Reference of Rashis in the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha!

[Guest guest]

Shri Ujagar Singh Wassanji,

Namaskar!

< This is a very good proposal from you. I

am glad that you have taken some initiative on this. May be you can give a

proposal to the WAVES Board and WAVES can organise a seminar / conference on

this theme in India or elsewhere. I think India will be better as most of

the scholars on Jyotish are in India.>

 

India has had at least a dozen “panchanga

standardization committees†right from nineteenth century till a few years

back.  S B Dikshit has discussed such committees in his “History of Indian

astronomy†in detail.  One of the most talked about committees is the one by

the Govt. of India in 1955 under the chairmanship of Dr. M. N. Saha.  It is

known as “Saha Calendar Reform Committeeâ€

Since such committees are by “Vedic astrologersâ€,

for “Vedic astrologersâ€Â  and of “Vedic astrologersâ€, one does not have to be a

jyotishi to predict the outcome of the next committee  that you may have!  You

will be back to square one and “almighty†Lahiri Ayanamsha will continue to be

adopted “unanimouslyâ€!  If you disagree on any point, you will be shouted down

and outvoted!

It was “almighty†Lahiri who had sabotaged the

Saha Calendar Reform Committee proceedings, just to keep the sales of his “Vishudha

Sidhanta Panjika†and “Lahiri’s Indian Ephemerisâ€.  You will have several “Lahirisâ€

in that committee and you will not be able to make any headway!

 

< Moreover several universities in India

has Jyotish courses>

Yes, it was “Bharatiya Jyotishi Party†euphemistically

known as Bharatiya Janata Party, that got predictive hocus-pocus introduced as “Vedic 

astrology†by UGC.  And you can see the results for yourself!  That party has

been in wilderness ever since they got “Vedic astrology†in the colleges!  It

has gone from bad to worse!  That is why all our shastras have warned against

running after nakshatra-soochis and nakshatra jeevis!  Even Chanakya was dead

against such fads.  But then “Bharatiya Jyotisha Party†had closed its ears to

sane advice, and would listen to only “Vedic astrologersâ€, on whose plea they

had advanced the Elections by several months, and thus had had a premature

death!  It can be said safely that they committed suicide on the advice of “Vedic

astrologersâ€.  The “Union Minister of Astrology†of Bhaatiya Jyotisha Party is

still in wilderness!  What a sad example of “Raja Yogasâ€.

 

<Rashis

are Nirayana and they are linked to the fixed nakshatras.

In the Vamana purana Pulastya very clearly tells that to

Narada. But some half-baked anti-Hindu scholars are insisting that ther Rashis

are of Tropical Zodiac. They wish to destroy the the vedic

iterature.>

 

It is requested to kindly quote the exact

references from Vamana Purana (which edition?) that talk of so called Nirayana

Rashis.

 

I am also sending you a copy of BVB6. etc. separately,

and leave it to you to decide as to who is destroying the “Vedic literatureâ€.

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

 

On Sun, 6/14/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya

Vedic_research_institute  wrote:

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: [Abhinavagupta] References of Rashis in the

Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha?

" Ujjagar Singh Wassan " <uswassan

Sunday, June 14, 2009, 3:30 AM

 

 

 

Dear Shri Wassanji,

 

Namaste,

 

This is a very good proposal from you. I am

glad that you have taken some initiative on this. May be you can give a

proposal to the WAVES Board and WAVES can organise a seminar / conference on

this theme in India or elsewhere. I think India will be better as most

of the scholars on Jyotish are in India. Moreover several

universities in India has Jyotish courses. Rashis

are Nirayana and they are linked to the fixed

nakshatras. In the Vamana purana Pulastya very clearly

tells that to Narada. But some half-baked anti-Hindu scholars are insisting

that ther Rashis are of Tropical Zodiac. They wish to destroy the

the vedic iterature.

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

ngh Wassan <uswassan wrote:

 

Ujjagar Singh Wassan <uswassan

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: [Abhinavagupta] References of Rashis in the

Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha?

Abhinavagupta , " Sunil Bhattacharjya "

<sunil_bhattacharjya

Cc: , ,

vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute ,

indiaarchaeology , ,

USBrahmins , waves-vedic

Thursday, June 11, 2009, 9:02 AM

 

 

 

Dear Veda Interested Audience

May be somebody should compile all the

contemporary comments and have a discussion at meeting. It is too important

a topic to let it go waste. Interested please cooperate. Best wishes.

Ujjagar Singh Wassan

 

--- On Thu, 6/11/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

 

Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya

[WAVES-Vedic] Re: [Abhinavagupta] References of Rashis in the

Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha?

Abhinavagupta

Cc: , ,

vedic astrology , vedic_research_institute ,

indiaarchaeology , ,

USBrahmins , waves-vedic

Thursday, June 11, 2009, 1:37 AM

 

 

 

Dear friends,

 

The Rashis are mentioned in the

Vedas and Vedanga Jyotisha as shown in my earlier mail. Rashis are also

given in the Bhagavata Purana. As the Vedic verses are cryptic in

nature everybody may not be able to understand these verses

and this was deliberately made so such that anybody wihout proper

education and training should not be able to understand all the meanings

of the verses. One may not be able to understand that the

names such as Vrshava and Kumbha, mentioned in the Veda are the

names of the Rashis. Though Agastya was born from the womb of

Havirbhoo in the Kumbha rashi one can still contest this and

say that as Kumbha means a pitcher, and therefore Agastya

must have been born in a pitcher and not in the womb of Havirbhoo. But no

such problem exists in the Bhagavata Purana, where the Rashis are very

clearly mentioned and all those persons, who want to prove that

Hindus did not know about Rashi till the Greeks taught them, always

carefully avoid making any reference to the Bhagavata

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

jyotirved

[jyotirved]

Monday, June 29, 2009 6:50 PM

'abhinavagupta '

Reference of Rashis in the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha!

 

 

 

Shri Shivraj Khokraji,

Namaskar!

Many thanks for your

response.

You have said

“After reading this

mantra and understanding it, you have to answer this question: a) Did Vedic

Hindus wait for 1000 years for the arrival of Alexandrian Greeks in 323 B.C to

name the 12 " spokes " of the Sun's journey?â€

It is really an interesting question with

far reaching ramifications. As such, pl. bear with me for a longish

answer!

My tryst with jyotisha

I have been hearing and talking about Mesha,

Vrisha etc. rashis from my childhood! My maternal grandfather would often

say that because my moon was in Vrishabaha, I would be undergoing “Badhsarwarâ€

(i.e. Sade-Sati---7.5 years’ “elarataâ€!) whenever Shani transited Mesha, Vrisha

and Mithuna. There were discussions with other jyotishis about the

lordship of rashis and so on.

When I was without a job for a considerable

period in J & K, I consulted quite a few jyotishis there, and all I was told

was that my so and so planet was neecha or my so and so planet was uchha and so

on and as soon as such and such dasha ended, the problem would end!

I had been to the famous Brighu Samhita-walas on Railway Road, Jullundur, and

then Hoshiarpur, and they even traced my birth chart in the mass of documents

that they had. My previous birth also was “revealed†to me by those

samhita-walas, but they did not agree with one another on that count

either---According to Jullunder Brighu Jyotishi I was a king in my previous

birth but had not done Puja to Shiva, and that was why I was “sufferingâ€.

As per Hoshiarpur Brighu Jyotishi, I was a priest in a temple and had taken

wine in temple premises and that was the reason for my suffering! Besides, the

remedial measures advised by both the Brighu Jyotishis were nothing but ludicrous!

Thus, till a few years back, I was myself

obsessed with these Mesha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets! However,

my personal experience with all those bhavishyavanis of all those jyotishis and

Samhita-walas has not been a fruitful one since they were hardly any correct

than a mere chance. To have a first-hand knowledge of jyotisha

shastra, I learnt it by heart---both the Indian and Western systems. Some

of my bhavishyavanis also did prove correct to the extent that I was awarded

the famous NOSTRADAMUS award, sponsored by EXPRESS STAR TELLER, by none other

than His Holiness Jagadguru Jayendra Saraswati of Kanchi Kamakoti!

As such, you can rest assured that you are

discussing the issue with some one who knows what he is talking about.

Astronomically Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis

are non-exisent! Thus

Having got disappointed with predictions,

and having been a science student with a keen interest in astronomy, I wanted

to find the scientific reason behind the failure of bhavishyavanis, as it was

known as “science of astrology†and was supposed to be based on astronomy.

I was peeved to see that rashis are

non-existent in any astronomical work! It was also made very clear in

astronomy books that there were no twelve equal divisions of the zodiac! On top

of this, the definition of the zodiac itself, as per Oxford English Dictionary,

is, “An imaginary belt in the heavens about 18° wide, through which the

ecliptic passes centrally, and which forms the background of the motions of the

sun, moon, and planets; it is divided into twelve equal parts of 30° called

signs of the zodiac, named from the constellations that once corresponded to

them but do so no longerâ€. And the definition of ecliptic, as per the

same dictionary, is, “The apparent path of sun’s motion among the fixed

starsâ€. The literal meaning of the word Zodiac is actually a derivative

of the Greek word “Zodiakos†i.e. “circle of animalsâ€.

Here is the conundrum: It is common

knowledge that the sun does not move (revolve) round the earth but it is the

other way round!

Thus you can say that Mesha, Vrisha etc.

rashis are twelve imaginary “animal†divisions of a still more imaginary belt

which is supposed to be the “apparent path†of a body that never moves---at

least not in the sense that it is supposed to be moving!

Mesha etc. rashis have no

utility besides predictive gimmicks and there is nothing more ridiculous

than “jyotisha scienceâ€!

On pondering on all these

definitions, I was constrained to try to understand the purpose of these Mesha,

Vrisha etc. Rashis, especially since no astronomy book every used them.

And all I could understand was

that except for being used by astrologers, some of whom call themselves “Vedic

astrologersâ€, others “tantric astrologers†and still others as “occultists†and

so on, Mesha, Vrisha etc rashis have absolutely no use and purpose!

Come to think of it: It

is said that Mesha (the imaginary twelfth part, supposed to be resembling a

Ram, of an imaginary belt!) is owned by Mangal i.e. Mars! In spite of

having read a lot of science fiction stories like “War of the Worlds†about

Mars and Martian people, the sad fact remains that it is after all an inanimate

roaming body---known as a planet just as the earth is! Astronomically the

planet Mars has absolutely nothing resembling the Mangal of

jyotishis! It is as hapless and helpless a planet as any other in facing

the assaults of satellites and what not! And to say that it “owns†an

imaginary part of an imaginary belt is actually the real (and not apparent!)

proof of jyotishis having gone off their senses! And since most of us are

jyotihsis, it means most of us are still more gullible than scientific in spite

of living in the 21st century!

Let us take the case of the

Moon, which is said to be in Vrishaba in my case! It is supposed to be

exalted in that sign! Now, as you must be aware, Moon has been assaulted

(invaded!) the most by people like you and me! We are even thinking of

colonizing it! That means, maybe after a few years, I may actually own a

part of that planet (?!), if I have that much of wealth and am still around

till then!

Now this Moon is supposed to be

the owner of the fourth imaginary part (of the same imaginary belt!) known as

sign Karkata---a Crab-----yet another animal! And the Moon being what it

is---a dead and wandering body---a pigmy as compared to giants like Jupiter

etc.---is supposed to own as much as one-twelfth portion of the entire

“eclipticâ€---nay even the zodiac—the imaginary belt of animals! It is

also supposed to be exalted as well as mulatrikona---whatever that may

mean----in the second imaginary division i.e. Vrishaba (The Bull---yet another

animal) of the same imaginary belt! It is also supposed to be

neecha---debilitated in the imaginary division of Vrischika (Scorpion---another

animal) of the same imaginary belt owned by none other than Mars! There

are thus several inanimate planets like Brihaspati, Shani etc. which own two

imaginary “equal divisions†of “unequal animals†like Ram and Scorpion of the

imaginary belt known as zodiac! And these inanimate wandering bodies are

also supposed to have enmity or friendship with one another! Moon is the

friend of Mercury, but Mercury is its enemy! Mars is the friend of the

sun but an enemy of Saturn and so on!

None of the planets has astronomically

anything resembling the qualities of planets adumbrated in jyotisha shastras!

Lunar nodes are mathematical

points astronomically, without any existence whatsoever, but astrologically

they are the most dreaded ones, and Kethu, the Southern Node of the Moon, is

said to be mokshakarka----dispenser of Mukti---Acme of our lives according to

all the Vedas etc.

And even these mathematical

points are said to own Kanya (Virign!) and Mina (fishes) rashis!

Then on top of it, we have to

divide that imaginary “Rams†and “Bull†etc. further into imaginary

sub-divisions like nakshatras, dreshkanas, saptamshas, trimshamshas and even

shashtyamshas i.e. one-sixtieth part of the twelfth part of the imaginary

animal! And each shashtyamsha will be having an ownership by one or the

other planet like Shani, Brihaspati etc. etc.

Then the results of my karma

will be dispensed by these inanimate owners of imaginary divisions through one

of the Dasha-bhuktis like Vimshotari, Ashtotari, Yogini, Kala-chakra, Manduka,

Pluta, Tribhona etc. etc. etc.---thirty six of them! These are besides the one

adumbrated by Varaha Mihira in his Brihat Jatakam.

Can there be anything more

ridiculous and laughable than such a “science†that you call jyotisha and that

is based on Rams and Bulls etc. etc.?

Vedic seers were no fools to be

taken in by predictive gimmicks!

Being a fan of Dr. B. V.

Raman, this discovery of non-existence or Rashis scientifically made me mad

because everybody was talking of “Vedic astrologyâ€, which means there must have

been rashis and planets in the Vedas! I decided to take the bull by the

horns and call astronomers liars and prove to them that the Vedic seers had

talked about nothing but Rashis and planets in all the four Vedas! I went

assiduously through all the four Vedas! However, I had to draw a blank

since I could not find any Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis there. The same fact

was confirmed by S. B. Dikshit in his magnum opus “History of Indian

astronomyâ€.

Let us see how:

The first indigenous astronomical

work that we have available as on date is Lagadha’s Rik-Jyotisham. There

is also a slightly later and larger version of the same work known as Yajur

Jyotisham. They are supposed to be of an era of around 1400 BCE.

Both these works neither talk

of Mesha etc. Rashis nor of Mangal, Shani etc. planets. Why?

Simply because no astronomical

work actually requires any Mesha etc. rashis for determining the phenomena like

Solstices, Equinoxes or Madhu, Madhava etc. months, Krittika etc. nakshatras

and so on, i.e. the main ingredients required for deciding the suitable timings

for yajnyas etc., for which purpose these works i.e. Rik and Yajur Jyotisham,

were “createdâ€.

All the scholars declare in

unison that there are no rashis in the Vedas and the VJ etc.

Except for a “Parokshya

Professorâ€, nobody has as yet “seen†any Rashis in any of the Vedas or these

astronomical works, but the claim of that “Professor†also is doubtful that he

has “seen†Mina Rashi in the fifth mantra of the Yajur Jyotisha! Even the translator

cum commentator, Dr. Suresh Chandra Mishra, Jyotish-acharya, of the Hindi

edition of 2005 of the Vedanga Jyotisha, published by a publisher of Darya

Ganj, New Delhi, has clarified it in no uncertain terms on page 50 that that

mantra is spurious, an interpolation, an addition by some “useless and good for

nothing fellow, which mars the complete sense of the entire

workâ€! Dr. Mishra has categorically clarified that there were

no rashis in India till the time of the VJ.

That impugned mantra is not available

in any edition of the Vedanga Jyotisha that has not called it as spurious or an

interpolation, whereas Dikshit has not discussed that mantra at all in his

“Bharatiya Jyotishaâ€.

Indigenous jyotisha works are

nakshatra (and not rashi) based.

Then we have indigenous works

on predictive astrology of pre-Surya Sidhanta era, known as

Atharva-Veda-Parishishita and another disputed work known as Atharva Jyotisha

or Atma Jyotisha. Both these works talk a lot of Mangal, Shani etc.

planets but only vis-à-vis Krittika etc. nakshatras and not Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis! They are of about 5th century BCE.

No weekdays (varas) in any of

the Veda or the VJ etc.

It may be news to you that we

do not find any mention of any weekdays like Chandravara or Mangalvara etc. in

any of the Vedas or the VJ or the Atharva-Veda Parishishta nor, much to the

chagrin of jyotishis, in any of the Puranas, least of all the itihasas,

either! The weekdays also are direct imports from some other

country---probably Greece—in around fifth century BCE!

No Observatory uses Mesha etc.

rashis

I do not know whether you know

that no Observatory the world over, whether Greenwich or NASA, even our

Positional Astronomy Centre at Kolkatta, talks even obliquely of any equal

divisions of Aries, Taurus etc. astrological signs (Rashis) in any of its

works! The planetary longitudes given by these observatories in their

ephemerides are in degrees from 0.00001 to 359.99999 degrees, and latitude

North or South, or in Right Ascensions (Hours, mts. Seconds) and

Declinations! In other words, no astronomical body has any use for Mesha

etc. rashis!

Rashis are found for the first

time in the Surya Sidhanta

It is for the first time that

we come across Mesha etc. rashis in the Surya Sidhanta of

Panchasidhantika! And that Surya Sidhanta is by none other than Maya the

mlechha! A Greek jyotishi! And that makes the cat out of the bag!

Vedic Seers were not imported

Vamadevas and therefore, did not need rashis at all!

So the simple answer to your

question as to “Did

Vedic Hindus wait for 1000 years for the arrival of Alexandrian Greeks in 323

B.C to name the 12 " spokes " of the Sun's journey?†is that the Vedic

Hindus were real scientists and they did not believe in imaginary twelve equal

animal divisions of an imaginary belt which have absolutely no scientific value

or use for any purpose and which are supposed to be owned by inanimate bodies

like Mangal, Shani etc. Since the Vedic Seers, unlike videshi

“Vamadevasâ€, never believed in predictive gimmicks, they did not need the curse

known as Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis! As such, there was no need for the

Vedic seers to touch Rashis even with a barge pole! They had already

named the twelve months of the year, which you call “spokes of the sun’s

journeyâ€, as Tapah, Tapasya etc.

That is why Acharya Lagadha

also has not touched predictive gimmicks at all! It is only around

fifth/sixth century BCE, that we hear about planetary predictive gimmicks but

that also is only vis-à-vis nakshatras and not Mesha etc. Rashis! And

that is why all such “jugglers†were known as “nakshatra-soochis†and/or

“nakshatra-jeevis†and not “Rashi suchakas†then.

Similarly, except for the

“Parokshya Professor†nobody has “seen†Mesha etc. Rashis in the Mahabharata

either, simply because whatever phalita jyotisha had crept into Indian ethos

under the influence of foreign elements till then was only vis-à-vis nakshatras

and there were no Mesha etc. Rashis!

The real well wishers of the

Hindus like the Manu, the Bhishma Pitamaha, Atri Rishi etc. etc. have warned in

no uncertain terms that the jyotishis who were known as nakshatra soochis were

to be debarred from any holy function and were to be treated as chandalas even

if they were Brahmins! Chanakya has gone to the extent of warning a king

that by making enquiries about naksshatras the king would deviate from his aim

and thus be defeated by his enemies!

Am I “Twins†or “Crab†or a

“Bullâ€? NO, “I am Thatâ€

My grandpa told me that since

my moon was in Vrishabha, I was a Bull! He also told me that my sun

was in Gemini, which means I was Twins. But according to zero

ayanamshawallas, I am neither a Bull nor Twins but a Crab!

My God, it appears that I am

just an amalgam of all the animals of the animal kingdom, as per these

jyotishis! But then so must be the case with you and everybody

else! My eternal gratitude to the Vedic seers who did not call people

like you and me a Crab or a Scorpion etc., but declared it openly,

“Tat-tvam-asi-Shvetaketu†--- “You are That Infinite Himself, O

Shvetaketu†(or O AKK, for that matter!). Is it as to why I should be angry

with them and pity them? Or is it the reason for your being miffed that

the Vedic Hindus did not call you a “scorpion†or a “pitcher�

“Twelve spokes†in the Vedas

were not twelve Rashis

Thus the â€Twelve spokes†of the

Vedas were not twelve rashis. They were twelve months. It will be clear from

the following instances: There are several references to figure “twelveâ€

vis-à-vis Samvtsaras in the Vedas. “Tasmad-adityah shan-maso

dakshinenaiti shad-uttarena†(Taitiriya Samhita 6/5/2) “That is why the sun

moves for six months through Uttarayana and for six (months) through

Dakshinayanaâ€. It is very clear that the figure “twelve†is talking of

months and not rashis!

“Dvadasha masah panchartavo

hemanta shishiryoh samasena†(Aitreya Brahman 1/1) i.e. “Twelve months

comprise five seasons of which Hemanta and Shishira together form oneâ€.

Here also the “masah†(and not rashi) has been clearly mentioned.

Similarly, in the Rig-Veda

itself, there is the most famous mantra (1/25/8), “veda maso drita vratah…†(Pl.

see 1999b.pdf in files section) that talks of twelve solar months specifically

and also a thirteenth lunar adhika masa! There are also several other

mantras giving different names of the months, the most famous ones being, “madhushchai

madhavaschai vasantikav ritu…†(Taitiriya Samhita 4.4.11)

Had you perused 48th

mantra of the same Sukta of the Rig-veda that you have quoted, you would not have

got so impatient about attributing the creation of Mesha etc. Rashis to the

Vedic seers. Here is that mantra (1/164/48) “Dwadsha pradhayashchakram

ekam, treeninabhyani ka u tach-chiketai, tasmin sakam trishata na shankavo

arpitah shashtir na chalachalasahâ€.

And this is how Dikshit has

interpreted this mantra and also the one quoted by you, in his “History

of Indian Astronomy†page 18 of Part – I, “The wheel of time having twelve

spokes revolves round the heavens, but it does not wear out. Oh Agni, 720

pairs of sons ride this wheel. “Twelve spoke-boards, one wheel three

navels. Who understands these? In it there are 360 shankus (rods)

put in like pegs, which do not get loosenedâ€. According to Dikshit, “It

is clear that this curious description refers to year, the 12 months are 12

spokes of the wheel and the 360 days are the 360 nails. The day and night

is a couple of 360 such couples give the number 720â€.

Thus, in a nutshell, Vedic

seers, mercifully, and much to the chagrin of “Vedic astrologers†did not need

the curses known as Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis since the rashis have no other

purpose except to tell every Tom, Dick and Harry as to when his “Sade sati†or

his “Kalasarpa-Dosha†etc. etc. are going to begin or end!

Rashis in the Puranas are a ditto

copy of rashis in the sidhantas

If you peruse the document

“1999b.pdf†in files section, you will be surprised to see the similarity of

nomenclature as well as definition of Mesha etc. Rashis in the sidhantas and

Puranas! All the puranas talk in one voice that Makar Sankranti is the

shortest day of the year i.e. Uttarayana, Dakshiniyana, another name of the

Karkata Sankranti and so on. All the sidhantas also talk of the nakshatra

chakra starting from “zero†degrees just as they talk of Mesha etc. rashis

starting from zero degrees! Thus all the sidhantas and even Puranas have

clubbed nakshatras with the so called sayana rashis, and that is what the Vayu

Purana is also reflecting in 5.2 Thus the rashis in Puranas are an

after thought after the introduction of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha in

India.

The confusion named Mesha etc.

Rashis

We must also not forget that in

spite of having been using Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis ever since the advent of

Maya the mlechha, i.e. for about 2000 years, “Vedic Astrologers†are still

fighting among themselves like Kilkenny cats as to which ayanamsha they must

use for making “more accurate predictionsâ€.

The “Paroskhya Professorâ€, like

all the other “Vedic astrologers†says that the Vedic zodiac is sidereal i.e. it

starts from some star, but nobody, not even the jyotishis themselves, or the

“Parokshya Professor†himself, know as to from which star Mesha Rashi or

Ashvini nakshatra starts or should start!

Thus, do you mean to say that

the Vedic seers also should have been groping in darkness for the starting

point of the “imaginary belt†comprising “animals and nothing but animals�

“Vedic astrology†has rent us

asunder from our fasts and festivals etc.

And the net result of all this

has been that, thanks to Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, we have forgotten the

Udagayana and Vishuvas etc., the real Vedic phenomena, and are celebrating like

mad non-existent Lahiri and Ramana and Muladhara Makar Sankrantis and so

on! In other words, in spite of crying from housetops that Puranas are

talking of Mesha etc. Rashis and sankrantis, we are not celebrating even

Pauranic sankrantis! Why?

Either the “Vedic astrologersâ€

are blind like bats about the knowledge of the puranas or they are deliberately

celebrating a Lahiri Makar or Karka etc. sankranti, since if they celebrate

Makar Sankranti as the day of Uttarayana, as per all the Puranas, they will

lose their sinful crumbs as nobody will believe their astrological gimmicks

then!

And that is why I go on

repeating, “We do not need enemies to ruin our dharma, so long as we have

friendly ‘Vedic astrologers’ aroundâ€. It is really a sad thing that a

scholar like you should plead for non-existent rashis in the Vedas, instead of

fighting a dharma-yudha against these “Vedic astrologersâ€.

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

PS

The tail piece, yet the most

important fact, of the above discussion is that no jyotishi and/or samhita-wala

etc. etc. had ever even hinted that a time would come when I would expose the

“feet of clay†of “Vedic astrologersâ€. Tut, tut, tut!

 

[Response to

Shivraj Khokra's post (25 June 2009) at

Abhinavagupta/message/5214]

***                                                        ****                                                     ****                                                     ***

Abhinavagupta , Shivraj Khokra

wrote:

Re: References of Rashis in the

Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha.

 

Avtar Krishen Kaul

wrote:< If we read RgVedic Hymn: 1.164.11, it mentions " sun having

twelve spokes inhis wheel " .You have given neither the original mantra in

full nor a complete translationof the mantra. Why?

Here is the mantra

1.164.11 in Sanskrit:

 

दà¥Âवादशारं

नहि तजà¥Âजराय

वरà¥Âवरà¥Âति चकà¥Âरं परि

दà¥Âयामृतसà¥Âय ।

आ पà¥Âतà¥Âरा अगà¥Âने मिथà¥Âनासो

अतà¥Âर

सपà¥Âत शतानि

विंशतिशà¥Âच तसà¥Âथà¥Âः

॥११॥

Here is the link to Sanskrit version of 1.164.11:

http://wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A\

6:_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%82_%E0%A5%A7.%E0%A5%A7%E0\

%A5%AC%E0%A5%AA

Same mantra in English in case Sanskrit does not render on your screen (Try

turning on Unicode UTF-8 Character Encoding for your browser. For Fire-Fox

Mozilla based browsers it us under the " View " option)

11 dvaádashaaraM

nahí táj járaaya várvarti cakrám pári dyaám Rtásya

aá putraá agne mithunaáso átra saptá shataáni viMshatísh ca tasthuH

 

Translation:

1.164.11 The twelve-spoked wheel, of the sun revolves round the heavens, and

never (tends) to decay; seven hundred and twenty children in pairs, Agni, abide

in it.After reading this mantra and understanding it, you have to answer

this question:

a) Did Vedic Hindus

wait for 1000 years for the arrival of Alexandrian Greeks in

323 B.C to name the 12 " spokes " of the Sun's journey?

[Response to Avtar's post (23 June 2009) at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5207]

5214 June 25