[WAVES-Vedic] [VRI] Fwd: An Important Matter

[Guest guest]

vedic_research_institute , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

Shri I Menonji,

Namaskar!

<I tend to agree with Shri Robertsonji that the Universal Consciousness (the

Unified Field which Maharshi Mahesh Yogi and His Disciples so beautifully and

scientifically explained) that we call Ishwar and the CREATION /CREATED UNIVERSE

of which all of us are DIVINE parts can be experimented, realised and

experienced at individual levels and Vedic Scriptures / Literatures are only one

of the tools that assist one in getting connected to that UNIVERSAL

CONSCIOUSNESS.>

 

This discussion is about streamlining the Hindu calendar and the quibbling

between Shri Bhattacharjya and Shri Wilkinson is whether the non-existent rashi

divisions of an imaginary zodiac are so called sayana or so called nirayana!

 

It appears you also want, like Shri Wilkinson, the people to do a lot of tapasya

and yoga and meditation in order to " invent " a real zodiac instead of an

imaginary one and a zodiac that has twelve equal divisions! All this to make

some " correct predictions " from those " to be invented rashis " !

 

Is that what you are trying to say exactly, since I do not see any connection

with Universal Consciousness and the plain fact that we are all celebrating our

festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because of " tapasvis " and " yogis " and

" tapasvinis " , for whom " Vedic astrology " is the be all and end all of the Vedas

and Puranas and itihasas---nay even tapasya and yoga and mediation etc. etc.

etc.!

 

<And until this relation / connection (ADWAITHAM) is discovered, one would

always be at war with himself and all others around.>

 

Do you mean to say that after discovering the connection between Atma and

Parmatma, one should be at peace with all the jihadis around him, whether the

ones who are decimating our Vedic lore in the name of Vedic astrology or the

ones who are killing innocent people in the name of reviving Islam?

 

With regads,

A K Kaul

 

 

vedic_research_institute , vavamenon <vavamenon@> wrote:

>

> Sirs,

> Namasthe and Greetings !

>  

> I too had exchanged few points in Hindu Calendar forum.

> I tend to agree with Shri Robertsonji that the Universal Consciousness (the

Unified Field which Maharshi Mahesh Yogi and His Disciples so beautifully and

scientifically explained) that we call Ishwar and the CREATION /CREATED UNIVERSE

of which all of us are DIVINE parts can be experimented, realised and

experienced at individual levels and Vedic Scriptures / Literatures are only one

of the tools that assist one in getting connected to that UNIVERSAL

CONSCIOUSNESS.

> If one is a true seeker of TRUTH, one would be able to understand the lectures

of of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, apart from those of Dr. John Hagelin (Nuclear

Physicist) and Dr. Tony Nader (the German Doctor Disciple of Maharishi Mahesh

Yogi - and author of " Human Physiology) who so beautifully and without ambiguity

explain this Unified Field.

> A person of book knowledge can only discuss dry intelligence and not with the

transcendental connections that one's ATMA has with the PARAMATMA.

> And until this relation / connection (ADWAITHAM) is discovered, one would

always be at war with himself and all others around.

> With best regards,

> vm

>  

>   

>

> --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw@> wrote:

>

>

> Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw@>

> [WAVES-Vedic] Re: [VRI] Re: Fwd: An Important Matter

> sunil_bhattacharjya@, vedic_research_institute

> Cc: waves-vedic , vedicscience@, atlantavedictemple@, deenbc@,

jyotirved@, harimalla@, ,

 

> Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 6:19 PM



>

> Namaste Sunil-ji

>  

> If nothing else, your debates with Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam should

provide you with an excellent example of what CONSCIOUSNESS brings to the

discussion. This is especially true in matters of Veda where Consciousness is

precisely the point. I have discussed this issue on WAVES before but in case

you missed it, here it is yet again:

>  

> Almost no one today is aware of these discoveries because the realization of

these eternal truths requires more than just a scholarly, intellectual knowledge

of the Veda. Sri Aurobindo explains:

>  “The perfect truth of the Veda, where it is now hidden, can only be

recovered by the same means by which it was originally possessed. Revelation and

experience are the doors of the Spirit. It cannot be attained either by logical

reasoning or by scholastic investigation… [sanskrit text]…‘Not by

explanation of texts nor by much learning’, ‘not by logic is this

realisation attainable.’ Logical reasoning and scholastic research can only be

aids useful for confirming to the intellect what has already been acquired by

revelation and spiritual experience. This limitation, this necessity are the

inexorable results of the very nature of Veda.â€Â 

                                        \

                   Sri Aurobindo †" The Life Divine

> Part and parcel of this Vedic realization is the profound relationship between

the Cosmic Order and the symbols of its manifestation upon the earth. This

knowledge is found in every Vedic temple which, if properly built, is a symbolic

reconstruction of the universe, binding together the world of the Gods and man.

   

>  

> What you must eventually come to appreciate is that one’s understanding of

these Important Matters and therefore their interpretation of them is

necessarily limited to the plane of consciousness which conditions what they see

and believe.  Most of the discussion you will see on WAVES is limited to the

Mental plane which is characterized by theoretical scholastic discussion full of

argument about words, forms and the interpretations of the works of others,

which are, for the Mental Man, more important than anything else. When one is

limited to that plane and its range of comprehension one naturally infers that

everyone else is bound by the same limitations so any counter argument to

one’s position is interpreted simply as a relative “Opinion†or an

“adamant assertion†rather than knowledge. However, when one rises in

consciousness through the Lived Yogic Experience and the “revelation†that

it brings, one moves beyond the realm of

> relative mental belief into the real and demonstrable knowledge that the Veda

extols.

>  

> Perhaps you can understand that for AKK, the Rashies are simply a mental

“concept†to be endlessly debated and you have to admit that he relishes the

argument and has great fun being such an authoritative proponent of his

position. He brandishes his conclusions with such confidence that many, who have

not bothered to explore these matters for themselves, believe every word he

says.  But, for someone who has actually lived the universal experience of the

Zodiacal archetypes or “Godheads†as they have also been described, the

Rashis are as real and personal as it gets. And to hear someone like AKK denying

their reality is like hearing a fish denying the existence of water. One soon

learns the utter folly of debating the issue with someone of such limited

experience.

>  

> RE Wilkinson

>

> -

> Sunil Bhattacharjya

> vedic_research_ institute

> Cc: waves-vedic ; robtw (AT) sprynet (DOT) com ; vedicscience@

rediffmail. com ; atlantavedictemple@ gmail.com ; deenbc ;

jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com ; harimalla@rocketmai l.com ;

; ancient_indian_ astrology

> Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:45 PM

> Re: [VRI] Re: Fwd: An Important Matter

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Robertsonji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> Avtarji is trying to shoot at me over your shoulders. He is calling  me as

your mentor. You must appreciate this joke.

>

> Anyway  at first he said  that Rashi is not mentioned in Veda. Now he admits

that Vrishbha is indeed mentioned in Veda. Good that at last he learnt that what

he has been proclaiming so far was false that Rashi is not mentioned in Veda 

When you cook rice you dont have to press all the grains to see if all the rice

grains are  cooked. You can know that by pressing a single grain. Now you know

from the above instance alone that Avtarji claims things without knowing the

facts.

>

> One more example. Earlier he thought  that there was no mention of astrology

in the ancient Indian  texts and that the Indians learnt astrology from the

Greeks. In an earlier mailI I mentioned that the ancient Dharma-sashtra Manu

Smriti says  that king should consult astrologer. I hope he will gracefully

retract his earlier statements in this regard.

>

> I have already said about the Varahamihira' s mentioning of the Shakanta-kala

and its implication in dating of Varahamihira, whom Avtarji calls as the

greatest Charlatan, without knowing the true date of Varahamihira. Avtarji 

owes an open apology to Varahamihira, though posthumously.

>

> Everybody knows that the Zodiac is an imaginary belt, whether it is The

Sideraeal or the Tropical. That the word " Zodiac " is derived from the Greek word

" Zodiakos " meaning " a circle of animals " does not prove that the Indians did not

know about the twelve rashis. By being verbose and writing big mails Avtarji

cannot confuse the knowledgeable people. A knowledgeable person will discover

the hollowness in the verbisity from anybody.

>

> In his mail he mentions about the changing of the shape of the rashi due to

the motion of the fixed stars. What can be more preposterous that this statement

of his?

>

> I can go on and on about the misconceptions that Avtarji has but hopre the

above examples will suffice. Can you have any guess asto why Avtarji is out to

malign Hindu astronomy and astrology?

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>

> [VRI] Re: Fwd: An Important Matter

> vedic_research_ institute

> Monday, March 2, 2009, 10:53 PM

>

>

>

>

> WAVES-Vedic, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@ ..> wrote:

>

> Shri Robert E. Wilkinsonji,

> Namaskar!

> Your discussion with Shri Bhattaharjya regarding " An important

> matter " is very confusing though interesting!

>

> For instance you have said, " When you write that,'for nearly twenty

> two centuries the Uttarayana did take place in the Makar Rashi. but

> we have to live in the present situation when the Uttarayana does not

> occur in the Makar Rashiâ€' , you are basing your conclusions on the

> Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure with its irregular

> Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not only unreliable

> and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic " .

>

> The main subject of your discussion and that of Shri Bhattacharjya is

> zodiac, whether it is so called sidereal or so called Tropical! I

> consulted several dictionaries to find the definition of the wrod

> zodiac, and as per Oxford English Dictionary, it is, " An imaginary

> belt in the heavens, about 18° wide, through which the ecliptic

> passes centrally, and which forms the background of the motions of

> the sun, moon and planets; it is divided into twelve equal parts of

> 30° called signs of the zodiac, named after constellations that once

> corresponded to them but do so no longer. The constellations, with

> the appropriate symbols, are as follows: Aries (Ram), Taurus(Bull) ,

> Gemini (Twins), Cancer (Crab), Leo (Lion), Virgo (Virgin), Libra

> (Balance), Scorpio (Scorpion), Sagittarius (Archer), Capricornus

> (Goat), Aquarius (Water bearer),Pisces (Fishes) " .

>

> Zodiac, being actually a derivative of Greek word " zodiakos " ,

> means " A circle of animals " .

>

> It is thus clear in a layman's language that zodiac itself is an

> imaginary belt which has been divided further into twelve imaginary

> equal divisions and each division given an imaginary name!

> No wonder, jyotishis, whether the so called sayana or the so called

> nirayana, are making astoundingly correct predictions from the

> positions of planets in an imaginary division of an imaginary belt!

>

> What I could gather further from your and Shri Bhattacharjya' s posts

> is that you and your " mentor " through your " tapasya " and " yoga "

> are " visualizing " something like a " Goat " (or is it a Crocodile?

> since in India Makara means a crocodile!) being formed in the skies

> when it is Winter Solstice, whereas Shri Bhattachrjya sees,

> in/through his Jyoitisha Shastras, that such a formation could have

> taken place on the day of Winter Solstice sometime in the past but it

> is not happening like that now-a-days!

>

> AS a layman's guide like the Oxford English Dictionary has said, some

> groups of stars could have resembled some forms like that of a Ram or

> Bull etc. several thousands of years back, but now a days, because of

> the proper motion of stars, no cluster resembles either a Bull or

> Scorpion! Then again, one does not have to be a highly qualified

> scholar to understand that a Bull is a Bull and a Scorpion is a

> Scorpion which means that they can never be of equal sizes! Same is

> the case with " Twins " who can never be equal to a Crab! As such, as

> and when clusters of Stars did " jumble " into such formations

> as " Archer " and " Virgin " , they were never equal to one another!

> Since jyotishis, whether so called sayana Vedic or so called nirayana

> Vedic, cannot work with anything unequal, whether it is nakshatras

> or " astrological signs " they had to some how " cut the constellations

> to a uniform size of thirty degrees each " .

>

> And that is what exactly was known as Chaldean astrology!

>

> And as the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention, so

> jyotishis had to search for scriptural authorities, even if there are

> none which advise us to consult some soothsayer for knowing ouir

> future on the shoulders of a non-existent " division " of a non-

> existent " belt " !

>

> If, therefore, Shri Bhattacharjya has seen " the sun meeting a Bull "

> it must have been the same Chaldean Bull rather than some Indian

> Bull! The only problem is that he has seen such a " meetign of the

> sun with the Bull " as per the Vedas--though he has not quoted the

> exact references! Maybe what he wants to prove is that even the

> Vedas are talking of Chaldean constellations!

> And what you are seeing even today at the time of Winter Solstice is

> something like either a Crocodile or a Goat, about which perhaps you

> are not yourself sure, and therefore trying to quote some or the

> other authority, which itself is making the issue all the more

> confusing!

> Or is it that you and Shri Bahttacharjya, through Yogic and jyotisha

> powers, are going to create a new " rashichakra " of twelve equal

> divisions? We do hear that such an " event " did occur in the past

> when Vishvamitra tried to create a new Universe with all the

> galaxies! So maybe he has re-incarnated! After all, if " Vamadevas "

> and " Parasharas " galore can re-incarnate to teach ignoramus people

> like me some phalita jyotisha, what can prevent Vishvamitra to re-

> incarnate!

> Anyway, three cheers for the non-existent twelve-equal- divisions of

> the non-existent zodiac!

> I can only keep my fingers crossed and pray that the real Vedic

> calendar does not get dismantled further in the cross fire of non-

> existent Tropical versus non-existent sidereal zodiac!

> With regards,

> A K Kaul

>

> WAVES-Vedic, " Robert E. Wilkinson " <robtw@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharj- ji

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you for your reply. If you would be so kind, please provide

> me with the exact citation where Sri Aurobindo discusses the date of

> the Mahabharata war.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The root of your error is plainly evident. When you write that,

>  " …for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did take place

> in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present situation when

> the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi� , you are basing

> your conclusions on the Nirayana Sidereal system of calendar measure

> with its irregular Constellations and shifting ayanamsha. This is not

> only unreliable and confusing but worst of all it is un-Vedic. It

> directly contradicts the verses in the Rig Veda that describe  " One

> wheel of three-hundred and sixty spokes, firmly riveted, that shake

> not in the least.� This ‘One Wheel’ is the eternal and

> unchanging Tropical zodiac or Sayana system used by the Rishis to

> precisely measure the Earth in its yearly passage around the ecliptic

> as well as a corresponding movement in the individual. The errors of

> the Nirayana system, to which you evidently , arose with the

> hegemony of scientific relativism into the realm of the sacred when

> the astronomer usurped the role of the sage and seer and proclaimed

> objective astronomical measurement to be the final authority in

> calendar matters.

> >

> >

> >

> > All that you have written to support your contention that there is

> no meaningful connection between Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn

> Solstice and Uttarayana, the northward journey of Sun is, in the

> final analysis, a direct contradiction of the Dharma. Open your mind

> and listen to the words of the world’s leading Seer and Vedic

> Cosmologist on these important matters:

> >

> >

> >

> >  " …We speak glibly of a SANTANA Dharma, the 'eternal' Law. But

> what sort of eternal law, and consequent stability, can a shifting

> calendar provide the Hindu Samaj? The FLOATING AYANAMSHAS in vogue

> today, which bear no sanction in the Veda, are anything but stable

> and constant. Each second that passes of our Earth time causes that

> distant sidereal point light-years away to change position, thereby

> making that Ayanamsha with each passing second inoperable and

> inapplicable for any ritual. If the pundit is sincere to his trade,

> he must know this. He must know that yesterday's Ayanamsha cannot be

> held today as valid because IT HAS SHIFTED IN THE HEAVENS, perhaps

> slightly, but shifted it has. Today it is not where it was yesterday.

> And if we add to this the complete impossibility to determine just

> where and what that Ayanamsha might be, then we understand why there

> is total confusion among the ranks of the pundits. And Hinduism

> suffers an increasing deterioration accordingly, with each ritual

> that propagates this illusion.

> >

> >

> >

> > Absolutism of the eternal Dharma lies within our grasp if we take

> the same Journey the Veda pre-scribes, poised on the immutable four

> Cardinal Points: the March Equinox - Cosmic Dawn; the June Solstice -

> Cosmic Midnight; the September Equinox - Cosmic Sunset; and last but

> best of all, the December Solstice - Cosmic Midday or Uttarayana, the

> highest position of the Sun whereby as a single Ray (the lost Sun

> hidden by Vritra) it descends to the Earth casting no shadows. And

> therefore it is known as the period of Victory for the Aryan Warrior;

> or, in the larger cycles of time, as the Golden Age, the Satya Yuga.

> >

> > We need to understand the 'seed' nature of the Makar Sankranti

> and how it can be said that this is an experience of both the Earth,

> the individual and of the collective Hindu Samaj, all simultaneously

> on that very special Solstice. This is understood when we realise

> that Time itself is compressed to a seed at the De-cember Solstice.

> The 'shortest day of the year' has no other factual significance for

> inhabitants of our special planet than this: compression to a point,

> compaction to a seed. The light of the Sun, those divine Cows/Rays,

> is compressed to this point-experience of Time when its measure

> reaches the extremes of itself [the Solstice or SHORTEST day of the

> year]. And then when the [Makar] Sankranti is observed with the

> right 'combination' - the right harmony of the Earth to the Ecliptic -

> the entire Hindu Samaj connects itself through this 'seed-point' to

> the replenishing Source from which it originally sprang. Today as in

> aeons gone by, it can drink once again of the waters the Goddess

> Mahasaraswati benignly releases abroad upon the world.  " Thea�

> Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, THE MAKAR SANKRANTI - Winter Solstice

> >

> >

> >

> > RE Wilkinson

> >

> > -

> > Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > waves-vedic

> > Cc: robtw@ ; vedicscience@ ; atlantavedictemple@ ;

> hinducivilization ; deenbc@ ; jyotirved@ ;

> harimalla@

> > Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:54 PM

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> >

> >

> > Namaste R.E.Wilkinsonji,

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > You wrote as follows:

> >

> > Quote

> >

> > What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to

> grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn

> Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar

> Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are

> completely incorrect.

> >

> > unquote

> >

> > On the contrary you have not understood the difference

> between the significance of Makara Sankranti and that of Uttarayana.

> You have referred to Sri Aurobindo. Starting from the day when Lele

> taught him how to meditate he did advance to high level of thought.

> But all that Sri Aurobindo said are not to be taken blindly. He said

> that the Mahabharata war took place in 1190 BCE and we now know that

> he was wrong from the archaeological evidence itself as the river

> Saraswati dried up much before 1190 BCE and that at the time of the

> Mahabharata war it was flowing and Balarama's going to the Saraswati

> is mentioned in the Mahabharata. .

> >

> > You have quoted from the Rig Veda. Agreed that

> Brahmanaspati (Brihaspati) did make the knowledge appear (or known)

> that the certain eternal worlds came into being, which open their

> doors with moons ( bright and dark fortnights) and autumns (seasons)

> and that these (the eternal worlds) move effortlessly from one to

> another, but it did not link up the Makar Rashi with any season. In

> the Chapter 8 of the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna describes the path by

> which the yogi, who has known the Brahman departs. Lord Krishna also

> describes the path by which the yogi, who is disciplined but has not

> realised Brahman, goes. Other sources such as the Chandogya

> Upanishad, Baudhayana smriti, Shiva gita and Kurma purana give

> details of these aspects but nowhere they have linked up Makar

> Sankranti with Uttarayana. Different ancient texts, composed at

> different time periods, mention a particular season occurring at

> different Nakshatras which shows that the seasons are not tied to the

> Nakshatras and as the Winter season starts with the Uttarayana so

> also the Uttarayana should also be not linked to any Nakshatra or

> Rashi. Makar Sankramana is about Sankramana of the Makar rashi. As I

> said before that for nearly twenty two centuries the Uttarayana did

> take place in the Makar Rashi. but we have to live in the present

> situation when the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi. If

> you have any doubt abiout the real meaning of rashi, please go to my

> last mail.

> >

> > Let the truth prevail. It is not late for the astrologers,

> who did not know this, to correct themselves and recognise that

> Winter Solstice need not be linked up with the Makar Sankramana.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw@> wrote:

> >

> > Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw@>

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> > sunil_bhattacharjya @

> > Cc: vedicscience@ , atlantavedictemple@ ,

> HinduCalendar, hinducivilization,

> waves-vedic, deenbc@, jyotirved@, harimalla@

> > Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 9:16 AM

> >

> >

> > 

> > Namaste Sunil K. Bhattacharjya- ji

> >

> >

> >

> > What you write is very interesting indeed but it fails to

> grasp the underlying truth of the Makar Sankranti and the Capricorn

> Gateway. Because of this, your conclusions regarding the Makar

> Sankranti and Winter Solstice, the Sayana and Nirayana systems are

> completely incorrect. These are matters of Veda, obtained through

> Shruti as you mentioned. But in order to secure a higher

> understanding of these important matters we must go back to the Vedic

> scriptures themselves.

> >

> > As a matter of curiosity, How many of you on this study

> group have even read Sri Aurobindo’s  " Secret of the Veda�?

If

> this group is truly about Vedic Studies, we must get serious about it

> and go directly to the source. That said, there is no better

> authority on the Veda than Sri Aurobindo. He has plainly stated that

> the Vedas are the oldest extant spiritual scriptures on earth. Its

> name,  " Veda� - the Knowledge, is the received name for the

> highest spiritual truth of which the human mind is capable. Over the

> millennia however this high knowledge became lost or corrupted.  " As

> the Veda had passed from the sage to the priest, wrote Sri Aurobindo,

> so now it began to pass from the hands of the priest into the hands

> of the scholar. And in that keeping it suffered the last mutilation

> of its sense and the last diminution of its true dignity and

> sanctity.� What we are seeing today on WAVES is a continuation of

> that mutilation and diminution… not through scholars, but through

> self-important pseudo-scholars like Yeshu Rathenam who are given free

> rein to post comments that the Veda are a  " worthless set of books.

> This has to stop!

> >

> >

> >

> > Among the many secrets of the Veda given by the ancient

> sages, are precise instructions, yogic techniques, the goal of which

> is to help us ascend beyond our mortal mentality to the luminous

> truth of our being on the spiritual plane of our existence. The

> Rishis are quite plain spoken on this account. The secret of secrets,

> the greatest mystery of the Veda is a supremely enlightened state

>  " Swar� which results from a perfect alignment of the individual

> with the twelve months of the sacrificial year.

> >

> >

> >

> > " Certain eternal worlds are these which have come into

> being, their doors are shut to you (or opened) by the months and the

> years. Without effort one world moves in the other, and it is these

> that Brihaspati has made manifest to knowledge " Rig Veda (II.24.5)

> >

> >

> >

> > These secret eternal worlds have been closed to us by our

> misperception of the movement of time. The months and the years,

> therefore have to be re-discovered and created in us by that same

> power. This, says the Rishi, is the mightiest work, the fairest

> achievement and it hinges on the conquest of time.

> >

> >

> >

> >  " The Vedic idea was that the subconscient darkness and

> the ordinary life of ignorance held concealed in it all that belongs

> to the divine life and that these secret riches must be recovered

> first by destroying the impenitent powers of ignorance and then by

> possessing the lower life subjected to the higher.� Sri Aurobindo,

> Secret of the Veda (p. 238)

> >

> >

> >

> > What we are interested in writes Sri Aurobindo, is the

> process by which one is able to release the soul’s light and come

> to know and live the higher stages of the journey and in so doing,

> developing ‘the unity of the nine-rayed and the ten-rayed seers who

> by the utter thought of the soul, by the word that illumines broke

> open the fortified pens ...' This then is the Vedic sacrifice: ‘ a

> journey; indeed the sacrifice itself is described as travelling, as

> journeying to a divine goal; and the journey and the sacrifice are

> continually spoken of as a battle against the dark powers.' Ibid, (p.

> 183)

> >

> >

> >

> > '. . . the possession of our complete divine

> consciousness delivered from all falsehood by the free descent of the

> truth, gives us the secure possession of the world of Swar and the

> enjoyment of mental and physical being lifted into the godhead above

> the darkness, falsehood and death by the in-streaming of our divine

> elements. This victory is won in twelve periods of the upward

> journey, represented by the revolution of the twelve months of the

> sacrificial year, the periods corresponding to the successive dawns

> of a wider and wider truth, until the tenth secures the victory. What

> may be the precise significance of the nine rays and the ten, is a

> more difficult question which we are not yet in a position to solve*.

> But the light we have already is sufficient to illuminate all the

> main imagery of the Rig Veda.' Ibid (p. 182)

> >

> >

> >

> > In his Secret of the Veda, Sri Aurobindo described these

> worlds of Swar as  " Godheads� but it was not until the

> cosmological discoveries made by  " Thea� Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

> that these symbols, Vedic  " godheads� of  " the nine rays and

the

> ten� were revealed to be synonymous with and referring to the 9th

> and 10th months of the cosmic year: Sagittarius and Capricorn. And,

> according to the Rishi, it is in the Tenth Month (CAPRICORN) that the

> final Victory is achieved. It is for this reason and none other that

> the Makar Sankranti, the Capricorn Gateway, is the most important

> ritual date in the Hindu Calendar. Perhaps you will now understand

> why it is so important that the true Makar Sankranti (Winter

> Solstice) be observed on 21 December and not 14 January.

> >

> >

> >

> > In the service of Truth,

> >

> >

> >

> > RE Wilkinson

> >

> > -

> > Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > Robert E. Wilkinson

> > Monday, February 23, 2009 7:47 PM

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An Important Matter

> >

> >

> > Dear Robert E. wilkinsonji,

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > The astrologers like AKK show concern at Makar

> Sankranti being observed about three weeks after the Winter Solstice

> but they never care to know what is the true meaning of the Makar

> Sankranti. Makar is the Makar rashi and Sankranti means the act of

> Sankraman or intrusion. So Makar Sankranti has to when the Sun enters

> the Makar Rashi. AKK and others never care to know why Makar Rashi is

> considered important. Shravana nakshatra is in the Makar rashi and

> this is Nakshatra ruled by Shri Hari. Shravana and Shruti has the

> same origin and Shruti is the Veda. Shravana is considered asthe

> Nakshatra of the Veda-Mata Saraswati. Before Abhijit Nakshatra, whose

> ruler is Brahmaa, moved away to become the Pole-star, Abhijit used to

> be a Nakshatra in the makar rashi. Appropriately Makar rashi was

> called the Brahma rashi in the Mahabharata. Astrologically also the

> Makar Rashi is considered to be Rashi of Bharatvarsha. Thus the Makar

> Rashi has a unique position and the Sun's entry into the Makar Rashi

> is an important event. Thus the Makar Sankranti has been and will be

> observed when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

> >

> > Now it is also true that at one time the Winter

> Solstice did take place in the Makar Rashi for close to twenty two

> centuries. Even the latitudinal line at the point of the Winter

> Solstice had begun to be called as the Makar Rekha or the Tropic of

> Capricorn and this was appropriate only as long as the Wlnter

> Solstice occurred in the true Makar Rashi. So AKK and others think

> that Makar Sankranti and Winter Solstice are synonymous, forgetting

> that this can only happen only for close to twenty two centuries at a

> time and then wait for close to twenty four Millennia for that to

> reoccur. This is not to say that the Winter Solstice has no

> importance. The Tropical Calendar cannot do without the recognising

> the Winter Solstice. So the Tropical calendar has to learn to coexist

> with the Sidereal calendar. If those who want to observe the Winter

> Solstice as the Uttarayana day can observe it by all means. So let us

> have one additional festival day on the Uttarayana day for those who

> want to onserve that rather than trying to annul the Makar Sankranti

> festival on the day when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Robert E. Wilkinson

> <robtw@> wrote:

> >

> > Robert E. Wilkinson <robtw@>

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] RE: Fwd: An

> Important Matter

> > sunil_bhattacharjya @, harimalla@

> > Cc: vedicscience@ , atlantavedictemple@ ,

> HinduCalendar, hinducivilization,

> waves-vedic, deenbc@, jyotirved@

> > Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:55 AM

> >

> >

> > Namaste Hari Mala-ji,

> >

> > Thank you for your response and the interesting

> information about the Makar.

> >

> > You bring up some interesting points in your

> letter which I feel the need to address in some detail. Let me begin

> with your request that those of us interested in Calendar Reform do

> this through a " concerted effort and if possible without changing any

> of the current practices and by not insisting on any particular

> method. It is your belief that this would be the best type of reform

> and acceptable to most " .

> >

> > I am sure you have the best of intentions but

> your reply reveals exactly what is WRONG with the general attitude

> surrounding these important matters. Let me explain:

> >

> > First, it is virtually impossible to reform the

> calendar through a concerted effort given the wide gaps in

> understanding evidenced by these discussions on WAVES. I agree with

> you that Dr. Arya is worthy of praise but, in my opinion, the

> scholarship of Krishen Kaul and Yeshu Rathenam does not rise to that

> level. Nevertheless you would prefer that we find an inclusive

> solution, without changing the current practices and acceptable to

> most. In other words you would be comfortable with some kind of

> compromise that doesn’t rock the boat. You are evidently unaware

> that when it comes to matters of Higher Truth and the cosmological

> absolutes that the Veda prescribes, compromise is simply not an

> option. What is required is credible LEADERSHIP that can expose the

> fallacious logic that so often passes for wisdom on this discussion

> group. What I find simply unbelievable is that many of the members of

> WAVES, people who supposedly have some knowledge of the Veda, accept

> the pretentious posturing of AKK as gospel while virtually ignoring

> the authoritative statements of Veda masters like Sri Aurobindo,

>  " Thea� Patrizia-Norelli- Bachelet and Swami Dayananda Saraswati.

> No discrimination is made between the opinions of scholars and the

> direct knowledge of the sage. Naturally this results in an

> environment of mass confusion out of which true Calendar Reform

> cannot emerge.

> >

> > And what is the result? One of the esteemed

> leaders of a Vedic Temple in the US reads what I have written on

> calendar reform and, not being a Sanskritist or Jyotish scholar

> himself, he writes and asks AKK to set him straight out of his vast

> experience and knowledge. Here is someone who holds a position of

> trust and leadership in the religious community, responsible for the

> spiritual guidance of others, and he has no understanding of these

> important matters. I have written him on several occasions to ask for

> a fair hearing but, because of his faith in AKK, I have not received

> even the courtesy of a reply. So this man, having placed his

> confidence in a person of no realization and preferring not to rock

> the boat, returns to his flock and leads them on a path of Adharma

> rather than make a sincere effort to establish what is and is not the

> truth of the Veda. Now multiply this by tens of thousands and you

> have some idea of the problem we must overcome to re-establish the

> Sanatana Dharma.

> >

> > So to answer your question, No! we cannot give

> in to compromise. No! we cannot continue the current Nirayana

> practices and Yes!, we must insist on the method laid down in the

> Veda if we are to have any meaningful reform of the Calendar.

> >

> >

> >

> > As for the names of the temples in India that

> have embraced the beginnings of Calendar reform, you will find them

> listed on my website http://www.vediccos mology.com.

> >

> > In the service of truth,

> >

> > RE Wilkinson

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> >

> >

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 -

> Release 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> ----------

> >

> >

> >

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1967 - Release Date:

> 2/23/2009 7:17 AM

> >

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

 

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release 3/1/2009 5:46

PM

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---