Guest guest Posted November 18, 2008 Report Share Posted November 18, 2008 Excerpts from Yoga Vasishtha Sara(The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha)An English Translation from the Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha Ramayana as it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets, traditionally attributed to Valmiki, the author of Srimad Ramayana. It is a dialogue between Sage Vasishta and Sri Rama, during which Advaita (the doctrine of non-duality) in its pure form of ajatavada (theory of non-origination) is expounded, with illustrative stories in between. This vast work was abridged some centuries ago by Abhinanda Pandita, a Kashmiri scholar, into 6,000 couplets, which go by the name of Laghu Yoga Vasishta. This is a masterpiece in itself, like the original Brihat. These are excerpts from a translation published by Sri Ramasramam in Tamil Nadu. Click Here for ordering information. Dispassion Salutations to that calm effulgence which is endless and unlimited by space, time etc., the pure consciousness which can be known by experience only. The great remedy for the long lasting disease of samsara is the enquiry, 'Who am I?, to whom does this samsara belong?,' which entirely cures it. Following the customary method of teaching is only for preserving the tradition. Pure awareness results solely from the clarity of the disciple's understanding. When pots, etc., are broken the space within them becomes unlimited. So also when bodies cease to exist the Self remains eternal and unattached. Nothing whatever is born or dies anywhere at any time. It is Brahman alone appearing illusorily in the form of the world. Unreality of the World The idea of a (live) snake in a picture of a snake ceases to be entertained when the truth is known. Similarly samsara ceases to exist (when the Truth is realized), even if it continues to appear. O Rama, maya is such that it brings delight through its own destruction; its nature is inscrutable; it ceases to exist even while it is being observed. Just as a tree consisting of fruits, leaves, creepers, flowers, branches, twigs and roots, exists in the seed of the tree, even so this manifest world exists in Brahman. Just as the dream becomes unreal in the waking state and the waking state in the dream, so also death becomes unreal in birth and birth in death. The Marks of a Liberated Person (Jivan Mukta) Like an empty vessel in space (the knower of Truth) is empty both within and without, while at the same time he is full within and without like a vessel immersed in the ocean. The noble-hearted man whose desires of the heart have come to an end is a liberated man; it does not matter whether he does or does not practice meditation or perform action. The idea of Self in the non-Self is bondage. Abandonment of it is liberation. There is neither bondage nor liberation for the ever-free Self. O Rama, there is no intellect, no nescience, no mind and no individual soul (jiva). They are all imagined in Brahman. Dissolution of the Mind Consciousness which is undivided imagines to itself desirable objects and runs after them. It is then known as the mind. Does not the fool feel ashamed to move about in the world as he pleases and talk about meditation when he is not able to conquer even the mind? Association with the wise, abandonment of latent impressions self-enquiry, control of breathing - these are the means of conquering the mind. The mind becomes bound by thinking 'I am not Brahman'; it becomes completely released by thinking 'I am Brahman'. The Destruction of Latent Impressions O Rama, this enquiry into the Self of the nature or 'Who am I?' is the fire which burns up the seeds of the evil tree which is the mind. The knowers of truth declare that enquiry into the truth of the Self is knowledge. What is to be known is contained in it like sweetness in milk. O pure soul, cherish the association of sages and the true scriptures; you will attain the state of Supreme Consciousness not in the course of months by days. Meditation on the Self I, the pure, stainless and infinite Consciousness beyond maya, look upon this body in action like the body of another. I am above everything; I am present everywhere; I am like space; I am that which (really) exists; I am unable to say anything beyond this. I prostrate to myself who am within all being, the ever free Self abiding as inner consciousness. Method of Purification O mighty-armed, be always free from mental concepts like the heart of a rock though not in sentient like it. Do not be that which is understood, nor the one who understands. Abandon all concepts and remain what you are. Worship of the Self If you separate yourself from the body and abide at ease in Consciousness you will become one (the sole Reality), everything else appearing (insignificant) like grass. O Raghava, that by which you recognize sound, taste, form and smell, know that as your Self, the Supreme Brahman, the Lord of lords. After rejecting, through reasoning, all that can be known as 'non-truth' what remains as pure Consciousness - regard that as your real Self. Exposition of the Self Just as the sky is (i.e. appears to be) stained by dust, smoke and clouds, so also the pure Self in contact with the qualities of maya is (i.e. appears to be) soiled by them. Just as metal in contact with fire acquires the quality of fire (namely heat), so also the senses, etc. in contact with the Self acquire the quality of the Self. The Self, is realised in the body only with effort, like sugar from the sugarcane, oil from sesame seeds, fire from wood, butter from a cow and iron from stones (i.e. ore). Awareness is Brahman; the world is Brahman; the various elements are Brahman; I am Brahman; my enemy is Brahman; my friends and relatives are Brahman. There is only consciousness here; this universe is nothing but consciousness; you are consciousness; I am consciousness; the worlds are consciousness - that is the conclusion. Nirvana If one meditates on that state which comes at the end of the waking state and the beginning of sleep he will directly experience undecaying bliss. That consciousness which is the witness of the rise and fall of all beings, know that to be the immortal state of supreme bliss. That which is immutable, auspicious and tranquil, that in which this world exists, that which manifests itself as the mutable and immutable objects - that is the sole consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Shri Prashanth Nairji, Namaskar! As per part I of your post " Agamas which shaped Bharat " , this is what the author has said, " In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be dated after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was mentioned in these texts. " Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well! As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. go through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging doubts regarding " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis modern sciences and also " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of course, " Bhagya " versus " purushartha " etc. etc. Regards, AKK , " prashanthnair999 " <prashanthnair999 wrote: > > > Excerpts from > Yoga Vasishtha Sara > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha) > An English Translation from the > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha Ramayana as > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 dear respected pandit kaul ji namaskar I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for dictionaries . so pls dont try to sell coals to New castle . I hav no doubts but it is u ppl who r not ready to accept hard facts and trying to prolong discussion .if Mandana Mishra Know this technics He cud hav easily make the gr8 sankaracharya a mad person in arguemnts ( but he accepted defeat ) and he would hav committed scicide Yavanahi mlecha means yavanas are mlecha ppl ,the old indus saidhava sanskriti ppl ( who also known as meluha ppl ) ,it is written by No one but gr8 rishi garga Kulaguru of yadavakula ,even during the time of Mahabharatha vidura and yudhishtira was talking to one mlecha shilpi who made wax house in their dailect .this saidhava sanskriti influenced more areas than vedic and they r propounders of many theorys in astrology and finaly when both merged like u kaul tantric ppl accepted vedic hindusim ( that is How post YVMR came ).Hindu vedic astrology came into todays shape The saidhava ppl main deity was pashupati yogeshwara tantric shiva why no hindus doing much worship llike vedas mentioned where as all doing with agamic tradition s . i dont want to prolong arguemnts ,if u think in this line u can understand it That is why mayan inca civilisation has depicting Indian elephant in their all arcitechture .can u show me one indian elephant i n american continent in hisotrical period ) it is the only civilisation use technology and knowledge for well being of all ppl by making cities than making one pyramid by using slaves or one big wall like china or some stone big structure .think the cultural diffrnce and ideology they followed . Only civilisation with blf in continuity of birth and atma and universal concept can propound this astro theorys .U will not deny atleast they knows architecture and it dont resembles with any body's .so what knowldge might hav possess by this saivagama PPL . by even carbon dating which has error for 2500 yrs it is confirmed saraswathi river mentioned in vedas dried in BC 1900 ( if u blv only euro xian centric theories ) and sage garga was mentioning that ppl and same is in Maha bharatha ,think how many 10s of 1000 yrs might hav taken this civilisation to formed in full extent b4 it declined thinking the slow speed of human's possess 10s of 1000 yrs back dont u know all hindu architecture deals with mayamata even used in middle age temples means build 1000s of yrs b4 ( also ask any scientist why radio activity is higher in indus valley ?? what it means ) do u blv rishi agastaya tamil sidha was mentioning rasies .But all this is in secret traditions and not gone to brahmins and brahmnisations of later caste dvlpmnts .So it was not interpolated like vedas ,but givn to only to good sisyas . so u r talking abt wat some one written where as i am talking what is exprnced that is diffrnce Mesha means aja ( Think why it has given first name of rasies ),if u know secret of vedas pls expand ,use rest of ur life and i am not allowed to disclose further publicly .Also the scintificaly enlightened one (shri sanat ji )asked why nakshatras has religious sysmbols and rasi has not ,No it is utter misunderstanding ,think Bharani ( means jar ) so it was a collecttion of stars and area which was looking like a jar , where religion comes Here ????.same also aplicable to rasies but lot of other secrets also in names given ,also greece were occupplied by old indian Kshatriyas . think Names like alexander is Al sikander ,or skander or skanda ,lord muruga and karthikeyas Name ,pythogores is peetha gurus (yellow colored dressed Monks ) .herculese is harikulesa even the word therapy came frm thera putha indians some sects dont blv public printing and publishing than passing down to sisyas .even what ever come out is just part of traditions when some one decided to reveal it ,u ppl r dating frm there .kerala cowri kriya is not yet available in any books ,it replace even chinese calculater abacus or what ever it is ,they use this kriya to calcualte any planetary movements and position even any numbr of yr back or forward (also can calculate any number faster than computer s even today by exprnced persons ) .so if i publish one book does it mean that it is strted frm that day ,even i may use aries as sign names because now all r english educated and i am writing a english book .so is it means that some latin or european ppl find rasies ?? Thnk if ur not under some order or sold ur soul . i dnt care one person accept me or not ,for me it dont make any diffrnce . All this are indian ppl and systems and there is no big diffrnce except the diffrnce between hinduism /jainism /budhism or sikhism where as all of them r hindus ( means saindhava ppl also the word hindu is sindhu too ) regrds Prashanth Nair , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> As per part I of your post "Agamas which shaped Bharat", this is what > the author has said, > "In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple> based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be dated > after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was > mentioned in these texts."> > Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means > that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well!> As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. go > through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging > doubts regarding "Vedic astrology" vis-a-vis modern sciences and > also "Vedic astrology" vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of > course, "Bhagya" versus "purushartha" etc. etc.> Regards,> AKK> > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > Excerpts from> > Yoga Vasishtha Sara> > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha)> > An English Translation from the> > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition> > > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha Ramayana > as> > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets,> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Shri Prashanth Nairji, Namaskar! <I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for dictionaries .> The fact of the matter is that you have not been able to disprove even a single point raised by me. All you are trying to do is deflecting the issues by raising extraneous points! Let me give you some examples: 1. When asked to prove the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas, your counter argument is that the Vedas are not text books of astroomy, least of all astrology! But still you want to call predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology! 2. When asked to quote any shloka from any indigenous astronomical work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha that listed Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, your counter argument is that we have lost much of the material and hence such works are not available---but still you want to call predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " on the strength of that material which has been lost! 3. When asked to quote even a single instance where our shastras have advised us to consult soothsayers, there also your counter argument is that we have lost quite a few shastras, and hence we cannot say that the shastras have not advised us to consult soothsaers! 3. When confronted with the statements of Bhishma Pitamaha, Gautama the Budha, Kautilya etc. that they have condemned " nakshara-soochis " in no uncertain terms as the real Vedic ethos is against bhagya-vada, your counter-argument is that anyone saying so is getting funds from others to " destory " predictive gimmicks, which you call " Vedic astrology " ! 4. When asked as to how our ancestors could make correct predictions from the horoscopes prepared from such works as are having funamentally wrong algorithms like the Surya Sidhanta, the Arya Bhati, Brahma Sphuta Sihanta or Grahalaghava etc., your counter- arguments are just posting snippets from here and there that " astrology is a science of sciences " ---as if those " magic wands " will solve the problems for you! 5. When asked whether you had gone through the Vedas yourself since you are arguing so voceferously in favour of a non-existent " Vedic astrology " your counter argument is that since there is the word " Aja " in the Vedas, that means there are all the twelve viz. Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas! Your supplementary argument is that you do not want to read any shastras but go by what your " Guru " has told you--and that he has told you that you must not " divulge Vedic secrets " . 5. When confronted with proofs that Varahamihira's nomenclature of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis was a derivative of Grecho-Chaldean astrology, your counter argument is that that is old wine in new bottles, without, however, producing any new wine yourself! 6. When asked to prove that Patri-Melapak has been referred to in any shastra, you say that someone else has already replied that point, but you do not want to name any such work yourself as has advised us to marry only after matching the horoscopes! Why do you want always to fire guns from others' shoulders! Why not do some research yourself and prove us wrong who claim that patri-melapak is a fraud perpetuated by jyotishis and not by the Vedic seers! 7. You have said Prashna Tantra has advised us to marry only after Patri-Melapak! You have said so only because somebody else has said so, and that somebody is perhaps no longer a member of this forum, as otherwise, his/her rabble rousing would not have ceased that abruptly! For your kind information, you may rest assured that there is no patri-melapak malady in Prashna-Tantra either. 8. When asked as to whether Cheiro also was a " Vedic astrologer " according to you, since you are trying to defend his activities at all costs, you are making some incoherent statements like the relationship of Sita to Shri Ram! 9. When asked the inconvenient question as to how " Vedic astrology " could be a science since predictions in the past could never be correct based as they were on fundamentally wrong arguments, all you are doing is making fantastic statements like " All scientists believe in astrology " . But you have no reply to the question as to when the Mesha etc. Rashis---twelve equal divisions of the zodiac---are non- existent even astronomically, how can any predictive gimmick be scientific! 10. On the one hand you say that Agamas have perserved the knowledge of the Vedas, but when confronted with unpleasant facts that even Agamas are not being followed for celebrating festivals on correct days because all the Puranas, Tantras etc. talk of so called Sayana Rashichakra, you adopt a defiant attitude there also, WHICH PROVES, BEYOND ALL THE REASONABLE DOUBTS, THAT IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE HELL BENT ON DESTROYING THE HINDU DHARMA BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DEFEND NON-EXISTENT VEDIC ASTROLOGY! Honestly, I have no good wishes for any such activities of any one, who is actually only a namesake Hindu. Dhanyavad. A K Kaul , " prashanthnair999 " <prashanthnair999 wrote: > > > > > dear respected pandit kaul ji > > namaskar > > I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > dictionaries . > > so pls dont try to sell coals to New castle . > > I hav no doubts but it is u ppl who r not ready to accept hard facts and > trying to prolong discussion .if Mandana Mishra Know this technics He > cud hav easily make the gr8 sankaracharya a mad person in arguemnts ( > but he accepted defeat ) and he would hav committed scicide > > Yavanahi mlecha means yavanas are mlecha ppl ,the old indus saidhava > sanskriti ppl ( who also known as meluha ppl ) ,it is written by No one > but gr8 rishi garga Kulaguru of yadavakula ,even during the time of > Mahabharatha vidura and yudhishtira was talking to one mlecha shilpi who > made wax house in their dailect .this saidhava sanskriti influenced more > areas than vedic and they r propounders of many theorys in astrology and > finaly when both merged like u kaul tantric ppl accepted vedic hindusim > ( that is How post YVMR came ).Hindu vedic astrology came into todays > shape > > The saidhava ppl main deity was pashupati yogeshwara tantric shiva > > why no hindus doing much worship llike vedas mentioned where as all > doing with agamic tradition s . > > i dont want to prolong arguemnts ,if u think in this line u can > understand it > > That is why mayan inca civilisation has depicting Indian elephant in > their all arcitechture .can u show me one indian elephant i n american > continent in hisotrical period ) > > it is the only civilisation use technology and knowledge for well being > of all ppl by making cities than making one pyramid by using slaves or > one big wall like china or some stone big structure .think the cultural > diffrnce and ideology they followed . > > Only civilisation with blf in continuity of birth and atma and universal > concept can propound this astro theorys .U will not deny atleast they > knows architecture and it dont resembles with any body's .so what > knowldge might hav possess by this saivagama PPL . > > by even carbon dating which has error for 2500 yrs it is confirmed > saraswathi river mentioned in vedas dried in BC 1900 ( if u blv only > euro xian centric theories ) and sage garga was mentioning that ppl and > same is in Maha bharatha ,think how many 10s of 1000 yrs might hav taken > this civilisation to formed in full extent b4 it declined thinking the > slow speed of human's possess 10s of 1000 yrs back > > dont u know all hindu architecture deals with mayamata even used in > middle age temples means build 1000s of yrs b4 ( also ask any scientist > why radio activity is higher in indus valley ?? what it means ) > > do u blv rishi agastaya tamil sidha was mentioning rasies .But all this > is in secret traditions and not gone to brahmins and brahmnisations of > later caste dvlpmnts .So it was not interpolated like vedas ,but givn to > only to good sisyas . > > > > so u r talking abt wat some one written where as i am talking what is > exprnced > > > > that is diffrnce > > Mesha means aja ( Think why it has given first name of rasies ),if u > know secret of vedas pls expand ,use rest of ur life and i am not > allowed to disclose further publicly .Also the scintificaly enlightened > one (shri sanat ji )asked why nakshatras has religious sysmbols and rasi > has not ,No it is utter misunderstanding ,think Bharani ( means jar ) so > it was a collecttion of stars and area which was looking like a jar , > where religion comes Here ????.same also aplicable to rasies but lot of > other secrets also in names given ,also greece were occupplied by old > indian Kshatriyas . > > think Names like alexander is Al sikander ,or skander or skanda ,lord > muruga and karthikeyas Name ,pythogores is peetha gurus (yellow colored > dressed Monks ) .herculese is harikulesa even the word therapy came frm > thera putha > > indians some sects dont blv public printing and publishing than passing > down to sisyas .even what ever come out is just part of traditions when > some one decided to reveal it ,u ppl r dating frm there .kerala cowri > kriya is not yet available in any books ,it replace even chinese > calculater abacus or what ever it is ,they use this kriya to calcualte > any planetary movements and position even any numbr of yr back or > forward (also can calculate any number faster than computer s even today > by exprnced persons ) .so if i publish one book does it mean that it is > strted frm that day ,even i may use aries as sign names because now all > r english educated and i am writing a english book .so is it means that > some latin or european ppl find rasies ?? > > > > Thnk if ur not under some order or sold ur soul . > > i dnt care one person accept me or not ,for me it dont make any diffrnce > . > > All this are indian ppl and systems and there is no big diffrnce except > the diffrnce between hinduism /jainism /budhism or sikhism where as all > of them r hindus ( means saindhava ppl also the word hindu is sindhu too > ) > > > > regrds Prashanth Nair , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > Namaskar! > > As per part I of your post " Agamas which shaped Bharat " , this is what > > the author has said, > > " In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple > > based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be dated > > after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was > > mentioned in these texts. " > > > > Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means > > that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well! > > As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. go > > through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging > > doubts regarding " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis modern sciences and > > also " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of > > course, " Bhagya " versus " purushartha " etc. etc. > > Regards, > > AKK > > > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > prashanthnair999@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Excerpts from > > > Yoga Vasishtha Sara > > > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha) > > > An English Translation from the > > > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition > > > > > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha Ramayana > > as > > > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets, > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 respected kaul ji namskar my christian blf also telling me same ,all astrological thing is gimmiks ,vedas if some one quotes we shud say it is interpolated if they cant type all vedas in one mail then that is the oportunity we r waiting for ( we know tht no one in earht can do it ) ,so if he cant we can bash vedic astrology as predictiv gimmiks what is the use of all this things so long as i am getting enough money to twist and trash all such things called predictiv astrology called vedic astrology .why hindus dont understand everything we got frm jews .even the concept of god other wise they got monkey and elephants as gods .why they need to use all this astrology or what ever it is . Now i came out with a calender to celebrate valentilne day and xmas why cant they follow it ?? as regrds to traditional fesivals this hindu fools are celebrating all myths ,according our chritian genology world itself strted in BC 4000 then what the hell they says abt rishies ,who r them ??they knows earht is flat that also frm Bible which we corrected and amended bible 500000 times .so how can we approve they hav infallibility now i the reason i tell some lies i said some one fall in gutter like me and died ( i purpose fully hide the name because spreading roumers and confusions and doubts is our aim ) why that man called prashanth nair who is not even 30 by age bring out all copy of proofs and said i am wrong means he thinks its is vedic astrologer ,serious crime ,he come to india to learn bible ,why dont he under stand it ,tho i know palmistry another predictiv gimmiks ,why cant he go to greek or chaldean or iseiel even if he come to india why he shud write the truth .see now he made my missionary work an obstacle ,so i am spreading that roumour because those fellows has good income by virtue of education or wat ever it is where as i dont hav a thing ,i strted a panchanga it failed ,i made duplicate calnder committi letter heads and spread that i am chairman and other are my subordinates still nothing happend he said matching is in prashna maarga but i twisted it as if it is in prashan tantra .see how i prolong discussions and never agree i failed tho i failed 1000 times we r doing academic discussion so all possibilities of any subjuct we shud agree ,but how i can agree it as he shud produce it and catch my ears and proove it in frnt of me ,still i will not agree i will say wine and bottle only I dont understand vedic astrology so i bash with every one <indira gandhies chart i tried make in some software and see it ,i cud not understand it first i go and got converted and now see i am getting good income and then ample of time .My boss wants me to keep on telling lies ,and confuse ppl ,no one listens me i dont care ,let ppl confuse ,i will ask suryasidhantha with every one and i will say it is wrong ,but never will see reality even if is true i will say wrong data and correct predictions ,because why hindus make it first of all why cant they wait till galielio or copernickus strt finding it after learning frm east .( b4 i spread it is greek origin now i got some 12 rasi names only other than that i dont hav any thing that also some words ,so i twists it as if greek or roaman or catholic or vatican origin ) plastic surgery was there in BC 2600 but i will not agree as without magnifying glss how it is possible ?/ even eye operation is done by charaka or susrutha like fraud rishies but i will not agree how and why hindus shud possess all this knowledge ,even if some one says as a proof of knowledge and hindus are not fools we will ask is plastic surgery is astrology .if some one bring a proof then we will say show me the date of publication if it s BC 500 so we can argue alexander attacked india to teach astrology and vedas and all rishies were greeko roman catholics . let some one says ayurveda this veda that veda ,why they use veda --to show antiquity and cheat public and innocent hindus will not convert thinking all this is in veda s so i will ask all chapter frm ayurveda in vedas who ever says ayurveda is veda ,same is with stapatya veda or any science they says ,show me in vedas even if they says it is in books to me , as i put all money in investmnts and earning good money ,so let them go and buy it and teach me ,so that i can again twist it finding new points ,if i cannot get points i wait for 10 days then will post it ,also i will post in all places where he cannot answer too . as i wanted to win at any cost wiki says suryasidhantha is good and correct so is all learned ppl says ,but i cannot agree it ,first of this hindus dont hav even lankoti how they can make such works unless greek and chaldean or jewish ppl help in printing and publishing . so i will never accept my defeat even if all grp says so .wheter it is in secret traditions or not .so why cant he disclose it even if he acuire by hard work .i searhced vedas and find one word aja more than that i dont understand ,so whose mistake ??it is his mistake .it is not my duty to search it ,my duty is open a forum or 2 and ask them to proove it . even if they proove i will not agree .My duty is to twist ,as i dont blv in decent dsicsussion if some one calls names i will remind them my age ,so they will b humble as stupid indians who ever come here we make them run ,did we search those books they mentioned ?/let them go to hell or let them type all books in mails .why i shud search it to proov he or she is correct so they will vanish automaticaly as they hav other work to do . why cant they keep on typing rest of their life tho givs 64K space for one mail ,if they write 1000 mails we ask them where u prooved it as by the time many of the material is back mails and that i was hibernating conveneintly to avoid arguemnts so he will either go to first mail or stop there as he cannot go back and re type or copy it ,let any evidence b there in this grp ,but why cant he go and search and re type ,even cut and paste we will not allow .after all we will not even accept any proof, what proof they can giv can he produce original rishi ,still we carbn date him and limit within adam birth ,because without adam how any stupid rishi can b born ?? so i challenge him to proove again i quoted some names like Budha or vivekanda tho out of context those poor souls cant come and defend it themslfs we r using them as it is convenent ,other wise did we follow them we hav amny other serious things to do . so i am challenging him to proov again that 30 yrs old fraud i will again tell lies and twist let him proov it i dont care any one even i dont hav shame too so i am waiting for him regrds calnder for valentines day inventer , "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> <I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav> gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to> swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for> dictionaries .> > The fact of the matter is that you have not been able to disprove > even a single point raised by me. All you are trying to do is > deflecting the issues by raising extraneous points!> > Let me give you some examples:> 1. When asked to prove the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in > the Vedas, your counter argument is that the Vedas are not text books > of astroomy, least of all astrology! But still you want to call > predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology!> 2. When asked to quote any shloka from any indigenous astronomical > work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha that listed > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, your counter argument is that we have lost > much of the material and hence such works are not available---but > still you want to call predictive gimmicks as "Vedic astrology" on > the strength of that material which has been lost! > 3. When asked to quote even a single instance where our shastras have > advised us to consult soothsayers, there also your counter argument > is that we have lost quite a few shastras, and hence we cannot say > that the shastras have not advised us to consult soothsaers!> > 3. When confronted with the statements of Bhishma Pitamaha, Gautama > the Budha, Kautilya etc. that they have condemned "nakshara-soochis" > in no uncertain terms as the real Vedic ethos is against bhagya-vada, > your counter-argument is that anyone saying so is getting funds from > others to "destory" predictive gimmicks, which you call "Vedic > astrology"!> 4. When asked as to how our ancestors could make correct predictions > from the horoscopes prepared from such works as are having > funamentally wrong algorithms like the Surya Sidhanta, the Arya > Bhati, Brahma Sphuta Sihanta or Grahalaghava etc., your counter-> arguments are just posting snippets from here and there > that "astrology is a science of sciences"---as if those "magic wands" > will solve the problems for you!> 5. When asked whether you had gone through the Vedas yourself since > you are arguing so voceferously in favour of a non-existent "Vedic > astrology" your counter argument is that since there is the > word "Aja" in the Vedas, that means there are all the twelve viz. > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas! Your supplementary argument > is that you do not want to read any shastras but go by what > your "Guru" has told you--and that he has told you that you must > not "divulge Vedic secrets".> > 5. When confronted with proofs that Varahamihira's nomenclature of > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis was a derivative of Grecho-Chaldean > astrology, your counter argument is that that is old wine in new > bottles, without, however, producing any new wine yourself!> > 6. When asked to prove that Patri-Melapak has been referred to in any > shastra, you say that someone else has already replied that point, > but you do not want to name any such work yourself as has advised us > to marry only after matching the horoscopes! Why do you want always > to fire guns from others' shoulders! Why not do some research > yourself and prove us wrong who claim that patri-melapak is a fraud > perpetuated by jyotishis and not by the Vedic seers!> > 7. You have said Prashna Tantra has advised us to marry only after > Patri-Melapak! You have said so only because somebody else has said > so, and that somebody is perhaps no longer a member of this forum, as > otherwise, his/her rabble rousing would not have ceased that abruptly!> For your kind information, you may rest assured that there is no > patri-melapak malady in Prashna-Tantra either.> > 8. When asked as to whether Cheiro also was a "Vedic astrologer" > according to you, since you are trying to defend his activities at > all costs, you are making some incoherent statements like the > relationship of Sita to Shri Ram!> > > 9. When asked the inconvenient question as to how "Vedic astrology" > could be a science since predictions in the past could never be > correct based as they were on fundamentally wrong arguments, all you > are doing is making fantastic statements like "All scientists believe > in astrology". But you have no reply to the question as to when the > Mesha etc. Rashis---twelve equal divisions of the zodiac---are non-> existent even astronomically, how can any predictive gimmick be > scientific!> > 10. On the one hand you say that Agamas have perserved the knowledge > of the Vedas, but when confronted with unpleasant facts that even > Agamas are not being followed for celebrating festivals on correct > days because all the Puranas, Tantras etc. talk of so called Sayana > Rashichakra, you adopt a defiant attitude there also, WHICH PROVES, > BEYOND ALL THE REASONABLE DOUBTS, THAT IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE > HELL BENT ON DESTROYING THE HINDU DHARMA BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DEFEND > NON-EXISTENT VEDIC ASTROLOGY! > Honestly, I have no good wishes for any such activities of any one, > who is actually only a namesake Hindu.> Dhanyavad.> A K Kaul> > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > dear respected pandit kaul ji> > > > namaskar> > > > I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as > i hav> > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to> > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for> > dictionaries .> > > > so pls dont try to sell coals to New castle .> > > > I hav no doubts but it is u ppl who r not ready to accept hard > facts and> > trying to prolong discussion .if Mandana Mishra Know this technics > He> > cud hav easily make the gr8 sankaracharya a mad person in arguemnts > (> > but he accepted defeat ) and he would hav committed scicide> > > > Yavanahi mlecha means yavanas are mlecha ppl ,the old indus > saidhava> > sanskriti ppl ( who also known as meluha ppl ) ,it is written by No > one> > but gr8 rishi garga Kulaguru of yadavakula ,even during the time of> > Mahabharatha vidura and yudhishtira was talking to one mlecha > shilpi who> > made wax house in their dailect .this saidhava sanskriti influenced > more> > areas than vedic and they r propounders of many theorys in > astrology and> > finaly when both merged like u kaul tantric ppl accepted vedic > hindusim> > ( that is How post YVMR came ).Hindu vedic astrology came into > todays> > shape> > > > The saidhava ppl main deity was pashupati yogeshwara tantric shiva> > > > why no hindus doing much worship llike vedas mentioned where as all> > doing with agamic tradition s .> > > > i dont want to prolong arguemnts ,if u think in this line u can> > understand it> > > > That is why mayan inca civilisation has depicting Indian elephant in> > their all arcitechture .can u show me one indian elephant i n > american> > continent in hisotrical period )> > > > it is the only civilisation use technology and knowledge for well > being> > of all ppl by making cities than making one pyramid by using slaves > or> > one big wall like china or some stone big structure .think the > cultural> > diffrnce and ideology they followed .> > > > Only civilisation with blf in continuity of birth and atma and > universal> > concept can propound this astro theorys .U will not deny atleast > they> > knows architecture and it dont resembles with any body's .so what> > knowldge might hav possess by this saivagama PPL .> > > > by even carbon dating which has error for 2500 yrs it is confirmed> > saraswathi river mentioned in vedas dried in BC 1900 ( if u blv only> > euro xian centric theories ) and sage garga was mentioning that ppl > and> > same is in Maha bharatha ,think how many 10s of 1000 yrs might hav > taken> > this civilisation to formed in full extent b4 it declined thinking > the> > slow speed of human's possess 10s of 1000 yrs back> > > > dont u know all hindu architecture deals with mayamata even used in> > middle age temples means build 1000s of yrs b4 ( also ask any > scientist> > why radio activity is higher in indus valley ?? what it means )> > > > do u blv rishi agastaya tamil sidha was mentioning rasies .But all > this> > is in secret traditions and not gone to brahmins and brahmnisations > of> > later caste dvlpmnts .So it was not interpolated like vedas ,but > givn to> > only to good sisyas .> > > > > > > > so u r talking abt wat some one written where as i am talking what > is> > exprnced> > > > > > > > that is diffrnce> > > > Mesha means aja ( Think why it has given first name of rasies ),if u> > know secret of vedas pls expand ,use rest of ur life and i am not> > allowed to disclose further publicly .Also the scintificaly > enlightened> > one (shri sanat ji )asked why nakshatras has religious sysmbols and > rasi> > has not ,No it is utter misunderstanding ,think Bharani ( means > jar ) so> > it was a collecttion of stars and area which was looking like a > jar ,> > where religion comes Here ????.same also aplicable to rasies but > lot of> > other secrets also in names given ,also greece were occupplied by > old> > indian Kshatriyas .> > > > think Names like alexander is Al sikander ,or skander or > skanda ,lord> > muruga and karthikeyas Name ,pythogores is peetha gurus (yellow > colored> > dressed Monks ) .herculese is harikulesa even the word therapy came > frm> > thera putha> > > > indians some sects dont blv public printing and publishing than > passing> > down to sisyas .even what ever come out is just part of traditions > when> > some one decided to reveal it ,u ppl r dating frm there .kerala > cowri> > kriya is not yet available in any books ,it replace even chinese> > calculater abacus or what ever it is ,they use this kriya to > calcualte> > any planetary movements and position even any numbr of yr back or> > forward (also can calculate any number faster than computer s even > today> > by exprnced persons ) .so if i publish one book does it mean that > it is> > strted frm that day ,even i may use aries as sign names because now > all> > r english educated and i am writing a english book .so is it means > that> > some latin or european ppl find rasies ??> > > > > > > > Thnk if ur not under some order or sold ur soul .> > > > i dnt care one person accept me or not ,for me it dont make any > diffrnce> > .> > > > All this are indian ppl and systems and there is no big diffrnce > except> > the diffrnce between hinduism /jainism /budhism or sikhism where as > all> > of them r hindus ( means saindhava ppl also the word hindu is > sindhu too> > )> > > > > > > > regrds Prashanth Nair> > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > Shri Prashanth Nairji,> > > Namaskar!> > > As per part I of your post "Agamas which shaped Bharat", this is > what> > > the author has said,> > > "In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple> > > based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be > dated> > > after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was> > > mentioned in these texts."> > >> > > Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means> > > that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well!> > > As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. > go> > > through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging> > > doubts regarding "Vedic astrology" vis-a-vis modern sciences and> > > also "Vedic astrology" vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of> > > course, "Bhagya" versus "purushartha" etc. etc.> > > Regards,> > > AKK> > >> > >> > > , "prashanthnair999"> > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Excerpts from> > > > Yoga Vasishtha Sara> > > > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha)> > > > An English Translation from the> > > > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition> > > >> > > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha > Ramayana> > > as> > > > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets,> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 HinduCalendar , " Pathmarajah Nagalingam " <beastmy wrote: Dear Prashanth Nair, Vannakam. As explained in the Mb Aja means The Unborn. It is a name of Siva. All sorts of things have been attributed to Rishi Agastya. People use his name to gain credibility. He was just one of the Agamic and Vedic seers/author. I have studied some of the main agamas and it does not deal with rashis. It mentions nakshatras, sun, moon and eclipses only. HinduCalendar/message/3277 The name Skanda has nothing to do with Sikander or Alexander. Skanda has been mentioned in the Yajur Veda as 'thou art Brahman'. In other places in the Rig he has been identified as Agni. Here is from the Ajita Agama: (Lord Siva says:) 50.2-5 Skanda is born from my body. He has my energy, my valor. He was created by me formerly as son of Uma, good for the world. He is also born of fire. Therefore the fire origin is told of him. So that, among the best of the gods, he does not have birth from a womb. In the course of time he became a god with a manifest body, shining like the blazing fire at the end of the world. 50.6-8 Therefore he is called Born of fire, Born of reed, Skanda, Kumara, Senani, Subrahmanya, Guru. He is called by all these and other numerous names. Because he will cause jumping (skand) out of all sins, he is Skanda. Because he will destroy (maar) evils (ku) he is well known as Kumara. Because he protects the army of gods he has the quality of army-leader (Senani). (Su-Brahma-nya means 'of the great brahman'.) The vedas and agamas were written/passed down orally way, way before Alexander. Another misconception I would like to clear is the dating of vedas and agamas. The agamas and vedas were written at about the same time as the seers/authors were the same rishis. One dealt solely with hymns to the gods, and the other dealt with all four organs, namely chariya or ethics, kriya or home and temple worship, yoga or meditation, as well as indepth coverage of jnana or philosophy. A single agama like the Ajita contains more on philosophy than all the upanishads put together. There are no hymns in the agamas. Hence the vedas complements the agamas and there is no overlapping. For the same reason the vedas do not mention temple worship and murthis (icons). There is no need for overlapping. However it is admitted that the agamas which were transmitted down orally, were only written down much later than the vedas, and used a more contemporary sanskrit rather than the sanskrit of the Rig Veda. Pathma HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > jyotirved@ wrote: > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > Namaskar! > <I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > dictionaries .> > The fact of the matter is that you have not been able to disprove > even a single point raised by me. All you are trying to do is > deflecting the issues by raising extraneous points! > > Let me give you some examples: > 1. When asked to prove the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in > the Vedas, your counter argument is that the Vedas are not text books > of astroomy, least of all astrology! But still you want to call > predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology! > 2. When asked to quote any shloka from any indigenous astronomical > work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha that listed > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, your counter argument is that we have lost > much of the material and hence such works are not available---but > still you want to call predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " on > the strength of that material which has been lost! > 3. When asked to quote even a single instance where our shastras have > advised us to consult soothsayers, there also your counter argument > is that we have lost quite a few shastras, and hence we cannot say > that the shastras have not advised us to consult soothsaers! > > 3. When confronted with the statements of Bhishma Pitamaha, Gautama > the Budha, Kautilya etc. that they have condemned " nakshara-soochis " > in no uncertain terms as the real Vedic ethos is against bhagya- vada, > your counter-argument is that anyone saying so is getting funds from > others to " destory " predictive gimmicks, which you call " Vedic > astrology " ! > 4. When asked as to how our ancestors could make correct predictions > from the horoscopes prepared from such works as are having > funamentally wrong algorithms like the Surya Sidhanta, the Arya > Bhati, Brahma Sphuta Sihanta or Grahalaghava etc., your counter- > arguments are just posting snippets from here and there > that " astrology is a science of sciences " ---as if those " magic wands " > will solve the problems for you! > 5. When asked whether you had gone through the Vedas yourself since > you are arguing so voceferously in favour of a non-existent " Vedic > astrology " your counter argument is that since there is the > word " Aja " in the Vedas, that means there are all the twelve viz. > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas! Your supplementary argument > is that you do not want to read any shastras but go by what > your " Guru " has told you--and that he has told you that you must > not " divulge Vedic secrets " . > > 5. When confronted with proofs that Varahamihira's nomenclature of > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis was a derivative of Grecho-Chaldean > astrology, your counter argument is that that is old wine in new > bottles, without, however, producing any new wine yourself! > > 6. When asked to prove that Patri-Melapak has been referred to in any > shastra, you say that someone else has already replied that point, > but you do not want to name any such work yourself as has advised us > to marry only after matching the horoscopes! Why do you want always > to fire guns from others' shoulders! Why not do some research > yourself and prove us wrong who claim that patri-melapak is a fraud > perpetuated by jyotishis and not by the Vedic seers! > > 7. You have said Prashna Tantra has advised us to marry only after > Patri-Melapak! You have said so only because somebody else has said > so, and that somebody is perhaps no longer a member of this forum, as > otherwise, his/her rabble rousing would not have ceased that abruptly! > For your kind information, you may rest assured that there is no > patri-melapak malady in Prashna-Tantra either. > > 8. When asked as to whether Cheiro also was a " Vedic astrologer " > according to you, since you are trying to defend his activities at > all costs, you are making some incoherent statements like the > relationship of Sita to Shri Ram! > > > 9. When asked the inconvenient question as to how " Vedic astrology " > could be a science since predictions in the past could never be > correct based as they were on fundamentally wrong arguments, all you > are doing is making fantastic statements like " All scientists believe > in astrology " . But you have no reply to the question as to when the > Mesha etc. Rashis---twelve equal divisions of the zodiac---are non- > existent even astronomically, how can any predictive gimmick be > scientific! > > 10. On the one hand you say that Agamas have perserved the knowledge > of the Vedas, but when confronted with unpleasant facts that even > Agamas are not being followed for celebrating festivals on correct > days because all the Puranas, Tantras etc. talk of so called Sayana > Rashichakra, you adopt a defiant attitude there also, WHICH PROVES, > BEYOND ALL THE REASONABLE DOUBTS, THAT IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE > HELL BENT ON DESTROYING THE HINDU DHARMA BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DEFEND > NON-EXISTENT VEDIC ASTROLOGY! > Honestly, I have no good wishes for any such activities of any one, > who is actually only a namesake Hindu. > Dhanyavad. > A K Kaul > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > <prashanthnair999@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear respected pandit kaul ji > > > > namaskar > > > > I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as > i hav > > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > > dictionaries . > > > > so pls dont try to sell coals to New castle . > > > > I hav no doubts but it is u ppl who r not ready to accept hard > facts and > > trying to prolong discussion .if Mandana Mishra Know this technics > He > > cud hav easily make the gr8 sankaracharya a mad person in arguemnts > ( > > but he accepted defeat ) and he would hav committed scicide > > > > Yavanahi mlecha means yavanas are mlecha ppl ,the old indus > saidhava > > sanskriti ppl ( who also known as meluha ppl ) ,it is written by No > one > > but gr8 rishi garga Kulaguru of yadavakula ,even during the time of > > Mahabharatha vidura and yudhishtira was talking to one mlecha > shilpi who > > made wax house in their dailect .this saidhava sanskriti influenced > more > > areas than vedic and they r propounders of many theorys in > astrology and > > finaly when both merged like u kaul tantric ppl accepted vedic > hindusim > > ( that is How post YVMR came ).Hindu vedic astrology came into > todays > > shape > > > > The saidhava ppl main deity was pashupati yogeshwara tantric shiva > > > > why no hindus doing much worship llike vedas mentioned where as all > > doing with agamic tradition s . > > > > i dont want to prolong arguemnts ,if u think in this line u can > > understand it > > > > That is why mayan inca civilisation has depicting Indian elephant in > > their all arcitechture .can u show me one indian elephant i n > american > > continent in hisotrical period ) > > > > it is the only civilisation use technology and knowledge for well > being > > of all ppl by making cities than making one pyramid by using slaves > or > > one big wall like china or some stone big structure .think the > cultural > > diffrnce and ideology they followed . > > > > Only civilisation with blf in continuity of birth and atma and > universal > > concept can propound this astro theorys .U will not deny atleast > they > > knows architecture and it dont resembles with any body's .so what > > knowldge might hav possess by this saivagama PPL . > > > > by even carbon dating which has error for 2500 yrs it is confirmed > > saraswathi river mentioned in vedas dried in BC 1900 ( if u blv only > > euro xian centric theories ) and sage garga was mentioning that ppl > and > > same is in Maha bharatha ,think how many 10s of 1000 yrs might hav > taken > > this civilisation to formed in full extent b4 it declined thinking > the > > slow speed of human's possess 10s of 1000 yrs back > > > > dont u know all hindu architecture deals with mayamata even used in > > middle age temples means build 1000s of yrs b4 ( also ask any > scientist > > why radio activity is higher in indus valley ?? what it means ) > > > > do u blv rishi agastaya tamil sidha was mentioning rasies .But all > this > > is in secret traditions and not gone to brahmins and brahmnisations > of > > later caste dvlpmnts .So it was not interpolated like vedas ,but > givn to > > only to good sisyas . > > > > > > > > so u r talking abt wat some one written where as i am talking what > is > > exprnced > > > > > > > > that is diffrnce > > > > Mesha means aja ( Think why it has given first name of rasies ),if u > > know secret of vedas pls expand ,use rest of ur life and i am not > > allowed to disclose further publicly .Also the scintificaly > enlightened > > one (shri sanat ji )asked why nakshatras has religious sysmbols and > rasi > > has not ,No it is utter misunderstanding ,think Bharani ( means > jar ) so > > it was a collecttion of stars and area which was looking like a > jar , > > where religion comes Here ????.same also aplicable to rasies but > lot of > > other secrets also in names given ,also greece were occupplied by > old > > indian Kshatriyas . > > > > think Names like alexander is Al sikander ,or skander or > skanda ,lord > > muruga and karthikeyas Name ,pythogores is peetha gurus (yellow > colored > > dressed Monks ) .herculese is harikulesa even the word therapy came > frm > > thera putha > > > > indians some sects dont blv public printing and publishing than > passing > > down to sisyas .even what ever come out is just part of traditions > when > > some one decided to reveal it ,u ppl r dating frm there .kerala > cowri > > kriya is not yet available in any books ,it replace even chinese > > calculater abacus or what ever it is ,they use this kriya to > calcualte > > any planetary movements and position even any numbr of yr back or > > forward (also can calculate any number faster than computer s even > today > > by exprnced persons ) .so if i publish one book does it mean that > it is > > strted frm that day ,even i may use aries as sign names because now > all > > r english educated and i am writing a english book .so is it means > that > > some latin or european ppl find rasies ?? > > > > > > > > Thnk if ur not under some order or sold ur soul . > > > > i dnt care one person accept me or not ,for me it dont make any > diffrnce > > . > > > > All this are indian ppl and systems and there is no big diffrnce > except > > the diffrnce between hinduism /jainism /budhism or sikhism where as > all > > of them r hindus ( means saindhava ppl also the word hindu is > sindhu too > > ) > > > > > > > > regrds Prashanth Nair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > > Namaskar! > > > As per part I of your post " Agamas which shaped Bharat " , this is > what > > > the author has said, > > > " In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple > > > based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be > dated > > > after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was > > > mentioned in these texts. " > > > > > > Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means > > > that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well! > > > As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. > go > > > through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging > > > doubts regarding " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis modern sciences and > > > also " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of > > > course, " Bhagya " versus " purushartha " etc. etc. > > > Regards, > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > > prashanthnair999@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpts from > > > > Yoga Vasishtha Sara > > > > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha) > > > > An English Translation from the > > > > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition > > > > > > > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha > Ramayana > > > as > > > > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets, > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 HinduCalendar , " Ravilochanan " <ravilochan_tn wrote: Dear Sri Pathmarajah, Upanishads (esp. the Dasopanishads along with Svetashvatara, Mahanarayana, Subala and Kaushitaki)are the first and foremost creations regarding Indian philosophy. The Upanishads' teachings are derived from the Rg Veda itself. The concept of all-pervading Brahman and the Jiva being associated with the Brahman can be seen from Sri Vamadeva's proclamation that he is everything (like the Vishwaroopa/viratroopa). Agamas are later writings which incorporated the Upansihadic teachings along with sectarian theology (like Saiva, Vaishnava, Shakta theology). While no one can deny the importance of the Agamas and their deep philosophical thinking, the Agamas cannot be compared with the Upanishads because the latter are unaffected by any sectarian bias and are the repository of pure philosophy. The Upanishads show the history of the birth, growth and development of Indian philosophy. regards Ravi HinduCalendar , " Pathmarajah Nagalingam " <beastmy@> wrote: > > Dear Prashanth Nair, > > Vannakam. As explained in the Mb Aja means The Unborn. It is a name of > Siva. > > All sorts of things have been attributed to Rishi Agastya. People use > his name to gain credibility. He was just one of the Agamic and Vedic > seers/author. I have studied some of the main agamas and it does not > deal with rashis. It mentions nakshatras, sun, moon and eclipses only. > > HinduCalendar/message/3277 > > The name Skanda has nothing to do with Sikander or Alexander. Skanda has > been mentioned in the Yajur Veda as 'thou art Brahman'. In other places > in the Rig he has been identified as Agni. > > Here is from the Ajita Agama: > > (Lord Siva says:) > 50.2-5 > Skanda is born from my body. He has my energy, my valor. He was created > by me formerly as son of Uma, good for the world. He is also born of > fire. Therefore the fire origin is told of him. So that, among the best > of the gods, he does not have birth from a womb. In the course of time > he became a god with a manifest body, shining like the blazing fire at > the end of the world. > > 50.6-8 > Therefore he is called Born of fire, Born of reed, Skanda, Kumara, > Senani, Subrahmanya, Guru. He is called by all these and other numerous > names. Because he will cause jumping (skand) out of all sins, he is > Skanda. Because he will destroy (maar) evils (ku) he is well known as > Kumara. Because he protects the army of gods he has the quality of > army-leader (Senani). > > (Su-Brahma-nya means 'of the great brahman'.) > > The vedas and agamas were written/passed down orally way, way before > Alexander. > > Another misconception I would like to clear is the dating of vedas and > agamas. The agamas and vedas were written at about the same time as the > seers/authors were the same rishis. One dealt solely with hymns to the > gods, and the other dealt with all four organs, namely chariya or > ethics, kriya or home and temple worship, yoga or meditation, as well as > indepth coverage of jnana or philosophy. A single agama like the Ajita > contains more on philosophy than all the upanishads put together. There > are no hymns in the agamas. Hence the vedas complements the agamas and > there is no overlapping. For the same reason the vedas do not mention > temple worship and murthis (icons). There is no need for overlapping. > > However it is admitted that the agamas which were transmitted down > orally, were only written down much later than the vedas, and used a > more contemporary sanskrit rather than the sanskrit of the Rig Veda. > > Pathma > > > HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > Namaskar! > > <I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav > > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > > dictionaries .> > > The fact of the matter is that you have not been able to disprove > > even a single point raised by me. All you are trying to do is > > deflecting the issues by raising extraneous points! > > > > Let me give you some examples: > > 1. When asked to prove the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in > > the Vedas, your counter argument is that the Vedas are not text books > > of astroomy, least of all astrology! But still you want to call > > predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology! > > 2. When asked to quote any shloka from any indigenous astronomical > > work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha that listed > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, your counter argument is that we have lost > > much of the material and hence such works are not available---but > > still you want to call predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " on > > the strength of that material which has been lost! > > 3. When asked to quote even a single instance where our shastras have > > advised us to consult soothsayers, there also your counter argument > > is that we have lost quite a few shastras, and hence we cannot say > > that the shastras have not advised us to consult soothsaers! > > > > 3. When confronted with the statements of Bhishma Pitamaha, Gautama > > the Budha, Kautilya etc. that they have condemned " nakshara- soochis " > > in no uncertain terms as the real Vedic ethos is against bhagya- vada, > > your counter-argument is that anyone saying so is getting funds from > > others to " destory " predictive gimmicks, which you call " Vedic > > astrology " ! > > 4. When asked as to how our ancestors could make correct predictions > > from the horoscopes prepared from such works as are having > > funamentally wrong algorithms like the Surya Sidhanta, the Arya > > Bhati, Brahma Sphuta Sihanta or Grahalaghava etc., your counter- > > arguments are just posting snippets from here and there > > that " astrology is a science of sciences " ---as if those " magic wands " > > will solve the problems for you! > > 5. When asked whether you had gone through the Vedas yourself since > > you are arguing so voceferously in favour of a non-existent " Vedic > > astrology " your counter argument is that since there is the > > word " Aja " in the Vedas, that means there are all the twelve viz. > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas! Your supplementary argument > > is that you do not want to read any shastras but go by what > > your " Guru " has told you--and that he has told you that you must > > not " divulge Vedic secrets " . > > > > 5. When confronted with proofs that Varahamihira's nomenclature of > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis was a derivative of Grecho-Chaldean > > astrology, your counter argument is that that is old wine in new > > bottles, without, however, producing any new wine yourself! > > > > 6. When asked to prove that Patri-Melapak has been referred to in any > > shastra, you say that someone else has already replied that point, > > but you do not want to name any such work yourself as has advised us > > to marry only after matching the horoscopes! Why do you want always > > to fire guns from others' shoulders! Why not do some research > > yourself and prove us wrong who claim that patri-melapak is a fraud > > perpetuated by jyotishis and not by the Vedic seers! > > > > 7. You have said Prashna Tantra has advised us to marry only after > > Patri-Melapak! You have said so only because somebody else has said > > so, and that somebody is perhaps no longer a member of this forum, as > > otherwise, his/her rabble rousing would not have ceased that abruptly! > > For your kind information, you may rest assured that there is no > > patri-melapak malady in Prashna-Tantra either. > > > > 8. When asked as to whether Cheiro also was a " Vedic astrologer " > > according to you, since you are trying to defend his activities at > > all costs, you are making some incoherent statements like the > > relationship of Sita to Shri Ram! > > > > > > 9. When asked the inconvenient question as to how " Vedic astrology " > > could be a science since predictions in the past could never be > > correct based as they were on fundamentally wrong arguments, all you > > are doing is making fantastic statements like " All scientists believe > > in astrology " . But you have no reply to the question as to when the > > Mesha etc. Rashis---twelve equal divisions of the zodiac---are non- > > existent even astronomically, how can any predictive gimmick be > > scientific! > > > > 10. On the one hand you say that Agamas have perserved the knowledge > > of the Vedas, but when confronted with unpleasant facts that even > > Agamas are not being followed for celebrating festivals on correct > > days because all the Puranas, Tantras etc. talk of so called Sayana > > Rashichakra, you adopt a defiant attitude there also, WHICH PROVES, > > BEYOND ALL THE REASONABLE DOUBTS, THAT IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE > > HELL BENT ON DESTROYING THE HINDU DHARMA BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DEFEND > > NON-EXISTENT VEDIC ASTROLOGY! > > Honestly, I have no good wishes for any such activities of any one, > > who is actually only a namesake Hindu. > > Dhanyavad. > > A K Kaul > > > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > <prashanthnair999@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear respected pandit kaul ji > > > > > > namaskar > > > > > > I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as > > i hav > > > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > > > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > > > dictionaries . > > > > > > so pls dont try to sell coals to New castle . > > > > > > I hav no doubts but it is u ppl who r not ready to accept hard > > facts and > > > trying to prolong discussion .if Mandana Mishra Know this technics > > He > > > cud hav easily make the gr8 sankaracharya a mad person in arguemnts > > ( > > > but he accepted defeat ) and he would hav committed scicide > > > > > > Yavanahi mlecha means yavanas are mlecha ppl ,the old indus > > saidhava > > > sanskriti ppl ( who also known as meluha ppl ) ,it is written by No > > one > > > but gr8 rishi garga Kulaguru of yadavakula ,even during the time of > > > Mahabharatha vidura and yudhishtira was talking to one mlecha > > shilpi who > > > made wax house in their dailect .this saidhava sanskriti influenced > > more > > > areas than vedic and they r propounders of many theorys in > > astrology and > > > finaly when both merged like u kaul tantric ppl accepted vedic > > hindusim > > > ( that is How post YVMR came ).Hindu vedic astrology came into > > todays > > > shape > > > > > > The saidhava ppl main deity was pashupati yogeshwara tantric shiva > > > > > > why no hindus doing much worship llike vedas mentioned where as all > > > doing with agamic tradition s . > > > > > > i dont want to prolong arguemnts ,if u think in this line u can > > > understand it > > > > > > That is why mayan inca civilisation has depicting Indian elephant in > > > their all arcitechture .can u show me one indian elephant i n > > american > > > continent in hisotrical period ) > > > > > > it is the only civilisation use technology and knowledge for well > > being > > > of all ppl by making cities than making one pyramid by using slaves > > or > > > one big wall like china or some stone big structure .think the > > cultural > > > diffrnce and ideology they followed . > > > > > > Only civilisation with blf in continuity of birth and atma and > > universal > > > concept can propound this astro theorys .U will not deny atleast > > they > > > knows architecture and it dont resembles with any body's .so what > > > knowldge might hav possess by this saivagama PPL . > > > > > > by even carbon dating which has error for 2500 yrs it is confirmed > > > saraswathi river mentioned in vedas dried in BC 1900 ( if u blv only > > > euro xian centric theories ) and sage garga was mentioning that ppl > > and > > > same is in Maha bharatha ,think how many 10s of 1000 yrs might hav > > taken > > > this civilisation to formed in full extent b4 it declined thinking > > the > > > slow speed of human's possess 10s of 1000 yrs back > > > > > > dont u know all hindu architecture deals with mayamata even used in > > > middle age temples means build 1000s of yrs b4 ( also ask any > > scientist > > > why radio activity is higher in indus valley ?? what it means ) > > > > > > do u blv rishi agastaya tamil sidha was mentioning rasies .But all > > this > > > is in secret traditions and not gone to brahmins and brahmnisations > > of > > > later caste dvlpmnts .So it was not interpolated like vedas ,but > > givn to > > > only to good sisyas . > > > > > > > > > > > > so u r talking abt wat some one written where as i am talking what > > is > > > exprnced > > > > > > > > > > > > that is diffrnce > > > > > > Mesha means aja ( Think why it has given first name of rasies ),if u > > > know secret of vedas pls expand ,use rest of ur life and i am not > > > allowed to disclose further publicly .Also the scintificaly > > enlightened > > > one (shri sanat ji )asked why nakshatras has religious sysmbols and > > rasi > > > has not ,No it is utter misunderstanding ,think Bharani ( means > > jar ) so > > > it was a collecttion of stars and area which was looking like a > > jar , > > > where religion comes Here ????.same also aplicable to rasies but > > lot of > > > other secrets also in names given ,also greece were occupplied by > > old > > > indian Kshatriyas . > > > > > > think Names like alexander is Al sikander ,or skander or > > skanda ,lord > > > muruga and karthikeyas Name ,pythogores is peetha gurus (yellow > > colored > > > dressed Monks ) .herculese is harikulesa even the word therapy came > > frm > > > thera putha > > > > > > indians some sects dont blv public printing and publishing than > > passing > > > down to sisyas .even what ever come out is just part of traditions > > when > > > some one decided to reveal it ,u ppl r dating frm there .kerala > > cowri > > > kriya is not yet available in any books ,it replace even chinese > > > calculater abacus or what ever it is ,they use this kriya to > > calcualte > > > any planetary movements and position even any numbr of yr back or > > > forward (also can calculate any number faster than computer s even > > today > > > by exprnced persons ) .so if i publish one book does it mean that > > it is > > > strted frm that day ,even i may use aries as sign names because now > > all > > > r english educated and i am writing a english book .so is it means > > that > > > some latin or european ppl find rasies ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thnk if ur not under some order or sold ur soul . > > > > > > i dnt care one person accept me or not ,for me it dont make any > > diffrnce > > > . > > > > > > All this are indian ppl and systems and there is no big diffrnce > > except > > > the diffrnce between hinduism /jainism /budhism or sikhism where as > > all > > > of them r hindus ( means saindhava ppl also the word hindu is > > sindhu too > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds Prashanth Nair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > As per part I of your post " Agamas which shaped Bharat " , this is > > what > > > > the author has said, > > > > " In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple > > > > based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be > > dated > > > > after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was > > > > mentioned in these texts. " > > > > > > > > Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means > > > > that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well! > > > > As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. > > go > > > > through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging > > > > doubts regarding " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis modern sciences and > > > > also " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of > > > > course, " Bhagya " versus " purushartha " etc. etc. > > > > Regards, > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > > > prashanthnair999@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpts from > > > > > Yoga Vasishtha Sara > > > > > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha) > > > > > An English Translation from the > > > > > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition > > > > > > > > > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha > > Ramayana > > > > as > > > > > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: Shri Prashanth Nairji, Namaskar! <what is the use of all this things so long as i am getting enough money to twist and trash all such things called predictiv astrology called vedic astrology .why hindus dont understand everything we got frm jews .even the concept of god other wise they got monkey and elephants as gods .why they need to use all this astrology or what ever it is>. If you are really interested in a shastrartha on the topic of the so called Vedic astrology vis-a-vis Hindu calendar, pl. stop making unfounded personal accusations and incomprehensible rumblings and just list your arguments one by one, together with proofs for your contentions. Pl. donot waste the time of every member otherwise with such sermon as make no sense to anybody. Dhanyavad. AKK HinduCalendar , " prashanthnair999 " <prashanthnair999@> wrote: > > >> > > respected kaul ji > > > > namskar > > > > my christian blf also telling me same ,all astrological thing is gimmiks > ,vedas if some one quotes we shud say it is interpolated if they cant > type all vedas in one mail then that is the oportunity we r waiting for > ( we know tht no one in earht can do it ) ,so if he cant we can bash > vedic astrology as predictiv gimmiks > > what is the use of all this things so long as i am getting enough > money to twist and trash all such things called predictiv astrology > called vedic astrology .why hindus dont understand everything we got frm > jews .even the concept of god other wise they got monkey and elephants > as gods .why they need to use all this astrology or what ever it is . > > > > Now i came out with a calender to celebrate valentilne day and xmas why > cant they follow it ?? as regrds to traditional fesivals this hindu > fools are celebrating all myths ,according our chritian genology world > itself strted in BC 4000 then what the hell they says abt rishies ,who r > them ??they knows earht is flat that also frm Bible which we corrected > and amended bible 500000 times .so how can we approve they hav > infallibility > > now i the reason i tell some lies > > > > i said some one fall in gutter like me and died ( i purpose fully hide > the name because spreading roumers and confusions and doubts is our aim > ) why that man called prashanth nair who is not even 30 by age bring > out all copy of proofs and said i am wrong means he thinks its is vedic > astrologer ,serious crime ,he come to india to learn bible ,why dont he > under stand it ,tho i know palmistry another predictiv gimmiks ,why cant > he go to greek or chaldean or iseiel even if he come to india why he > shud write the truth .see now he made my missionary work an obstacle ,so > i am spreading that roumour because those fellows has good income by > virtue of education or wat ever it is where as i dont hav a thing ,i > strted a panchanga it failed ,i made duplicate calnder committi letter > heads and spread that i am chairman and other are my subordinates still > nothing happend > > he said matching is in prashna maarga but i twisted it as if it is in > prashan tantra .see how i prolong discussions and never agree i failed > tho i failed 1000 times > > we r doing academic discussion so all possibilities of any subjuct we > shud agree ,but how i can agree it as he shud produce it and catch my > ears and proove it in frnt of me ,still i will not agree i will say wine > and bottle only > > I dont understand vedic astrology so i bash with every one <indira > gandhies chart i tried make in some software and see it ,i cud not > understand it first i go and got converted and now see i am getting good > income and then ample of time .My boss wants me to keep on telling lies > ,and confuse ppl ,no one listens me i dont care ,let ppl confuse ,i will > ask suryasidhantha with every one and i will say it is wrong ,but never > will see reality even if is true i will say wrong data and correct > predictions ,because why hindus make it first of all why cant they wait > till galielio or copernickus strt finding it after learning frm east .( > b4 i spread it is greek origin now i got some 12 rasi names only other > than that i dont hav any thing that also some words ,so i twists it as > if greek or roaman or catholic or vatican origin ) > > plastic surgery was there in BC 2600 but i will not agree as without > magnifying glss how it is possible ?/ > > even eye operation is done by charaka or susrutha like fraud rishies but > i will not agree how and why hindus shud possess all this knowledge > ,even if some one says as a proof of knowledge and hindus are not fools > we will ask is plastic surgery is astrology .if some one bring a proof > then we will say show me the date of publication if it s BC 500 so we > can argue alexander attacked india to teach astrology and vedas and all > rishies were greeko roman catholics . > > let some one says ayurveda this veda that veda ,why they use veda -- to > show antiquity and cheat public and innocent hindus will not convert > thinking all this is in veda s so i will ask all chapter frm ayurveda in > vedas who ever says ayurveda is veda ,same is with stapatya veda or any > science they says ,show me in vedas even if they says it is in books to > me , as i put all money in investmnts and earning good money ,so let > them go and buy it and teach me ,so that i can again twist it finding > new points ,if i cannot get points i wait for 10 days then will post it > ,also i will post in all places where he cannot answer too . > > > > as i wanted to win at any cost > > wiki says suryasidhantha is good and correct so is all learned ppl says > ,but i cannot agree it ,first of this hindus dont hav even lankoti how > they can make such works unless greek and chaldean or jewish ppl help in > printing and publishing . > > > > so i will never accept my defeat even if all grp says so .wheter it is > in secret traditions or not .so why cant he disclose it even if he > acuire by hard work .i searhced vedas and find one word aja more than > that i dont understand ,so whose mistake ??it is his mistake .it is not > my duty to search it ,my duty is open a forum or 2 and ask them to > proove it . > > > > even if they proove i will not agree .My duty is to twist ,as i dont blv > in decent dsicsussion if some one calls names i will remind them my age > ,so they will b humble as stupid indians > > > > who ever come here we make them run ,did we search those books they > mentioned ?/let them go to hell or let them type all books in mails .why > i shud search it to proov he or she is correct so they will vanish > automaticaly as they hav other work to do . > > why cant they keep on typing rest of their life tho givs 64K space > for one mail ,if they write 1000 mails we ask them where u prooved it as > by the time many of the material is back mails and that i was > hibernating conveneintly to avoid arguemnts > > so he will either go to first mail or stop there as he cannot go back > and re type or copy it ,let any evidence b there in this grp ,but why > cant he go and search and re type ,even cut and paste we will not allow > .after all we will not even accept any proof, what proof they can giv > can he produce original rishi ,still we carbn date him and limit within > adam birth ,because without adam how any stupid rishi can b born ?? > > > > so i challenge him to proove again > > > > i quoted some names like Budha or vivekanda tho out of context those > poor souls cant come and defend it themslfs we r using them as it is > convenent ,other wise did we follow them we hav amny other serious > things to do . > > > > so i am challenging him to proov again that 30 yrs old fraud > > i will again tell lies and twist let him proov it > > i dont care any one even i dont hav shame too > > so i am waiting for him > > > > regrds calnder for valentines day inventer > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > jyotirved@ wrote: > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > Namaskar! > > <I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as i hav > > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > > dictionaries .> > > The fact of the matter is that you have not been able to disprove > > even a single point raised by me. All you are trying to do is > > deflecting the issues by raising extraneous points! > > > > Let me give you some examples: > > 1. When asked to prove the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in > > the Vedas, your counter argument is that the Vedas are not text books > > of astroomy, least of all astrology! But still you want to call > > predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology! > > 2. When asked to quote any shloka from any indigenous astronomical > > work prior to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha that listed > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, your counter argument is that we have lost > > much of the material and hence such works are not available---but > > still you want to call predictive gimmicks as " Vedic astrology " on > > the strength of that material which has been lost! > > 3. When asked to quote even a single instance where our shastras have > > advised us to consult soothsayers, there also your counter argument > > is that we have lost quite a few shastras, and hence we cannot say > > that the shastras have not advised us to consult soothsaers! > > > > 3. When confronted with the statements of Bhishma Pitamaha, Gautama > > the Budha, Kautilya etc. that they have condemned " nakshara- soochis " > > in no uncertain terms as the real Vedic ethos is against bhagya- vada, > > your counter-argument is that anyone saying so is getting funds from > > others to " destory " predictive gimmicks, which you call " Vedic > > astrology " ! > > 4. When asked as to how our ancestors could make correct predictions > > from the horoscopes prepared from such works as are having > > funamentally wrong algorithms like the Surya Sidhanta, the Arya > > Bhati, Brahma Sphuta Sihanta or Grahalaghava etc., your counter- > > arguments are just posting snippets from here and there > > that " astrology is a science of sciences " ---as if those " magic wands " > > will solve the problems for you! > > 5. When asked whether you had gone through the Vedas yourself since > > you are arguing so voceferously in favour of a non-existent " Vedic > > astrology " your counter argument is that since there is the > > word " Aja " in the Vedas, that means there are all the twelve viz. > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas! Your supplementary argument > > is that you do not want to read any shastras but go by what > > your " Guru " has told you--and that he has told you that you must > > not " divulge Vedic secrets " . > > > > 5. When confronted with proofs that Varahamihira's nomenclature of > > Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis was a derivative of Grecho-Chaldean > > astrology, your counter argument is that that is old wine in new > > bottles, without, however, producing any new wine yourself! > > > > 6. When asked to prove that Patri-Melapak has been referred to in any > > shastra, you say that someone else has already replied that point, > > but you do not want to name any such work yourself as has advised us > > to marry only after matching the horoscopes! Why do you want always > > to fire guns from others' shoulders! Why not do some research > > yourself and prove us wrong who claim that patri-melapak is a fraud > > perpetuated by jyotishis and not by the Vedic seers! > > > > 7. You have said Prashna Tantra has advised us to marry only after > > Patri-Melapak! You have said so only because somebody else has said > > so, and that somebody is perhaps no longer a member of this forum, as > > otherwise, his/her rabble rousing would not have ceased that abruptly! > > For your kind information, you may rest assured that there is no > > patri-melapak malady in Prashna-Tantra either. > > > > 8. When asked as to whether Cheiro also was a " Vedic astrologer " > > according to you, since you are trying to defend his activities at > > all costs, you are making some incoherent statements like the > > relationship of Sita to Shri Ram! > > > > > > 9. When asked the inconvenient question as to how " Vedic astrology " > > could be a science since predictions in the past could never be > > correct based as they were on fundamentally wrong arguments, all you > > are doing is making fantastic statements like " All scientists believe > > in astrology " . But you have no reply to the question as to when the > > Mesha etc. Rashis---twelve equal divisions of the zodiac---are non- > > existent even astronomically, how can any predictive gimmick be > > scientific! > > > > 10. On the one hand you say that Agamas have perserved the knowledge > > of the Vedas, but when confronted with unpleasant facts that even > > Agamas are not being followed for celebrating festivals on correct > > days because all the Puranas, Tantras etc. talk of so called Sayana > > Rashichakra, you adopt a defiant attitude there also, WHICH PROVES, > > BEYOND ALL THE REASONABLE DOUBTS, THAT IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE > > HELL BENT ON DESTROYING THE HINDU DHARMA BECAUSE THEY WANT TO DEFEND > > NON-EXISTENT VEDIC ASTROLOGY! > > Honestly, I have no good wishes for any such activities of any one, > > who is actually only a namesake Hindu. > > Dhanyavad. > > A K Kaul > > > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > prashanthnair999@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear respected pandit kaul ji > > > > > > namaskar > > > > > > I read all ur messges .U dont need to teach me anything new as > > i hav > > > gurus who ask me to exprnce the truth like takur ramakrishna said to > > > swami vivekanada than seeing just few lines and then run for > > > dictionaries . > > > > > > so pls dont try to sell coals to New castle . > > > > > > I hav no doubts but it is u ppl who r not ready to accept hard > > facts and > > > trying to prolong discussion .if Mandana Mishra Know this technics > > He > > > cud hav easily make the gr8 sankaracharya a mad person in arguemnts > > ( > > > but he accepted defeat ) and he would hav committed scicide > > > > > > Yavanahi mlecha means yavanas are mlecha ppl ,the old indus > > saidhava > > > sanskriti ppl ( who also known as meluha ppl ) ,it is written by No > > one > > > but gr8 rishi garga Kulaguru of yadavakula ,even during the time of > > > Mahabharatha vidura and yudhishtira was talking to one mlecha > > shilpi who > > > made wax house in their dailect .this saidhava sanskriti influenced > > more > > > areas than vedic and they r propounders of many theorys in > > astrology and > > > finaly when both merged like u kaul tantric ppl accepted vedic > > hindusim > > > ( that is How post YVMR came ).Hindu vedic astrology came into > > todays > > > shape > > > > > > The saidhava ppl main deity was pashupati yogeshwara tantric shiva > > > > > > why no hindus doing much worship llike vedas mentioned where as all > > > doing with agamic tradition s . > > > > > > i dont want to prolong arguemnts ,if u think in this line u can > > > understand it > > > > > > That is why mayan inca civilisation has depicting Indian elephant in > > > their all arcitechture .can u show me one indian elephant i n > > american > > > continent in hisotrical period ) > > > > > > it is the only civilisation use technology and knowledge for well > > being > > > of all ppl by making cities than making one pyramid by using slaves > > or > > > one big wall like china or some stone big structure .think the > > cultural > > > diffrnce and ideology they followed . > > > > > > Only civilisation with blf in continuity of birth and atma and > > universal > > > concept can propound this astro theorys .U will not deny atleast > > they > > > knows architecture and it dont resembles with any body's .so what > > > knowldge might hav possess by this saivagama PPL . > > > > > > by even carbon dating which has error for 2500 yrs it is confirmed > > > saraswathi river mentioned in vedas dried in BC 1900 ( if u blv only > > > euro xian centric theories ) and sage garga was mentioning that ppl > > and > > > same is in Maha bharatha ,think how many 10s of 1000 yrs might hav > > taken > > > this civilisation to formed in full extent b4 it declined thinking > > the > > > slow speed of human's possess 10s of 1000 yrs back > > > > > > dont u know all hindu architecture deals with mayamata even used in > > > middle age temples means build 1000s of yrs b4 ( also ask any > > scientist > > > why radio activity is higher in indus valley ?? what it means ) > > > > > > do u blv rishi agastaya tamil sidha was mentioning rasies .But all > > this > > > is in secret traditions and not gone to brahmins and brahmnisations > > of > > > later caste dvlpmnts .So it was not interpolated like vedas ,but > > givn to > > > only to good sisyas . > > > > > > > > > > > > so u r talking abt wat some one written where as i am talking what > > is > > > exprnced > > > > > > > > > > > > that is diffrnce > > > > > > Mesha means aja ( Think why it has given first name of rasies ),if u > > > know secret of vedas pls expand ,use rest of ur life and i am not > > > allowed to disclose further publicly .Also the scintificaly > > enlightened > > > one (shri sanat ji )asked why nakshatras has religious sysmbols and > > rasi > > > has not ,No it is utter misunderstanding ,think Bharani ( means > > jar ) so > > > it was a collecttion of stars and area which was looking like a > > jar , > > > where religion comes Here ????.same also aplicable to rasies but > > lot of > > > other secrets also in names given ,also greece were occupplied by > > old > > > indian Kshatriyas . > > > > > > think Names like alexander is Al sikander ,or skander or > > skanda ,lord > > > muruga and karthikeyas Name ,pythogores is peetha gurus (yellow > > colored > > > dressed Monks ) .herculese is harikulesa even the word therapy came > > frm > > > thera putha > > > > > > indians some sects dont blv public printing and publishing than > > passing > > > down to sisyas .even what ever come out is just part of traditions > > when > > > some one decided to reveal it ,u ppl r dating frm there .kerala > > cowri > > > kriya is not yet available in any books ,it replace even chinese > > > calculater abacus or what ever it is ,they use this kriya to > > calcualte > > > any planetary movements and position even any numbr of yr back or > > > forward (also can calculate any number faster than computer s even > > today > > > by exprnced persons ) .so if i publish one book does it mean that > > it is > > > strted frm that day ,even i may use aries as sign names because now > > all > > > r english educated and i am writing a english book .so is it means > > that > > > some latin or european ppl find rasies ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thnk if ur not under some order or sold ur soul . > > > > > > i dnt care one person accept me or not ,for me it dont make any > > diffrnce > > > . > > > > > > All this are indian ppl and systems and there is no big diffrnce > > except > > > the diffrnce between hinduism /jainism /budhism or sikhism where as > > all > > > of them r hindus ( means saindhava ppl also the word hindu is > > sindhu too > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > regrds Prashanth Nair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " > > > <jyotirved@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > As per part I of your post " Agamas which shaped Bharat " , this is > > what > > > > the author has said, > > > > " In short Vedism was fully Yagnic and Agamas were temple > > > > based. Hence it can be safely concluded that the Agamas can be > > dated > > > > after the upanishadic and Mahabharatic period since no temple was > > > > mentioned in these texts. " > > > > > > > > Yogavasishtha Maha-Ramayana is a post Agamic work --- which means > > > > that it is a post Upanishadic and Mahabharatic work as well! > > > > As such, instead of just going through some excerpts of YVMR pl. > > go > > > > through the entire work. You will find an answer to your nagging > > > > doubts regarding " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis modern sciences and > > > > also " Vedic astrology " vis-a-vis Hindu festivals, besides, of > > > > course, " Bhagya " versus " purushartha " etc. etc. > > > > Regards, > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > > , " prashanthnair999 " > > > > prashanthnair999@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpts from > > > > > Yoga Vasishtha Sara > > > > > (The Essence of Yoga Vasishtha) > > > > > An English Translation from the > > > > > Sanskrit Original • 1994 Edition > > > > > > > > > > The Brihat (the Great) Yoga Vasishta or Yoga Vasishta Maha > > Ramayana > > > > as > > > > > it is also called, is a work of about 32,000 Sanskrit couplets, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2008 Report Share Posted November 26, 2008 HinduCalendar , " Pathmarajah Nagalingam " <beastmy wrote: HinduCalendar , " Ravilochanan " > > Upanishads (esp. the Dasopanishads along with Svetashvatara, > Mahanarayana, Subala and Kaushitaki)are the first and foremost > creations regarding Indian philosophy. > > Agamas are later writings which incorporated the Upansihadic teachings > along with sectarian theology (like Saiva, Vaishnava, Shakta > theology). While no one can deny the importance of the Agamas and > their deep philosophical thinking, the Agamas cannot be compared with > the Upanishads because the latter are unaffected by any sectarian bias > and are the repository of pure philosophy. The Upanishads show the > history of the birth, growth and development of Indian philosophy. > > regards > Ravi Dear Ravi, Vanakkam. For long scholars have held the view that the Aryans invaded Dravidian India, imposed the vedas, which were the foundation of Hinduism, the earliest documents on earth, that there is nothing like the upanishads, etc, etc. Hindus will swallow anything as long as it praises their history and culture. These ideas are now being jettisoned. There is no evidence to show that there was any invasion. There is no evidence to show aryans and dravidians are different in dna. Importantly, there is no evidence to suggest that the vedas are the primary shastras of the Hindus, and that everything else flowed from it. On the contrary, there is evidence to show that temples existed in 1,000 BCE in Gujarat, visited by the Sumerian king Nebuchadnazzer. There is evidence to show murthi (icon) worship in Merhgarh in 5,500 BCE, pre-vedic and pre-indus. Where there are temples, there are agamas. Swami Vivekananda, gave a judgment at a Congress held in Madras: " ... We can't always be sure that a doctrine found in the Agama schools really came from the Agamas themselves. And where we do find similar teaching in the Upanishads, or in Nyaya, Samkhya, Yoga, etc., we still can't work out which came earlier…… " Schomerus, 1912 said; " Some Indologists are familiar only with the development from Vedas to Upanishads, and look to understand all of Hindu speculation on that basis. For them Idealism (God in the soul) is the essence of Hinduism, Samkara's Vedanta is inevitably taken as its classic expression: more they cannot see. " Schomerus HILEO WIARDO SCHOMERUS (1879 – 1945) was Professor of Religions and Mission Studies at Halle University. Most Hindu scholars know only the vedas, upanishads, Mb and Ramayana and they think they know everything. More, they cannot see. It is better to abandon the view that the vedas are the fountain of Hindu shastras. Because we do not know for sure. There is no evidence as yet. (Let us all call for evidence from now on.) What we do know is that the vedic and agamic seers were one and the same. The original 28 agamas were written by Kausika, Kasyapa, Bharadvaja, Gautama and Agastya, the very same rishis who wrote much of the veda samhitas. Just ponder about this! How could the agamas be later than the vedas? Did these seers write the vedas and agamas 500 or 1,000 years apart? Pathma --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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