[WAVES-Vedic] The Views of Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

Jai Shri Ram!

Shri Sunil

Bhattacharjya has said, “Puranas have not talked about Sayana rashi chakra.

Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your bluffs.â€

 

 

This request is,

as such, for the rest of the members except for Shri Sunil Bhattacharjya!

1. As all the

siddhantas and Puranas tell us that the Uttarayana Day i.e. Winter Solstice is

the shortest day of year and that very day is known as Makar Sankranti,

would you call such a Makar Sankranti as sayana or nirayana and why?

2. As all the

siddhantas and Puranas tell us that Vishuva is the day when day is equal to

night and those very days are known as Mesha and Tula Sankrantis, would you call

such Tula and Mesha Sankrantis as nirayana or sayana and why?

3. As all the

siddhantas and puranas tell us that Dakshinayana Day i.e. Summer Solstice is

the longest day of the year and that very day is known as Karkata Sankranti,

would you call such a Karkata Sankranti as nirayana or sayana and why?

4. As all the

siddhantaqs and puranas tell us that the lunar months Chaitra, Vaishakha etc.

months, which are also known as Madhu, Madhava etc months, start

immediately after the Mina and Mesha Sankrantis etc. what would you call such

synodic months, especially since Chaitra and Vaishakha have been named as the

two months of Vasanta Ritu; Jyeshtha and Ashada as the two months of Grishma

Ritu and so on?

5. As the

Tantra Shastras tell us that the day is the shortest when it is Makar

Sankranti, longest when it is Karkata Sankranti and so on, would you call

such  Tantra-shastra Makar and Karkata Sankrntis as Sayana or nirayana?

6. As  Alberuni

says that in the eleventh century India, Makar Sankranti was being celebrated on

the shortest day of the year after the ayanamsha corrections had been

introduced by Munjala through his Laghumanasa, what would you call such a Makar

Sankranti and so on.

In fact, I

could go on citing hundreds if not thousands of such instances, but I am sure

the above sample is more than enough to give a clear picture of the system of

rashis, whether so called sayana or so called nirayana, that India was

following till a couple of centuries back, whatever  people like Shri Sunil

Bhattacharjya may say.

Jai Shri Ram.

A K Kaul

--- In

vedic_research_institute , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

>

> All the Rashis mentioned in the puranas are Sidereal as shown in the

Vamana purana and no other purana had contradicted that. No purana ever said

that the rashis are not sidereal. Let Jyotirved show a single statement if any

purana specifically mentioned that the Rashis are not sidereeal. All the

Rashis mentioned in the Puranas, as quoted by Jyotirved in hisÂ

BVB6.doc,  are sidereal. His assertions that the Rashis are not

sidereal would not change what Vamana purana says about the rashis. The Vamana

purana tells us which are the nakshatras in a particular Rashi.. Puranas have

not talked about Sayana rashi chakra. Jyotirved is shamelessly continuing your

bluffs.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

>

> --- On Tue, 12/1/09, Krishen jyotirved wrote:

>

> Krishen jyotirved

> [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

Norelli-Bachelet

>

> Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 4:22 AM

>

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> Â

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> Dear friends,

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>

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> Jai Shri Ram!

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>

>

> Shri Bhattacharjya has said, " No purana had ever said that the

>

> Uttarayana day is the Makar Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that

>

> the Uttarayana shifts fron nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in

>

> course of time. The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita in

>

> the 31st century BCE and at that time Makar Sankranti was in the

>

> Dakshinayana and any astronomer worth his salt qwill admit this.. I

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> mentioned that in my earlier mail and Jyotirved ignores that to his

>

> convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on toleratingsuch bluffs after

>

> bluffs. "

>

>

>

> Just to refresh Shri Bhattacharjya' s memory, I am quoting just a few

>

> excerpts from BVB6.doc so that the forum members can see it for

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> themsleves that the Puranas and also the sidhantas talk invariably of a

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> so called Sayana Rashichakra when they say that on the day of Mesha

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> Sankranti day is equal to night and so on.

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>

>

> Jai Shri Ram.

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>

>

> ******** ********

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> ******

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>

> 5. Puranas: I have already quoted hundreds of proofs with

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> chapter and verse in my Panchangas and other articles. It is no use to

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> repeat them here again. Suffice to quote a few only from a couple of

>

> Puranas. First the Vishnupurana: 2/8/28-31 and 67-68

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>

>

> ayanasyotarasyadav makaram yati bhaskarah

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> tatah kumbham cha menam cha rashe rashyantaram dvija

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> (28)

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>

> trishu eteshu atha bhukteshu tato vaishuvatim gatim

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> prayati savita kurvan ahoratram tatah samam

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> (29)

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> tato ratrih kshayam yati vardhate anudinam dinam

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> (30)

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> tatashcha mithunasyante param kashtham upagatah

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> rashim karkatam prapya kurute dakshinayanam

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> (31)

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>

>

> " In the beginning of Uttarayana, the sun enters

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> Capricorn (Makara Rashi) there from going to Kumbha and them Mina. After

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> having passed through these three signs, it just gains vishuvati

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> (equinoctial) speed resulting in the day and night being equal on Mesha.

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> After that, nights start decreasing and the days increasing

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> correspondingly daily. Then when the sun is in the end of Mithuna Rashi,

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> i.e. when it is just at the verge of entering Cancer, the day is the

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> longest then and Dakshnayana starts on that date " .

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> Sharad vsantyor Madhye vishuvam to vibhavyete

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> Tula mesh gate bhanav samratri divam tu tat

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> (67)

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> Karkatavasthite bhanav dakshiyanamuchete

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>

>

> Uttarayanam api uktam makarasthe divakare

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> (88)

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>

>

> " In the midst of sharat ritu and vasanta ritu, vishuvas (equinoxes)

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> take place with the entry of the sun into Tula (Libra) and Mesha (Aries)

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> respectively and days and nights become equal on those two sankrantis.

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> The entry of sun into Cancer (Karkata) is known as dakshinayana whereas

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> its entry into Maraka is known as Uttarayana "

>

>

>

> Now Shrimadbhagavata, 5/21/4-6

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> yada mesh tulyor vartate tada ahoratrani samanani bhavanti yada

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> vrishadishu panchasu cha rashishu charati tada ahani eva vardhante

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> hrasati cha masi masi ekaika ghatika ratrishu (4) yada

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> vrishchikadishu panchasu vartate tada ahoratrani viparyayani bhavanti

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> (5) yavad dakshinayanam ahani vardhante yavad uttarayanam ratrayah

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> (6)

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>

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> " When the sun enters Mesha and Tula days and nights are equal on

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> those dates and the day starts getting longer as compared to nights when

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> the sun passes through Vrisha etc. five rashis then days keep on

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> increasing and the nights decreasing by one ghati every month. (After

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> the day and night have become equal on Tula Sankranti) the nights keep

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> on increasing during the sojourn of five rashis of Vrishchika etc. In

>

> short, during Uttarayana days keep on increasing till Dakshinayana and

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> after that nights keep on increasing " .

>

>

>

> Vishnurhdarmotarapu rana 3/8/6-8 says

>

>

>

> tula meshagate bhanav vishuvad dinam uchete,

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>

>

> dhanvato mithunantashcha ayane soasya dakshine,

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>

>

> " When the sun is in Mesha and Tula, they are the days of Vishuva

>

> i.e. days and nights are equal then. From the end of Dhanu (start of

>

> Makara) Uttarayana starts and from the end of Mithuna (start of Karkata)

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> Dakshniyana starts "

>

>

>

> Any discussion on such topics is incomplete without appropriate

>

> references from Shivamahapurana: We just quote one 5/51/54 from this

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> Purana below:

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>

>

> madhavasya site pakshe tritiya ya akshayabida

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>

>

> tasyam yo jagadambayah vratam kuryad atandritah…

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>

>

> " The tritiya of Shukla paksha of Madhava (!) is know as akshayaya

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> tritiya. One who observes a fast for Jagadamba on that date (gets

>

> immortal and thousand fold results) "

>

>

>

> It is to be noted here that Akshaya tritiya is to be

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> observed in (lunar) Madhava that means according to Shiva-Mahapurana

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> also Vaishakha does not have any other existence besides Madhava! Thus

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> the akshyaya tritiya that we observed in 2003 on May 4, was against all

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> the shastras since solar Madhava had ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava

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> on April 30! A similar situation is going to crop up in 2005. We will

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> be asked to celebrate Akshaya tritiya on May 12, when solar Madhava will

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> have ended on April 20 and lunar Madhava shukla paksha will start on

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> April 8, 2005 which means it should be celebrated actually on April 11,

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> 2005!

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>

>

> Now obviously, if as per all the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha, Surya

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> Sidhanta, Bhagavata, Vishnupurana, Vishnudharmotarapur ana and Shiva

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> Mahapurana etc. etc. solar Shravana is another name of Dakshinayana viz

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> sun in Karkata, it starts on June 21 in 2004. The first shukla pratipat

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> after that is on July 18. Therefore, that is the day when the Lunar

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> Shravana starts in 2004 as per all the Vedas and Puranas etc. As such,

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> Shravana Purnima viz Raksha Bandhan and Amarnath Yatra etc. should be

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> celebrated on July 31 in 2004. Why are our panchangakars asking us to

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> celebrate it on August 29 instead? Only because they treat the entire

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> Hindu society as ignorant fools who have no idea about the criteria of

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> any festivals! Or is it that the panchangakars do not know anything

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> themselves but are just copying from others like blind following blind?

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>

>

> End excerpt

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>

>

> ******* *********

>

> *******

>

>

>

> , Sunil Bhattacharjya

>

> <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Dear friends,

>

> >

>

> > Jyotirved gives another bluff when he says as follows "

>

> >

>

> > ///Â Â Surprisingly, all the Puranas and sidhantas (and not the

>

> Vedas or the VJ!) call that very Uttarayana day as Makar Sankranti!Â

>

> Â ///

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > No purana had ever said that the Uttarayana day is the Makar

>

> Sankranti as the ancient rishis knew that the Uttarayana shifts fron

>

> nakshatra to nakshatra (rashi to rashi) in course of time. The Bhagavata

>

> Purana was recited before Parikshita in the 31st century BCE and at that

>

> time Makar Sankranti was in the Dakshinayana and any astronomer

>

> worth his salt qwill admit this.. I mentioned that in my earlier mail

>

> and Jyotirved ignores that to his convenience. Hope Ramji will not go on

>

> toleratingsuch bluffs after bluffs.

>

> >

>

> > Secondly since Jyotirved does not believe in Sidereal Makar

>

> Sankranti he has no business to poke his long nose into the million

>

> dollar question. Let the believers discuss such points and not

>

> Jyotirved.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > Sunil K. Bhattachatrjya

>

> >

>

> > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, jyotirved jyotirved@ . wrote:

>

> >

>

> > jyotirved jyotirved@ .

>

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: The Views of Patrizia

>

> Norelli-Bachelet

>

> >

>

> > Cc: hinducalendar, " 'subash razdan' "

subashrazdan@ ...,

>

> vedic_research_ institute,

>

> indiaarchaeology

>

> > Monday, November 30, 2009, 5:57 AM

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> >

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> >

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