Guest guest Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 Dear friends, Jai Shri Ram! As usual, Shri Bhatacharjya has deliberately gone off the tanget on every point raised by me! He just beats about the bush every time he is cornered, and that is very frequent indeed! As such, I repeat my questions below once again, and would request Shri Bhattacharjya to answer them one on one. The questions are If the Valmiki Ramayana, Balakanda 18/15-16, itself says, "saarpe jatav tu saumitree kuleere abyudite ravavav" how can anybody interpret it that Bharata and Shatrugana were born the next day after Shri Ram when their sun was in Karkata whereas the sun of Shri Ram was in Mesha? Thus Mr. Bhattacharjya himself is displaying publicly his own ignorance! The planetary data given in the Adyatma Ramayana and Valmiki Ramayana is the same because both are interpolations, either by one and the same good for nothing jyotishi or the Adyatma Ramayana interpolator has copied the jyotisha interpolations of the VR. Such activities are very common with Jyotishis in India---Narada Purana has interpolations of Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas, which in themselves are interpolations of a much later date in the Surya Sidhanta itself! Vishnudharmotara- Purana talks of a Paitamaha Sidhanta that has actually been purloined from Brahma Sphuta Sidhanta of Brahma-gupta and so on. If unequal division of nakshatras was followed in India in the past, that means the system of muhurta, predictions and also festivals being followed these days by these very "Vedic astrologers" including Shri Bhattacharjya, on the basis of equal nakshatra division is wrong! So all the jyotisha shastras, inlcudng Brihat jatakam and Brihat (Varahi) Samhita etc., being followed at present also are wrong! No wonder, "Vedic jyotishis" like Shri Bhattacharjya are making correct predictions from those very works from incorrect division of nakshatras! That vindicates my stand that "Vedic jyotishis" can make correct predictions only from incorrect data! Since Shri Bhattacharjya is a Paroskhya-darshi, he alone can see through his paroskhya knowledge" that by eleven thousand years of Ramarajya the good for nothing interpolator jyotihsi had meant that a so called "divya varsha" of Shri Rama had been taken as 30.5 years of mankind! But then Shri Bhattacharjya must explain as to how could Shri Rama's fourteen years of exile mean only fourteen years or his marriage at the age of about seventeen mean only seventeen years! Why are they not divya-varshas? Shri Bhattacharjya says that Dr. Vartak has calculated the date of Shri Ram as December 4, 7323 on the basis of planetary position of the VR and AR correctly. That means that Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya presume Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets were being calculated in India more than 9000 years back! India, however, does not have any records talking of Mesha etc. Rashis vis-à -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets before the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---a work of about early centuries of Common Era! Mesha etc. Rashis vis-a-vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets were not known anywhere in the world till about five to six thousand years back, earliest! But Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya discovered them even much earlier---9000 years back and that also in the VR and AR! Thus Shri Bhattacharjya is again using his "parkoshya knowledge" of having "seen" Mesha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets before anybody else! He is actually making a fool of a common man! Or is it himself? As per Dr. Vartak's "most accurate calculations" the Mahabharata war started on October 16, 5561 BCE. If Dr. Vartak is a scholar of that high caliber and a mathematical wizard according to Shri Bhattacharjya, why does he not agree with Dr. Vartak on the Mbh date? Why does Shri Bhattacharjya insist that the Mahabharata war took place only after July 19, 3228 BCE, since "Vedic astrologers" like Dr. B. V. Raman have erected "correct birth chart" (sic!) of Bhagwan Krishna for that date in his Notable Holroscopes. Heads I win and tails you lose! Shri Bhattacharya says that the Manu has advised kings to consult jyotishis! He is again taking the general public for a ride, since he has as yet to quote the exact references. There are hundreds of thousands of jyotishis in India, but Shri Bhattacharjya is the only one who is being prompted to counter the shastriac as well as astronomical facts!!! Need I say anything more? A K Kaul vedic_research_institute , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote: Re: [VRI] Dating the Ramayana Period Dear friends, Shri Kaul does not understand Sanskrit at all as seen from the fact that he had given the wrong translation of the Ramayana verse. He also does not understand the Hindu astrology as well as the Hindu Astronomy, as we have seen during these discussions. He could not understnd even that in 24 hours all the 12 Lagnas can occur. He calls me a Paroksha professor. He himself is neither a Paroksha professor nor a Pratyaksha professor. What professor will he like me to call him? He is calling my showing that he has given a wrong translation as one up-manship and it automatically happens when one person points out another person's misinterpretations. I have already sifted the grain from the chaff by showing that Shri Kaul have given the wrong translation of the Sanskrit verse. Lord Rama was born at midday ie. noon. Bharata was born 14 hours after that and everybody will understnd that Bharata was born after 2 pm at night. The day is counted from the Sunrise to the next Sunrise. Shri Kaul should please refer to my mail in which I have given the original Sanskrit verse regarding the birth of Bharata, Lakshman and Shatrughna. Lakshman and Shatrughna were born in the Karkata lagna the next day. No astrologer will have any difficulty in understanding that. as Shri Kaul does not know astrology he should not pose as an expert in the area he is not familiar with. The main issue is that the data given in the Valmiki Ramayana are correct and adequate to find the date of Lord Rama and Dr. P.V.Vartak has already shown from the precessional calculations followed by other astronomical calculations that Lord Rama was born in 7323 BCE. If anybody thinks that he has a more accurate date he may be welcome to present his findings. The discussion on the issue on the data on the birth of Lord Rama is closed from my side. If any other member wants to continue he or she may. Not knowing Sanskrit and not knowing Astrology is not a crime. or a deficiency. My advice to Shri Kaul is not to talk about Astrology, the subject which he does not really know. He should not contest the Hindu Panchaanga also as he wants to leave out the nakshatras. It is known to the scholars that nakshatra is one of the inseparable anga (or limb) among the five angas of the Panchaanga (five-limbed calendar). Without the nakshatras one can make only a Chaturanga (four-limbed calendar) and not the widely accepted Panchaanga. If anybody has any wothwhile suggestion for improvement it has to be comapatible with all the fine angas taken together. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Tue, 9/22/09, jyotirved <jyotirved wrote: jyotirved <jyotirved[VRI] Dating the Ramayana Periodvedic_research_institute Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:18 AM Dear friends, Jai Shri Ram, Shri Bhattacharjya is interested more in one up-manship than sifting grain from the chaff! If the Valmiki Ramayana, Balakanda 18/15-16, itself says, “saarpe jatav tu saumitree kuleere abyudite ravav†how can anybody interpret it that Bharata and Shatrugana were born the next day after Shri Ram when their sun was in Karkata whereas the sun of Shri Ram was in Mesha? Thus Mr. Bhattacharjya himself is displaying publicly his own ignorance! The planetary data given in the Adyatma Ramayana and Valmiki Ramayana is the same because both are interpolations, either by one and the same good for nothing jyotishi or the Adyatma Ramayana interpolator has copied the jyotisha interpolations of the VR. Such activities are very common with Jyotishis in India---Narada Purana has interpolations of Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas, which in themselves are interpolations of a much later date in the Surya Sidhanta itself! Vishnudharmotara- Purana talks of a Paitamaha Sidhanta that has actually been purloined from Brahma Sphuta Sidhanta of Brahma-gupta and so on. If unequal division of nakshatras was followed in India in the past, that means the system of muhurta, predictions and also festivals being followed these days by these very “Vedic astrologersâ€, including Shri Bhattacharjya, on the basis of equal nakshatra division is wrong! So all the jyotisha shastras, inlcudng Brihat jatakam and Brihat (Varahi) Samhita etc., being followed at present also are wrong! No wonder, “Vedic jyotishis†like Shri Bhattacharjya are making correct predictions from those very works from incorrect division of nakshatras! That vindicates my stand that “Vedic jyotishis†can make correct predictions only from incorrect data! Since Shri Bhattacharjya is a Paroskhya-darshi, he alone can see through his “paroskhya knowledge†that by eleven thousand years of Ramarajya the good for nothing interpolator jyotihsi had meant that a so called “divya varsha†of Shri Rama had been taken as 30.5 years of mankind! But then Shri Bhattacharjya must explain as to how could Shri Rama’s fourteen years of exile mean only fourteen years or his marriage at the age of about seventeen mean only seventeen years! Why are they not divya-varshas? Shri Bhattacharjya says that Dr. Vartak has calculated the date of Shri Ram as December 4, 7323 on the basis of planetary position of the VR and AR correctly. That means that Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya presume Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets were being calculated in India more than 9000 years back! India, however, does not have any records talking of Mesha etc. Rashis vis-à -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets before the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---a work of about early centuries of Common Era! Mesha etc. Rashis vis-a-vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets were not known anywhere in the world till about five to six thousand years back, earliest! But Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya discovered them even much earlier---9000 years back and that also in the VR! Thus Shri Bhattacharjya is again using his “parkoshya knowledge†of having “seen†Mesha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets before anybody else! He is actually making a fool of a common man! Or is it himself? As per Dr. Vartak’s “most accurate calculations†the Mahabharata war started on October 16, 5561 BCE. If Dr. Vartak is a scholar of that high caliber and a mathematical wizard according to Shri Bhattacharjya, why does he not agree with Dr. Vartak on the Mbh date? Why does Shri Bhattacharjya insist that the Mahabharata war took place only after July 19, 3228 BCE, since “Vedic astrologers†like Dr. B. V. Raman have erected “correct birth chart†(sic!) of Bhagwan Krishna for that date in his Notable Holroscopes. Heads I win and tails you lose! Shri Bhattacharya says that the Manu has advised kings to consult jyotishis! He is again taking the general public for a ride, since he has as yet to quote the exact references. There are hundreds of thousands of jyotishis in India, but Shri Bhattacharjya is the only one who is being prompted to counter the shastriac as well as astronomical facts!!! Need I say anything more? Jai Shri Ram A K Kaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 http://ramayana.tigercoder.com/index.php Ramayana: Bala-kanda CHAPTER 18 Birth of Rama, Bharata, Lakshmana and Shatrughna When the horse sacrifice and the sacrifice for procuring a son were concluded, the immortal demigods took their share of the offerings and departed as they had come. Having completed the period of consecration, accompanied by his wives, King Dasharatha entered the city with his servants and soldiers. Having been appropriately honored by the king, the monarchs of the world were satisfied and, offering respects to the great sage Rishyashringa, returned to their own lands. Upon leaving the city of Ayodhya to return to their own homes, the soldiers of the glorious kings, being overwhelmed with joy, shone brightly. When the kings had departed, King Dasharatha again entered his capital with the topmost brahmanas walking before him. Being properly honored and followed by the wise king and his entourage, Rishyashringa departed with his wife Shanta. Sending them all away in this manner and completely achieving his desired goal, the king happily resided in Ayodhya while thinking about the birth of his sons. After the sacrifice had been completed, one year elapsed. Then in the twelfth month called Caitra (April), on the ninth day, when the asterism Punarvasu was in the ascendant, the five planets—Sun, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus—were exalted, and Jupiter and the Moon were in the sign of Cancer, the Lord of the universe who is worshiped in all the worlds appeared from the womb of Kausalya as Rama, possessing divine marks. Her son was manifested from the half portion of the rice pudding given by Lord Vishnu. He was the most fortunate son of the Ikshvaku Dynasty. His eyes were reddish, His arms strong, His lips red and His voice like the sound of a drum. Kausalya shone with the immeasurable splendor of her son, like Aditi with her son Indra, the lord of the gods who carries a thunderbolt in his hand. To Kaikeyi was born a son of true prowess named Bharata. Being produced from the quarter portion of the rice pudding, he was endowed with all the transcendental qualities of Lord Vishnu Himself. Then, Sumitra gave birth to two sons—Lakshmana and Shatrughna. They were valorous, expert in all weaponry and endowed with one eighth of the qualities of Lord Vishnu. Bharata was born when the constellation Pushya was in the ascendant and the Sun was in Pisces. The two sons of Sumitra were born when the constellation ashlesha was in the ascendant and the sun was in Cancer. The four great-souled-sons of the king were born separately. They were endowed with all good qualities, and resembled one another. In splendor they were equal to the four stars of the constellation Bhadrapada. , "jyotirved" <jyotirved wrote:>> Dear friends,> Jai Shri Ram!> As usual, Shri Bhatacharjya has deliberately gone off the tanget on every point raised by me! He just beats about the bush every time he is cornered, and that is very frequent indeed!> > As such, I repeat my questions below once again, and would request Shri Bhattacharjya to answer them one on one.> > The questions are> 1.. If the Valmiki Ramayana, Balakanda 18/15-16, itself says, "saarpe jatav tu saumitree kuleere abyudite ravavav" how can anybody interpret it that Bharata and Shatrugana were born the next day after Shri Ram when their sun was in Karkata whereas the sun of Shri Ram was in Mesha? Thus Mr. Bhattacharjya himself is displaying publicly his own ignorance!> 2.. The planetary data given in the Adyatma Ramayana and Valmiki Ramayana is the same because both are interpolations, either by one and the same good for nothing jyotishi or the Adyatma Ramayana interpolator has copied the jyotisha interpolations of the VR. Such activities are very common with Jyotishis in India---Narada Purana has interpolations of Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas, which in themselves are interpolations of a much later date in the Surya Sidhanta itself! Vishnudharmotara- Purana talks of a Paitamaha Sidhanta that has actually been purloined from Brahma Sphuta Sidhanta of Brahma-gupta and so on.> 3.. If unequal division of nakshatras was followed in India in the past, that means the system of muhurta, predictions and also festivals being followed these days by these very "Vedic astrologers" including Shri Bhattacharjya, on the basis of equal nakshatra division is wrong! So all the jyotisha shastras, inlcudng Brihat jatakam and Brihat (Varahi) Samhita etc., being followed at present also are wrong! No wonder, "Vedic jyotishis" like Shri Bhattacharjya are making correct predictions from those very works from incorrect division of nakshatras! That vindicates my stand that "Vedic jyotishis" can make correct predictions only from incorrect data!> 4.. Since Shri Bhattacharjya is a Paroskhya-darshi, he alone can see through his paroskhya knowledge" that by eleven thousand years of Ramarajya the good for nothing interpolator jyotihsi had meant that a so called "divya varsha" of Shri Rama had been taken as 30.5 years of mankind! But then Shri Bhattacharjya must explain as to how could Shri Rama's fourteen years of exile mean only fourteen years or his marriage at the age of about seventeen mean only seventeen years! Why are they not divya-varshas?> 5.. Shri Bhattacharjya says that Dr. Vartak has calculated the date of Shri Ram as December 4, 7323 on the basis of planetary position of the VR and AR correctly. That means that Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya presume Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets were being calculated in India more than 9000 years back! India, however, does not have any records talking of Mesha etc. Rashis vis-Ã -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets before the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---a work of about early centuries of Common Era!> 6.. Mesha etc. Rashis vis-a-vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets were not known anywhere in the world till about five to six thousand years back, earliest! But Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya discovered them even much earlier---9000 years back and that also in the VR and AR! Thus Shri Bhattacharjya is again using his "parkoshya knowledge" of having "seen" Mesha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets before anybody else! He is actually making a fool of a common man! Or is it himself?> 7.. As per Dr. Vartak's "most accurate calculations" the Mahabharata war started on October 16, 5561 BCE. If Dr. Vartak is a scholar of that high caliber and a mathematical wizard according to Shri Bhattacharjya, why does he not agree with Dr. Vartak on the Mbh date? Why does Shri Bhattacharjya insist that the Mahabharata war took place only after July 19, 3228 BCE, since "Vedic astrologers" like Dr. B. V. Raman have erected "correct birth chart" (sic!) of Bhagwan Krishna for that date in his Notable Holroscopes. Heads I win and tails you lose!> 8.. Shri Bhattacharya says that the Manu has advised kings to consult jyotishis! He is again taking the general public for a ride, since he has as yet to quote the exact references.> 9.. There are hundreds of thousands of jyotishis in India, but Shri Bhattacharjya is the only one who is being prompted to counter the shastriac as well as astronomical facts!!! > Need I say anything more? > > A K Kaul> > > > vedic_research_institute , Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:> > Re: [VRI] Dating the Ramayana Period > > > Dear friends,> > Shri Kaul does not understand Sanskrit at all as seen from the fact that he had given the wrong translation of the Ramayana verse. He also does not understand the Hindu astrology as well as the Hindu Astronomy, as we have seen during these discussions. He could not understnd even that in 24 hours all the 12 Lagnas can occur. He calls me a Paroksha professor. He himself is neither a Paroksha professor nor a Pratyaksha professor. What professor will he like me to call him? He is calling my showing that he has given a wrong translation as one up-manship and it automatically happens when one person points out another person's misinterpretations. I have already sifted the grain from the chaff by showing that Shri Kaul have given the wrong translation of the Sanskrit verse. > > Lord Rama was born at midday ie. noon. Bharata was born 14 hours after that and everybody will understnd that Bharata was born after 2 pm at night. The day is counted from the Sunrise to the next Sunrise. Shri Kaul should please refer to my mail in which I have given the original Sanskrit verse regarding the birth of Bharata, Lakshman and Shatrughna. Lakshman and Shatrughna were born in the Karkata lagna the next day. No astrologer will have any difficulty in understanding that. as Shri Kaul does not know astrology he should not pose as an expert in the area he is not familiar with.> > The main issue is that the data given in the Valmiki Ramayana are correct and adequate to find the date of Lord Rama and Dr. P.V.Vartak has already shown from the precessional calculations followed by other astronomical calculations that Lord Rama was born in 7323 BCE. If anybody thinks that he has a more accurate date he may be welcome to present his findings. The discussion on the issue on the data on the birth of Lord Rama is closed from my side. If any other member wants to continue he or she may. > > > Not knowing Sanskrit and not knowing Astrology is not a crime. or a deficiency. My advice to Shri Kaul is not to talk about Astrology, the subject which he does not really know. He should not contest the Hindu Panchaanga also as he wants to leave out the nakshatras. It is known to the scholars that nakshatra is one of the inseparable anga (or limb) among the five angas of the Panchaanga (five-limbed calendar). Without the nakshatras one can make only a Chaturanga (four-limbed calendar) and not the widely accepted Panchaanga. If anybody has any wothwhile suggestion for improvement it has to be comapatible with all the fine angas taken together.> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > --- On Tue, 9/22/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ wrote:> > > jyotirved jyotirved@> [VRI] Dating the Ramayana Period> vedic_research_institute > Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:18 AM > > > > > > > > Dear friends,> > Jai Shri Ram, > > Shri Bhattacharjya is interested more in one up-manship than sifting grain from the chaff! > > 1.. If the Valmiki Ramayana, Balakanda 18/15-16, itself says, â?osaarpe jatav tu saumitree kuleere abyudite ravavâ? how can anybody interpret it that Bharata and Shatrugana were born the next day after Shri Ram when their sun was in Karkata whereas the sun of Shri Ram was in Mesha? Thus Mr. Bhattacharjya himself is displaying publicly his own ignorance!> 2.. The planetary data given in the Adyatma Ramayana and Valmiki Ramayana is the same because both are interpolations, either by one and the same good for nothing jyotishi or the Adyatma Ramayana interpolator has copied the jyotisha interpolations of the VR. Such activities are very common with Jyotishis in India---Narada Purana has interpolations of Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas, which in themselves are interpolations of a much later date in the Surya Sidhanta itself! Vishnudharmotara- Purana talks of a Paitamaha Sidhanta that has actually been purloined from Brahma Sphuta Sidhanta of Brahma-gupta and so on.> 3.. If unequal division of nakshatras was followed in India in the past, that means the system of muhurta, predictions and also festivals being followed these days by these very â?oVedic astrologersâ?, including Shri Bhattacharjya, on the basis of equal nakshatra division is wrong! So all the jyotisha shastras, inlcudng Brihat jatakam and Brihat (Varahi) Samhita etc., being followed at present also are wrong! No wonder, â?oVedic jyotishisâ? like Shri Bhattacharjya are making correct predictions from those very works from incorrect division of nakshatras! That vindicates my stand that â?oVedic jyotishisâ? can make correct predictions only from incorrect data!> 4.. Since Shri Bhattacharjya is a Paroskhya-darshi, he alone can see through his â?oparoskhya knowledgeâ? that by eleven thousand years of Ramarajya the good for nothing interpolator jyotihsi had meant that a so called â?odivya varshaâ? of Shri Rama had been taken as 30.5 years of mankind! But then Shri Bhattacharjya must explain as to how could Shri Ramaâ?Ts fourteen years of exile mean only fourteen years or his marriage at the age of about seventeen mean only seventeen years! Why are they not divya-varshas?> 5.. Shri Bhattacharjya says that Dr. Vartak has calculated the date of Shri Ram as December 4, 7323 on the basis of planetary position of the VR and AR correctly. That means that Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya presume Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets were being calculated in India more than 9000 years back! India, however, does not have any records talking of Mesha etc. Rashis vis-Ã -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets before the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha---a work of about early centuries of Common Era!> 6.. Mesha etc. Rashis vis-a-vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets were not known anywhere in the world till about five to six thousand years back, earliest! But Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhattacharjya discovered them even much earlier---9000 years back and that also in the VR! Thus Shri Bhattacharjya is again using his â?oparkoshya knowledgeâ? of having â?oseenâ? Mesha etc. Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets before anybody else! He is actually making a fool of a common man! Or is it himself?> 7.. As per Dr. Vartakâ?Ts â?omost accurate calculationsâ? the Mahabharata war started on October 16, 5561 BCE. If Dr. Vartak is a scholar of that high caliber and a mathematical wizard according to Shri Bhattacharjya, why does he not agree with Dr. Vartak on the Mbh date? Why does Shri Bhattacharjya insist that the Mahabharata war took place only after July 19, 3228 BCE, since â?oVedic astrologersâ? like Dr. B. V. Raman have erected â?ocorrect birth chartâ? (sic!) of Bhagwan Krishna for that date in his Notable Holroscopes. Heads I win and tails you lose!> 8.. Shri Bhattacharya says that the Manu has advised kings to consult jyotishis! He is again taking the general public for a ride, since he has as yet to quote the exact references.> 9.. There are hundreds of thousands of jyotishis in India, but Shri Bhattacharjya is the only one who is being prompted to counter the shastriac as well as astronomical facts!!! > Need I say anything more? > > Jai Shri Ram > > A K Kaul> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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