Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 please respect each other despite heated debates. it is very obvious that some people here have been reading the shastras word for word and really understand the nature of this divine science. the countless attacks on people and the subjugating manner some people display here is irrephrehensible and we need take take steps to insure that heated debates do not get out of hand. sincerely, __________ Raja G. Gursahani *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA) *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Dear Raja / members, Without Prejudice Well forums are meant for opinion sharing. Though it may look like fierce debate - but it never affects personal relationship amongst participating members or their astro perspective, as long as conversation is not undertaken in abusive language. Irrespective of the subject or content under discussion, members may ask questions (may sound unpleasant - if they do not to individual perspective) but are not necessarily meant to hurt the participants. So it is equally important for members to restrain from politicising, navigate members with prejudiced interpretation and/or use of abusive language. Person agreeing to other's opinion - need not be friend; and vice versa is also true. And ideally, we expect members to put forth their honest opinion. The opinion or facts may be bitter - so are the entire jyotish subject. it often fails to deliver - even in the hands of experts. So ideally, each jyotishi is mentally tuned for such failures of his application and also with the fact that - all need not agree with his perceptions. But as long as they are honest to themselves for their pursuance, they will always command respect from the audience. Like any other applied knowledge, members may ask for case studies- of course in polite manner; and it is understood that respondant may do that - when he finds time. So asking for application does not mean to foul playing or pressure tactics. Yes - few members may be engaged in serious discussions and case studies may be their next step (as Pradeep mentioned) - no one has pushed him for immediate submission. Please retrain from prejudiced interpretation of the contents of the thread. Coming back to thread - majority of memebers (including me) have shown their willingness to accept any interpretation, as long as they see it working. so what is the conflict? and finally - who is compentet to be the judge for truthfulness. it is only the time, which proves and essentially means its predictive applications. I raised few issues on the thread - a. what is the opinion of Shri KN Rao on navamsa / D chart interpretation? b. I quoted reference to kalyan varma's reference to aspects in D charts (subsequent mail - I quoted Satyacharya and Deva Keralam) c. If the best of the known scholars have made mistake, then can we see the correct version working with case studies? d. System Astrology, Krushna Ashtakavarga System (and KP theory - which I forgot to add) have no shloka reference, but the propounders have proved their points with application on 1000s of case studies Of course, each member has choice to ignore the questions, but each member has right to ask them as well. But moral policing can not be done on whims / fancies or say prejudices. So far, nothing has affected the decorum of the forum, except the use of foul language. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " Men who never get carried away should be. " ************************************************ rajagursahani Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:16:21 -0700 yes group members please respect each other despite heated debates. it is very obvious that some people here have been reading the shastras word for word and really understand the nature of this divine science. the countless attacks on people and the subjugating manner some people display here is irrephrehensible and we need take take steps to insure that heated debates do not get out of hand. sincerely, ________ Raja G. Gursahani *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA) *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Namaste Prafulla A wonderful post. Regarding some of the issues that you have raised, I have the following to say from experience: I raised few issues on the thread - a. what is the opinion of Shri KN Rao on navamsa / D chart interpretation? I followed his Karakamsha method in determining the start of profession and it works very well. He uses it in the Rashi chart and not in the Navamsha. Secondly, Sri K. N. Rao and the legendary Astrologer of Solan in Himachal Pradesh, have suggested using Navamsa and Rashi linkages for determination of career. The idea is- that we take the stronger of Moon or Lagna and take the 10th house from it. We check the lord of the navamsha where the Rashi 10th house lord is placed. This lord's position and character sheds light into the person's career. The same idea has been given in Phaldeepika (I follow Sri Gopesh Kumar Ojha's Hindi commentary). I guess we can use the other amshas in the same manner. However, that does not discount the usage of the amshas as separate charts. As I already said, higher frequencies of light changes planetary positions and may be represented by the amshas. It may be so a separate chart analysis of amshas reveal a completely different aspect of a Human Being. I had a major discussion with Sri Pradeep long time back regarding the same. There is a possibility of the amshas representing the Panchakoshas. If you want I can forward the same to you. b. I quoted reference to kalyan varma's reference to aspects in D charts (subsequent mail - I quoted Satyacharya and Deva Keralam) Yes, I have seen such reference and we need to know how it applies and what should we gather from such aspects. c. If the best of the known scholars have made mistake, then can we see the correct version working with case studies? Instead of debating endlessly, it would be the most prudent approach. d. System Astrology, Krushna Ashtakavarga System (and KP theory - which I forgot to add) have no shloka reference, but the propounders have proved their points with application on 1000s of case studies Let me share something about KAS (Krushna Ashtakavarga System). I had posted a puzzle about my second cousin and it was only Sri Ash who predicted correctly using KAS. Again during the Indian Idol contest someone posted one of the contestants data. Sri Ash again predicted correctly that Karunya wouldn't win. Being a wonderful and intelligent person that he is, he remains humble, kind, forever ready to help and open to all. Methods of KAS and KP theory work. This also confirms my contention that many astrological works are hidden with families and it was Sri Krushna's luck that it got revealed to him by his Guru. Same could have been the case with Sri Krishnamurthy who could have stumbled upon this knowledge through a hidden Nadi system. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 7/7/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Raja / members, > > Without Prejudice > > Well forums are meant for opinion sharing. Though it may look like fierce > debate - but it never affects personal relationship amongst participating > members or their astro perspective, as long as conversation is not > undertaken in abusive language. > > Irrespective of the subject or content under discussion, members may ask > questions (may sound unpleasant - if they do not to individual > perspective) but are not necessarily meant to hurt the participants. So it > is equally important for members to restrain from politicising, navigate > members with prejudiced interpretation and/or use of abusive language. > > Person agreeing to other's opinion - need not be friend; and vice versa is > also true. And ideally, we expect members to put forth their honest opinion. > The opinion or facts may be bitter - so are the entire jyotish subject. it > often fails to deliver - even in the hands of experts. So ideally, each > jyotishi is mentally tuned for such failures of his application and also > with the fact that - all need not agree with his perceptions. But as long as > they are honest to themselves for their pursuance, they will always command > respect from the audience. > > Like any other applied knowledge, members may ask for case studies- of > course in polite manner; and it is understood that respondant may do that - > when he finds time. So asking for application does not mean to foul playing > or pressure tactics. > > Yes - few members may be engaged in serious discussions and case studies > may be their next step (as Pradeep mentioned) - no one has pushed him for > immediate submission. > > Please retrain from prejudiced interpretation of the contents of the > thread. Coming back to thread - majority of memebers (including me) have > shown their willingness to accept any interpretation, as long as they see it > working. so what is the conflict? and finally - who is compentet to be the > judge for truthfulness. it is only the time, which proves and essentially > means its predictive applications. > > I raised few issues on the thread - > a. what is the opinion of Shri KN Rao on navamsa / D chart interpretation? > b. I quoted reference to kalyan varma's reference to aspects in D charts > (subsequent mail - I quoted Satyacharya and Deva Keralam) > c. If the best of the known scholars have made mistake, then can we see > the correct version working with case studies? > d. System Astrology, Krushna Ashtakavarga System (and KP theory - which I > forgot to add) have no shloka reference, but the propounders have proved > their points with application on 1000s of case studies > > Of course, each member has choice to ignore the questions, but each member > has right to ask them as well. But moral policing can not be done on whims / > fancies or say prejudices. So far, nothing has affected the decorum of the > forum, except the use of foul language. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " Men who never get carried away should be. " > ************************************************ > > > rajagursahani <rajagursahani%40gmail.com> > Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:16:21 -0700 > <%40> > yes group members > please respect each other despite heated debates. it is very obvious that > some people here have been reading the shastras word for word and really > understand the nature of this divine science. the countless attacks on > people and the subjugating manner some people display here is > irrephrehensible and we need take take steps to insure that heated debates > do not get out of hand. > > sincerely, > > ________ > > Raja G. Gursahani > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA) > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Dear Bharat, I must extend compliements to you for an excellent and rationaliized opinion. Please read my reply underneath your notes / observations. > Regarding some of the issues that you have raised, I have the following to > say from experience: > > I raised few issues on the thread - > a. what is the opinion of Shri KN Rao on navamsa / D chart interpretation? > I followed his Karakamsha method in determining the start of profession and > it works very well. He uses it in the Rashi chart and not in the Navamsha. > Secondly, Sri K. N. Rao and the legendary Astrologer of Solan in Himachal > Pradesh, have suggested using Navamsa and Rashi linkages for determination > of career. The idea is- that we take the stronger of Moon or Lagna and take > the 10th house from it. We check the lord of the navamsha where the Rashi > 10th house lord is placed. This lord's position and character sheds light > into the person's career. The same idea has been given in Phaldeepika (I > follow Sri Gopesh Kumar Ojha's Hindi commentary). [Prafulla] On this thread, I was commenting on two major issues - firstly - if there is seperate Navamsa chart and secondly - if they are read like rasi chakra (implying the relevance of conjunction and aspects etc). My first contention was the exhibition of its use by few major jyotish personalities (like Late Shri BV Raman, late shri Santhanam, Shri CS Patel, Shri KN Rao, Shri Sanjay Rath, Shri VK Choudhry etc) - to whom I have read - and except Late Shri Raman and Shri CS Patel - I had opportunity to interact on forum / in person. My simple contention is that - they have demonstrated the use of D9 charts (so chart / chakra exist !!) and it can be read like rasi chart to an extent (of course many of interpretation rules may vary). and They have demonstrated in their many books, articles, forums, workshops and / or web. I can not believe that their collective wisdom can misss such basic (!!) issues. Unlike many of members, I have relied on their books due to my sanskrit language constraint. Coming to Shri KN Rao's view - I observed Shri Pradeep mentioning his experiences with him in person on many ocassions; and I presumed - he must have sought his clarifications through a academic debate. So I requested to know from Pradeep his views, if he might share. But as I have read his books from time to time, there are enough examples, where Shri Rao has referred D charts (so D charts exist) and used as rasi chart for events. I had opportunity to interact closely with the paramapara jyotishi (family in panchang making / jyotish for past 570 years) - from whom, Late shri hardeo Sharma have picked many jyotish lessons / clues. Even they use D charts and use it very thoroughly. So perhaps, some of the knowledge is missing in sages' scripts - but available / preserved with traditionalists. > > I guess we can use the other amshas in the same manner. However, that does > not discount the usage of the amshas as separate charts. As I already said, > higher frequencies of light changes planetary positions and may be > represented by the amshas. It may be so a separate chart analysis of amshas > reveal a completely different aspect of a Human Being. I had a major > discussion with Sri Pradeep long time back regarding the same. There is a > possibility of the amshas representing the Panchakoshas. If you want I can > forward the same to you. > [Prafulla] I will love to read any such conversation and learn from it. > > b. I quoted reference to kalyan varma's reference to aspects in D charts > (subsequent mail - I quoted Satyacharya and Deva Keralam) > Yes, I have seen such reference and we need to know how it applies and what > should we gather from such aspects. > > [Prafulla] well, it might be my assumption - but as most scholars say from time to time, that sages did not write detailed commentaries and have coded the secrets in very concise way. Perhaps, they expected their followers to do the deductive logic and apply, if identical parameters are available. Unfortunately, each of such sages had difference of opinion (including Parashar) - so perhaps, yuga or something else determined their application. I do not personally, presume kalyan Varma to leave such a big hole for partial aspects - when throughout jyotish literature, they have not been demonstrated exhaustively, except a reference. Even if partial aspects are applicable, then opposition of planets do not fall in the partial aspects perview. and more so - if such references are available elsewhere also. Well - Late Santhanam and Shri CS Patel have demonstarted the use of D9 in their books quite exhaustively; so is its reference in Dhruv Nadi. and of course kalyan Varma. Since the interpretation of D charts like rasi have been elaboratedly discussed by various elegant authors with case studies, I presume - if we read them, we may pick the tricks. Those books must be a comprehensive workshop in itself. > c. If the best of the known scholars have made mistake, then can we see the > correct version working with case studies? > Instead of debating endlessly, it would be the most prudent approach. > [Prafulla] yes, that is what exactly - I believe, all agree to. Now the onus is on the fellow scholars, who may have contrary opinion to it. Perhaps, that may require predictive application / model as well. and I am sure, with their knowledge - we will all benefit with the predictive demonstration (both ways - as earlier / popular approach as wrong one; and the correct one) on decent samples. If it happens, I am certainly open to understand and experiment that. > > d. System Astrology, Krushna Ashtakavarga System (and KP theory - which I > forgot to add) have no shloka reference, but the propounders have proved > their points with application on 1000s of case studies > Let me share something about KAS (Krushna Ashtakavarga System). I had posted > a puzzle about my second cousin and it was only Sri Ash who predicted > correctly using KAS. Again during the Indian Idol contest someone posted one > of the contestants data. Sri Ash again predicted correctly that Karunya > wouldn't win. Being a wonderful and intelligent person that he is, he > remains humble, kind, forever ready to help and open to all. > > > Methods of KAS and KP theory work. This also confirms my contention that > many astrological works are hidden with families and it was Sri Krushna's > luck that it got revealed to him by his Guru. Same could have been the case > with Sri Krishnamurthy who could have stumbled upon this knowledge through a > hidden Nadi system. > [Prafulla] yes - all three have demonstrated wonderful applications over huge sample size. They have not clutched students / scholars into endless (contradictions / overriders etc) shloka business. and I whole heartedly acknowledge their approach and commitment. In their model, a person without the knowledge of sanskrit, can also arrive at reasonable predictive accuracy (which is depleting in internet jyotish). of course, there may be some preserved astrological works, but still credit goes to them for presenting in utmost scientific mode (no unnecessary sages references, language barriers and so on). I am sincerely happy to know your wonderful experience with Ash and KAS. Ash is really a wonderful astrologer with a scientific / rationalized application. He is one of the true scholar, who believes in demonstrating its application. Of course, a scholar may require good predictive skills for that (which he possesses immensely), without which such exercise is not possible. Thanks for bearing with my long mail. regards / Prafulla > > On 7/7/07, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > > > Dear Raja / members, > > > > Without Prejudice > > > > Well forums are meant for opinion sharing. Though it may look like fierce > > debate - but it never affects personal relationship amongst participating > > members or their astro perspective, as long as conversation is not > > undertaken in abusive language. > > > > Irrespective of the subject or content under discussion, members may ask > > questions (may sound unpleasant - if they do not to individual > > perspective) but are not necessarily meant to hurt the participants. So it > > is equally important for members to restrain from politicising, navigate > > members with prejudiced interpretation and/or use of abusive language. > > > > Person agreeing to other's opinion - need not be friend; and vice versa is > > also true. And ideally, we expect members to put forth their honest opinion. > > The opinion or facts may be bitter - so are the entire jyotish subject. it > > often fails to deliver - even in the hands of experts. So ideally, each > > jyotishi is mentally tuned for such failures of his application and also > > with the fact that - all need not agree with his perceptions. But as long as > > they are honest to themselves for their pursuance, they will always command > > respect from the audience. > > > > Like any other applied knowledge, members may ask for case studies- of > > course in polite manner; and it is understood that respondant may do that - > > when he finds time. So asking for application does not mean to foul playing > > or pressure tactics. > > > > Yes - few members may be engaged in serious discussions and case studies > > may be their next step (as Pradeep mentioned) - no one has pushed him for > > immediate submission. > > > > Please retrain from prejudiced interpretation of the contents of the > > thread. Coming back to thread - majority of memebers (including me) have > > shown their willingness to accept any interpretation, as long as they see it > > working. so what is the conflict? and finally - who is compentet to be the > > judge for truthfulness. it is only the time, which proves and essentially > > means its predictive applications. > > > > I raised few issues on the thread - > > a. what is the opinion of Shri KN Rao on navamsa / D chart interpretation? > > b. I quoted reference to kalyan varma's reference to aspects in D charts > > (subsequent mail - I quoted Satyacharya and Deva Keralam) > > c. If the best of the known scholars have made mistake, then can we see > > the correct version working with case studies? > > d. System Astrology, Krushna Ashtakavarga System (and KP theory - which I > > forgot to add) have no shloka reference, but the propounders have proved > > their points with application on 1000s of case studies > > > > Of course, each member has choice to ignore the questions, but each member > > has right to ask them as well. But moral policing can not be done on whims / > > fancies or say prejudices. So far, nothing has affected the decorum of the > > forum, except the use of foul language. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > " Men who never get carried away should be. " > > ************************************************ > > > > > > rajagursahani <rajagursahani%40gmail.com> > > Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:16:21 -0700 > > <%40> > > yes group members > > please respect each other despite heated debates. it is very obvious that > > some people here have been reading the shastras word for word and really > > understand the nature of this divine science. the countless attacks on > > people and the subjugating manner some people display here is > > irrephrehensible and we need take take steps to insure that heated debates > > do not get out of hand. > > > > sincerely, > > > > ________ > > > > Raja G. Gursahani > > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA) > > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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