Secrets of the Earth!

[Guest guest]

Shri Vinay Jha ji,

Namaskar!

Many thanks for your response.

<Overwhelming majority of supporters of modern science

are atheists like you,>

If everyone who does not believe in predictive gimmicks is

an atheist then Aryasamajis are atheists and Swami Dayanada Sarasvati, their

founder, must be the greatest atheist because he called jyotishis as Popejis!

(I am no Aryasmaji, though!)

Even yogi Ramadev of Patanjala Yoga Peetha, Haridwar, is

very sore with jyotishis, because, instead of following the Patanajala yoga to

remove their ailments and other miseries, they want their clients to remove Kalasarpa-dosha

and what not supposed to have been created by non-existent mathematical points

viz. Rahu/Kethu.  Is he also an ahtiest?

<You are pushing modern definitions upon ancient terms

just to make those terms meaningless.>

No.  You are absolutely wrong! I find, on the other hand,

modern sciences giving a better explanation of ancient Indian philosophies

which are difficult for a layman to understand!  For example, I could not

understand as to how jala-tatva could be an amalgam of agni-tatva and vayu-tatva

but when I read the formula for water as H2O, I was wonder struck!  H2 is

combustible and O supporter of combustion—agni-tatva--- and the two form

a chemical compound called Water (jala-tatva)! And H2 and O, both are gases

i.e. Vayu!  That means Agni-tatva itself is an amalgam of Vayu, since H2 and O,

are nothing but Vayu! My God! So how can we say that science is teaching

something against Hindu philosophy and making us atheists!

Similarly, I could never have believed the phantasmagoria

of Yogavasishtha Maharamayana that not only is this universe of ours a

“boundless” (even if finite!) entity, but there are literally

infinite such other universes and even anti-universes!  It was only modern

astrophysics that made me realize that Vasishtha Muni was telling Truth and

nothing but Truth!

When I read in the Vedas/Upanishadas that the vast

universe we live in, with all its trillions of galaxies, is  also a

phantasmagoria, I could never believe it but when the same Truth was explained

by E=MC squared, it was a revelation to me that the Universe was nothing but

Energy---a “physical phantasmagoria”.

 I suggest you go through Yogavasishtha Maharamayana and

you will realize for yourself that modern sciences strengthen our faith in our

Vedas and Hindu philosophies, instead of making us atheists!

A living example is modern giant of Astrophysics, Prof.

Jayant Narlikar, who also does not believe in predictive gimmicks!  But then he

is no atheist by any standards!

<but overwhelming majority of creators of modern

science were believers like Newton,

Einstein, Shroedinger, etc.>

There is no recorded evidence to show that they believed

in astrology!  And if those “creators of modern science” did

believe in astrology, as claimed by you, that means Hindu astrology is

completely bunkum even then since Newton, Einstein and Schroedinger must have

been getting their charts delineated, if at all they got them delineated,

through so called Sayana Rashichakra and Secondary Progressions and found the

delineations correct, so as to be interested in astrology!  And since the so

called Vedic astrology is anything but so called sayana, and going by imaginary

dasha-bhjuktis, apart from Greek yogas like Sunapha, Anapha, Durduhura and

Greek amshas like Dreshkana and Greek bhavas like Panaphara, Apoklima etc.,

that means the so called nirayana rashichakra  with all the Greek terminology has

no support from any scientist listed by you!

<Root of the problem with you and most of persons like

you lies in the fact that material objects of sky are regarded as planets, and

it is forgotten that in ancient Indian astrology grahas were regarded as

deities and were therefore conscious non-material elements.>

I agree with you cent per cent that “grahas”

in ancient India

were deities and conscious non-material elements!  Brihaspati in the Vedas and

Puranas has been said to be the preceptor of gods. Shani, as per the Puranas,

is the son of Chhaya and Sun, and not a dead planet moving in the skies with

rings around it!  Mangal is the son of Narkasura and prithvi and not the planet

Mars that jyotishis are trying to propitiate on every Tuesday!  Budha is the

illegitimate child of Moon and Tara, the wife of Brihaspati. What has that Budha

to do with planet Mercury! Shukra is one-eyed and is the preceptor of Asuras.  How

can the dead planet named Venus be the preceptor of asuras! The Pauranic entities

certainly are deities.

And it is “Vedic astrologers” and neither

scientists nor me, who are denigrating the deities by confusing them with

wandering namesake inanimate objects!   Otherwise why are you calculating the

" longitudes " (sic!) of those deities with the help of JPL/NASA?  How

can you keep a tab on those deities as to what the “Devanam guruh”

is doing or where the deities are by knowing as to where an inanimate wandering

body that is also the name sake of Jupiter or Saturn or Mars Jupiter and so on,

is?

The astronomical qualities of none of the planets tally

with what our shastras have said about the qualities of deities!  As such, it

is, again, “Vedic astrologers” and not me, who are completely

confusing deities with inanimate wandering bodies, which are always hammered by

one or the other comet or meteorite or satellite and so on!  If those inanimate

wandering bodies do not know their own future nor can they prevent any mishaps

to their own “persona”, how can they predict my future or that of

my country or ward off my evils?

<If you can put aside your physical astronomy for a

while and try to test astrology on the basis of Phalita part,>

I have put aside physical astronomy already!  That is why

I go on shouting from housetops that we must not believe in inanimate name sake

bodies of our deities of Jupiter etc. We must develop highly spiritual and

intuitive machinery to seek the help of the real deities and not inanimate

wandering bodies to peep into the future, if we will be interested in doing so

at all even after attaining spiritual heights really!

<Are you ready to apply an unbiased scientific method

to astrology before discarding it out-and-out ???>

I hope it is the most unbiased scientific approach to

segregate our scriptural deities from inanimate wandering bodies instead of

subjecting our spiritual deities also to the tyranny of JPL and NASA!  What is

also most injurious to the Vedic and Pauranic culture is subjecting divine

Incarnations like Bhagwan Rama and Krishna etc. to the suzerainty of these

inanimate bodies----who are like “Eyeless in Gaza”

themselves—and that also on the basis of calculations of JPL/NASA.

Our shastras have said “devo bhootva yajet devan, na

adevo devam yajet”.  i.e., “to worship a deva you must become a

deva first yourself.  You must not worship devas without becoming a deva

yourself”.  As such, if we really want to understand the

“Brhaspati” that has been addressed to in the Vedic mantras with

requests, “sham no brihaspatir dadhatu”, we must become Brihaspati

ourselves first.  And instead of becoming “devanam guruh” if you

want to become a wandering inanimate body, bombarded by comets like

Schumacher-Levi, who is going to stop you! But then I would not advise such a

course to any of my friends!

Our Rishis like the Manu, Atri and Bhishma have in fact

warned that the ones who run after namesake Brihaspati etc. instead of the real

deities are nakshatra-soochis/nakshara-jeevis!  Chanakya also has advised kings

that they should not “enquire too much about nakshatras” since the

wandering nakshatras cannot do anything, being “inanimate”

themselves!

Anyway, since we are living in a democracy and nobody can

stop anybody from putting everything at stake for some inanimate wandering

bodies, I hope You will agree with me that at least the wandering bodies Mars,

Saturn and Mercury etc. are not at all related to geographical phenomena like

the two Solstices and two equinoxes, which are the fulcrum of the Vedic months

Madhu, Madhava etc. around which circumnavigate our festivals and muhurtas and

the synodic lunar months.

Why not, as such, leave at least the Vedic calendar alone!

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

PS

I shall be out of town for about a week or so.  Pl. bear

with me if u don’t get a response to ur mail, if any.

AKK

InIndian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest ,

" vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Kaul Jee,

>

> You are pushing modern definitions upon ancient terms

just to make those terms meaningless. Overwhelming majority of supporters of

modern science are atheists like you, but overwhelming majority of creators of

modern science were believers like Newton,

Einstein, Shroedinger, etc.

>

> Root of the problem with you and most of persons like

you lies in the fact that material objects of sky are regarded as planets, and

it is forgotten that in ancient Indian astrology grahas were regarded as

deities and were therefore conscious non-material elements. Imposition of

modern physical astronomy upon non-physical discipline causes all the trouble.

Persons like you are adamant on not testing the validity of astrology on

astrological grounds, ie, on the basis of its predictive part Phalita Jyotisha,

and are intent on testing it on the basis of physical astronomy alone. This is

mere prejudice.

>

> If you can put aside your physical astronomy for a

while and try to test astroloy on the basis of Phalita part, a whole new world

will open upto you. Are you ready to apply an unbiased scientific method to

astrology before discarding it out-and-out ???

>

> -VJ

>

>

> --- In

Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , " jyotirved "

<jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > 

> >

> > Shri Robert E. Wilkinsonji,

> >

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > I have gone through your message (#2681 of March

23 in the WAVES-VEDIC

> > forum) i.e. the Q & A session of your mentor

several times. Since it is a

> > topic about reforming the Hindu calendar, I

thought it better to record my

> > views.

> >

> > The Q & A session is actually about the

zodiac, its types and divisions

> > vis-à-vis predictive astrology and the Vedic

calendar and even divine

> > incarnations and consists of such

questions/answers as:

> >

> > " Q. Astrology has become mostly a

predictive art. What happened that we lost

> > the connection to the zodiac as a script for

understanding the Earth's

> > evolution? " .

> >

> > And the answer to this question by your mentor

is

> >

> > A. In the course of discovery a great revelation

took place millennia

> > ago. This was the zodiac just as we know it

today. The method to preserve

> > this knowledge over vast cycles of time was to

use the human being's thirst

> > for knowing the future; and this script is a

source of knowledge of destiny

> > for the individual, as well as for the species

as a whole. The zodiac is

> > indeed the `horoscope' of the Earth, and it can

be `read' just as one would

> > read of the character and destiny of a person

from his or her natal chart.

> > This thirst for knowing the future was one

method to preserve the Script

> > (the 12 hieroglyphs) down the ages, especially

through periods when it was

> > dangerous to teach the Tradition openly.

> >

> > 

> >

> > The whole edifice of discussion in the entire Q

& A session is thus

> > revolving around zodiac, its types and its

utility vis-à-vis the Avataras of

> > Vishnu, human evolution and so on, besides of

course, the predictive part

> > and the Vedic calendar.

> >

> > Your mentor has made very valiant attempts,

claiming that , " Most people

> > today, and in this I include astrologers,

pundits of various schools,

> > cosmologists, and so forth, have not been

initiated into the art I will

> > describe. They have not undergone the discipline

(sadhana) required to

> > reveal certain timeless truths. Many millennia

ago a wiseman (or woman, more

> > likely) did undergo the discipline I am

referring to "

> >

> > However, what is a jarring note in all this Q

& A session is that the word

> > zodiac has not been defined at all!  As such, we

have to get the basic

> > records first and only then we can proceed

further.  The definition of

> > " Zodiac " as per Oxford English

Dictionary is, " An imaginary belt in the

> > heavens, about 18° wide, through which the

ecliptic passes centrally and

> > which forms the background of the motions of the

sun, moon and planets " .

> > And the definition of " Ecliptic " as

per the same dictionary is, " The

> > apparent path of the sun's annual motion among

the stars " .  And the meaning

> > of the word " apparent " as per the same

dictionary is, " That maybe seen;

> > distinguished from true or from mean " .  And

as a student of primary school

> > geography knows, " the sun is

stationary " and only appears to move (apparent

> > motion!)! 

> >

> > All this lengthy Q & A session therefore

boils down to the simple fact that

> > much ado has been made about something that is

an " imaginary belt through

> > which passes an Apparent path of the fictitious

movement of stationary sun " .

> >

> > Then a lot of " Tapasya " and

" yoga " has been discussed/involved regarding the

> > same " imaginary belt " also known as

" circle of animals " having twelve equal

> > " animals " like Bull and Goat (or is it

a Crocodile!) and Lion and so on! And

> > then further hair-splitting has been done about

whether that " imaginary

> > circle of animals " is a moving one (so

called sayana!) or an immovable one

> > (so called nirayana!).

> >

> > Tapasyas sometimes do result in hallucinations

when some tapasvis see a

> > " Scorpio " equal to a " Lion "

and so on. Such hallucinations may in fact be

> > essential for delineating intangible things like

the future of nations or

> > even of individual human beings!  Sometimes such

hallucinations are called

> > intuition or even trances (samadhis) for

predictive purposes!  But so far as

> > the real Vedic calendar is concerned, I think it

should be left alone,

> > without being burdened by " Scorpions "

and " Goats " and " Twins " etc. etc. –

> > all of which are supposed to be of equal size!

> >

> > In fact, the real Vedic calendar never bothered

about such " animals " or " the

> > circle of animals " and it was based on

Madhu, Madhava etc. months, which got

> > subsumed in/combined with phenomena like Vasanta

Sampat, Uttarayana and so

> > on.

> >

> > Madhu, the first day of Vasanta Ritu, means

honey.  So why burden it with

> > " Fishes " .  Similarly,

" Tapah " the first day of Shisira Ritu means " penance " .

> > That is also the day of Uttarayana.  Why thrust

a " Goat " or a " Crocodile " on

> > it?

> >

> > This will be clear from npj3.doc in the files

section.

> >

> > As per that document, since the real Vedic

calendar had been going on from

> > the time of the Rig-Veda till the time of

Acharya Sayana  without any

> > " Bulls " and " Rams " , why  burden

that calendar with such unnecessary

> > encumbrances now, all in the name of tapasya and

yoga etc. etc.?  Why not

> > keep those " moving Bulls " or

" stationary Goats " etc.  tethered to predictive

> > gimmicks alone! That is my humble request!

> >

> > With regards,

> >

> > A K Kaul

> >

>