Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Shri Vinay Jha-ji, Jai Shri Ram! <But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message at http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved> I had posted some message to several forums including Vedic Astrologyforum owned by you. Whereas it appeared on all the other forums, it did not appear on your forum for several days. That gave me the reason to feel that you had started moderating my posts. Later I found that there was some problem with , since several times one and the same message would appear on all the other forums immediately but not on hinducalendar forum, owned by me! Similarly, a post on astronomy_activities_2009 (un-moderated forum) appeared after several days after it had appeared in other forums including —where posts are moderated!! It was a genuine misunderstanding and I am sorry if it has hurt your feelings. <As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with liars.> I think it is the other way round! There is no predictive astrology in the Vedas since there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor Mangal, Shani etc. planets there----not at least in the sense they are being used by “Vedic astrologers”! As such, to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology is repugnant to the letter and spirit of the Vedas! Those who claim that " Vedic astrology " is either a science or a shastra sanctioned by the Vedas will have to prove it! <Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had banned me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had invited Shri Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open discussion since the posts to that forum are not moderated! However, he declined to do so under one pretext or the other!> It is a fact that I reply every technical query if it appears in any forum where I am a member. I was informed by several members that quite a few members of one or the other Vedic Astrology or indianastrology etc. forums were discussing my mails there, when actually I had been either banned by them or hounded out! In fact quite a few mails of mine were being discussed in this also before I joined it! As you are aware, I have kept hinducalendar forum an open forum so that the contents can be read by anybody even if he/she is not a member of that forum. However, astrology forums do not even have that type of an open mind! As such, I could not read your posts on those forums, much less answer them. Why I call those jyotish forums cowards is because those forums have about fifteen thousand members all told! All the members are either top-notch jyotisha-gurus or scholars extraordinary, besides being software experts, in one or the other way and they claim to be making correct predictions as well! With such a battery of “advocates” at their command, they could not answer the points raised by me and as such, they decided to “kill the messenger” instead of reading/answering the message! That is why I call them cowards. On the other hand, take the moderator/owner of this “” about which you had complained sometime back that your mails were blocked here because they were about a particular member! MY experience with this group has been entirely different! If the moderator/owner feels that the mail/post is not in good taste for a particular individual or jyotishis collectively, all he has asked to do is to modify the language---but he has not blocked any mail, in spite of being a jyotisha follower himself! < I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should not appear in astrological forums.> If you point out such mails as are non-astrological that I have posted in your forum, I will certainly remove them myself. Regarding other jyotisha forums where posts are moderated, I think we should leave it to the moderators of those forums to decide as to what are jyotisha or non-jyotisha messages! Personally, I have never asked any moderator till date as to why he has not let my mail appear in the forum. < AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, e.g., his assertions about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala.> There have been lengthy discussions in several forums including Hinducalendar and hinducivilization etc. (I have d from the latter) on the topic of ayanamsha in the sidhantas etc. prior to Munjala! I have raised several points there which have not been answered by anyone. Some of these are: 1. The ayanamsha shlokas in the Surya Sidhanta are interpolations of a much later date—post Munjala. 2. Those shlokas yield absolutely wrong results vis-à-vis precession! 3. Those shlokas yield absolutely contrary results to the ayanamsha being followed these days by jyotishis! 4. Those very ayanamsha interpolated shlokas have been lifted and interpolated as it is in Narada-Purana without any proper acknowledgement thus making even Narada Purana suspect of having more concoctions in the name of Narada-Muni than there being anything original from Narada-muni, the son of Brahma ji. 5. The Gita Press Hindi translator has interpreted those interpolated interpolations in such a manner as to convey the feeling that the Surya Sidhanta (and by implication Narada Purana too) had suggested Lahiri Ayanamsha! 6. Munjala had advised that the ayanamsha @ one arc-minute per year from Shaka 444 must be added to the Surya Sidhanta longitudes so as to make them “drik-tulya” i.e., Sayana. 7. That practice was followed for several centuries throughout India, but somehow Ganesha Daivajnya put the cart before the horse in sixteenth century AD, and advised, through his Grahalaghava, to subtract ayanamsha @ one arc-minute from Shaka 444 from the actual “drik-longitudes” (i.e. Sayana)---quite contrary to what Munjala had advised. 8. There are about a dozen ayanamshas being followed as on date! All of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! These are besides the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha, which is much different from any ayanamsha prevailing as on date! 9. Why is it taking “Vedic astrologers” thousands of years to decide as to which Ayanamsha, if any, is correct? 10. There being so many ayanamshas floating around in itself proves that nobody knows when it started and why actually and whether it should continue at all! 11. The net result of all these ayanamsha curses has been that we are celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days, thanks to “Vedic astrology” and “Vedic astrologers”. Hope all your points have been clarified. Since you are a monk and a seeker of Truth and nothing but Truth, pl. do ponder on all these points raised by me with an unbiased mind! If you have any contrarian views, pl. do put them forward and I will definitely correct my views if they are proved wrong. In the end, as you know, satyameva jayate! Jai Shri Ram! A K Kaul , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > To All > > I decided 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies and devote > my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away from > internet and from my town. But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am > moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message at > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved > > <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must > have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had banned > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had invited Shri > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open discussion > since the posts to that forum re not moderated! However, he declined to > do so under one pretext or the other! > Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of ! But > there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective posts to > appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my views on > his own forum! > Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the truth that > the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> > > I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was away from > my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to my forum. > I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should not > appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or anyone else > is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask managers. > > It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. > > As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with > liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics raised by AKK > at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian > astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient > astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his assertions > about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. > > -Vinay jha > ===================== === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Vedic AstrologyForum , " Krishen " <a_krishen wrote: Shri Vinay Jha ji, Jai Shri Ram! I am not even in the least surprised to see your answer to my post especially the comments, " Hence, you must be AT LEAST a senior professor to profess your views. OR, you must get some recognized university teaching Jyotishan your side. I am Trustee and secretary of seven Sanskrit colleges and other institutions, and I know the worth of a degree of Shaastri " It just shows you are not interested in a smooth discussoin at all since it means that anyone who is not a " senior professor " cannot discuss anything! <Hence, Shaastri or Acharya or even PhD is worthless, you must be a reputed PROFESSOR IN THIS FIELD to profess your own views.> The logo on you forum says, " Testing traditional methods of astrology is one of our principal tasks. Comparison of modern astronomy with traditional systems such as Suryasiddhanta for getting best outcomes for the purposes of predictive astrology is one of out main goals. Debates may be allowed, but only in a friendly manner and without personal attacks. " You should have put a condition there that only " university professors " can discuss things in this forum! < I tested your credentials and proficiency in this field while you were wrongly computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha 10 months ago in AIA forum. > I have left that forum about two years back! It is thus clear that you have discussed that issue with somebody else! In any case, why can't you post those mails again so that we could discuss as to what has gone wrong and where in the Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas. <Should I show how many ABUSIVE remarks have you posted for Vedic Astrology and vedic asgtrologers in various fora ??> If anyone claims that he/she practises Vedic astrology, he/she must be able to prove that there are Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas, and there are mehtodologies of calculating planetary longitudes of Mangal, Shani etc. vis-a-vis those very " Vedic rashis " in the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. He/she must also be able to prove that the hundreds of Ayanamshas being used are all Vedic, and so are the hundreds of Dasha-bhuktis etc. He/she must be able to clearly establish the link between the Vedic nakshatras like Krittika, Mrigashira etc. vis-a-vis Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis by quoting, with exact references and translating the Vedic mantras that talk that way. Then he/she has also to link the vargas, hundreds of them, to the Rashis as per the Vedic mantras. In short, if someone wants to estblish that the predictive gimmicks he/she follows are Vedic, he/she must give a clear proof that is beyond all the reasonable doubts! Since we do not find any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas and since there are no such " twelve equal division " as per modern astronomy either, nor does any zodiac exist in reality---it is just an imaginary " circle of animals " ---how do you expect sensible Hindus to belive that predictive gimmicks followed by some jyotishis on the basis of non-existent rashis and inanimate planets etc. are all creations of the real Vamadeva and Vishvamitra and Atri and Shaunaka etc. Rishis? Do you mean to say that we must believe blindly in the statements of some jyotishis that our Vedic seers were not aware of the fact that the so called rashichakra is a phantasmagoria, so are the Mesha, Vrisha etc. animals supposed to be crawling on the same and the Mangal, Shani etc. planets that are supposed to be governing your and my fate are nothing but inanimate wandering bodies? Do you mean to say that the Vedic seers did not have that much of knowledge either to sift grain from the chaff and they also believed that non-existent Mesha, Vrisha etc. animals are holding us in their thraldom? If something is non-existent as per modern astronomy, how and why do you expect our Vedic Seers to have succumbed to the temptation of making correct predictoins from those very non-existent " aninmals " of a non-existent zodiac? Are you doing justice to the Vedic seers by ascribing such ignorance to them? What type of a Vedic scholar, and a Professor, to boot, are you? < Sir, we can forget the past and discuss things afresh, provided abusive language is avoided and opinions are based on hard facts and evidences , which seems to be next to impossible as far as your past behaviour suggests. > My dear Vinay Jha ji, the hard facts have been kept before you several times! Why can't you just understand the anguish that I am feeling by the sad fact that scholars like you are going all out to defend some predictive gimmicks in the name of Vedic astrology, when there is not even an iota of evidence in any of the Vedas or shastras that the Vedic seers ever believed in having their future deciphered and that also through non-existent rashi-animals, via inanimate wandering bodies, and that also through esluive dasha-bhuktis and pratyantara and what not? What is there to be discussed about such a " naked truth " that the Hindus are being taken for a ride in the name of Vedic astrology? < I am really not interested in any discussion with you, because you are really not interested in checking the proofs of accuracy of Vedic Astrology. > You are really talking in circles! You want me to check the proofs of accura y of " Vedic astrology " when in the very first place, you are unable to establish that there are any predictive gimmicks in any of the Vedas! <Siddhanta-shiromani quoted some lost version of Suryasiddhanta and used Munjala's formula TOGETHER WITH this lost formula of Suryasiddhanta.> I wonder if you have read the Laghumanasa of Munjala yourself! Do you know what he has advised about calculating the Ayanamsha and how it is to be adjusted? Yes, the Sidhanta Shiromani has talked about Munjala's ayanamsha and since you have not read Munjala in the first place, how can you understand as to what Bhaskara-II wanted to say? Dear Vinay Jahaji, since you are a monk, you can do a lot of good to Hindu society as a whole. And the maximum good you can do is by making the common man aware that there are no predictive gimmicks in the Vedas, and as such, there canot be any Vedic astrology! That way you can also make the entire Hindu communituy celebrate all the festivals on correct days, which are being celebrated on wrong days, just thanks o " Vedic astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " Jai Shri Ram. A K Kaul Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " vj.jyotish@ wrote: > > Kaul Ji, > > The certificates you are citing are meaningless : you are challenging an > entire discipline which is being taught in all recognized Sanskrit > universities. Hence, you must be AT LEAST a senior professor to > profess your views. OR, you must get some recognized university teaching > Jyotishan your side. I am Trustee and secretary of seven Sanskrit > colleges and other institutions, and I know the worth of a degree of > Shaastri : it is being obtaind for less than a song in most of the > colleges. I am unable to prevent malpractices even in colleges which > have included me in board of trustees, although I am fighting against > the corrupt system. Hence, Shaastri or Acharya or even PhD is > worthless, you must be a reputed PROFESSOR IN THIS FIELD to profess > your own views. > > I tested your credentials and proficiency in this field while you were > wrongly computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha 10 months ago in AIA > forum. I was also sorry for your blatant haughtiness towards RN > Iyengar Ji, whom I do not know. Should I show how many ABUSIVE remarks > have you posted for Vedic Astrology and vedic asgtrologers in various > fora ?? > > Sir, we can forget the past and discuss things afresh, provided abusive > language is avoided and opinions are based on hard facts and evidences , > which seems to be next to impossible as far as your past behaviour > suggests. Your supporter Prashant Pandey started an abusive attack on me > just because he did not like my answers to your attacks on Vedic > Astrology. Abuses start when sound arguments end. > > I am really not interested in any discussion with you, because you are > really not interested in checking the proofs of accuracy of Vedic > Astrology. But if you meet me in any conference, we can discuss things > in private or publicly. > > I am sorry for your utter disregard for factual evidences put forth by > me concerning knowledge of modern concept of precession in ancient > India, and the difference between precession and ayanamsha. It is a very > difficult topic because ancients did not write in strightforward manner. > Please re-read the verses of Siddhanta-shiromani and computations based > on it. Siddhanta-shiromani quoted some lost version of Suryasiddhanta > and used Munjala's formula TOGETHER WITH this lost formula of > Suryasiddhanta. If commentators neglected these verses, it is their > fault, and not of ancients. Why you are so incapable of learning new > things ?? Old age problem ?? I am not insulting you : you are > insulting Truth by distorting facts. > > If you want real debate, Varanasi Vidvat Parishad can be requested to > organize such a debate in which heads of departments of Jyotisha from > Benaras Hindu University, Sampoornanand Sanskrit University, and other > such universities may be invited. A better alternative is to wait for a > conference in which these scholars will be already present. > > Experts of this field avoid internet fora due to two reasons : they are > busy, and they are not deft in handling computers or internet. Hence, > conference is the best method. I will like to meet you in any > astrologicaql conference. On 20 Dec 2009, a conference is being held at > Patna, organized by scholars of Kashi and their friends in Patna, none > of whom I have ever met. They have invited me as a special guest. If > you attend this conference, I will be glad to discuss things with you. > There are things which can be quickly shown face to face but need > considerable time over internet. You do not know what you are doing by > attacking the most scientific and most accurate branch of human > knowledge : Vedic Jyotisha. I can show you ample proofs face to face. I > had invited Prashant Pandey at International Astrological Conference at > Allahabad (28 Feb-Mar 1, 2009), but he did not turn up. I have never > organized any astro conference, hence I cannot send invitation letters > on behalf of the organizers. > > -Vinay Jha > ==================== ======= > Vedic AstrologyForum , " Krishen " a_krishen@ > wrote: > > > > > > Shri Vinay Jha ji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > <If you want any real discussion, you must chose a proper forum : a > > panel of university experts instead of an internet forum.> > > It would really be a pleasure for me if you could co-opt a panel of > > unversity experts in your own forum or some other forum so that the > > issues could be discussed threadbare. > > I hope you will appreciate that it is otherwise difficult to call all > > the experts in various fields at one place so that you could have a > > debate with me! > > < I have to subsist on juices and groundnuts for months due to > workload> > > I really appreciate your tapasya and hard work and have great regards > > for your tapasya and also scholarship. > > <I have neither any time nor any willingness to discuss anything with > > you.> > > You have created a forum named " vediastrololgyforum " , and anybody can > > post any relevant mail on the same. It is not necessary for anybody, > > including the owner of the forum, to reply any of the mails. If you > > have neither willingness nor time to discuss anything with me, fine. > > You do not have to answer any of my mails. > > < Can you have some mercy on me ?> > > Being a monk, you are a venerable person for me. As such, pl do not > > make such requests. > > < I have no time for you, unless you chose a forum of experts or a > court > > of law.> > > Regarding forum of expers, I have given you a suggestion already. > > Regarding a court of law, I am not sure that that is a proper " forum " > > who can arbitrate on the discussion/debate regarding the subtle > > astronomical points in the sidhantas etc. Besides, that is also a > > highly time consuming process. > > <I refuse to waste my time with persons like you : you may be a great > > person,> > > I am a learner and a student and will remain so throughout my life. > > < but you lack credentials and degrees from reputed universities in > > these topics. > > > This is really a surprsing statement from a scholar like you! I do > not > > know what you mean by " you lack credentials and degrees from reputed > > universities " . I have cleared Shastri examinatioin in 1964 from J & K > > University! Of course, I do not wear that degree round my neck like a > > milstone by calling myself " Shastri A K Kaul " ! > > I have cleared B.Sc. with maths in 1963. I have also cleared M.A. in > > English. I have Honours in Hindi language i.e. Prabhakar! > > I do not know what other degrees you would like me to have for > enetering > > into a discussion about the so called Vedic astrology! > > <I do not want to ban or insult you, unless and until I am compelled> > > As far as I am concerned, I will never try to insult you since you are > a > > monk, even if I do not agree with your views. > > Whether or not you ban me, it is upto you, since I know it already > that > > most of the " Vedic asterologers " are cowards but being a monk, I do > not > > expect you to be one. > > < With Regards!!!> > > With best regards to you as a monk, > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " vj.jyotish@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Shri Kaul ji, > > > > > > If you want any real discussion, you must chose a proper forum : a > > panel > > > of university experts instead of an internet forum. > > > > > > I have to subsist on juices and groundnuts for months due to > workload, > > I > > > have neither any time nor any willingness to discuss anything with > > you. > > > Can you have some mercy on me ? I have no time for you, unless you > > chose > > > a forum of experts or a court of law. > > > > > > I refuse to waste my time with persons like you : you may be a great > > > person, but you lack credentials and degrees from reputed > universities > > > in these topics. I do not want to ban or insult you, unless and > until > > I > > > am compelled. Do you understand??? > > > > > > With Regards!!! > > > > > > -VJ > > > ==================== === > > > > > > > > > Vedic AstrologyForum , " jyotirved " a_krishen@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Vinay Jha-ji, > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > <But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am moderating his > > messages > > > in my > > > > forum ; following is his message at > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had posted some message to several forums including > > > Vedic Astrologyforum > > > > owned by you. Whereas it appeared on all the other forums, it did > > not > > > > appear on your forum for several days. That gave me the reason to > > > feel that > > > > you had started moderating my posts. Later I found that there was > > > some > > > > problem with , since several times one and the same message > > would > > > > appear on all the other forums immediately but not on > hinducalendar > > > forum, > > > > owned by me! Similarly, a post on astronomy_activities_2009 > > > (un-moderated > > > > forum) appeared after several days after it had appeared in other > > > forums > > > > including —where posts are moderated!! > > > > > > > > It was a genuine misunderstanding and I am sorry if it has hurt > your > > > > feelings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > > > Astrology, > > > > and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with > liars.> > > > > > > > > I think it is the other way round! There is no predictive > astrology > > > in the > > > > Vedas since there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor > Mangal, > > > Shani > > > > etc. planets there----not at least in the sense they are being > used > > by > > > > " Vedic astrologers " ! As such, to call any predictive gimmicks > > > as Vedic > > > > astrology is repugnant to the letter and spirit of the Vedas! > Those > > > who > > > > claim that " Vedic astrology " is either a science or a shastra > > > sanctioned by > > > > the Vedas will have to prove it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he must > > > have > > > > posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had banned > > > > > > > > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had > invited > > > Shri > > > > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open > discussion > > > since > > > > the posts to that forum are not moderated! However, he declined to > > do > > > so > > > > under one pretext or the other!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a fact that I reply every technical query if it appears in > any > > > forum > > > > where I am a member. I was informed by several members that quite > a > > > few > > > > members of one or the other Vedic Astrology or indianastrology etc. > > > forums > > > > were discussing my mails there, when actually I had been either > > banned > > > by > > > > them or hounded out! In fact quite a few mails of mine were being > > > discussed > > > > in this also before I joined it! As you are aware, I > > > have kept > > > > hinducalendar forum an open forum so that the contents can be read > > by > > > > anybody even if he/she is not a member of that forum. However, > > > astrology > > > > forums do not even have that type of an open mind! As such, I > could > > > not > > > > read your posts on those forums, much less answer them. > > > > > > > > Why I call those jyotish forums cowards is because those forums > > have > > > about > > > > fifteen thousand members all told! All the members are either > > > top-notch > > > > jyotisha-gurus or scholars extraordinary, besides being software > > > experts, > > > > in one or the other way and they claim to be making correct > > > predictions as > > > > well! > > > > > > > > With such a battery of " advocates " at their command, they > > > could not answer > > > > the points raised by me and as such, they decided to " kill the > > > messenger " > > > > instead of reading/answering the message! That is why I call them > > > cowards. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, take the moderator/owner of this > > > " " about > > > > which you had complained sometime back that your mails were > blocked > > > here > > > > because they were about a particular member! MY experience with > > this > > > group > > > > has been entirely different! If the moderator/owner feels that > the > > > > mail/post is not in good taste for a particular individual or > > > jyotishis > > > > collectively, all he has asked to do is to modify the > language---but > > > he has > > > > not blocked any mail, in spite of being a jyotisha follower > > himself! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should > > not > > > appear > > > > in astrological forums.> > > > > > > > > If you point out such mails as are non-astrological that I have > > posted > > > in > > > > your forum, I will certainly remove them myself. > > > > > > > > Regarding other jyotisha forums where posts are moderated, I > think > > we > > > > should leave it to the moderators of those forums to decide as to > > what > > > are > > > > jyotisha or non-jyotisha messages! Personally, I have never asked > > any > > > > moderator till date as to why he has not let my mail appear in the > > > forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient astronomy and is > > > deliberately > > > > distorting things, e.g., his assertions about absence of > ayanamsha > > > and > > > > precession before munjala.> > > > > > > > > There have been lengthy discussions in several forums including > > > > Hinducalendar and hinducivilization etc. (I have d from > > the > > > > latter) on the topic of ayanamsha in the sidhantas etc. prior to > > > Munjala! > > > > I have raised several points there which have not been answered by > > > anyone. > > > > Some of these are: > > > > > > > > 1. The ayanamsha shlokas in the Surya Sidhanta are > > > interpolations of > > > > a much later date—post Munjala. > > > > > > > > 2. Those shlokas yield absolutely wrong results vis-à-vis > > > precession! > > > > > > > > 3. Those shlokas yield absolutely contrary results to the > > > ayanamsha > > > > being followed these days by jyotishis! > > > > > > > > 4. Those very ayanamsha interpolated shlokas have been > lifted > > > and > > > > interpolated as it is in Narada-Purana without any proper > > > acknowledgement > > > > thus making even Narada Purana suspect of having more concoctions > in > > > the > > > > name of Narada-Muni than there being anything original from > > > Narada-muni, the > > > > son of Brahma ji. > > > > > > > > 5. The Gita Press Hindi translator has interpreted those > > > interpolated > > > > interpolations in such a manner as to convey the feeling that the > > > Surya > > > > Sidhanta (and by implication Narada Purana too) had suggested > Lahiri > > > > Ayanamsha! > > > > > > > > 6. Munjala had advised that the ayanamsha @ one arc-minute > per > > > year > > > > from Shaka 444 must be added to the Surya Sidhanta longitudes so > as > > to > > > make > > > > them " drik-tulya " i.e., Sayana. > > > > > > > > 7. That practice was followed for several centuries > throughout > > > India, > > > > but somehow Ganesha Daivajnya put the cart before the horse in > > > sixteenth > > > > century AD, and advised, through his Grahalaghava, to subtract > > > ayanamsha @ > > > > one arc-minute from Shaka 444 from the actual > > > " drik-longitudes " (i.e. > > > > Sayana)---quite contrary to what Munjala had advised. > > > > > > > > 8. There are about a dozen ayanamshas being followed as on > > date! > > > All > > > > of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! These > > are > > > > besides the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha, which is much different from > > any > > > > ayanamsha prevailing as on date! > > > > > > > > 9. Why is it taking " Vedic astrologers " thousands of > > > years to decide > > > > as to which Ayanamsha, if any, is correct? > > > > > > > > 10. There being so many ayanamshas floating around in itself > > proves > > > that > > > > nobody knows when it started and why actually and whether it > should > > > continue > > > > at all! > > > > > > > > 11. The net result of all these ayanamsha curses has been that > we > > > are > > > > celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days, thanks > to > > > " Vedic > > > > astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope all your points have been clarified. Since you are a monk > and > > a > > > > seeker of Truth and nothing but Truth, pl. do ponder on all these > > > points > > > > raised by me with an unbiased mind! If you have any contrarian > > views, > > > pl. > > > > do put them forward and I will definitely correct my views if they > > are > > > > proved wrong. > > > > > > > > In the end, as you know, satyameva jayate! > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I decided 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies and > > > devote > > > > > > > > > my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away > from > > > > > > > > > internet and from my town. But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies > > that > > > I am > > > > > > > > > moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message > at > > > > > > > > > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he > > must > > > > > > > > > have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had > > > banned > > > > > > > > > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had > > invited > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open > > discussion > > > > > > > > > since the posts to that forum re not moderated! However, he > > declined > > > to > > > > > > > > > do so under one pretext or the other! > > > > > > > > > Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of > > ! > > > But > > > > > > > > > there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective posts > to > > > > > > > > > appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my > > views > > > on > > > > > > > > > his own forum! > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the > > truth > > > that > > > > > > > > > the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was > > away > > > from > > > > > > > > > my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to > my > > > forum. > > > > > > > > > I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails should > > not > > > > > > > > > appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or > > anyone > > > else > > > > > > > > > is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask > > > managers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > > > > > > > > > Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss > anything > > > with > > > > > > > > > liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics raised > by > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian > > > > > > > > > astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of > ancient > > > > > > > > > astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his > > > assertions > > > > > > > > > about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Vinay jha > > > > > > > > > ===================== === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Namaskaar All In 2005 and again in 2007, I had an exchange of posts with Sh. AKK. Below is an exchange that happened in 2007. On both occasions he disappeared. I asked him many basic questions earlier and he did not have an answer to them. He indulges in criticism of others and shows them down, projecting himself as a great mahatma who has read all the four Vedas in sanskrit. As you would notice, he does not have even the basic knowledge of the same. I reproduce one such exchange for your kind reference: Namaskaar Friends, Below is my simple reply to Sri Avtar Kishen Kaul, who has been harping about Astrology not being Vedic. I have replied but only for the information of my Vedic Astrology friends. My reply to him is in Blue color. > 1. Whether Indian or Western, no system of predictions has any > sanction either from the Vedas or even Puranas least of all our > dharmashastras etc. > (BHARAT start) I see you have a wrong meaning of Vedic Astrology. Predictions isn't Vedic Astrology. Indications are. The fundamental cause and effect relationship exists and that is what is to be indicated for a said karma. Kindly read the following: Vedanga refers to those bodies of knowledge that are the " limbs " to the Vedas. In other words, it aids in understanding of the Vedas. It would be important to understand what Vedas are. The word " Veda " means knowledge. Vedas contain aphorisms to understand the true identity of ourselves. Many people think Vedas are part of Hindu Religion. It would correct to say that Hindu Religion has adopted itself from the Vedas. Vedas are universal and came before the word " Hindu " came into being. Jyotish is a Vedanga and in its approach it follows the Vedic teaching. Jyotish cannot go against the Vedas in its teaching or analysis. Jyotish follows the principle of freedom of choice. It gives individuals the right to choose in any given situation. The choices always available to an individual in any given situation of life are: 1. To react (anger, jealousy, envy, fear, fight, arrogance, likes, dislikes, etc.) 2. To pro act (do one's action as required by the call of duty, without involving oneself in the above reactions). 3. Remain calm without any action (Realizing the results are given by the lord, and accepting them without any reaction) The 2nd choice has all the elements of the 3rd choice. Jyotish as a subject never undermines these choices. With these choices, one can change one's future. With the first choice, one can enhance the difficulties in one's destiny and with, the second and third choice; one can enhance the quality of destiny in happiness and success. Each time you make the 2nd or 3rd choice, you weaken the reactions within yourself. Over a period of time, you stop reacting at all. Jyotish understands this principle and employs it. Jyotish never promises a pre destined life. Mother, father, brother, sister may be predestined but not your future. Your future depends upon the choices. (BHARAT end) 2. All our shastras admonish us from consulting ?nakshatra > jeevis? so much so that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrajeevis > as outcastes and not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people. > (BHARAT start) Manu smriti also talks a lot about treatment of women, etc. I am sure you do not follow the same. (BHARAT end) > > 3. The Manusmriti advises that ?The king must keep a watch on his > kingdom like a heron and act with prowess like a lion? --- nowhere > has he advised to consult some soothsayer before undertaking any > activity! > (BHARAT start) People do quote from books that they themselves do not follow, just to drill a point. I take it that you did the same. (BHARAT end) > 4. All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or > Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc. say that before deciding about the > coronation of Bhagwan Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to > find some suitable muhurtas for that function. It was on the advice > of Bhagwan Vasishtha that Dasharatha decided to anoint the Yuvraja > the very next day, as it was ?Tishya? then. It is clear that either > Vasishtha Muni did not know as to what was going to happen to > Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama as crown-prince or he kept > quiet deliberately since he did not want to interfere in the divine > dispensation! > Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and being a highly exalted yogi > as well as jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as > future. It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as to > what is going to happen, they do not reveal our ?bhavishya? before > hand, unlike the breed of astrologers of today, who masquerade as ? > Paasharas? and ?Vamadevas? to tell us even our past and future > janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts > are fundamentally incorrect. > (BHARAT start) It is your notion that charts are fundamentally incorrect. Your notion that Astrologer is someone who has no knowledge of the Veda is also incorrect. If the " astrologer " does not understand the Vedas, he is likely to make many mistakes in his/her analysis. Vedas are supreme. Why are you even comparing Astrology to Vedas? One who understands - Isavasya Idam sarvam.... does not need Astrology. Astrology is for those who are pursuing the three purusharthas of Artha, Kama through Dharma and facing problems in the same. It is an attempt to help a person understand onself better. For the 4th purushartha of Moksha, astrology can help overcome some tendencies, but, nothing more. (BHARAT end) > > 5. Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial > measure to their clients, and mostly these are in the form of > various gems. What is surprising is that we have become so > dimwitted that we forget our entire itihasa of our past! > (i) Why was Dasharatha not suggested some ?ruby? or ? > coral? to ward off the evil Dasha that was going to kill him when > Rama would leave for the forests? > Because our Rishis were not greedy to have claimed to cheat death by > just making him buy some gems! > (BHARAT start) Dimwitted surely we have become, but, you have a nasty tendency of not including yourself amongst the dimwitted. King Dasharatha might have been decked up with jewels, we have no clue about the same. However, who says one can cheat death by using gemstones? Your imaginations must be running wild, as I haven't seen a single astrologer attempting to overcome death by wearing gemstones. Yes, astrologers give remedies and one such remedy is Mahamritunjya Mantra. Taken from Rudram in the Veda, it is a potent mantra and protects the individual from early death and accidents. It does not attempt to cheat death. It is to protect from accidents, crippling incidents, etc. This is for the physical plane. The real meaning of this mantra as powerful as many verses of the Upanishads. It is the Veda that has given us the statement - Om purnamadah purnamidam..... ..it is the Veda that has given the statement - Isavasya idam sarvam.... ...Tat Twam Asi.... Aham Brahmasmi....which proves that all this is existing is nothing but Brahman. Therefore, your ridiculing a gemstone is ridiculing the Brahman itself. Why will a gemstone not have an effect? If there are researchers who work hard towards finding the connection between the effects of gemstones and human body, why does it hurt you? I guess you forgot to include yourself amongst the dimwitted. (BHARAT end) (ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He > could not use some ?sapphire? to take birth in a palace! > (BHARAT start) The birth of individual consciousness always happens in a dark cave seeking an escape from the darkness. There is a huge symbolism here that you have neither strived to study or to seek help from spiritual gaints of India. Instead of studying Vedas and Puranas under a Guru, you tried to make your own meanings. The essence of the Vedas is Vedanta. The upanishads are collectively called Vedanta. Bhagwan Veda Vyasa (Bhadrayana) compiled the Vedas and wrote Brahma Sutras to help extract the real meaning of Vedanta. He further wrote the Mahabharata, perhaps for bringing out the Srimad Bhagawat Gita as a commentary upon the upanishads. Some statements of Bhagwan Krishna in Bhagwad Gita are directly from the Upanishads. Further, Prabhu Veda Vyaasa wrote the Puranas to explain Vedanta in a symbolic story form. From one Purana, you have taken the above mentioned incident and tried to apply it against gemstones. Grand is your intellect I must say. This I must say means - that you have no clue about Puranas nor about gemstones and you are trying to guide people against both. (BHARAT end) (iii)Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna--- were in > chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a > complete ? 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and > was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! He could > loosen the chains of His mother as well as father while taking birth > in a prison! He could make all the guards of Kansa?s prison fall > asleep while being taken out of prison by Vasudeva! He demonstrated > His Omnipotence by making Yamuna recede while Vasudeva was carrying > Him to Gokul from Mathura! He guided Vasudeva on his way back from > Gokul to Mathura in a dark night full of torrential rains and > storms! The guards remained asleep till Vasudeva entered the prison > after bringing Yogamaya from Mathura with him! It all shows that > Krishna was really Omnipotent! > But then the moment Vasudeva was back in prison, his fetters were > again gridlocked automatically! Same was the case with Devaki! Both > Devaki and Vasudeva remained in fetters till Kansa was killed by > Krishna! > What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient, > Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not ameliorate the miseries > of His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a > ruby or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all > our miseries or give us a Union Minister?s seat! > Obviously, we are being taken for a ride by such Jyotishis! > (BHARAT start) Another fine example of your ignorance about the Puranas. The symbolic meaning is left and a completely nonsensical meaning has been taken out. I think as per you, Lord Krishna was born to prove the practice of gemstones wrong! Furthermore, you are yourself attacking the Puranas and then using their stories to support your arguments. Are you really a man of wisdom? (BHARAT end) > Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run after > astrologers for knowing her future. She had a rare and original > ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or > she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had > suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of Nepal > as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated ?by the people? they ? > had trusted? ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding! > (BHARAT start) We have no clue or proof that she was wearing one or not. We have no confirmation whether King of Nepal was wearing one or not. Without any proof, by hearing make belief stories, are you not practicing superstition yourself. Using your own superstitions, you are talking against them. This only shows your dual nature. It is this nature I bought out in my earlier discussions with you and you left the group. (BHARAT end) > > What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by soothsayers! > Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by the > then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his ?Tantra-Kriya? but > because of some legal loopholes in FERA! > (BHARAT start) A lot of people are corrupt in any field and that does not mean the entire subject is false. (BHARAT end) > > Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile ?Tantrik?, met with an > accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he could not see > his own death looming large how could he forewarn others! > (BHARAT start) I remember him as a Yoga teacher and a close confident of Smt. Indira Gandhi. Considering him as a Tantric for 5 minutes till you read my reply, if he forewarned people about problems and other issues, has he not served humanity and helped others? A person, who has no clue about the time of the death, cannot stop others from jumping into the well? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. (BHARAT end) > > 6. The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna > expressed his doubt about whether Pandavas would win or lose the > battle, Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer > nor did He tell him to wear some ruby! On the other hand, He just > advised him to fight and either get killed on the battlefield and go > to heavens or win the battle to be the ruler of the entire earth! > What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on any > soothsayers, especially if they call themselves ?Vedic Jyotishis? > since they are taking us for a ride literally. > (BHARAT start) Wrong! Srimad Bhagawad Gita is not the gist of Shastras, but, a superlative explanation and commentary on the upanishads. Lord Krishna advised Arjuna to follow dharma on the battlefield. He advised him many different things at different times. The battlefield is not a place to wear a Ruby or to suggest one. I haven't seen any jyotishi running around in Dras and Batalik during the Kargil war, suggesting rubies to soldiers. Have you? (BHARAT end) > > 7. Yes, Bhagwan Ram did worship Shiva at the time of going to war at > Rameshwaram but that was not to please Mangal or Shani, but to show > respect to the divine trinity -- Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh---in > this case Vishnu worshipping Shiva! > Similarly, at the time of the Mahabharata war Arjuna was asked to > worship Maha-Shakti but not to please Rahu or Ketu but to gain > strength from his own ATMA-Shakti, in the form of Divine Shakti! > The Gita is very clear ?ye yatha mam prapadyante tanstathaiva > bajameaham? --- ?I will > ?worship? you in whatever way you worship Me?. > (BHARAT start) Mahashakti or Adi shakti is the entirety. It isn't different from Shiva. When that is the case, what is wrong in pleasing Rahu and Ketu... the essence of Mahashakti runs through them too. Lord may be worshipped in any form or without form, for all is lord. People tend to worship any deity as per their own devotion. Some do it in meditation, some in temples, some to the trees, some to the animals. What is your problem in the same? Can you directly worship the lord without form, without thought, etc? - If you can, please go ahead. I'd love to see it. (BHARAT end) 8. There is no mention of any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or > Brighu ever having written any works of predictive astrology > in any of the Puranas. The Vishnu Purana by Parasharis is full of > astronomical references ---and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal > year when Mesha sankranti is another name of Spring Equinox and so > on, but we do not find any mention of any Brihat Parasharis Hora > Shastra there! Obviously, it is the worst concoction that can ever > be had, and that is why it is the bible of ?Vedic astrologers? > (BHARAT start) Provide the references that you have read. You already had a discussion with Sri Sreenadh regarding Sayana and Nirayana. Kindly refer the same, rather than harping on the same issue with same words again and again. (BHARAT end) 9. In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers > started runningafter Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time of > Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight against our > own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology before the > invasion of Alexander the Great, and with him the ?Yavana Jatakam? > of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the Yavana > (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more the outsiders > invaded us the more our rulers started consulting soothsayers whom > they called Rajyajyotishis! (In those days jyotishis did not dare > to call themselves Vedic Jyotishis since the general public was not > then that illiterate about the Vedic principles as they are thee > days, thanks to Vedic Jyotishis!) > (BHARAT start) Can you provide proof that " we " started going downhill ever since our rulers ran after Jyotishis? The fact is the declaration of Independence was done by consulting a Jyotishi. We are no way going down as a nation. Our neighbouring nation is surely going down without consulting a Vedic Astrologer. I am sure you have silly imaginations here and no facts. Moreover, your unsaid suggestion that Vedic Astrologers attempt to rectify things without bringing internal change in a person, are totally unfounded. Are you really clear about Astrology? Do you have any idea about Karma? Your suggestions are really saying that you aren't even remotely clear about basic concepts. (BHARAT end) > > 10. These monarchs wanted to know if at all their horoscopes > indicated whether they would win or lose and for winning the > battles, instead of making military preparations they just started > wearing rubies and diamonds to ward off evil spirits! > (BHARAT start) Carry on with your ramblings. (BHARAT end) > > 11. The maximum credit for creating such a fear of omens and > ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to > Varahamihira! It appears he later reincarnated as N. C. Lahiri > since both of them had their own axes to grind -- the former wanted > to make his Brihatsamhita/Brihat Jatakam and Panchasidhantika world > famous and the latter wanted to sell the maximum copies of his > Bangla Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika and ?Lahiri?s Indian Ephemeris??. > Before venturing into the battlefield, these monarchs would ask > their soothsayer to prepare ?narpati jaya charya? and consult Brihat > Samhita etc. to see whether the ?ketuchara? was favorable at that > time or not! No wonder with such a preliminary and hopeless > knowledge of astronomical facts, we were being pushed back into dark > ages by these jyotishis! > 12. Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were > vanquished in every battle whether it was with Alexander the > Great or Chengiz Khan or Muhamud of Gazni or Nadir Shah or the > Moguls or finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence > of our monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the > principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by Chanakya, > who chided the kings for consulting soothsayers! > (BHARAT start) I thought that it was because people and kings were selfish and divided and that is why they fell to such invaders. Whenever we were united, we triumphed. This is news to me that Astrologers were involved. I am really having a nice laugh here now. (BHARAT end) 12. The fate of BJP has not been any better than that of our earlier > monarchs by depending more on their ?Vedic Jyotishis? who were > responsible for getting ?Vedic Jyotisha (sic!)? prescribed in Indian > Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party > and even the ?Minister of astrology? did not even win his own > parliamentary seat, let alone being the Union Minister again, lest > these ?Vedic jyotishis? continued to perpetuate Adharma in the guise > of ?Vedic Jyotisha?! Do you need any other proofs of the fact that > these ?Vedic Jyotishis? are really a scourge who will make you lose > your seat of power just by making you advance your elections? > 13. If we continue to follow the trend of our ?monarchs? of having > blind faith in our soothsayers, there is no doubt that sooner than > later we will become yesteryears? Babylon, which is known as Iraq > these days! > 14. It was priest class i.e. Brahmins the most respected community > with whom the secrets of predictive gimmicks were supposed to > rest! Just see the plight of the Brahmin community these days! > They age treated worse than any OBC in case of government jobs and > other quotas! Why so? Simply because they lost their dharma by > being nakshatra jeevis, caring two hoots for the admonishments of > the Manu! No wonder they ? the Brahmins are not fit for being > consulted in any sabha of scholars! > (BHARAT start) Glad to see you are out of Nakshatra jeevis stranghold. Congratulations. Enjoy your freedom. The same lord who has given you a choice has given me a choice to do as I so wish. I do not see any stronghold, nor do I see Astrologers pumping out the Vedanta knowledge out of me (whatever there is). (BHARAT end) - Hide quoted text - 15. I must put on record that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more > to blame predictive gimmicks and soothsayers, including the > panchanga makers, than anything or anybody else since they never ? > forearmed? (their pet dialogue is ?forewarned is forearmed!)us about > any calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand, > just to prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are > still making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including > Mahashivaratri on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we > had treated as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are > responsible for our downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved > neither our friends, nor philosophers least of all our guides! > These Panchanga makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from > Kashmir --- like the king Hari Sigh at the time of Pakistani raid > in 1948 (hope he had consulted his ?rajajyotishi? to decide the > muhurtas for taking the last flight to Jammu/Mumbai)----since they > had already > made their alternate homes in safer places like Jammu and Delhi > They just proved to be Shylocks, who were only interested in their > Pound of flesh by way of Dakshinas for janmapatris and panchangas > and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and nothing else! > 16. These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that > initially even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had > nothing else to tell us excepting teaching us predictive astrology! > I was also so convinced that it appeared that even the principle of > Secondary Progressions must have been exported from India to Western > countries since the principle of ?A day equals a year? was mentioned > in our Vedas! > (BHARAT start) Why only as a Kashmiri Pundit? You can blame anything even without being a Kashmiri Pundit. That is your very nature. Why bring disrepute to the lovely and knowledgeable Kashmiri Pundit community? Considering what you say is right for 20 seconds, then, I must say your approach to bring change in others is totally unlike Sri Krishna and Sri Chanakya. I guess you yourself haven't learnt any lessons from them. (BHARAT end) 17. However, there are neither rashis like Mesha etc. nor planets > like Mangal, Shani etc. > in the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. etc. Similarly, Vedanga > Jyotisha, as has been made clear several times already, is an > astronomical work of 14th century BCE and tells us as to how to > calculate mean tithi, nakshatra and Uttarayana-cum-Tapah-cum Magha > etc. months. It does not list any rashis nor any planets like > Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case with Yajur Jyotisha of about > 11th century BCE and later Atharva Jyotisha of about 5th century > BCE. As such, it is really a fraud on the Vedas being played by > some charlatans to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology > and hail themselves ?Vedic Jyotishis?. It is equally a crime under > Consumer Protection Act since it is a misrepresentation of facts to > a client and is thus a deficiency in service. > (BHARAT start) Predictive Jyotish is a by product of Jyotish Vedanga. Jyotish as a Vedanga has a role to fulfill as an aid to the Vedas. Its aid is a little different than that of Vyakarana and other Vedangas. Astrology can be a source of spiritual guidance. In Hindu or vedic astrology, planets are called " grahas " . The meaning of a graha is " to seize " . In other words, they seize us into their web and lend reality to thoughts and desires. Their nature, position, association, aspect, etc. determine the nature of thoughts and desires and possible actions. They represent the misinterpretation of the Reality. Give the above, astrology can be used to find out what thinking patterns, desires and expectations bind the individual. One can analyze how the individual is caught up in the web of " Maya " . If we see, different grahas (planets) give the following identifications within one self and consequent binding: Lagna: identification with the individuality in light of consciousness. Moon: identification with the mind and all the emotions arising there from: give rise to the multiplicity and raises the pair of opposites. Mars: identification with ambition, power, conflict and desire. Mercury: identification with the intellect: takes one part of the Reality as right and other as wrong and so on increases its identification. No wonder it is the son of Moon. Jupiter: identification with the values, memory and society. Venus: identification with beauty and physical aspects of nature. Saturn: identification with sorrow and pain and lends reality to the same. Rahu-Ketu: identification with the future and the past, thus lending reality to the concept of time. In this regard, Astrology, as practiced by Hindus, is Vedic contrary to many beliefs and arguments. (BHARAT end)- Hide quoted text - > 18.It is being said that Sir Isaac Newton believed in astrology! > That just is not possible! The astronomical ephemeredes, from > which horoscopes are made, were so incorrect that ?Horary Astrology? > by a world famous Western astrologer, William Lilly, of 17th > century, published by American Federation of Astrologers, has the > planetary positions of all the charts incorrect! He was a > contemporary of Sir Isaac Newton, and thus even if Newton had wanted > to believe in predictive astrology, he could never have done so > since the astronomical works of that period were fundamentally > incorrect as they were mostly based on Ptolemy?s Almagest! > In other words, the astronomical works of the West were hardly > better than the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati of India! > 19.Similarly, Albert Einstein is supposed to have believed in > astrology! Dr. B. V. Raman has not said so anywhere in his ?world > famous? book ?Notable Horoscopes? while discussing the horoscope of > Einstein! Similarly, there has been no such indication in any of > the astrological magazines which normally jump on such hearsays to > encash them! It maybe mentioned here that even in the ?Notable > Horoscopes? hardly any chart even of the 20th century is correct, > leave alone the charts of Bhagwan Krishna or Gautama the Budha or > Shankaracharya! There is also a difference of heaven and earth in > the planetary longitudes of the same work in a consolidated form > given at pages 426 to 431 and the main charts given in the chart > form! Even the chart of the erstwhile editor of the Astrological > Magazine viz. Dr. B. V. Raman himself given at page No. 401 is > incorrect! And he was supposed to be the ?greatest Vedic astrologer? > of the twentieth century but surprisingly, could not calculate > even his own horoscope properly! > Same is the case with the chart No. 74, which is actually the > chart of the spouse of Dr. B. V. Raman! The planetary longitudes on > that page do not at all tally with the ones given at page 470 in the > same book! > And the delineations of all such charts are correct! In other > words, ?Vedic astrology? can make correct predictions only from > incorrect data! > (BHARAT start) No comments since I have no clue about Sri B. V. Raman's sayings or activities. I am no one to judge him or others and nor can comment upon other people having interest in Jyotish. I do not know if he or someone else was the greatest Jyotishi. I do not think we have contests amongst Vedic Astrologers to check who is the greatest? Is there an Olympics for Vedic Astrologers? In your mind perhaps. I understand your modus operandi. Call one person as the greatest Astrologer and then criticize him. Thereby, criticizing and rubbishing everyone. Very neatly done, I must say, but, it only reflects your narrow mindedness. (BHARAT end) 20. We have demonstrated it practically through ?Mahesh? that it > is impossible for any astrological predictions to have been correct > in the past either based as they were on the data from the Surya > Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Brahma Sphuta Sidhanta or Sidhanta > Shiromani ----whether they were supposed to be so called nirayana or > so called sayana! But then may be that is the beauty of predictive > astrology -- whether ?Vedic? or ?not-so-Vedic? --- to make correct > predictions from incorrect data! > 21. Predictive astrology is supposed to be a ?science?! What a > preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were > based or are based these days are not correct, how can the results > be correct and how can we draw correct inferences when we have not > made correct observations at all! > (BHARAT start) Read Below: The Basics: Astrology in scientific terms Astrology relates itself to planets and to the two luminaries namely Sun and Moon. In modern science, we know, Sun is a star and is the prime mover and, therefore, secondary sources of energy depend upon its energy. Sun sends in its energy directly to the Earth and, also, as reflected energy from the Moon and other planets. This energy may be light, heat, magnetic, gravitational or any other that may be discovered by Scientists in the coming years. The fact of the matter is, the energy reaching Earth comes from the Sun and other planets both in direct and indirect ways. All events are energy driven. This statement comes from the scientific adage that every effect has a cause and that every happening has a force behind it. In other words, it is safe to understand that energy drives the events. If we were to understand the kind of energy that drives particular events then we have a formidable knowledge in our hands. This is exactly what the ancient Indians attempted. They divided the energy between planets and developed calculations to measure the contribution of energy from different planets. By studying the effects that the energy brings, repeatedly, the ancient Indians were able to correctly assess, what planetary energy meant for human life, natural habitat and our world in general. This gave them a tool to calculate the following: Energy received at a particular time at any place on Earth. The energy received from each planet The quantum of conflicting and self canceling energy. and likewise Now it became easier to correlate any happening in any individual's life to the planetary system. Astrology is a discovery of natural phenomenon much as discovery of gravity or magnetism is. Astrology & Astronomy The calculation of planetary longitudes and their motion is vital to their placement in astrological charts. Astrology takes the reference as Earth and it measures the movement of planets with reference to earth. Further, it divides the sky into 12 equal parts called signs and 27 equal parts known as constellations. This is to categorize the nature of various parts of our sky through distant stars and constellations. All of the above calculations are nothing but astronomy. It is only when we try to correlate the astronomy with its effects do we bring in additional observational data and call it Astrology. In other words, a rudimentary definition of Astrology, would be – a study of correlation of cosmic forces with life and natural phenomenon. Astrology isn't a set of beliefs and superstitions. It is observation, experimentation and categorization of cause and effects. Both in its study and its application, it resembles pure science. Why Astrology isn't always replicable? Many scientists have a simple query against the astrologers – If astrology is a science then its principles must be replicable? In Science, a discovery is made a natural law if the same phenomenon is replicable given the same conditions. Let us understand this with a small example of rain. Rain cannot happen without clouds. This is the law but this kind of suggests that whenever clouds are present rain occurs. We all know this isn't true. The correct replicable law is that for rain to happen not only the clouds have to be present, but, they have to be so full of moisture that they cannot hold it any longer. This is replicable but not always. Anywhere in the tropical world the clouds cannot hold moisture then it rains. In the Tundra regions, however, this law does not hold true. There instead of rain the moisture might fall as snow. So the law of rain is changed again to hold true for some regions. In Astrology, many astrologers are presently engaged in showing replicable results to the world. They are doing commendable work but here we would like to give reasons why astrology and its laws are not always replicable. Astrology measures the energy at any given point of an event and then discusses the likely events that are possible in the future in the space time continuum consequent to this event. Each event itself is a cause to a variety of possibilities. It is, therefore, possible to predict the variety of possibilities but very difficult to predict the exact future event. The events that one faces in life are called destiny. With each event or situation, an individual has a choice: To react to the situation in many different ways. To accept the situation and be proactive. To accept the situation and do nothing. Upon the choice of the individual the possibilities of the future events hang. As individual choices can be many the likelihood of the event happening in the future changes. This change in probability is born out of a simple understanding of science of human nature. The more the humans are non-reactive to their destiny the harder it will be to determine the happenings likely to occur in their future. This may represent only 1% of the total humanity yet it cannot be treated as an exception. Astrology therefore is, for the very scientific reasons it upholds, not replicable, always. End of Article (BHARAT end) - Hide quoted text - > 22. It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these > astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that all > the world has really gone mad! Let us see how: > I am a tiny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun > is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there > are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to > affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in my > horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand > upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Alpha Aquilae > which is known as Shravana in Sanskrit! And do you know its distance > from me? It is seventeen light years! And it is several times > larger than our sun! In other words, if that star wants to ?affect? > me individually, it will take it at least seventeen years to do so > even if that ?effect? travels at the speed of light! And by then, > my Rahu or Shani or whatever Dasha it may be must have been over! > Then how can such a star which is trillions of times larger than me > send its rays in a concentrated from just to haunt me at a > particular point of time! Can you imagine what type of laughing > stocks we are making of ourselves by believing in such hocus pocus! > Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Alpha Bootis > known as Swati in Sanskrit! It is away by 26 light years from me > and is again several times larger than our sun!! > It thus defies imagination as to how a scientist like Albert > Einstein could have made a statement like ?stars affect us?! I m > sure he could not have been cowed down by the special ?aura? or ? > halo? which these ?Jyotishis? are supposed to have since that is > only to befool simpletons like ignorant adivasis! > Secondly, by quoting Newton and Einstein, these ?Vedic Jyotishis? > are themselves proving that they have no common sense at all! If at > all these two scientists did claim to believe in astrology, they > would have believed in Western system since there was no ?Vedic > Jyotish? around those days! And these two systems are just > antitheses to one another ? they cannot be integrated at any point > of time since if my sayana moon is in Vrisha, my nirayana moon is in > Mesha and so on! Similarly, there are no Dasha bhuktis in the > Western system nor is there any Sade-Sati etc. Thus whatever > support they try to muster for their preposterous claims goes in > fact against the very grain of their own arguments! > (BHARAT start) If light from our Earth travels to another Nakshatra in 17 years and carries with it the information of the people here, and comes back from there back to Earth in 17 years. That means the past event of 34 years back affects us. This is wonderful. Can you list all the times, it can be an aid in our study? This can be a nice topic of research. (BHARAT end) - Hide quoted text - 23. It is being said that quite a few Western ?Vamadevas? and > other ?Rishis? have started believing in ?Vedic Jyotish?. We > must not forget that Westerners like their Eastern counter-parts are > interested in earning a few bucks the quickest way! Just by reading > a few books by Dr. B. V. Raman or K. N. Rao etc. etc. and the much > touted ?Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram? they can declare themselves > as qualified ?Vedic astrologers? It is immaterial if they cannot > pronounce even the words of shantipath like ?poornam adah poornam > idam? properly or correctly, leave alone understanding their > meaning, but then we have become so blind because of greed and > avarice that we just let them masquerade as ?Vamadevas? and ? > Parasharas?. This can happen only with Hindu religion, which we are > supposed to defend! Why don?t these ?Vamadevas? proclaim themselves > to be re-incarnations of Jesus Christ or St. Paul or St. John and so > on! We have already a glut of so many incarnations like Radha > and Dattatreya and so on and so forth that we hardly need imported > Vamadevas! Thus instead of preserving our cultural integrity, we are > appreciating the efforts of ?Vedic Jyotishi East India Company? to > help us disintegrate our own culture by propagating some non-sense > called ?Vedic Jyotish? in overseas countries as well as in India. > I do not know how many times I will have to repeat it that > predictive gimmicks are against the letter as well as spirit of the > Vedas, Puranas, Itihasas and Smritis and therefore, have to be > shunned at the earliest! And naturally, these imported ?Vamadevas? > are just jugglers who have no other motives but to make fools of us > and make us deviate from our cultural heritage, pretending as if > they are propagating it! > 24.I have yet to receive any response to my challenge to all these > jyotishis to quote even a single reference from any of our shastras > which has advised us to marry only after matching horoscopes! Leave > alone shastras, they cannot quote anything even from their own ? > Jyotisha bibles?. What type of experts are these ?Vamadevas? and ? > Parasharas? and ?Varahamihiras? if they cannot vindicate their > statements/stands even by a single shastric text? > Do you need any other proofs to understand that you are really being > made a fool by these jyotishis? > The last nail in the coffin of astrological gimmicks is the chart > for the new lunar year! It has been proved by me already quoting > all the relevant Vedas and shastras that the current lunar New Year > started on February 28, 2006, with the topocentric New Moon for > Delhi at exactly 5hrs 0mts IST. But then all the vernacular papers, > apart from astrological magazines, are making predictions for the > new year on the basis of a lunar New Year supposed to start from > March 30, 2006, with the chart for New Moon being prepared for 15hrs > 45 mts. IST on March 29, 2006. In fact that is the time of > Geocentric New Moon for an imaginary ?centre of the earth? whereas > the actual time of topocentric New Moon for Delhi on that date is > 17hrs 26 mts. IST! > You can see it for yourself that not only is the very date of the > New Year chart for a wrong date ? March 29 instead of February 28, > but even the timing of erecting that chart is based on a geocentric > New Moon instead of the New Moon with parallax corrections for > Delhi, which is known as topocentric phenomenon! > But then, as usual, these jyotishis will claim to have made correct > predictions for our ?matribhoomi? i.e. Bharatavarsha since, even at > the cost of repeating a statement for the umpteenth time, these > Vedic jyotishis can make correct predictions only from fundamentally > incorrect data! > In view of the above discussion, it is clear that predictive > gimmicks have no basis either as per the shastras or modern > sciences. It is immaterial whether these predictive techniques are > of Indian system ? euphemistically known as ?Vedic Jyotisha? or > Western system. On the other hand, the so called Vedic Jyotisha has > made us celebrate all our festivals on wrong days and the earlier we > shun it the better so that we can start using a seasonal year for > deciding our fasts, fairs, festivals and muhurtas. > When are you going to do that? > (BHARAT start) I am so sorry, I replied to your entire email! Do not expect me to do again, especially with your attitude. Try not to reply back with some more nonsensical stuff. I just replied for the sake my fellow friends and Vedic Astrologers. If your purpose is only to correct the Ayanamsha or to erase it, please talk to the relevant people. You can take it up with the government of India or someone else. You are free not to be an astrologer and especially not a Vedic one. I shall call Astrology Vedic, much to your dislike perhaps. Thanks and Regards Bharat - Hide quoted text - With kind regards, > Avtar Krishen Kaul > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Krishen <jyotirved wrote: > > > > --- In Vedic AstrologyForum <Vedic AstrologyForum%40>, > " Krishen " <a_krishen > wrote: > > Shri Vinay Jha ji, > > Jai Shri Ram! > > I am not even in the least surprised to see your answer to my post > especially the comments, " Hence, you must be AT LEAST a senior professor > to profess your views. OR, you must get some recognized university > teaching Jyotishan your side. I am Trustee and secretary of seven > Sanskrit colleges and other institutions, and I know the worth of a > degree of Shaastri " > > It just shows you are not interested in a smooth discussoin at all since > it means that anyone who is not a " senior professor " cannot discuss > anything! > > <Hence, Shaastri or Acharya or even PhD is worthless, you must be a > reputed PROFESSOR IN THIS FIELD to profess > your own views.> > The logo on you forum says, " Testing traditional methods of astrology is > one of our principal tasks. Comparison of modern astronomy with > traditional systems such as Suryasiddhanta for getting best outcomes for > the purposes of predictive astrology is one of out main goals. Debates > may be allowed, but only in a friendly manner and without personal > attacks. " > > You should have put a condition there that only " university professors " > can discuss things in this forum! > > < I tested your credentials and proficiency in this field while you were > wrongly computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha 10 months ago in AIA forum. > > > > I have left that forum about two years back! It is thus clear that you > have discussed that issue with somebody else! In any case, why can't > you post those mails again so that we could discuss as to what has gone > wrong and where in the Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsha shlokas. > > <Should I show how many ABUSIVE remarks have you posted for Vedic > Astrology and vedic asgtrologers in various fora ??> > > If anyone claims that he/she practises Vedic astrology, he/she must be > able to prove that there are Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas, and > there are mehtodologies of calculating planetary longitudes of Mangal, > Shani etc. vis-a-vis those very " Vedic rashis " in the Vedanga Jyotisha > etc. He/she must also be able to prove that the hundreds of Ayanamshas > being used are all Vedic, and so are the hundreds of Dasha-bhuktis etc. > He/she must be able to clearly establish the link between the Vedic > nakshatras like Krittika, Mrigashira etc. vis-a-vis Mesha, Vrisha etc. > rashis by quoting, with exact references and translating the Vedic > mantras that talk that way. Then he/she has also to link the vargas, > hundreds of them, to the Rashis as per the Vedic mantras. In short, if > someone wants to estblish that the predictive gimmicks he/she follows > are Vedic, he/she must give a clear proof that is beyond all the > reasonable doubts! > Since we do not find any Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas and > since there are no such " twelve equal division " as per modern astronomy > either, nor does any zodiac exist in reality---it is just an imaginary > " circle of animals " ---how do you expect sensible Hindus to belive that > predictive gimmicks followed by some jyotishis on the basis of > non-existent rashis and inanimate planets etc. are all creations of the > real Vamadeva and Vishvamitra and Atri and Shaunaka etc. Rishis? Do you > mean to say that we must believe blindly in the statements of some > jyotishis that our Vedic seers were not aware of the fact that the so > called rashichakra is a phantasmagoria, so are the Mesha, Vrisha etc. > animals supposed to be crawling on the same and the Mangal, Shani etc. > planets that are supposed to be governing your and my fate are nothing > but inanimate wandering bodies? Do you mean to say that the Vedic > seers did not have that much of knowledge either to sift grain from the > chaff and they also believed that non-existent Mesha, Vrisha etc. > animals are holding us in their thraldom? > > If something is non-existent as per modern astronomy, how and why do you > expect our Vedic Seers to have succumbed to the temptation of making > correct predictoins from those very non-existent " aninmals " of a > non-existent zodiac? Are you doing justice to the Vedic seers by > ascribing such ignorance to them? > > What type of a Vedic scholar, and a Professor, to boot, are you? > > < Sir, we can forget the past and discuss things afresh, provided > abusive language is avoided and opinions are based on hard facts and > evidences , which seems to be next to impossible as far as your past > behaviour suggests. > > > My dear Vinay Jha ji, the hard facts have been kept before you several > times! Why can't you just understand the anguish that I am feeling by > the sad fact that scholars like you are going all out to defend some > predictive gimmicks in the name of Vedic astrology, when there is not > even an iota of evidence in any of the Vedas or shastras that the Vedic > seers ever believed in having their future deciphered and that also > through non-existent rashi-animals, via inanimate wandering bodies, and > that also through esluive dasha-bhuktis and pratyantara and what not? > What is there to be discussed about such a " naked truth " that the Hindus > are being taken for a ride in the name of Vedic astrology? > > < I am really not interested in any discussion with you, because you are > really not interested in checking the proofs of accuracy of Vedic > Astrology. > > > You are really talking in circles! You want me to check the proofs of > accura y of " Vedic astrology " when in the very first place, you are > unable to establish that there are any predictive gimmicks in any of the > Vedas! > > <Siddhanta-shiromani quoted some lost version of Suryasiddhanta and used > Munjala's formula TOGETHER WITH this lost formula of Suryasiddhanta.> > > I wonder if you have read the Laghumanasa of Munjala yourself! Do you > know what he has advised about calculating the Ayanamsha and how it is > to be adjusted? Yes, the Sidhanta Shiromani has talked about Munjala's > ayanamsha and since you have not read Munjala in the first place, how > can you understand as to what Bhaskara-II wanted to say? > > Dear Vinay Jahaji, since you are a monk, you can do a lot of good to > Hindu society as a whole. And the maximum good you can do is by making > the common man aware that there are no predictive gimmicks in the Vedas, > and as such, there canot be any Vedic astrology! That way you can also > make the entire Hindu communituy celebrate all the festivals on correct > days, which are being celebrated on wrong days, just thanks o " Vedic > astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " > > Jai Shri Ram. > > A K Kaul > > --- In Vedic AstrologyForum <Vedic AstrologyForum%40>, > " VJha " vj.jyotish@ > wrote: > > > > Kaul Ji, > > > > The certificates you are citing are meaningless : you are challenging > an > > entire discipline which is being taught in all recognized Sanskrit > > universities. Hence, you must be AT LEAST a senior professor to > > profess your views. OR, you must get some recognized university > teaching > > Jyotishan your side. I am Trustee and secretary of seven Sanskrit > > colleges and other institutions, and I know the worth of a degree of > > Shaastri : it is being obtaind for less than a song in most of the > > colleges. I am unable to prevent malpractices even in colleges which > > have included me in board of trustees, although I am fighting against > > the corrupt system. Hence, Shaastri or Acharya or even PhD is > > worthless, you must be a reputed PROFESSOR IN THIS FIELD to profess > > your own views. > > > > I tested your credentials and proficiency in this field while you were > > wrongly computing Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha 10 months ago in AIA > > forum. I was also sorry for your blatant haughtiness towards RN > > Iyengar Ji, whom I do not know. Should I show how many ABUSIVE remarks > > have you posted for Vedic Astrology and vedic asgtrologers in various > > fora ?? > > > > Sir, we can forget the past and discuss things afresh, provided > abusive > > language is avoided and opinions are based on hard facts and evidences > , > > which seems to be next to impossible as far as your past behaviour > > suggests. Your supporter Prashant Pandey started an abusive attack on > me > > just because he did not like my answers to your attacks on Vedic > > Astrology. Abuses start when sound arguments end. > > > > I am really not interested in any discussion with you, because you are > > really not interested in checking the proofs of accuracy of Vedic > > Astrology. But if you meet me in any conference, we can discuss things > > in private or publicly. > > > > I am sorry for your utter disregard for factual evidences put forth by > > me concerning knowledge of modern concept of precession in ancient > > India, and the difference between precession and ayanamsha. It is a > very > > difficult topic because ancients did not write in strightforward > manner. > > Please re-read the verses of Siddhanta-shiromani and computations > based > > on it. Siddhanta-shiromani quoted some lost version of Suryasiddhanta > > and used Munjala's formula TOGETHER WITH this lost formula of > > Suryasiddhanta. If commentators neglected these verses, it is their > > fault, and not of ancients. Why you are so incapable of learning new > > things ?? Old age problem ?? I am not insulting you : you are > > insulting Truth by distorting facts. > > > > If you want real debate, Varanasi Vidvat Parishad can be requested to > > organize such a debate in which heads of departments of Jyotisha from > > Benaras Hindu University, Sampoornanand Sanskrit University, and other > > such universities may be invited. A better alternative is to wait for > a > > conference in which these scholars will be already present. > > > > Experts of this field avoid internet fora due to two reasons : they > are > > busy, and they are not deft in handling computers or internet. Hence, > > conference is the best method. I will like to meet you in any > > astrologicaql conference. On 20 Dec 2009, a conference is being held > at > > Patna, organized by scholars of Kashi and their friends in Patna, none > > of whom I have ever met. They have invited me as a special guest. If > > you attend this conference, I will be glad to discuss things with you. > > There are things which can be quickly shown face to face but need > > considerable time over internet. You do not know what you are doing by > > attacking the most scientific and most accurate branch of human > > knowledge : Vedic Jyotisha. I can show you ample proofs face to face. > I > > had invited Prashant Pandey at International Astrological Conference > at > > Allahabad (28 Feb-Mar 1, 2009), but he did not turn up. I have never > > organized any astro conference, hence I cannot send invitation letters > > on behalf of the organizers. > > > > -Vinay Jha > > ==================== ======= > > --- In Vedic AstrologyForum <Vedic AstrologyForum%40>, > " Krishen " a_krishen@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Shri Vinay Jha ji, > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > <If you want any real discussion, you must chose a proper forum : a > > > panel of university experts instead of an internet forum.> > > > It would really be a pleasure for me if you could co-opt a panel of > > > unversity experts in your own forum or some other forum so that the > > > issues could be discussed threadbare. > > > I hope you will appreciate that it is otherwise difficult to call > all > > > the experts in various fields at one place so that you could have a > > > debate with me! > > > < I have to subsist on juices and groundnuts for months due to > > workload> > > > I really appreciate your tapasya and hard work and have great > regards > > > for your tapasya and also scholarship. > > > <I have neither any time nor any willingness to discuss anything > with > > > you.> > > > You have created a forum named " vediastrololgyforum " , and anybody > can > > > post any relevant mail on the same. It is not necessary for anybody, > > > including the owner of the forum, to reply any of the mails. If you > > > have neither willingness nor time to discuss anything with me, fine. > > > You do not have to answer any of my mails. > > > < Can you have some mercy on me ?> > > > Being a monk, you are a venerable person for me. As such, pl do not > > > make such requests. > > > < I have no time for you, unless you chose a forum of experts or a > > court > > > of law.> > > > Regarding forum of expers, I have given you a suggestion already. > > > Regarding a court of law, I am not sure that that is a proper > " forum " > > > who can arbitrate on the discussion/debate regarding the subtle > > > astronomical points in the sidhantas etc. Besides, that is also a > > > highly time consuming process. > > > <I refuse to waste my time with persons like you : you may be a > great > > > person,> > > > I am a learner and a student and will remain so throughout my life. > > > < but you lack credentials and degrees from reputed universities in > > > these topics. > > > > This is really a surprsing statement from a scholar like you! I do > > not > > > know what you mean by " you lack credentials and degrees from reputed > > > universities " . I have cleared Shastri examinatioin in 1964 from J & > K > > > University! Of course, I do not wear that degree round my neck like > a > > > milstone by calling myself " Shastri A K Kaul " ! > > > I have cleared B.Sc. with maths in 1963. I have also cleared M.A. in > > > English. I have Honours in Hindi language i.e. Prabhakar! > > > I do not know what other degrees you would like me to have for > > enetering > > > into a discussion about the so called Vedic astrology! > > > <I do not want to ban or insult you, unless and until I am > compelled> > > > As far as I am concerned, I will never try to insult you since you > are > > a > > > monk, even if I do not agree with your views. > > > Whether or not you ban me, it is upto you, since I know it already > > that > > > most of the " Vedic asterologers " are cowards but being a monk, I do > > not > > > expect you to be one. > > > < With Regards!!!> > > > With best regards to you as a monk, > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Vedic AstrologyForum <Vedic AstrologyForum%40>, > " VJha " vj.jyotish@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri Kaul ji, > > > > > > > > If you want any real discussion, you must chose a proper forum : a > > > panel > > > > of university experts instead of an internet forum. > > > > > > > > I have to subsist on juices and groundnuts for months due to > > workload, > > > I > > > > have neither any time nor any willingness to discuss anything with > > > you. > > > > Can you have some mercy on me ? I have no time for you, unless you > > > chose > > > > a forum of experts or a court of law. > > > > > > > > I refuse to waste my time with persons like you : you may be a > great > > > > person, but you lack credentials and degrees from reputed > > universities > > > > in these topics. I do not want to ban or insult you, unless and > > until > > > I > > > > am compelled. Do you understand??? > > > > > > > > With Regards!!! > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ==================== === > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Vedic AstrologyForum <Vedic AstrologyForum%40>, > " jyotirved " a_krishen@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Shri Vinay Jha-ji, > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > <But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies that I am moderating his > > > messages > > > > in my > > > > > forum ; following is his message at > > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had posted some message to several forums including > > > > Vedic Astrologyforum > > > > > owned by you. Whereas it appeared on all the other forums, it > did > > > not > > > > > appear on your forum for several days. That gave me the reason > to > > > > feel that > > > > > you had started moderating my posts. Later I found that there > was > > > > some > > > > > problem with , since several times one and the same message > > > would > > > > > appear on all the other forums immediately but not on > > hinducalendar > > > > forum, > > > > > owned by me! Similarly, a post on astronomy_activities_2009 > > > > (un-moderated > > > > > forum) appeared after several days after it had appeared in > other > > > > forums > > > > > including —where posts are moderated!! > > > > > > > > > > It was a genuine misunderstanding and I am sorry if it has hurt > > your > > > > > feelings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about Vedic > > > > Astrology, > > > > > and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss anything with > > liars.> > > > > > > > > > > I think it is the other way round! There is no predictive > > astrology > > > > in the > > > > > Vedas since there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor > > Mangal, > > > > Shani > > > > > etc. planets there----not at least in the sense they are being > > used > > > by > > > > > " Vedic astrologers " ! As such, to call any predictive gimmicks > > > > as Vedic > > > > > astrology is repugnant to the letter and spirit of the Vedas! > > Those > > > > who > > > > > claim that " Vedic astrology " is either a science or a shastra > > > > sanctioned by > > > > > the Vedas will have to prove it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, he > must > > > > have > > > > > posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which had > banned > > > > > > > > > > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had > > invited > > > > Shri > > > > > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open > > discussion > > > > since > > > > > the posts to that forum are not moderated! However, he declined > to > > > do > > > > so > > > > > under one pretext or the other!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a fact that I reply every technical query if it appears in > > any > > > > forum > > > > > where I am a member. I was informed by several members that > quite > > a > > > > few > > > > > members of one or the other Vedic Astrology or indianastrology > etc. > > > > forums > > > > > were discussing my mails there, when actually I had been either > > > banned > > > > by > > > > > them or hounded out! In fact quite a few mails of mine were > being > > > > discussed > > > > > in this also before I joined it! As you are aware, > I > > > > have kept > > > > > hinducalendar forum an open forum so that the contents can be > read > > > by > > > > > anybody even if he/she is not a member of that forum. However, > > > > astrology > > > > > forums do not even have that type of an open mind! As such, I > > could > > > > not > > > > > read your posts on those forums, much less answer them. > > > > > > > > > > Why I call those jyotish forums cowards is because those forums > > > have > > > > about > > > > > fifteen thousand members all told! All the members are either > > > > top-notch > > > > > jyotisha-gurus or scholars extraordinary, besides being software > > > > experts, > > > > > in one or the other way and they claim to be making correct > > > > predictions as > > > > > well! > > > > > > > > > > With such a battery of " advocates " at their command, they > > > > could not answer > > > > > the points raised by me and as such, they decided to " kill the > > > > messenger " > > > > > instead of reading/answering the message! That is why I call > them > > > > cowards. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, take the moderator/owner of this > > > > " " about > > > > > which you had complained sometime back that your mails were > > blocked > > > > here > > > > > because they were about a particular member! MY experience with > > > this > > > > group > > > > > has been entirely different! If the moderator/owner feels that > > the > > > > > mail/post is not in good taste for a particular individual or > > > > jyotishis > > > > > collectively, all he has asked to do is to modify the > > language---but > > > > he has > > > > > not blocked any mail, in spite of being a jyotisha follower > > > himself! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails > should > > > not > > > > appear > > > > > in astrological forums.> > > > > > > > > > > If you point out such mails as are non-astrological that I have > > > posted > > > > in > > > > > your forum, I will certainly remove them myself. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding other jyotisha forums where posts are moderated, I > > think > > > we > > > > > should leave it to the moderators of those forums to decide as > to > > > what > > > > are > > > > > jyotisha or non-jyotisha messages! Personally, I have never > asked > > > any > > > > > moderator till date as to why he has not let my mail appear in > the > > > > forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < AKK has superficial knowledge of ancient astronomy and is > > > > deliberately > > > > > distorting things, e.g., his assertions about absence of > > ayanamsha > > > > and > > > > > precession before munjala.> > > > > > > > > > > There have been lengthy discussions in several forums including > > > > > Hinducalendar and hinducivilization etc. (I have d > from > > > the > > > > > latter) on the topic of ayanamsha in the sidhantas etc. prior to > > > > Munjala! > > > > > I have raised several points there which have not been answered > by > > > > anyone. > > > > > Some of these are: > > > > > > > > > > 1. The ayanamsha shlokas in the Surya Sidhanta are > > > > interpolations of > > > > > a much later date—post Munjala. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Those shlokas yield absolutely wrong results vis-à-vis > > > > precession! > > > > > > > > > > 3. Those shlokas yield absolutely contrary results to the > > > > ayanamsha > > > > > being followed these days by jyotishis! > > > > > > > > > > 4. Those very ayanamsha interpolated shlokas have been > > lifted > > > > and > > > > > interpolated as it is in Narada-Purana without any proper > > > > acknowledgement > > > > > thus making even Narada Purana suspect of having more > concoctions > > in > > > > the > > > > > name of Narada-Muni than there being anything original from > > > > Narada-muni, the > > > > > son of Brahma ji. > > > > > > > > > > 5. The Gita Press Hindi translator has interpreted those > > > > interpolated > > > > > interpolations in such a manner as to convey the feeling that > the > > > > Surya > > > > > Sidhanta (and by implication Narada Purana too) had suggested > > Lahiri > > > > > Ayanamsha! > > > > > > > > > > 6. Munjala had advised that the ayanamsha @ one arc-minute > > per > > > > year > > > > > from Shaka 444 must be added to the Surya Sidhanta longitudes so > > as > > > to > > > > make > > > > > them " drik-tulya " i.e., Sayana. > > > > > > > > > > 7. That practice was followed for several centuries > > throughout > > > > India, > > > > > but somehow Ganesha Daivajnya put the cart before the horse in > > > > sixteenth > > > > > century AD, and advised, through his Grahalaghava, to subtract > > > > ayanamsha @ > > > > > one arc-minute from Shaka 444 from the actual > > > > " drik-longitudes " (i.e. > > > > > Sayana)---quite contrary to what Munjala had advised. > > > > > > > > > > 8. There are about a dozen ayanamshas being followed as on > > > date! > > > > All > > > > > of them cannot be correct though all of them may be wrong! These > > > are > > > > > besides the Surya Sidhanta ayanamsha, which is much different > from > > > any > > > > > ayanamsha prevailing as on date! > > > > > > > > > > 9. Why is it taking " Vedic astrologers " thousands of > > > > years to decide > > > > > as to which Ayanamsha, if any, is correct? > > > > > > > > > > 10. There being so many ayanamshas floating around in itself > > > proves > > > > that > > > > > nobody knows when it started and why actually and whether it > > should > > > > continue > > > > > at all! > > > > > > > > > > 11. The net result of all these ayanamsha curses has been that > > we > > > > are > > > > > celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days, thanks > > to > > > > " Vedic > > > > > astrology " and " Vedic astrologers " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope all your points have been clarified. Since you are a monk > > and > > > a > > > > > seeker of Truth and nothing but Truth, pl. do ponder on all > these > > > > points > > > > > raised by me with an unbiased mind! If you have any contrarian > > > views, > > > > pl. > > > > > do put them forward and I will definitely correct my views if > they > > > are > > > > > proved wrong. > > > > > > > > > > In the end, as you know, satyameva jayate! > > > > > > > > > > Jai Shri Ram! > > > > > > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To All > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I decided 3-4 months ago to keep away from all controversies > and > > > > devote > > > > > > > > > > > my time to creative works only. For three months, I was away > > from > > > > > > > > > > > internet and from my town. But Mr. AK Kaul is spreading lies > > > that > > > > I am > > > > > > > > > > > moderating his messages in my forum ; following is his message > > at > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.scribd.com/jyotirved > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <<<Regarding my running away from discussions with Shri Jha, > he > > > must > > > > > > > > > > > have posted some mails in some Vedic-astrology forums which > had > > > > banned > > > > > > > > > > > me, cowards as these jhyotishis and their forums are! I had > > > invited > > > > Shri > > > > > > > > > > > Jha several times to join HinduCalendar forum for an open > > > discussion > > > > > > > > > > > since the posts to that forum re not moderated! However, he > > > declined > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > do so under one pretext or the other! > > > > > > > > > > > Now I have joined his forum viz. Vedic Astrologyforum of > > > ! > > > > But > > > > > > > > > > > there he is moderating my posts and allows only selective > posts > > to > > > > > > > > > > > appear! Thus instead of asking me questions, he is blocking my > > > views > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > his own forum! > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotishis are nothing but cowards, since they cannot face the > > > truth > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > the " Vedic astrology is actually a fraud on the Vedas " .>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never moderated or banned anyone in my forum. Besides, I was > > > away > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > my own forum for 3 months during which AKK posted his mails to > > my > > > > forum. > > > > > > > > > > > I did not like his mails, because non-astrological mails > should > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > appear in astrological forums. But I did not ban him. AKK or > > > anyone > > > > else > > > > > > > > > > > is a fully unmoderated member in my forum, one can ask > > > > managers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is deplorable that AKK has taken resort to blatant lies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the content in his mails, it is full of lies about > Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology, and I think it is a wastage of time to discuss > > anything > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > liars. I will post my explanations concerning the topics > raised > > by > > > > AKK > > > > > > > > > > > at proper places (in my forthcoming textbook on ancient Indian > > > > > > > > > > > astronomy, for instance). AKK has superficial knowledge of > > ancient > > > > > > > > > > > astronomy and is deliberately distorting things, eg, cf his > > > > assertions > > > > > > > > > > > about absence of ayanamsha and precession before munjala. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Vinay jha > > > > > > > > > > > ===================== === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Shri Vinay Jha ji, Jai Shri Ram! Thank you for your response. <Thus, instead of testing and refuting the predictions based on this or that method, you are rejecting me and my lifelong work without any trial or debate, and are also rejecting the entire tradition of Jyotisha. Jyotishis, therefore, are fully justified in rejecting you.> You are perhaps the only " modern Vedic astrologer " who is making correct predictions from the longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta! As you are aware, it does not agree with any other sidhanta nor does it tally at all with the planetary longitudes as per modern astronomy---whether sayana or nirayana! Still you claim to be making correct predictions from the same! Excepting you, all the other astronomers are using either Lahiri or Raman or even zero or some other ayanamsha and that also vis-a-vis modern astronomy! Almost all of them are satisfied with the results regarding making correct predictions. That is at least what they claim! It is obvious that either you are wrong in your assessments on the bases of the data from the Surya Sidhanta or all the remaining jyotishis are wrong! Nopth of you cannot be correct simultaneously, though both of you i.e. Surya sidhanta walllas and modern astronomy-walas can be wrong simultaneously! Ironically, all of you call yourselves Vedic astrologers! It is thus an impossible task to decide as to who is really a Vedic astrologer amongst you, if at all there is any! As such, I do not understand as to what you mean when you say, “..are also rejecting the entire tradition of jyotisha”? If your tradition which is supposed to be based on the Surya Sidhanta is correct and that is the real tradition, it is not being rejected by me but by the entire community of “Vedic astrologers”----billions and billions of them---are rejecting it! And if their Lahiri or Ramana etc. Rashichakras are correct, you are rejecting theirr tradition, obviously! You cannot have the cake and eat it as well. Regarding my trying your method, I have told you several times that I had downloaded Kundalee software from your website but it does not work either on WINXP or WINME---least of all VISTA. It always says, “phalit.exe file is corrupt” or some other file is corrupt. Such a problem I am facing only with your software, whereas JHORA and other software are working very fine on my system! I downloaded the latest version of Kundalee software also but that too has a similar problem! You must be aware that whether it is JHORA or Astrodienst or Future Point or Parashara’s Light or any other software, none has the calculations of the Surya Sidhanta! Yours is the only one, but that does not work at all! Still you want that I should give a trial to your software! < Your above statement portrays me as an obscurantist and anachronistic fool. You project yourself as a man of scientific temperament. ……Those who have read my biodata know that I have scientific works recognized by world's recognized universities, and I excelled in science in my student days as well.> Your imagination is running riot! You are presuming things like an “obscurantist and anachronistic fool” etc. which were never intended by me. You are unnecessarily entering into a personal slanging match! Regarding your works being recognized by world’s universities, to the best of my knowledge, the Surya Sidhanta is not recognized by any university except for BHU etc. And those universities have “recognized” the current version of that work, which in itself is quite wrong according to you! That itself means that the BHU etc. have recognized a wrong work! < But whom are you trying to cheat by making such statements ? ………All your work consists of abuses against Vedic Jyotisha.> In fact, by claiming that correct predictions can be made only as per the longitudes etc. from the Surya Sidhanta software that you have prepared, it is you who is claiming to be the only “real Vedic astrologer” as against all the others who are thus fake according to you, since they are using any and every program except the one based on the Surya Sidhanhta! However, unless and until you, of any other “Vedic astrologer”, for that matter, are able to prove that the Vedas talk of nothing but Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis, which are scientifically non-existent, and also ascribe lordships of imaginary “animals of that imaginary zodiac” to inanimate wandering bodies like Mangal, Shani etc., you do not have any right to call predictive gimmicks as “Vedic astrology”! Similarly, unless and until you also prove that the Vedas also talk of elusive Dasha-bhuktis and pratyantaras---hundreds of them like Vimsxhotari, Ashtotari, Yogini, Kalachakra etc. etc.--- and Kemadruma and hundreds of other Greek yogas etc., besides of course, such terms as Panaphara, Apoklima, Kendra etc. etc. you cannot call those predictive gimmicks as “Vedic astrology”! Same is the case about “other Vedic astrologers”---the only difference being that except for Surya sidhanta longitudes, everything else remain the same in their case i.e. they also call predictive gimmicks based on non-existent Mesha etc. rashis etc. etc. Vedic astrology! It is as such, “Vedic astrologers” who are cheating the public, and not me, since all I am asking the “Vedic astrologers” to do is to substantiate their claims, which they are unable to do! Do you, as such, realize at to what an injustice you are doing to the Vedas and the Vedic seers when you try to thrust down our throat the “proclamation” that we must believe in your words that the real Vamadeva and Vishwamitra etc. Rishis believed in the non-sense called Kalasarpa yoga and also patri melapak etc. etc. Is this what you are teaching the Hindus as a monk? <I have already posted enough evidences in favour of veracity of Jyotisha…… … because you do not want to see proofs of Vedic Jyotisha, which lies in its predictive power..> No! You have not. You have yet to quote even a single mantra from the Vedas that talks of Mesha, Vrisha, Mithuna etc. rashis in that sequence and advises that we must wager bets on the basis of those very non-existent “twelve animals “ of the “circle of animals”. You have yet to quote even a single mantra or shloka from any Veda or Purana that has advised us to contact some soothsayer for ascertaining as to what amount we will gain or lose in stock-market by investing in which share! You have yet to give any references to any mantras where the Vedic seers married only after patri-melapak. So, how do you claim that you have already “posted evidence”? My dear Vinay Jha ji! Let me tell you something frankly. If at all you are able to forecast something uncannily accurately, it may not be because of the Surya Sidhanta being a real gem of an astronomical or astrological work, but only because you are a monk and you have some divine powers. My grandpa used to make astoundingly correct predictions from horoscopes prepared from Grahalaghava panchangas. And as you know, Grahalghava is as accurate or inaccurate as the Surya Sidhanta is---that is both of them are highly inaccurate.! <.Veda and Jyotisha cannot be mastered by mere reading. It is spiritual knowledge, gathered by mean of tapasya and through guru.> Yes, you are right! Predictive gimmicks are not Vedic astrology and as such, do not need any guru at all, since a real guru does not teach something that is against the shastras. As you are aware, all the shastras are against fatalism whereas horoscope reading is nothing but fatalism! About tapasya, there is a saying, “Tapasa prapyete rajyam, rajyat naraka eva chai” As you are a Sanskrit scholar, you must be knowing its meaning also, but let me explain it for those who do not understand Sanskrit. The meaning is, “One gets kingship through tapasya and then Hell through kingship”! Anybody making successful predictions by dint of tapasya is bartering real diamonds with glittering pieces of glass! It is not necessarily for pecuniary gains but may be just the satisfaction of ego that Mr. xxxx has “vak-sidhi” and is making correct predictions! May be that Mr.x is not himself aware of that barter! It is kaliyuga, as you know, and Kaliyuga does not tolerate anyone performing real tapasya! < You never abuse Christian or Islamic astrology. It is not difficult to discover your real religion which you hid beneath a superficial lip-service to Vedas.> I have explained it several times in several forums that I am neither a cop nor a social reformist! There are physiognomists and palmists and numerologists and so on. I do not toiuch them with a barge pole. There are also innumerable types of cheats and thugs in India, but they do not impinge either directly or indirectly on the format/gamut of Vedic/Pauranic calendar. It is only “Vedic astrology” that compels us to celebrate all the festivals and muhurtas on wrong days because it is “Vedic astrologers” who preside over all the conferences of Panchanga standardization—and we are always back to square one i.e. go on celebrating “almighty” Lahiri festivals instead of the real Vedic festivals! And somebody has to take up cudgels against that injustice! Being a very unpleasant and thankless task, nobody wants to annoy the powerful lobby of “Vedic astrologers”. But that does not mean that the ones not raising their voices against such tyranny are not cowards! It is common knowledge by now that there are no Mesha etc. rashis in the Vedas. As such, to talk of any Makara or Kmbha snakrnati ---whether so called Sayana or so called nirayana---etc. being Vedic is taking the Hindu society for a ride. There is thus no question of Vedic calendar being either so called sayana or so called nirayana—since that term is applicable only to Mesha etc. rashis! When we come to the Puranas and sidhantas, we find that they talk of nothing but a so called sayana rashichakra. I am posting separately a document BVB6.doc on your forum. Kindly do take some time out and go through the same. You will see that all the Puranas and sidhantas are talking of nothing but a so called Sayana Rashichakra for all our festivals and muhurtas. It therefore means that we are celebrating our festivals neither as per the Vedas nor as per Puranas not even modern astronomy, so much so that not even Primary School level geography, which talks of Winter Solstice (Uttarayana) and Summer Solstice (Dakshinayana) and the two equinoxes (Vasanta sampat and hemanta sampat). It is all because of “Vedic astrology” and “Vedic astrologers”. Since you are a monk and a scholar, I beseech you in all earnest to set an example by celebrating all the festivals on correct days. You will have to eliminate Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashish from your vocabulary for this purpose. And I am sure after pondering on all the facts kept before you, you will definitely do that! The earlier you do so the better for the entire Hindu community. Shubhasya sheegram. Satyam eva jayate, nanritam. Jai Shri Ram. A K Kaul ======================================= --- In Vedic AstrologyForum , " VJha " <vj.jyotish wrote: > Fwd: Re: Abusers of Astrology : AK Kaul & c Mr Kaul, Your following remark is sufficient for a ban on you in all astrological fora, including this one : " (Vinay Jha) who even in the twenty-first century makes correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the most inaccurate astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a conference sort it out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions from the same? " Thus, instead of testing and refuting the predictions based on this or that method, you are rejecting me and my lifelong or work without any trial or debate, and are also rejecting the entire tradition of Jyotisha. Jyotishis, therefore, are fully justified in rejecting you. Your above statement portrays me as an obscurantist and anachronistist fool. You project yourself as a man of scientific temperament. But whom are you trying to cheat by making such statements ? Those who have read by biodate know that I have scientific works recognized by world's recognized universities, and I excelled in science in my studen days as well. You have shown no proof of your contribution to any field of human knowledge. All your work consists of abuses against Vedic Jyotisha. Yet I am not banning you now. Shaastraarthas were always held in conferences, but you want your own opinions. Keep them, because you do not want to see proofs of Vedic Jyotisha, which lies in its predictive power. Your refusal to see proofs ends our dialogue here. Henceforth, if you flood this forum with too much of your anti-astrological nonsense, you will be instantly banned. I have already posted enough evidences in favour of veracity of Jyotisha, but you never discuss pros and cons of such things. You never abuse Christian or Islamic astrology. It is not difficult to discover your real religion which you hide beneath a superficial lip-service to Vedas. Veda and Jyotisha cannot be mastered by mere reading. It is spiritual knowledge, gathered by means of tapasya and through guru. A dishonest soul is unfit for such things. -VJ ==================== ==== Vedic AstrologyForum , " Krishen " <a_krishen wrote: > > HinduCalendar , " Krishen " jyotirved@ wrote: > > Shri A. Sharma ji, > Jai Shri Ram! > > One does not do shastrartha in a conference! > Besides, any conference by jyotishis is usually of jyotishis and for jyotishis! I have had bitter experiences of attending such conferences of jyotishis, since the points of discussion there are not astronomy or calendar reform, but honing the tools of prediction and blowing their own trumpets as to who made how many correct predictions on the basis of what ayanamsha or dasha-bhukti! > Secondly, I do not have anything to sort out with Shri Vinay Jha personally because we have no personal grievances against one another. He is a well read scholar who interprets things his own way and who even in the twenty-first century makes correct predictions from the Surya Sidhanta based software. That sidhanta is the most inaccurate astronomical work as per modern astronomy! How can a conference sort it out as to how Shri Jha is making correct predictions from the same? > It is as such, much better that experts of different disciplines join the internet forums to sift grain from the chaf. As far as I can understand personally, all the real astronomers are already aware of the mess known as Vedic astrology and how it has derailed the Vedic calendar. This you can judge from various astronomical forums. They, however, do not want to take up cudgels against the same, for reasons not difficult to discern! > Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. > Jai Shri Ram > A K Kaul > > > HinduCalendar , A Sharma <asharmanz@> wrote: > > > > AKKji, > > > > CC: Vinay Jhaji. > > > > AKKji, Vinay Jhaji has invited you to the 20 Dec 2009conference in Patna. > > > > Please attend and sort out whatever can be sorted out between Vinay Jhaji and yourself. > > > > ASharma. > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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