Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Dear Subashji, Thanks for forwarding me the full text of Shri Purshkar Bhatnagar's views about his own publication. A similar post/mail has appeared on several forums! " Vedic astronomers " have a symbiotic relation with " Vedic astrologers " and, as such, are hardly any better than them in exhibiting their ignorance of astronomy! And they are flaunting, like a talisman, software like Planetarium etc. to show to the whole world as to how ignorant they actually are about their own cultural matters, whether about the Ramayana or the Mahabharata. Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar has said in his book, as quoted by him " Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon). This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114 BC. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7123 years back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India " . In several of his earlier posts, Shri Bhatnagar had talked of using " Planetarium " software. Let us analyze the actual facts. There is a program by P. V. R. Narasimha Rao, (owner, vedic astrology ) named JHora. Its latest version, 7.33 calculates planetary longitudes, lagna, nakshatra etc. from about 5500 BCE to about 5500 AD rather quite accurately. It can be downloaded for free from the internet. Anybody can use in it any Ayanamsha including the " almighty " Lahiri or Ramana or even zero, which is euphemistically known as Sayana! Swiss Ephemeris, that is based on VSOP 87 and also DE/LE data, is as well quite accurate and calculates planetary longitudes, both sayana or nirayana, etc. for a similar period. That also can be downloaded free from the web or purchased for a nominal price for commercial purposes. Both these software tally almost exactly with the Vishnu program in HinduCalendar forum for tithi, nakshatra etc. from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD! Following are the " almighty " Lahiri details copied from the JHora 7.33 software for January 10, 5114 BCE (-5113 AD) for Ayodhya at Noon, LMT: 1. Natal Chart Shri Ram January 10, -5113 Time: 12:00:00 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 82 E 12' 00 " , 26 N 48' 00 " Ayodhya, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Parabhava - Phalguna Tithi: Sukla Sapthami (Sa) (48.25% left) Vedic Weekday: Thursday (Ju) Nakshatra: Rohini (Mo) (62.35% left) Yoga: Vishkambha (Sa) (11.29% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (96.49% left) Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Moon (5 min sign: Cn) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Moon) Sunrise: 6:58:32 Sunset: 17:19:31 Janma Ghatis: 12.5612 Ayanamsa: 285-52-47.49 Sidereal Time: 16:35:26 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 14 Ta 52' 07.38 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Sun - BK 26 Aq 48' 32.38 " PBha 3 Aq Ge Moon - PiK 15 Ta 01' 10.38 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Mars - AmK 28 Ar 17' 42.38 " Krit 1 Ar Sg Mercury - AK 29 Cp 18' 42.32 " Dhan 2 Cp Vi Jupiter ® - MK 18 Le 51' 39.03 " PPha 2 Le Vi Venus ® - DK 1 Pi 59' 24.70 " PBha 4 Pi Cn Saturn - PK 13 Sc 47' 26.51 " Anu 4 Sc Sc Rahu - GK 22 Sg 16' 56.06 " PSha 3 Sg Li Ketu 22 Ge 16' 56.06 " Puna 1 Ge Ar **** **** ***** ***** ***** ***** Following are the so called Sayana details as per the same J Hora 7.33 software 2. Natal Chart Shri Ram January 10, -5113 Time: 12:00:00 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 82 E 12' 00 " , 26 N 48' 00 " Ayodhya, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Parabhava - Pushya Tithi: Sukla Sapthami (Sa) (48.25% left) Vedic Weekday: Thursday (Ju) Nakshatra: Poorvabhadra (Ju) (18.25% left) Yoga: Vyatipata (Ra) (23.08% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (96.49% left) Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Le) Mahakala Hora: Moon (5 min sign: Cn) Kaala Lord: Saturn (Mahakala: Moon) Sunrise: 6:58:32 Sunset: 17:19:31 Janma Ghatis: 12.5612 Ayanamsa: 0-00-00.00 Sidereal Time: 16:35:26 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 0 Pi 44' 54.87 " PBha 4 Pi Cn Sun - PK 12 Sg 41' 21.93 " Mool 4 Sg Cn Moon - DK 0 Pi 53' 59.93 " PBha 4 Pi Cn Mars - PiK 14 Aq 10' 31.93 " Sata 3 Aq Aq Mercury - MK 15 Sc 11' 31.87 " Anu 4 Sc Sc Jupiter ® - GK 4 Ge 44' 28.58 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc Venus ® - BK 17 Sg 52' 14.25 " PSha 2 Sg Vi Saturn - AK 29 Le 40' 16.06 " UPha 1 Le Sg Rahu - AmK 8 Li 09' 45.60 " Swat 1 Li Sg Ketu 8 Ar 09' 45.60 " Aswi 3 Ar Ge ***** ***** **** ****** **** The (Sayana) planetary details as per the Swiss Ephemeris are: *** CHART ANALYSIS REPORT *** 3. Shri Ram - Male Chart DeltaT = +162894s; ET = 3:46:06 am Jan 12 5114 BC; JDE = -146454.342978 ST(0°) = 11:08:42; LST = 16:37:30; Ob = 24°10'19''; Eq.Time = -2m33s ACD(0h) = Oct 4 5114 BC; ACD(12h) = Apr 5 5114 BC CHART ANGLES Ascendant 01°Pi26'08'' Midheaven 11°Sg02'58'' CHART POINTS Mon 02°Pi29'03'' Sun 12°Sg48'44'' Mer 15°Sc19'34'' Ven 17°Sg48'30'' R Mar 14°Aq15'05'' Jup 04°Ge44'21'' R Sat 29°Le40'55'' Nod 09°Li03'37'' R SNo 09°Ar03'37'' R *** END REPORT *** You can see it for your self that there is not much difference between the Swiss Ephemeris data and that of the latest J.Hora. As claimed by Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar, The Valmiki Ramayana, Balakanda 18/8-9 actually says, " In the meantime six seasons (from the last Vasanta) rolled away after the sacrifice was over. Then on the ninth lunar day of the bright fortnight of Chaitra, the twelfth month after the conclusion of the sacrifices, when the asterism Punarvasu, presided over by Aditi, was in the ascendant and as many as five planets viz. the Sun, Mars, Saturn and Venus happened to be exalted (appeared in zodiacal signs of Mesha or Aries, Makara or Capricornus, Tula or Libra, Karka or Cancer and Mina or Pisces respectively), and Jupiter in conjunction with the moon appeared in the zodiacal sign of Karka, mother Kaushalya, the eldest wife of Dhasharatha, gave birth to a highly blessed son named Shri Ram, who was no other than the Lord of the universe.. " (Gita Press translation) The salient features of this " Divine " chart by Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar, however, are: 1. Janma month is neither Madhu nor Chaitra but the month of Sahasya and Margashirsha/Pausha! 2. Janma ritu is not Vasanta but Hemanta Ritu! 3. Janma tithi is Shukla Saptami instead of Shukla Navmi! 4. Janma Nakshatra is either Purvabhadra (Sayana) or Rohini (Lahiri) instead of Punarvasu! 5. Moon is neither in sayana nor in nirayana Karkata but in either Mina or Vrisha! 6. Sun is neither in nirayana nor in sayana Mesha but either in Dhanush or in Kumbha! 7. Lagna is neither sayana nor nirayana Karkata but either Mina or Vrisha! 8. Brihaspati is neither in Sayana nor in nirayana Karkata but in Mithuna or Simha! 9. Mangal is neither in Sayana nor in nirayana Makara but in Kumbha or Mesha 10. Shani is neither in Sayana nor in nirayana Tula but in Simha or Vrischika 11. Shukra is the only planet that can be said to be in Mina, that also provided that we presuppose that " almighty " Lahiri had incarnated even prior to " Bhatnagar Ram " since it is only as per Lahiri Ayanamsha that Shukra is in Mina! 12 Thus leave alone five planets being either exalted or in their own signs, not even a single planet is exalted or in its own sign! And the rest is history, as the saying goes, since if the birth particulars themselves are inaccurate to such an extent, it is futile to go into other details! So long live " Bhatnagar Ram " ! And I am sure " Vedic astrologers " will continue to delineate the chart of " Bhatnagar Ram " for ages together with correct predictions, since they can make correct predictions only from incorrect data! And the billion dollar question that no " Vedic astronomer " or " Vedic astrologer " can answer is as to how could Mesha etc. Rashis be included in the Valmiki Ramayana if they sre conspicuous by their absence in a much later work viz. the Mahabharata, ( " Paroskhya Professor's " Brahma Rashi notwithstanding!) as there were no rashis till the advent of Maya the mlechha, again, " parokshya professor's " visualization of spurious mantra as original in the Vedanga Jyotisha notwithstanding! But then people like you and me are helpless in the face of an avalanche of " proofs " by " prominent scholars " , thanks to their " philosophers' stones " like " Planetarium " software etc.! It also appears that these scholars like Dr. Vartak or " Parokshya Professor " or Pushkar Bhatnagar or Prafulla Vamana Mendaki etc. etc., have not read the original Valmiki Ramayana at all, since they would have at least given some explanation as to how Shri Ram could have Incarnated in fifth or even seventh millennium BCE, if He is supposed to have ruled for eleven thousand years for this is what the Valmiki Ramayana says, " Having served His kingdom for eleven thousand years, Shri Ram will ascend to Brahmaloka " (Balakanda 1/97--Gita Press translation) and " (Now that You have ruled for eleven thousand years, as desired by You Yourself, You will have now to ascend to Brahmaloka " (Uttarakanda 104/12--Gita Press translation). What is most pathetic is the statement by Shri Pushkar Bhatnagar " The following document is the 'MOST' authentic scientific work that does not need further scientific verification. " Obviously, some of the scholars consider themselves more exalted than the Vedic Seers or even Maharshi Valmiki and would not like their findings to be subjected to any peer review! The fact of the matter is that these astrological combinations in the Varlmiki Ramayana and Adhyatma Ramayana etc. are astronomically impossible and are interpolations of a much later date by some good for nothing jyotishi! This will be clear from: 1. It is practically impossible for anybody to have been or be born in Punarvasu nakshatra with the Moon in Karkata and Navmi tithi, with the sun in Mesha! 2. Similarly, as per the Valmiki Ramayana Balakanda 18/15-16, " Bharata of cheerful mind was born when the constellation Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun had entered the zodiacal sign of Pisces, while the twin sons of Sumitra were born when the constellation Ashlesha was in the Ascendant and the sun had reached the meredian, touching the zodiacal sign of Karkata, i.e. Cancer " . (Gita Press translation) Anybody knowing even a bit of astronomy, can immediately see through the blunders committed by those good for nothing jyotishis who made such interpolations to prove their jyotisha prowess, that if the sun is in Mesha as in the case of Bhagwan Rama and in Mina in the case of Bharata, the latter is either younger by eleven months or elder by one month to the former, since Mesha follows Mina and not the other way round! 3. Similarly, if Bharata's sun is in Mina, and that of Lakshmana and Shatrugna in Karkata, they are either younger than Bharata by four months or elder to him by eight months! However, as per the same Valmiki Ramayana, all the four brothers are supposed to have been born within a gap of a day or two and not several months. 4. Last but not the least, almost all the “Vedic astronomers†and “Vedic astrologers†are of the view that Rama-Setu is hundreds of thousands years old as it was built by the Vanara-Sena of Bhagwan Ram! They are claiming the support of NASA also in such matters! Now if as per these very  “Vedic astronomers†and “Vedic astrologersâ€, He Incarnated just about seven or nine thousand years back, what can be the fate of the plea pending in the Supreme Court of India can well be imagined! No " Vedic astrologer " has commented on such anachronisms in the Ramayana, simply because they would not then be able to make a fool of a common man with such words as, " Rama was exiled when He had Sade-Sati " or " even Bhagwan Ram was separated from His wife since He was a Mangalik as He had Mars in the seventh " and so on! But then this is Kaliyuga and that is why Goswami Tulsidas had said, in the Ramacharitamanasa, in Balakanda, 14th Doha: " Banchak Bhagat Kahai Ram ke, kinkar kanchan koh kama ke " . Aakhir paapi pet ka saval jo hai! With regards, Avtar ----- Original Message ----- subash razdan World Association ; Avtar K. Kaul ; namaste bombay ; nfia ; senior citizens program Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:47 AM Fw: Dating of the Ramayana Period ----- Forwarded Message ---- Krishan Bhatnagar <krishan.kb Undisclosed-Recipient Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:55:09 AM Dating of the Ramayana Period Dating the Era of Lord Ram : Discover the Actual Dates of the Lifetime of Lord Ram Pushkar Bhatnagar Rupa and Co, 2004, pbk, x, 161 p, 59 Slides, ISBN : 81-291-0498-9, $22.00 Excerpts…(The following document is the 'MOST' authentic scientific work that does not need further scientific verification.) The story of Shri Ram's life was first narrated by Maharishi Valmiki in the Ramayana, which was written after Shri Ram was crowned as the king of Ayodhya. Maharishi Valmiki was a great astronomer as he has made sequential astronomical references on important dates related to the life of Shri Ram indicating the location of planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and the other stars (nakshatras) . Needless to add that similar position of planets and nakshatras is not repeated in thousands of years. By entering the precise details of the planetary configuration of the important events in the life of Shri Ram as given in the Valmiki Ramayan in the software named " Planetarium " corresponding exact dates of these events according to the English calendar can be known. Mr Pushkar Bhatnagar of the Indian Revenue Service had acquired this software from the US.. It is used to predict the solar/lunar eclipses and distance and location of other planets from earth. He entered the relevant details about the planetary positions narrated by Maharishi Valmiki and obtained very interesting and convincing results, which almost determine the important dates starting from the birth of Shri Ram to the date of his coming back to Ayodhya after 14 years of exile. Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine (1/18/8,9) that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra; iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi) Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu (Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon). This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114 BC. Thus Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7123 years back). As per the Indian calendar it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India. Shri Ram was born in Ayodhya. This fact can be ascertained from several books written by Indian and foreign authors before and after the birth of Christ - Valmiki Ramayan, Tulsi Ramayan, Kalidasa's Raghuvansam, Baudh and Jain literature, etc. These books have narrated in great detail the location, rich architecture and beauty of Ayodhya which had many palaces and temples built all over the kingdom. Ayodhya was located on the banks of the Saryu river with Ganga and Panchal Pradesh on one side and Mithila on the other side. Normally 7,000 years is a very long period during which earthquakes, storms, floods and foreign invasions change the course of rivers, destroy the towns/buildings and alter the territories. Therefore, the task of unearthing the facts is monumental. The present Ayodhya has shrunk in size and the rivers have changed their course about 40 km north/south. Shri Ram went out of Ayodhya in his childhood (13th year as per Valmiki Ramayan) with Rishi Vishwamitra who lived in Tapovan (Sidhhashram) . From there he went to Mithila, King Janaka's kingdom. Here he married Sita after breaking Shiv Dhanusha. Researchers have gone along the route adopted by Shri Ram as narrated in the Valmiki Ramayan and found 23 places which have memorials that commemorate the events related to the life of Shri Ram. These include Shringi Ashram, Ramghat, Tadka Van, Sidhhashram, Gautamashram, Janakpur (now in Nepal), Sita Kund, etc. Memorials are built for great men and not for fictitious characters. Date of exile of Shri Ram: It is mentioned in Valmiki Ramayan's Ayodhya Kand (2/4/18) that Dashratha wanted to make Shri Ram the king because Sun, Mars and Rahu had surrounded his nakshatra and normally under such planetary configuration the king dies or becomes a victim of conspiracies. Dashratha's zodiac sign was Pisces and his nakshatra was Rewati. This planetary configuration was prevailing on the January 5, 5089 BC, and it was on this day that Shri Ram left Ayodhya for 14 years of exile. Thus, he was 25 years old at that time (5114-5089). There are several shlokas in Valmiki Ramayan which indicate that Shri Ram was 25-years-old when he left Ayodhya for exile. Valmiki Ramayan refers to the solar eclipse at the time of war with Khardushan in later half of 13th year of Shri Ram's exile. It is also mentioned it was amavasya day and Mars was in the middle ... When this data was entered, the software indicated that there was a solar eclipse on October 7, 5077 BC, (amavasya day) which could be seen from Panchvati. The planetary configuration was also the same - Mars was in the middle, on one side were Venus and Mercury and on the other side were Sun and Saturn. On the basis of planetary configurations described in various other chapters, the date on which Ravana was killed works out to be December 4, 5076 BC, and Shri Ram completed 14 years of exile on January 2, 5075 BC, and that day was also Navami of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month. Thus Shri Ram had come back to Ayodhya at the age of 39 (5114-5075). A colleague, Dr Ram Avtar, researched on places visited by Shri Ram during his exile, and sequentially moved to the places stated as visited by Shri Ram in the Valmiki Ramayan, starting from Ayodhya he went right upto Rameshwaram. He found 195 places which still have the memorials connected to the events narrated in the Ramayana relating to the life of Shri Ram and Sita. These include Tamsa Tal (Mandah), Shringverpur (Singraur), Bhardwaj Ashram (situated near Allahabad), Atri Ashram, Markandaya Ashram (Markundi), Chitrakoot, Pamakuti (on banks of Godavari), Panchvati, Sita Sarovar, Ram Kund in Triambakeshwar near Nasik, Shabari Ashram, Kishkindha (village Annagorai), Dhanushkoti and Rameshwar temple. In Valmiki Ramayan it is mentioned that Shri Ram's army constructed a bridge over the sea between Rameshwaram and Lanka. After crossing this bridge, Shri Ram's army had defeated Ravana. Recently, NASA put pictures on the Internet of a man-made bridge, the ruins of which are lying submerged in Palk Strait between Rameshwaram and Sri Lanka. Recently the Sri Lankan Government had expressed the desire to develop Sita Vatika as a tourist spot. Sri Lankans believe this was Ashok Vatika where Ravana had kept Sita as a prisoner (in 5076 BC). Indian history has recorded that Shri Ram belonged to the Suryavansh and he was the 64th ruler of this dynasty. The names and other relevant particulars of previous 63 kings are listed in Ayodhya Ka Itihas written about 80 years ago by Rai Bahadur Sita Ram. Professor Subhash Kak of Lousiana University, in his book, The Astronomical Code of the Rig Veda, has also listed 63 ancestors of Shri Ram who ruled over Ayodhya. Sri Ram's ancestors have been traced out as: Shri Ram, King Dashratha, King Aja, King Raghu, King Dilip and so on.. From Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Bengal to Gujarat, everywhere people believe in the reality of Shri Ram's existence, particularly in the tribal areas of Himachal, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and the North-East. Most of the festivals celebrated in these areas revolve around the events in the life of Shri Ram and Shri Krishna. The events and places related to the life of Shri Ram and Sita are true cultural and social heritage of every Indian irrespective of caste and creed. Therefore, it is common heritage. After all, Shri Ram belonged to the period when Prophet Mohammed or Jesus Christ were not born and Muslim or Christian faiths were unknown to the world. The words Hindu (resident of Hindustan) and Indian (resident of India) were synonymous.. India was also known as Bharat (land of knowledge) and Aryavarta (where Aryans live) and Hindustan (land of " Hindus " - derived from word Indus). During Ram Rajya, the evils of caste system based on birth were non-existent. In fact, Maharishi Valmiki is stated to be of shudra class (scheduled caste), still Sita lived with him as his adopted daughter after she was banished from Ayodhya. Luv and Kush grew in his ashram as his disciples. We need to be proud of the fact that Valmiki was perhaps the first great astronomer and that his study of planetary configurations has stood the test of times. Even the latest computer softwares have corroborated his astronomical calculations, which proves that he did not commit any error. Shabari is stated to be belonging to the Bheel tribe. Shri Ram's army, which succeeded in defeating Ravana, was formed by various tribals from Central and South India.... The facts, events and all other details relating to the life of Shri Ram are the common heritage of all the Indians including scheduled castes, scheduled tribes, Muslims, Christians, etc. Prophet Mohammad was born 1,400 years ago. Jesus Christ was born 2,000 years back. Gautam Buddha was born 2,600 years back, whereas Ram was born 7,000 years back. Hence, discovering the details relating to Shri Ram's life would be lot more difficult as destruction caused by floods, earthquakes and invasions etc., would be far greater. But, should that stop our quest for learning more about our cultural heritage? As people of Indian origin, let us all take pride in the fact that the Indian civilization is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the story of Aryan invasion in India in 1,500 BC as motivated implantation. In fact Max Mueller, who was the creator of this theory had himself rejected it. Let us admit that during the British Rule, we were educated in the schools based on Macaulay school of thinking which believed that everything Indian was inferior and that entire " Indian literature was not worth even one book rack in England " . If there were similarities in certain features of Indian people and people from Central Europe, then automatic inference drawn was that the Aryans coming from Europe invaded India and settled here. No one dared of thinking in any other way. Therefore, there is urgency for the historians and all other intellectuals to stop reducing Indian history to myth. There is need to gather, dig out, search, unearth and analyze all the evidences, which would throw more light on ancient Indian civilization and culture. 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