Vedic astrologers read dharmashastras upside down!

March 17, 2009

Dear friends,

Namaskar!

A common question I am often asked is, “Why are you against ‘Vedic astrology’ and not against other predictive methods like palmistry, Tarot etc. etc. Do you believe in them"?. The answer is an emphatic no. Then why am I against “Vedic astrology” alone?

“Vedic astrology” and Vedic calendar have an inherent mutual conflict!

As is common knowledge by now, there is a direct conflict between Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashi based jyotisha, whether sayana or nirayana, and the real Vedic calendar, since there are no Mesha etc. rashis (nor Mangal, Shani etc. planets) but only Madhu, Madhava etc. months, tithi, nakshatras and Udgayana etc. phenomena in the Vedas, Brahnmanas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. whereas “Vedic astrology” cannot survive without Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets. “Vedic astrologers” are imposing those very imaginary rashis -–zodiac means an imaginary “circle of animals!”---on the Hindu calendar dictating simultaneously that even if there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga jyotisha etc., we must celebrate all the Vedic, Pauranic and geographic/seasonal festivals like Uttarayana, Vasanta Navratra or Sharadiya Navratra etc. on days suggested by “Lahiri jyotishis” and not the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Puranas or even geographical phenomena etc.!

“Vedic astrologers” never quote the exact references in spite of repeated reminders!

To continue their opposition to the real Vedic calendar because of its conflict with “Vedic astrology”, these “Vedic astrologers” are claiming that predictive gimmicks through Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras which, according to them, are subsumed in Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis vis-à-vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets have been advocated/permitted/sanctioned by our dharmashastras! Some moderators/owners of astrology forums even claim that the Atharva Veda has given results of being born in different nakshatras! Another "Vedic astrologer" says that "the sun went to meet the Bull" means the astrological sign Vrishaba as per the Vedas! As they are not quoting the relevant shlokas/mantras in support of their arguments, in spite of being asked to do so repeatedly, they are liars and are obviously making a fool of everybody!

A “Vedic astrologer” had even claimed "The Manu Smriti is the oldest Dharmasashtra and the fact that it permitted astrology means that astrology was permitted from the beginning of the Hindu civilization." But, as is the habit of these “Vedic astrologers”, he also has not quoted any shloka in support of his “declaration”!

The facts of the case, however, are:

“Nakshatra-jeevis i.e. jyotishis must be debarred from performing any religious rites”--Manu

I request these "Vedic astrologers" to do some introspection after reading as to what the Manu has said actually about "nakshatra-jeevis" (jyotishis!) in shloka 162 of third adhyaya, and I quote:

"hasti go ashva ushtra damako NAKSHATRAIR YASHCHA JEEVATI,

pakshinam poshako yashchai, yudhacharyas tathaiva chai.."

This shloka in the Manusmriti is actually in the context about as to which people are to be debarred from performing diava and pitrya karyas i.e. yajnyas etc for gods and oblations etc. for the Manes, and the Manu has said unequivocally "Trainers of elephants, cows, horses; ANYONE WHO EARNS HIS LIVELIHOOD BY DINT OF NAKSHATRAS and one who puts birds into cages are not allowed to perform any daiva or pitra karya"

The Hindi translator of Kshemraj Shri Krishendas, Bombay, edition of the Manusmriti has translated the above shloka as follows, “haathi, bail, ghoda aur oont – in sabko sikhane wale aur JYOTISH SE JEEVIKA KARNE-WALE—yeh sab shubha karya main varjit hain”. Is this the permission that the Manu is supposed to have granted?

The same “Vedic astrologer” who had said that the Manu had “permitted astrology” had said further, "If Avtarji has not read what the Manu Smriti says about astrology he has no right to say that astrology is not sanctioned in the ancient past." It means, thus, that he, like all his counterparts, has read the Manusmriti upside down!

“One must forget bhagya and only stick to purushartha”---Manu

The same “Vedic astrologer” had also said that the Manu has advised that a king must consult a jyotishi. However, again, he has not quoted any shloka in support of his argument and it appears that he is confusing, because of his Tamoguni budhi, the Manu with Varahamihira! It is the latter according to whom a king must definitenly have a "samvatsarika"! The Manu was not a fatalist. He was a scholar extraordinary with practical knowledge of statecraft besides the Vedas etc. and what he has actually advised the king to do, instead of consulting soothsayers, is:

“bakavat chinatayet arthan simha vat chai prakramet

Vrika vat cha avalumpeta shashavat cha vinishpatet” Manusmriti 7/106

i.e. "Like a kingfisher eager to hunt some fish in the river/sea/lake, a king must concentrate on increasing his wealth (a kingfisher does not consult soothsayers before pecking at the fish!). A king must jump on his enemy like a lion jumps on its prey (lions do not consult ‘Vedic astrologers’ before jumping on their preys). Like a wolf a king must kill his enemy even if it is hidden in a fort (No astrologer has as yet claimed that he was consulted by some wolf!). Like a hare, a king must know how to extricate himself from tricky situations (Does anybody know if any rabbit has consulted some jyotishi?)"

In 7/182-83, the Manu has said, "A king must wage a war in the month of Margasheersha or Phalguna or any other suitable period when he is sure of his victory by dint of the opponent king having got addicted to some bad habits etc.”

Consulting fortune tellers is definitely a fad, a bad habit, an addiction and has been proscribed by shastras since it makes one very unsure of himself/herself and leaves him/her at the mercy of soothsayers, most of whom are liars and quite a few of whom call themselves "Vedic astrologers" these days. Example is better than precept and that example is: BJP was sent into wilderness as jyotishis had assured them that by advancing the elections, Shri A B Vajapayee would be the PM, come what may! Poor Vajpayeeji has all along been bedridden, after having lost his throne! No jyotishi had “foreseen” that!

Regarding "bghagya versus purusharth", this is what the Manu has said,

Naatmanam avamanyeta parvabhir abhisamridhibhih

Aamrityoh shriyam anvishyet nainam manyeta durlabam,… (Manusmirit 4/137) i.e.

"If in spite of making efforts, one is not able to earn the desired amount of wealth, one must in no case feel himself/herself unfortunate but continue to make efforts till the end of his/her life, since it is not that difficult to earn wealth (by making proper efforts)"

The Manu has not advised that one must consult soothsayers to do some remedial measures or wear some gem to remove non-existent and imaginary kalasarpa doshas and ashtama shani and what not to get rid of penury!

The real crux of fate versus efforts has been described by the Manu in 7/205

Sarvam karmedam ayattam vidhane daiva manushye

tayor daivam achintyam tu manushe vidyete kriya

"What good or bad deeds have been done in our past births are in the hands of 'daiva'. What (good or bad deeds) we are doing now in this birth is up to us. Since what is past is past. It need not be pondered upon. But the present can certainly be taken care of (and as such, we should forget the past janmas and concentrate on good deeds in this janma---and certainly making a fool of the gullible public by making correct predictions from incorrect data is not a good deed at all, nor is it a “good deed” on the part of “clients” to run after soothsayers!).

To remove any doubts further from the minds of astro-buffs, the Manu has defined purushartha as follows:

“alabdham chaiva lipsyet labdham rakshyet prayatnatah

Rakshitam vardhayet chaiva vridham paatreshu nikshipet

Etachchaturvidham vidyat purushartha prayojanam

Asya nityam anushthanam samyak kuryat atandritah” 7/99-100

“One must attempt to obtain what he/she has not obtained yet. He/she must preserve what he/she has already earned, and keep on increasing it further. After having increased it, he/she should utilize (invest) it properly

“These are the four limbs/types of purushartha and one must always keep them in mind and act accordingly (and not waste his/her time and wealth and energy by running after nakshatra-soochis!)”.

Bhishma also has castigated nakshatra-soochis!

Let us hear what Bhishma had to say about “nakshatra-soochis”

“ahvayakah devalakah naakshatra gramayajakah

Ete brahmana chandalah maha-pathika panchakah”….. Shanti Parva 76/6

i.e. “Court bailiffs, pujaris of temples for the sake of money, those who study naksahtras (jyotishis!)…are chandalas even if they are Brahmins (and must be excluded from daiva and pitrya karya)”.

Bhishma also did not believe in bhagya (and therefore nakshatra-soochis!) but in purushartha:

Let us now hear Bhishma’s views about bhagya versus purushartha:

“utthanenna sada putra prayatetha yudishthira

Na hi utthanam rite daivam rajnyam artham prasadayet” Rajdharmanushasana parva 65/14

“Dear son Yudishthira, you must always rely on your own efforts since without your own efforts there is no question of any daiva (bhagya) bestowing any riches on any king”

“vipannam vai samarambhe santapam ma sma vai krithah

Ghattasvaiva sadaatmanam rajnyam eva paro nayah” Rajadharmanushasana parva 65/16

“If you are besieged by miseries, do not feel despondent. To struggle with adversities (without consulting soothsayers!) is the only way out for a king to come out of those adversities.”

Vishnugugupta Kautileeya a.k.a. Chanakya has no good words for nakshatra-soochis and astro-buffs!

The world famous statesman Chanakya (4th century BCE), in his Arthashastra, has dissuaded a king about consulting nakshatra-soochis in no uncertain terms:

“nakshatram ati prichhantam baalo artham ati vartate

Artho hyarthasya nakshatram kim karishyanti tarakah”

i.e. “ The objective (artha) eludes the foolish man (baalam) who enquires too much from the stars. The objective should be the nakshatra of the objective, of what avail are the stars”. We must not forget that Chankya destroyed the last king of Nanda-Vamsha, who was an astro-buff. It means thus that to destroy a powerful enemy you have to shun and not embrace nakshatra-jeevis!

Vasishtha Muni, the preceptor of Bhagwan Rama, also has chided astro-buffs and jyotishis:

Yoga-Vasishtha Maharamayana has nothing but sarcasm for jyotisha, jyotishis and also their clients in no uncertain terms when he has said:

“kaal vidbhir vinirneetaa yasyasti chira jeevita,

sa ched jeevati sanchhin shiras tad daivam uttamam

kaal vidbhir vinirneetam pandityam yasya raghava

anadyapita vidyash-ched vidvan tad daivam uttamama” Mumukshu vyavhar prakran 8/18-19

“Destiny may be said to be efficacious/effective, if some one for whom the jyotishis (fortune tellers) had predicted a long life survives even after he has been beheaded.

“Destiny may be said to be something to be reckoned with, if some one for whom jyotishis had predicted great scholarship becomes a scholar without reading even a single alphabet himself/herself”

It is clear that after the nakshatra and/or utpata-soochaka works like “Atharva-Veda Parishishta” or “Parashara Samhita” etc. had been spawned, the real well wishers of Bharatavarsha like the Manu, Bhishma and Vasishtha and even Vishnugupta Kautileeya etc. had warned the Hindus in no uncertain terms about the pernicious effects of running after “nakshatra soochis” who are actually "chandalas" even if they are Brahmins!

Gautama the Budha also has warned about omen-mongers in no uncertain terms:

“Some brahmanas and shramanas earn their livelihood by taking to beastly professions and eating food brought to them out of fear; the say, ‘there will be a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse, occultation of the stars, the sun and the moon will move in the correct direction, the nakshatras will move in the correct path, in the incorrect path, there will be precipitation of meteors, burning of the cardinal direction, earthquakes, roar of heavenly war drums, the sun, the moon and the stars will rise and set wrongly producing wide distress among all beings etc. (Just do not be taken in by their pranks!)” Digha nikaya, Vol I, p 68, Pali Text Book Society

All the dharmashastras are against nakshtra-schoochis/jeevis:

It is not only the Manusmriti and the Mbh or Yogavasishtha but every dharmashastra has castigated vociferously such “brahaman chandalas”

Let us see what Atri Samhita 383-385 has to say

“jyotirvido hyatharvanah keerah pauran-pathakah

Shradhe yajnye mahadane na varneeyah kadachanai

Shradancha pitaram gauram danam chaiva tu nishphalam

Yajnye cha parihanih syat tasmat tan parivarjayet

Aavkashchitrakarashchai vaidyo nakshatra pathakah

Chatur vipra na pujyante brihaspati samah yadi

“A JYOTISHI, AN ATHARVANA, ONE WHO NARRATES PURANAS FOR A LIVELIHOOD, ALL THESE ARE TO BE AVOIDED IN A SHRADHA AS WELL AS A YAJNYA AT ALL COSTS. IF THESE PEOPLE DO PARTICIPATE IN SHRADHAS ETC. ALL SUCH SHRADAS AND ANY CHARITIES TO THEM WILL BE NISHPHALA I.E. FRUITLESS. THEY WILL DO MAXIM HARM TO ANY YAJNYA IN WHICH THEY PARTICIPATE. THEY MUST THEREFORE BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS……A BRAHMIN WHO IS A NAKSHATRA PATHAKA I.E. ONE WHO READS NAKSHATRAS OF HIS CLIENTS HAS TO BE SHUNNED AND AVOIDED EVEN IF HE IS AS LEARNED AS BRIHASPATI, THE PRECEPTOR OF GODS ”.

It is worthwhile to note that the “Atharva Veda Parishishita” has advised to utilize the services of an Atharvana without fail whereas Atri Rishi has advised that an Atharvana, even if he is as well-read and intelligent as Brihaspati, has to be shunned like a “chandala”

I wonder if there can be anything more damaging/castigating for nakshatra-soochis---who call themselves “Vedic astrologers” these days---than Atri’s admonishments!

Vridha vasishtha has called nakshtra soochis as papamoortih i.e. sin personified:

Nakshatra soochee kila papa-roopo, heyah sada sudharma kritye……. Vridha-Vasishta

A nakshatra soochi is sin personified and must be avoided at all costs in any good deed.

Was Varahamihira really a well-wisher of the Hindus or of the Greeks/Ionians, since he called the latter “mlechhas” but wanted the Hindus to worship them as Rishis because they knew astrolatory?

As everybody knows, Varahamihira, whom some “Vedic astrologers” address as “Parama pujya”---i.e. the “Most worshipful one”, has said in his Brihat Samhita 2/15

Mlechhah hi yavanas teshu samyak shastram idam sthitam

Rishi vat te-api pujyante, kim punar daiva-vid dvijah

”Yavanas (Greeks and/or Ionians) are certainly mlechhas actually but as they know the shastra of astrology (predictive gimmicks!) they are worshipped like Rishis…”. However, all our shastras, as seen above, advise that even if a highly well read Brahmin like Brihaspati is a nakshatra-soochi/jeevi i.e. a jyotishi, he must be shunned like a chandala from all the religious functions!

Since it is those very “doctrines” that have been castigated by our Rishis that were later propagated/advocated by Varahimihira on the shoulders of Sphujidwaja’s Yavana Jatakam and Maya the mlechha’s Surya Sidhanta etc., we have to be extremely wary about the intentions of that Varahamihira and today’s “Vamadevas” and “Parasharas” who tell us that predictive gimmicks are “Vedic astrology” and who call those gimmicks as “Vedanga Jyotisha” which actually is a mathematical work for calculating tithi etc.

Since all the sages like the Manu, Vasishtha, Chanakya and even Gautama the Budha were of a pre-Varahamihira era, who was around in about 6th century AD, it means Varahamihira had either not read any of those admonishments---nay even our dharma-shastras---or ignored them deliberately. Most probably, it must be the latter, since that is what today’s “Vedic astrologers” are doing! It could also be that he read dharmashastras upside down, exactly like today’s “Vedic astrologers” who claim that the Manu had permitted astrology. It is, therefore, extremely doubtful that Varahamihira was a well-wisher of the Hindus, as he appears to have misguided them about his prowess of predictive gimmicks on the basis of a monstrous astronomical work viz. the Surya Sidhanta and advised them to treat even mlechhas as Rishis if they knew astrolatory!

It is worthwhile to note that the same “Vedic astrologer” who says that the Manu has “permitted astrology” goes on parroting that Varahamihira belonged to an era of 6th century BCE instead of 6th century AD, but, as is the habit of “Vedic astrologers”, he is not advancing any proofs for the same either!

Actually, some good for nothing Greek astronomer masqueraded as Maya, the father-in-law of famous Rakshasa king Ravana, at the fag end of Satya-yuga (sic!) and some “mlechhas” are masquerading today as “Vamadevas”, all teaching us “Vedic astrology” (sic!). You can draw your own conclusions about Varahamihira as well as today’s “Vamadevas” and “Parasharas” whose only aim is thus to derail the real Vedic calendar through “Vedic astrology”! That also reminds me that some jyotishis are sort of worshipping even Ravana for the astrological knowledge he is supposed to have bequeathed through his Ravana Samhita etc. works! I have seen that work also, and like Brihat Parashari, is the worst possible figment of imagination!

Common-sense also demands to shun being a “kapurusha” (a fatalist eunuch!)

I remember having read, several decades back, a dialogue---perhaps--in Panchatantra. A shishya, after having met with failures in spite of his efforts, was disappointed and said to his Guru, “bhagyam phalati sarvatra, na vidya na chai paurusham” i.e. “It is only fate and neither efforts nor education etc., that work/frucitfy everywhere in case of a human being”. The Guru, however, retorted,

“udyoginam purusha simham upaiti lakshmi, daivena deyam iti kapurusha vadanti”---

“Only someone who acts like a lion i.e. one who makes Herculean efforts in spite of having met with failures, deserves the blessings of Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth. On the other hand, ‘bhagya will do everything’ is a pet dialogue of eunuchs”. That is also what Bhagwan Krishna advised Arjuna in the Gita:

“klaibyam ma sma gamah parthai naitat tvayi upapadyete

Kshyudram hridaya daurbalyam tektvotishtha parantapai”

“O Arjuna, don’t act like a eunuch! It does not behove you! Shake off your sloth and weak heartedness and get up and fight – act” Bhagwan Krishna did not ask Arjuna to consult any soothsayer nor did He advise Arjuna to “leave everything to your fate”. We also must, therefore, wake up and make every effort ourselves to save the Vedic calendar from the clutches of “Vedic astrologers”, instead of expecting some miracles!

“Try, try again”

I also remember having read in my school days a REAL STORY of some king, perhaps Rana Sanga of Rajasthan—I am not sure, that after fleeing from his opponents, he was hiding in a dilapidated house in ruins and was in utter frustration. There he saw a spider crawling towards its web but the ‘thread’ through which it was crawling snapped and it fell to the ground. The spider kept on trying again and again and it is said that it succeeded in going into its web after an eighth attempt. The king was amazed on the tenacity of the spider and got an inspiration, ‘Try, try again’ from that creature! Instead of running to some jyotishi, like today’s politicians, he made several attempts and ultimately succeeded in vanquishing his enemy. So if we really want to succeed in our efforts to streamline the Vedic calendar, the first thing we have to do is to shun “brrahmana-chandalas”.

Are our dharmacharyas aware of the damage that is being done to the nation by “Vedic jyotish”?

In a nutshell, all our shastras and common sense are against any sort of indulging in “bhavishya-darshan” especially as it is the greatest obstacle in streamlining the Hindu calendar. It is only “Vedic astrologers” who are putting the cart before the horse by trying to convey that our shastras have “permitted astrology” from the “beginning of Hindu civilization”!

Since these “Vedic astrologers” are not quoting any exact references in support of their arguments, it appears that they are completely enveloped in Tamoguni budhi and therefore interpreting every shastra in quite an opposite manner!

What is all the more surprising is that our dharmacharyas and jagadgurus and “his holiness of art of one thing or the other” etc. etc. are encouraging these “brahmana chandalas” in their anti-Vedic activities in the name of “Vedic astrology”!

May be even those dharmacharyas etc. etc. are reading all the shastras upside down, since the Manu has advised especially Vanaprasthis, which naturally includes Sanyasis and dharmacharyas and jagadgurus etc. etc., to desist from being nakshatra soochis, in no uncertain terms:

“na chaa utpata nimitabyam na nakshatranga vidyaya

Na anushasana vadabyam bikshyam lipset karhichit Manusmriti 6/50

“A Vanaprasthi should never earn his ‘biksha’ (a mendicant’s livelihood) either by declaring the results of utpatas i.e. omens like falling of meteors or flying of swallows etc. etc.; face reading etc. nor by nakshatra vidya i.e. by checking the horoscopes of others…..”

I, therefore, request these dharmacharyas and “his holinesses” and yogis and tantriks galore to wake up to such travesty of dharmashastras and instead of reading them upside down, they must streamline the real Vedic calendar in accordance with the Vedic lore and not “Lahiri-lore” or “Ramana-lore” or “Chandra-Hair-lore” etc.

A friendly advice to all the “nakshatra-soochis” and “nakshatra-jeevis” who call themselves Vedic astrologers these days:

Since most of the “Vedic astrologers” and their “acharyas” are prospering by leaps and bounds at the cost of the real Vedic calendar by such anti-Vedic activities as “Vedic astrology” they feel that they are doing the right thing and they must continue to do so, as instead of losing anything, they are gaining name and fame and of course, wealth! But this is what Bhishma has said about such nouveau riche people.

Na adharmash-charito rajan sadyah phalati gaurivaa

Moolani chai prashakhaschai dahan samdhigachhati

Papena karmana vittam labdva papah prahrishyeti

Sa vardamanah steyena papah pape prasajyete

Na dharmo asteetimanvanah shucheen avahasan iva

Ashradhadanashchai bhavet vinasham upagachhati…. ….Mahabharata Shanti parva 102/17-20

“O Yudishthira, adhrma does not fructify immediately just as a seed sown in the earth would do! However, it burns the roots (parents!) as well as the branches (kith and kin, including offspring!) ultimately. A sinner, by amassing wealth by dint of his sinful activities feels overjoyed and commits more sinful activities (to earn more wealth)! On prospering thus through his adharma he thinks that nothing like dharma exists at all and even makes a fun of pious people, who are poor because of their piety. However, the sinner gets destroyed ultimately (together with his parents and offspring)”.

I do not think anything more pertinent and relevant could have been said by anybody else for these naksahtra-scoohis and naakshtraas and nakshatra jeevis and their dharmacharyas! We have a LIVING EXAMPLE OF “the greatest Vedic astrologer” of the previous century, who had literally built a huge empire through “Vedic astrology” (nakshatra-soochi!) profession, books and magazines but died himself a miserable death; his wife became a pauper who had to beg from her offspring for her hand to mouth living (in spite of the fact that the “greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century” had foreseen “Rajya yogas” and “dhana yogas” in her horoscope and that is why he had married her)! All those “Vedic astrology” books and “magazines” are now being sold as waste paper and his offspring are fighting among themselves like Kilkenny cats for the spoils! Ill gotten is ill spent! And as per our shastras, there is nothing more ill gotten than what is “gotten” through being a ”brahmana-chandala” i.e. a “nakshatra-scoohi”, as has been proved above.

No Rashi has been mentioned at all in the Manusmriti or the Mbh or Arthashastra or Atri Samhita etc.:

Absence of Mesha etc. rashis at the time of the Manu is evident from the following shlokas about creation:

”kalam kala vibhakteeshchai nakshatrani grahas tatha

Saritah sagaran shailan samani vishamani chai” 1/24

“The creator created Time, kal, nakshatras, grahas, oceans and mountains etc...(but not Mesha etc. rashis!)”.

“Daive ratri ahanee varsham pravibhagastayoh punah

Ahas tatra udagayanam ratrih syat dakshinayanam” 1/67

“A year has two ayanas, Uttarayana is the day of gods and dakshinayana their night”.

It means the Creator had not created any Mesha etc. rashis by the time of the Manu though He had created naksahtras and grahas! Dimensions of Time also were in Ayanas and days etc. sans Mesha etc. Rashis.

Similarly, we do not find Mesha etc. rashis in the Mbh. nor in the Arthashastra of Chanakya but only nakshatras!

What is also noteworthy is that in all the admonishments of the Manu, the Atri Samhita and the Mbh or Gautama the Budha, “Vedic astrologers” have been addresses as “nakshatra-soochis” or “nakshatra jeevis” or “shamanas” or even “naakshatras”. It confirms the fact that prior to the advent of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, predictions in India were made on the basis of nakshatras (and not Mesha etc. Rashis!) vis-à-vis planets, as advocated by “Atharva Veda Parishishta” etc.---–but not any Veda or Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! Such “jyotishis” whom the AVP calls Atharvanas etc. were called nakshatra-jeevis by our shastras. And those very naakshatra-jeeevis have been castigated by all the shastras as “brahmana-chandalas” etc.!

A nod to wise and….

I could quote hundreds of “pramanas” from the Vedas, Brahmanas, Upanishadas, Itihasas and Puranas and other shastras where the Hindus have been advised to believe in their efforts (and not in soothsayers!) for chaturvarga i.e. dharma, artha, kama and moksha. But I think that is belabouring the issue, and “Vedic astrologers” like the one who said that the Manusmriti permitted astrology, would say that my posts are “verbose”! Thus if these jyotishis are really wise, they will take this hint as more than sufficient and stop making fools in the name of Vedic astrology and also creating obstacles in streamlining the Vedic calendar!

Celebrating festivals/muhurtas on wrong days is literally killing our dharma ourselves!

“Darhma eva hato hantih dharmo rakshayati rakshitah

Tasmad dharmo na hantavyo, maa no dharmo hato avadheet” Manusmriti 8/15

“If you kill your dharma, it will kill you and if you protect it, it will protect you. As such, dharma has to be protected at all costs lest it kills us if we betray it for selfish motives”. And there is no better or worse way of killing/betraying one’s own dharma than by celebrating festivals on wrong days!

The net result of this mess known as Vedic astrology is that we are celebrating all our festivals etc. on wrong days like marriages in shdardapaksha and Pitra amavasya on the day of actual Dipavali and so on!

All I can do is to pray to God to save Hindu dhamra from ‘brahmana-chandalas” and their dharmacharyas and yogis and tantriks so that Hindus can start celebrating festivals and muhurtas on correct days!

With regards,

A K Kaul

Om Tat Sat Brahmarpanam Astu

March 17, 2009

Dear A K Kaul

It will be advisable to get your horoscope checked from a bonafied & professional Vedic Astrologer so as to ascertain what planets provoke these kind of thoughts in ur mind. A native who believes in astrology also has faith in Dharma, a native who is non believer of Astrology is also a non believer of Dharma. Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We execute our karma as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our birth.

Then what is the point of pointing & highlighting about Manav Dharma. For Manu, Dharma & Astrology go vis-a-vis. Manav is incomplete without Dharma & Astrology. Dharma, Karma, Kama & Moksha are integral part of Manu.

Astrology & Panchang go togather. Without Panchang astrology is incomplete & with out Astrology Panchang is incomplete. They move like two parallel tracks on which a train moves.

Astrology has various streams, and an astrologer chooses the stream in which he understands better & is comfortable with. Streams of astrology are varied. Palmistry, Nakshatra(KP) system, face reading, thumb reading, Nadi Shashtra, Samudrik Shashtra, Vedic Astrology, Numerology, Prashna Jyotish, and many more are part & parcel of astrology.

Astrology is a perfect science. it does not fails, it is the astrologer who fails to understand astrology in its correct form & gives wrong analysis. Astrology is not at fault, it is the astrologer who is at fault. No astrologer can also be perfect as astrologer is also human and God has never made Man as a perfect living being.

An astrologer always follows the devised science & goes by its results, but here the astrologer also fails in understanding & reading the effect of the system on the natives life, as the astrolger do not work on the actual result in doing research. This is the most sensitive area in astrology & because of his failure in doing proper research on the effects of planets & dashas on the native, astrology thus fails & people loosse hope & faith in astrology.

Astrological science is an ocean which is made up of just 9 planets & 12 bhavs. This is where it excells as a handful of planets & bhavs makes this science an ocean.

HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGER CELL +919867214103

jyotirved <jyotirvedjyotirved <jyotirvedTuesday, 17 March, 2009 6:13:03 PM "Vedic astrologers" read dharmashastras upside down!

Dear friends,

Namaskar!

A common question I am often asked is, â€œWhy are you against â€˜Vedic astrologyâ€™ and not against other predictive methods like palmistry, Tarot etc. etc. Do you believe in them"?. The answer is an emphatic no. Then why am I against â€œVedic astrologyâ€ alone?

â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and Vedic calendar have an inherent mutual conflict!

As is common knowledge by now, there is a direct conflict between Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashi based jyotisha, whether sayana or nirayana, and the real Vedic calendar, since there are no Mesha etc. rashis (nor Mangal, Shani etc. planets) but only Madhu, Madhava etc. months, tithi, nakshatras and Udgayana etc. phenomena in the Vedas, Brahnmanas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. whereas â€œVedic astrologyâ€ cannot survive without Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets. â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are imposing those very imaginary rashis -â€“zodiac means an imaginary â€œcircle of animals!â€---on the Hindu calendar dictating simultaneously that even if there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the

Vedas or the Vedanga jyotisha etc., we must celebrate all the Vedic, Pauranic and geographic/seasonal festivals like Uttarayana, Vasanta Navratra or Sharadiya Navratra etc. on days suggested by â€œLahiri jyotishisâ€ and not the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Puranas or even geographical phenomena etc.!

â€œVedic astrologersâ€ never quote the exact references in spite of repeated reminders!

To continue their opposition to the real Vedic calendar because of its conflict with â€œVedic astrologyâ€, these â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are claiming that predictive gimmicks through Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras which, according to them, are subsumed in Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis vis-Ã -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets have been advocated/permitted /sanctioned by our dharmashastras! Some moderators/owners of astrology forums even claim that the Atharva Veda has given results of being born in different nakshatras! Another "Vedic astrologer" says that "the sun went to meet the Bull" means the astrological sign Vrishaba as per the Vedas! As they are not quoting the relevant shlokas/mantras in support of their arguments, in spite of being

asked to do so repeatedly, they are liars and are obviously making a fool of everybody!

A â€œVedic astrologerâ€ had even claimed "The Manu Smriti is the oldest Dharmasashtra and the fact that it permitted astrology means that astrology was permitted from the beginning of the Hindu civilization. " But, as is the habit of these â€œVedic astrologersâ€, he also has not quoted any shloka in support of his â€œdeclarationâ€!

The facts of the case, however, are:

â€œNakshatra-jeevis i.e. jyotishis must be debarred from performing any religious ritesâ€--Manu

I request these "Vedic astrologers" to do some introspection after reading as to what the Manu has said actually about "nakshatra-jeevis" (jyotishis!) in shloka 162 of third adhyaya, and I quote:

"hasti go ashva ushtra damako NAKSHATRAIR YASHCHA JEEVATI,

pakshinam poshako yashchai, yudhacharyas tathaiva chai.."

This shloka in the Manusmriti is actually in the context about as to which people are to be debarred from performing diava and pitrya karyas i.e. yajnyas etc for gods and oblations etc. for the Manes, and the Manu has said unequivocally "Trainers of elephants, cows, horses; ANYONE WHO EARNS HIS LIVELIHOOD BY DINT OF NAKSHATRAS and one who puts birds into cages are not allowed to perform any daiva or pitra karya"

The Hindi translator of Kshemraj Shri Krishendas, Bombay, edition of the Manusmriti has translated the above shloka as follows, â€œhaathi, bail, ghoda aur oont â€“ in sabko sikhane wale aur JYOTISH SE JEEVIKA KARNE-WALEâ€”yeh sab shubha karya main varjit hainâ€. Is this the permission that the Manu is supposed to have granted?

The same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ who had said that the Manu had â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ had said further, "If Avtarji has not read what the Manu Smriti says about astrology he has no right to say that astrology is not sanctioned in the ancient past." It means, thus, that he, like all his counterparts, has read the Manusmriti upside down!

â€œOne must forget bhagya and only stick to purusharthaâ€- --Manu

The same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ had also said that the Manu has advised that a king must consult a jyotishi. However, again, he has not quoted any shloka in support of his argument and it appears that he is confusing, because of his Tamoguni budhi, the Manu with Varahamihira! It is the latter according to whom a king must definitenly have a "samvatsarika"! The Manu was not a fatalist. He was a scholar extraordinary with practical knowledge of statecraft besides the Vedas etc. and what he has actually advised the king to do, instead of consulting soothsayers,

is:

â€œbakavat chinatayet arthan simha vat chai prakramet

Vrika vat cha avalumpeta shashavat cha vinishpatetâ€ Manusmriti 7/106

i.e. "Like a kingfisher eager to hunt some fish in the river/sea/lake, a king must concentrate on increasing his wealth (a kingfisher does not consult soothsayers before pecking at the fish!). A king must jump on his enemy like a lion jumps on its prey (lions do not consult â€˜Vedic astrologersâ€™ before jumping on their preys). Like a wolf a king must kill his enemy even if it is hidden in a fort (No astrologer has as yet claimed that he was consulted by some wolf!). Like a hare, a king must know how to extricate himself from tricky situations (Does anybody know if any rabbit has consulted some jyotishi?)"

In 7/182-83, the Manu has said, "A king must wage a war in the month of Margasheersha or Phalguna or any other suitable period when he is sure of his victory by dint of the opponent king having got addicted to some bad habits etc.â€

Consulting fortune tellers is definitely a fad, a bad habit, an addiction and has been proscribed by shastras since it makes one very unsure of himself/herself and leaves him/her at the mercy of soothsayers, most of whom are liars and quite a few of whom call themselves "Vedic astrologers" these days. Example is better than precept and that example is: BJP was sent into wilderness as jyotishis had assured them that by advancing the elections, Shri A B Vajapayee would be the PM, come what may! Poor Vajpayeeji has all along been bedridden, after having lost his throne! No jyotishi had â€œforeseenâ€ that!

Regarding "bghagya versus purusharth", this is what the Manu has said,

Naatmanam avamanyeta parvabhir abhisamridhibhih

Aamrityoh shriyam anvishyet nainam manyeta durlabam,â€¦ (Manusmirit 4/137) i.e.

"If in spite of making efforts, one is not able to earn the desired amount of wealth, one must in no case feel himself/herself unfortunate but continue to make efforts till the end of his/her life, since it is not that difficult to earn wealth (by making proper efforts)"

The Manu has not advised that one must consult soothsayers to do some remedial measures or wear some gem to remove non-existent and imaginary kalasarpa doshas and ashtama shani and what not to get rid of penury!

The real crux of fate versus efforts has been described by the Manu in 7/205

Sarvam karmedam ayattam vidhane daiva manushye

tayor daivam achintyam tu manushe vidyete kriya

"What good or bad deeds have been done in our past births are in the hands of 'daiva'. What (good or bad deeds) we are doing now in this birth is up to us. Since what is past is past. It need not be pondered upon. But the present can certainly be taken care of (and as such, we should forget the past janmas and concentrate on good deeds in this janma---and certainly making a fool of the gullible public by making correct predictions from incorrect data is not a good deed at all, nor is it a â€œgood deedâ€ on the part of â€œclientsâ€ to run after soothsayers! ).

To remove any doubts further from the minds of astro-buffs, the Manu has defined purushartha as follows:

â€œalabdham chaiva lipsyet labdham rakshyet prayatnatah

Rakshitam vardhayet chaiva vridham paatreshu nikshipet

Etachchaturvidham vidyat purushartha prayojanam

Asya nityam anushthanam samyak kuryat atandritahâ€ 7/99-100

â€œOne must attempt to obtain what he/she has not obtained yet. He/she must preserve what he/she has already earned, and keep on increasing it further. After having increased it, he/she should utilize (invest) it properly

â€œThese are the four limbs/types of purushartha and one must always keep them in mind and act accordingly (and not waste his/her time and wealth and energy by running after nakshatra-soochis! )â€.

Bhishma also has castigated nakshatra-soochis!

Let us hear what Bhishma had to say about â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€

â€œahvayakah devalakah naakshatra gramayajakah

Ete brahmana chandalah maha-pathika panchakahâ€â€¦.. Shanti Parva 76/6

i.e. â€œCourt bailiffs, pujaris of temples for the sake of money, those who study naksahtras (jyotishis!)â€¦ are chandalas even if they are Brahmins (and must be excluded from daiva and pitrya karya)â€.

Bhishma also did not believe in bhagya (and therefore nakshatra-soochis! ) but in purushartha:

Let us now hear Bhishmaâ€™s views about bhagya versus purushartha:

â€œutthanenna sada putra prayatetha yudishthira

Na hi utthanam rite daivam rajnyam artham prasadayetâ€ Rajdharmanushasana parva 65/14

â€œDear son Yudishthira, you must always rely on your own efforts since without your own efforts there is no question of any daiva (bhagya) bestowing any riches on any kingâ€

â€œvipannam vai samarambhe santapam ma sma vai krithah

Ghattasvaiva sadaatmanam rajnyam eva paro nayahâ€ Rajadharmanushasana parva 65/16

â€œIf you are besieged by miseries, do not feel despondent. To struggle with adversities (without consulting soothsayers! ) is the only way out for a king to come out of those adversities.â€

Vishnugugupta Kautileeya a.k.a. Chanakya has no good words for nakshatra-soochis and astro-buffs!

The world famous statesman Chanakya (4th century BCE ), in his Arthashastra, has dissuaded a king about consulting nakshatra-soochis in no uncertain terms:

â€œnakshatram ati prichhantam baalo artham ati vartate

Artho hyarthasya nakshatram kim karishyanti tarakahâ€

i.e. â€œ The objective (artha) eludes the foolish man (baalam) who enquires too much from the stars. The objective should be the nakshatra of the objective, of what avail are the starsâ€. We must not forget that Chankya destroyed the last king of Nanda-Vamsha, who was an astro-buff. It means thus that to destroy a powerful enemy you have to shun and not embrace nakshatra-jeevis!

Vasishtha Muni, the preceptor of Bhagwan Rama, also has chided astro-buffs and jyotishis:

Yoga-Vasishtha Maharamayana has nothing but sarcasm for jyotisha, jyotishis and also their clients in no uncertain terms when he has said:

â€œkaal vidbhir vinirneetaa yasyasti chira jeevita,

sa ched jeevati sanchhin shiras tad daivam uttamam

kaal vidbhir vinirneetam pandityam yasya raghava

anadyapita vidyash-ched vidvan tad daivam uttamamaâ€ Mumukshu vyavhar prakran 8/18-19

â€œDestiny may be said to be efficacious/ effective, if some one for whom the jyotishis (fortune tellers) had predicted a long life survives even after he has been beheaded.

â€œDestiny may be said to be something to be reckoned with, if some one for whom jyotishis had predicted great scholarship becomes a scholar without reading even a single alphabet himself/herselfâ€

It is clear that after the nakshatra and/or utpata-soochaka works like â€œAtharva-Veda Parishishtaâ€ or â€œParashara Samhitaâ€ etc. had been spawned, the real well wishers of Bharatavarsha like the Manu, Bhishma and Vasishtha and even Vishnugupta Kautileeya etc. had warned the Hindus in no uncertain terms about the pernicious effects of running after â€œnakshatra soochisâ€ who are actually "chandalas" even if they are Brahmins!

Gautama the Budha also has warned about omen-mongers in no uncertain terms:

â€œSome brahmanas and shramanas earn their livelihood by taking to beastly professions and eating food brought to them out of fear; the say, â€˜there will be a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse, occultation of the stars, the sun and the moon will move in the correct direction, the nakshatras will move in the correct path, in the incorrect path, there will be precipitation of meteors, burning of the cardinal direction, earthquakes, roar of heavenly war drums, the sun, the moon and the stars will rise and set wrongly producing wide distress among all beings etc. (Just do not be taken in by their pranks!)â€ Digha nikaya, Vol I, p 68, Pali Text Book Society

All the dharmashastras are against nakshtra-schoochis/ jeevis:

It is not only the Manusmriti and the Mbh or Yogavasishtha but every dharmashastra has castigated vociferously such â€œbrahaman chandalasâ€

Let us see what Atri Samhita 383-385 has to say

â€œjyotirvido hyatharvanah keerah pauran-pathakah

Shradhe yajnye mahadane na varneeyah kadachanai

Shradancha pitaram gauram danam chaiva tu nishphalam

Yajnye cha parihanih syat tasmat tan parivarjayet

Aavkashchitrakarash chai vaidyo nakshatra pathakah

Chatur vipra na pujyante brihaspati samah yadi

â€œA JYOTISHI, AN ATHARVANA, ONE WHO NARRATES PURANAS FOR A LIVELIHOOD, ALL THESE ARE TO BE AVOIDED IN A SHRADHA AS WELL AS A YAJNYA AT ALL COSTS. IF THESE PEOPLE DO PARTICIPATE IN SHRADHAS ETC . ALL SUCH SHRADAS AND ANY CHARITIES TO THEM WILL BE NISHPHALA I.E. FRUITLESS. THEY WILL DO MAXIM HARM TO ANY YAJNYA IN WHICH THEY PARTICIPATE. THEY MUST THEREFORE BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTSâ€¦â€¦A BRAHMIN WHO IS A NAKSHATRA PATHAKA I.E. ONE WHO READS NAKSHATRAS OF HIS CLIENTS HAS TO BE SHUNNED AND AVOIDED EVEN IF HE IS AS LEARNED AS BRIHASPATI, THE PRECEPTOR OF GODS â€.

It is worthwhile to note that the â€œAtharva Veda Parishishitaâ€ has advised to utilize the services of an Atharvana without fail whereas Atri Rishi has advised that an Atharvana, even if he is as well-read and intelligent as Brihaspati, has to be shunned like a â€œchandalaâ€

I wonder if there can be anything more damaging/castigatin g for nakshatra-soochis- --who call themselves â€œVedic astrologersâ€ these days---than Atriâ€™s admonishments!

Vridha vasishtha has called nakshtra soochis as papamoortih i.e. sin personified:

Nakshatra soochee kila papa-roopo, heyah sada sudharma krityeâ€¦â€¦. Vridha-Vasishta

A nakshatra soochi is sin personified and must be avoided at all costs in any good deed..

Was Varahamihira really a well-wisher of the Hindus or of the Greeks/Ionians, since he called the latter â€œmlechhasâ€ but wanted the Hindus to worship them as Rishis because they knew astrolatory?

As everybody knows, Varahamihira, whom some â€œVedic astrologersâ€ address as â€œParama pujyaâ€---i.e. the â€œMost worshipful oneâ€, has said in his Brihat Samhita 2/15

Mlechhah hi yavanas teshu samyak shastram idam sthitam

Rishi vat te-api pujyante, kim punar daiva-vid dvijah

â€Yavanas (Greeks and/or Ionians) are certainly mlechhas actually but as they know the shastra of astrology (predictive gimmicks!) they are worshipped like Rishisâ€¦â€. However, all our shastras, as seen above, advise that even if a highly well read Brahmin like Brihaspati is a nakshatra-soochi/ jeevi i.e. a jyotishi, he must be shunned like a chandala from all the religious functions!

Since it is those very â€œdoctrinesâ€ that have been castigated by our Rishis that were later propagated/advocate d by Varahimihira on the shoulders of Sphujidwajaâ€™s Yavana Jatakam and Maya the mlechhaâ€™s Surya Sidhanta etc., we have to be extremely wary about the intentions of that Varahamihira and todayâ€™s â€œVamadevasâ€ and â€œParasharasâ€ who tell us that predictive gimmicks are â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and who call those gimmicks as â€œVedanga Jyotishaâ€ which actually is a mathematical work for calculating tithi etc.

Since all the sages like the Manu, Vasishtha, Chanakya and even Gautama the Budha were of a pre-Varahamihira era, who was around in about 6th century AD, it means Varahamihira had either not read any of those admonishments- --nay even our dharma-shastras- --or ignored them deliberately. Most probably, it must be the latter, since that is what todayâ€™s â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are doing! It could also be that he read dharmashastras upside down, exactly like todayâ€™s â€œVedic astrologersâ€ who claim that the Manu had permitted astrology. It is, therefore, extremely doubtful that Varahamihira was a well-wisher of the Hindus, as he appears to have misguided them about his prowess of predictive gimmicks on the basis

of a monstrous astronomical work viz. the Surya Sidhanta and advised them to treat even mlechhas as Rishis if they knew astrolatory!

It is worthwhile to note that the same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ who says that the Manu has â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ goes on parroting that Varahamihira belonged to an era of 6th century BCE instead of 6th century AD, but, as is the habit of â€œVedic astrologersâ€, he is not advancing any proofs for the same either!

Actually, some good for nothing Greek astronomer masqueraded as Maya, the father-in-law of famous Rakshasa king Ravana, at the fag end of Satya-yuga (sic!) and some â€œmlechhasâ€ are masquerading today as â€œVamadevasâ€, all teaching us â€œVedic astrologyâ€ (sic!). You can draw your own conclusions about Varahamihira as well as todayâ€™s â€œVamadevasâ€ and â€œParasharasâ€ whose only aim is thus to derail the real Vedic calendar through â€œVedic astrologyâ€! That also reminds me that some jyotishis are sort of worshipping even Ravana for the astrological knowledge he is supposed to have bequeathed through his Ravana Samhita etc. works! I have seen that work also, and like Brihat Parashari, is the worst possible figment of imagination!

Common-sense also demands to shun being a â€œkapurushaâ€ (a fatalist eunuch!)

I remember having read, several decades back, a dialogue---perhaps- -in Panchatantra. A shishya, after having met with failures in spite of his efforts, was disappointed and said to his Guru, â€œbhagyam phalati sarvatra, na vidya na chai paurushamâ€ i.e. â€œIt is only fate and neither efforts nor education etc., that work/frucitfy everywhere in case of a human beingâ€. The Guru, however, retorted,

â€œudyoginam purusha simham upaiti lakshmi, daivena deyam iti kapurusha vadantiâ€---

â€œOnly someone who acts like a lion i.e. one who makes Herculean efforts in spite of having met with failures, deserves the blessings of Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth. On the other hand, â€˜bhagya will do everythingâ€™ is a pet dialogue of eunuchsâ€. That is also what Bhagwan Krishna advised Arjuna in the Gita:

â€œklaibyam ma sma gamah parthai naitat tvayi upapadyete

Kshyudram hridaya daurbalyam tektvotishtha parantapaiâ€

â€œO Arjuna, donâ€™t act like a eunuch! It does not behove you! Shake off your sloth and weak heartedness and get up and fight â€“ actâ€ Bhagwan Krishna did not ask Arjuna to consult any soothsayer nor did He advise Arjuna to â€œleave everything to your fateâ€. We also must, therefore, wake up and make every effort ourselves to save the Vedic calendar from the clutches of â€œVedic astrologersâ€, instead of expecting some miracles!

â€œTry, try againâ€

I also remember having read in my school days a REAL STORY of some king, perhaps Rana Sanga of Rajasthanâ€”I am not sure, that after fleeing from his opponents, he was hiding in a dilapidated house in ruins and was in utter frustration. There he saw a spider crawling towards its web but the â€˜threadâ€™ through which it was crawling snapped and it fell to the ground. The spider kept on trying again and again and it is said that it succeeded in going into its web after an eighth attempt. The king was amazed on the tenacity of the spider and got an inspiration, â€˜Try, try againâ€™ from that creature! Instead of running to some jyotishi, like todayâ€™s politicians, he made several attempts and ultimately succeeded in vanquishing his enemy. So if we really want to succeed in our efforts

to streamline the Vedic calendar, the first thing we have to do is to shun â€œbrrahmana-chandalasâ€ .

Are our dharmacharyas aware of the damage that is being done to the nation by â€œVedic jyotishâ€?

In a nutshell, all our shastras and common sense are against any sort of indulging in â€œbhavishya-darshanâ€ especially as it is the greatest obstacle in streamlining the Hindu calendar. It is only â€œVedic astrologersâ€ who are putting the cart before the horse by trying to convey that our shastras have â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ from the â€œbeginning of Hindu civilizationâ€ !

Since these â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are not quoting any exact references in support of their arguments, it appears that they are completely enveloped in Tamoguni budhi and therefore interpreting every shastra in quite an opposite manner!

What is all the more surprising is that our dharmacharyas and jagadgurus and â€œhis holiness of art of one thing or the otherâ€ etc. etc. are encouraging these â€œbrahmana chandalasâ€ in their anti-Vedic activities in the name of â€œVedic astrologyâ€!

May be even those dharmacharyas etc. etc. are reading all the shastras upside down, since the Manu has advised especially Vanaprasthis, which naturally includes Sanyasis and dharmacharyas and jagadgurus etc. etc., to desist from being nakshatra soochis, in no uncertain terms:

â€œna chaa utpata nimitabyam na nakshatranga vidyaya

Na anushasana vadabyam bikshyam lipset karhichit Manusmriti 6/50

â€œA Vanaprasthi should never earn his â€˜bikshaâ€™ (a mendicantâ€™s livelihood) either by declaring the results of utpatas i.e. omens like falling of meteors or flying of swallows etc. etc.; face reading etc. nor by nakshatra vidya i.e. by checking the horoscopes of othersâ€¦..â€

I, therefore, request these dharmacharyas and â€œhis holinessesâ€ and yogis and tantriks galore to wake up to such travesty of dharmashastras and instead of reading them upside down, they must streamline the real Vedic calendar in accordance with the Vedic lore and not â€œLahiri-loreâ€ or â€œRamana-loreâ€ or â€œChandra-Hair- loreâ€ etc.

A friendly advice to all the â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€ and â€œnakshatra-jeevisâ€ who call themselves Vedic astrologers these days:

Since most of the â€œVedic astrologersâ€ and their â€œacharyasâ€ are prospering by leaps and bounds at the cost of the real Vedic calendar by such anti-Vedic activities as â€œVedic astrologyâ€ they feel that they are doing the right thing and they must continue to do so, as instead of losing anything, they are gaining name and fame and of course, wealth! But this is what Bhishma has said about such nouveau riche people.

Na adharmash-charito rajan sadyah phalati gaurivaa

Moolani chai prashakhaschai dahan samdhigachhati

Papena karmana vittam labdva papah prahrishyeti

Sa vardamanah steyena papah pape prasajyete

Na dharmo asteetimanvanah shucheen avahasan iva

Ashradhadanashchai bhavet vinasham upagachhatiâ€¦. â€¦.Mahabharata Shanti parva 102/17-20

â€œO Yudishthira, adhrma does not fructify immediately just as a seed sown in the earth would do! However, it burns the roots (parents!) as well as the branches (kith and kin, including offspring!) ultimately. A sinner, by amassing wealth by dint of his sinful activities feels overjoyed and commits more sinful activities (to earn more wealth)! On prospering thus through his adharma he thinks that nothing like dharma exists at all and even makes a fun of pious people, who are poor because of their piety. However, the sinner gets destroyed ultimately (together with his parents and offspring)â€.

I do not think anything more pertinent and relevant could have been said by anybody else for these naksahtra-scoohis and naakshtraas and nakshatra jeevis and their dharmacharyas! We have a LIVING EXAMPLE OF â€œthe greatest Vedic astrologerâ€ of the previous century, who had literally built a huge empire through â€œVedic astrologyâ€ (nakshatra-soochi! ) profession, books and magazines but died himself a miserable death; his wife became a pauper who had to beg from her offspring for her hand to mouth living (in spite of the fact that the â€œgreatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth centuryâ€ had foreseen â€œRajya yogasâ€ and â€œdhana yogasâ€ in her horoscope and that is why he had married her)! All those â€œVedic astrologyâ€ books and â€œmagazinesâ€ are now being sold as waste paper and his offspring are fighting among

themselves like Kilkenny cats for the spoils! Ill gotten is ill spent! And as per our shastras, there is nothing more ill gotten than what is â€œgottenâ€ through being a â€brahmana-chandalaâ€ i.e. a â€œnakshatra-scoohiâ€ , as has been proved above..

No Rashi has been mentioned at all in the Manusmriti or the Mbh or Arthashastra or Atri Samhita etc.:

Absence of Mesha etc. rashis at the time of the Manu is evident from the following shlokas about creation:

â€kalam kala vibhakteeshchai nakshatrani grahas tatha

Saritah sagaran shailan samani vishamani chaiâ€ 1/24

â€œThe creator created Time, kal, nakshatras, grahas, oceans and mountains etc....(but not Mesha etc. rashis!)â€.

â€œDaive ratri ahanee varsham pravibhagastayoh punah

Ahas tatra udagayanam ratrih syat dakshinayanamâ€ 1/67

â€œA year has two ayanas, Uttarayana is the day of gods and dakshinayana their nightâ€.

It means the Creator had not created any Mesha etc. rashis by the time of the Manu though He had created naksahtras and grahas! Dimensions of Time also were in Ayanas and days etc. sans Mesha etc. Rashis.

Similarly, we do not find Mesha etc. rashis in the Mbh. nor in the Arthashastra of Chanakya but only nakshatras!

What is also noteworthy is that in all the admonishments of the Manu, the Atri Samhita and the Mbh or Gautama the Budha, â€œVedic astrologersâ€ have been addresses as â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€ or â€œnakshatra jeevisâ€ or â€œshamanasâ€ or even â€œnaakshatrasâ€. It confirms the fact that prior to the advent of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, predictions in India were made on the basis of nakshatras (and not Mesha etc. Rashis!) vis-Ã -vis planets, as advocated by â€œAtharva Veda Parishishtaâ€ etc.---â€“but not any Veda or Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! Such â€œjyotishisâ€ whom the AVP calls Atharvanas etc. were called nakshatra-jeevis by our shastras. And those very naakshatra-jeeevis have been castigated by all the shastras as â€œbrahmana-chandalasâ€ etc.!

A nod to wise andâ€¦.

I could quote hundreds of â€œpramanasâ€ from the Vedas, Brahmanas, Upanishadas, Itihasas and Puranas and other shastras where the Hindus have been advised to believe in their efforts (and not in soothsayers! ) for chaturvarga i.e. dharma, artha, kama and moksha. But I think that is belabouring the issue, and â€œVedic astrologersâ€ like the one who said that the Manusmriti permitted astrology, would say that my posts are â€œverboseâ€! Thus if these jyotishis are really wise, they will take this hint as more than sufficient and stop making fools in the name of Vedic astrology and also creating obstacles in streamlining the Vedic calendar!

Celebrating festivals/muhurtas on wrong days is literally killing our dharma ourselves!

â€œDarhma eva hato hantih dharmo rakshayati rakshitah

Tasmad dharmo na hantavyo, maa no dharmo hato avadheetâ€ Manusmriti 8/15

â€œIf you kill your dharma, it will kill you and if you protect it, it will protect you. As such, dharma has to be protected at all costs lest it kills us if we betray it for selfish motivesâ€. And there is no better or worse way of killing/betraying oneâ€™s own dharma than by celebrating festivals on wrong days!

The net result of this mess known as Vedic astrology is that we are celebrating all our festivals etc. on wrong days like marriages in shdardapaksha and Pitra amavasya on the day of actual Dipavali and so on!

All I can do is to pray to God to save Hindu dhamra from â€˜brahmana-chandalasâ€ and their dharmacharyas and yogis and tantriks so that Hindus can start celebrating festivals and muhurtas on correct days!

With regards,

A K Kaul

Om Tat Sat Brahmarpanam Astu

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

March 19, 2009

Dear Nathani ji,

Namaskar,

We in the forum received your msg. after a very long time. Thanks for

reappearing.

I will like to draw your kind attention on my msg dated 2-10-08. Your

observation on some points are still awaited. If you are really a Vedic

astrologer then why are you shying in proper interaction on astrology? I am

not asking you to stop your business, as I have intimated you earlier that you

have every right to exploit ignorant. But if you are claiming that astrology is

a science or vedic then you must have some argument in support of it except

mindset or echoing some useless sentences. Because these (at least our) forums

are meant for interaction and exchange of views. In Primitive age too, our sages

never tried to skip any shastrath, then why are you afraid, because you have not

formulated the principles then where is the necessity for linking your self with

these principles. In science every research is always under the lens and open

for discussion. I hope you will like to read my original book on line in Google

book library.

Yes, How you can say that only a believer in astrology can believe in Dharm? So

do you mean to say that if I am not believing astrology then I am adharmik. Am I

exploiting the ignorance of simple people or I am I doing some work against the

law of the land or religion? Or is in your views those ignorant persons are

religious who are completely confused and lost their selfconfidence and sitting

in front of some astrologer for socalled peeping in the future and trying to

befool almighty by wearing some gem etc. and involved in all sort of

anti-social activities.

Shri Kaul ji will certainly offer his comments on your msg.

Hope you will not take my msg as personally because I am only interested in

academic interaction and my msg is also in the same tune.

Hope to receive your comments

Thanking you,

Yours truly,

Sanat.

PS: Welcome to all new members and I hope they may have gone through my blog

" Astrology a science or myth " in file section. I invite everyone to share

their opinion, views, stand, comments etc. on any point raised in the blog or in

various earlier msgs. Their msgs. will not be moderated as this forum is open to

all for sharing the academic views and members will themselves maintain the

dignity of the forum.

, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani "

<haresh1405 wrote:

>

> Dear A K Kaul

>

> It will be advisable to get your horoscope checkedÂ from a bonafied &

professional Vedic Astrologer so as to ascertain what planets provoke these kind

of thoughts in ur mind. A native who believes inÂ astrology Â also has faith in

Dharma, a native who is non believer ofÂ Astrology is also a non believer

ofÂ Dharma. Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We

execute our karma as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our

birth.

>

> Then what is the point of pointing & Â highlightingÂ about Manav Dharma.

ForÂ Manu, Dharma & Astrology go vis-a-vis. Manav is incomplete without Dharma &

Astrology. Dharma, Karma,Â Kama & Moksha are integral part of Manu.

>

> Astrology & Panchang go togather. Without Panchang astrology is incomplete &

with out Astrology Panchang is incomplete. They move like two parallel tracks on

which a train moves.

>

> Astrology has various streams, and an astrologer chooses the stream in which

he understands better & is comfortable with. Streams of astrology are varied.

Palmistry, Nakshatra(KP) system, face reading, thumb reading, Nadi Shashtra,

Samudrik Shashtra, Vedic Astrology, Numerology, Prashna Jyotish, and many more

are part & parcel of astrology.

>

> Astrology is aÂ perfect science. it does not fails, it is the astrologer who

fails to understand astrology in its correct form & gives wrong analysis.

Astrology is notÂ at fault, it is the astrologer who is at fault. No astrologer

can alsoÂ be perfect as astrologer is also humanÂ and God has never made Man as

a perfect living being.

>

> An astrologer always follows the devised science & goesÂ by its results, but

here the astrologer also fails in understanding & readingÂ the effect of the

system onÂ the nativesÂ life, as the astrolger doÂ not work on theÂ actual

result in doing research. ThisÂ is the most sensitive area in astrology &

because of his failure in doing proper research on the effects of planets &

dashas on the native, astrology thus fails & people loosse hope & faith in

astrology.

>

> Astrological science is an ocean which is made up of just 9 planets & 12

bhavs. This is where it excells as a handful of planets & bhavs makes this

science an ocean.

> Â

> HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGERÂ CELL +919867214103

> Â

>

> ________________________________

> jyotirved <jyotirved

> Tuesday, 17 March, 2009 6:13:03 PM

> " Vedic astrologers " read dharmashastras upside

down!

>

> Â

> Dear friends,

> Namaskar!

> A common question I am often asked is, â€œWhy are you against â€˜Vedic

astrologyâ€™Â and not against other predictive methods like palmistry, Tarot

etc. etc.Â Do you believe in them " ?.Â The answer isÂ an emphatic no. Then why

am I against â€œVedic astrologyâ€ alone?

> â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and Vedic calendar have an inherent mutual conflict!

> As is common knowledge by now, there is a direct conflict between Mesha,

Vrisha Â etc. rashi based jyotisha, whether sayana or nirayana,Â and the real

Vedic calendar, since there are no Mesha etc. rashis (nor Mangal, Shani etc.

planets) but only Madhu, Madhava etc.. months, tithi, nakshatras and Udgayana

etc. phenomena in the Vedas,Â Brahnmanas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. whereas

â€œVedic astrologyâ€ cannot survive without Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.

planets.Â â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are imposing those very imaginary rashis

-â€ " zodiac means an imaginary â€œcircle of animals!â€---on the Hindu calendar

dictating simultaneously that even if there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the

Vedas or the Vedanga jyotisha etc., we must celebrate all the Vedic, Pauranic

andgeographic/seasonal festivals like Uttarayana, Vasanta Navratra or Sharadiya

Navratra etc. on days suggested by â€œLahiri jyotishisâ€ and not the Vedanga

Jyotisha or the Puranas or even

> geographical phenomena etc.!

> â€œVedic astrologersâ€ never quote the exact references in spite of repeated

reminders!

> To continue their opposition to the real Vedic calendar because of its

conflict with â€œVedic astrologyâ€, these â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are claiming

that predictive gimmicks through Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras which,

according to them, are subsumed in Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis vis-Ã -vis Mangal,

Shani etc. planets have been advocated/permitted /sanctioned by our

dharmashastras! Some moderators/owners of astrology forums even claim that the

Atharva Veda has given results of being born in different nakshatras!Â Another

" Vedic astrologer " says thatÂ " the sun went to meet the Bull " means the

astrological sign VrishabaÂ as per theÂ Vedas!Â As they are not quoting the

relevant shlokas/mantras in support of their arguments, in spite of being asked

to do so repeatedly, they are liars and are obviously making a fool of

everybody!

> A â€œVedic astrologerâ€ had even claimed " The Manu Smriti is the oldest

Dharmasashtra and the fact that it permitted astrology means that astrology was

permitted from the beginning of the Hindu civilization. " Â But, as is the habit

of these â€œVedic astrologersâ€, he also has not quoted any shloka in support

of his â€œdeclarationâ€!

> The facts of the case, however, are:

> â€œNakshatra-jeevis i.e. jyotishis must be debarred from performing any

religious ritesâ€--Manu

> Â I request these " Vedic astrologers " to do some introspection after reading

as to what the Manu has said actually about " nakshatra-jeevis " (jyotishis!) in

shloka 162 of third adhyaya, and I quote:

> " hasti go ashva ushtra damako NAKSHATRAIR YASHCHA JEEVATI,

> pakshinam poshako yashchai, yudhacharyas tathaiva chai.. "

> Â This shloka in the Manusmriti is actually in the context about as to which

people are to be debarred from performing diava and pitrya karyas i.e. yajnyas

etc for gods and oblations etc. for the Manes, andÂ the Manu has said

unequivocally " Trainers of elephants, cows, horses; ANYONE WHO EARNS HIS

LIVELIHOOD BY DINT OF NAKSHATRAS and one who puts birds into cages are not

allowed to perform any daiva or pitra karya "

> The Hindi translator of Kshemraj Shri Krishendas, Bombay, edition of the

Manusmriti has translated the above shloka as follows, â€œhaathi, bail, ghoda

aur oont â€ " in sabko sikhane wale aur JYOTISH SE JEEVIKA KARNE-WALEâ€ " yeh sab

shubha karya main varjit hainâ€.Â Â Is this the permission that the Manu is

supposed to have granted?

> Â The same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ who had said that the Manu had â€œpermitted

astrologyâ€ had said further, " If Avtarji has not read what the Manu Smriti

says about astrology he has no right to say that astrology is not sanctioned in

the ancient past. " Â Â ItÂ means, thus, that he, like all his counterparts,Â has

read the Manusmriti upside down!

> â€œOne must forget bhagya and only stick to purusharthaâ€- --Manu

> The same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ had also said that the Manu has advised that a

king must consult a jyotishi.Â However, again, he has not quoted any shloka in

support of his argumentand it appears that he is confusing, because of his

Tamoguni budhi, Â the Manu with Varahamihira! It is the latter according to whom

a king must definitenly have a " samvatsarika " ! The Manu was not a fatalist.Â He

was a scholar extraordinarywith Â practical knowledge of statecraftÂ besides the

Vedas etc. andÂ what he has actually advised the king to do, instead of

consulting soothsayers, is:

> â€œbakavat chinatayet arthan simha vat chai prakramet

> Vrika vat cha avalumpeta shashavat cha vinishpatetâ€Â Â Manusmriti 7/106

> i.e. " Like a kingfisher eager to hunt some fish in the river/sea/lake, a king

must concentrate on increasing his wealth (a kingfisher does not consult

soothsayers before pecking at the fish!).Â A king must jump on his enemy like a

lion jumps on its prey (lions do not consult â€˜Vedic astrologersâ€™ before

jumping on their preys).Â Like a wolf a king must kill his enemy even if it is

hidden in a fort (No astrologer has as yet claimed that he was consulted by some

wolf!)..Â Like a hare, a king must know how to extricate himself from tricky

situations (Does anybody know if any rabbit has consulted some jyotishi?) " Â

> Â In 7/182-83, the Manu has said, " A king must wage a war in the month of

Margasheersha or Phalguna or any other suitable period when he is sure of his

victory by dint of the opponent king having got addicted to some bad habits

etc.â€

> ConsultingÂ fortune tellersÂ is definitely aÂ fad, a bad habit, an

addictionÂ andÂ has been proscribed by shastras since it makes one very unsure

of himself/herself and leaves him/her at the mercy of soothsayers, most of whom

are liars and quite a few ofÂ whom call themselves " Vedic astrologers " these

days.Â Example is better than precept and that example is: BJP was sent into

wilderness as jyotishis had assured them that by advancing the elections, Shri A

B Vajapayee would be the PM, come what may!Â Poor Vajpayeeji has all along been

bedridden, after having lost his throne!Â No jyotishi had â€œforeseenâ€ that!

> Regarding " bghagya versus purusharth " , this is what the Manu has said,

> Naatmanam avamanyeta parvabhir abhisamridhibhih

> Aamrityoh shriyam anvishyet nainam manyeta durlabam,â€¦ (Manusmirit 4/137)

i.e.

> Â " If in spite of making efforts, one is not able to earn the desired amount

of wealth, one must in no case feel himself/herself unfortunate but continue to

make efforts till the end of his/her life, since it is not that difficult to

earn wealth (by making proper efforts) " Â Â

> The Manu has not advised that one must consult soothsayers to do some remedial

measuresÂ or wear some gem to remove non-existent and imaginary kalasarpa

doshasÂ and ashtama shani and what not to get rid ofÂ penury!

> The real crux of fate versus efforts has been described by the Manu in 7/205

> Sarvam karmedam ayattam vidhane daiva manushye

> tayor daivam achintyam tu manushe vidyete kriya

> Â " What good or bad deeds have been done in our past births are in the hands

of 'daiva'.Â What (good or bad deeds) we are doing now in this birth is up to

us.Â Since what is past is past. It need not be pondered upon.Â But the

present can certainly be taken care of (and as such, we should forget the past

janmas and concentrate on good deeds in this janma---and certainly making a fool

of the gullible public by making correct predictions from incorrect data is not

a good deed at all, nor is it a â€œgood deedâ€ on the part of â€œclientsâ€ to

run after soothsayers! ).

> To remove any doubts further from the minds of astro-buffs, the Manu has

defined purushartha as follows:

> â€œalabdham chaiva lipsyet labdham rakshyet prayatnatah

> Rakshitam vardhayet chaiva vridham paatreshu nikshipet

> Etachchaturvidham vidyat purushartha prayojanam

> Asya nityam anushthanam samyak kuryat atandritahâ€ 7/99-100

> â€œOne must attempt to obtain what he/she has not obtained yet.Â He/she must

preserve what he/she has already earned, and keep on increasing it further.Â

After having increased it, he/she should utilize (invest) it properly

> â€œThese are the four limbs/types of purushartha and one must always keep them

in mind and act accordingly (and not waste his/her time and wealth and energy by

running after nakshatra-soochis! )â€.

> Bhishma also has castigated nakshatra-soochis!

> Let us hear what Bhishma had to say about â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€

> â€œahvayakah devalakah naakshatra gramayajakah

> Ete brahmana chandalah maha-pathika panchakahâ€â€¦.. Shanti Parva 76/6

> i.e. â€œCourt bailiffs, pujaris of temples for the sake of money, those who

study naksahtras (jyotishis!)â€¦ are chandalas even if they are Brahmins (and

must be excluded from daiva and pitrya karya)â€.

> Bhishma also did not believe in bhagya (and therefore nakshatra-soochis! ) but

in purushartha:Â Â

> Let us now hear Bhishmaâ€™s views about bhagya versus purushartha:

> â€œutthanenna sada putra prayatetha yudishthira

> Na hi utthanam rite daivam rajnyam artham prasadayetâ€ Â Rajdharmanushasana

parva 65/14

> â€œDear son Yudishthira, you must always rely on your own efforts since

without your own efforts there is no question of any daiva (bhagya) bestowing

any riches on any kingâ€

> â€œvipannam vai samarambhe santapam ma sma vai krithah

> Ghattasvaiva sadaatmanam rajnyam eva paro nayahâ€ Â Rajadharmanushasana parva

65/16

> â€œIf you are besieged by miseries, do not feel despondent.Â To struggle with

adversities (without consulting soothsayers! ) is the only way out for a king to

come out of those adversities.â€

> Vishnugugupta Kautileeya a.k.a. Chanakya has no good words for

nakshatra-soochis and astro-buffs!

> Â The world famous statesman Chanakya (4th century BCE ), in his Arthashastra,

has dissuaded a king about consulting nakshatra-soochis in no uncertain terms:

> Â â€œnakshatram ati prichhantam baalo artham ati vartate

> Artho hyarthasya nakshatram kim karishyanti tarakahâ€

> Â i.e. â€œ The objective (artha) eludes the foolish man (baalam) who enquires

too much from the stars.Â The objective should be the nakshatra of the

objective, of what avail are the starsâ€.Â We must not forget that Chankya

destroyed the last king of Nanda-Vamsha, who was an astro-buff. It means thus

that to destroy a powerful enemy you have to shun and not embrace

nakshatra-jeevis!

> Vasishtha Muni, the preceptor of Bhagwan Rama, also has chided astro-buffs and

jyotishis:

> Â Yoga-Vasishtha Maharamayana has nothing but sarcasm for jyotisha, jyotishis

and also their clients in no uncertain terms when he has said:

> â€œkaal vidbhir vinirneetaa yasyasti chira jeevita,

> sa ched jeevati sanchhin shiras tad daivam uttamam

> kaal vidbhir vinirneetam pandityam yasya raghava

> anadyapita vidyash-ched vidvan tad daivam uttamamaâ€ Â Mumukshu vyavhar

prakran 8/18-19

> â€œDestiny may be said to be efficacious/ effective, if some one for whom the

jyotishis (fortune tellers) had predicted a long life survives even after he has

been beheaded.

> â€œDestiny may be said to be something to be reckoned with, if some one for

whom jyotishis had predicted great scholarship becomes a scholar without reading

even a single alphabet himself/herselfâ€

> It is clear that after the nakshatra and/or utpata-soochaka works like

â€œAtharva-Veda Parishishtaâ€ or â€œParashara Samhitaâ€ etc. had been spawned,

the real well wishers of Bharatavarsha like the Manu, Bhishma and Vasishtha and

even Vishnugupta Kautileeya etc. had warned the Hindus in no uncertain terms

about the pernicious effects of running after â€œnakshatra soochisâ€who are

actually " chandalas " even if they are Brahmins!Â

> Gautama the Budha also has warned about omen-mongers in no uncertain terms:

> â€œSome brahmanas and shramanas earn their livelihood by taking to beastly

professions and eating food brought to them out of fear; the say, â€˜there will

be a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse, occultation of the stars, the sun and the

moon will move in the correct direction, the nakshatras will move in the correct

path, in the incorrect path, there will be precipitation of meteors,Â burning

of the cardinal direction, earthquakes, roar of heavenly war drums, the sun, the

moon and the stars will rise and set wrongly producing wide distress among all

beings etc.Â (Just do not be taken in by their pranks!)â€Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

Digha nikaya, Vol I, p 68, Pali Text Book Society

> All the dharmashastras are against nakshtra-schoochis/ jeevis:

> It is not only the Manusmriti and the Mbh or Yogavasishtha but every

dharmashastra has castigated vociferously such â€œbrahaman chandalasâ€

> Let us see what Atri Samhita 383-385 has to say

> â€œjyotirvido hyatharvanah keerah pauran-pathakah

> Shradhe yajnye mahadane na varneeyah kadachanai

> Shradancha pitaram gauram danam chaiva tu nishphalam

> Yajnye cha parihanih syat tasmat tan parivarjayet

> Aavkashchitrakarash chai vaidyo nakshatra pathakah

> Chatur vipra na pujyante brihaspati samah yadi

> â€œA JYOTISHI, AN ATHARVANA, ONE WHO NARRATES PURANAS FOR A LIVELIHOOD, ALL

THESE ARE TO BE AVOIDED IN A SHRADHA AS WELL AS A YAJNYA AT ALL COSTS.Â IF

THESE PEOPLE DO PARTICIPATE IN SHRADHAS ETC . ALL SUCH SHRADAS AND ANY CHARITIES

TO THEM WILL BE NISHPHALA I..E. FRUITLESS.Â Â THEY WILL DO MAXIM HARM TO ANY

YAJNYA IN WHICH THEY PARTICIPATE.Â THEY MUST THEREFORE BE AVOIDED AT ALL

COSTSâ€¦â€¦A BRAHMIN WHO IS A NAKSHATRA PATHAKA I.E. ONE WHO READS NAKSHATRAS OF

HIS CLIENTS HAS TO BE SHUNNED AND AVOIDED EVEN IF HE IS AS LEARNED AS

BRIHASPATI, THE PRECEPTOR OF GODS â€.

> It is worthwhile to note that the â€œAtharva Veda Parishishitaâ€ has advised

to utilize the services of an Atharvana without fail whereas Atri Rishi has

advised that an Atharvana, even if he is as well-read and intelligent as

Brihaspati, has to be shunned like a â€œchandalaâ€

> I wonder if there can be anything more damaging/castigatin g for

nakshatra-soochis- --who call themselves â€œVedic astrologersâ€ these

days---than Atriâ€™s admonishments!

> Vridha vasishtha has called nakshtra soochis as papamoortihi.e. sin

personified:

> Nakshatra soochee kila papa-roopo, heyah sada sudharma krityeâ€¦â€¦.

Vridha-Vasishta

> A nakshatra soochi is sin personified and must be avoided at all costs in any

good deed.Â

> Was Varahamihira really a well-wisher of the Hindus or of the Greeks/Ionians,

since he called the latter â€œmlechhasâ€ but wanted the Hindus to worship them

as RishisÂ because they knew astrolatory?

> As everybody knows, Varahamihira, whom some â€œVedic astrologersâ€ address as

â€œParama pujyaâ€---i.e. the â€œMost worshipful oneâ€, has said in his Brihat

Samhita 2/15

> Mlechhah hi yavanasteshu samyak shastram idam sthitam

> Rishi vat te-api pujyante, kim punarÂ daiva-vid dvijah

> â€Yavanas (Greeks and/or Ionians) are certainly mlechhas actually but as they

know the shastra of astrology (predictive gimmicks!) they are worshipped like

Rishisâ€¦â€. However, all our shastras, as seen above, advise that even if a

highly well read Brahmin like Brihaspati is a nakshatra-soochi/ jeevi i.e. a

jyotishi, he must be shunned like a chandala from all the religious functions!

> Since it is those very â€œdoctrinesâ€ that have been castigated by our Rishis

that were later propagated/advocate d by Varahimihira on the shoulders of

Sphujidwajaâ€™s Yavana Jatakam and Maya the mlechhaâ€™s Surya Sidhanta etc., we

have to be extremely wary about the intentions of that Varahamihira and

todayâ€™s â€œVamadevasâ€ and â€œParasharasâ€ who tell us that predictive

gimmicks are â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and who call those gimmicks as â€œVedanga

Jyotishaâ€ which actually is a mathematical work for calculating tithi etc.

> Since all the sages like the Manu, Vasishtha,Â Chanakya and even Gautama the

Budha were of a pre-Varahamihira era, who was around in about 6th century AD, it

means Varahamihira had either not read any of those admonishments- --nay even

our dharma-shastras- --or ignored them deliberately.Â Â Most probably, it must

be the latter, since that is what todayâ€™s â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are doing!

It could also be that he read dharmashastras upside down, exactly like todayâ€™s

â€œVedic astrologersâ€ who claim that the Manu had permitted astrology. It is,

therefore, extremely doubtful that VarahamihiraÂ was a well-wisher of the

Hindus, as he appears to have misguided them about his prowess of predictive

gimmicks on the basis of a monstrous astronomical work viz. the Surya Sidhanta

and advised them to treat even mlechhas as Rishis if they knew astrolatory!Â

> It is worthwhile to note that the same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ who says that

the Manu has â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ goes on parroting that Varahamihira

belonged to an era of 6th Â century BCE instead of 6th century AD, but, as is

the habit of â€œVedic astrologersâ€, he is not advancing any proofs for the

same either!

> Actually, some good for nothing Greek astronomer masqueraded as Maya, the

father-in-law of famous Rakshasa king Ravana, at the fag end of Satya-yuga

(sic!) and some â€œmlechhasâ€ are masquerading today as â€œVamadevasâ€, all

teaching us â€œVedic astrologyâ€ (sic!). You can draw your own conclusions

about Varahamihira as well as todayâ€™s â€œVamadevasâ€ and â€œParasharasâ€

whose only aim is thus to derail the real Vedic calendar through â€œVedic

astrologyâ€!Â That also reminds me that some jyotishis are sort of worshipping

even Ravana for the astrological knowledge he is supposed to have bequeathed

through his Ravana Samhita etc. works!Â I have seen that work also, and like

Brihat Parashari, is the worst possible figment of imagination!

> Common-sense also demands to shun being a â€œkapurushaâ€ (a fatalist eunuch!)

> I remember having read, several decades back, a dialogue---perhaps- -in

Panchatantra.Â A shishya, after having met with failures in spite of his

efforts, was disappointed and said to his Guru, â€œbhagyam phalati sarvatra, na

vidya na chai paurushamâ€Â i.e. â€œIt is only fate and neither efforts nor

educationetc., that work/frucitfy everywhere in case of a human beingâ€.Â The

Guru, however, retorted,

> â€œudyoginam purusha simham upaiti lakshmi, daivena deyam iti kapurusha

vadantiâ€---

> â€œOnly someone who acts like a lion i.e. one who makes Herculean efforts in

spite of having met with failures, deserves the blessings of Lakshmi, the

goddess of wealth.Â On the other hand, â€˜bhagya will do everythingâ€™ is a pet

dialogue of eunuchsâ€.Â That is also what Bhagwan Krishna advised Arjuna in

the Gita:

> â€œklaibyam ma sma gamah parthai naitat tvayi upapadyete

> Kshyudram hridaya daurbalyam tektvotishtha parantapaiâ€

> â€œO Arjuna, donâ€™t act like a eunuch!Â It does not behove you!Â Shake off

your sloth and weak heartedness and get up and fight â€ " actâ€Â Bhagwan Krishna

did not ask Arjuna to consult any soothsayer nor did He advise Arjuna to

â€œleave everything to your fateâ€.Â We also must, therefore, wake up and make

every effort ourselves to save the Vedic calendar from the clutches of â€œVedic

astrologersâ€, instead of expecting some miracles!

> â€œTry, try againâ€

> I also remember having read in my school days a REAL STORY of some king,

perhaps Rana Sanga of Rajasthanâ€ " I am not sure,Â that after fleeing from his

opponents,Â he was hiding in a dilapidated house in ruins and was in utter

frustration.Â There he saw a spider crawling towards its web but the

â€˜threadâ€™ through which it was crawling snapped and it fell to the

ground.Â Â The spider kept on trying again and again and it is said that it

succeeded in going into its web after an eighth attempt.Â The king was amazed

on the tenacity of the spider and got an inspiration, â€˜Try, try againâ€™ from

that creature!Â Instead of running to some jyotishi, like todayâ€™s

politicians, he made several attempts and ultimately succeeded in vanquishing

his enemy.Â So if we really want to succeed in our efforts to streamline the

Vedic calendar, the first thing we have to do is to shun

â€œbrrahmana-chandalasâ€ .

> Are our dharmacharyas aware of the damage that is being done to the nation by

â€œVedic jyotishâ€?

> Â In a nutshell, all our shastras and common sense are against any sort of

indulging in â€œbhavishya-darshanâ€ especially as it is the greatest obstacle

in streamlining the Hindu calendar.Â It is only â€œVedic astrologersâ€ who are

putting the cart before the horse by trying to convey that our shastras have

â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ from the â€œbeginning of Hindu civilizationâ€ !

> Since these â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are not quoting any exact references in

support of their arguments, it appears that they are completely enveloped in

Tamoguni budhi andÂ therefore interpreting every shastra in quite an opposite

manner!Â

> What is all the more surprising is that our dharmacharyas and jagadgurus and

â€œhis holiness of art of one thing or the otherâ€ etc. etc. are encouraging

these â€œbrahmana chandalasâ€ in their anti-Vedic activities in the name of

â€œVedic astrologyâ€!

> May be even those dharmacharyas etc. etc. are reading all the shastras upside

down, since the Manu has advised especially Vanaprasthis, which naturally

includesÂ Sanyasis and dharmacharyas and jagadgurus etc. etc., to desist from

being nakshatra soochis, in no uncertain terms:

> â€œna chaa utpata nimitabyam na nakshatranga vidyaya

> Na anushasana vadabyam bikshyam lipset karhichitÂ Â Manusmriti 6/50

> â€œA Vanaprasthi should never earn his â€˜bikshaâ€™ (a mendicantâ€™s

livelihood) either by declaring the results of utpatas i.e. omens like Â falling

of meteors or flying of swallows etc. etc.; face reading etc. nor by nakshatra

vidya i.e. by checking the horoscopes of othersâ€¦..â€

> I, therefore, request these dharmacharyas and â€œhis holinessesâ€ and yogis

and tantriks galore to wake up to such travesty of dharmashastras and instead of

reading them upside down, they must streamline the real Vedic calendar in

accordance with the Vedic lore and not â€œLahiri-loreâ€ or â€œRamana-loreâ€ or

â€œChandra-Hair- loreâ€ etc.

> A friendly advice to all the â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€ and

â€œnakshatra-jeevisâ€ who call themselves Vedic astrologers these days:

> Since most of the â€œVedic astrologersâ€ and their â€œacharyasâ€ are

prospering by leaps and bounds at the cost of the real Vedic calendar by such

anti-Vedic activities as â€œVedic astrologyâ€ they feel that they are doing the

right thing and they must continue to do so, as instead of losing anything, they

are gaining name and fame and of course, wealth!Â But this is what Bhishma has

said about such nouveau riche people.

> Na adharmash-charito rajan sadyah phalati gaurivaa

> Moolani chai prashakhaschai dahan samdhigachhati

> Papena karmana vittam labdva papah prahrishyeti

> Sa vardamanah steyena papah pape prasajyete

> Na dharmo asteetimanvanah shucheen avahasan iva

> Ashradhadanashchai bhavet vinasham upagachhatiâ€¦. â€¦.Mahabharata Shanti

parva 102/17-20

> â€œO Yudishthira, adhrma does not fructify immediately just as a seed sown in

the earth would do!Â However, it burns the roots (parents!) as well as the

branches (kith and kin, including offspring!) ultimately.Â A sinner, by

amassing wealth by dint of his sinful activities feels overjoyed and commits

more sinful activities (to earn more wealth)!Â On prospering thus through his

adharma he thinks that nothing like dharma exists at all and even makes a fun of

pious people, who are poor because of their piety.Â However, the sinner gets

destroyed ultimately (together with his parents and offspring)â€.

> I do not think anything more pertinent and relevant could have been said by

anybody else for these naksahtra-scoohis and naakshtraas and nakshatra jeevis

and their dharmacharyas! Â We have a LIVING EXAMPLE OF â€œthe greatest Vedic

astrologerâ€ of the previous century, who had literally built a huge empire

through â€œVedic astrologyâ€ (nakshatra-soochi! ) profession, books and

magazines but died himself a miserable death; his wife became a pauper who had

to beg from her offspring for her hand to mouth living (in spite of the fact

that the â€œgreatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth centuryâ€ had foreseen

â€œRajya yogasâ€ and â€œdhana yogasâ€ in her horoscope and that is why he had

married her)! All those â€œVedic astrologyâ€ books and â€œmagazinesâ€ are now

being sold as waste paper and his offspring are fighting among themselves like

Kilkenny cats for the spoils!Â Ill gotten is ill spent!Â And as per our

shastras, there is nothing more ill

> gotten than what is â€œgottenâ€ through being a â€brahmana-chandalaâ€ i.e.

a â€œnakshatra-scoohiâ€ , as has been proved above.

> No Rashi has been mentioned at all in the Manusmriti or the Mbh or

Arthashastra or Atri Samhita etc.:

> Absence ofÂ Mesha etc. rashisÂ at theÂ time of the ManuÂ is evidentÂ fromthe

following shlokas about creation:

> â€kalam kala vibhakteeshchai nakshatrani grahas tatha

> Saritah sagaran shailan samani vishamani chaiâ€Â 1/24

> â€œThe creator created Time,Â kal, nakshatras, grahas, oceans and mountains

etc...(but not Mesha etc. rashis!)â€.Â

> â€œDaive ratri ahanee varsham pravibhagastayoh punah

> Ahas tatra udagayanam ratrih syat dakshinayanamâ€ 1/67

> â€œA year has two ayanas, Uttarayana is the day of gods and dakshinayana their

nightâ€.

> Â It means the Creator had not created any Mesha etc. rashis by the time of

the Manu though He had created naksahtras and grahas! Dimensions of TimeÂ also

were in Ayanas and daysÂ etc. sans Mesha etc. Â Rashis.

> Similarly, we do not find Mesha etc. rashis in the Mbh. nor in the

Arthashastra of Chanakya but only nakshatras!

> What is also noteworthy is that in all the admonishments of the Manu, the Atri

Samhita and the Mbh or Gautama the Budha, â€œVedic astrologersâ€ have been

addresses as â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€ or â€œnakshatra jeevisâ€ or â€œshamanasâ€

or even â€œnaakshatrasâ€.Â It confirms the fact that prior to the advent of

Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, predictions in India were made on the basis

of nakshatras (and not Mesha etc. Rashis!) vis-Ã -vis planets, as advocated by

â€œAtharva Veda Parishishtaâ€ etc.---â€ " but not any Veda or Vedanga Jyotisha

etc.!Â Such â€œjyotishisâ€ whom the AVP calls Atharvanas etc. were called

nakshatra-jeevis by our shastras. And those very naakshatra-jeeevis have been

castigated by all the shastras as â€œbrahmana-chandalasâ€ etc.!

> A nod to wise andâ€¦.

> I could quote hundreds of â€œpramanasâ€ from the Vedas,Â Brahmanas,

Upanishadas, Itihasas and Puranas and other shastras where the Hindus have been

advised to believe in their efforts (and not in soothsayers! ) for chaturvarga

i.e. dharma, artha, kama and moksha.Â But I think that is belabouring the

issue, and â€œVedic astrologersâ€ like the one who said that the Manusmriti

permitted astrology, would say that my posts are â€œverboseâ€!Â Thus if these

jyotishisÂ are really wise, they will take this hint as more than sufficient and

stop making fools in the name of Vedic astrology and also creating obstacles in

streamlining the Vedic calendar!

> Celebrating festivals/muhurtas on wrong days is literally killing our dharma

ourselves!

> â€œDarhma eva hato hantih dharmo rakshayati rakshitah

> Tasmad dharmo na hantavyo, maa no dharmo hato avadheetâ€Â Manusmriti 8/15

> â€œIf you kill your dharma, it will kill you and if you protect it, it will

protect you. As such, dharma has to be protected at all costs lest it kills us

if we betray it for selfish motivesâ€.Â And there is no better or worse way of

killing/betraying oneâ€™s own dharma than by celebrating festivals on wrong

days!

> The net result of this mess known as Vedic astrology is that we are

celebrating all our festivals etc. on wrong days like marriages in shdardapaksha

and Pitra amavasya on the day of actual Dipavali and so on!

> All I can do is to pray to God to save Hindu dhamra from

â€˜brahmana-chandalasâ€ and their dharmacharyas and yogis and tantriks so that

Hindus can start celebrating festivals and muhurtas on correct days!Â

> With regards,

> A K Kaul

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â OmTat Sat Brahmarpanam Astu

>

> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

http://messenger./invite/

>

March 20, 2009

Dear Mr Sanat

//We in the forum received your msg. after a very long time. Thanks for reappearing.//

I hv been contributing by regularly sending the monthly predictions.

//I will like to draw your kind attention on my msg dated 2-10-08. Your observation on some points are still awaited. If you are really a Vedic astrologer then why are you shying in proper interaction on astrology?//

I don't remember of hvg recieved any msg from u, but if I hv missed it, pls resend the same for my reply

//But if you are claiming that astrology is a science or vedic then you must have some argument in support of it except mindset or echoing some useless sentences. Because these (at least our) forums are meant for interaction and exchange of views.//

By interaction & sharing our views we increase our knowledge & vedic shashtras, it can be astrology, are mainly aimed to discuss our views to increase our knowledge & gain some possible wisdom.

//Yes, How you can say that only a believer in astrology can believe in Dharm? So do you mean to say that if I am not believing astrology then I am adharmik. Am I exploiting the ignorance of simple people or I am I doing some work against the law of the land or religion? Or is in your views those ignorant persons are religious who are completely confused and lost their selfconfidence and sitting in front of some astrologer for socalled peeping in the future and trying to befool almighty by wearing some gem etc. and involved in all sort of anti-social activities.//

Sanat Ji pls read my mail carefully, I hv mentioned very clearly what Dharma meant in respect of the statement made by me. I am reproducing the same for ur information. ""A native who believes in astrology also has faith in Dharma, a native who is non believer of Astrology is also a non believer of Dharma. Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We execute our karma as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our birth.""If u r casting any doubts on applicability of the vedic science, then I am wondering why do u call this forum as SCIENCEOFASTROLOGY.

HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGER CELL +919867214103

sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain Sent: Thursday, 19 March, 2009 11:20:25 PM Re: "Vedic astrologers" read dharmashastras upside down!

Dear Nathani ji,Namaskar,We in the forum received your msg. after a very long time. Thanks for reappearing.I will like to draw your kind attention on my msg dated 2-10-08. Your observation on some points are still awaited. If you are really a Vedic astrologer then why are you shying in proper interaction on astrology? I am not asking you to stop your business, as I have intimated you earlier that you have every right to exploit ignorant. But if you are claiming that astrology is a science or vedic then you must have some argument in support of it except mindset or echoing some useless sentences. Because these (at least our) forums are meant for interaction and exchange of views. In Primitive age too, our sages never tried to skip any shastrath, then why are you afraid, because you have not formulated the principles then where is the necessity for linking your self with these principles. In science every research is always under

the lens and open for discussion. I hope you will like to read my original book on line in Google book library.Yes, How you can say that only a believer in astrology can believe in Dharm? So do you mean to say that if I am not believing astrology then I am adharmik. Am I exploiting the ignorance of simple people or I am I doing some work against the law of the land or religion? Or is in your views those ignorant persons are religious who are completely confused and lost their selfconfidence and sitting in front of some astrologer for socalled peeping in the future and trying to befool almighty by wearing some gem etc. and involved in all sort of anti-social activities.Shri Kaul ji will certainly offer his comments on your msg.Hope you will not take my msg as personally because I am only interested in academic interaction and my msg is also in the same tune.Hope to receive your commentsThanking you,Yours

truly,Sanat.PS: Welcome to all new members and I hope they may have gone through my blog "Astrology a science or myth" in file section. I invite everyone to share their opinion, views, stand, comments etc. on any point raised in the blog or in various earlier msgs. Their msgs. will not be moderated as this forum is open to all for sharing the academic views and members will themselves maintain the dignity of the forum., "Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani" <haresh1405@ ...> wrote:>> Dear A K Kaul> > It will be advisable to get your horoscope checked from a bonafied & professional Vedic Astrologer so as to ascertain what planets provoke these kind of thoughts in ur mind. A native who believes in astrology

also has faith in Dharma, a native who is non believer of Astrology is also a non believer of Dharma. Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We execute our karma as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our birth.> > Then what is the point of pointing & highlighting about Manav Dharma. For Manu, Dharma & Astrology go vis-a-vis. Manav is incomplete without Dharma & Astrology. Dharma, Karma, Kama & Moksha are integral part of Manu. > > Astrology & Panchang go togather. Without Panchang astrology is incomplete & with out Astrology Panchang is incomplete. They move like two parallel tracks on which a train moves.> > Astrology has various streams, and an astrologer chooses the stream in which he understands better & is comfortable with. Streams of astrology are varied. Palmistry, Nakshatra(KP) system, face reading,

thumb reading, Nadi Shashtra, Samudrik Shashtra, Vedic Astrology, Numerology, Prashna Jyotish, and many more are part & parcel of astrology.> > Astrology is a perfect science. it does not fails, it is the astrologer who fails to understand astrology in its correct form & gives wrong analysis. Astrology is not at fault, it is the astrologer who is at fault. No astrologer can also be perfect as astrologer is also human and God has never made Man as a perfect living being.> > An astrologer always follows the devised science & goes by its results, but here the astrologer also fails in understanding & reading the effect of the system on the natives life, as the astrolger do not work on the actual result in doing research. This is the most sensitive area in astrology & because of his failure in doing proper research on the effects of planets & dashas on

the native, astrology thus fails & people loosse hope & faith in astrology. > > Astrological science is an ocean which is made up of just 9 planets & 12 bhavs. This is where it excells as a handful of planets & bhavs makes this science an ocean.> > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGER CELL +919867214103> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> jyotirved <jyotirved@. ..>> jyotirved <jyotirved@. ..>> Tuesday, 17 March, 2009 6:13:03 PM> "Vedic astrologers" read dharmashastras upside down!> > > > Dear friends,> Namaskar!> A common question I am often asked is, â€œWhy are you against â€˜Vedic astrologyâ€™ and not against other predictive methods like palmistry, Tarot etc. etc. Do you believe in

them"?. The answer is an emphatic no. Then why am I against â€œVedic astrologyâ€ alone? > â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and Vedic calendar have an inherent mutual conflict!> As is common knowledge by now, there is a direct conflict between Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashi based jyotisha, whether sayana or nirayana, and the real Vedic calendar, since there are no Mesha etc. rashis (nor Mangal, Shani etc. planets) but only Madhu, Madhava etc.. months, tithi, nakshatras and Udgayana etc. phenomena in the Vedas, Brahnmanas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. whereas â€œVedic astrologyâ€ cannot survive without Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets. â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are imposing those very imaginary rashis -ï¿½ï¿½"zodiac means an imaginary â€œcircle of animals!â€---on the Hindu calendar dictating simultaneously that even if there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga jyotisha etc., we must celebrate all the

Vedic, Pauranic andgeographic/ seasonal festivals like Uttarayana, Vasanta Navratra or Sharadiya Navratra etc. on days suggested by â€œLahiri jyotishisâ€ and not the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Puranas or even> geographical phenomena etc.!> â€œVedic astrologersâ€ never quote the exact references in spite of repeated reminders!> To continue their opposition to the real Vedic calendar because of its conflict with â€œVedic astrologyâ€, these â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are claiming that predictive gimmicks through Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras which, according to them, are subsumed in Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis vis-Ã -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets have been advocated/permitted /sanctioned by our dharmashastras! Some moderators/owners of astrology forums even claim that the Atharva Veda has given results of being born in different nakshatras! Another "Vedic astrologer" says that "the sun went to meet the Bull" means the

astrological sign Vrishaba as per the Vedas! As they are not quoting the relevant shlokas/mantras in support of their arguments, in spite of being asked to do so repeatedly, they are liars and are obviously making a fool of everybody! > A â€œVedic astrologerâ€ had even claimed "The Manu Smriti is the oldest Dharmasashtra and the fact that it permitted astrology means that astrology was permitted from the beginning of the Hindu civilization. " But, as is the habit of these â€œVedic astrologersâ€, he also has not quoted any shloka in support of his â€œdeclarationâ€! > The facts of the case, however, are:> â€œNakshatra-jeevis i.e. jyotishis must be debarred from performing any religious ritesâ€--Manu> I request these "Vedic astrologers" to do some introspection after reading as to what the Manu has said actually about "nakshatra-jeevis" (jyotishis!) in shloka 162 of third adhyaya, and I

quote:> "hasti go ashva ushtra damako NAKSHATRAIR YASHCHA JEEVATI, > pakshinam poshako yashchai, yudhacharyas tathaiva chai.."> This shloka in the Manusmriti is actually in the context about as to which people are to be debarred from performing diava and pitrya karyas i.e.. yajnyas etc for gods and oblations etc. for the Manes, and the Manu has said unequivocally "Trainers of elephants, cows, horses; ANYONE WHO EARNS HIS LIVELIHOOD BY DINT OF NAKSHATRAS and one who puts birds into cages are not allowed to perform any daiva or pitra karya"> The Hindi translator of Kshemraj Shri Krishendas, Bombay, edition of the Manusmriti has translated the above shloka as follows, â€œhaathi, bail, ghoda aur oont ï¿½ï¿½" in sabko sikhane wale aur JYOTISH SE JEEVIKA KARNE-WALEï¿½ï¿½"yeh sab shubha karya main varjit hainâ€. Is this the permission that the Manu is supposed to have granted?> The same â€œVedic

astrologerâ€ who had said that the Manu had â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ had said further, "If Avtarji has not read what the Manu Smriti says about astrology he has no right to say that astrology is not sanctioned in the ancient past." It means, thus, that he, like all his counterparts, has read the Manusmriti upside down!> â€œOne must forget bhagya and only stick to purusharthaâ€- --Manu> The same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ had also said that the Manu has advised that a king must consult a jyotishi. However, again, he has not quoted any shloka in support of his argumentand it appears that he is confusing, because of his Tamoguni budhi, the Manu with Varahamihira! It is the latter according to whom a king must definitenly have a "samvatsarika" ! The Manu was not a fatalist. He was a scholar extraordinarywith practical knowledge of statecraft besides the Vedas etc. and what he has actually

advised the king to do, instead of consulting soothsayers, is:> â€œbakavat chinatayet arthan simha vat chai prakramet> Vrika vat cha avalumpeta shashavat cha vinishpatetâ€ Manusmriti 7/106> i.e. "Like a kingfisher eager to hunt some fish in the river/sea/lake, a king must concentrate on increasing his wealth (a kingfisher does not consult soothsayers before pecking at the fish!). A king must jump on his enemy like a lion jumps on its prey (lions do not consult â€˜Vedic astrologersâ€™ before jumping on their preys). Like a wolf a king must kill his enemy even if it is hidden in a fort (No astrologer has as yet claimed that he was consulted by some wolf!).. Like a hare, a king must know how to extricate himself from tricky situations (Does anybody know if any rabbit has consulted some jyotishi?)" > In 7/182-83, the Manu has said, "A king must wage a war in the month of Margasheersha or

Phalguna or any other suitable period when he is sure of his victory by dint of the opponent king having got addicted to some bad habits etc.â€> Consulting fortune tellers is definitely a fad, a bad habit, an addiction and has been proscribed by shastras since it makes one very unsure of himself/herself and leaves him/her at the mercy of soothsayers, most of whom are liars and quite a few of whom call themselves "Vedic astrologers" these days. Example is better than precept and that example is: BJP was sent into wilderness as jyotishis had assured them that by advancing the elections, Shri A B Vajapayee would be the PM, come what may! Poor Vajpayeeji has all along been bedridden, after having lost his throne! No jyotishi had â€œforeseenâ€ that! > Regarding "bghagya versus purusharth", this is what the Manu has said,> Naatmanam avamanyeta parvabhir abhisamridhibhih> Aamrityoh

shriyam anvishyet nainam manyeta durlabam,â€¦ (Manusmirit 4/137) i.e..> "If in spite of making efforts, one is not able to earn the desired amount of wealth, one must in no case feel himself/herself unfortunate but continue to make efforts till the end of his/her life, since it is not that difficult to earn wealth (by making proper efforts)" > The Manu has not advised that one must consult soothsayers to do some remedial measures or wear some gem to remove non-existent and imaginary kalasarpa doshas and ashtama shani and what not to get rid of penury!> The real crux of fate versus efforts has been described by the Manu in 7/205> Sarvam karmedam ayattam vidhane daiva manushye> tayor daivam achintyam tu manushe vidyete kriya> "What good or bad deeds have been done in our past births are in the hands of 'daiva'. What (good or bad deeds) we are doing now in this birth is

up to us. Since what is past is past. It need not be pondered upon. But the present can certainly be taken care of (and as such, we should forget the past janmas and concentrate on good deeds in this janma---and certainly making a fool of the gullible public by making correct predictions from incorrect data is not a good deed at all, nor is it a â€œgood deedâ€ on the part of â€œclientsâ€ to run after soothsayers! ).> To remove any doubts further from the minds of astro-buffs, the Manu has defined purushartha as follows:> â€œalabdham chaiva lipsyet labdham rakshyet prayatnatah> Rakshitam vardhayet chaiva vridham paatreshu nikshipet> Etachchaturvidham vidyat purushartha prayojanam > Asya nityam anushthanam samyak kuryat atandritahâ€ 7/99-100> â€œOne must attempt to obtain what he/she has not obtained yet. He/she must preserve what he/she has already earned, and keep on increasing it

further. After having increased it, he/she should utilize (invest) it properly > â€œThese are the four limbs/types of purushartha and one must always keep them in mind and act accordingly (and not waste his/her time and wealth and energy by running after nakshatra-soochis! )â€.> Bhishma also has castigated nakshatra-soochis!> Let us hear what Bhishma had to say about â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€> â€œahvayakah devalakah naakshatra gramayajakah> Ete brahmana chandalah maha-pathika panchakahâ€â€¦.. Shanti Parva 76/6> i.e. â€œCourt bailiffs, pujaris of temples for the sake of money, those who study naksahtras (jyotishis!)â€¦ are chandalas even if they are Brahmins (and must be excluded from daiva and pitrya karya)â€.> Bhishma also did not believe in bhagya (and therefore nakshatra-soochis! ) but in purushartha: > Let us now hear Bhishmaâ€™s views about bhagya versus purushartha:>

â€œutthanenna sada putra prayatetha yudishthira> Na hi utthanam rite daivam rajnyam artham prasadayetâ€ Rajdharmanushasana parva 65/14> â€œDear son Yudishthira, you must always rely on your own efforts since without your own efforts there is no question of any daiva (bhagya) bestowing any riches on any kingâ€ > â€œvipannam vai samarambhe santapam ma sma vai krithah> Ghattasvaiva sadaatmanam rajnyam eva paro nayahâ€ Rajadharmanushasana parva 65/16> â€œIf you are besieged by miseries, do not feel despondent. To struggle with adversities (without consulting soothsayers! ) is the only way out for a king to come out of those adversities.â€> Vishnugugupta Kautileeya a.k.a. Chanakya has no good words for nakshatra-soochis and astro-buffs!> The world famous statesman Chanakya (4th century BCE ), in his Arthashastra, has dissuaded a king about consulting nakshatra-soochis in no

uncertain terms:> â€œnakshatram ati prichhantam baalo artham ati vartate> Artho hyarthasya nakshatram kim karishyanti tarakahâ€> i.e. â€œ The objective (artha) eludes the foolish man (baalam) who enquires too much from the stars. The objective should be the nakshatra of the objective, of what avail are the starsâ€. We must not forget that Chankya destroyed the last king of Nanda-Vamsha, who was an astro-buff. It means thus that to destroy a powerful enemy you have to shun and not embrace nakshatra-jeevis!> Vasishtha Muni, the preceptor of Bhagwan Rama, also has chided astro-buffs and jyotishis:> Yoga-Vasishtha Maharamayana has nothing but sarcasm for jyotisha, jyotishis and also their clients in no uncertain terms when he has said:> â€œkaal vidbhir vinirneetaa yasyasti chira jeevita, > sa ched jeevati sanchhin shiras tad daivam uttamam> kaal vidbhir vinirneetam

pandityam yasya raghava> anadyapita vidyash-ched vidvan tad daivam uttamamaâ€ Mumukshu vyavhar prakran 8/18-19> â€œDestiny may be said to be efficacious/ effective, if some one for whom the jyotishis (fortune tellers) had predicted a long life survives even after he has been beheaded.> â€œDestiny may be said to be something to be reckoned with, if some one for whom jyotishis had predicted great scholarship becomes a scholar without reading even a single alphabet himself/herselfâ€> It is clear that after the nakshatra and/or utpata-soochaka works like â€œAtharva-Veda Parishishtaâ€ or â€œParashara Samhitaâ€ etc. had been spawned, the real well wishers of Bharatavarsha like the Manu, Bhishma and Vasishtha and even Vishnugupta Kautileeya etc. had warned the Hindus in no uncertain terms about the pernicious effects of running after â€œnakshatra soochisâ€who are actually "chandalas" even if they are Brahmins!

> Gautama the Budha also has warned about omen-mongers in no uncertain terms:> â€œSome brahmanas and shramanas earn their livelihood by taking to beastly professions and eating food brought to them out of fear; the say, â€˜there will be a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse, occultation of the stars, the sun and the moon will move in the correct direction, the nakshatras will move in the correct path, in the incorrect path, there will be precipitation of meteors, burning of the cardinal direction, earthquakes, roar of heavenly war drums, the sun, the moon and the stars will rise and set wrongly producing wide distress among all beings etc. (Just do not be taken in by their pranks!)â€ Digha nikaya, Vol I, p 68, Pali Text Book Society> All the dharmashastras are against nakshtra-schoochis/ jeevis:> It is not only the Manusmriti and the Mbh or Yogavasishtha but

every dharmashastra has castigated vociferously such â€œbrahaman chandalasâ€> Let us see what Atri Samhita 383-385 has to say> â€œjyotirvido hyatharvanah keerah pauran-pathakah> Shradhe yajnye mahadane na varneeyah kadachanai > Shradancha pitaram gauram danam chaiva tu nishphalam> Yajnye cha parihanih syat tasmat tan parivarjayet> Aavkashchitrakarash chai vaidyo nakshatra pathakah> Chatur vipra na pujyante brihaspati samah yadi> â€œA JYOTISHI, AN ATHARVANA, ONE WHO NARRATES PURANAS FOR A LIVELIHOOD, ALL THESE ARE TO BE AVOIDED IN A SHRADHA AS WELL AS A YAJNYA AT ALL COSTS. IF THESE PEOPLE DO PARTICIPATE IN SHRADHAS ETC . ALL SUCH SHRADAS AND ANY CHARITIES TO THEM WILL BE NISHPHALA I..E. FRUITLESS. THEY WILL DO MAXIM HARM TO ANY YAJNYA IN WHICH THEY PARTICIPATE. THEY MUST THEREFORE BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTSâ€¦â€¦A BRAHMIN WHO IS A NAKSHATRA PATHAKA I.E. ONE WHO READS

NAKSHATRAS OF HIS CLIENTS HAS TO BE SHUNNED AND AVOIDED EVEN IF HE IS AS LEARNED AS BRIHASPATI, THE PRECEPTOR OF GODS â€.> It is worthwhile to note that the â€œAtharva Veda Parishishitaâ€ has advised to utilize the services of an Atharvana without fail whereas Atri Rishi has advised that an Atharvana, even if he is as well-read and intelligent as Brihaspati, has to be shunned like a â€œchandalaâ€> I wonder if there can be anything more damaging/castigatin g for nakshatra-soochis- --who call themselves â€œVedic astrologersâ€ these days---than Atriâ€™s admonishments!> Vridha vasishtha has called nakshtra soochis as papamoortihi. e. sin personified:> Nakshatra soochee kila papa-roopo, heyah sada sudharma krityeâ€¦â€¦. Vridha-Vasishta> A nakshatra soochi is sin personified and must be avoided at all costs in any good deed. > Was Varahamihira really a well-wisher of the Hindus or of the Greeks/Ionians,

since he called the latter â€œmlechhasâ€ but wanted the Hindus to worship them as Rishis because they knew astrolatory?> As everybody knows, Varahamihira, whom some â€œVedic astrologersâ€ address as â€œParama pujyaâ€---i.e. the â€œMost worshipful oneâ€, has said in his Brihat Samhita 2/15 > Mlechhah hi yavanasteshu samyak shastram idam sthitam> Rishi vat te-api pujyante, kim punar daiva-vid dvijah> â€Yavanas (Greeks and/or Ionians) are certainly mlechhas actually but as they know the shastra of astrology (predictive gimmicks!) they are worshipped like Rishisâ€¦â€. However, all our shastras, as seen above, advise that even if a highly well read Brahmin like Brihaspati is a nakshatra-soochi/ jeevi i.e. a jyotishi, he must be shunned like a chandala from all the religious functions!> Since it is those very â€œdoctrinesâ€ that have been castigated by our Rishis that were later propagated/advocate d by

Varahimihira on the shoulders of Sphujidwajaâ€™s Yavana Jatakam and Maya the mlechhaâ€™s Surya Sidhanta etc., we have to be extremely wary about the intentions of that Varahamihira and todayâ€™s â€œVamadevasâ€ and â€œParasharasâ€ who tell us that predictive gimmicks are â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and who call those gimmicks as â€œVedanga Jyotishaâ€ which actually is a mathematical work for calculating tithi etc.> Since all the sages like the Manu, Vasishtha, Chanakya and even Gautama the Budha were of a pre-Varahamihira era, who was around in about 6th century AD, it means Varahamihira had either not read any of those admonishments- --nay even our dharma-shastras- --or ignored them deliberately. Most probably, it must be the latter, since that is what todayâ€™s â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are doing! It could also be that he read dharmashastras upside down, exactly like todayâ€™s â€œVedic astrologersâ€ who claim that the Manu had

permitted astrology. It is, therefore, extremely doubtful that Varahamihira was a well-wisher of the Hindus, as he appears to have misguided them about his prowess of predictive gimmicks on the basis of a monstrous astronomical work viz. the Surya Sidhanta and advised them to treat even mlechhas as Rishis if they knew astrolatory! > It is worthwhile to note that the same â€œVedic astrologerâ€ who says that the Manu has â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ goes on parroting that Varahamihira belonged to an era of 6th century BCE instead of 6th century AD, but, as is the habit of â€œVedic astrologersâ€, he is not advancing any proofs for the same either!> Actually, some good for nothing Greek astronomer masqueraded as Maya, the father-in-law of famous Rakshasa king Ravana, at the fag end of Satya-yuga (sic!) and some â€œmlechhasâ€ are masquerading today as â€œVamadevasâ€, all teaching us â€œVedic astrologyâ€ (sic!). You can draw

your own conclusions about Varahamihira as well as todayâ€™s â€œVamadevasâ€ and â€œParasharasâ€ whose only aim is thus to derail the real Vedic calendar through â€œVedic astrologyâ€! That also reminds me that some jyotishis are sort of worshipping even Ravana for the astrological knowledge he is supposed to have bequeathed through his Ravana Samhita etc. works! I have seen that work also, and like Brihat Parashari, is the worst possible figment of imagination!> Common-sense also demands to shun being a â€œkapurushaâ€ (a fatalist eunuch!)> I remember having read, several decades back, a dialogue---perhaps- -in Panchatantra. A shishya, after having met with failures in spite of his efforts, was disappointed and said to his Guru, â€œbhagyam phalati sarvatra, na vidya na chai paurushamâ€ i.e. â€œIt is only fate and neither efforts nor educationetc. , that work/frucitfy everywhere in case of a human beingâ€.

The Guru, however, retorted, > â€œudyoginam purusha simham upaiti lakshmi, daivena deyam iti kapurusha vadantiâ€---> â€œOnly someone who acts like a lion i.e. one who makes Herculean efforts in spite of having met with failures, deserves the blessings of Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth. On the other hand, â€˜bhagya will do everythingâ€™ is a pet dialogue of eunuchsâ€. That is also what Bhagwan Krishna advised Arjuna in the Gita:> â€œklaibyam ma sma gamah parthai naitat tvayi upapadyete> Kshyudram hridaya daurbalyam tektvotishtha parantapaiâ€> â€œO Arjuna, donâ€™t act like a eunuch! It does not behove you! Shake off your sloth and weak heartedness and get up and fight ï¿½ï¿½" actâ€ Bhagwan Krishna did not ask Arjuna to consult any soothsayer nor did He advise Arjuna to â€œleave everything to your fateâ€. We also must, therefore, wake up and make every effort ourselves to save the

Vedic calendar from the clutches of â€œVedic astrologersâ€, instead of expecting some miracles!> â€œTry, try againâ€> I also remember having read in my school days a REAL STORY of some king, perhaps Rana Sanga of Rajasthanï¿½ï¿½"I am not sure, that after fleeing from his opponents, he was hiding in a dilapidated house in ruins and was in utter frustration. There he saw a spider crawling towards its web but the â€˜threadâ€™ through which it was crawling snapped and it fell to the ground. The spider kept on trying again and again and it is said that it succeeded in going into its web after an eighth attempt. The king was amazed on the tenacity of the spider and got an inspiration, â€˜Try, try againâ€™ from that creature! Instead of running to some jyotishi, like todayâ€™s politicians, he made several attempts and ultimately succeeded in vanquishing his enemy. So if we really want to succeed in

our efforts to streamline the Vedic calendar, the first thing we have to do is to shun â€œbrrahmana-chandalasâ€ .> Are our dharmacharyas aware of the damage that is being done to the nation by â€œVedic jyotishâ€?> In a nutshell, all our shastras and common sense are against any sort of indulging in â€œbhavishya-darshanâ€ especially as it is the greatest obstacle in streamlining the Hindu calendar. It is only â€œVedic astrologersâ€ who are putting the cart before the horse by trying to convey that our shastras have â€œpermitted astrologyâ€ from the â€œbeginning of Hindu civilizationâ€ ! > Since these â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are not quoting any exact references in support of their arguments, it appears that they are completely enveloped in Tamoguni budhi and therefore interpreting every shastra in quite an opposite manner! > What is all the more surprising is that our dharmacharyas and jagadgurus

and â€œhis holiness of art of one thing or the otherâ€ etc. etc. are encouraging these â€œbrahmana chandalasâ€ in their anti-Vedic activities in the name of â€œVedic astrologyâ€!> May be even those dharmacharyas etc. etc. are reading all the shastras upside down, since the Manu has advised especially Vanaprasthis, which naturally includes Sanyasis and dharmacharyas and jagadgurus etc. etc., to desist from being nakshatra soochis, in no uncertain terms:> â€œna chaa utpata nimitabyam na nakshatranga vidyaya> Na anushasana vadabyam bikshyam lipset karhichit Manusmriti 6/50> â€œA Vanaprasthi should never earn his â€˜bikshaâ€™ (a mendicantâ€™s livelihood) either by declaring the results of utpatas i.e. omens like falling of meteors or flying of swallows etc. etc.; face reading etc. nor by nakshatra vidya i.e. by checking the horoscopes of othersâ€¦..â€> I, therefore, request these dharmacharyas

and â€œhis holinessesâ€ and yogis and tantriks galore to wake up to such travesty of dharmashastras and instead of reading them upside down, they must streamline the real Vedic calendar in accordance with the Vedic lore and not â€œLahiri-loreâ€ or â€œRamana-loreâ€ or â€œChandra-Hair- loreâ€ etc.> A friendly advice to all the â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€ and â€œnakshatra-jeevisâ€ who call themselves Vedic astrologers these days:> Since most of the â€œVedic astrologersâ€ and their â€œacharyasâ€ are prospering by leaps and bounds at the cost of the real Vedic calendar by such anti-Vedic activities as â€œVedic astrologyâ€ they feel that they are doing the right thing and they must continue to do so, as instead of losing anything, they are gaining name and fame and of course, wealth! But this is what Bhishma has said about such nouveau riche people.> Na adharmash-charito rajan sadyah phalati gaurivaa> Moolani chai

prashakhaschai dahan samdhigachhati> Papena karmana vittam labdva papah prahrishyeti> Sa vardamanah steyena papah pape prasajyete> Na dharmo asteetimanvanah shucheen avahasan iva> Ashradhadanashchai bhavet vinasham upagachhatiâ€¦. â€¦.Mahabharata Shanti parva 102/17-20> â€œO Yudishthira, adhrma does not fructify immediately just as a seed sown in the earth would do! However, it burns the roots (parents!) as well as the branches (kith and kin, including offspring!) ultimately. A sinner, by amassing wealth by dint of his sinful activities feels overjoyed and commits more sinful activities (to earn more wealth)! On prospering thus through his adharma he thinks that nothing like dharma exists at all and even makes a fun of pious people, who are poor because of their piety. However, the sinner gets destroyed ultimately (together with his parents and offspring)â€.> I do not think anything more

pertinent and relevant could have been said by anybody else for these naksahtra-scoohis and naakshtraas and nakshatra jeevis and their dharmacharyas! We have a LIVING EXAMPLE OF â€œthe greatest Vedic astrologerâ€ of the previous century, who had literally built a huge empire through â€œVedic astrologyâ€ (nakshatra-soochi! ) profession, books and magazines but died himself a miserable death; his wife became a pauper who had to beg from her offspring for her hand to mouth living (in spite of the fact that the â€œgreatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth centuryâ€ had foreseen â€œRajya yogasâ€ and â€œdhana yogasâ€ in her horoscope and that is why he had married her)! All those â€œVedic astrologyâ€ books and â€œmagazinesâ€ are now being sold as waste paper and his offspring are fighting among themselves like Kilkenny cats for the spoils! Ill gotten is ill spent! And as per our shastras, there is nothing more ill> gotten than

what is â€œgottenâ€ through being a â€brahmana-chandalaâ€ i.e. a â€œnakshatra-scoohiâ€ , as has been proved above.> No Rashi has been mentioned at all in the Manusmriti or the Mbh or Arthashastra or Atri Samhita etc.:> Absence of Mesha etc. rashis at the time of the Manu is evident fromthe following shlokas about creation:> â€kalam kala vibhakteeshchai nakshatrani grahas tatha> Saritah sagaran shailan samani vishamani chaiâ€ 1/24> â€œThe creator created Time, kal, nakshatras, grahas, oceans and mountains etc...(but not Mesha etc. rashis!)â€. > â€œDaive ratri ahanee varsham pravibhagastayoh punah> Ahas tatra udagayanam ratrih syat dakshinayanamâ€ 1/67> â€œA year has two ayanas, Uttarayana is the day of gods and dakshinayana their nightâ€.> It means the Creator had not created any Mesha etc. rashis by the time of the Manu though He had

created naksahtras and grahas! Dimensions of Time also were in Ayanas and days etc. sans Mesha etc. Rashis.> Similarly, we do not find Mesha etc. rashis in the Mbh. nor in the Arthashastra of Chanakya but only nakshatras!> What is also noteworthy is that in all the admonishments of the Manu, the Atri Samhita and the Mbh or Gautama the Budha, â€œVedic astrologersâ€ have been addresses as â€œnakshatra-soochisâ€ or â€œnakshatra jeevisâ€ or â€œshamanasâ€ or even â€œnaakshatrasâ€. It confirms the fact that prior to the advent of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, predictions in India were made on the basis of nakshatras (and not Mesha etc. Rashis!) vis-Ã -vis planets, as advocated by â€œAtharva Veda Parishishtaâ€ etc.---ï¿½ï¿½"but not any Veda or Vedanga Jyotisha etc.! Such â€œjyotishisâ€ whom the AVP calls Atharvanas etc. were called nakshatra-jeevis by our shastras. And those very naakshatra-jeeevis have

been castigated by all the shastras as â€œbrahmana-chandalasâ€ etc.!> A nod to wise andâ€¦.> I could quote hundreds of â€œpramanasâ€ from the Vedas, Brahmanas, Upanishadas, Itihasas and Puranas and other shastras where the Hindus have been advised to believe in their efforts (and not in soothsayers! ) for chaturvarga i.e. dharma, artha, kama and moksha. But I think that is belabouring the issue, and â€œVedic astrologersâ€ like the one who said that the Manusmriti permitted astrology, would say that my posts are â€œverboseâ€! Thus if these jyotishis are really wise, they will take this hint as more than sufficient and stop making fools in the name of Vedic astrology and also creating obstacles in streamlining the Vedic calendar! > Celebrating festivals/muhurtas on wrong days is literally killing our dharma ourselves!> â€œDarhma eva hato hantih dharmo rakshayati rakshitah> Tasmad dharmo na

hantavyo, maa no dharmo hato avadheetâ€ Manusmriti 8/15> â€œIf you kill your dharma, it will kill you and if you protect it, it will protect you. As such, dharma has to be protected at all costs lest it kills us if we betray it for selfish motivesâ€. And there is no better or worse way of killing/betraying oneâ€™s own dharma than by celebrating festivals on wrong days!> The net result of this mess known as Vedic astrology is that we are celebrating all our festivals etc. on wrong days like marriages in shdardapaksha and Pitra amavasya on the day of actual Dipavali and so on!> All I can do is to pray to God to save Hindu dhamra from â€˜brahmana-chandalasâ€ and their dharmacharyas and yogis and tantriks so that Hindus can start celebrating festivals and muhurtas on correct days! > With regards,> A K Kaul>

OmTat Sat Brahmarpanam Astu> > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger. / invite/>

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

March 20, 2009

Shri Haresh\(Harry) Nathaniji,

Namaskar!

Before I reply your post, pl. let me know your actual name as to whether it is

Haresh (Harish?) or Harry? It cannot be both, since if it is Harish/Haresh, that

is a Hindu name and if it is Harry, that is a Christian name. You cannot be a

Chrisitan and a Hindu simultaneously, especially since, to the best of my

knowledge Nathani is a Gujarati surname for Brahmins.

As such, what are you actually and what are your qualifications to discuss

dharmashastra etc. Which Vedas, Puranas and other shastras have you read? You

see, we cannot discuss something with someone who has not read them

himself/herself just as we cannot discuss the Theory of Relativity with a

toddler!

Pl. therefore, do give us your credentials first and then it will really be a

pleasure to discuss everything in detail with you.

Regards,

AKK

, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani "

<haresh1405 wrote:

>

> Dear A K Kaul

>

> It will be advisable to get your horoscope checkedÂ from a bonafied &

professional Vedic Astrologer so as to ascertain what planets provoke these kind

of thoughts in ur mind. A native who believes inÂ astrology Â also has faith in

Dharma, a native who is non believer ofÂ Astrology is also a non believer

ofÂ Dharma. Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We

execute our karma as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our

birth.

>

> Then what is the point of pointing & Â highlightingÂ about Manav Dharma.

ForÂ Manu, Dharma & Astrology go vis-a-vis. Manav is incomplete without Dharma &

Astrology. Dharma, Karma,Â Kama & Moksha are integral part of Manu.

>

> Astrology & Panchang go togather. Without Panchang astrology is incomplete &

with out Astrology Panchang is incomplete. They move like two parallel tracks on

which a train moves.

>

> Astrology has various streams, and an astrologer chooses the stream in which

he understands better & is comfortable with. Streams of astrology are varied.

Palmistry, Nakshatra(KP) system, face reading, thumb reading, Nadi Shashtra,

Samudrik Shashtra, Vedic Astrology, Numerology, Prashna Jyotish, and many more

are part & parcel of astrology.

>

> Astrology is aÂ perfect science. it does not fails, it is the astrologer who

fails to understand astrology in its correct form & gives wrong analysis.

Astrology is notÂ at fault, it is the astrologer who is at fault. No astrologer

can alsoÂ be perfect as astrologer is also humanÂ and God has never made Man as

a perfect living being.

>

> An astrologer always follows the devised science & goesÂ by its results, but

here the astrologer also fails in understanding & readingÂ the effect of the

system onÂ the nativesÂ life, as the astrolger doÂ not work on theÂ actual

result in doing research. ThisÂ is the most sensitive area in astrology &

because of his failure in doing proper research on the effects of planets &

dashas on the native, astrology thus fails & people loosse hope & faith in

astrology.

>

> Astrological science is an ocean which is made up of just 9 planets & 12

bhavs. This is where it excells as a handful of planets & bhavs makes this

science an ocean.

> Â

> HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGERÂ CELL +919867214103

> Â

>

> ________________________________

> jyotirved <jyotirved

> Tuesday, 17 March, 2009 6:13:03 PM

> " Vedic astrologers " read dharmashastras upside

down!

>

> Â

> Dear friends,

> Namaskar!

> A common question I am often asked is, â€œWhy are you against â€˜Vedic

astrologyâ€™Â and not against other predictive methods like palmistry, Tarot

etc. etc.Â Do you believe in them " ?.Â The answer isÂ an emphatic no. Then why

am I against â€œVedic astrologyâ€ alone?

> â

March 22, 2009

Dear Nathani ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for your quick response.

>>>>>>I hv been contributing by regularly sending the monthly predictions.<<<<<<

We have already discussed on your forecast. Which are not more then

psychological affect.

>>>>>I don't remember of hvg recieved any msg from u, but if I hv missed it, pls

resend the same for my reply<<<<<<<

I am appending my msg which was mailed on your comments. Reply is still awaited.

Hope you will continue interaction.

>>>>>>By interaction & sharing our views we increase our knowledge & vedic

shashtras, it can be astrology, are mainly aimed to discuss our views to

increase our knowledge & gain some possible wisdom.. <<<<<<

Yes, that's why I am repeatedly asking some points (refer " Astrology a science

or myth in file section " ) for expert opinion. I am raising these points since

long and already raised in various forums. But not a single astrologer is able

to answer instead of bypassing the discussion or observing a long silence.

That's why this forum was started so that interaction may be available at one

place. I am also not moderating the mails like most of the forums.

>>>>>>>> A native who believes inÂ astrology Â also has faith in Dharma, a

native who is non believer ofÂ Astrology is also a non believer ofÂ Dharma.

Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We execute our karma

as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our birth.<<<<<<<

Thus if I am a non believer of astrology then I am also non believer of Dharma

i.e. non believer of Karm. If it is so then I will wait for the planets to do

all work according to their position in my horoscope. Only then I will try to

peep in the future by taking assistance from the astrologers. So that I may be

rest assured that every thing will be OK or at the most I have to wear some gem

etc. to befool the planets and this work will also be Dharam, being done on the

guidance of planets. So please try to understand, you are not supporting the

Karm theory but you are supporting the theory by which you can mould the result

of the Karm and thus undermining the impact of the planets at the time of birth.

So first you decide as to whether

1- you can change the socalled affect of the planets or not. Then we will move

further.

2- Predictive astrology is science or vedic or your faith or business.

>>>>>If u r casting any doubts on applicability of the vedic science, then I am

wondering why do u call this forum as SCIENCEOFASTROLOGY.<<<<<

Name of the forum is `' so that ignorant persons may know that

what is the socalled science behind astrology, by which every book, magazine,

astrologers are trying to misguide the lot with their vested interest. I have

already highlighted in my book in Hindi and English (refer 1st msg. of the

forum) as to how every principle of astrology like signlord, aspect, exalted,

dasha etc. were formulated on primitive knowledge of our sages like Parashar

etc. that Earth is stationary, Moon is far away then Sun, all constellations are

just below the Mercury and so on.

Thus if you (means astrologers not personal) claim that astrology is science

then you must have answer as to how every principle were formulated or you may

go thought my book only then you can realize as to how it is only a befooling

business.

I hope now you will continue your interaction.

Thanks

Yours truly,

Sanat

PS: New as well as old members may take any point for interaction.

-- Ms Deepika ji, Are you OK? We are not receiving any msg since long.

==========================

(Earlier msg, on which your observations were awaited.)

Dear Nathani ji,

Namaskar,

We in the forum received your msg. after a very long time addressed to

lion_draco. Thanks for reappearing.

Now I am interfering with your interaction that atleast you have admitted >>>>I

am an vedic astrologer & I hv faith & belief in them. that is why I am a

professional astrologer & seeing success in this profession.<<<<<. Thus you have

faith and belief on astrology and secondly now you will not say that it is

science. If you are really a vedic astrologer then atleast you can intimate me

any single slok out of any four Ved where you find the name of signs, forget

about principles. I hope you will not go in silence or quit the forum. Because

it is not covered by your statement >>>> If u get into any kind of debate on

this, this will never end.<<<<< Just quote a slok and we will leave this point,

so where is the question of never ending debate. We are fortunate enough that we

have a professional astrologer, otherwise till now even professional astrologers

have not admitted that they are professional and coverup themselves that they

are student of astrology.

You may have read my interaction with Sh Prabhakar Ji, dated 23-9-8, where in

after claiming many principles he openly admitted that there is no principle in

Lal Kitab about the sex of native then I immediately dropped the point. So how

you can say that debate will never end. Yes, inquisitive of mind will never end

and I will say that it must never be end. But so far you have not replied even a

single point, even when you are claiming Kaal sarp yog etc. and when I asked you

on 6-9-8 as to why longitude of Rahu was not alike Sun and Moon at the time of

total solar eclipse. Since then you are observing silence. So where is the

question of never ending discussion even our discussion has not yet started?

You may be right that >>>> An astrologer should never get into any kind of

controversy else the subject of astrology will fail<<<<< So you think any

discussion on any subject will fail it or you think astrology will collapse if

you discuss or you are not interested in discussion, because your inability will

>>>>> does any good to an astrologer but creates a dark cloud of goodwill<<<<<,

by which astrologer are earning. Whereas, in my opinion, very purpose of the

forum is defeated if professional astrologer like you or those members who have

faith on astrology will not discuss it academically to correctly depict their

stand.

I hope you will come out with open mind and put your stand because " Ship is

always safe at shore... but is is not built for it " . Likewise you may be always

safe among clients but this forum will test the real knowledge, if any.

Please excuse me for any negative observations. As interaction is academic and

not personal.

Hope to hear your observation on my various points raised on 4, 6 and 8th sept.

09.

Thanks,

Yours

Sanat

0751 - 2626868

2-10-8

Re: Re: please do not get angry, just still looking for

help

Dear lion_draco1983 <lion_draco1983

It is very difficult to understand that a person who says is an vedic astrologer

& then quotes by saying that he does not belives in vedas & astrology is not a

vedic. I hv no answer to it. I am an vedic astrologer & I hv faith & belief in

them.

that is why I am a professional astrologer & seeing success in this profession.

If u get into any kind of debate on this, this will never end. The choice is urs

either u get into a debate or just do ur job by following vedic astrology. Else

it will create an unnecessary controversy. An astrologer should never get into

any kind of contoversy else the subject of astrology will fail. an astrologer is

supposed to identify the problem & give a solution according to the horoscope he

is seeing. Controversy does not does any good to an astrologer but creates a

dark cloud of goodwill

With Warm Regards

Haresh(Harry)Nathani

, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani "

<haresh1405 wrote:

>

> Dear Mr Sanat

>

> //We in the forum received your msg. after a very long time. Thanks for

reappearing.//

>

> I hv beenÂ contributing by regularly sending the monthly predictions.

>

> //I will like to draw your kind attention on my msg dated 2-10-08. Your

observation on some points are still awaited. If you are really a Vedic

astrologer then why are you shying in proper interaction on astrology?//

>

> IÂ don't remember of hvg recieved any msg from u, but if I hv missed it, pls

resend the same for my reply

>

> //But if you are claiming that astrology is a science or vedic then you must

have some argument in support of it except mindset or echoing some useless

sentences. Because these (at least our) forums are meant for interaction and

exchange of views.//

>

> By interaction & sharing our views we increase our knowledge & vedic

shashtras, it can be astrology, are mainly aimed to discuss our views to

increase our knowledge & gain some possible wisdom..Â

>

> //Yes, How you can say that only a believer in astrology can believe in Dharm?

So do you mean to say that if I am not believing astrology then I am adharmik.

Am I exploiting the ignorance of simple people or I am I doing some work against

the law of the land or religion? Or is in your views those ignorant persons are

religious who are completely confused and lost their selfconfidence and sitting

in front of some astrologer for socalled peeping in the future and trying to

befool almighty by wearing some gem etc. and involved in all sort of anti-social

activities.//

>

> Sanat Ji pls read my mail carefully, I hv mentioned very clearly what Dharma

meant in respect of the statement made by me. I am reproducing the same for ur

information. " " A native who believes inÂ astrology Â also has faith in Dharma, a

native who is non believer ofÂ Astrology is also a non believer ofÂ Dharma.

Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We execute our karma

as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our birth. " "

> If u r casting any doubts on applicability of the vedic science, then I am

wondering why do u call this forum as SCIENCEOFASTROLOGY.

>

> HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGERÂ CELL +919867214103

> Â

>

> ________________________________

> sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain

>

> Thursday, 19 March, 2009 11:20:25 PM

> Re: " Vedic astrologers " read dharmashastras

upside down!

>

> Dear Nathani ji,

> Namaskar,

> We in the forum received your msg. after a very long time. Thanks for

reappearing.

>

> I will like to draw your kind attention on my msg dated 2-10-08. Your

observation on some points are still awaited. If you are really a Vedic

astrologer then why are you shying in proper interaction on astrology? I am not

asking you to stop your business, as I have intimated you earlier that you have

every right to exploit ignorant. But if you are claiming that astrology is a

science or vedic then you must have some argument in support of it except

mindset or echoing some useless sentences. Because these (at least our) forums

are meant for interaction and exchange of views. In Primitive age too, our sages

never tried to skip any shastrath, then why are you afraid, because you have not

formulated the principles then where is the necessity for linking your self with

these principles. In science every research is always under the lens and open

for discussion. I hope you will like to read my original book on line in Google

book library.

>

> Yes, How you can say that only a believer in astrology can believe in Dharm?

So do you mean to say that if I am not believing astrology then I am adharmik.

Am I exploiting the ignorance of simple people or I am I doing some work against

the law of the land or religion? Or is in your views those ignorant persons are

religious who are completely confused and lost their selfconfidence and sitting

in front of some astrologer for socalled peeping in the future and trying to

befool almighty by wearing some gem etc.. and involved in all sort of

anti-social activities.

>

> Shri Kaul ji will certainly offer his comments on your msg.

>

> Hope you will not take my msg as personally because I am only interested in

academic interaction and my msg is also in the same tune.

>

> Hope to receive your comments

>

> Thanking you,

>

> Yours truly,

>

> Sanat.

>

> PS: Welcome to all new members and I hope they may have gone through my blog

" Astrology a science or myth " in file section. I invite everyone to share their

opinion, views, stand, comments etc. on any point raised in the blog or in

various earlier msgs. Their msgs. will not be moderated as this forum is open to

all for sharing the academic views and members will themselves maintain the

dignity of the forum.

>

> , " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani "

<haresh1405@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear A K Kaul

> >

> > It will be advisable to get your horoscope checkedÂ from a bonafied &

professional Vedic Astrologer so as to ascertain what planets provoke these kind

of thoughts in ur mind. A native who believes inÂ astrology Â also has faith in

Dharma, a native who is non believer ofÂ Astrology is also a non believer

ofÂ Dharma. Dharma over here is in respective to our Karma we execute. We

execute our karma as per the planets placed in our kundali at the time of our

birth.

> >

> > Then what is the point of pointing & Â highlightingÂ about Manav Dharma.

ForÂ Manu, Dharma & Astrology go vis-a-vis. Manav is incomplete without Dharma &

Astrology. Dharma, Karma,Â Kama & Moksha are integral part of Manu.

> >

> > Astrology & Panchang go togather. Without Panchang astrology is incomplete &

with out Astrology Panchang is incomplete. They move like two parallel tracks on

which a train moves.

> >

> > Astrology has various streams, and an astrologer chooses the stream in which

he understands better & is comfortable with. Streams of astrology are varied.

Palmistry, Nakshatra(KP) system, face reading, thumb reading, Nadi Shashtra,

Samudrik Shashtra, Vedic Astrology, Numerology, Prashna Jyotish, and many more

are part & parcel of astrology.

> >

> > Astrology is aÂ perfect science. it does not fails, it is the astrologer who

fails to understand astrology in its correct form & gives wrong analysis.

Astrology is notÂ at fault, it is the astrologer who is at fault. No astrologer

can alsoÂ be perfect as astrologer is also humanÂ and God has never made Man as

a perfect living being.

> >

> > An astrologer always follows the devised science & goesÂ by its results, but

here the astrologer also fails in understanding & readingÂ the effect of the

system onÂ the nativesÂ life, as the astrolger doÂ not work on theÂ actual

result in doing research. ThisÂ is the most sensitive area in astrology &

because of his failure in doing proper research on the effects of planets &

dashas on the native, astrology thus fails & people loosse hope & faith in

astrology.

> >

> > Astrological science is an ocean which is made up of just 9 planets & 12

bhavs. This is where it excells as a handful of planets & bhavs makes this

science an ocean.

> > Â

> > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGERÂ CELL +919867214103

> > Â

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > jyotirved <jyotirved@ ..>

> > Tuesday, 17 March, 2009 6:13:03 PM

> > " Vedic astrologers " read dharmashastras

upside down!

> >

> > Â

> > Dear friends,

> > Namaskar!

> > A common question I am often asked is, â€œWhy are you against â€˜Vedic

astrologyâ€™Â and not against other predictive methods like palmistry, Tarot

etc. etc.Â Do you believe in them " ?.Â The answer isÂ an emphatic no. Then why

am I against â€œVedic astrologyâ€ alone?

> > â€œVedic astrologyâ€ and Vedic calendar have an inherent mutual conflict!

> > As is common knowledge by now, there is a direct conflict between Mesha,

Vrisha Â etc. rashi based jyotisha, whether sayana or nirayana,Â and the real

Vedic calendar, since there are no Mesha etc. rashis (nor Mangal, Shani etc.

planets) but only Madhu, Madhava etc.. months, tithi, nakshatras and Udgayana

etc. phenomena in the Vedas,Â Brahnmanas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. whereas

â€œVedic astrologyâ€ cannot survive without Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc.

planets.Â â€œVedic astrologersâ€ are imposing those very imaginary rashis

-ï¿½ï¿½ " zodiac means an imaginary â€œcircle of animals!â€---on the Hindu

calendar dictating simultaneously that even if there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in

the Vedas or the Vedanga jyotisha etc., we must celebrate all the Vedic,

Pauranic andgeographic/ seasonal festivals like Uttarayana, Vasanta Navratra or

Sharadiya Navratra etc. on days suggested by â€œLahiri jyotishisâ€ and not the

Vedanga Jyotisha or the Puranas or even

> > geographical phenomena etc.!

> > â€œVedic astrologersâ€ never quote the exact references in spite of

repeated reminders!

> > To continue their opposition to the real Vedic calendar because of its