Science of astrology 2- Sanat from Mark Kincaid

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Science of astrology

 

Posted by: "sanat2221"

sanatkumar_jain

 

 

sanat2221

 

 

Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:07 am (PST)

 

Hi. Sanat,Nice talking with you again. After reading your thoughts again, my thought is, why don't now we take a slightly different tack.For example, how well do you know your chart, so far? I'd suggest we talk about your chart, because the extent to which you knowyour own chart, that'll help you really answer your questions!My date of birth info. if you want to trade info. was Sept. 4, 1951 11:17am Kansas City, Missouri US Libra rising sign.Sincerely,Mark KincaidDear Mark,Thanks for your intelligent comments diverting the point of issue,

which you your-self referred as my words (as follows). (this point is

pending since a year)

>>>>>>>"FIRST YOUR WORDS....

 

"why don't you enlighten as to how astrological principles were

formulated. Only then it can be ascertained as to whether some

correction is required in the principles it-self or not and which

principle is correct in view of procedure adopted for fixing principles

(whether it may be by Ptolemy or by Indian sages).

 

Thus to move in this direction I put my simple direction as to how sign

was formulated and who (Babylonian, Greek astronomer or Indian sages

etc.) find them with predictive quality.

 

We can only analyze relevancy and correctness of astrology (predictive)

if we analyze it systematically instead of random support or

oppose."<<<<<<<<<<<

I find that as usual you have not replied the point raised but you have

came out with your views which you may like to infuse in the mind. I

hope you will share your views on my points.

Now my observation on your comments

>>>>>#1 THE VEDIC ASTROLOGY'S MAIN PERSPECTIVE IS THAT

THESE 'TRUTHS' OF A VEDIC OR CONSCIOUSNESS NATURE, COME NOT SO MUCH

FROM ANALYSIS, OR EXPERIENCE EVEN, BUT FROM

VEDIC SEERS WHO COGNIZED THE TRUTHS OF THE VED....<<<<<<

 

NO, Ved Vyas, who wrote Ved, has not referred even a single principle of astrology (predictive), then how you can say that Vedic astrology is truth of Ved.

 

>>>>BUT, WE ALSO LIVE IN A SCIENTIFIC AGE, WHICH I BELIEVE

WAS CREATED, ALSO, BY GOD, TO HELP US LEARN TO VALIDATE AND VERIFY THE

TRUTHS OF LIFE...<<<<

Why God will help us (means astrologers) to earn by disclosing the fate

decided by the God. And how you can say that truth of life may be known

by astrology.

 

>>>>>>FOR ME, PERSONALLY, THERE HAVE BEEN 2 WAYS IN WHICH I'VE FOUND THE TRUTHS OF ASTROLOGY, FOR ME.

 

#1 THE DETAILS, THE RULES AND PRINCIPLES OF MY JYOTISH CHART, REALLY DO FIT M, PERSONALLY, OR

SUBJECTIVELY, MUCH MORE ACCURATELY THAN THE WESTRN SYSTEM...<<<<<<<

I think you are not aware that many Indians find that Western system is

correct instead of socalled Vedic system. Some one may support

Krishnamurty system, Palmistry, terro card, Vaastu, Nadi etc. etc.. So

how you can substantiate that one system is correct. When another

person is having some opposite views. It means it is only personal

psychology, by which you are attached to any one system.

 

>>>>>>>>AND, THE EVERY DAY MOVEMENTS OF THE STARS, ALSO, CONFIRM THE JYOTISH SYSTEM.

IN ADDITION TO STUDYING THE PRINCIPLES OF JYOTISH I'VE ALSO STUDIED THE TRANSITS VERY DEEPLY.

I'VE EVEN BEEN LUCKY TO HAVE MADE A CHART OF EACH DAY FOR OVER 20

YEARS. AND IN ALL THAT TIME,I'VE FOUND, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THAT

NATURE, HERSELF, IS LITERALLY, FOLLOWING THE EXACT RULES AND PRINCIPLES

OF JYOTISH. <<<<<<

 

Please intimate some principles, which in your opinion is being

followed by astrology. I think you may have collected so many

principles during last 20 years.

 

>>>>>>>SO, WHAT WILL BE NEEDED IS EVEN MORE AND

MORE CLOSELY SCRUTINY, TO VERIFY AND VALIDATE THE 'TRUTHS' OF

ASTROLOGY, IN THE FUTURE....

 

BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN, IS THAT

ASTROLOGY NEEDS TO BE CONNECTED EVEN MORE PROFOUNDLY, TO THE POWERFUL

REMEDIES AND REMEDIAL MEASURES, OF 'LIFE' AND THE REAL PURPOSE AND

IMPORTANT RESULT, WILL BE THAT INDIVIDUALS WILL BE HELPED OUT OF THEIR

MISERIES...

SO, THE EMOTIONALLY CRIPPLED PERSON WHO HAS MANY EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS AND

WEAKNESSES, WILL ONLY BE HELPED, IF HE CAN BE TAUGHT LITERALLY, HOW TO

IMPROVE OR STRENGTHEN HIS MOON.

 

THE SATURN IMBALANCED PERSON WITH HEALTH PROBLEMS WILL ONLY BE TRULY

HELPED IF HE LEARNS HOW TO IMPROVE HIS SATURN, CREATING HEALTH, WHERE

HIS TENDENCIES PREVIOUSLY CREATED DIS-EAS AND DISEASE.

<<<<<<<<

 

You mean to say that God wants us to find the truth of life through

astrology so that we (astrologer) may try to undermine the destiny of a

person, where miseries have been fixed by the God, with the help of

socalled remedy.

 

I hope you will clarify above points alongwith my old querry.

 

Thanks

Yours truly,

Sanat

 

PS: Other members may also take part in this discussion.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your comments without any reply on my outstanding point since a year.

OK.

>>>>>>how well do you know your chart, so far? I'd suggest we

talk about your chart, because the extent to which you know

your own chart, that'll help you really answer your questions!<<<<<

 

First of all let me inform you that I am also in your age-group and studying

astrology since last 40 years. So definitely I am also aware with my horoscope.

But if you want to say that I may conclude some prediction and match it with my

life to find out the truth of astrology then I must say that it is not the

proper way to conclude that astrology is correct. Because out of so many

conclusions derived from a (my) horoscope after applying different sort of

principles like lord, aspect, debilitation, friendship, dasha etc., we may get

many (all) prediction with some opposite conclusion. In this situation you may

support those principles, result of which appears to be correct according to

your mindset, and you left other conclusion. But in forecast how you can say

that a particular conclusion is correct and opposite conclusion is not correct.

Psychologically, we only remember those conclusion, which appears to be true and

left other predictions. Hence knowing our horoscope is not going to solve the

problem of correctness of astrology.

Astrology may only be correct, if any principle is socalled correct in a

horoscope may also be correct in all horoscopes having that combination of

planets etc. You also know that it is not so.

 

Then it is only our (client and astrologer) whim to take any prediction as

correct and remember that and forgetting all other wrong predictions.

 

We are actually discussing it randomly, which is favorite tactics of the

astrologers, so that main point and aim may loose in between. Earlier I have

asked to intimate some principles, which in your opinion is correct. As you may

have collected so many principles during last 20 years.

 

If you are shying to answer my earlier points then let us start from the

following point to take deep route in due course.

 

Whether destiny is fixed or not fixed ?

 

Thanks for your pains.

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

 

 

, " Mark Kincaid " <markkincaid

wrote:

>

> Science of astrology

> <../../../../message/1613;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZTkwYmUwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkA\

> zIxODYwMzY3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjY4NgRtc2dJZAMxNjEzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2b\

> XNnBHN0aW1lAzEyNjY2NjM3MTI-> Posted by: " sanat2221 "

> sanatkumar_jain

> <https://webmail3.hrnoc.net/squirrelmail/src/compose.php?Subject=Re%3ASc\

> ience%20of%20astrology & send_to=sanatkumar_jain

> sanat2221 <http://profiles./sanat2221>

> Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:07 am (PST) Hi.

> Sanat,

> Nice talking with you again. After reading your thoughts again, my

> thought is, why don't now we take a slightly different tack.

> For example, how well do you know your chart, so far? I'd suggest we

> talk about your chart, because the extent to which you know

> your own chart, that'll help you really answer your questions!

>

> My date of birth info. if you want to trade info. was Sept. 4, 1951

> 11:17am Kansas City, Missouri US Libra rising sign.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Mark,Thanks for your intelligent comments diverting the point of

> issue, which you your-self referred as my words (as follows). (this

> point is pending since a year)

> >>>>>>> " FIRST YOUR WORDS....

>

> " why don't you enlighten as to how astrological principles were

> formulated. Only then it can be ascertained as to whether some

> correction is required in the principles it-self or not and which

> principle is correct in view of procedure adopted for fixing principles

> (whether it may be by Ptolemy or by Indian sages).

>

> Thus to move in this direction I put my simple direction as to how sign

> was formulated and who (Babylonian, Greek astronomer or Indian sages

> etc.) find them with predictive quality.

>

> We can only analyze relevancy and correctness of astrology (predictive)

> if we analyze it systematically instead of random support or

> oppose. " <<<<<<<<<<<

> I find that as usual you have not replied the point raised but you have

> came out with your views which you may like to infuse in the mind. I

> hope you will share your views on my points.

> Now my observation on your comments

> >>>>>#1 THE VEDIC ASTROLOGY'S MAIN PERSPECTIVE IS THAT THESE 'TRUTHS' OF

> A VEDIC OR CONSCIOUSNESS NATURE, COME NOT SO MUCH FROM ANALYSIS, OR

> EXPERIENCE EVEN, BUT FROM

> VEDIC SEERS WHO COGNIZED THE TRUTHS OF THE VED....<<<<<<

>

> NO, Ved Vyas, who wrote Ved, has not referred even a single principle of

> astrology (predictive), then how you can say that Vedic astrology is

> truth of Ved.

>

> >>>>BUT, WE ALSO LIVE IN A SCIENTIFIC AGE, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS CREATED,

> ALSO, BY GOD, TO HELP US LEARN TO VALIDATE AND VERIFY THE TRUTHS OF

> LIFE...<<<<

> Why God will help us (means astrologers) to earn by disclosing the fate

> decided by the God. And how you can say that truth of life may be known

> by astrology.

>

> >>>>>>FOR ME, PERSONALLY, THERE HAVE BEEN 2 WAYS IN WHICH I'VE FOUND THE

> TRUTHS OF ASTROLOGY, FOR ME.

>

> #1 THE DETAILS, THE RULES AND PRINCIPLES OF MY JYOTISH CHART, REALLY DO

> FIT M, PERSONALLY, OR

> SUBJECTIVELY, MUCH MORE ACCURATELY THAN THE WESTRN SYSTEM...<<<<<<<

> I think you are not aware that many Indians find that Western system is

> correct instead of socalled Vedic system. Some one may support

> Krishnamurty system, Palmistry, terro card, Vaastu, Nadi etc. etc.. So

> how you can substantiate that one system is correct. When another person

> is having some opposite views. It means it is only personal psychology,

> by which you are attached to any one system.

>

> >>>>>>>>AND, THE EVERY DAY MOVEMENTS OF THE STARS, ALSO, CONFIRM THE

> JYOTISH SYSTEM.

> IN ADDITION TO STUDYING THE PRINCIPLES OF JYOTISH I'VE ALSO STUDIED THE

> TRANSITS VERY DEEPLY.

> I'VE EVEN BEEN LUCKY TO HAVE MADE A CHART OF EACH DAY FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

> AND IN ALL THAT TIME,I'VE FOUND, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THAT NATURE,

> HERSELF, IS LITERALLY, FOLLOWING THE EXACT RULES AND PRINCIPLES OF

> JYOTISH. <<<<<<

>

> Please intimate some principles, which in your opinion is being followed

> by astrology. I think you may have collected so many principles during

> last 20 years.

>

> >>>>>>>SO, WHAT WILL BE NEEDED IS EVEN MORE AND MORE CLOSELY SCRUTINY,

> TO VERIFY AND VALIDATE THE 'TRUTHS' OF ASTROLOGY, IN THE FUTURE....

>

> BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN, IS THAT

> ASTROLOGY NEEDS TO BE CONNECTED EVEN MORE PROFOUNDLY, TO THE POWERFUL

> REMEDIES AND REMEDIAL MEASURES, OF 'LIFE' AND THE REAL PURPOSE AND

> IMPORTANT RESULT, WILL BE THAT INDIVIDUALS WILL BE HELPED OUT OF THEIR

> MISERIES...

> SO, THE EMOTIONALLY CRIPPLED PERSON WHO HAS MANY EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS AND

> WEAKNESSES, WILL ONLY BE HELPED, IF HE CAN BE TAUGHT LITERALLY, HOW TO

> IMPROVE OR STRENGTHEN HIS MOON.

>

> THE SATURN IMBALANCED PERSON WITH HEALTH PROBLEMS WILL ONLY BE TRULY

> HELPED IF HE LEARNS HOW TO IMPROVE HIS SATURN, CREATING HEALTH, WHERE

> HIS TENDENCIES PREVIOUSLY CREATED DIS-EAS AND DISEASE. <<<<<<<<

>

> You mean to say that God wants us to find the truth of life through

> astrology so that we (astrologer) may try to undermine the destiny of a

> person, where miseries have been fixed by the God, with the help of

> socalled remedy.

>

> I hope you will clarify above points alongwith my old querry.

>

> Thanks

> Yours truly,

> Sanat

>

> PS: Other members may also take part in this discussion.

>

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[Guest guest]

Re: Science of astrology 2- Sanat from Mark Kincaid

 

Posted by: "sanat2221"

sanatkumar_jain

 

 

sanat2221

 

 

Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:30 pm (PST)

 

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your comments without any reply on my outstanding point since a year.

OK. Dear Sanat,Previously, you talked about how many astrologers use different systems in India and there is no consensus of which are correct, etc. I want to say I agree that there are many differing views as to how people both, try to understand Astrology and how they use it. But, this doesn't mean that there isn't one system, one true laws of nature that is the 'real' and scientific Astrology. See, below....I think you are not aware that many Indians find that Western system is

> correct instead of so called Vedic system. Some one may support

> Krishnamurty system, Palmistry, terro card, Vaastu, Nadi etc. etc.. So

> how you can substantiate that one system is correct. When another person

> is having some opposite views. It means it is only personal psychology,

> by which you are attached to any one system.For example, in the history of humanity there have been many systems of understanding including such disciplines as Alchemy and Philosophy or all sorts, etc. etc. But, then, science began and individuals banded together to try and figure out if a system of self-examination could be adopted that would allow all these differing views of 'reality' to become integrated.And, the result now, 300 years later is that we do have a very well-integrated, sophisticated system of understanding the universe, based on profound mathematics, and tests of verification and validation. There are of course, many controversies in the field of science as well. But, what is extremely attractive about modern day 'science' is that theyhave learned how to reconcile their differences and come to a synthesis of what is true and what is not.Case in point was the old view that the world was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe. Scientific study, prediction and mathematics have since proven that the world is round and the earth is but one planet, orbiting a medium size Sun, which itself is orbiting the middle of just one of billions of galaxies in this known universe.Obviously, the field of Astrology could benefit tremendously by learning to become more scientific.We could start a system of verification and validation that could help people determine whether their systems are more true or accurate from the billions of humanity that could so powerfully benefit from this knowledge.In my own experience, I have found that the Lahiri based system that I've followed, which by the way, is still, probably the most well followed system in the world today, does fit me very accurately.And, I was very happy to hear that you have been studying your own chart as well.My next question, for you is, have you found that it fits you?In first point, do the character and human characteristics aspect of your chart fit you?Does the Sun, Moon and Rising sign, symbolism's fit your personality, your mental and emotional make-up and yourhuman disposition? If the answer to this is yes, then, you've verified for your self that this system that you're usingdoes indeed fit you.The next step is to discover if the system of Astrology that we're 'each' using fits those around us.And, like I said before, when I first came back from India in 1987, where I first got exposed to Jyotish, I found that many people had been given predictions by all of the most active, well known and famous astrologers and Jyotishees of that time and so many of these predictions DIDN'T turn out to be true.But, the Guru that had introduced me to Jyotish said that Jyotish should be accurate in its ability to predict, so Ithought obviously, there was something wrong with the way people were using Astrology if their predictions weren't being truthful.As a result, I focused on a different aspect of Jyotish, on what I could find that was accurate. What I immediately found was the symbolisms of my chart really did fit me. And, I compared that to the Western, Tropical Astrology thatI'd grown up with in my early 20's. Some of that system, by the way, did fit, but not much and the Jyotish system fitme much more accurately.Then, I decided to see if this system of Jyotish fit other people I knew. I focused on my family members first because I thought I know them the best and I might be able to more easily determine if their charts fit them. I quickly discovered that their personalities, their very unique human dispositions and tendencies,did fit their charts too, in the same way that my chart fit me.That, then, inspired me to expand into my friends. After about 25, then, 50 and finally about 100 people I began to see a very obvious pattern emerging where I now 'knew' that this system of Astrology was accurate. And, if you've studied how the system that you've been following, fits other people around you, then, you too, will grow in the 'aha' that Astrology is accurate. What needs to happen in the future is we need to take all the different systems of Astrology and cross analyze them,and use the same tools of modern science to come to a better synthesis of what truly works.In my own case I continued just because people's charts so accurately fit them!When, I got up to 500 people and literally all of them fit their charts, that was extremely powerful.Then, when I got up to 1,000, 2,000 and eventually, 3,4 and 5,000 I knew that this system works.But, if you want to focus on the different systems that people use, then, we should start a scientific journal, where wecould invite people of different systems, to create scientific papers with powerful studies of their different groups.Then, we could begin to analyze which systems are the most accurate.I've purposefully stayed away from the predictive side of Astrology, just because its seemed to be the least accurate.Did you look up my chart, (Sept. 4,1951, 11:17am Kansas City, Missouri US - Libra rising)? What system of Jyotish do you use?And, has it allowed you to see your self more clearly?Sincerely,Mark KincaidPS: Personal self-validation is only the beginning, but if our own system doesn't fit us, then, we won't even think toapply to others. Maybe you're one of those people that can help the world learn to resolve the obvious differencesdue to different systems.But, you need to come up with a system such that the different systems can be analyzed in terms of their effectiveness, regardless of whether predictions or human characteristics are predicted.

>

>>>>>>how well do you know your chart, so far? I'd suggest we

talk about your chart, because the extent to which you know

your own chart, that'll help you really answer your questions!<<<<<

 

First of all let me inform you that I am also in your age-group and

studying astrology since last 40 years. So definitely I am also aware

with my horoscope. But if you want to say that I may conclude some

prediction and match it with my life to find out the truth of astrology

then I must say that it is not the proper way to conclude that

astrology is correct. Because out of so many conclusions derived from a

(my) horoscope after applying different sort of principles like lord,

aspect, debilitation, friendship, dasha etc., we may get many (all)

prediction with some opposite conclusion. In this situation you may

support those principles, result of which appears to be correct

according to your mindset, and you left other conclusion. But in

forecast how you can say that a particular conclusion is correct and

opposite conclusion is not correct.

Psychologically, we only remember those conclusion, which appears to be

true and left other predictions. Hence knowing our horoscope is not

going to solve the problem of correctness of astrology.

Astrology may only be correct, if any principle is socalled correct in

a horoscope may also be correct in all horoscopes having that

combination of planets etc. You also know that it is not so.

 

Then it is only our (client and astrologer) whim to take any prediction

as correct and remember that and forgetting all other wrong predictions.

We are actually discussing it randomly, which is favorite tactics

of the astrologers, so that main point and aim may loose in between.

Earlier I have asked to intimate some principles, which in your opinion

is correct. As you may have collected so many principles during last 20

years.

 

If you are shying to answer my earlier points then let us start from the following point to take deep route in due course.

 

Whether destiny is fixed or not fixed ?

 

Thanks for your pains.

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your candid admission about astrology.

I agree with your first part where you have mentioned as to how science has

enriched our knowledge etc.

I also agree with following observation

>>>>>>>Case in point was the old view that the world was flat and that the earth

was the center of the universe. Scientific study, prediction and

mathematics have since proven that the world is round and the earth is

but one planet, orbiting a medium size Sun, which itself is orbiting the

middle of just one of billions of galaxies in this known universe.

 

Obviously, the field of Astrology could benefit tremendously by learning to

become more scientific.<<<<<<<<<

But you know that astronomy has enriched and not astrology (predictive).

 

>>>>>>We could start a system of verification and validation that could help

people determine whether their systems are more true or accurate from the

billions of humanity that could so powerfully benefit from this knowledge.<<<<<

 

Yes, for verification you (anyone) must be aware as to (1) how existing

principles were formulated, (2) what were the data which were used for

formulating various principles, (3) how correctness of these principles were

checked and so on. (You may refer msg 1 of our forum `' for

more detail).

Now, astrologers (including you) are neither aware with point (1) and (2) above,

nor they are interested to dig it. Every astrologer is thinking that astrology

(predictive) is correct after following his own system of verification (in

various systems being followed). As you have mentioned about the Lahiri based

system and after matching human characteristics you are thinking that astrology

is correct (point 3). Whereas characteristic seems to be matching

psychologically and it has nothing to do with predictive astrology. In my book

`Astrology a science or myth' (also available in US and on internet), I have

specifically mentioned about the forecast of everyone, which match with everyone

even without consulting horoscope. So it does not mean that astrology

(predictive) is correct.

 

You your-self has mentioned that

>>>>>> I found that many people had been given predictions by all of the most

active, well known and famous astrologers and Jyotishees of that time and so

many of these predictions DIDN'T turn out to be true.<<<<<<<

I will like to thank you for your correct admission.

But have you ever ponder as to why their predictions were wrong, when they were

famous astrologer (means able to correctly apply the principles). Reason behind

this was not that astrologers were wrong but it was not their fault because if

principles are based on wrong concept then how prediction may be correct.

 

>>>>>>>But, the Guru that had introduced me to Jyotish said that Jyotish should

be accurate in its ability to predict.<<<<<<

Yes, your Guru ji has correctly said that ability of astrology rest in its

capacity to predict about future events (and not characterization, which is

psychological affect).

 

>>>>And, if you've studied how the system that you've been following, fits other

people around you, then, you too, will

grow in the 'aha' that Astrology is accurate. <<<<

I will not say so if prediction is not correct. If you see the file section,

then you will find a file `Eskain horo' etc., where you find as to how I have

developed a software incorporating the principles.

 

>>>What needs to happen in the future is we need to take all the different

systems of Astrology and cross analyze them,

and use the same tools of modern science to come to a better synthesis

of what truly works.<<<<<<

Every system and principle leads to different prediction and any prediction may

randomly correct then how you can conclude as to which principle is correct.

 

>>>>>But, if you want to focus on the different systems that people use,

then, we should start a scientific journal, where we

could invite people of different systems, to create scientific papers

with powerful studies of their different groups.<<<<<

You can refer file section for this venture.

 

 

>>>>>I've purposefully stayed away from the predictive side of Astrology, just

because its seemed to be the least accurate.<<<<<

YES, in last you have admitted, which I am protesting since long. So when

prediction is least accurate then how you can conclude and support that

astrology (predictive) is correct.

For your kind information in ancient age, astrology was referred for tracking

the movement of planets etc. Subsequently it was linked with weather and then

with characteristic (which you are following) and then prediction. For which

principles were drafted. With the development of science since last 300-400

years, basic root of astrology (tracking the movement of planet among

constellation) is now known as astronomy, which is science and we (human

civilization) are exploring it. But correctness or scientific nature of

astronomy has nothing to do with astrology, which is now referred for predictive

part.

I am also analyzing predictive astrology thorough our forum and not astronomy.

And after my association with predictive astrology since last 40 years I can say

that predictive astrology is neither science nor correct with any system (Vedic,

Western, Krishnamurty, palmistry, numerology etc. )

Thanks,

 

Yours truly,

Sanat

 

 

PS : any member may take part in our interaction, with his stand and invite his

friend to this forum. No permission for joining or msg. is required.

 

 

 

, " Mark Kincaid " <markkincaid

wrote:

>

> Re: Science of astrology 2- Sanat from Mark Kincaid

> <../../../../message/1617;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2VzNjluBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkA\

> zIxODYwMzY3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjY4NgRtc2dJZAMxNjE3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2b\

> XNnBHN0aW1lAzEyNjcwMDk2NjA-> Posted by: " sanat2221 "

> sanatkumar_jain

> <https://webmail3.hrnoc.net/squirrelmail/src/compose.php?Subject=Re%3A%2\

> 0Science%20of%20astrology%20%202-%20Sanat%20from%20Mark%20Kincaid & send_t\

> o=sanatkumar_jain

> sanat2221 <http://profiles./sanat2221>

> Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:30 pm (PST)

>

> Dear Mark,

> Thanks for your comments without any reply on my outstanding point since

> a year.

> OK.

>

> Dear Sanat,

>

> Previously, you talked about how many astrologers use different systems

> in India and there is no consensus of which are correct, etc. I want to

> say I agree that there are many differing views as to how people both,

> try to understand Astrology and how they use it. But, this doesn't mean

> that there isn't one system, one true laws of nature that is the 'real'

> and scientific Astrology. See, below....

>

> I think you are not aware that many Indians find that Western system is

> > correct instead of so called Vedic system. Some one may support

> > Krishnamurty system, Palmistry, terro card, Vaastu, Nadi etc. etc.. So

> > how you can substantiate that one system is correct. When another

> person

> > is having some opposite views. It means it is only personal

> psychology,

> > by which you are attached to any one system.

>

> For example, in the history of humanity there have been many systems of

> understanding including such disciplines as Alchemy and Philosophy or

> all sorts, etc. etc. But, then, science began and individuals banded

> together to try and figure out if a system of self-examination could be

> adopted that would allow all these differing views of 'reality' to

> become integrated.

>

> And, the result now, 300 years later is that we do have a very

> well-integrated, sophisticated system of understanding the universe,

> based on profound mathematics, and tests of verification and validation.

> There are of course, many controversies in the field of science as well.

> But, what is extremely attractive about modern day 'science' is that

> they

> have learned how to reconcile their differences and come to a synthesis

> of what is true and what is not.

>

> Case in point was the old view that the world was flat and that the

> earth was the center of the universe. Scientific study, prediction and

> mathematics have since proven that the world is round and the earth is

> but one planet, orbiting a medium size Sun, which itself is orbiting the

> middle of just one of billions of galaxies in this known universe.

>

> Obviously, the field of Astrology could benefit tremendously by learning

> to become more scientific.

>

> We could start a system of verification and validation that could help

> people determine whether their systems are more true or accurate from

> the billions of humanity that could so powerfully benefit from this

> knowledge.

>

> In my own experience, I have found that the Lahiri based system that

> I've followed, which by the way, is still, probably the most well

> followed system in the world today, does fit me very accurately.

>

> And, I was very happy to hear that you have been studying your own chart

> as well.

>

> My next question, for you is, have you found that it fits you?

>

> In first point, do the character and human characteristics aspect of

> your chart fit you?

>

> Does the Sun, Moon and Rising sign, symbolism's fit your personality,

> your mental and emotional make-up and your

> human disposition? If the answer to this is yes, then, you've verified

> for your self that this system that you're using

> does indeed fit you.

>

> The next step is to discover if the system of Astrology that we're

> 'each' using fits those around us.

>

> And, like I said before, when I first came back from India in 1987,

> where I first got exposed to Jyotish, I found that many people had been

> given predictions by all of the most active, well known and famous

> astrologers and Jyotishees of that time and so many of these predictions

> DIDN'T turn out to be true.

>

> But, the Guru that had introduced me to Jyotish said that Jyotish should

> be accurate in its ability to predict, so I

> thought obviously, there was something wrong with the way people were

> using Astrology if their predictions weren't being truthful.

>

> As a result, I focused on a different aspect of Jyotish, on what I could

> find that was accurate. What I immediately found was the symbolisms of

> my chart really did fit me. And, I compared that to the Western,

> Tropical Astrology that

> I'd grown up with in my early 20's. Some of that system, by the way,

> did fit, but not much and the Jyotish system fit

> me much more accurately.

>

> Then, I decided to see if this system of Jyotish fit other people I

> knew. I focused on my family members first because I thought I know

> them the best and I might be able to more easily determine if their

> charts fit them. I quickly discovered that their personalities, their

> very unique human dispositions and tendencies,did fit their charts too,

> in the same way that my chart fit me.

>

> That, then, inspired me to expand into my friends. After about 25,

> then, 50 and finally about 100 people I began to see a very obvious

> pattern emerging where I now 'knew' that this system of Astrology was

> accurate.

>

> And, if you've studied how the system that you've been following, fits

> other people around you, then, you too, will

> grow in the 'aha' that Astrology is accurate.

>

> What needs to happen in the future is we need to take all the different

> systems of Astrology and cross analyze them,

> and use the same tools of modern science to come to a better synthesis

> of what truly works.

>

> In my own case I continued just because people's charts so accurately

> fit them!

>

> When, I got up to 500 people and literally all of them fit their charts,

> that was extremely powerful.

>

> Then, when I got up to 1,000, 2,000 and eventually, 3,4 and 5,000 I knew

> that this system works.

>

> But, if you want to focus on the different systems that people use,

> then, we should start a scientific journal, where we

> could invite people of different systems, to create scientific papers

> with powerful studies of their different groups.

>

> Then, we could begin to analyze which systems are the most accurate.

>

> I've purposefully stayed away from the predictive side of Astrology,

> just because its seemed to be the least accurate.

>

> Did you look up my chart, (Sept. 4,1951, 11:17am Kansas City, Missouri

> US - Libra rising)?

>

> What system of Jyotish do you use?

>

> And, has it allowed you to see your self more clearly?

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

> PS: Personal self-validation is only the beginning, but if our own

> system doesn't fit us, then, we won't even think to

> apply to others. Maybe you're one of those people that can help the

> world learn to resolve the obvious differences

> due to different systems.

>

> But, you need to come up with a system such that the different systems

> can be analyzed in terms of their effectiveness, regardless of whether

> predictions or human characteristics are predicted.

>

>

> >

> >>>>>>how well do you know your chart, so far? I'd suggest we

> talk about your chart, because the extent to which you know

> your own chart, that'll help you really answer your questions!<<<<<

>

> First of all let me inform you that I am also in your age-group and

> studying astrology since last 40 years. So definitely I am also aware

> with my horoscope. But if you want to say that I may conclude some

> prediction and match it with my life to find out the truth of astrology

> then I must say that it is not the proper way to conclude that astrology

> is correct. Because out of so many conclusions derived from a (my)

> horoscope after applying different sort of principles like lord, aspect,

> debilitation, friendship, dasha etc., we may get many (all) prediction

> with some opposite conclusion. In this situation you may support those

> principles, result of which appears to be correct according to your

> mindset, and you left other conclusion. But in forecast how you can say

> that a particular conclusion is correct and opposite conclusion is not

> correct.

> Psychologically, we only remember those conclusion, which appears to be

> true and left other predictions. Hence knowing our horoscope is not

> going to solve the problem of correctness of astrology.

> Astrology may only be correct, if any principle is socalled correct in a

> horoscope may also be correct in all horoscopes having that combination

> of planets etc. You also know that it is not so.

>

> Then it is only our (client and astrologer) whim to take any prediction

> as correct and remember that and forgetting all other wrong predictions.

>

> We are actually discussing it randomly, which is favorite tactics of the

> astrologers, so that main point and aim may loose in between. Earlier I

> have asked to intimate some principles, which in your opinion is

> correct. As you may have collected so many principles during last 20

> years.

>

> If you are shying to answer my earlier points then let us start from the

> following point to take deep route in due course.

>

> Whether destiny is fixed or not fixed ?

>

> Thanks for your pains.

>

> Yours truly,

> Sanat

>