FW: Proofs that Mesha etc. rashis were imported into India!

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jyotirved

[jyotirved]

Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:16 PM

'abhinavagupta '

Proofs that Mesha etc. rashis were imported into India!

 

 

 

Shri Shivraj Khokraji,

Namaskar!

You have said, in #5224,

“a) Did

Greeks, Irano-Chaldeans, etc., know about twelve fold division of the ecliptic

before the Vedic Hindus?

b) Did Greeks etc. use cosmos for predicting events prior to Vedic times?”

 

I am giving an

excerpt from my paper “Rashi5.pdf” which is in the files section of most of the

forums.

This will

clarif, beyond all the doubts, that the “zodiac was actually imported into

India”, as proved by Dr. Meghnad Saha, the eminent scientist, who headed the

1954 “(Saha) Calendar Reform Committee”

With regards,

A K Kaul

*****

******

******

******

******

The zodiac

and the signs: Links between the names of constellations and

astrological signs:

Here also an interesting question arises as to why did astrologers

“bestow” such names of equal divisions to unequal constellations!

In this regard we quote the actual words verbatim from pages 192-194 of the

Report of the Calendar Reform Committee, under the heading The zodiac and

the signs

“The early astronomers must have found that the sun’s path in the

heavens was almost fixed, while that of the moon, and of the planets, which

acquired for astrological reasons great importance from about 1200 BC, strayed

some degrees to the north and south of the ecliptic.

‘In case of the moon the deviation from the ecliptic was found to be not much

greater than 5 degrees, but some of the planets strayed much more; in the case

of Venus, her perpendicular distance from the ecliptic rises as high as 8 degrees.

So a belt was imagined straying about 9° north and 9° south of the ecliptic, in

which the planets would always remain in course of their movement. This

belt came to be known as the ‘Zodiac’.

‘The complete cycle of this belt was divided into 12 equal sectors each of 30°

and each sector called a ‘Sign’. The signs started with one of the points

of intersection of the ecliptic and the equator, and the first sign was called

‘Aries’ after the constellation of stars within it. The names of the

succeeding signs are given in Table No.8 on the next page, in which:

The first column gives the beginning and ending of the signs,

the vernal equinoctial point being taken as the origin.

The second column gives the international names which are in Latin with the

symbols used to denote the signs.

The third column gives their English equivalents.

The fourth column gives the Greek names. They are synonymous with the

international names.

The fifth column gives a set of alternative names for the signs given by

Varahamihira.

The sixth column gives the Indian names.

The seventh column gives the Babylonian names.

Table 8 --- Zodiacal Signs

 

 

 

Different names of zodiacal signs

 

 

 

 

1

 

 

2

 

 

3

 

 

4

 

 

5

 

 

6

 

 

7

 

 

 

 

Signs from to

 

 

Latin name

 

 

English

equival.

 

 

Greek name

 

 

Varaha-Mihira

 

 

Indian name

 

 

Babylonian

names & meaning

 

 

 

 

0

- 30

 

 

Aries

 

 

Ram

 

 

Krios

 

 

Kriya

 

 

Mesha

 

 

Ku / Iku (Ram)

 

 

 

 

30

- 60

 

 

Taurus

 

 

Bull

 

 

Tauros

 

 

Taburi

 

 

Vrishabha

 

 

Te-te (Bull)

 

 

 

 

60 - 90

 

 

Gemini

 

 

Twins

 

 

Didumoi

 

 

Jituma

 

 

Mithuna

 

 

Masmasu(Twins)

 

 

 

 

90 -120

 

 

Cancer

 

 

Crab

 

 

Karsinos

 

 

Kulira

 

 

Karkata

 

 

Nangaru (Crab)

 

 

 

 

120-150

 

 

Leo

 

 

Lion

 

 

Leon

 

 

Leya

 

 

Simha

 

 

Aru (Lion)

 

 

 

 

150-180

 

 

Virgo

 

 

Virgin

 

 

Parthenos

 

 

Pathona

 

 

Kanya

 

 

Ki (Virgin)

 

 

 

 

180-210

 

 

Libra

 

 

Balance

 

 

Zugos

 

 

Juka

 

 

Tula

 

 

Nuru (Scales)

 

 

 

 

210-240

 

 

Scorpio

 

 

Scorpion

 

 

Scorpios

 

 

Karupa

 

 

Vrischika

 

 

Akrabu(Scorpion

 

 

 

 

240-270

 

 

Sagittarius

 

 

Archer

 

 

Tozeutes

 

 

Tauksika

 

 

Dhanuh

 

 

Pa (Archer)

 

 

 

 

270-300

 

 

Capricorn

 

 

Goat

 

 

Ligoxeros

 

 

Akokara

 

 

Makara

 

 

Sahu (Goat)

 

 

 

 

300-330

 

 

Aquarius

 

 

Water Bearer

 

 

Gdroxoos

 

 

Hrdroga

 

 

Kumbha

 

 

Gu (Water carrier)

 

 

 

 

330-360

 

 

Pisces

 

 

Fish

 

 

Ichthues

 

 

Antyabhya

 

 

Mina

 

 

Zib (Fish)

 

 

 

It can be easily inferred from the (above) Table that the names are of

Babylonian origin, but their exact significance is not always known. ….

It is seen that Varahamihira’s alternative names given in column (5) are simply

the Greek names corrupted in course of transmission and as adopted for

Sanskrit; with the exception of the name for Scorpion, which is given as

‘Kaurpa’. This has phonetic analogy with the corresponding Babylonian

sign names Akrabu for Scorpion. The purely Sanskrit names given in column (6)

are all translations of Greek names with the exceptions of:

(3) Twin which become Mithuna or ‘Amorous Couple’.

(9) the Archer, which becomes the ‘Bow’,

(10) the Goat, which becomes the ‘Crocodile’

(11) Water bearer, which becomes the ‘Waterpot’.

Some of them appear to have been translations of Babylonian names.

The Babylonian names, as interpreted by F. K. Ginzel (in his

book—published in 1906--Handbuch der Mathematischen und Technischen

Chronologie, Bd. I. Leipzig) are given in the seventh column, with their

meanings.

It is thus seen that the names of the zodiacal signs are originally

of Babylonian origin. They were taken over almost without change by the

Greeks, and subsequently by the Romans, and the Hindus, from Graeco-Chaldean

astrology…..

“These signs were taken up by almost all nations in the centuries

before the Christian era on account of the significance attached to them by

astrologers. In Greece, they were first supposed to have been introduced

by the early Greek astronomer Cleostratos, an astronomer who observed about 532

BC in the island of Tenedos off the Hellespont who introduced the designation

‘Zodiac’ to describe the belt of stars about the ecliptic. The twelve

‘Zodiacal Signs’ are not known in older ritualistic Indian literature like the

Brahmanas. They appear to have come to India in the wake of the

Macedonian Greeks or of nations like the Sakas who were intermediaries for

transmission of Greek culture to India…..

“The hesitation of medieval astronomers in accepting precession can

be easily understood. Most of them earned their livelihood by practising

the ‘Astrological Cult’ which was reared on the basis that the signs of the

zodiac are fixed, and coincident with certain star-groups; but this assumption

crumbles to the ground if precession is accepted. But as historical

records now show, though astronomers had clearly recognised that the initial

point should be the point of intersection of the equator and the ecliptic,

there was no unanimity even amongst ancient astronomers of different ages

regarding the locationof this point in the heavens because it was not occupied

by any prominent star at any epoch and the ancients were unaware of the

importance of its motion”

 

Rashichakra

was imported into India from Babylon via the Greeks:

We have seen

that the so called Mesha etc. Rashichakra cannot be linked to any so called

sidereal i.e. constellational zodiac. So the only alternative left for

the Vedic Rishis was to have “invented” or discovered” a Rashichakra linked to

the seasonal months! Let us try to understand as to how sheepish our

Vedic Rishis would have looked today if they had really done so! We know

that the first month of the Vasanta Season is known as Madhu and the month of

Vernal Equinox as Madhav as per the Vedas. Let us suppose that these

months were also named Mina and Mesha by our Vedic Rishis! But then Mina

means a “Fish” and Mesha a “Ram” in Sanskrit and the question arises as to why

they would have named the months like that? Even our “extraordinarily

intelligent Vedic astronomers” cannot discern any resemblance between the

Spring season and “Fishes” or “Rams”!! Similarly, according to our “Vedic

astronomers” like Subhas Kak they had named Shukra as Vrisha (a Bull!) and

Shuchi as Mithuna i.e. ”an amorous couple”! We know that these two

months are of “Grishma” i.e Summer --- hardly having any

resemblance to either a “Bull” or “an amorous couple”. By the same logic why

should they have named Summer Solstice --- Nabhah -- as Karkata since it

does not at all look like a “Crab” nor does the month of Nabhasya (rains)

resemble at all a Simha - a “Lion!”. Similarly, the month of Isha

of Sharad Ritu has no resemblance to a Kanya – ” a Virgin”. The second month of

Sharad Ritu viz. Urja---the Autumn Equinox--- is the only month – rather the

only day when it can be said to resemble a Tula -“Scales” since the day

and night are equal then throughout the globe! The month of Sahas of

Hemant Ritu has nothing to do with “Vrishchika” – “A Scorpion” unless it

is to get a sting in our hands by trying to erect a Rashichakra! The

month of Sahasya is supposed to have been named Dhanu – a bow or an

Archer! The most ironic part of it is that the months of Tapa and Tapasya

– the latter also being the Winter Solstice – are supposed to resemble “Makar”

and Kumbha” “a goat”– when actually Makar means a Crocodile and Kumbha a

Pitcher! Unfortunately for these “Vedic astronomers” our Vedic Rishis did

not invent any such Racshichakra with such fantastic names, and that is what is

bothering them and that is why they are hell-bent to “prove” that they did do

so -- which actually proves the ignorance of these “Vedic astronomers”

and of course, Kaliyugi Jyotishis” who call themselves Vedic Jyotishis.

We have thus proved conclusively that the Vedic Rishis did not either

“invent” or “discover” a Rashichakra named Mesha etc. Rashis because they were

not that “illiterate” to have done so and make a fool of themselves. It

is only our “modern Vedic astronomers” besides “Vedic astrologers” who

are ascribing a Rashichakra to our Vedic Rishis! It eludes

one’s imagination as to why they are hell-bent to make a laughing stock of our

“Vedic Rishis” by way of ascribing to the Rishis an invention” which they never

did just to belittle the claim that the Rashichakra with the nomenclature of

Mesha (Ram) etc. rashis was invented by Babylonians! If we are the

real followers of our Vedic Rishis, even if they had “invented” such a

Rashichakra, we should have tried to undermine that “invention” since it brings

hardly any credit to anyone to ascribe a discovery to our exalted Rishis which

would have made a mess of everything!

[Response to Francesco's post (26 June

2009) at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5224]

 

Abhinavagupta , Shivraj Khokra wrote:

 

Re: References of Rashis in the Vedaas and the Vedanga Jyotisha.

 

Francesco

and Ramveer,

>>> Shivraj wrote:

>>> If we read RgVedic Hymn: 1.164.11, it mentions " sun having

twelve

>>> spokes in his wheel "

 

> Francesco Brighenti wrote:

> Even your sarcastic rhetoric question, which from your perspective

> should " strengthen " the case you want to prove, cannot suppress

the

> plain fact that Sayana's interpretation of this r.ca as one

> referring to the twelve signs of the Zodiac is followed by almost no

> modern Vedic scholar.

>

 

> Ramveer Singh wrote:

>

> <message snipped>

> Now you have to answer:-

 

 

Rules of the debate require that I see some evidence from the opposite side

before I give further evidence. These are the questions that I need answers to:

 

a) Did Greeks, Irano-Chaldeans, etc., know about twelve fold division of the

ecliptic before the Vedic Hindus?

 

b) Did Greeks etc. use cosmos for predicting events prior to

Vedic times?

 

Evidence of proven provenance is required for both of the

above points.

 

-Shivraj

 

[Response to Francesco's post (26 June 2009) at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5215]

 

[Response to Ramvir's post (26 June 2009) at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5216]

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

jyotirved

[jyotirved]

Saturday, July 04, 2009 10:14 PM

'abhinavagupta '

Proofs that Mesha etc. rashis were imported into India!

 

 

 

Shri Sunthar Vishuvalingam ji,

Namaskar!

I am really glad that you have

raised certain points in your prolix. Whenever I am asked to clear

my stand, without any personal rancor, the way you have done, it gives me a

chance to clear the air a lot.

As I cannot compile all the

information in a day or two, pl. bear with me for sometime.

Shri Shivraj also has asked

certain pertinent questions which need a detailed answer. His points also

will be replied one-on-one as soon as I arrange the relevant records/details.

With regards,

Avtar

 

PS That reminds me that there is

already one post pending with me for giving proofs of the dates of VJ as 1400

BCE etc. That post also will be replied in detail in due course.

AKK

[Response to Shri Sunthar’s prolix and Shri Shivraj’s

post of Jul 3 2009 at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5247]

 

#5247 july 3, 09

Re: Proofs that Mesha etc. rashis

were imported into India!

 

Avtarji,

 

Before posting further to this forum on (the Rashi controversy and) Hindu

astrology, I request you to clarify , without ambiguity, your position on the

following questions?

 

* Do you accept that the Purânas and MBh contain unambiguous references to and

even description of planetary and zodiacal configurations (as cited by Sarvesh,

Sunil, Shivraj, etc.? If so what is the status of such passages: evidence of

zodiacal knowledge at the times of their composition or (illegitimate)

'interpolations'? If the latter, why have these texts been accepted and handed

down uncritically by traditional scholars (instead of being rejected)?

 

* Do you believe that the constellations (nakSatras) and planets were never

used

in Hindu society for predicting the future before the introduction of the

Greco-Chaldean zodiac? If they were not, were there no other forms of

fortune-telling in pre-zodiacal India?

 

* Do you accept that the zodiacal signs have been used not just for

(predictive)

astrology but also to fix the timing of important public festivals like the

Kumbha Mela, death rituals, etc.? If so, has this been done arbitrarily or by

resorting certain meaningful principles, and do the latter show any continuity

with pre-zodiacal practices?

 

I'm well aware, even from personal experience, of the abuses of 'Vedic'

astrology and the bane it has become to Hindu society (the best 'solution'

proposed might be the one threatened in Lage Raho Munnabhai by the latter's

sidekick 'Circuit'...). So I'm not against the lines of public inquiry you are

pursuing, but there is the danger of throwing the baby out with the

bath-water,,,

 

 

Sunthar

 

[Rest of this thread at Sunthar's comments (03 July) on Sunil's post (01 July

2009) at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5246]

 

-------------

 

Avtarji,

Pranaam!

Abhinavagupta ,

Avtar Krishen Kaul wrote:

>

> Shri Shivraj Khokraji,

>

> Namaskar!

>

> You have said, in #5224,

>

> a) Did Greeks, Irano-Chaldeans, etc., know about twelve fold division of

> the ecliptic before the Vedic Hindus?

> b) Did Greeks etc. use cosmos for predicting events prior to Vedic times?

>

>

>

> I am giving an excerpt from my paper Rashi5.pdf which is in the files

> section of most of the forums.

>

> This will clarify, beyond all the doubts, that the zodiac was actually

> imported into India, as proved by Dr. Meghnad Saha, the eminent scientist,

> who headed the 1954 (Saha) Calendar Reform Committee

>

 

Here are few verses from Mahabharata:

[Reference: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs05141.htm]

[Please turn on UTF-8 encoding in your browser to see the

brahmi fonts render correctly]

 

Udyog Parva 5.141

पराजापतà¥Âयं हि नकà¥Âषतà¥Âरं गरहस

तीकà¥Âषà¥Âणॊ महाथà¥Âयà¥Âतिः

शनैशà¥Âचरः पीडयति पीडयन

पराणिनॊ ऽधिकम [7]

 

That active planet of great effulgence Shanaishchara (Saturn)

troubles the star Prajaptaya indicating greater troubles to

living beings. [7]

 

 

कृतà¥Âवा चाङà¥Âगारकॊ वकà¥Âरं

जयेषà¥Âठायां मधà¥Âसूथन

अनà¥Âराधां परारà¥Âदयते मैतà¥Âरं

संशमयनà¥Âन इव [8]

 

The planet Angaraka (Mars or Mangal in Hindi) travels obliquely

to the constellation Jyestha, O slayer of Madhu, and goes towards

Anuradha as if seeking its friendship. [8]

 

 

 

सॊमसà¥Âय लकà¥Âषà¥Âम वयावृतà¥Âतं

राहà¥Âर अरà¥Âकम उपेषà¥Âयति

थिवश चॊलà¥Âकाः पतनà¥Âतà¥Âय à¤Âताः

सनिरà¥Âघाताः सकमà¥Âपनाः [10]

 

Rahu comes to the Sun which has covered the path of the moon and

from the heavens fall down meteors with loud noise and making the

earth shake. [10]

 

 

पराथà¥Âरà¥Âभूतेषॠचैतेषॠभयम

आहà¥Âर उपसà¥Âदितम

निमितà¥Âतेषॠमहाबाहॊ थारà¥Âणं

पराणिनाशनम [12]

 

When such omens prevail it is said that a great calamity is at

hand causing, O you of long arms, a very great massacre of living

beings.[12]

 

 

[Reference http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs05047.htm]

Udyog Parva 5.47

 

उचà¥Âचावचं थैवयà¥Âकà¥Âतं रहसà¥Âयं;

थिवà¥Âयाः परशà¥Âना मृगचकà¥Âरा

मà¥Âहूरà¥Âताः

कषयं महानà¥Âतं कà¥Âरà¥Âसृञà¥Âजयानां;

निवेथयनà¥Âते पाणà¥Âडवानां जयं च

[93]

 

Capable of explaining the mysteries of the Gods and of answering

questions regarding coming events, understanding the signs of

the zodiac, prophesying the great overthrow of the Kurus and the

Srinjayas and the triumph of the Pandavas.

 

 

Based on above data we can safely conclude Astrological predictions

were common occurrence and we know the

date of Mahabharata so we can conclude at what epoch these

events took place.

 

In the paper you have uploaded I could not find any reference

as to when in time it can be proved that Babylonians/Chaldeans etc.

knew zodiac and if they used predictive astrology as was

being practiced in India? Please provide some datable evidence.

 

You gave a date of 532 B.C. for Greeks knowing the zodiac. Please

point out a primary source that I can check which mentions that

Greeks were using astrology in 532 B.C.

 

Mahabharata precedes 532 B.C. by many centuries if not millennia.

 

Regarding Dr. Saha can you please provide an exact quote where

he says what you mention in the article?

 

[Response to Avtarji's post of Jul 1 2009 at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5240

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

jyotirved

[jyotirved]

Monday, July 06, 2009 2:14 PM

'abhinavagupta '

RE: Proofs that Mesha etc. rashis were imported into India!

 

 

 

Shri Shivraj Khokraji,

Namaskar!

You have asked information about

some points, one being, “You

gave a date of 532 B.C. for Greeks knowing the zodiac. Please point out a

primary source that I can check which mentions that Greeks were using astrology

in 532 B.C.â€

This date of astrology

in 532 BC has been given by Dr. Meghnad Saha (and not by me!) in the Report of

the Calendar Reform Committee. I quote the relevant passage once again, “These signs were taken up by almost all nations in the centuries

before the Christian era on account of the significance attached to them by

astrologers. In Greece, they were first supposed to have been introduced

by the early Greek astronomer Cleostratos, an astronomer who observed about 532

BC in the island of Tenedos off the Hellespont who introduced the designation

‘Zodiac’ to describe the belt of stars about the ecliptic. The twelve

‘Zodiacal Signs’ are not known in older ritualistic Indian literature like the

Brahmanas. They appear to have come to India in the wake of the

Macedonian Greeks or of nations like the Sakas who were intermediaries for

transmission of Greek culture to India…..â€. Dr. Saha was a

scientist of repute, whose integrity cannot be questioned by

anybody.

Another point is,

“Regarding Dr. Saha can you please provide an exact quote where he says what

you mention in the article?â€

This “exact quoteâ€

has been quoted from pages 192 to 194 of the “Report of the (Saha) Calendar

Reform Committeeâ€.

In your summary about the references of astrological

predictions in the Mahabharata, you have said, “Mahabharata precedes 532 B.C. by many

centuries if not millenniaâ€.

There has already been a lot of discussion about the

date of Mahabharata in Abhinavagupta forum and other forums and papers.

There is no consensus about either the “starting date†or the “concluding dateâ€

of the composition/revelation/compilation of the Mahabharata epic. Would

you kindly give me your opinion, with evidence, about both these dates of the

epic as that would make things easier for me to answer your questions as to how

and when the predictive part of jyotisha crept into that work. May be,

while trying to arrive at those dates, you will find an answer yourself, to

your own question.

Pl. rest assured that these are no delaying tactics, but an honest

effort to arrive at Truth and nothing but Truth.

In the end of your post, you have said, “So I'm not against

the lines of public inquiry you are pursuing, but there is the danger of

throwing the baby out with the bath-water,,,†Yes, you are absolutely

right that we should not throw the “baby out with the bath-waterâ€, but we must

at the same time let not the “baby wallow in the muddy water†either since in

the former case, at least there are chances of her survival, whereas in the latter

case, the baby ill suffocate to death.

And that is exactly

the “Vedic Hindus†have been doing over the last couple of millennia: wallowing

in the mud of predictive gimmicks, which they call these days “Vedic astrologyâ€

and continue to celebrate all the festivals and muhurtas on wrong days at least

over the last several centuries, ever since Grahalaghava!

We must put a full

stop to it.

With regards,

A. K. Kaul

 

 

 

[Response to Shri Shivraj’s post of Jul

3 2009 at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5247]

 

#5247 july 3, 09

Re: Proofs that Mesha etc. rashis

were imported into India!

 

Avtarji,

Pranaam!

Abhinavagupta ,

Avtar Krishen Kaul wrote:

>

> Shri Shivraj Khokraji,

>

> Namaskar!

>

> You have said, in #5224,

>

> a) Did Greeks, Irano-Chaldeans, etc., know about twelve fold division of

> the ecliptic before the Vedic Hindus?

> b) Did Greeks etc. use cosmos for predicting events prior to Vedic times?

>

>

>

> I am giving an excerpt from my paper Rashi5.pdf which is in the files

> section of most of the forums.

>

> This will clarify, beyond all the doubts, that the zodiac was actually

> imported into India, as proved by Dr. Meghnad Saha, the eminent scientist,

> who headed the 1954 (Saha) Calendar Reform Committee

>

 

Here are few verses from Mahabharata:

[Reference: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs05141.htm]

[Please turn on UTF-8 encoding in your browser to see the

brahmi fonts render correctly]

 

Udyog Parva 5.141

पराजापतà¥Âयं हि नकà¥Âषतà¥Âरं गरहस

तीकà¥Âषà¥Âणॊ महाथà¥Âयà¥Âतिः

शनैशà¥Âचरः पीडयति पीडयन

पराणिनॊ ऽधिकम [7]

 

That active planet of great effulgence Shanaishchara (Saturn)

troubles the star Prajaptaya indicating greater troubles to

living beings. [7]

 

 

कृतà¥Âवा चाङà¥Âगारकॊ वकà¥Âरं

जयेषà¥Âठायां मधà¥Âसूथन

अनà¥Âराधां परारà¥Âदयते मैतà¥Âरं

संशमयनà¥Âन इव [8]

 

The planet Angaraka (Mars or Mangal in Hindi) travels obliquely

to the constellation Jyestha, O slayer of Madhu, and goes towards

Anuradha as if seeking its friendship. [8]

 

 

 

सॊमसà¥Âय लकà¥Âषà¥Âम वयावृतà¥Âतं

राहà¥Âर अरà¥Âकम उपेषà¥Âयति

थिवश चॊलà¥Âकाः पतनà¥Âतà¥Âय à¤Âताः

सनिरà¥Âघाताः सकमà¥Âपनाः [10]

 

Rahu comes to the Sun which has covered the path of the moon and

from the heavens fall down meteors with loud noise and making the

earth shake. [10]

 

 

पराथà¥Âरà¥Âभूतेषॠचैतेषॠभयम

आहà¥Âर उपसà¥Âदितम

निमितà¥Âतेषॠमहाबाहॊ थारà¥Âणं

पराणिनाशनम [12]

 

When such omens prevail it is said that a great calamity is at

hand causing, O you of long arms, a very great massacre of living

beings.[12]

 

 

[Reference http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/mbs/mbs05047.htm]

Udyog Parva 5.47

 

उचà¥Âचावचं थैवयà¥Âकà¥Âतं रहसà¥Âयं;

थिवà¥Âयाः परशà¥Âना मृगचकà¥Âरा

मà¥Âहूरà¥Âताः

कषयं महानà¥Âतं कà¥Âरà¥Âसृञà¥Âजयानां;

निवेथयनà¥Âते पाणà¥Âडवानां जयं च

[93]

 

Capable of explaining the mysteries of the Gods and of answering

questions regarding coming events, understanding the signs of

the zodiac, prophesying the great overthrow of the Kurus and the

Srinjayas and the triumph of the Pandavas.

 

 

Based on above data we can safely conclude Astrological predictions

were common occurrence and we know the

date of Mahabharata so we can conclude at what epoch these

events took place.

 

In the paper you have uploaded I could not find any reference

as to when in time it can be proved that Babylonians/Chaldeans etc.

knew zodiac and if they used predictive astrology as was

being practiced in India? Please provide some datable evidence.

 

You gave a date of 532 B.C. for Greeks knowing the zodiac. Please

point out a primary source that I can check which mentions that

Greeks were using astrology in 532 B.C.

 

Mahabharata precedes 532 B.C. by many centuries if not millennia.

 

Regarding Dr. Saha can you please provide an exact quote where

he says what you mention in the article?

 

[Response to Avtarji's post of Jul 1 2009 at

 

Abhinavagupta/message/5240