Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Kaul ji pls reply for this post dear kaul ji Namaskar Thanks for ur mail . i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own observations are coming back as questions . for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . so here my revised questions for ur answers . so answer this pls 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r which nationality ?? 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur narration or understanding of astronomy in it . Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came etc etc ) 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in vedas . 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is wrong .and thesis . More in next after i got answers . hope this time u dont miss points dhanyavad regrds M Varma , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Maheswara Varmaji,> Namaskar!> You are discussing predictive gimmicks vis-a-vis the Vedas and also > modern astronomy!> Instead of sticking to the points of discussions, you are raising > irrelevant and immaterial questions just to obfuscate the issue!> > If you have really some knowledge of the Vedas and other shastras, > and even modern astronomy, do contribute something worthwhile to the > discussions. Otherwise just keep quiet!> > For example, if you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, you > have to tell us as to which Vedic astronomical work was used by Vedic > rishis for calculatign horoscopes etc.> You have to prove it that there were such astronomical works and not > raise unnecessary extraneous issues!> > My stand is that prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha, > there was no mention of any Mesha,Vrisha etc. rashis in any of the > indigenous astronomical works. You have to prove me wrong by quoting > the exact shlokas from the astronomical works that talked of Mesha, > Vrisha etc. Rashis before Surya Sidhanta!> > Since Varahamihra has praised the Surya Sidhanta as spashta-taro > savitrah, it means that he was preparig horoscopes etc. from the > panchangas based on that very work. The Surya Sidhanta has > absolutely wrong fundamental arguments, which means that if anybody > could make correct predictions from the horoscopes based on those > astronomical parameters, he must have been a charlatan---because only > charlatans can make correct predictions from incorrect data!> > You have also to tell us as to which phalita jyotisha books were > around before Sphujidwaja's Yavana Jatakam, on the basis of which > predictions based on Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were made. You have > to prove your stand, since you claim to be a jyotishi according to > whom rashi based predictive gimmicks are of Indian origin.> > Regardig there being about half a dozen horoscopes of Bhagwan Rama > ranging from 157 BCE to 9000 BCE prepared by various Vedic > astrologers on the basis of one and the same Valmiki Ramayana, it is > clear that all of them cannot be correct though all of them may be > wrong! No planetary phenomenon repeats itself in toto about half a > dozen times just within a span of 10000 years! As such, the > horoscopes of Bhagwan Ram floating around are the worst concoctions!> > LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST POINT, YOU HAVE TO TELL US AS TO WHY "VEDIC > ASTROLOGERS" ARE COMPELLING US TO CELEBRATE UTTARAYANA ON JANUARY 15 > INSTEAD OF DECEMBER 21. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY OUR > PANCHANGAS ARE NOT BEING MADE AS PER THE VEDANGA JYOTISHA, WHICH > TALKS OF MADHU, MADHAVA ETC. MONTHS AND INSTEAD OF LAHIRI MESHA, > VRISHA ETC. RASHIS. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY, IF AT ALL > ALL WE HAVE TO USE MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHI, why ARE WE NOT USING THE > PAURANIC MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS INSTEAD OF LAHIRI OR RAMANA RASHIS > ETC., WHICH MEANS THAT IF AT ALL THERE IS ANY MAKAR SANKRANTI AS PER > THE PURANAS, IT IS THE SHORTEST DAY OF THE YEAR--KNOWN AS > UTTARAYANA/WINTER SOLSTICE. Same is the case with all the other > Rashis of the Puranas---they are all related to a seaosonal year! > Why are "Vedic astrologers" making us celebrate all the sankrantis on > Lahiri Rashichakra instead of the Pauranic Rashichakra?> Don't you think "Vedic astrologers" are making the entire Hindu > community dharma-brast thus? What are you going to do about it? > Dhnyavad.> AKK> > > , "maheswara_varma" > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear kaul ji> > > > Namaskar> > > > > > > > Thanks for ur mail .> > > > > > > > i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own> > observations are coming back as questions .> > > > for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was > purely a> > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove > anything ,even> > so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also > can> > do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and > thithi . I> > think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in > astrology .Even> > possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get> > similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs .> > > > Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b > there to> > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails .> > > > > > > > so here my revised questions for ur answers .> > > > > > > > so answer this pls> > > > > > > > 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in> > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and> > nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's > name> > in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two .> > > > > > > > 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas> > > > Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way > in> > any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its > Yogas> > ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as > real> > proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ??> > > > > > > > also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous > sidhantha> > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of > ppl> > ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also > they r> > which nationality ??> > > > > > > > 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data > b4> > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later .> > > > > > > > if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ??> > > > > > > > 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with > when 5> > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama > also> > > > > > > > > > > > If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also > date> > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > explain ur> > narration or understanding of astronomy in it .> > > > Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs > or> > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas .> > > > > > > > 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice > versa .And> > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to > see Us> > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks > came> > etc etc )> > > > > > > > 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to > U in> > vedas .> > > > 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha > is> > wrong .and thesis .> > > > > > > > More in next after i got answers .> > > > > > > > hope this time u dont miss points> > > > > > > > dhanyavad> > > > > > > > regrds M Varma> > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?)> > > Namaskar!> > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again> > > may bmillions of them r there>> > >> > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions!> > >> > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of> > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which> > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis > and> > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets.> > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA> > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from> > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern> > > astronomy!> > >> > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so> > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??>> > >> > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in> > > several forums including and > HinduCalendar> > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has "proved" (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was> > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking> > > about! Some other gentlemen "proved" that He had Incarnated > anywhere> > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE!> > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave > alone> > > astronomy! There are certain "combinations" in the so called> > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are> > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by> > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage!> > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in> > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to> > > give the exact quotations!> > >> > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > name> > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > recent> > > devlpemnts in india.>> > >> > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was > not> > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > hoodwink> > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of> > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted> > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of> > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but> > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge > of> > > statecraft than Hitler!> > >> > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from> > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now> > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most> > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they> > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of> > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it > was> > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas!> > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your> > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed!> > >> > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas "Rishis" these days who> > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them> > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can> > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > knowledge> > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading > the> > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call> > > deliberately as "Vedic astrology" just to denigrate the Vedas! And> > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets> > > these overseas "Vamadevas" are peddling through several vedic-> > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the> > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you!> > >> > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing > out> > > such harsh facts to you!> > > Wake up, my dear "Maheswhar" (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep> > > slumber of ignorance!> > > Dhanyavad.> > > AKK> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "maheswara_varma"> > > maheswara_varma@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > dear kaul ji> > > >> > > > namaskar to u> > > >> > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again> > > may b> > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira > also> > > told> > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > zodiac )> > > not> > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just> > > > introduction> > > >> > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full > hidden> > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont > blv> > > in> > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud> > > learn> > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is > real or> > > > fabricated .> > > >> > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur > approach .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when> > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as > it is> > > not> > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he> > > said .Again> > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking> > > questions to> > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov > ur> > > points> > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u > dont> > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was > waiting for> > > > last 20 days> > > >> > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i> > > stress> > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know > to> > > the> > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner )> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas-> vis-> > > > vis "Vedic astrology". All I am asking is to quote the mantras > from> > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous> > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > mlechha---> > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > Rashis!> > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic,> > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated> > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like > Mangal and> > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas > and> > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.> > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the> > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that > the> > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non-> > > > existent rashis!> > > > Thus, to call any predictive "techniques" (sic!) as "Vedic> > > astrology"> > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas!> > > >> > > > ####> > > >> > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv> > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics> > > >> > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so> > > without> > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b> > > names> > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some > recent> > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > appreciated> > > in> > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with > help> > > of> > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to > find> > > lost> > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think > it> > > is> > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose .> > > >> > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no> > > time to> > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we> > > shud b> > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas > or> > > what> > > > ever it is .> > > >> > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u> > > name is> > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > recent> > > > devlpemnts in india .> > > >> > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the > truth ,what> > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were > all> > > gurus> > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and> > > india> > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers > and> > > non> > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when> > > reverence> > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also > agree .Even i> > > dont> > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material> > > > purposes .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > science> > > it> > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that > the> > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal> > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > astronomically!> > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer > has> > > > attempted it till date!> > > >> > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no > problem ,in> > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental> > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or > even> > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for > economic> > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > purpose> > > >> > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually> > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, > which> > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any "equal> > > > twelve divisios" of the zodiac can never be scientific!> > > >> > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got > astro> > > frm> > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also > yevana> > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says> > > yevana are> > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of> > > some> > > > rishis like nagas or asuras .> > > >> > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months > (> > > sun> > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ).> > > >> > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13"20 ") )( it is not> > > stars> > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3"20')and various amsa> > > to> > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only > in> > > nadi> > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud> > > depend> > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a> > > zodiac ??is> > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call > him> > > fraud> > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks > which> > > even> > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > deleted> > > that> > > > stanza >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > Jyotishi,> > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more> > > than> > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions.> > > >> > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur > karma is> > > fate> > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right> > > direction> > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems .> > > >> > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every > field> > > esp> > > > in this kali era .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > As per their own> > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > assessment!> > > >> > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > practical> > > in> > > > applying other than pure mathematics .> > > >> > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission> > > (chandrayaan> > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4> > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv > tests> > > > still going on to make sure of it .> > > >> > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as > a> > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy!> > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > eclipses> > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse> > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly,> > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that > also> > > > correct to the nearest decimal second!> > > >> > > > ###> > > >> > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual> > > reports> > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i > blv )> > > >> > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are> > > generaly> > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they> > > trained> > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula > and> > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 > in> > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also> > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas.> > > >> > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or> > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i> > > dont> > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the > 3> > > hrs or> > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say .> > > >> > > >> > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > astronomers> > > > will make of themselves if they claim "seventy per cent > accuracy" in> > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is> > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place> > > earlier> > > > of later by at least three hours and so on!> > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened > in> > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several > hours, if> > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of > Maya> > > > the mlechha!> > > >> > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u > go> > > and> > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of> > > world> > > > renounced astronomers and scientists .> > > >> > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in > the> > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft > you> > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments!> > > >> > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv> > > astrologers> > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > diffrnt> > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations .> > > >> > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive> > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc.> > > planets> > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some> > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or> > > Manduka> > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by > about 30> > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my> > > Rahu-> > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves > are> > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > system> > > or> > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like> > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > another> > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences!> > > >> > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all> > > indian> > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones> > > >> > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even> > > without a> > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying > in> > > vedas> > > > )> > > >> > > >> > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being> > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > supposed to> > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > astrology> > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that > means> > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > themselves,> > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > accurate> > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > Ayanamsha> > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is > the> > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > Ayanamsha> > > > beats all the others and so on!> > > >> > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than> > > pumping> > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this .> > > >> > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and> > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real > date> > > of> > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat > etc.> > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > Dipavali or> > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days!> > > >> > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > calander> > > which> > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or > 7> > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur> > > understanding> > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us .> > > >> > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space > science /rockets> > > etc r> > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not> > > mentioned in> > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never > find> > > we> > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u > hav> > > some> > > > other arguemnts against it too )> > > >> > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your> > > > larger than life ego?> > > >> > > > ###### []> > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going > to be> > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither > Vedic> > > > nor scientific.> > > >> > > > ### Think whose logic is useless .> > > >> > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read> > > books> > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i > dont> > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is > ur> > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in > vedic> > > > astrology .> > > >> > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 > times> > > with> > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried> > > too ,even u> > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in> > > seeing> > > > it .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont> > > invite me> > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > regrds M varma .> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Shri Maheswara Varmaji, Namaskar! <-sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs .> I have already told you that if horoscope A is prepared for a particular point of time, the same planetary position can never be repeated about half a dozen times over about ten thousand years! Why can't you understand this simple scientific fact? In any case, I am posting separately a copy of my post to Shri Sreenadh from HinduCalendar forum regarding Bhagwan Ram's 157 BC horoscopes as erected by him. <1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two .> You claim to be a " Vedic astrologer " . It is, as such, for you to explain all the jargon that you are talking about like the meaning of Graha in Sanskrit and as to how different they are from the planets calculated by NASA/JPL etc. etc. BTW, what has the total number of stars and planets in the universe to do with " Vedic astrology " ? Do you use all the billions and trillions of them for predicting someone's future? <so here my revised questions> So above are my revised answers! Now pl. answer my questions and quote the shlokas from the Vedas that talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mirthuna etc. Rashis. Pl. also explain as to why Maya, a Greek astronomer/astrologer, was not a mlechha when Varahmihira himself called Yavnas as mlechhas, especially since Maya was also liar and a cheat! Pl. also let us know as to which was the rashi based work of predictive gimmicks prior to the Yavanajatakm of Sphujidwaja? Dhanyavad. AKK , " maheswara_varma " <maheswara_varma wrote: > > > > > Kaul ji pls reply for this post > > > > dear kaul ji > > Namaskar > > > > Thanks for ur mail . > > > > i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > observations are coming back as questions . > > for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was purely a > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove anything ,even > so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also can > do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and thithi . I > think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in astrology .Even > possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get > similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . > > Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b there to > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . > > > > so here my revised questions for ur answers . > > > > so answer this pls > > > > 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and > nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's name > in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . > > > > 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas > > Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way in > any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its Yogas > ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as real > proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? > > > > also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous sidhantha > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of ppl > ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also they r > which nationality ?? > > > > 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data b4 > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . > > > > if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? > > > > 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with when 5 > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama also > > > > > > If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also date > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also explain ur > narration or understanding of astronomy in it . > > Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs or > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . > > > > 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice versa .And > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to see Us > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks came > etc etc ) > > > > 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to U in > vedas . > > 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha is > wrong .and thesis . > > > > More in next after i got answers . > > > > hope this time u dont miss points > > > > dhanyavad > > > > regrds M Varma > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Maheswara Varmaji, > > Namaskar! > > You are discussing predictive gimmicks vis-a-vis the Vedas and also > > modern astronomy! > > Instead of sticking to the points of discussions, you are raising > > irrelevant and immaterial questions just to obfuscate the issue! > > > > If you have really some knowledge of the Vedas and other shastras, > > and even modern astronomy, do contribute something worthwhile to the > > discussions. Otherwise just keep quiet! > > > > For example, if you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, you > > have to tell us as to which Vedic astronomical work was used by Vedic > > rishis for calculatign horoscopes etc. > > You have to prove it that there were such astronomical works and not > > raise unnecessary extraneous issues! > > > > My stand is that prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha, > > there was no mention of any Mesha,Vrisha etc. rashis in any of the > > indigenous astronomical works. You have to prove me wrong by quoting > > the exact shlokas from the astronomical works that talked of Mesha, > > Vrisha etc. Rashis before Surya Sidhanta! > > > > Since Varahamihra has praised the Surya Sidhanta as spashta-taro > > savitrah, it means that he was preparig horoscopes etc. from the > > panchangas based on that very work. The Surya Sidhanta has > > absolutely wrong fundamental arguments, which means that if anybody > > could make correct predictions from the horoscopes based on those > > astronomical parameters, he must have been a charlatan---because only > > charlatans can make correct predictions from incorrect data! > > > > You have also to tell us as to which phalita jyotisha books were > > around before Sphujidwaja's Yavana Jatakam, on the basis of which > > predictions based on Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were made. You have > > to prove your stand, since you claim to be a jyotishi according to > > whom rashi based predictive gimmicks are of Indian origin. > > > > Regardig there being about half a dozen horoscopes of Bhagwan Rama > > ranging from 157 BCE to 9000 BCE prepared by various Vedic > > astrologers on the basis of one and the same Valmiki Ramayana, it is > > clear that all of them cannot be correct though all of them may be > > wrong! No planetary phenomenon repeats itself in toto about half a > > dozen times just within a span of 10000 years! As such, the > > horoscopes of Bhagwan Ram floating around are the worst concoctions! > > > > LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST POINT, YOU HAVE TO TELL US AS TO WHY " VEDIC > > ASTROLOGERS " ARE COMPELLING US TO CELEBRATE UTTARAYANA ON JANUARY 15 > > INSTEAD OF DECEMBER 21. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY OUR > > PANCHANGAS ARE NOT BEING MADE AS PER THE VEDANGA JYOTISHA, WHICH > > TALKS OF MADHU, MADHAVA ETC. MONTHS AND INSTEAD OF LAHIRI MESHA, > > VRISHA ETC. RASHIS. YOU HAVE ALSO TO TELL US AS TO WHY, IF AT ALL > > ALL WE HAVE TO USE MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHI, why ARE WE NOT USING THE > > PAURANIC MESHA, VRISHA ETC. RASHIS INSTEAD OF LAHIRI OR RAMANA RASHIS > > ETC., WHICH MEANS THAT IF AT ALL THERE IS ANY MAKAR SANKRANTI AS PER > > THE PURANAS, IT IS THE SHORTEST DAY OF THE YEAR--KNOWN AS > > UTTARAYANA/WINTER SOLSTICE. Same is the case with all the other > > Rashis of the Puranas---they are all related to a seaosonal year! > > Why are " Vedic astrologers " making us celebrate all the sankrantis on > > Lahiri Rashichakra instead of the Pauranic Rashichakra? > > Don't you think " Vedic astrologers " are making the entire Hindu > > community dharma-brast thus? What are you going to do about it? > > Dhnyavad. > > AKK > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for ur mail . > > > > > > > > > > > > i think u miss point wise to giv answers .Also some of my own > > > observations are coming back as questions . > > > > > > for exmple --sri sreenadh ji dated Lord rama's Birth --it was > > purely a > > > back progression method i assume ,and it was not to prove > > anything ,even > > > so called astronomers or any subjuct experts can do it .even u also > > can > > > do it ,once givn planetary positions and birth nakshtra and > > thithi . I > > > think it is child 's play if some one knows basics in > > astrology .Even > > > possibility is that we may arrive so many occassions when u can get > > > similar charts in 10s of 1000s of yrs . > > > > > > Also we r paying for their reserch too .So a law also shud b > > there to > > > prosecute all such ppl who ever experiments and fails . > > > > > > > > > > > > so here my revised questions for ur answers . > > > > > > > > > > > > so answer this pls > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) How many planets in universe ?? what is the meaning of Graha in > > > sanskrit .Also wat is number total stars in universe ,is stars and > > > nakshtras taken equaly in vedas ??also giv me meaning of each one's > > name > > > in sanskrit if u blv they r one /two . > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) B4 seeing signs in vedas > > > > > > Show me one book deals with predictiv astrology in Hindu vedic way > > in > > > any where in greek or other cultures .Also all this amsas and its > > Yogas > > > ,signs and all those dasa -upadasa as u claims.That will work as > > real > > > proof that hindus stole it frm greeks or freeks right ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > also proof of Maya is mlecha or yavana as u say .also previous > > sidhantha > > > s what varahmihira says is gone obselet and their origin ,name of > > ppl > > > ,rishi kula ,place of birth tru ur his- storical knowledge .Also > > they r > > > which nationality ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Pls illuminate us how indian astronomers or astrologers got data > > b4 > > > nasa or even USA which is b4 300 yrs only formed ,nasa very later . > > > > > > > > > > > > if u blv it is predictiv gimmik then why they need correct data ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)Do u Blv valmiki wrote ramayana and he said so -rama born with > > when 5 > > > planets in swauchha time .Did he said nakshtra and thithi of rama > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u blv rama was real one wat may b his date according to u ,also > > date > > > of vedas born as it was downloaded frm heavens in a day .Also > > explain ur > > > narration or understanding of astronomy in it . > > > > > > Then i will ask u later for each reference wheter planets or signs > > or > > > dasas in vedas /upanishaths or puranas . > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Also proof of Greeks are yevans or yevans are greeks vice > > versa .And > > > indian history according to ur understanding as they wanted us to > > see Us > > > charts only not war strategies .(origin ,growth ,kings ,when greeks > > came > > > etc etc ) > > > > > > > > > > > > 6)what is name in sanskrit for astrology and astronomy according to > > U in > > > vedas . > > > > > > 7) proof of ur detailed study of all sidhanthas esp surya sidhantha > > is > > > wrong .and thesis . > > > > > > > > > > > > More in next after i got answers . > > > > > > > > > > > > hope this time u dont miss points > > > > > > > > > > > > dhanyavad > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M Varma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Maheswara Varma JI, (Are you Maheswara or Maheshwara?) > > > > Namaskar! > > > > <First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > > may bmillions of them r there> > > > > > > > > For God's sake, cut this crap from your discussions! > > > > > > > > If you call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology, the burden of > > > > proof lies on you! You have to quote the exact Vedic mantras which > > > > talk of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. Rashis and then Dasha Bhuktis > > and > > > > Mangal and Shani etc. planets. > > > > Secondly, if you are talking of grahas and not planets of JPL/NASA > > > > data then you have to tell us as wo how you calculate them from > > > > JPL/NASA data which are meant for the planets known in modern > > > > astronomy! > > > > > > > > <sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > > without rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ??> > > > > > > > > There had been a lot of discussion about Shri Rama's horoscope in > > > > several forums including and > > HinduCalendar > > > > forum where Shri Sreenadh has " proved " (sic!) that Bhagwan Ram was > > > > born in 157 BCE, as per the planetary combinations you are talking > > > > about! Some other gentlemen " proved " that He had Incarnated > > anywhere > > > > between 3000 BCE and 9000 BCE! > > > > It also appears that you do not know even ABC of ganitam, leave > > alone > > > > astronomy! There are certain " combinations " in the so called > > > > horoscope of Bhagwan Rama that you are talking about, which are > > > > astronomically impossible! Obviously, they are all a concoction by > > > > some good fo nothing jyotishi at a much later stage! > > > > Regarding your claim that there are references to horoscopes in > > > > Puranas also, again, the burden of proof lies on you! You have to > > > > give the exact quotations! > > > > > > > > <Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > name > > > > is atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > recent > > > > devlpemnts in india.> > > > > > > > > Maya, who has admitted to having compiled the Surya Sidhanta, was > > not > > > > a Rishi! He was a Greek astronomer/astrologer who wanted to > > hoodwink > > > > India by spreading jyotish. That could have been the game plan of > > > > Greek rulers to make Indians astro-buffs so that they just devoted > > > > their time and energy towards discussing horoscopes instead of > > > > preparing a war strategy! That is what Hitler also tried to do but > > > > it boomeranged on him because the Britons had a better knowledge > > of > > > > statecraft than Hitler! > > > > > > > > Maya had said that he had got the knowledge of planetary data from > > > > Surya Bhagwan by dint of his tapasya! It is an open secret by now > > > > that the fundamental arguments of the Surya Sidhanta are the most > > > > inaccurate ones. If they had been obtained from Surya Bhagwan they > > > > would never have been so monstrous! As such, Maya was a liar of > > > > first order! He was a liar only because he was a Yavana! And it > > was > > > > Varahamihira himself who had called Yavanas as mlechhas! > > > > So to call a liar and fraud a Rishi instead of mlechha may be your > > > > gameplan! But the truth has to be exposed! > > > > > > > > Similarly, there are quite a few overseas " Rishis " these days who > > > > call themselves Vamadevas and what not. I know several of them > > > > personally and have read their articles as well as books. You can > > > > rest assured that they have a game plan---to spread false > > knowledge > > > > of Vedic lore throughout the world under the pretext of spreading > > the > > > > so called nirayana (actually niradhar!) astrology which they call > > > > deliberately as " Vedic astrology " just to denigrate the Vedas! And > > > > people like you are being taken in by them! Just see the trinkets > > > > these overseas " Vamadevas " are peddling through several vedic- > > > > astrology forums! They are actually to earn some fast buck, in the > > > > name of selling remediala shankh and gems and what not to you! > > > > > > > > And you call me a missionary and what not because I am pointing > > out > > > > such harsh facts to you! > > > > Wake up, my dear " Maheswhar " (or is it Maheswar?)from such a deep > > > > slumber of ignorance! > > > > Dhanyavad. > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " maheswara_varma " > > > > maheswara_varma@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear kaul ji > > > > > > > > > > namaskar to u > > > > > > > > > > pls call me varma not verma ,i like to call me by my real name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all our vedic astrologers used grahas not planets again > > > > may b > > > > > millions of them r there ( in this universe which varahamihira > > also > > > > told > > > > > in his samhitas and horas ) ) also nakshtras ( one area in > > zodiac ) > > > > not > > > > > billions of stars ( twinkle twinkle little stars )-this is just > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > > > It doesnot mean that u can ask all ur ignorence /purpose full > > hidden > > > > > agendas to me and i shud answer u .it is not my aim too ,i dont > > blv > > > > in > > > > > correcting any one who is deliberate/ignorent .If u want u shud > > > > learn > > > > > frm good gurus .So avoid me to answer all ur doubts which is > > real or > > > > > fabricated . > > > > > > > > > > but i used those lines abov to show the diffrnce in ur > > approach . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even i blv what sri vijaya raghavan ji has said is correct when > > > > > mentioned in his approach with results than seeing reverse as > > it is > > > > not > > > > > intelligent for ur present understanding ( mis ) like wat he > > > > said .Again > > > > > i blv all secrets r to the seeker than shouting and asking > > > > questions to > > > > > others irrespectv of their knowledge with only aim is to proov > > ur > > > > points > > > > > forcibly knowing many ppls level of knowledge .other wise why u > > dont > > > > > agree to see in the light of actual results which he was > > waiting for > > > > > last 20 days > > > > > > > > > > .( also i may hold some secrets with me even if i know --again i > > > > stress > > > > > here dont ask me ur doubts if u dont know tell that u dont know > > to > > > > the > > > > > grp and clear off in a decent manner ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is not much of an explanation to be done regarding Vedas- > > vis- > > > > > vis " Vedic astrology " . All I am asking is to quote the mantras > > from > > > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha---or any indigenous > > > > > astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the > > mlechha--- > > > > > that talks about Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. astrological > > Rashis! > > > > > Similarly, if someone claims that predictive astrology is Vedic, > > > > > he/she must also tell us as to how the Vedic Rishis calculated > > > > > horoscopes of every Tom, Dick and Harry when planets like > > Mangal and > > > > > Shani are conspicuous by their absence from all the four Vedas > > and > > > > > the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. > > > > > Obviously, as there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the > > > > > Vedas etc. nor Mangal and Shani planets, it is impossible that > > the > > > > > Vedic Seers practised predictive gimmicks on the basis of non- > > > > > existent rashis! > > > > > Thus, to call any predictive " techniques " (sic!) as " Vedic > > > > astrology " > > > > > is nothing but a fraud on the Vedas! > > > > > > > > > > #### > > > > > > > > > > U r saying so ,but there is lot of instances i heard predictiv > > > > > astrology in veda ,puranas and epics > > > > > > > > > > sage valmiki said Lord ram born when 5 planets were exlated ,so > > > > without > > > > > rasi how come exlatation debilation can come ?? what ever may b > > > > names > > > > > of rasis ,after all wat is in a name ?? ( dont tell me some > > recent > > > > > experiments by some one is proof of ur theory it shud b > > appreciated > > > > in > > > > > that sense when some one try to date Lord rama 's period with > > help > > > > of > > > > > some SW or his understanding ),even archeologist r trying to > > find > > > > lost > > > > > dwaraka under sea ,so any finding goes wrong later i dont think > > it > > > > is > > > > > worth humiliating it than u hav a diffrnt purpose . > > > > > > > > > > if u quote vedas we hav to strt frm begining as majority has no > > > > time to > > > > > read and study it and we never asked ur opinions ,so if u blv we > > > > shud b > > > > > informed,then it becomes ur head ache to explain vedas ,purnas > > or > > > > what > > > > > ever it is . > > > > > > > > > > Also i request u pls dont call rishis frauds or mlechas .Here u > > > > name is > > > > > atleast a hindu one other wise u know what will happen with > > recent > > > > > devlpemnts in india . > > > > > > > > > > Again i stress here it shud not prevent u frm saying the > > truth ,what > > > > > happened in ur so called greece or all western countires were > > all > > > > gurus > > > > > or even scientists were hanged or prosecuted unlike in india and > > > > india > > > > > it never happend with my small historical knowldge .even blvers > > and > > > > non > > > > > blvrs co existed here .but calling names is unwanted esp when > > > > reverence > > > > > is given to them by many lacs of ppl which u may also > > agree .Even i > > > > dont > > > > > think they wrote all this to extract money or with some material > > > > > purposes . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming to your second point that predictive gimmicks are a > > science > > > > it > > > > > appears you are blisfully (or is it deliberately?) unaware that > > the > > > > > zodiac cannot be divided into twelve neat and equal > > > > > divisions/compatments like Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis > > astronomically! > > > > > That just is an impossible task and that is why no astronomer > > has > > > > > attempted it till date! > > > > > > > > > > #### any astronomer can try it deviding the zodiac , no > > problem ,in > > > > > maths we r doing it or even in any other experiments ( on mental > > > > > /theoretical level level ) ,even longititude and latitude or > > even > > > > > division of electrorates in democarcy or even provinces for > > economic > > > > > purpose etc all r fictious but convenient for a purticular > > purpose > > > > > > > > > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis are actually > > > > > Sanskritization of Aries, Taurus etc. Greek constellations, > > which > > > > > were and are unequal! Thus any predictions based on any " equal > > > > > twelve divisios " of the zodiac can never be scientific! > > > > > > > > > > ### yes ,u can say so ,as it is ur opinion .I dont blv we got > > astro > > > > frm > > > > > greeks as it is based on punarjanma and karma sidhantha also > > yevana > > > > > means not greeks there are many stories in puranas which says > > > > yevana are > > > > > hindus and indians but out casts in bookish sense but sons of > > > > some > > > > > rishis like nagas or asuras . > > > > > > > > > > This division of signs r based on suns movement or solar months > > ( > > > > sun > > > > > dont movin reality but earth but geocentricaly sun is moving ). > > > > > > > > > > even we further divide it into Nakhsatras (13 " 20 " ) )( it is not > > > > stars > > > > > like what u talks or says ) then navamsa (3 " 20')and various amsa > > > > to > > > > > nadimasas and ardha nadiamsa(d-300 but not equal division only > > in > > > > nadi > > > > > amsa--one rasi is seen as 1/300 th of division ) why we shud > > > > depend > > > > > greeks only for rasis which is 30 dgree of 12 division of a > > > > zodiac ??is > > > > > it holds water ,u depends on varhamihira s some sloka to call > > him > > > > fraud > > > > > and he took frm yevans and convenently assigns all to greeks > > which > > > > even > > > > > they will not agree .Poor him ,if he knows this he wud hav > > deleted > > > > that > > > > > stanza > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you must yourself be aware that as on date no > > Jyotishi, > > > > > howsoever great he/she may be or may have been, has claimed more > > > > than > > > > > seventy per cent success in his/her predictions. > > > > > > > > > > ### sure as he blvs in karmas ,past lifes free will and ur > > karma is > > > > fate > > > > > of this birth and this birth's free will and karma ( in right > > > > direction > > > > > ) can b work as a curing activity in case of problems . > > > > > > > > > > astrology dont support fatalistic approach ,frauds r in every > > field > > > > esp > > > > > in this kali era . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per their own > > > > > words, only God Almighty can make cent per cent correct > > assessment! > > > > > > > > > > #### yes,it is true with any branch of knowledge which is > > practical > > > > in > > > > > applying other than pure mathematics . > > > > > > > > > > even ISRO cheif madhavan nair was telling till the mission > > > > (chandrayaan > > > > > )is successful he cannot say it b4 hand ,not even one sec b4 > > > > > ,mathematicaly he said mission shud b succesful as various liv > > tests > > > > > still going on to make sure of it . > > > > > > > > > > It is thus clear that predcitve gimmicks cannot be bracketed as > > a > > > > > branch of astronomy, which demands cent per cent accuracy! > > > > > For example, we can calculate these days solar and lunar > > eclipses > > > > > that may take place hundreds of years hence---and those eclipse > > > > > timings are correct to the nearest decimal second! Similarly, > > > > > eclipses from 3000 BCE have been calculated already--and that > > also > > > > > correct to the nearest decimal second! > > > > > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > It is ur convenient arguemnt i blv .Since u dont hav any factual > > > > reports > > > > > based on actual incidents .( if true u can giv 1000 exmple i > > blv ) > > > > > > > > > > To my knowldge panchanga karta and predicting astrologers are > > > > generaly > > > > > diffrnt and predictiv astrologers depends panchangas unless they > > > > trained > > > > > in vedic gurukula tradition of 25 to 30 yrs living in gurukula > > and > > > > > learns ,which is not possible now a days ( even 100s of yrs b4 > > in > > > > > history ) because many reason including feasiblity then also > > > > > availability of such gurus and gurukulas. > > > > > > > > > > other wise can u tell me one instance were indian astronomers or > > > > > sidhanthies calculated wrongly ,even if so( say few minits ) i > > > > dont > > > > > worry as at least they hav that concept long long back .But the > > 3 > > > > hrs or > > > > > 4 hrs error is not digestable to me still as u say . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can well imagine as to what type of a laughing stock > > astronomers > > > > > will make of themselves if they claim " seventy per cent > > accuracy " in > > > > > the eclipse timings---which means that the solar eclipse that is > > > > > supposed to take place say at 3.00 pm in Delhi may take place > > > > earlier > > > > > of later by at least three hours and so on! > > > > > I may mention in the passing that that is exactly what happened > > in > > > > > the past---actual eclipse timings were plus/minus several > > hours, if > > > > > not days, from the calculations based on the Surya Sidhanta of > > Maya > > > > > the mlechha! > > > > > > > > > > ### i blv u r acting smart in frnt of novices if so why dont u > > go > > > > and > > > > > presnt ur paper on surya sidhantha in science forums in frnt of > > > > world > > > > > renounced astronomers and scientists . > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if just seventy per cent success is/was expected in > > the > > > > > landing timings of Voyager or Atlantis or any other spacecraft > > you > > > > > can appreciate the disastrous consequences of those experiments! > > > > > > > > > > ### astrology is not astronomy or viceversa .Why predictiv > > > > astrologers > > > > > shud b worried abt all those astronomical factors which is > > diffrnt > > > > > branch all together after intitial some assossiations . > > > > > > > > > > Then again, common sense also precludes our taking predictive > > > > > gimmicks as a branch of astronomy! How can Mangal, Shani etc. > > > > planets > > > > > affect every individual individually and that also through some > > > > > intangible Vimshotari or Ashtotari or Yogini or Kalachakra or > > > > Manduka > > > > > or Pluta Dasha etc. Similarly, if a Star is away from me by > > about 30 > > > > > Light Years, how can it affect me instantaneously as soon as my > > > > Rahu- > > > > > Dasha or Shani Dasha starts? Further more, jyotishis themsleves > > are > > > > > not sure whether they should go by Jaimini system or Tazika > > system > > > > or > > > > > Lal Kitab or KP or Brihat Samhita etc. or Western system like > > > > > Secondary Progressions etc. which are poles apart from one > > another > > > > > both in the fundamentals as well as the inferences! > > > > > > > > > > ### u say so ,but i find it diffrntly -equaly contributing r all > > > > indian > > > > > astro concepts ,i dont know much abt western ones > > > > > > > > > > also planets and rasis i told u reference with ramayana( even > > > > without a > > > > > zero factor no one can calculate even nakshtras which u saying > > in > > > > vedas > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, in spite of claiming that Vedic astrology is being > > > > > practised from the very dawn of creation---the Vedas are > > supposed to > > > > > exist from the very dawn of creation, which means Vedic > > astrology > > > > > must have been propagated from the day one of creation--that > > means > > > > > about two billion years, according to Vedic astrologers > > themselves, > > > > > they have yet to decide as to which Ayanamsha is the most > > accurate > > > > > for making predictions---Some are screaming about Lahiri > > Ayanamsha > > > > > being the best whereas others claim that Yuktshwar Ayanamsha is > > the > > > > > number one ayanamsha and still others claim Chandra Hari > > Ayanamsha > > > > > beats all the others and so on! > > > > > > > > > > ### Tell us wat u blv on vedas ,u never done it in any grp than > > > > pumping > > > > > some ready made questions .other wise i cannot talk on this . > > > > > > > > > > The net result of all this plethora of predictive techniques and > > > > > ayanamshas and what not has been that we do not know the real > > date > > > > of > > > > > Uttarayana or Dakshinayana or Vasanta Sampat or Hemanta Sampat > > etc. > > > > > and thus we never celebrate any of our festivals whether > > Dipavali or > > > > > Viajaya Dashmi or Mahavira Nkirvana Divas etc. on correct days! > > > > > > > > > > ### first of all we r talking abt astrology i blv ,not ur > > calander > > > > which > > > > > is yet to proov its efficacy ( not even used by one man in 6 or > > 7 > > > > > billion world population ) .i also told u it depends on ur > > > > understanding > > > > > abt vedas which u never explained to us . > > > > > > > > > > other wise we can say predictiv astrology /space > > science /rockets > > > > etc r > > > > > fraud on vedas and hindus shud not use even a cycle as not > > > > mentioned in > > > > > vedas (means u dont find it in vedas) .oh lucky me - u never > > find > > > > we > > > > > were not using cloths during vedic times ( i hope so ,or do u > > hav > > > > some > > > > > other arguemnts against it too ) > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you want us to continue doing just to placate your > > > > > larger than life ego? > > > > > > > > > > ###### [] > > > > > Well, I am sorry I do not agree with you there nor am I going > > to be > > > > > taken in by such uselss logic and haranguing, that is neither > > Vedic > > > > > nor scientific. > > > > > > > > > > ### Think whose logic is useless . > > > > > > > > > > Hope i will b getting point wise answers than asking me to read > > > > books > > > > > or get some answers frm all the 100000s of books ,if so then i > > dont > > > > > need to interact here .Also i remind u again u only said it is > > ur > > > > > mission to make us understand on fraud of predictiv gimiks in > > vedic > > > > > astrology . > > > > > > > > > > I repeat i personaly can vouch the efficacy of astrology 100 > > times > > > > with > > > > > exmples which is my practical exprnce ,so i am not worried > > > > too ,even u > > > > > all r conducting some desk top type of arguemnts than reality in > > > > seeing > > > > > it . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also i request u to dont twist anything in my mails.Also dont > > > > invite me > > > > > /ask to join to more new forums to answer me . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds M varma . > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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