Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Dear friends, Jai Shri Ram! <I already told that the editor has expressed that the verse may be spurious as he thought that the Indians learnt about rashi from the Greeks> In other words, Shri Bhattacharya had advised Shri Mehrotra to buy INSA edition of the VJ, that was supposed to contain the spurious mantra as a genuine mantra, without having read/seen it himself! After I uploaded it on several forums, now he says “the editor has expressed that the verse may be spurious”. We must not forget that the original commentator/translator viz. Shri T. S. Kuppanna Sastry of the INSA edition of VJ was an Hony. Professor at Sanskrit College, Madras, and this is what he had said on page 452 of his “Collected Papers on Jyotisha” published by Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth, Tirupati, in 1989, “In the works of this period (Circa 100 BC to Circa 300 AD) the influence of Greek culture on Hindu astronomy and astrology is visible for the first time. The names of weekdays like Ravi-vasara, Indu-vasara etc. and the names of the 12 solar signs composing the zodiac like Mesha, Rishabha etc. occur for the first time now. These originated in Babylonia and reached India via the Greeks” On page 50 of the Vedanga Jyotisha, INSA edition, he has said about the spurious Rashi mantra the same thing categorically,” This verse (rashi mantra in the VJ) is patently an interpolation. Firstly, it is un-numbered and found only in the Yajusa recension. Secondly, the word rashi itself, meaning the division of the zodiac of 30° each, named Mesa (Aries), Rsabha (Taurus) to Mina (Pisces), is of foreign origin and came into India only during the first centuries AD along with Greek astrology. Up to and including the time of the early astronomical samhitas of the last centuries BC, the only zodiacal division known in India were the nakshatra divisions. Rashi as used in the VJ means only group. For example, parva-rashi, meaning the group of fortnights and bha-rashi, meaning the group of nakshatra segments”. Similarly, Dr. K. V. Sarma, the editor of INSA edition of the VJ was a Professor at the Adyar Library Research Centre, and a scholar of repute. He has thus confirmed the same thing in the VJ that there were no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis before first century BC in India. OBVIOIUSLY, RASHI MANTRA IN THE VJ IS NOTING BUT SPURIOUS! Regarding Yogavasishtha, I have already the five volume set of Chaukhamba with Hindi translation. Thanks for the confirmation that Shri Bhattacharjya had confused Chaukhamba with Gita Press! <If Shri Kaul is unable to interpret the verses of the Balakanda I would advise him to read the recent mails sent by me and Shri Gopal Krishna Goelj on the subject and if he still cannot understand > It is really a surprising statement. I have quoted the Gitra Press translation of the relevant shlokas that state that Bhagwan Ram was destined to rule for eleven thousand years and He did actually rule for eleven thousand years as per the Uttarakanda. So how could He have Incarnated in 7000 BCE, just because some jyotishsis want Him to have done so! As such, the horoscopes of Bhagwan Ram floating around too are SPURIOUS AND NOTHING BUT SPURIOUS! <Shri Kaul thinks the Suryasiddhanta to be a work of the first century BCE/CE, without having any proof. Let him live in his own imaginary world if he likes to.> Panchasidhantika is compilation of five sidhantas compiled by Varahamihira in about 500 AD. Out of the five sidhantas, Surya Sidhanta is the only work that gives the methodology of calculating planets vis-a-vis Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and even Ashvini, Bharni etc. nakshatras. Varahamihira says that out of all the sidhantas available as on that date, the SS was " the most accurate " . That in itself proves that there was absolutely no other sidhanta of planetary longitudes in vogue then. Thus the Surya Sidhanta is the only so called indigenous sidhanta talking of planetary longitudes, and it could not be of a much earlier era than about 100 BCE/AD, naturally. This has been clarified by Shri T. S. Kupanna Sastry and also Dr. K. V. Sarma, as quoted above. Several other scientists and scholars like Dr. Meghnad Saha, Shri S. B. Dikshit etc. also are of a similar view that Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis were impoted from Greece much after the invasion by Alexander. Thus the Surya Sidhanta is a work of post Alexander’s invasion. What is all the more surprising is that the Surya Sidhanta was obtained by " Mahasura Maya " directly from " Surya Bhagwan " , whom Shri Bhattacharjya presumes to be the son of Vivasvat manu. Maya has not referred to any Purvacharyas having propounded any such shastra. That itself proves that the SS is the " most ancient work " of planetary astronomy in India---and that " ancient date cannot be prior to 100 BCE/AD in any case, as we have had Greek invasions only around 300 BCE, and the SS was " revealed " only after that invasion. <Shri Kaul thinks the Suryasiddhanta to be a work of the first century BCE/CE, without having any proof. Let him live in his own imaginary world if he likes to. If however he wants the Siddhantic yuga calculations he should approach Shri Vinay Jha or such a scholar, who has the confidence that he is fully familiar with the important Siddhantic texts.> The proofs that the Surya Sidhanta is a work of post first century BCE have been given above. However, it is really surprising that on the one hand Shri Bhattacharjya starts the discussion about the date and author of the Surya Sidhanta himself and then wants that I should ask someone else about it! Regarding the yuga durations of puranas, why can't he tell the forum members as to whether those durations are the same as that of the Surya Sidhanta or they are different from them and whether he believes in those durations or not. <He goes on ridiculing Mayasura that he had learnt Jyotish from Surya Bhagawaan, without citing any verse. I remember to have read the name of Vivasvat and not of Surya Bhagawwan in that context. Let Shri Kaul remain in his imaginary world if he likes to.> It appears Shri Bhattacharjya’s memory very often suffers from some bouts of amnesia like (i) he had asked Shri Mehrotra to buy INSA edition of VJ to verify for himself that the rashi mantra in the VJ was not spurious as he had depended on his memory that he had seen such a mantra without having seen it actually. (ii) His memory gave him the wrong information that he had purchased the Gita Press edition of Yogavasishtha in five volumes, when he had bought the Chaukhamba edition actually! (iii) And now he claims that his memory tells him that Vivasvat of the Surya Sidhanta is some one else than Surya Bhagwan. I have no comments, as such for his “remembering to have read the name of Vivasvat and not of Surya Bhagwan in that context”. Jai Shri Ram. A K Kaul HinduCalendar , " Krishen " <jyotirved wrote: > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote: > > Dear friends, > > 1) > The Internet link for the INSA book was given in the mail sometime back by Shri Kaul himself. Then why can't he read it himself to see the rashi verse it. I already told that the editor has expressed that the verse may be spurious as he thought that the Indians learnt about rashi from the Greeks. Just because the editor imagines that the verse could be spurious does not make the verse spurious. Only an imbecile would agree with such imaginations without substantiation. I also told that the editor had told that the verse is there for its usefulness. > > 2) > I bought the five volumes of the Yoga Vasishtha Maharamayana by paying one thousand rupees plus postage from Chowkhamba twelve years ago. Sorry I wrote it as from the Gita press, by mistake. If Shri Kaul wants to buy it he can contact Chowkhamba and they have an office in Delhi but the price might have gone up by now. The book is in Sanskrit-Hindi .I bought the two-volume Bhagavat puran of the Gita press. > > 3) > If Shri Kaul is unable to interpret the verses of the Balakanda I would advise him to read the recent mails sent by me and Shri Gopal Krishna Goelj ion the subject and if he still cannot understand the verses it is his misfortune. It seems he is confused by the different dates of Lord Rama as suggested by different people. It is upto him to decide whether he trusts anybody's opinion or not or wants to go by himself. That is his decison and nobody can help. Or he should go to a person whom he fully trusts. > > 4) > Shri Kaul thinks the Suryasiddhanta to be a work of the f!rst century BCE/CE, without having any proof. Let him live in his own imaginary world if he likes to. > > 5) > He goes on ridiculing Mayasura that he had learnt Jyotish from Surya Bhagawaan, without citing any verse. I remember to have read the name of Vivasvat and not of Surya Bhagawwan in that context. Let Shri Kaul remain in his imaginary world if he likes to. > > 6) > Shri Kaul thinks the Suryasiddhanta to be a work of the f!rst century BCE/CE, without having any proof. Let him live in his own imaginary world if he likes to. > If however he wants the Siddhantic yuga calculations he should approach Shri Vinay Jha or such a scholar, who has the confidence that he is fully familiar with the important Siddhantic texts. > > Regards > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Krishen jyotirved@ wrote: > > Krishen jyotirved@ > Re: Rashi mantra in the Vedanga Jyotisha is spurious! > > Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 9:02 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > Jai Shri Ram: > > There are two points that are still hanging in the air: > > 1. Where is the Rashi mantra of the Vedanga Jyotisha in the INSA > > edition, which Shri Bhattacharjya wanted Shri K. K. Mehrotra to buy to > > see it for himself as to how the translators/ commentators of the edition > > had declared it " not spurious " and numbered it as fifth mantra. > > > > 2. Has Shri Bhattacharya really bought the five folume edition of Yoga > > Vasishta Maharamayana with translatoin which has been published by Gita > > Press. If yes, he is requested to give me the address of the > > shop/booksell from which be bought it, since on enquiry, I find that > > Gita Press, Gorakhpur, have not published any such edition. > > Jai Shri Ram! > > A K Kaul > > > > <> , Sunil Bhattacharjya > > <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Shri Kaul says : > > > > > > Quote > > > > > > All that Shri Bhattacharjya wants to prove is that except for him and > > some " Vedic astrologers " , all the scholars of India like S B Dikshit > > and Dr. Kuppanna Shastry and Dr. Suresh Chandra Mishra and even Somakar > > or even Gita Press translators of the Valmiki Ramayana etc. etc. > > were/are good for nothing fellows and were/are influenced by Max > > Muller's chronology! > > > > > > Unquote > > > > > > Nothing can be further from the truth. Where did I say except for me > > and some Vedic astrologers? So many scholars (including those who do may > > not believe in astrology) reject the AIT - Chronology and not me and > > some Vedic astrologers alone. There have been lot of research lately > > and Shri Kaul seem to have been sleeping. Shri Kaul should wake up and > > look at the findings of the recent researches and the archaeological > > findings. He should also look at the deliberations in the different > > fora / . I said that the people like Dixit might have been > > honest. They had not had the benefit of seeing the results of the > > post-independence research. They were taught only what the colonial > > historians wanted them to know. The scholars like Dixit did not know > > about the colonial distortions of Ancient Indian History and that was > > not their fault. I respect people like Dixit and respectfully point out > > where they erred. > > > > > > The translator of the Balakanda, whoever he was, had erred. That is > > not the fault of the Gita Press. That translator did not understand the > > nuances of astrology. The Gita Press authorities does not check each and > > every lines translated. I have purchased several gita press books such > > as the five-volume Yoga-Vashishtha Ramayana and two-volume two-volume > > Bhagavat purana andther books. I have found the translation mistakes > > here and there. Just because it is from the G someoIta press i shall not > > accept that translation will be without any mistake. > > > > > > Now my friends, if Shri Kaul thinks that the Max Muller's date of Rig > > Veda in 1200 BCE > > > based on the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) is correct he is at liberty > > > to have that view. According to Max Muller the Epic age was several > > centuries fter the > > > date of the Veda and this means the Ramayana dates are much after > > 1200 BCE. > > > If you accept these dates then of course you can deduce that the > > > Indians might have learnt astrology from the Greeks. If you wish to > > believe in what Mr. Kaul says you can go ahead. > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/09, Krishen <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Krishen <jyotirved@ ..> > > > Re: Rashi mantra in the Vedanga Jyotisha is > > spurious! > > > <@ . com> > > > Sunday, October 4, 2009, 8:58 AM > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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