Why Graha drishti is impossible -Ms.Margaret

June 8, 2007

Dear Ms Margaret

1)Rule for Graha drishti is crystal clear.Pls see how Aspectual

strength(Shadbala)is calculated.Late Santhanam,categorically

said,aspects emanate by longitudinal degrees,denying varga based

aspects.

2)All planets roughly aspect 14th/15th nakshathras from them,roughly

translating to 180 degrees.Special aspect planets will have drishti

in between and forward/backward.Thus this too emanates by physical

disposition.Relevance of nakshathra drishti here - Span of Navamshas

and nakshathra padas are equal.

3)Planets might appear as if in 1/7 position in navamsha

chakras,while not so in reality.Thus aspect is not possible as per

definition.

One is free to analyze a chart as they want.To sell it under vedic

astrology umbrella ,their is a binding moral obligation -

Rules,unless it is a personal opinion.

I hope it is clear.

Others better learned my hold diff views.

Best Regds

Pradeep

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> Thank you for trying so hard to explain these concepts, very kind

of you to take time to write this up, and I do understand about

dignities of planets according to their relationship to the various

amsas. I did not mean navamsa 'setting' in the way you interpret, I

meant in terms of a navamsa context etc though obviously expressed

my meaning badly...

> I do understand the navamsa and how it is used by various

astrologers etc but obviously did not express my points very clearly

within the limitations of e mail.

> However it is this statement you make which I was trying to get to

the heart of in my previous mail:--

> ''Sage has said a particular point within a Rashi is having a

subtle connection with another rashi through tattwa sambandha -

analogous but through another principle

> which is beyond our understanding''

>

> I was asking if anyone had fathomed what this connection

of 'another principle beyond our understanding is?? what is the

rationale behind the connection???? Why have the rishis organised

navamsa with the nine divisions distributed in the way that they

are, does anyone know....was my question, and without knowing this

any new way of using navamsa is baseless.

>

> I personally have my own theories as to the 'subtle' connection to

be honest, and so can understand the principles behind it.

> I was merely pointing out that until this rationale for the

connection or 'tattwas sambhanda' is known then the argument about

whether to use aspects of planets in navamsa, as some do see it as a

separate chart, though not necessarily myself, is a difficult one to

pursue without a sound understanding of this rationale.

> Hope this better conveys my point, if not then I am lost for words

but not without trying:-)

>

> Hope you got the chart data

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:43 PM

> Re: Varga Longitudes and new

Nakshathras ?!!! -Ms.Margaret

>

> Dear Ms Margaret

>

> You have covered the points in detail.Especially sex of signs

and the

> tattwas behind navamsha definition.Thanks a lot.

> After your mail,i feel i have not been able to convey my

> understanding properly inspite of numerous mails in the past

> including the previous one.Otherwise your doubt regarding aspect

> and ''navamsha setting'' would not have arised in the first

place.

>

> My point is when we anlalyse a chart,we are not analysing rashi

> chakra in isolation first -stop-and then take up navamsha

> seperately.Rather they go together.

> For this i draw your attention towards the old style of drawing

> navamsha sambandhas out side rashi chakra.When we talk about a

planet

> 1)Placed in Gemini/Sag 2)having navamsha sambandha there, we are

not

> talking about 2 different Geminis and Sag.It says those planets

are

> related to the same Gemini/Sag Rashi through different ways.For

the

> same reason they are called as Amshaka Rashis.

>

> Now let me mention the difference.Rashi position is the

> manifested ,physically measurable and visible relationship.The

> distance between them is measurable and is also a physical

function

> which is responsible for a physical relationship.Drishti is a

visible

> function.For example sage said Rashis do not aspect those in

their

> sides(Side being a physical concept).Also planetary special

aspects

> are based on atsronomy(outer /inner - Physical functions).

>

> Navamshas and other Varga sambandhas are pointing to subtler

> relationships.

>

> Let us assume that we have a pond with 12 sectors of ropes tied

from

> the centre to the circumference,simlar to rashi chakra.Assume we

are

> throwing nine stones into various sectors.The physical placement

> shows rashi positions.Now these stones will create ripples and

waves

> generated will move and join other sectors.Sometimes this wave

can

> come back exactly to the same sector(Vargottama).These relations

are

> amshaka Sambandhas.As you may see the Rashi is the same,but one

stone

> (planet) is having different kinds of relationships - one

through

> waves and another through fall(position).

>

> Now in astrology,the difference is - Sage has said a particular

point

> within a Rashi is having a subtle connection with another rashi

> through tattwa sambandha - analogous but through another

principle

> which is beyond our understanding.Depending on the kind of

division

> (drekkana/navamsha/dashamsha) relationship pattern varies.This

is

> because one planet can radiate multiple waves at the same time

for

> different purposes.For example you are one but you can be

> mother,wife,sister,granddaughter,student,astrologer etc at the

same

> time.

>

> Now we cannot find aspect from a place where a wave from one

planet

> has joined to another place where a wave from another planet has

> joined.

>

> Thus Gemini/Navamsha axis is just one ,planetary emphasis can be

> through placement or navamsha sambandha.We analyse them together

with

> aspects always from rashi position.

>

> In this light if you see the Lagna shadvargake shloka- things

will be

> more clear.Lagna is having shadvarga sambandhas with some

rashis.If

> the same planet is aspecting or joining all of these Rashis then

Raja

> yoga results.For example Lagna Rashi is Cancer,Lagna Hora rashi

is

> Cancer,Lagna drekkana rashi is scorpio,Lagna navamsha rashi is

> capricorn,Lagna trimshamsha Rashi is Sag,Saptamsha is

Capricorn.Mars

> is placed Cancer Rashi.Then Mars is aspecting or Joining the

> Shadvargas of Lagna resulting in Rajayoga.

>

> Best Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep

> >

> > Thank you for your exposition which is a good evaluation of

the

> sign placements, and how this emphasis on them relates to the

> shootings in schools.

> >

> > However, due to the signs only being emphasised in navamsa,

not

> rasi I wasn't sure why or whether it was appropriate to

interpret

> this way from navamsa placements which are about marriage and

> future..hope I am being clear about my meaning...

> >

> > Certainly if we go back to basics then naming of navamsas

relates

> primarily to the triplicities of earth fire air and water, and

each

> cardinal rasi begins its navamsa count with its own sign, thus

> attention is drawn to quadruplicity of cardinal/chara,

mutable/dwisha

> and sthira/fixed. So Gem /Sag are air and fire respectively, and

> both are dwishabha.

> >

> > Attention is then drawn to the fact that both are also male

signs,

> not feminine, and it is (no offense intended or sexism)

primarily,

> to my knowledge, only men who perform this act.

> >

> > Dhanu is warriorlike also whilst Gemini is sudra/servant.

> >

> > Gemini navamsa is not found in the water triplicity and Dhanu

> navamsa is not found in the earth triplicity.

> >

> > Triplicities deal with temperament whilst the quadruplicities

deal

> with modes of activity.

> > So this navamsa placement understood in the above context,

gives us

> more insight into the nature of the person or the event.

> >

> > If we can apply these interps of Gem/Sag in a navamsa setting,

then

> why can we not take it one step further and apply aspects as

well, I

> hear many ask.......

> >

> > The planetary relationship in rasi completely changes in

navamsa

> and of course I understand the mechanics astrologically of ninth

> division, but I don't understand the rationale as to why the

rishis

> allotted these little divisionals in this manner causing the

> planetary relationships in rasi to each other to completely

change in

> navamsa.

> > Now if I understood why they did this, then perhaps I might be

more

> confident of knowing whether it is appropriate to use aspects

and pay

> more attention to degree placements in navamsa.

> > And if we are saying it is OK to talk about the Gem Sag axis,

which

> defines an opposition aspect, then why aren't we saying we can

use

> the other aspects as well I wonder.

> > I will type the data and post it a little later, please bear

with me

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Wednesday, June 06, 2007 5:31 PM

> > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> Nakshathras ?!!! -Ms.Margaret

> >

> > Dear Ms Margaret

> >

> > Navamshas show one kind of relationship a graha is having with

a

> > Rashi.It is interesting to note your observation (Gemini/Sag)

> > axis.Gemini is the natural third(initiatives) which can be

quick

> > (nature of budha) and Yuva/Prince(immature).Moreover budha

> > represents student/study.

> >

> > Dhanu is the kshethra of Guru.Guru is teacher and we are

talking

> > about shoot out in institutions.Dhanu Rashi likes Samara as it

is

> > qualified as having ''Samarotsukata'' - enthusiastic or ever-

> > prepared to fight.Being the natural 9th - the house of dharma

and

> > Justice - fights can be for a genuine cause reviving/upholding

> > dharma.The symbol of archer conveys the enthusiasm.

(Disclaimer -

> This

> > refers to an ideal condition and not a generalisation for

Dhanu -

> You

> > know about the past debates).

> >

> > If some Malefics or similar functionals have attained

navamshas

> on

> > Gemini and Sag Rashis,it shows some subtle trigger creating

> > imbalance.We have to also see the aspects/lordship/placement

> of/on

> > these planets in those Rashis before arriving at conclusions.

> >

> > Thanks for your open attitude.Kindly share the charts.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Satish

> > >

> > > I am only responding for your request to share my view.

> > > I have tried to follow this ongoing debate for many years

now,

> and

> > have kept an open mind about it.

> > > More recently I was reminded of the debate when I set up a

> number

> > of charts all of which were times of shootings in schools.

What

> did

> > surprise me was that in every chart the navamsa showed the

Gemini

> > Sag axis was emphasised. I found this unexplainable as I still

> don't

> > see why this should show in these signs in navamsa but not

rasi,

> > and can't find a rational or understandable explanation as to

why

> it

> > should be this way, even though I looked at the illustration

of

> the

> > zodiac and divisions and their distribution on a huge display

of

> > them that I have.

> > >

> > > There must be some subtle connection with the signs in amsas

> and

> > rasi but I could not decode a degree relationship or aspectual

> > relationship in rasi which would unravel the mystery of

> connection

> > though clearly the ancient sages understood it, but it is

still a

> > mystery to me. Perhaps someone could explain it?

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > > -

> > > SPK

> > >

> > > Tuesday, June 05, 2007 7:17 PM

> > > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> > Nakshathras ?!!!

> > >

> > > Vijaydas,

> > >

> > > I agree with your views on the subject. Using sign

> > > divisions as divisional charts has been a big myth.

> > > The myth has reached such proportions that it is now

> > > institutionalized into an unquestionable truth. I am

> > > glad that there are a few who are willing to challenge

> > > the myth or atleast reevaluate its validity.

> > > Divisional charts have made explaining away the

> > > " known " unexplainable very easy and efficient. When

> > > one can't explain a chart, create new parameters thats

> > > the modern mantra.

> > >

> > > Satish

> > > --- vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep@>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Respected members

> > > >

> > > > I have been troubling and disturbing many learned

> > > > souls since long

> > > > and request apology.

> > > >

> > > > I have to repeat as now there are attempts to bring

> > > > in concepts of

> > > > varga longitudes and new nakshathras inspite of all

> > > > the ''NEW

> > > > theories'' we are having at the moment.

> > > >

> > > > 1)Can we imagine VIOLET amsha within WHITE light

> > > > relating back to

> > > > VIOLET Colour as a WHOLE.Similarly we have 12 Rashis

> > > > and within

> > > > those Rashis there are again tattwa principles

> > > > relating back to

> > > > Individual Rashis.

> > > >

> > > > 2)Rashi Chakra and planetary dispositions are the

> > > > only patterns that

> > > > are ''VISIBLE'' or in other words physically

> > > > manifested.

> > > >

> > > > 3)Amsha sambandhas are subtle currents through which

> > > > planets are

> > > > relating to various RASHIS within RASHI CHAKRA which

> > > > CANNOT be

> > > > physically FELT or VISIBLE.For eg NavaPranas as in

> > > > navamsha

> > > > sambandha.

> > > >

> > > > 4)Some of us do repeat like parrot,every now and

> > > > then - Rashi is

> > > > Physical ..Rashi is physical..Rashi is physical on

> > > > one hand and keep

> > > > on treating and analysing Varga sambandhas as

> > > > seperate charts with

> > > > PHYSICAL and GROSS PRINCIPLES - outside Rashi

> > > > chakra!!.

> > > >

> > > > Vargas are found through a single ''physical

> > > > longitude'' and those

> > > > relations do not have further longitudes!!!.

> > > >

> > > > Varga sambandha is not ahowing any Physical

> > > > disposition which one

> > > > can see as in ASPECT or PLACEMENT.Those are subtle

> > > > connections

> > > > between Rashi tattwas.

> > > >

> > > > If it is contradicting with the understanding of

> > > > learned

> > > > souls,kindly forgive.

> > > >

> > > > Pls share your views

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > http://search./search?

> > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > >

June 8, 2007

Dear Pradeep

The spatial relationship of nakshatra to navamsa and both to rasi is an easy one

to grasp, and I can understand that there is little basis in the classics I have

read to use aspects seen only in amsas.

I have also followed that argument that the amsas are based upon the various

aspectual differences and therefore aspects are justifiably used in them.

My problem is that in the UK many people do not have the correct and accurate

time, so I find that using the amsas is fraught with enough problems without

resorting to comparing using aspects in amsas or not, to be truthful. For the

most part I use amsas to see strengths according to kendra, exaltation etc and

even then very very warily:-)

I have noticed in charts where the time is reliable that certain house

placements in amsas can form revealing patterns across an event sample of

charts, as with the shootings where the navasma showed Sag/gem axis for example.

I wont add more as it will only weigh down the explanation

Best wishes

M

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Friday, June 08, 2007 4:44 PM

Why Graha drishti is impossible -Ms.Margaret

Dear Ms Margaret

1)Rule for Graha drishti is crystal clear.Pls see how Aspectual

strength(Shadbala)is calculated.Late Santhanam,categorically

said,aspects emanate by longitudinal degrees,denying varga based

aspects.

2)All planets roughly aspect 14th/15th nakshathras from them,roughly

translating to 180 degrees.Special aspect planets will have drishti

in between and forward/backward.Thus this too emanates by physical

disposition.Relevance of nakshathra drishti here - Span of Navamshas

and nakshathra padas are equal.

3)Planets might appear as if in 1/7 position in navamsha

chakras,while not so in reality.Thus aspect is not possible as per

definition.

One is free to analyze a chart as they want.To sell it under vedic

astrology umbrella ,their is a binding moral obligation -

Rules,unless it is a personal opinion.

I hope it is clear.

Others better learned my hold diff views.

Best Regds

Pradeep

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

>

> Thank you for trying so hard to explain these concepts, very kind

of you to take time to write this up, and I do understand about

dignities of planets according to their relationship to the various

amsas. I did not mean navamsa 'setting' in the way you interpret, I

meant in terms of a navamsa context etc though obviously expressed

my meaning badly...

> I do understand the navamsa and how it is used by various

astrologers etc but obviously did not express my points very clearly

within the limitations of e mail.

> However it is this statement you make which I was trying to get to

the heart of in my previous mail:--

> ''Sage has said a particular point within a Rashi is having a

subtle connection with another rashi through tattwa sambandha -

analogous but through another principle

> which is beyond our understanding''

>

> I was asking if anyone had fathomed what this connection

of 'another principle beyond our understanding is?? what is the

rationale behind the connection???? Why have the rishis organised

navamsa with the nine divisions distributed in the way that they

are, does anyone know....was my question, and without knowing this

any new way of using navamsa is baseless.

>

> I personally have my own theories as to the 'subtle' connection to

be honest, and so can understand the principles behind it.

> I was merely pointing out that until this rationale for the

connection or 'tattwas sambhanda' is known then the argument about

whether to use aspects of planets in navamsa, as some do see it as a

separate chart, though not necessarily myself, is a difficult one to

pursue without a sound understanding of this rationale.

> Hope this better conveys my point, if not then I am lost for words

but not without trying:-)

>

> Hope you got the chart data

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:43 PM

> Re: Varga Longitudes and new

Nakshathras ?!!! -Ms.Margaret

>

> Dear Ms Margaret

>

> You have covered the points in detail.Especially sex of signs

and the

> tattwas behind navamsha definition.Thanks a lot.

> After your mail,i feel i have not been able to convey my

> understanding properly inspite of numerous mails in the past

> including the previous one.Otherwise your doubt regarding aspect

> and ''navamsha setting'' would not have arised in the first

place.

>

> My point is when we anlalyse a chart,we are not analysing rashi

> chakra in isolation first -stop-and then take up navamsha

> seperately.Rather they go together.

> For this i draw your attention towards the old style of drawing

> navamsha sambandhas out side rashi chakra.When we talk about a

planet

> 1)Placed in Gemini/Sag 2)having navamsha sambandha there, we are

not

> talking about 2 different Geminis and Sag.It says those planets

are

> related to the same Gemini/Sag Rashi through different ways.For

the

> same reason they are called as Amshaka Rashis.

>

> Now let me mention the difference.Rashi position is the

> manifested ,physically measurable and visible relationship.The

> distance between them is measurable and is also a physical

function

> which is responsible for a physical relationship.Drishti is a

visible

> function.For example sage said Rashis do not aspect those in

their

> sides(Side being a physical concept).Also planetary special

aspects

> are based on atsronomy(outer /inner - Physical functions).

>

> Navamshas and other Varga sambandhas are pointing to subtler

> relationships.

>

> Let us assume that we have a pond with 12 sectors of ropes tied

from

> the centre to the circumference,simlar to rashi chakra.Assume we

are

> throwing nine stones into various sectors.The physical placement

> shows rashi positions.Now these stones will create ripples and

waves

> generated will move and join other sectors.Sometimes this wave

can

> come back exactly to the same sector(Vargottama).These relations

are

> amshaka Sambandhas.As you may see the Rashi is the same,but one

stone

> (planet) is having different kinds of relationships - one

through

> waves and another through fall(position).

>

> Now in astrology,the difference is - Sage has said a particular

point

> within a Rashi is having a subtle connection with another rashi

> through tattwa sambandha - analogous but through another

principle

> which is beyond our understanding.Depending on the kind of

division

> (drekkana/navamsha/dashamsha) relationship pattern varies.This

is

> because one planet can radiate multiple waves at the same time

for

> different purposes.For example you are one but you can be

> mother,wife,sister,granddaughter,student,astrologer etc at the

same

> time.

>

> Now we cannot find aspect from a place where a wave from one

planet

> has joined to another place where a wave from another planet has

> joined.

>

> Thus Gemini/Navamsha axis is just one ,planetary emphasis can be

> through placement or navamsha sambandha.We analyse them together

with

> aspects always from rashi position.

>

> In this light if you see the Lagna shadvargake shloka- things

will be

> more clear.Lagna is having shadvarga sambandhas with some

rashis.If

> the same planet is aspecting or joining all of these Rashis then

Raja

> yoga results.For example Lagna Rashi is Cancer,Lagna Hora rashi

is

> Cancer,Lagna drekkana rashi is scorpio,Lagna navamsha rashi is

> capricorn,Lagna trimshamsha Rashi is Sag,Saptamsha is

Capricorn.Mars

> is placed Cancer Rashi.Then Mars is aspecting or Joining the

> Shadvargas of Lagna resulting in Rajayoga.

>

> Best Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep

> >

> > Thank you for your exposition which is a good evaluation of

the

> sign placements, and how this emphasis on them relates to the

> shootings in schools.

> >

> > However, due to the signs only being emphasised in navamsa,

not

> rasi I wasn't sure why or whether it was appropriate to

interpret

> this way from navamsa placements which are about marriage and

> future..hope I am being clear about my meaning...

> >

> > Certainly if we go back to basics then naming of navamsas

relates

> primarily to the triplicities of earth fire air and water, and

each

> cardinal rasi begins its navamsa count with its own sign, thus

> attention is drawn to quadruplicity of cardinal/chara,

mutable/dwisha

> and sthira/fixed. So Gem /Sag are air and fire respectively, and

> both are dwishabha.

> >

> > Attention is then drawn to the fact that both are also male

signs,

> not feminine, and it is (no offense intended or sexism)

primarily,

> to my knowledge, only men who perform this act.

> >

> > Dhanu is warriorlike also whilst Gemini is sudra/servant.

> >

> > Gemini navamsa is not found in the water triplicity and Dhanu

> navamsa is not found in the earth triplicity.

> >

> > Triplicities deal with temperament whilst the quadruplicities

deal

> with modes of activity.

> > So this navamsa placement understood in the above context,

gives us

> more insight into the nature of the person or the event.

> >

> > If we can apply these interps of Gem/Sag in a navamsa setting,

then

> why can we not take it one step further and apply aspects as

well, I

> hear many ask.......

> >

> > The planetary relationship in rasi completely changes in

navamsa

> and of course I understand the mechanics astrologically of ninth

> division, but I don't understand the rationale as to why the

rishis

> allotted these little divisionals in this manner causing the

> planetary relationships in rasi to each other to completely

change in

> navamsa.

> > Now if I understood why they did this, then perhaps I might be

more

> confident of knowing whether it is appropriate to use aspects

and pay

> more attention to degree placements in navamsa.

> > And if we are saying it is OK to talk about the Gem Sag axis,

which

> defines an opposition aspect, then why aren't we saying we can

use

> the other aspects as well I wonder.

> > I will type the data and post it a little later, please bear

with me

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Wednesday, June 06, 2007 5:31 PM

> > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> Nakshathras ?!!! -Ms.Margaret

> >

> > Dear Ms Margaret

> >

> > Navamshas show one kind of relationship a graha is having with

a

> > Rashi.It is interesting to note your observation (Gemini/Sag)

> > axis.Gemini is the natural third(initiatives) which can be

quick

> > (nature of budha) and Yuva/Prince(immature).Moreover budha

> > represents student/study.

> >

> > Dhanu is the kshethra of Guru.Guru is teacher and we are

talking

> > about shoot out in institutions.Dhanu Rashi likes Samara as it

is

> > qualified as having ''Samarotsukata'' - enthusiastic or ever-

> > prepared to fight.Being the natural 9th - the house of dharma

and

> > Justice - fights can be for a genuine cause reviving/upholding

> > dharma.The symbol of archer conveys the enthusiasm.

(Disclaimer -

> This

> > refers to an ideal condition and not a generalisation for

Dhanu -

> You

> > know about the past debates).

> >

> > If some Malefics or similar functionals have attained

navamshas

> on

> > Gemini and Sag Rashis,it shows some subtle trigger creating

> > imbalance.We have to also see the aspects/lordship/placement

> of/on

> > these planets in those Rashis before arriving at conclusions.

> >

> > Thanks for your open attitude.Kindly share the charts.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Satish

> > >

> > > I am only responding for your request to share my view.

> > > I have tried to follow this ongoing debate for many years

now,

> and

> > have kept an open mind about it.

> > > More recently I was reminded of the debate when I set up a

> number

> > of charts all of which were times of shootings in schools.

What

> did

> > surprise me was that in every chart the navamsa showed the

Gemini

> > Sag axis was emphasised. I found this unexplainable as I still

> don't

> > see why this should show in these signs in navamsa but not

rasi,

> > and can't find a rational or understandable explanation as to

why

> it

> > should be this way, even though I looked at the illustration

of

> the

> > zodiac and divisions and their distribution on a huge display

of

> > them that I have.

> > >

> > > There must be some subtle connection with the signs in amsas

> and

> > rasi but I could not decode a degree relationship or aspectual

> > relationship in rasi which would unravel the mystery of

> connection

> > though clearly the ancient sages understood it, but it is

still a

> > mystery to me. Perhaps someone could explain it?

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > > -

> > > SPK

> > >

> > > Tuesday, June 05, 2007 7:17 PM

> > > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> > Nakshathras ?!!!

> > >

> > > Vijaydas,

> > >

> > > I agree with your views on the subject. Using sign

> > > divisions as divisional charts has been a big myth.

> > > The myth has reached such proportions that it is now

> > > institutionalized into an unquestionable truth. I am

> > > glad that there are a few who are willing to challenge

> > > the myth or atleast reevaluate its validity.

> > > Divisional charts have made explaining away the

> > > " known " unexplainable very easy and efficient. When

> > > one can't explain a chart, create new parameters thats

> > > the modern mantra.

> > >

> > > Satish

> > > --- vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep@>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Respected members

> > > >

> > > > I have been troubling and disturbing many learned

> > > > souls since long

> > > > and request apology.

> > > >

> > > > I have to repeat as now there are attempts to bring

> > > > in concepts of

> > > > varga longitudes and new nakshathras inspite of all

> > > > the ''NEW

> > > > theories'' we are having at the moment.

> > > >

> > > > 1)Can we imagine VIOLET amsha within WHITE light

> > > > relating back to

> > > > VIOLET Colour as a WHOLE.Similarly we have 12 Rashis

> > > > and within

> > > > those Rashis there are again tattwa principles

> > > > relating back to

> > > > Individual Rashis.

> > > >

> > > > 2)Rashi Chakra and planetary dispositions are the

> > > > only patterns that

> > > > are ''VISIBLE'' or in other words physically

> > > > manifested.

> > > >

> > > > 3)Amsha sambandhas are subtle currents through which

> > > > planets are

> > > > relating to various RASHIS within RASHI CHAKRA which

> > > > CANNOT be

> > > > physically FELT or VISIBLE.For eg NavaPranas as in

> > > > navamsha

> > > > sambandha.

> > > >

> > > > 4)Some of us do repeat like parrot,every now and

> > > > then - Rashi is

> > > > Physical ..Rashi is physical..Rashi is physical on

> > > > one hand and keep

> > > > on treating and analysing Varga sambandhas as

> > > > seperate charts with

> > > > PHYSICAL and GROSS PRINCIPLES - outside Rashi

> > > > chakra!!.

> > > >

> > > > Vargas are found through a single ''physical

> > > > longitude'' and those

> > > > relations do not have further longitudes!!!.

> > > >

> > > > Varga sambandha is not ahowing any Physical

> > > > disposition which one

> > > > can see as in ASPECT or PLACEMENT.Those are subtle

> > > > connections

> > > > between Rashi tattwas.

> > > >

> > > > If it is contradicting with the understanding of

> > > > learned

> > > > souls,kindly forgive.

> > > >

> > > > Pls share your views

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > http://search./search?

> > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > >

June 9, 2007

Dear Ms Margaret

I thank you for your open mindedness in listening to various views as

compared to blind acceptance of any theory.As you had questioned my

logic before giving a benefit of doubt for my views,your view of

considering my opinion also as a possibility makes me glad.Moreover

your depth of knowledge as compared to me also makes me happy.

In fact to be honest,the natural answer which i had got right from

the beginning has remained the same.Later when i read more and more

the joy i got was self satisfactory in nature,when i came to know

that there were many giants who hold similar views.To be honest

again,thus it is not my view,but the view of Sages.Anyone who can

read the calssics with an open mind will get this view.One should

read numerous shlokas and see how drishties,bhavas and amshas are

used together.

I feel one should not be biased and needs to have a free and open

mind,especially while in search of Truth ,as in Jyotisha.I honestly

admit that i have gained a lot thorugh,the online free knowledge

shared by shri Sanjay Rath and the software of shri PVR Narasimha

Rao.But i feel this does not mean we have to accept whatever they are

proposing.We respect individuals but differ in views.

Now regarding kendras,i feel if any planet is having amsha in a

kendra from natal lagna it will have a high siginificance.So is if

they are having amsha in konas.This is how i study charts apart from

other amsha strengths as mentioned by sages.

I will give my views on the charts that you have provided.

I feel if we all can work in tandem,then Jyotish revaltion will be

eased.

Regds

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep

> The spatial relationship of nakshatra to navamsa and both to rasi

is an easy one to grasp, and I can understand that there is little

basis in the classics I have read to use aspects seen only in amsas.

> I have also followed that argument that the amsas are based upon

the various aspectual differences and therefore aspects are

justifiably used in them.

> My problem is that in the UK many people do not have the correct

and accurate time, so I find that using the amsas is fraught with

enough problems without resorting to comparing using aspects in amsas

or not, to be truthful. For the most part I use amsas to see

strengths according to kendra, exaltation etc and even then very

very warily:-)

> I have noticed in charts where the time is reliable that certain

house placements in amsas can form revealing patterns across an event

sample of charts, as with the shootings where the navasma showed

Sag/gem axis for example. I wont add more as it will only weigh down

the explanation

> Best wishes

> M

>

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Friday, June 08, 2007 4:44 PM

> Why Graha drishti is impossible -

Ms.Margaret

>

> Dear Ms Margaret

>

> 1)Rule for Graha drishti is crystal clear.Pls see how Aspectual

> strength(Shadbala)is calculated.Late Santhanam,categorically

> said,aspects emanate by longitudinal degrees,denying varga based

> aspects.

>

> 2)All planets roughly aspect 14th/15th nakshathras from

them,roughly

> translating to 180 degrees.Special aspect planets will have

drishti

> in between and forward/backward.Thus this too emanates by physical

> disposition.Relevance of nakshathra drishti here - Span of

Navamshas

> and nakshathra padas are equal.

>

> 3)Planets might appear as if in 1/7 position in navamsha

> chakras,while not so in reality.Thus aspect is not possible as

per

> definition.

>

> One is free to analyze a chart as they want.To sell it under vedic

> astrology umbrella ,their is a binding moral obligation -

> Rules,unless it is a personal opinion.

>

> I hope it is clear.

>

> Others better learned my hold diff views.

>

> Best Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > Thank you for trying so hard to explain these concepts, very

kind

> of you to take time to write this up, and I do understand about

> dignities of planets according to their relationship to the

various

> amsas. I did not mean navamsa 'setting' in the way you interpret,

I

> meant in terms of a navamsa context etc though obviously

expressed

> my meaning badly...

> > I do understand the navamsa and how it is used by various

> astrologers etc but obviously did not express my points very

clearly

> within the limitations of e mail.

> > However it is this statement you make which I was trying to get

to

> the heart of in my previous mail:--

> > ''Sage has said a particular point within a Rashi is having a

> subtle connection with another rashi through tattwa sambandha -

> analogous but through another principle

> > which is beyond our understanding''

> >

> > I was asking if anyone had fathomed what this connection

> of 'another principle beyond our understanding is?? what is the

> rationale behind the connection???? Why have the rishis organised

> navamsa with the nine divisions distributed in the way that they

> are, does anyone know....was my question, and without knowing

this

> any new way of using navamsa is baseless.

> >

> > I personally have my own theories as to the 'subtle' connection

to

> be honest, and so can understand the principles behind it.

> > I was merely pointing out that until this rationale for the

> connection or 'tattwas sambhanda' is known then the argument

about

> whether to use aspects of planets in navamsa, as some do see it

as a

> separate chart, though not necessarily myself, is a difficult one

to

> pursue without a sound understanding of this rationale.

> > Hope this better conveys my point, if not then I am lost for

words

> but not without trying:-)

> >

> > Hope you got the chart data

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Thursday, June 07, 2007 9:43 PM

> > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> Nakshathras ?!!! -Ms.Margaret

> >

> > Dear Ms Margaret

> >

> > You have covered the points in detail.Especially sex of signs

> and the

> > tattwas behind navamsha definition.Thanks a lot.

> > After your mail,i feel i have not been able to convey my

> > understanding properly inspite of numerous mails in the past

> > including the previous one.Otherwise your doubt regarding

aspect

> > and ''navamsha setting'' would not have arised in the first

> place.

> >

> > My point is when we anlalyse a chart,we are not analysing rashi

> > chakra in isolation first -stop-and then take up navamsha

> > seperately.Rather they go together.

> > For this i draw your attention towards the old style of drawing

> > navamsha sambandhas out side rashi chakra.When we talk about a

> planet

> > 1)Placed in Gemini/Sag 2)having navamsha sambandha there, we

are

> not

> > talking about 2 different Geminis and Sag.It says those planets

> are

> > related to the same Gemini/Sag Rashi through different ways.For

> the

> > same reason they are called as Amshaka Rashis.

> >

> > Now let me mention the difference.Rashi position is the

> > manifested ,physically measurable and visible relationship.The

> > distance between them is measurable and is also a physical

> function

> > which is responsible for a physical relationship.Drishti is a

> visible

> > function.For example sage said Rashis do not aspect those in

> their

> > sides(Side being a physical concept).Also planetary special

> aspects

> > are based on atsronomy(outer /inner - Physical functions).

> >

> > Navamshas and other Varga sambandhas are pointing to subtler

> > relationships.

> >

> > Let us assume that we have a pond with 12 sectors of ropes tied

> from

> > the centre to the circumference,simlar to rashi chakra.Assume

we

> are

> > throwing nine stones into various sectors.The physical

placement

> > shows rashi positions.Now these stones will create ripples and

> waves

> > generated will move and join other sectors.Sometimes this wave

> can

> > come back exactly to the same sector(Vargottama).These

relations

> are

> > amshaka Sambandhas.As you may see the Rashi is the same,but one

> stone

> > (planet) is having different kinds of relationships - one

> through

> > waves and another through fall(position).

> >

> > Now in astrology,the difference is - Sage has said a particular

> point

> > within a Rashi is having a subtle connection with another rashi

> > through tattwa sambandha - analogous but through another

> principle

> > which is beyond our understanding.Depending on the kind of

> division

> > (drekkana/navamsha/dashamsha) relationship pattern varies.This

> is

> > because one planet can radiate multiple waves at the same time

> for

> > different purposes.For example you are one but you can be

> > mother,wife,sister,granddaughter,student,astrologer etc at the

> same

> > time.

> >

> > Now we cannot find aspect from a place where a wave from one

> planet

> > has joined to another place where a wave from another planet

has

> > joined.

> >

> > Thus Gemini/Navamsha axis is just one ,planetary emphasis can

be

> > through placement or navamsha sambandha.We analyse them

together

> with

> > aspects always from rashi position.

> >

> > In this light if you see the Lagna shadvargake shloka- things

> will be

> > more clear.Lagna is having shadvarga sambandhas with some

> rashis.If

> > the same planet is aspecting or joining all of these Rashis

then

> Raja

> > yoga results.For example Lagna Rashi is Cancer,Lagna Hora rashi

> is

> > Cancer,Lagna drekkana rashi is scorpio,Lagna navamsha rashi is

> > capricorn,Lagna trimshamsha Rashi is Sag,Saptamsha is

> Capricorn.Mars

> > is placed Cancer Rashi.Then Mars is aspecting or Joining the

> > Shadvargas of Lagna resulting in Rajayoga.

> >

> > Best Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep

> > >

> > > Thank you for your exposition which is a good evaluation of

> the

> > sign placements, and how this emphasis on them relates to the

> > shootings in schools.

> > >

> > > However, due to the signs only being emphasised in navamsa,

> not

> > rasi I wasn't sure why or whether it was appropriate to

> interpret

> > this way from navamsa placements which are about marriage and

> > future..hope I am being clear about my meaning...

> > >

> > > Certainly if we go back to basics then naming of navamsas

> relates

> > primarily to the triplicities of earth fire air and water, and

> each

> > cardinal rasi begins its navamsa count with its own sign, thus

> > attention is drawn to quadruplicity of cardinal/chara,

> mutable/dwisha

> > and sthira/fixed. So Gem /Sag are air and fire respectively,

and

> > both are dwishabha.

> > >

> > > Attention is then drawn to the fact that both are also male

> signs,

> > not feminine, and it is (no offense intended or sexism)

> primarily,

> > to my knowledge, only men who perform this act.

> > >

> > > Dhanu is warriorlike also whilst Gemini is sudra/servant.

> > >

> > > Gemini navamsa is not found in the water triplicity and Dhanu

> > navamsa is not found in the earth triplicity.

> > >

> > > Triplicities deal with temperament whilst the quadruplicities

> deal

> > with modes of activity.

> > > So this navamsa placement understood in the above context,

> gives us

> > more insight into the nature of the person or the event.

> > >

> > > If we can apply these interps of Gem/Sag in a navamsa

setting,

> then

> > why can we not take it one step further and apply aspects as

> well, I

> > hear many ask.......

> > >

> > > The planetary relationship in rasi completely changes in

> navamsa

> > and of course I understand the mechanics astrologically of

ninth

> > division, but I don't understand the rationale as to why the

> rishis

> > allotted these little divisionals in this manner causing the

> > planetary relationships in rasi to each other to completely

> change in

> > navamsa.

> > > Now if I understood why they did this, then perhaps I might

be

> more

> > confident of knowing whether it is appropriate to use aspects

> and pay

> > more attention to degree placements in navamsa.

> > > And if we are saying it is OK to talk about the Gem Sag axis,

> which

> > defines an opposition aspect, then why aren't we saying we can

> use

> > the other aspects as well I wonder.

> > > I will type the data and post it a little later, please bear

> with me

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > >

> > > -

> > > vijayadas_pradeep

> > >

> > > Wednesday, June 06, 2007 5:31 PM

> > > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> > Nakshathras ?!!! -Ms.Margaret

> > >

> > > Dear Ms Margaret

> > >

> > > Navamshas show one kind of relationship a graha is having

with

> a

> > > Rashi.It is interesting to note your observation (Gemini/Sag)

> > > axis.Gemini is the natural third(initiatives) which can be

> quick

> > > (nature of budha) and Yuva/Prince(immature).Moreover budha

> > > represents student/study.

> > >

> > > Dhanu is the kshethra of Guru.Guru is teacher and we are

> talking

> > > about shoot out in institutions.Dhanu Rashi likes Samara as

it

> is

> > > qualified as having ''Samarotsukata'' - enthusiastic or ever-

> > > prepared to fight.Being the natural 9th - the house of dharma

> and

> > > Justice - fights can be for a genuine cause

reviving/upholding

> > > dharma.The symbol of archer conveys the enthusiasm.

> (Disclaimer -

> > This

> > > refers to an ideal condition and not a generalisation for

> Dhanu -

> > You

> > > know about the past debates).

> > >

> > > If some Malefics or similar functionals have attained

> navamshas

> > on

> > > Gemini and Sag Rashis,it shows some subtle trigger creating

> > > imbalance.We have to also see the aspects/lordship/placement

> > of/on

> > > these planets in those Rashis before arriving at conclusions.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your open attitude.Kindly share the charts.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi Satish

> > > >

> > > > I am only responding for your request to share my view.

> > > > I have tried to follow this ongoing debate for many years

> now,

> > and

> > > have kept an open mind about it.

> > > > More recently I was reminded of the debate when I set up a

> > number

> > > of charts all of which were times of shootings in schools.

> What

> > did

> > > surprise me was that in every chart the navamsa showed the

> Gemini

> > > Sag axis was emphasised. I found this unexplainable as I

still

> > don't

> > > see why this should show in these signs in navamsa but not

> rasi,

> > > and can't find a rational or understandable explanation as to

> why

> > it

> > > should be this way, even though I looked at the illustration

> of

> > the

> > > zodiac and divisions and their distribution on a huge display

> of

> > > them that I have.

> > > >

> > > > There must be some subtle connection with the signs in

amsas

> > and

> > > rasi but I could not decode a degree relationship or

aspectual

> > > relationship in rasi which would unravel the mystery of

> > connection

> > > though clearly the ancient sages understood it, but it is

> still a

> > > mystery to me. Perhaps someone could explain it?

> > > > best wishes

> > > > M

> > > > -

> > > > SPK

> > > >

> > > > Tuesday, June 05, 2007 7:17 PM

> > > > Re: Varga Longitudes and new

> > > Nakshathras ?!!!

> > > >

> > > > Vijaydas,

> > > >

> > > > I agree with your views on the subject. Using sign

> > > > divisions as divisional charts has been a big myth.

> > > > The myth has reached such proportions that it is now

> > > > institutionalized into an unquestionable truth. I am

> > > > glad that there are a few who are willing to challenge

> > > > the myth or atleast reevaluate its validity.

> > > > Divisional charts have made explaining away the

> > > > " known " unexplainable very easy and efficient. When

> > > > one can't explain a chart, create new parameters thats

> > > > the modern mantra.

> > > >

> > > > Satish

> > > > --- vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Respected members

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been troubling and disturbing many learned

> > > > > souls since long

> > > > > and request apology.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have to repeat as now there are attempts to bring

> > > > > in concepts of

> > > > > varga longitudes and new nakshathras inspite of all

> > > > > the ''NEW

> > > > > theories'' we are having at the moment.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1)Can we imagine VIOLET amsha within WHITE light

> > > > > relating back to

> > > > > VIOLET Colour as a WHOLE.Similarly we have 12 Rashis

> > > > > and within

> > > > > those Rashis there are again tattwa principles

> > > > > relating back to

> > > > > Individual Rashis.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2)Rashi Chakra and planetary dispositions are the

> > > > > only patterns that

> > > > > are ''VISIBLE'' or in other words physically

> > > > > manifested.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3)Amsha sambandhas are subtle currents through which

> > > > > planets are

> > > > > relating to various RASHIS within RASHI CHAKRA which

> > > > > CANNOT be

> > > > > physically FELT or VISIBLE.For eg NavaPranas as in

> > > > > navamsha

> > > > > sambandha.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4)Some of us do repeat like parrot,every now and

> > > > > then - Rashi is

> > > > > Physical ..Rashi is physical..Rashi is physical on

> > > > > one hand and keep

> > > > > on treating and analysing Varga sambandhas as

> > > > > seperate charts with

> > > > > PHYSICAL and GROSS PRINCIPLES - outside Rashi

> > > > > chakra!!.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vargas are found through a single ''physical

> > > > > longitude'' and those

> > > > > relations do not have further longitudes!!!.

> > > > >

> > > > > Varga sambandha is not ahowing any Physical

> > > > > disposition which one

> > > > > can see as in ASPECT or PLACEMENT.Those are subtle

> > > > > connections

> > > > > between Rashi tattwas.

> > > > >

> > > > > If it is contradicting with the understanding of

> > > > > learned

> > > > > souls,kindly forgive.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pls share your views

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ________

> > > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > > http://search./search?

> > > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > > >

June 9, 2007

Dear Pradeep,

I think most jyotishes want only the truth and techniques which can be proven to

work time and again beyond belief or bias. This is why I spend time in research

so that I can tease out techniques and significations which speak for themselves

and stand up to further re testing, rather than rely upon one individual way of

interpretation.

I also think that even ancient astrologers were in disagreement about various

findings, and this is why we have such variety of expression with regard to some

techniques.

As you say we can differ in views but respect another person's right to have

them without needless hassle.

I think your usage of amsas is logical and clearly you have read widely enough

literature to support that view.

It would be good to have your views on the charts, and if anyone is interested

then I will send o them also.

Best wishes

M

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:13 PM

Re: Why Graha drishti is impossible -Ms.Margaret