2-Wes & All.......Is Astrology a science or myth? from Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your observation.

I posted a msg on 26-12-08 under " vbdeshmukh, sreedhar, sanat, re. Announcing

New Book: Seaso……… " in response to your observation on astrology. But I am

still waiting your reply.

 

In the meantime, Wes has came with his observation. Now I again put my questions

that do not try to push the astrology, which is only predictive, in the coverup

of astronomy or religion (why we are here or who we are etc….).

 

In simple words astrology is prediction about future events about education,

job, marriage, children etc. with definite period if not dates. So like every

astrologer please do not try to divert the pointed problem towards nature,

qualities etc., which are purely psychological, and it has nothing to do with

future events.

 

Whereas you are trying to say that Vedic astrology is correct instead of Western

astrology ( due to presence of ayanansh (precession of equinox)). But in India

many astrologers are using Western system (tropical) and they also claim that it

is correct. Whereas you are supporting Vedic system, though there is no

astrology in any Ved.

 

So instead of diverting the issue here and there, why don't you enlighten as to

how astrological principles were formulated. Only then it can be ascertained as

to whether some correction is required in the principles it-self or not and

which principle is correct in view of procedure adopted for fixing principles

(whether it may be by Ptolemy or by Indian sages).

 

Thus to move in this direction I put my simple direction as to how sign was

formulated and who (Babylonian, Greek astronomer or Indian sages etc.) find them

with predictive quality.

 

We can only analyze relevancy and correctness of astrology (predictive) if we

analyze it systematically instead of random support or oppose.

 

I will request all members to take part and intimate their views.

 

Thanks

Sanat

 

 

, " Mark Kincaid " <markkincaid

wrote:

>

> a. Re: Is Astrology a science or myth?

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> <http://profiles./itswagon> Sat Feb 6,

> 2010 6:24 am (PST)

>

> Greetings to all. I am new thanks to an invitation. I've studied

> Astrology since about 1968 and began my studies then to disprove it. I

> haven't yet. I have dismissed quite a bit resulting from my objective

> testing but there is so much more that I've learned that cannot be

> shaken. I am convinced of the validity of the Mother Science and am

> quite comfortable with my claim to be able to prove the validity of the

> science in double-blind demonstrations before an objective panel of

> experts. Astrology has never been my profession and I do not wish to

> become a professional astrologer, but I do enjoy discussions on the

> topic with practical fold interested in talk about " true things. "

> Ok, on to the topic " Is Astrology a Science or Myth? "

>

> Dear Wes, Nice to hear from you.

>

> I'm particularly glad to hear of your confidence in subjecting Astrology

> to such things as double-blinded studies. Unfortunately, the only

> really large study that's been done so far was done completely

> incorrectly. You'll hear people refer to the large German study that

> proposed to try and investigate the relationship between people's

> astrological charts and their chosen careers or professions.

>

> They interviewed over 60,000 people but found their was NO statistical

> relationship between their careers and their Sun signs. When I read

> about this, it made me vry sad to see that the entire premise of this

> study was itself, THE PROBLEM! Even western astrologers should know

> that you don't look to the Sun sign for the information about the

> person's potential careers.

>

> Anyway, if you know of anyone interested in scientific research, those

> of us who are more exprt in the field should work with them to help them

> even ask the right questions! Career, by the way is an automatic

> reflection of the person's 10th house and 10th house lord and any

> aspects upon the 10th house and that 10th house lord.

>

> Mark said, " The sinle, eternally most important and most illusive of all

> human

> questions is why! Why do I exist? What is the purpose

> of my life and existence here? These questions have still not been

> answered. We can now, put a 'man on the Moon' but we

> still can't these most basic of human concerns.

>

> Fortunately, today, in the ancient knowledge and philosophy of

> Astrology is the fulfillment of this question. "

>

> I respond: First, I do believe that jumping to the " Why " question before

> discovering Who we are individually is an unnecessary step -- a problem

> that produces overwhelming expectations. Yes it would be nice to know

> but does the pondering of such a question without facing the question of

> who we are as individuals the right path? I do not believe so. If we

> tackle the question of who we are, and (just as important) who we are

> not, the implications of the study may produce a very clear " why " answer

> just for me alone. It will produce my fit, my gifts, and inadequacies,

> my path, personality, my soul, my attractions and their purposes, my

> repulsions and their purposes, and so much more. My perspective or

> question should not be to understand the " why " for everyone, but to

> determine the " why " for me alone. Perhaps I can then presume some

> theories of how others fit into my life path.

>

> As you undoubtedly discovered later in my article, the reason why I

> mention focusing on one's 'why' is just an important part of Astrology.

> We will find, as you mention above, that Astrology also has the supreme

> ability to help us discover, exactly 'who' we are as well. And, inside

> the knowledge of who we are, what kind of personality we will have, what

> our strengths and weaknesses will be, for example, there will also be

> found the answer to 'why'.

>

> Because we've also been born, to not only live the positive and negative

> parts of our charts, but we've also been born, just so we can learn how

> to Transform, our negatives into positives.

>

> Every person who has a health problem, knows that they want to learn how

> to be healthy.

> Every person who has emotional, (Moon) problems, knows that they want to

> get over these.

>

> The problem is that Astrology has not adequately focused on exactly how

> to strengthen the planets or configurations that are at the true basis

> of all of our problems. But, as more and more creative minds put their

> attentions to this great task, then Astrology will finally become the

> true science of human self-development that it has the potential to be.

>

> Mark said " " Inside each of our astrological charts, is a clear

> description of who we are and who we're even, meant to become. "

>

> I could not agree more except that saying that it is the Interpretation

> of the Astrological Chart that presents the problem. The influences are

> there, there is simply no doubt in my mind on this note. The weaknesses

> is in the interpretation which is doubly weakened by those who know

> nothing about the Structure and Dynamics of the individual human psyche

> and yet arrogantly proceed with interpretations they call intuitive or

> couched in so-called " esoteric " language. The old Mother Science's dress

> is further tattered when the charlatans, who profess knowledge of

> astrology, in fact know little more than how to cash your check or ring

> up your credit card charge. I actually visited a lady who had an

> " Astrology " sign in front of her house. I went in for a reading. I asked

> what house system does she use and she had no idea what I meant. Nothing

> she had to tell me had any relevance or use at all.

>

> Yes, I agree, there are many examples of where Astrology is now, done

> poorly or incompletely. But, that will be solved, the more that

> Astrology is done well! I count 'good' Astrology as 1) that accurately

> interprets the person's chart, accurately. #2) I count 'good' Astrology

> as one that also knows how to help the person develop or strengthen

> their weaker or undeveloped (what are called Malefic) planets.

>

>

>

> Mark continues, " All of our human characteristics, qualities and

> personality traits are well described, there. " No doubt about that

> statement. As I noted above the weakness is in the interpretation by

> those claiming expertise. Even authors of Astrology books are very weak

> in really understanding the individual human being, so how could they

> sufficiently interpret the human characteristics presented in a chart?

> Of course, they can not.

>

> I believe there is a natural relationship with how well every person

> truly understands their own chart, and their ability to ideally

> interpret others. Then, one needs a lot of experience, doing other

> people's charts, to adequately prepare someone to do people's charts,

> 'well'. When I'd studied 50 people's charts, there was a certain level

> of knowledge and wisdom that came from that. But, when I'd expanded to

> 500 people's charts, that was just enough charts to generate quite a bit

> of understanding as well as self-confidence.

>

> Mark said, " The main problem with Astrology, for over 1600 years has

> been Western Astrology has been increasingly becoming more and more out

> of tune with the actual sky. Today, since Western astrologers most

> recently started calculating the 'stars' differently those Mathematics

> have continued pushing Astrology, out of synch with

> the actual sky! "

>

> This argument appears every once in a while for many good reasons,

> however, the answer is that the influences are not in the sky but in the

> Earth. The earth is like the mechanism of a complex clock, the

> background sky, like the signs and houses formed by the time of birth

> are no more than the numbers on the outside face of the clock. The

> planets are the hands of the complex clock. The problem is that many

> believe the backward movement along the ecliptic puts the traditional

> Aries (the beginning of the Natural year) away from the Vernal Equinox

> due to the wobble of the Earth's poles). This would be a problem except

> that the natural year Still begins with the Sun moving North at the

> Beginning of Spring or the Vernal Equinox. The originators of Western

> astrology did not mean that the space in the sky we traditionally call

> Aries for astrology purposes, should still begin at the Vernal Equinox.

> Those wise people in the old times did not actually see images of the

> signs in the sky they placed the images in the sky to match the events

> on the ground, on the Earth, from where the influence emanates.

>

> Exactly how the mechanism of Astrology gets generated is certainly open

> to scrutiny and investigation, but I was just trying to make the point

> that traditional, what is called Tropical Astrology does NOT accuratly

> work, and should continue to be abondened, in favor of th more accurat,

> 'actual sky' approach. When I'd studied my western (Tropical) chart in

> the late 1960's and 70's, I felt that it fit me to some degree, and that

> of course, was very exciting. But, there were a number of other

> references that did not fit me vry well.

>

> But, when I expanded to include the study of my so-called Eastern chart,

> in the late 1980's, that exprience, totally fit me!

> And, with each passing moment of greatr self-understanding I found that

> the Vedic Astrology chart, much more accurate.

>

> My main point is that the 'BEST' of the East could be combined with the

> best, of the old, western system, to create a really profound and

> extremely important TRUE science of Astrology!

>

> The first step is to continue to refine exactly how the symbolisms of

> Astrolgy really do fit people!

>

> Then, when any person has learned which of their planets are positive

> and which one's negative, then, Astrology needs to perfect the

> strategies of self-development, typically called Remedies and Remedial

> measures, until people learn how to literally, TRANSFORM their

> negatives, also into strengths.

>

> Having this as my primary focus now for over 20 years I can say that

> Astrology definitely has the potential for profound, self-development

> and self-improvement.

>

>

> I have to run.

>

> Best wishes,

> Wes

>

> Fun talking with you.

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

> www..com <www..com>

> markkincaid

> Nature's Astrology :

> /

> </>

>