Guest guest Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Haha Hari_ji! I hope you have seen Attenborough's acclaimed (though dramatized!) movie, " Gandhi " in which after a ??Rousing?? emotional speech by Jinnah, Gandhiji made one of his earlier speeches (which Jinnah commented upon, at least in the Movie and perhaps in history too, " Invite him, let him make a few speeches and then let him slip into oblivion ...! " . Gandhi's speech was, " ... Here in Delhi, we handful of lawyers make speeches for one another, while the 'masses' remain unaffected, untouched by our speeches... " Your email made me wonder if Gandhi Baba's words apply to modern Jyotish as well! Pardon my stupid demonstration and paraphrasing, Hari-Ji ;-) |||||||||||||||||||||||||| 'Here on internet Jyotish Bhashan Platforms, we astrologers and astrophiles make cute little statements, postings, sometimes touching the hearts and minds of other astrophiles, and jyotishi-wannabees, at other times appearing to be scholarly and knowledgeable about history that is difficult if not impossible to confirm or even verify (hence the ongoing debates, ya di ya da ya da!), but BY AND LARGE, the MASSES remain untouched, disinterested! The millions of so called Great Unwashed, the MASSES have concerns such as will I get married, will I get a job, when will I become a parent, what will become of my children given the economy, will I survive the disease, will my mother survive the recently diagnosed cancer, and of course to a smaller extent: should I worship Vishu or Ma Jagdambaa or Jesus Christ? They care not ONE FIG about whether they are celebrating the HOLI or MAKAR SANKRANTI exactly when it should have been celebrated! CASE-IN-POINT: None of those MASSES that some of us are CLAIMING OR TRYING TO SAVE the SOULS OF are not even reading these profuse exchanges dripping with SCHOLARLY PRONOUNCEMENTS and at times innuendo and personal or quasi-personal attacks! NOW, if these scholars were also serving the masses through astrological advice, then their words would be striking US MASSES as SINCERE, if nothing else! As they say, each 1000 mile journey begins with the first step, and progresses with each step! |||||||||||||||||||||||||| RR_, , " hari " <harimalla wrote: > > > Dear Rohiniji, > Certainly your words are both sagacioius and comforting.Thankyou for the same. The cause of my worry is, if some so called wise persons hamper the truth or themeaning of the scriptures,then the massses suffer for a longer time. My woorry is mainly for the massses, not that the vedic truth will not shine one day in its own glory. > As you have aptly said both the western suit and the kurta being in the same wardrobe,so also the vedic truth is that both the sayan and the nirayan concepts are limited within the same full moon or pratipada tithi zone.This is surely the meaning of the sixth sloka of yajur vedanga jyotish- " When the sun and the moon are in dhanistha, then the five year yuga, month of maagha, tapa sukla (pratipada) and uttarayan start together. " > Regards, > Hari Malla > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Hari ji (and others in the same boat!), > > > > If you are truly convinced that you are on the right path, and your thinking is correct, why worry about what others think or comment? > > > > But, if you are not fully convinced, then perhaps such a feeling of 'discomfort' may be a godsend that is reminding you to look AGAIN! > > > > Nindak Niyaray Raakhiyay, Aangan Kuti Chabbaai ... > > > > As the Great Mystic Poet said! > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rajji and other friends, > > > Will it be possible to hear your comments on this matter? Bhattacharyaji and Kaulji are both biased persons.They both pretend to know more than what they really know.My experience is they do not mind to belittle the shastras by evading and misinterpreting, if it suits their egos.They are also fond of arguing for the sake of arguments. > > > Thus may I request for some third party intervention or attention so we can proceed with unbiased analysis of the shastras and the truth.Thanks, > > > Regards, > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > What careful examination did Harimalla do? Just writing the phrase " on careful examination " does not make it careful exammination. Harimalla should give up his tricks. This forum has matured people and they can see whether it was careful examination or repetion of Harimalla's old views. > > > > > > > > Once the Uttarayana occurred in the Dhanishtha nakshatra does not mean that it will always occur there. So calling the Uttarayana a sidereal phenomenon is not appropriate as the Nakshatras do not have ayana (ie. movement) but Uttarayana has " ayana " built into it by definition / etymology. If you observe you will see that Harimalla's " Nirayana uttarayana " will mean " No ayana Uttarayana " or " Uttarayana with with no ayana " because Nirayana means : Nih (no) + ayana (movement) = Nirayana. > > > > > > > > Varahamihira observed the night sky with his naked eye as the ancient astronomers used to do and this practice of naked eye observation continued till the end of the nineteenth century to study the positions of the Grahas and the nakshatras. These days we can get the data from the modern astronomical societies or institutions and cansee that the Uttarayana occurs in the Dhanu rashi. > > > > > > > > I am only asking that one should take the actual positions of the occurrence of the Uttarayana just like Darshaneyji had done. Darshaneyji should amalgamate his seasonal calendar with the Sidereal calendar so that he should be able to accommodate the festivals like Ram Navami in the shuklanavami of the purnimanta Chaitra month and Mahashivaratri in the Krishnachaturdashi of the purnimanta Magha month. > > > > > > > > It appears the subject is beyond the comprehension of Harimalla and he should desist from writing on it. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/28/09, hari <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > hari <harimalla@> > > > > Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > Saturday, November 28, 2009, 7:49 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RAjji, > > > > > > > > Bhattacharyaji seems to be right at the face of it. But on careful consideration we have to consider these points too. > > > > > > > > 1)Although Vedang jyotish does not say 'sun in dhanistha' is the 'niryan' postion, we know that since the sun postion is referred to the seteller position it is nothing but 'nirayan' postion, by the modern reckoning and definition of steller or sidereal as nirayan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2)Secondly since this sun's steller position at dhanistha,was equated with uttarayan by the 6th sloka of Yajur vedanga jyotish, it was the nirayan uttarayan of those days, in the same sense, we take makar sankranti as the nirayan uttaryan sankranti of today. It is not that makar sankranti was the uttarayan at Barahmihir's time only, but it is still the uttarayan of today, as we clebrate uttarayan at makar sankranti even now a days, which is specifically mentioned as uttarayan in our present panchangas, even if shri Bhattacharyaji would like to deny that it is the present uttaryan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)Letus not forget what Barahmihir says in his Brihad samhita.We can easily deduce from his expression, that the sun in dhanistha postion was taken as uttarayan nearly upto Barhmihir's time, say for about 1700 years after the start of Vedanga jyotish.Since it remained nirayan for so long a time,surely our system is limited nirayan. > > > > > > > > But we cannot say it is indefintiely nirayan,as Bhattacharyaji would like to think, since Barah mihir did eventually correct it and shifted it to makar sankranti, which we have not been able to shift even today, when its date also has already expired. There is no use denying facts.Please know that it is the nirayan uttarayan of today, till we shift uttrayn to a new position again. > > > > > > > > 4) Last but not the least,If our system was indefinitely nirayan as shri Bhatachryaji claims, and if it is free from the tropical uttarayan, then we could have still used the 'sun in dhanistha' postion of vedanga jyotish as the nirayan uttarayan of today and there was no need for Barhmihir to correct it to make it compatible with the uttarayan of Barhmihir's time.Thus this shows that although our system is nirayan, but it is limited nirayan and we have to coorect it from time to time to make it compatible with the sayan uttarayan which is the actual uttarayan like Barahmihir had done. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Harimalla himself admitted as follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me further clarify my own statement.My intention ws that Barahmihir > > > > > > > > > has mentioned in his Brihad Samhita, chapter Adityacharadhyaya that in > > > > > > > > > the olden days uttaryan occurred in dhanistha because it was true those > > > > > > > > > days, but by his time uttaryan had come to makar sankranti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are celebrating the Makar Sankranti when the Sun enters the Makar Rashi and that is unrelated to the Uttarayana. The Makar Sankranti now falls within the six-month period of Uttarayana starting from the Dhanu Rashi. But does he know that in the Mahabharata times the Sun entered the Makar Rashi in the Dakshinayana (ie. then the Makara Sankranti was in the Daksjinayana) and not in the Uttarayana? Any astronomer will tell him that. There is nothing like Nirayana uttarayana. In Vedanga Jyotisha it was not called Nirayana uttarayana. In the time of the composition of the the Vedanga jyotisha it occurred in the Nirayana Magha month and at that time it was the first seasonal month of the Sishir ritu, ie. the Tapas as Tapas always starts from the Uttarayana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > He also said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now my intention is that Barahmihir did not only change the mind set of > > > > > > > > > the blind people, but he shifted the nirayan uttarayan from the 'sun in > > > > > > > > > dhaninstha'position to the 'sun in makar sankranti'position. Shri > > > > > > > > > Rajji, Please give your opinion if I am right or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I repeat that Varahamihira did not change anything. The start of Uttarayana shifted due to the Precession of the earth and not due to Varahamihira and Varahamihira accepted that phenomenon gracefully. He did not want any credit or discredit that he had changed it. When the Winter Solstice occurred in his time he observed the position of the nakshatras in the sky and he knew that the Sun was not in the Dhanistha nakshatra but in the early part of the Makar rashi. In the ancient times the Jyotishis observed the night sky with their naked eye. Why to speak of the ancient times, even in the nineteenth century there were Jyotishis who observed the night sky for the position of the Grahas and the Nakshatras. Varahamihira simply acknowledged the effects of the precession of the earth. I think it is beyond Shri Harimalla's comprehension so he should leave it at that. Why should he rake his grey matter if he is finding it difficult to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/27/09, hari <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari <harimalla@ ..> > > > > > > > > > Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, November 27, 2009, 8:03 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhattacharyaji and RAjji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us please discuss this issue jointly.I find it difficult to explain what I mean to Bhattacharyaji. Thus I request shree RAjji also to join us here. I had said in my previous mail as follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <Can you please explain what is meant by 'utttayan occurs when sun is in dhanistha or sun is in makar sanrkanti' at different times of our history.If they could be separated what was the necessity to shift the nirayan utttaryan from sun in dhanistha to sun in makar sankranti. If acoording to you indepeendant existaence of the two was OK, we could have as well continued with sun in dhanistha position of uttrayan even today. Why do you think they shifted it to makar sankranti as mentioned by Barhamihir.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me further clarify my own statement.My intention ws that Barahmihir has mentioned in his Brihad Samhita, chapter Adityacharadhyaya that in the olden days uttaryan occurred in dhanistha because it was true those days, but by his time uttaryan had come to makar sankranti. Sinc we are using makar sankranti even now as the 'nirayan' uttarayan,he did shift the nirayan uttarayan of vedanga jyotish,ie 'sun in dhannitatha' to the nirayan uttarayan as 'makar sankranti' which is continued even till this day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But shri Bhattacharyaji has replied thus: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <We don't have to shift anything. We have only to recognise what is what. Now the Uttarayana starts when the Sun is in the Dhanu Rashi, ie. before the Makar Sankranti. In Varahamihira' s time the Uttarayana started in the beginning of the Makar Rashi. Ask any astronomer and he will confirm this. Varahamihira did not have to change anything except changing the mindset of the (intellectually) blind people.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now my intention is that Barahmihir did not only change the mind set of the blind people, but he shifted the nirayan uttarayan from the 'sun in dhaninstha'position to the 'sun in makar sankranti'position. Shri Rajji, Please give your opinion if I am right or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri Harimallaji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uttarayana means the period of six month of the northern course of the Sun. The Makar Sankranti is observed in Uttarayana even now though the start of the Uttarayana is before the Makar sankranti. During the period of Vedanga Jyotisha the Uttarayana started in the first haif of the Dhanistha Nakshatra ie. it occurred in the end of the Makar Rashi. Thus at that time the Makar Sankramana occurred before the start of the Uttarayana. Once explained a school boy will understand this and I hope this will not be difficult for you to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don't have to shift anything. We have only to recognise what is what. Now the Uttarayana starts when the Sun is in the Dhanu Rashi, ie. before the Makar Sankranti. In Varahamihira' s time the Uttarayana started in the beginning of the Makar Rashi. Ask any astronomer and he will confirm this. Varahamihira did not have to change anything except changing the mindset of the (intellectually) blind people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the Brahmana of the Veda we find that at one time the Mahashivaratri fell on the start of the Uttarayana, ie. on the first day of the seasonal month of Tapas (and the astronomers will tell you that this time period was in the third millennium BCE). These days it does not fall on the day of the start of Uttarayana. Ask the schoolboy (whom if you explain the above concept of Uttarayana) and he will tell you that in the Vedic reference the calendar followed for the Mahashivaratri was the Sidereal calendar and not the Seasonal calendar. Darshaneyji, in spite of his good intentions prposed that in 2010 it should be celebrated in 12 tapasya, which defies all logic. It is neither according the Seasonal calendar nor according to the Sidereal calendar. If he strictly follows the Seasonal calendar then he should ask people to celebrate the Mahashivaratri on the Winter solstice day by quoting the precedence in the Veda. Hope this will not > > > > be > > > > > > > > > difficult for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you to undertand this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You profess to be so knowledgeable so are you pretending not to understand all these? If so please do not pretend and do not continue this unnnecessary mails so that the Jyotishis do not get disturbed in their main task of jyotish-discussions . I hope you do not like to make unsubstantiated statements like Shri Kaul, who short-sightaedy does all that just trying to win an argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/21/09, hari <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari <harimalla@ ..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday, November 21, 2009, 12:35 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhatachryaji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please explain what is meant by 'utttayan occurs when sun is in dhanistha or sun is in makar sanrkanti' at different times of our history.If they could be separated what was the necessity to shift the nirayan utttaryan from sun in dhanistha to sun in makar sankranti. If acoording to you indepeendant existaence of the two was OK, we could have as well continued with sun in dhanistha position of uttrayan even today. Why do you think they shifted it to makar sankranti as mentioned by Barhamihir.What was the need if your independant theory of sayan and nirayan was acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that nowadays Shiva ratri is not linked with winter solstice at all.That may have been an old concept which has no bearing today. At present Shivaratri is at the mid point between winter solstice,which is Poush purnima(designated by start of maagha snana) and spring equinox which is Chaitra purnima (designated by Vaisakh snana). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think coupling of the sayan and the nirayan concepts are not needed then please explain why Vedanga jyotish had to coordinate the sun in dhanistha position, uttarayan and also maagha sukla pratipada together into one by thesixth sloka.Thus to be Vedic we have to coordinate sayan sankranti, nirayan sankranti and the lunar tithi together.Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody connected with calendar seems to avoid the Mahashivaratri issue. This year in February 2009 we observed the MahashivaratriÃÆ'‚ two months after the Winter Solstice in December 2008, whereas in the Kaushitaki Brahman the Shivaratri coincided with the Winter solstice. This is a clear case of ignoring the Sayana calendar for observing one of the most important festival of the Hindus. If one respects the Vedas and the Vedic calendar then any proposedcalendar should be able to explain the growing distance between the date of the Winter Solstice and the date of the Mahashivararti. Friends, who are genuinely interested in Vidic Calendar please wake up and look at the case mentioned, which will tell you that the Sayana and the Nirayana Calendars can coexist side by side without interfering with each other.ÃÆ'‚ Approximately every 25,800 years the the angular difference between the Sayana and the Nirayana positions will be > > > > repeated. No > > > > > > > > > compromise of any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sort will be required in Vedic calendar. A time will come when the Mahashivaratri will again coincide with the Winter Solstice. Of course you and me may not be there to see that happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, hari <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hari <harimalla@ ..> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friday, November 20, 2009, 7:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Harry, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly confirm if the vedic correlationship I have drawn is satisfactory to you or not. Step by step we should proceed to arrive at the correct way of reforming our vedic calendar. This correction is of dire necessity now, since our populace are celebrating the festivals on wrong days,say lagging one month behind the schedule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The lunar dates are controlled by the sidereal sankrantis as you must be well knowing. But for them to get the actual seasonal value these same tithis must also touch the sayan dates. For example, during the sidhanta jyotish period,poush purnima was the uttaryan tithi which is the celebrations dates even today, and during the vedanga jyotiish period maagha sukla pratipada was the uttaryan tithi. Although they were related to the makar sankanti and the sun in dhanistha positions respectively, both of which are nirayan dates, they also touched the sayan uttarayan dates and got the true tropical values as well in a coordinated manner during the repective epochs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But now since poush purnima does not touch the actual uttrayan date, this makes it necesssary to correct our vedic calendar again as was done before, as mentioned by Brahmihir in his Brihad samhita.He has said 'In the old scriptures it is mentioned that uttarayan occurs when the sun was in dhanistha nakshyatra, because it was true those days. But now uttrayan occurs when the sun is in makar sankranti, which can be verified practically. ' Thus by shifting the sidereal uttarayan to makar sankranti and the uttarayan tithi to poush purnima, which is evident by the shift of maagha snana,the coordination of the tropical uttaryan date and the sidereal utrarayan date by the respective tithi was maintained after reformation those days, say less than two thousand years ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should we also not do the reformation in the same way, to satisfy the vedic coordination clause specified by the sixth sloka of yajur vedang jyotish is my question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please give your valuable suggestion. Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the Sayana system that is truly Vedic and thats exactly what the Rishi's used. The Nirayana system is non-vedic. Its not based on proper understanding of the Vedic Sacrifice. Sri Aurobindo came to give the correct interpretation of the Veda. And in the Aurobindo Ashram and also in Auroville only Sayana system is used. Only the tropical zodiac is the correct system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harish Kumar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Harishkumar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intention of PNB may be correct as far as our calenar has gone out of tract. But taking the sayan system is not a vedic suggestion, it is the Gregorian suggestion. The vedic suggestion would be to maintain the nirayan saytem and yet reform our calendar the vedic way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This can easily be done by shifting our time frame by one whole month, so that our present Chaitra becoems the new Vaisakh or the present Meen sankranti becomes the new epochal Mesh sankranti. By this way the calendar is both reformed and the current nirayan system remains as it is. This method is the coordination of the concepts of two stalwarts of the nieteeth century- Bala ganagdhar Tilak and Shakar BK Dikshit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the best way to reform our calendar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have the members of this group gone through the works of Patrizia Norelli Bachelet(PNB) and her views on astrology ? She advocates the Sayana Tropical Zodiac as the correct system. She traces the problems of India to a faulty calender and states rectification of it will make us perceive the Cosmic Harmonies which will bring forth the Satya Yuga the Age of Truth. What has been lost is the perfect measure of Time which needs to be retrieved. A resetting of the cosmic clock is necessary according to her for us to See the Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly,its obvious to a child that Makara Sankranti should be celebrated on 21 December on Winter Solstice day,the shortest day of the year. But the current Nirayana system celebrates it 23 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I give below a few useful links : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.aeongroup. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.patrizianorelli bachelet. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Hari Malla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the Sayana system that is truly Vedic and thats exactly what the Rishi's used. The Nirayana system is non-vedic. Its not based on proper understanding of the Vedic Sacrifice. Sri Aurobindo came to give the correct interpretation of the Veda. And in the Aurobindo Ashram and also in Auroville only Sayana system is used. Only the tropical zodiac is the correct system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harish Kumar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " hari " <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Harishkumar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intention of PNB may be correct as far as our calenar has gone out of tract. But taking the sayan system is not a vedic suggestion, it is the Gregorian suggestion. The vedic suggestion would be to maintain the nirayan saytem and yet reform our calendar the vedic way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This can easily be done by shifting our time frame by one whole month, so that our present Chaitra becoems the new Vaisakh or the present Meen sankranti becomes the new epochal Mesh sankranti. By this way the calendar is both reformed and the current nirayan system remains as it is. This method is the coordination of the concepts of two stalwarts of the nieteeth century- Bala ganagdhar Tilak and Shakar BK Dikshit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the best way to reform our calendar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Harry " <harishkumar09@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have the members of this group gone through the works of Patrizia Norelli Bachelet(PNB) and her views on astrology ? She advocates the Sayana Tropical Zodiac as the correct system. She traces the problems of India to a faulty calender and states rectification of it will make us perceive the Cosmic Harmonies which will bring forth the Satya Yuga the Age of Truth. What has been lost is the perfect measure of Time which needs to be retrieved. A resetting of the cosmic clock is necessary according to her for us to See the Truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly,its obvious to a child that Makara Sankranti should be celebrated on 21 December on Winter Solstice day,the shortest day of the year. But the current Nirayana system celebrates it 23 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I give below a few useful links : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.aeongroup. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.patrizianorelli bachelet. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.