Vedic Origins of Zodiac by Dr. David Frawley

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

Jai Shri Ram!

<Here is an

interesting read.

http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/1090/1/Vedic-Origins-of-the-Zodiac/Page1.html>

Regarding

" Vedic astrology " being really Vedic, here is an excerpt from #24922

dt. Oct 21, 09 (with some  changes) on itself:

Jai Shri Ram

A K Kaul

********************************************************************************************************

Excerpt from #24922

(edited and revised)

If anyone

claims that he/she practices Vedic astrology, he/she must be able to prove that

there are Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in a sequential manner in the Vedas,

and there are methodologies of calculating  longitudes of Mangal, Shani etc. planets

vis-a-vis those very " Vedic rashis " in the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.

Vedic astronomical works. 

He/she must

also be able to prove that the hundreds of Ayanamshas being used for predictive

gimmicks are all Vedic, and so are the hundreds of Dasha-bhuktis etc. He/she

must be able to clearly establish the link between the Vedic nakshatras like

Krittika, Mrigashira etc. vis-a-vis the so called Sayana or Lahiri or Ramana or

even Muladhara etc. Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis by quoting, with exact references

and translating the Vedic mantras that talk that way. Then he/she has also to

link the vargas, hundreds of them, to the Rashis as per the Vedic mantras. In

short, if someone wants to establish that the predictive gimmicks he/she

follows are Vedic, he/she must give a clear proof that is beyond all the reasonable

doubts!

Above all, he

must be able to prove that the Vedic seers also believed in the hocus pocus

known as kalasarpa-dosha or sade-sati etc. and did not marry without getting

their horoscopes matched! 

He/she must

also be able to quote unambiguously the mantras which have advised a “client”

to consult soothsayers before embarking on anything!

Since we do not

find even the basic  ingredients of “Vedic astrology” viz. Mesha,

Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas---at least not in the  astrological sense of

twelve equal divisions at all-----and since there are no such " twelve

equal division " as per modern astronomy i.e. scientifically either, nor

does any zodiac exist in reality---it is just an imaginary " circle of

animals " ---how can anybody expect sensible Hindus to believe that predictive

gimmicks followed by some jyotishis on the basis of non-existent rashis and

inanimate planets etc. are all creations of the real Vamadeva and Vishvamitra

and Atri and Shaunaka etc. Rishis?

Do these “Vedic

astrologers” want us to believe blindly their  statements that our Vedic

seers were not aware of the fact (i) that the so called rashichakra is a

phantasmagoria,  (ii) so are the Mesha, Vrisha etc. “equal” animals

that are supposed to be crawling on the same (iii)  and the Mangal, Shani etc. planets

that are supposed to be governing your and my fate are nothing but inanimate

wandering bodies?

Do these “Vedic

astrologers”  mean to say that the Vedic seers did not have that much of

knowledge or even common sense either to sift grain from the chaff and they

also believed that non-existent Rams ((Mesha)   and Bulls (Vrisha) etc. animals

are holding us in their thralldom?

 

If something is non-existent as per modern astronomy/science/in reality, how

and why do these “Vedic astrologers” expect that the  Vedic Seers  succumbed

to the temptation of making correct predictions from those very non-existent

" animals " of a non-existent zodiac through a “fantastic”

ownership by inanimate wandering bodies like Mars and Satrun and non-existent

mathematical points like Rahu and Kethu? Are these “Vedic astrologers”

doing justice to the Vedic seers by ascribing such ignorance and fear-psychosis

to them?  No,  They are actually cocking a snooker at our gullibility and

making us a laughing stock in the eyes of the whole world, all in the name of “Vedic

astrology”.

And as by now

everybody knows, it is because of this very “Vedic astrology” that

we are being compelled to forget Udagayana (Solstices) and Sampat (Equinoxes) etc.

geographical phenomena and Vedic months Madhu, Madhava etc. and “chant

the mantra of Lahiri/Ramana/Muladhara etc.” Makar Sankrantis and so on!

How long will

we continue to be taken for a ride?

While talking

of Vedic festivals, the twelve spokes etc. in the Vedas are actually twelve

months named Madhu, Madhava and not Mina, Mesha etc. Rashis.  360 is the number

of average days in a year: (i) solar year = 365.25 days (appxmt.) (ii) synodic  lunar

year (twelve synodic months) = 12 multiplied by29.5306 =354.3672.  II+III =

719.6172.  Average of the two =359.8086 (approximately 360 days).  There are

references to 720 also simultaneously with the figures of 360 in the Vedic

mantras which means it was 360 days plus 360 nights and so on. 

Regarding the 

date of the Vedanga Jyotisha, it was certainly at least around 1400 BCE,

whatever authors like David Pingree may say.  This I am going to prove scientifically

in a separate post.  The Vedanga Jyotisha gives the duration of a solar year as

366!

Not surprisingly,

even the Vedanga Jyotisha, the earliest indigenous Vedic astronomical work,

does not talk of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis but only Madhu, Madhava etc. months,

nor does it talk of Mangal, Shani etc. Planets.  It thus  proves conclusively

that at the time of the VJ either, there were no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in

Indian terminology nor were there any Mangal, Shani etc. planets. which means

that leave alone 3000 BCE, even in 1400 BCE, we did not believe in the

predictive hocus-pocus, whatever our “Vedic astrologers” may say.  We

must bear in mind that horoscopes are not prepared from “parokshya

knowledge” but astronomical works like the Surya Sidhanta etc.  And prior

to the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, we do not have any astronomical work

that tells us how to calculate the planets vis-à-vis rashis!  For that matter,

we do not have any astronomical work prior to the same SS, that even tells us

as to how to calculate the positions of planets vis-à-vis Krittika etc.

nakshatras!  Thus the works like Atharva-Veda-Parishsitha and even

Atharva-Jyotisha etc. create more doubts than solutions about predictive

gimmicks being practiced in India prior to about fifth/sixth century BCE. The

Vedanga Jyotisha gives the duratiopnof a solar y er as 366!

Jai Shri Ram!

A  K  Kaul

 

--- In

, Bharat - Hindu Astrology

<astrologyhindu wrote:

>

> Namaskaar

>

> Here is an interesting read.

> http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/1090/1/Vedic-Origins-of-the-Zodiac/Page1.html

>

> This may be a relevant article in light of the discussions held lately.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

<Here is an interesting read.

http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/1090/1/Vedic-Origins-of-the-Zodiac/Page1

..html>

 

Regarding " Vedic astrology " being really Vedic, here is an excerpt from

#24922 dt. Oct 21, 09 (with some changes) on itself:

 

Jai Shri Ram

 

A K Kaul

 

****************************************************************************

****************************

 

Excerpt from #24922 (edited and revised)

 

If anyone claims that he/she practices Vedic astrology, he/she must be able

to prove that there are Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in a sequential manner in

the Vedas, and there are methodologies of calculating longitudes of Mangal,

Shani etc. planets vis-a-vis those very " Vedic rashis " in the Vedanga

Jyotisha etc. Vedic astronomical works.

 

He/she must also be able to prove that the hundreds of Ayanamshas being used

for predictive gimmicks are all Vedic, and so are the hundreds of

Dasha-bhuktis etc. He/she must be able to clearly establish the link between

the Vedic nakshatras like Krittika, Mrigashira etc. vis-a-vis the so called

Sayana or Lahiri or Ramana or even Muladhara etc. Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis

by quoting, with exact references and translating the Vedic mantras that

talk that way. Then he/she has also to link the vargas, hundreds of them, to

the Rashis as per the Vedic mantras. In short, if someone wants to establish

that the predictive gimmicks he/she follows are Vedic, he/she must give a

clear proof that is beyond all the reasonable doubts!

 

Above all, he must be able to prove that the Vedic seers also believed in

the hocus pocus known as kalasarpa-dosha or sade-sati etc. and did not marry

without getting their horoscopes matched!

 

He/she must also be able to quote unambiguously the mantras which have

advised a “client” to consult soothsayers before embarking on anything!

 

Since we do not find even the basic ingredients of “Vedic astrology” viz.

Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis in the Vedas---at least not in the astrological

sense of twelve equal divisions at all-----and since there are no such

" twelve equal division " as per modern astronomy i.e. scientifically either,

nor does any zodiac exist in reality---it is just an imaginary " circle of

animals " ---how can anybody expect sensible Hindus to believe that predictive

gimmicks followed by some jyotishis on the basis of non-existent rashis and

inanimate planets etc. are all creations of the real Vamadeva and

Vishvamitra and Atri and Shaunaka etc. Rishis?

 

Do these “Vedic astrologers” want us to believe blindly their statements

that our Vedic seers were not aware of the fact (i) that the so called

rashichakra is a phantasmagoria, (ii) so are the Mesha, Vrisha etc. “equal”

animals that are supposed to be crawling on the same (iii) and the Mangal,

Shani etc. planets that are supposed to be governing your and my fate are

nothing but inanimate wandering bodies?

 

Do these “Vedic astrologers” mean to say that the Vedic seers did not have

that much of knowledge or even common sense either to sift grain from the

chaff and they also believed that non-existent Rams ((Mesha) and Bulls

(Vrisha) etc. animals are holding us in their thralldom?

 

If something is non-existent as per modern astronomy/science/in reality, how

and why do these “Vedic astrologers” expect that the Vedic Seers succumbed

to the temptation of making correct predictions from those very non-existent

" animals " of a non-existent zodiac through a “fantastic” ownership by

inanimate wandering bodies like Mars and Satrun and non-existent

mathematical points like Rahu and Kethu? Are these “Vedic astrologers” doing

justice to the Vedic seers by ascribing such ignorance and fear-psychosis to

them? No, They are actually cocking a snooker at our gullibility and

making us a laughing stock in the eyes of the whole world, all in the name

of “Vedic astrology”.

 

And as by now everybody knows, it is because of this very “Vedic astrology”

that we are being compelled to forget Udagayana (Solstices) and Sampat

(Equinoxes) etc. geographical phenomena and Vedic months Madhu, Madhava etc.

and “chant the mantra of Lahiri/Ramana/Muladhara etc.” Makar Sankrantis and

so on!

 

How long will we continue to be taken for a ride?

 

While talking of Vedic festivals, the twelve spokes etc. in the Vedas are

actually twelve months named Madhu, Madhava and not Mina, Mesha etc. Rashis.

360 is the number of average days in a year: (i) solar year = 365.25 days

(appxmt.) (ii) synodic lunar year (twelve synodic months) = 12 multiplied

by29.5306 =354.3672. II+III = 719.6172. Average of the two =359.8086

(approximately 360 days). There are references to 720 also simultaneously

with the figures of 360 in the Vedic mantras which means it was 360 days

plus 360 nights and so on.

 

Regarding the date of the Vedanga Jyotisha, it was certainly at least

around 1400 BCE, whatever authors like David Pingree may say. This I am

going to prove scientifically in a separate post. The Vedanga Jyotisha

gives the duration of a solar year as 366!

 

Not surprisingly, even the Vedanga Jyotisha, the earliest indigenous Vedic

astronomical work, does not talk of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis but only

Madhu, Madhava etc. months, nor does it talk of Mangal, Shani etc. Planets.

It thus proves conclusively that at the time of the VJ either, there were

no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in Indian terminology nor were there any

Mangal, Shani etc. planets. which means that leave alone 3000 BCE, even in

1400 BCE, we did not believe in the predictive hocus-pocus, whatever our

“Vedic astrologers” may say. We must bear in mind that horoscopes are not

prepared from “parokshya knowledge” but astronomical works like the Surya

Sidhanta etc. And prior to the Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha, we do

not have any astronomical work that tells us how to calculate the planets

vis-à-vis rashis! For that matter, we do not have any astronomical work

prior to the same SS, that even tells us as to how to calculate the

positions of planets vis-à-vis Krittika etc. nakshatras! Thus the works

like Atharva-Veda-Parishsitha and even Atharva-Jyotisha etc. create more

doubts than solutions about predictive gimmicks being practiced in India

prior to about fifth/sixth century BCE. The Vedanga Jyotisha gives the

duratiopnof a solar y er as 366!

 

Jai Shri Ram!

 

A K Kaul

 

 

 

, Bharat - Hindu Astrology

<astrologyhindu wrote:

>

> Namaskaar

>

> Here is an interesting read.

>

http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/1090/1/Vedic-Origins-of-the-Zodiac/Page1

..html

>

> This may be a relevant article in light of the discussions held lately.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat