > > you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if > you > > are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? > > > > We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > , " dipika blr " > > <blr.aspirant@> wrote: > > > > > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > further > > > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at > > spoiling the > > > civilzed nature of debate. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do > not > > believe > > > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do > not > > believe > > > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious > > books. Do > > > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers > and > > elders. > > > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down > for > > many > > > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find > that > > anything > > > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of > one and > > all, > > > then accept it and live up to it. " > > Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was > > purely a > > > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove > anything > > ,even so > > > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u > also can > > do it > > > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > > think it > > > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > > possibility is > > > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar > charts > > in 10s > > > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b > there > > to > > > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of > Graha in > > > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars > and > > nakshtras > > > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name > in > > sanskrit > > > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic > way > > in any > > > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its > Yogas > > ,signs > > > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real > proof > > that > > > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous > > sidhantha > > > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name > of > > ppl ,rishi > > > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also > they r > > which > > > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got > data > > b4 > > > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very > later .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct > data ??* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born > with > > when 5 > > > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of > rama > > also * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to > u ,also > > date > > > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > > explain ur > > > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or > signs > > or > > > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice > versa > > .And > > > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us > to > > see Us > > > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when > greeks > > came etc > > > > etc ) * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy > according to > > U in > > > > vedas .* > > > > > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya > sidhantha > > is > > > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets > again > > > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the > burden of > > > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras > which > > > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha > Bhuktis > > and > > > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of > JPL/NASA > > > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them > from > > > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > > > astronomy! > > > > > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were > exlated ,so > > > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's > horoscope in > > > > > several forums including and > > HinduCalendar > > > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan > Ram was > > > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are > talking > > > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated > > anywhere > > > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, > leave > > alone > > > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which > are > > > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a > concoction by > > > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes > in > > > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You > have to > > > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or > mlechas .Here u > > name > > > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > recent > > > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, > was > > not > > > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > > hoodwink > > > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game > plan of > > > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just > devoted > > > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to > do but > > > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better > knowledge > > of > > > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data > from > > > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by > now > > > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the > most > > > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan > they > > > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar > of > > > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And > it > > was > > > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be > your > > > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days > who > > > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You > can > > > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > > knowledge > > > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of > spreading > > the > > > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they > call > > > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the > Vedas! And > > > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the > trinkets > > > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, > in the > > > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am > pointing > > out > > > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a > deep > > > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real > name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets > again > > > > > may b > > > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which > varahamihira > > also > > > > > told > > > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > > zodiac ) > > > > > not > > > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is > just > > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose > full > > hidden > > > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i > dont > > blv > > > > > in > > > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u > shud > > > > > learn > > > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is > > real or > > > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur > approach > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct > when > > > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse > as it > > is > > > > > not > > > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > > > said .Again > > > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > > > questions to > > > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to > proov > > ur > > > > > points > > > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise > why u > > dont > > > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was > waiting > > for > > > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know -- > again i > > > > > stress > > > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont > know > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding > > Vedas-vis- > > > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the > mantras > > from > > > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > mlechha--- > > > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > > Rashis! > > > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is > Vedic, > > > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis > calculated > > > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like > Mangal > > and > > > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four > Vedas > > and > > > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > in the > > > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible > that > > the > > > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of > non- > > > > > > existent rashis! > > > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > > > astrology " > > > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard > predictiv > > > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were > exlated ,so > > > > > without > > > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever > may b > > > > > names > > > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some > > recent > > > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > > appreciated > > > > > in > > > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period > with > > help > > > > > of > > > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to > > find > > > > > lost > > > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont > think > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority > has no > > > > > time to > > > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u > blv we > > > > > shud b > > > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain > vedas ,purnas > > or > > > > > what > > > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or > mlechas .Here u > > > > > name is > > > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > recent > > > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the > truth > > ,what > > > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires > were > > all > > > > > gurus > > > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in > india and > > > > > india > > > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even > blvers > > and > > > > > non > > > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp > when > > > > > reverence > > > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree > > .Even i > > > > > dont > > > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some > material > > > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > > science > > > > > it > > > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware > that > > the > > > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > astronomically! > > > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no > astronomer > > has > > > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no > problem > > ,in > > > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on > mental > > > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or > > even > > > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for > > economic > > > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, > > which > > > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on > any " equal > > > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we > got > > astro > > > > > frm > > > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also > > yevana > > > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which > says > > > > > yevana are > > > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons > of > > > > > some > > > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar > months > > ( > > > > > sun > > > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is > moving ). > > > > > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it > is not > > > > > stars > > > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various > amsa > > > > > to > > > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division > only > > in > > > > > nadi > > > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > > > depend > > > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > > > zodiac ??is > > > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to > call > > him > > > > > fraud > > > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks > > which > > > > > even > > > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > > deleted > > > > > that > > > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > > Jyotishi, > > > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed > more > > > > > than > > > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur > karma > > is > > > > > fate > > > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in > right > > > > > direction > > > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in > every > > field > > > > > esp > > > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > > assessment! > > > > > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > > practical > > > > > in > > > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > > > (chandrayaan > > > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various > liv > > tests > > > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be > bracketed as > > a > > > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > > eclipses > > > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those > eclipse > > > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! > Similarly, > > > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and > that > > also > > > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any > factual > > > > > reports > > > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple > i blv > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers > are > > > > > generaly > > > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless > they > > > > > trained > > > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in > gurukula > > and > > > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs > b4 > > in > > > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian > astronomers or > > > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few > minits ) i > > > > > dont > > > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But > the > > 3 > > > > > hrs or > > > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > > astronomers > > > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent > > accuracy " in > > > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse > that is > > > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take > place > > > > > earlier > > > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what > happened > > in > > > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several > hours, > > if > > > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta > of > > Maya > > > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why > dont u > > go > > > > > and > > > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in > frnt of > > > > > world > > > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected > in > > the > > > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other > spacecraft > > you > > > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those > experiments! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > > diffrnt > > > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking > predictive > > > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani > etc. > > > > > planets > > > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through > some > > > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra > or > > > > > Manduka > > > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by > > about 30 > > > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon > as my > > > > > Rahu- > > > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis > themsleves > > are > > > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > > system > > > > > or > > > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system > like > > > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > > another > > > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing > r all > > > > > indian > > > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( > even > > > > > without a > > > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u > saying > > in > > > > > vedas > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is > being > > > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > > supposed to > > > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > > astrology > > > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that > > means > > > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > > themselves, > > > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > > accurate > > > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar > Ayanamsha is > > the > > > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp > than > > > > > pumping > > > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on > this . > > > > > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive > techniques and > > > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the > real > > date > > > > > of > > > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta > Sampat > > etc. > > > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > > Dipavali or > > > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct > days! > > > > > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > > calander > > > > > which > > > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in > 6 or > > 7 > > > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > > > understanding > > > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science > > /rockets > > > > > etc r > > > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > > > mentioned in > > > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never > > find > > > > > we > > > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do > u > > hav > > > > > some > > > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate > your > > > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I > going to > > be > > > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is > neither > > Vedic > > > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to > read > > > > > books > > > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so > then i > > dont > > > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it > is > > ur > > > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks > in > > vedic > > > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 > > times > > > > > with > > > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > > > too ,even u > > > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than > reality in > > > > > seeing > > > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also > dont > > > > > invite me > > > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 And I am leaving this rotten place now. I cannot stay amongst gigolos who search for women to impress, because they dont have anyone else to impress. You have spoiled my mood. And you are free to write about me after I leave, just as you have been free to allow Dipka to write rotten about me , in my absemce. This will conform what i talked and wrote about your manliness - ie. absemce of it. And I challenge you and your tribe, to put a challenge before me, about astrology, and I will prove that yes I can predict with whatever charts you produce before me. If you have little bit manliness left in you, then take my challenge. Dont try to be a king of some small jhopadpatti which is this. Bhaskar. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Sanat, > > Try to act like a man and not like a gigolo for Ms. Dipika. > > You call her respected Dipika, while you address a respected person as > using filthy langiage ??? Are you a man or what ??? > > Were you sleeping or blind when she wrote wrong about me and Mr.Sunil > Nair , by saying reincarnation of .........................etc.etc. > especially when I was not here to defend myself. Is this how you define > justice ???? > > Dont try to impress old women. > > And dont try to push real men. I dont like being pushed. > > And dont give me this crap of removing me from the forum, and moderation > and all this stuff. I have come here only, because somebody complained > to me about your nonsense. > > I dont care for people who are having names of men but behave like half > men and half women. > > First identify who you are, a man or a women, and on whose side you are, > before picking on me . > > And I am already a moderator/Owner of 7 Forums Plus, so dont think > that i have some attraction to stay here. > > Next time try impressing Dipika with your own ammunitions ( That is if > you have any - which i dont think you possess), and dont try pushing men > like me, who can just blow you off with one breath . Okay. > > And dont try to impress me with all the rot you have written in your > mail This lecturing please give to street children who play with dogs. > > Bhaskar. , " sanat2221 " > sanatkumar_jain@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar, > > Namaskar, > > I welcome you in the forum. > > > > I have gone through from your massages addressed to the members. I > > find that you have some preset mind and without knowing the direction > > of discussion or basic aim of the forum, you have just started your > > filthy language, without any substance for discussion. You should > > know that this forum is meant for discussion about any science behind > > predictive astrology or any Vedic support for this, which is being > > propagated by the astrologers. For this we are discussing to find > > some truth. That's why I am inviting astrologers for sharing their > > knowledge. You may read various points in SOA……….. files (in > file > > section) and msg 1. > > > > Because there is nothing in your msg about the point of discussion > > hence I will not offer any reply. This forum is meant for academic > > discussion and I will not allow it to turn in to the fight of street > > dogs, which is evident from the comments of the members. > > > > In view of this I will like to warn you that be careful in writing, > > limit your writings to astrological principles only and science if > > any behind formulating them, behave properly. You as a person must > > know how to address a lady member and how to write about difference. > > REMEMBER it is my first and last warning. Otherwise, next time I will > > terminate your membership. I am not moderating any msg. hence do not > > misuse this facility. I am watching the language of your msg. Try to > > learn, how to write a msg. in forums. Difference of opinion is one > > thing. I always welcome such difference. Because difference is the > > gateway of knowledge and truth. Hence I am continuously inviting > > astrologers, not for supporting me but to have proper interaction on > > various points related to predictive astrology. But filthy language > > is different and can never be allowed during serious interactions. > > Hope you will follow the normal behavior. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yours truly, > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, > > > > > > // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > > > further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co > > adept > > > at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // > > > > > > Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? > > Are > > > you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us > > about > > > yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What > > > have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. > > Your > > > age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements > > > etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis > > have > > > you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " > > degraded > > > carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of > > us ? > > > Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you > > Cleopatra ? > > > What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been > > > stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us > > whoare > > > You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant > > or a > > > Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? > > > > > > Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that > > the > > > public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many > > women > > > on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not > > > obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst > > those ? If > > > you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if > > you > > > are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? > > > > > > We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " dipika blr " > > > <blr.aspirant@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > > further > > > > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at > > > spoiling the > > > > civilzed nature of debate. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do > > not > > > believe > > > > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do > > not > > > believe > > > > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious > > > books. Do > > > > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers > > and > > > elders. > > > > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down > > for > > > many > > > > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find > > that > > > anything > > > > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of > > one and > > > all, > > > > then accept it and live up to it. " > > > Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > > > > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > > > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > > > > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was > > > purely a > > > > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove > > anything > > > ,even so > > > > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u > > also can > > > do it > > > > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > > > think it > > > > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > > > possibility is > > > > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar > > charts > > > in 10s > > > > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > > > > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b > > there > > > to > > > > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of > > Graha in > > > > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars > > and > > > nakshtras > > > > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name > > in > > > sanskrit > > > > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > > > > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic > > way > > > in any > > > > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its > > Yogas > > > ,signs > > > > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real > > proof > > > that > > > > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous > > > sidhantha > > > > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name > > of > > > ppl ,rishi > > > > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also > > they r > > > which > > > > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got > > data > > > b4 > > > > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very > > later .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct > > data ??* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born > > with > > > when 5 > > > > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of > > rama > > > also * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to > > u ,also > > > date > > > > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > > > explain ur > > > > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > > > > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or > > signs > > > or > > > > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice > > versa > > > .And > > > > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us > > to > > > see Us > > > > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when > > greeks > > > came etc > > > > > etc ) * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy > > according to > > > U in > > > > > vedas .* > > > > > > > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya > > sidhantha > > > is > > > > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets > > again > > > > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the > > burden of > > > > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras > > which > > > > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha > > Bhuktis > > > and > > > > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of > > JPL/NASA > > > > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them > > from > > > > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > > > > astronomy! > > > > > > > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were > > exlated ,so > > > > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's > > horoscope in > > > > > > several forums including and > > > HinduCalendar > > > > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan > > Ram was > > > > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are > > talking > > > > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated > > > anywhere > > > > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, > > leave > > > alone > > > > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which > > are > > > > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a > > concoction by > > > > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes > > in > > > > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You > > have to > > > > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or > > mlechas .Here u > > > name > > > > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > > recent > > > > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, > > was > > > not > > > > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > > > hoodwink > > > > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game > > plan of > > > > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just > > devoted > > > > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to > > do but > > > > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better > > knowledge > > > of > > > > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data > > from > > > > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by > > now > > > > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the > > most > > > > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan > > they > > > > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar > > of > > > > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And > > it > > > was > > > > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be > > your > > > > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days > > who > > > > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You > > can > > > > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > > > knowledge > > > > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of > > spreading > > > the > > > > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they > > call > > > > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the > > Vedas! And > > > > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the > > trinkets > > > > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, > > in the > > > > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am > > pointing > > > out > > > > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a > > deep > > > > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real > > name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets > > again > > > > > > may b > > > > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which > > varahamihira > > > also > > > > > > told > > > > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > > > zodiac ) > > > > > > not > > > > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is > > just > > > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose > > full > > > hidden > > > > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i > > dont > > > blv > > > > > > in > > > > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u > > shud > > > > > > learn > > > > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is > > > real or > > > > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur > > approach > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct > > when > > > > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse > > as it > > > is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > > > > said .Again > > > > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > > > > questions to > > > > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to > > proov > > > ur > > > > > > points > > > > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise > > why u > > > dont > > > > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was > > waiting > > > for > > > > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know -- > > again i > > > > > > stress > > > > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont > > know > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding > > > Vedas-vis- > > > > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the > > mantras > > > from > > > > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > > mlechha--- > > > > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > > > Rashis! > > > > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is > > Vedic, > > > > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis > > calculated > > > > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like > > Mangal > > > and > > > > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four > > Vedas > > > and > > > > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > in the > > > > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible > > that > > > the > > > > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of > > non- > > > > > > > existent rashis! > > > > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > > > > astrology " > > > > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard > > predictiv > > > > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were > > exlated ,so > > > > > > without > > > > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever > > may b > > > > > > names > > > > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some > > > recent > > > > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > > > appreciated > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period > > with > > > help > > > > > > of > > > > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to > > > find > > > > > > lost > > > > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont > > think > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority > > has no > > > > > > time to > > > > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u > > blv we > > > > > > shud b > > > > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain > > vedas ,purnas > > > or > > > > > > what > > > > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or > > mlechas .Here u > > > > > > name is > > > > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > > recent > > > > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the > > truth > > > ,what > > > > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires > > were > > > all > > > > > > gurus > > > > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in > > india and > > > > > > india > > > > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even > > blvers > > > and > > > > > > non > > > > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp > > when > > > > > > reverence > > > > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree > > > .Even i > > > > > > dont > > > > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some > > material > > > > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > > > science > > > > > > it > > > > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware > > that > > > the > > > > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > > astronomically! > > > > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no > > astronomer > > > has > > > > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no > > problem > > > ,in > > > > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on > > mental > > > > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or > > > even > > > > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for > > > economic > > > > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, > > > which > > > > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on > > any " equal > > > > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we > > got > > > astro > > > > > > frm > > > > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also > > > yevana > > > > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which > > says > > > > > > yevana are > > > > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons > > of > > > > > > some > > > > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar > > months > > > ( > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is > > moving ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it > > is not > > > > > > stars > > > > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various > > amsa > > > > > > to > > > > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division > > only > > > in > > > > > > nadi > > > > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > > > > depend > > > > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > > > > zodiac ??is > > > > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to > > call > > > him > > > > > > fraud > > > > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks > > > which > > > > > > even > > > > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > > > deleted > > > > > > that > > > > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > > > Jyotishi, > > > > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed > > more > > > > > > than > > > > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur > > karma > > > is > > > > > > fate > > > > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in > > right > > > > > > direction > > > > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in > > every > > > field > > > > > > esp > > > > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > > > assessment! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > > > practical > > > > > > in > > > > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > > > > (chandrayaan > > > > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various > > liv > > > tests > > > > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be > > bracketed as > > > a > > > > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > > > eclipses > > > > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those > > eclipse > > > > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! > > Similarly, > > > > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and > > that > > > also > > > > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any > > factual > > > > > > reports > > > > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple > > i blv > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers > > are > > > > > > generaly > > > > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless > > they > > > > > > trained > > > > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in > > gurukula > > > and > > > > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs > > b4 > > > in > > > > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian > > astronomers or > > > > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few > > minits ) i > > > > > > dont > > > > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back ..But > > the > > > 3 > > > > > > hrs or > > > > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > > > astronomers > > > > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent > > > accuracy " in > > > > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse > > that is > > > > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take > > place > > > > > > earlier > > > > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what > > happened > > > in > > > > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several > > hours, > > > if > > > > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta > > of > > > Maya > > > > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why > > dont u > > > go > > > > > > and > > > > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in > > frnt of > > > > > > world > > > > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected > > in > > > the > > > > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other > > spacecraft > > > you > > > > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those > > experiments! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > > > diffrnt > > > > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking > > predictive > > > > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani > > etc. > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through > > some > > > > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra > > or > > > > > > Manduka > > > > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by > > > about 30 > > > > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon > > as my > > > > > > Rahu- > > > > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis > > themsleves > > > are > > > > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > > > system > > > > > > or > > > > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system > > like > > > > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > > > another > > > > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing > > r all > > > > > > indian > > > > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( > > even > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u > > saying > > > in > > > > > > vedas > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is > > being > > > > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > > > supposed to > > > > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > > > astrology > > > > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that > > > means > > > > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > > > themselves, > > > > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > > > accurate > > > > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar > > Ayanamsha is > > > the > > > > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp > > than > > > > > > pumping > > > > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on > > this . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive > > techniques and > > > > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the > > real > > > date > > > > > > of > > > > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta > > Sampat > > > etc. > > > > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > > > Dipavali or > > > > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct > > days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > > > calander > > > > > > which > > > > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in > > 6 or > > > 7 > > > > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science > > > /rockets > > > > > > etc r > > > > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > > > > mentioned in > > > > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never > > > find > > > > > > we > > > > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do > > u > > > hav > > > > > > some > > > > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate > > your > > > > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I > > going to > > > be > > > > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is > > neither > > > Vedic > > > > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to > > read > > > > > > books > > > > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so > > then i > > > dont > > > > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it > > is > > > ur > > > > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks > > in > > > vedic > > > > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 > > > times > > > > > > with > > > > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > > > > too ,even u > > > > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than > > reality in > > > > > > seeing > > > > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also > > dont > > > > > > invite me > > > > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 GOD HELP ALL OF US.ESPECIALLY THE LANGUAGE IS BEEN USED. MODERATOR SHOULD NOT ALL ALLOW SUCH MESSAGE.,IT IS DEGRADING THE SOCIETY WE LIVE IN.Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? Are you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us about yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. Your age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis have you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " degraded carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of us ? Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you Cleopatra ? What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us whoare You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant or a Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that the public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many women on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst those ? If you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if you are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. Bhaskar. , "dipika blr" <blr.aspirant wrote: > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the > civilzed nature of debate. > > regards > > "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, > then accept it and live up to it." Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma > > wrote: > > > ** > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > ** > > > > *Thanks for ur mail ..* > > > > ** > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails ..* > > > > ** > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > ** > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > ** > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > * * > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r which > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > ** > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > ** > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > ** > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc > > etc ) * > > > > ** > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > > vedas .* > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > ** > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > ** > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > Namaskar! > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > astronomy! > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > several forums including and HinduCalendar > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated anywhere > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to hoodwink > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic- > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > Dhanyavad. > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "maheswara_varma" > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may b > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > > told > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > > not > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > > in > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > learn > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > > not > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > said .Again > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > questions to > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > > points > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > > stress > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > > the > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > > > > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > existent rashis! > > > > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic > > > astrology" > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > names > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > > in > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > > of > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > > lost > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > > is > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > time to > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > shud b > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > > what > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > name is > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > > gurus > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > india > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > > non > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > reverence > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > > > dont > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > > it > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that the > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal > > > > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > > frm > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > yevana are > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > some > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > > sun > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not > > > stars > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa > > > to > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > > nadi > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > depend > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > zodiac ??is > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > > fraud > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > > even > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > > that > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > than > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > > fate > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > direction > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > > esp > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > > in > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > (chandrayaan > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > reports > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > generaly > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > trained > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > dont > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > > hrs or > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > earlier > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > > and > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > world > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > astrologers > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > planets > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > Manduka > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > Rahu- > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > > or > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > indian > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > without a > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > > vedas > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > pumping > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > > of > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > > which > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > understanding > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > > etc r > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > mentioned in > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > > we > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > > some > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > books > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > > with > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > too ,even u > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > seeing > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > invite me > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > binode kripalani numerologist 9831664581(Kolkata) binodeuk binode_kripalani Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! 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Guest guest Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Dear All,The condition of the forum is degrading everyday and i dont think its serving its purpose anymore.. people dont have any respect to others... vasdev kripalani udharam <binnumero Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:38:25 PMRe: Re: Message to all GOD HELP ALL OF US.ESPECIALLY THE LANGUAGE IS BEEN USED. MODERATOR SHOULD NOT ALL ALLOW SUCH MESSAGE.,IT IS DEGRADING THE SOCIETY WE LIVE IN.Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in> wrote: Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not ? Are you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us about yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. What have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in Life. Your age, place of location, academic achieements, religious achievements etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis have you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " degraded carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of us ? Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you Cleopatra ? What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us whoare You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant or a Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that the public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many women on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst those ? If you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if you are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. Bhaskar. , "dipika blr" <blr.aspirant@ ...> wrote: > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at spoiling the > civilzed nature of debate. > > regards > > "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, > then accept it and live up to it." Buddha<http://thinkexist. com/quotes/ buddha/> > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma maheswara_varma@ ... > > wrote: > > > ** > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > ** > > > > *Thanks for ur mail ..* > > > > ** > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails ..* > > > > ** > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > ** > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > ** > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > * * > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also they r which > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .* > > > > ** > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??* > > > > ** > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > ** > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc > > etc ) * > > > > ** > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > > vedas .* > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > ** > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > ** > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > ** > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > Namaskar! > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis and > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > astronomy! > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > several forums including ancient_indian_ astrology and HinduCalendar > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated anywhere > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave alone > > > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u name > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was not > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrolog er who wanted to hoodwink > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge of > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it was > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false knowledge > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading the > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic- > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing out > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > Dhanyavad. > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "maheswara_varma" > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > may b > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira also > > > told > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in zodiac ) > > > not > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full hidden > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont blv > > > in > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > learn > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is real or > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as it is > > > not > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > said .Again > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > questions to > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov ur > > > points > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u dont > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was waiting for > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > > stress > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know to > > > the > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-vis- > > > > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras from > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha--- > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological Rashis! > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like Mangal and > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas and > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that the > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > existent rashis! > > > > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic > > > astrology" > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > without > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > names > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some recent > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b appreciated > > > in > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with help > > > of > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to find > > > lost > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think it > > > is > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > time to > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > shud b > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas or > > > what > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > name is > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with recent > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the truth ,what > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were all > > > gurus > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > india > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers and > > > non > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > reverence > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also agree .Even i > > > dont > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a science > > > it > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately? ) unaware that the > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > divisions/compatmen ts like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis astronomically! > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer has > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no problem ,in > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or even > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for economic > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular purpose > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, which > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal > > > > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got astro > > > frm > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also yevana > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > yevana are > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > some > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months ( > > > sun > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not > > > stars > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa > > > to > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only in > > > nadi > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > depend > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > zodiac ??is > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call him > > > fraud > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks which > > > even > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav deleted > > > that > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no Jyotishi, > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > than > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur karma is > > > fate > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > direction > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every field > > > esp > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct assessment! > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is practical > > > in > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > (chandrayaan > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv tests > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as a > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar eclipses > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that also > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > reports > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i blv ) > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > generaly > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > trained > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula and > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 in > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > dont > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the 3 > > > hrs or > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock astronomers > > > > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent accuracy" in > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > earlier > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened in > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several hours, if > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of Maya > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u go > > > and > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > world > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in the > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft you > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > astrologers > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is diffrnt > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > planets > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > Manduka > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by about 30 > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > Rahu- > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves are > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika system > > > or > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one another > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > indian > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > without a > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying in > > > vedas > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are supposed to > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic astrology > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that means > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers themselves, > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most accurate > > > > for making predictions- --Some are screaming about Lahiri Ayanamsha > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is the > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari Ayanamsha > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > pumping > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real date > > > of > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat etc. > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether Dipavali or > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur calander > > > which > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or 7 > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > understanding > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science /rockets > > > etc r > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > mentioned in > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never find > > > we > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u hav > > > some > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going to be > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither Vedic > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > books > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i dont > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is ur > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in vedic > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 times > > > with > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > too ,even u > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > seeing > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > invite me > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > binode kripalani numerologist 9831664581(Kolkata) binodeuk (AT) hotmail (DOT) com binode_kripalani@ Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! 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Guest guest Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Resp. Bhaskar Ji, Namaskar, After my last msg to you I find some more msg from your side. It is rather difficult for me to answer your various mails in a very short time. As I am also busy in my 3rd book, after well acceptance of my both books. (if you have courage to read then why don't you have a study of it like many astrologers, who are not even talking about it despite going through, for fear of loosing their business). It will not be out of place to mention that after a personal meeting with Sh Gupta Ji, proprietor of " Motilal Banarasi Das " publication, Delhi, (who is the leading publisher of astrological books,) for about 3 hours on my book, he admitted that content of the book is revolutionary and if he publish it then all his publication will be scrapped. This was the first admission about the research contained in my book…….. OK take your own decision. I can only help if book is not available at your nearby bookseller. In one msg you said >>>>>>>I was under the impression that youare just like those other members on the forum we see, who are busy trying to earn name and fame at the cost of attacking others.<<<<<<< and felt sorry. Yet in another msg you wrote >>>>>>> that you people come down to your knees and touch the feet of astrologers like me, whatevr may be your age, but for that you have to come to my forum, and not in your place, where you are the Master of approving which messages you lilke to approve as per your conveninece, and which ones you like to reject, and which members you like to allow writing here, and which ones to be removed from here.<<<<<<< Whereas I have clearly mentioned that we in the forum are exchanging our views on predictive astrology and I am moderator (means I can moderate myself if you have logic and inform you to improve your knowledge and self confidence with Karm theory if you have logic). But when you are not able to answer my basic question then how you can answer in your forum except filthy language (sample we have seen). You have disclosed your tactics as to how you permit any member and msg in your forum (after screening), but how you can say that I am screening msg and members of my choice. Remember this forum is meant for exchanging our views and improving our logical and scientific aptitude and not for promoting our business or for creating a gang of puppets who can not even think of otherwise forget to write. But I will join your forum with my list of questions and I will improve my knowledge if you have some one. In another msg you wrote >>>>>> I am leaving this rotten place now……………yes I can predict with whatever charts you produce before me.<<<<<<< But you have never intimated a single principle which can be tested nor you have answered on various points raised in my msg 1, SOA……….. files and direct question to you, except throwing some paras here and there without any substance for proper discussion. As you are leaving the forum hence there is no question of reminding you on pending questions. With Happy Diwali, Bye Bye Yours truly, Sanat , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > And I am leaving this rotten place now. > > I cannot stay amongst gigolos who search for women to impress, because > they dont have anyone else to impress. > > You have spoiled my mood. And you are free to write about me after I > leave, just as you have been free to allow Dipka to write rotten about > me , in my absemce. This will conform what i talked and wrote about > your manliness - ie. absemce of it. > > And I challenge you and your tribe, to put a challenge before me, about > astrology, and I will prove that yes I can predict with whatever charts > you produce before me. > > If you have little bit manliness left in you, then take my challenge. > Dont try to be a king of some small jhopadpatti which is this. > > Bhaskar. > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote: > > > > > > Sanat, > > > > Try to act like a man and not like a gigolo for Ms. Dipika. > > > > You call her respected Dipika, while you address a respected person as > > using filthy langiage ??? Are you a man or what ??? > > > > Were you sleeping or blind when she wrote wrong about me and Mr.Sunil > > Nair , by saying reincarnation of .........................etc.etc. > > especially when I was not here to defend myself. Is this how you > define > > justice ???? > > > > Dont try to impress old women. > > > > And dont try to push real men. I dont like being pushed. > > > > And dont give me this crap of removing me from the forum, and > moderation > > and all this stuff. I have come here only, because somebody complained > > to me about your nonsense. > > > > I dont care for people who are having names of men but behave like > half > > men and half women. > > > > First identify who you are, a man or a women, and on whose side you > are, > > before picking on me . > > > > And I am already a moderator/Owner of 7 Forums Plus, so dont think > > that i have some attraction to stay here. > > > > Next time try impressing Dipika with your own ammunitions ( That is if > > you have any - which i dont think you possess), and dont try pushing > men > > like me, who can just blow you off with one breath . Okay. > > > > And dont try to impress me with all the rot you have written in your > > mail This lecturing please give to street children who play with dogs. > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sanat2221 " > > sanatkumar_jain@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar, > > > Namaskar, > > > I welcome you in the forum. > > > > > > I have gone through from your massages addressed to the members. I > > > find that you have some preset mind and without knowing the > direction > > > of discussion or basic aim of the forum, you have just started your > > > filthy language, without any substance for discussion. You should > > > know that this forum is meant for discussion about any science > behind > > > predictive astrology or any Vedic support for this, which is being > > > propagated by the astrologers. For this we are discussing to find > > > some truth. That's why I am inviting astrologers for sharing their > > > knowledge. You may read various points in SOA……….. files (in > > file > > > section) and msg 1. > > > > > > Because there is nothing in your msg about the point of discussion > > > hence I will not offer any reply. This forum is meant for academic > > > discussion and I will not allow it to turn in to the fight of street > > > dogs, which is evident from the comments of the members. > > > > > > In view of this I will like to warn you that be careful in writing, > > > limit your writings to astrological principles only and science if > > > any behind formulating them, behave properly. You as a person must > > > know how to address a lady member and how to write about difference. > > > REMEMBER it is my first and last warning. Otherwise, next time I > will > > > terminate your membership. I am not moderating any msg. hence do not > > > misuse this facility. I am watching the language of your msg. Try to > > > learn, how to write a msg. in forums. Difference of opinion is one > > > thing. I always welcome such difference. Because difference is the > > > gateway of knowledge and truth. Hence I am continuously inviting > > > astrologers, not for supporting me but to have proper interaction on > > > various points related to predictive astrology. But filthy language > > > is different and can never be allowed during serious interactions. > > > Hope you will follow the normal behavior. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Yours truly, > > > > > > Sanat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Madam, Sir Dipika, > > > > > > > > // > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be > a > > > > further > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co > > > adept > > > > at spoiling the civilzed nature of debate. // > > > > > > > > Who are you to judge whether some body is a re-incarnation or not > ? > > > Are > > > > you yourself fit to be in the seat of the judge ? Please tell us > > > about > > > > yourself, your achievements in any field of scinece or debates. > What > > > > have you done for the society , how have you helped anyone in > Life. > > > Your > > > > age, place of location, academic achieements, religious > achievements > > > > etc. What are your credentials to commet on others ? On what basis > > > have > > > > you decided and judged that Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and co. are " > > > degraded > > > > carnations " ? Are you awomen who has been scorned by any one of > > > us ? > > > > Are you Queen Elizabeth, are you Maharaani Victoria, are you > > > Cleopatra ? > > > > What and who are you ? Or are you one of those creeps who has been > > > > stopped given contonous free predictions from us ? Pray tell us > > > whoare > > > > You ? Are you a Magistrate to judge anybody ? Are you a Sadhu sant > > > or a > > > > Dev kanya ? Are you the next prime minister after Indira Gandhi ? > > > > > > > > Please let us know more about you, and your achievements, so that > > > the > > > > public will believe in your words. Otherwise we pass through many > > > women > > > > on the road, who prospect customers for Rs. 50- and who when not > > > > obliged, start abusing these passers by ? Are you one amongst > > > those ? If > > > > you are one amongst those then we dont care for thei words. But if > > > you > > > > are better, then please let us know your qualifications ??? > > > > > > > > We Pray with folded hands to reveal your great identity. > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " dipika blr " > > > > <blr.aspirant@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please somebody put a leash on this person who appears to be a > > > further > > > > > de-graded re-incarnation of Sunil Nair, Bhaskar and Co adept at > > > > spoiling the > > > > > civilzed nature of debate. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do > > > not > > > > believe > > > > > in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do > > > not > > > > believe > > > > > in anything simply because it is found written in your religious > > > > books. Do > > > > > not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers > > > and > > > > elders. > > > > > Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down > > > for > > > > many > > > > > generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find > > > that > > > > anything > > > > > agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of > > > one and > > > > all, > > > > > then accept it and live up to it. " > > > > Buddha<http://thinkexist.com/quotes/buddha/> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM, maheswara_varma > maheswara_varma@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *dear kaul ji * > > > > > > > > > > > > *Namaskar * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *Thanks for ur mail .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > * i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my > own > > > > > > observations are coming back as questions .* > > > > > > > > > > > > *for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth -- it was > > > > purely a > > > > > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove > > > anything > > > > ,even so > > > > > > called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u > > > also can > > > > do it > > > > > > ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . > I > > > > think it > > > > > > is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > > > > possibility is > > > > > > that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar > > > charts > > > > in 10s > > > > > > of 1000s of yrs .* > > > > > > > > > > > > * Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b > > > there > > > > to > > > > > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *so here my revised questions for ur answers .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *so answer this pls * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of > > > Graha in > > > > > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars > > > and > > > > nakshtras > > > > > > taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name > > > in > > > > sanskrit > > > > > > if u blv they r one /two .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *2) B4 seeing signs in vedas * > > > > > > > > > > > > *Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu > vedic > > > way > > > > in any > > > > > > where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its > > > Yogas > > > > ,signs > > > > > > and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real > > > proof > > > > that > > > > > > hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > > *also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also > previous > > > > sidhantha > > > > > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name > > > of > > > > ppl ,rishi > > > > > > kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge *.*Also > > > they r > > > > which > > > > > > nationality ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers > got > > > data > > > > b4 > > > > > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very > > > later .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct > > > data ??* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born > > > with > > > > when 5 > > > > > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of > > > rama > > > > also * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to > > > u ,also > > > > date > > > > > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > > > > explain ur > > > > > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .* > > > > > > > > > > > > *Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or > > > signs > > > > or > > > > > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice > > > versa > > > > .And > > > > > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us > > > to > > > > see Us > > > > > > charts only not war strategies . (origin ,growth ,kings ,when > > > greeks > > > > came etc > > > > > > etc ) * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy > > > according to > > > > U in > > > > > > vedas .* > > > > > > > > > > > > *7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya > > > sidhantha > > > > is > > > > > > wrong .and thesis .* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *More in next after i got answers .* > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *hope this time u dont miss points * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *dhanyavad * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > *regrds M Varma * > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " > > > > > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets > > > again > > > > > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the > > > burden of > > > > > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras > > > which > > > > > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha > > > Bhuktis > > > > and > > > > > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > > > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of > > > JPL/NASA > > > > > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them > > > from > > > > > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in > modern > > > > > > > astronomy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were > > > exlated ,so > > > > > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's > > > horoscope in > > > > > > > several forums including and > > > > HinduCalendar > > > > > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan > > > Ram was > > > > > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are > > > talking > > > > > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated > > > > anywhere > > > > > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > > > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, > > > leave > > > > alone > > > > > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > > > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which > > > are > > > > > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a > > > concoction by > > > > > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > > > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes > > > in > > > > > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You > > > have to > > > > > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or > > > mlechas .Here u > > > > name > > > > > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen > with > > > > recent > > > > > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya > Sidhanta, > > > was > > > > not > > > > > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > > > > hoodwink > > > > > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game > > > plan of > > > > > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just > > > devoted > > > > > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead > of > > > > > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to > > > do but > > > > > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better > > > knowledge > > > > of > > > > > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary > data > > > from > > > > > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret > by > > > now > > > > > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the > > > most > > > > > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya > Bhagwan > > > they > > > > > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar > > > of > > > > > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And > > > it > > > > was > > > > > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > > > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may > be > > > your > > > > > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these > days > > > who > > > > > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of > them > > > > > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. > You > > > can > > > > > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of > > > spreading > > > > the > > > > > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they > > > call > > > > > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the > > > Vedas! And > > > > > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the > > > trinkets > > > > > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several > vedic- > > > > > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, > > > in the > > > > > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to > you! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am > > > pointing > > > > out > > > > > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > > > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a > > > deep > > > > > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " maheswara_varma " > > > > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real > > > name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets > > > again > > > > > > > may b > > > > > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which > > > varahamihira > > > > also > > > > > > > told > > > > > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > > > > zodiac ) > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )- this is > > > just > > > > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose > > > full > > > > hidden > > > > > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i > > > dont > > > > blv > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u > > > shud > > > > > > > learn > > > > > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which > is > > > > real or > > > > > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur > > > approach > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct > > > when > > > > > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse > > > as it > > > > is > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat > he > > > > > > > said .Again > > > > > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > > > > > questions to > > > > > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to > > > proov > > > > ur > > > > > > > points > > > > > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise > > > why u > > > > dont > > > > > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was > > > waiting > > > > for > > > > > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know -- > > > again i > > > > > > > stress > > > > > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont > > > know > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding > > > > Vedas-vis- > > > > > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the > > > mantras > > > > from > > > > > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any > indigenous > > > > > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > > > mlechha--- > > > > > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > > > > Rashis! > > > > > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is > > > Vedic, > > > > > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis > > > calculated > > > > > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like > > > Mangal > > > > and > > > > > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four > > > Vedas > > > > and > > > > > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > > in the > > > > > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible > > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of > > > non- > > > > > > > > existent rashis! > > > > > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > > > > > astrology " > > > > > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard > > > predictiv > > > > > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were > > > exlated ,so > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever > > > may b > > > > > > > names > > > > > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me > some > > > > recent > > > > > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > > > > appreciated > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period > > > with > > > > help > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying > to > > > > find > > > > > > > lost > > > > > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont > > > think > > > > it > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority > > > has no > > > > > > > time to > > > > > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u > > > blv we > > > > > > > shud b > > > > > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain > > > vedas ,purnas > > > > or > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or > > > mlechas .Here u > > > > > > > name is > > > > > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen > with > > > > recent > > > > > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the > > > truth > > > > ,what > > > > > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires > > > were > > > > all > > > > > > > gurus > > > > > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in > > > india and > > > > > > > india > > > > > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even > > > blvers > > > > and > > > > > > > non > > > > > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp > > > when > > > > > > > reverence > > > > > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also > agree > > > > .Even i > > > > > > > dont > > > > > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some > > > material > > > > > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > > > > science > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware > > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > > > astronomically! > > > > > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no > > > astronomer > > > > has > > > > > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no > > > problem > > > > ,in > > > > > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on > > > mental > > > > > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude > or > > > > even > > > > > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces > for > > > > economic > > > > > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > > > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek > constellations, > > > > which > > > > > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on > > > any " equal > > > > > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we > > > got > > > > astro > > > > > > > frm > > > > > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha > also > > > > yevana > > > > > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which > > > says > > > > > > > yevana are > > > > > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons > > > of > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar > > > months > > > > ( > > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is > > > moving ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) ) ( it > > > is not > > > > > > > stars > > > > > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and > various > > > amsa > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division > > > only > > > > in > > > > > > > nadi > > > > > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we > shud > > > > > > > depend > > > > > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of > a > > > > > > > zodiac ??is > > > > > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to > > > call > > > > him > > > > > > > fraud > > > > > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to > greeks > > > > which > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > > > > deleted > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > > > > Jyotishi, > > > > > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has > claimed > > > more > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur > > > karma > > > > is > > > > > > > fate > > > > > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in > > > right > > > > > > > direction > > > > > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in > > > every > > > > field > > > > > > > esp > > > > > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > > > > assessment! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > > > > practical > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > > > > > (chandrayaan > > > > > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec > b4 > > > > > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various > > > liv > > > > tests > > > > > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be > > > bracketed as > > > > a > > > > > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > > > > eclipses > > > > > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those > > > eclipse > > > > > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > Similarly, > > > > > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already-- and > > > that > > > > also > > > > > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any > > > factual > > > > > > > reports > > > > > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple > > > i blv > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers > > > are > > > > > > > generaly > > > > > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas > unless > > > they > > > > > > > trained > > > > > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in > > > gurukula > > > > and > > > > > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of > yrs > > > b4 > > > > in > > > > > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then > also > > > > > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian > > > astronomers or > > > > > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few > > > minits ) i > > > > > > > dont > > > > > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back > .But > > > the > > > > 3 > > > > > > > hrs or > > > > > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > > > > astronomers > > > > > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent > > > > accuracy " in > > > > > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse > > > that is > > > > > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take > > > place > > > > > > > earlier > > > > > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what > > > happened > > > > in > > > > > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several > > > hours, > > > > if > > > > > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya > Sidhanta > > > of > > > > Maya > > > > > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why > > > dont u > > > > go > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in > > > frnt of > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was > expected > > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other > > > spacecraft > > > > you > > > > > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those > > > experiments! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > > > > diffrnt > > > > > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking > > > predictive > > > > > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani > > > etc. > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through > > > some > > > > > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra > > > or > > > > > > > Manduka > > > > > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me > by > > > > about 30 > > > > > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon > > > as my > > > > > > > Rahu- > > > > > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis > > > themsleves > > > > are > > > > > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or > Tazika > > > > system > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system > > > like > > > > > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > > > > another > > > > > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing > > > r all > > > > > > > indian > > > > > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( > > > even > > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u > > > saying > > > > in > > > > > > > vedas > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is > > > being > > > > > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > > > > supposed to > > > > > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > > > > astrology > > > > > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of > creation--that > > > > means > > > > > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > > > > themselves, > > > > > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > > > > accurate > > > > > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > > > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar > > > Ayanamsha is > > > > the > > > > > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > > > > Ayanamsha > > > > > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp > > > than > > > > > > > pumping > > > > > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on > > > this . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive > > > techniques and > > > > > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the > > > real > > > > date > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta > > > Sampat > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > > > > Dipavali or > > > > > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct > > > days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > > > > calander > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in > > > 6 or > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space science > > > > /rockets > > > > > > > etc r > > > > > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > > > > > mentioned in > > > > > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u > never > > > > find > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or > do > > > u > > > > hav > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate > > > your > > > > > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I > > > going to > > > > be > > > > > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is > > > neither > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to > > > read > > > > > > > books > > > > > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so > > > then i > > > > dont > > > > > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said > it > > > is > > > > ur > > > > > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks > > > in > > > > vedic > > > > > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology > 100 > > > > times > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > > > > > too ,even u > > > > > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than > > > reality in > > > > > > > seeing > > > > > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also > > > dont > > > > > > > invite me > > > > > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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