Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear all, If twins are born and if one does not see the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. How does one judge the difference then,in above case ? The fast moving planets like Moon etc. may effect change in the Navamsha position to correspond the reflected apparent change in their respective lifestyles, when they grow up. But how does one check this only with the Rashi chart ? regards, Bhaskar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Sri Bhaskar, It will be impossible to explain the twins' horoscopes without using Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives them). For the benefit of the members, I can point everyone to Sri PVR Narasimha Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click on " Twins with a difference " , where he gave the practical case study on how to analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. Please note that I am neither his student nor his follower nor supporter. In the past I debated with him in this group on other matters. I just value people where they are strong. Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views on this subject, please go through the archives in this group, that contain debate between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very interesting debate too. PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. Best reagards, Satya S Kolachina , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Dear all, > > If twins are born and if one does not see > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, > then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. > > How does one judge the difference then,in > above case ? > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > may effect change in the Navamsha > position to correspond the reflected apparent > change in their respective lifestyles, > when they grow up. > > But how does one check this only with the > Rashi chart ? > > regards, > Bhaskar. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Sri Bhaskar, In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a question in his articles (I guess the question is to other astrologers) how can one analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of people born in the month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are posited in just one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not exactly remember; but one of them), without using divisional charts; since both Rahu and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this is the max number of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. I would pose the same question to all those supporters of AMSHA theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is highly inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory supporters or Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look into navamsa and other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. There should be some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in classics, we might have lost such subtle points in the past years. Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even analyze a single horoscope in this condition. Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA concept. It is nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we anyway have to consider for understanding the strenght of the bhava; but not insolation; it shd be considered along with the divisional charts. Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa charts adds to its fulfillment. Best regards, Satya S Kolachina , " Satya Sai Kolachina " <skolachi wrote: > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' horoscopes without using > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives them). For the > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to Sri PVR Narasimha > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click on " Twins with a > difference " , where he gave the practical case study on how to > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his follower nor > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this group on other > matters. I just value people where they are strong. > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views on this subject, > please go through the archives in this group, that contain debate > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very interesting debate too. > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > Best reagards, > Satya S Kolachina > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, > > then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > above case ? > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > when they grow up. > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > Rashi chart ? > > > > regards, > > Bhaskar. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Satya , I would use a prasna chart alongwith a Rashi chart . Talking about twin births , or births which are close in time or close due to time space compensation can be differentiated with various means the prasna chart being one such method . For example , many people only bring their rashi chart which does not even have planetary degrees . Moon nakshatra given is a luxury . Stilll , many traditional astrologers do a wonderful job of prediction from this meagre details. I accept this chart will be same for all people born in that two hour span almost in 500 km radius from the birth place . Still only one has come to the astrologer at the given time . Can that time not be used for answering the question , taking broad help of the natal chart ? Regards , Anand A. K. Ghurye Mobile : 9820 489 416 Phone : 2685 5496 email : hmm_aha --\ ----- § Training § Development § Relationships § Synectics email : hmm_aha Home page : growthanddevelopment http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Ghurye1.html http://anandghurye.blogspot.com/ --\ ------ - Satya Sai Kolachina Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:06 AM Re: two birth within 2 Minutes Dear Sri Bhaskar, It will be impossible to explain the twins' horoscopes without using Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives them). For the benefit of the members, I can point everyone to Sri PVR Narasimha Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click on " Twins with a difference " , where he gave the practical case study on how to analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. Please note that I am neither his student nor his follower nor supporter. In the past I debated with him in this group on other matters. I just value people where they are strong. Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views on this subject, please go through the archives in this group, that contain debate between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very interesting debate too. PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. Best reagards, Satya S Kolachina , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Dear all, > > If twins are born and if one does not see > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, > then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. > > How does one judge the difference then,in > above case ? > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > may effect change in the Navamsha > position to correspond the reflected apparent > change in their respective lifestyles, > when they grow up. > > But how does one check this only with the > Rashi chart ? > > regards, > Bhaskar. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Satyaji, Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if the time changed by a couple of minutes all their predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? Satish --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > question in his > articles (I guess the question is to other > astrologers) how can one > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > people born in the > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > posited in just > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > exactly remember; > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > since both Rahu > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > is the max number > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > I would pose the same question to all those > supporters of AMSHA > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > highly > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > supporters or > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > into navamsa and > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > There should be > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > classics, we might > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > analyze a > single horoscope in this condition. > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > concept. It is > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > anyway have to > consider for understanding the strenght of the > bhava; but not > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > divisional charts. > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > charts adds to > its fulfillment. > > Best regards, > Satya S Kolachina > > > , " Satya Sai > Kolachina " > <skolachi wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > horoscopes without > using > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > them). For the > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > Sri PVR Narasimha > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > on " Twins with a > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > study on how to > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > follower nor > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > group on other > > matters. I just value people where they are > strong. > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > on this subject, > > please go through the archives in this group, that > contain debate > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > interesting debate > too. > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > Best reagards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > , " Bhaskar " > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > Charts, > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > charts. > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > above case ? > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > regards, > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Sri Satish, (a) Your point is not an answer to the question raised here. At least I do not consider this as an answer from people who look for pramaanas and tarka. How do you analyze 1000s of horoscopes (people leading different lives in different parts of the world) all having 8 planets in one rasi? (b) It is true and as insisted by many astrologers including Sri KN Rao that divisional charts to the order of D-20, D-24 etc cannot be used without having correct birth time. © Again Sri KN Rao insisted that one should try to rectify the birth time before even attempting to analyze the horscope. Use of Navamsa charts and other divisional charts is not a new concept; it has been there at least to the best of our knowledge, from the 19th century, at least in the worst case. We do not even know the way some old astrologers analyzed the horoscopes; there are many, many, many secrets of astrology lost; that is what people should realize atleast now, instead of wasting thousands of hours of our valuable lifetime. From the experiences of people like Sri KN Rao, Sri DR BV Raman, and all other great astrologers, we shd realize that what we are left with in the form of classics, is only part-correct and part-corrupt sastras. That is the reason wise astrologers like Sri KN Rao are suggesting us to experiment and use the principles from classics; not use them blindly. If we do not listen to such valuable guidance from elders like Sri KN Rao, who has the fortune of knowing some subtle secrets (not found in any classics that we are talking here) from his association with great mahatmas, then we are really in ignorance. I think I am very clear in my opinion. Best regards, Satya S Kolachina , SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: > > Satyaji, > > Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers > have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes > everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if > the time changed by a couple of minutes all their > predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? > > Satish > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > > question in his > > articles (I guess the question is to other > > astrologers) how can one > > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > > people born in the > > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > > posited in just > > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > > exactly remember; > > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > > since both Rahu > > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > > is the max number > > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > > > I would pose the same question to all those > > supporters of AMSHA > > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > > highly > > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > > supporters or > > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > > into navamsa and > > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > > There should be > > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > > classics, we might > > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > > analyze a > > single horoscope in this condition. > > > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > > concept. It is > > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > > anyway have to > > consider for understanding the strenght of the > > bhava; but not > > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > > divisional charts. > > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > > charts adds to > > its fulfillment. > > > > Best regards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > , " Satya Sai > > Kolachina " > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > horoscopes without > > using > > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > them). For the > > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > > Sri PVR Narasimha > > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > > on " Twins with a > > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > > study on how to > > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > follower nor > > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > group on other > > > matters. I just value people where they are > > strong. > > > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > > on this subject, > > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > contain debate > > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > interesting debate > > too. > > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > > > Best reagards, > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > > Charts, > > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > > charts. > > > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > > above case ? > > > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ _______________ > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hello, On the VA list there was similar debate a couple of years back and sreenadh, vaijaydas PVR, RR and panditji. I am copying some of the mails from Panditji about the D-chart debate. Those interested in the entire thread can go to VA list and look for messages around Nov 1-5,2005. --------------------- Namaste Sreenadh, I agree when you say Vargas, NOT varga charts. I do not think there are separate charts, there are only vargas or amshas. The justification given to use of divisions as separate charts in the form of examples is all after the fact, rear view mirror jyotish. As people increase the number of parameters they use,start using dashas in vargas, it is not surprising to see any event in any chart. If one thinks logically, they will realize that with these techniques, every graha will qualify to give every possible result, ofcourse the event has to be known before hand. If one is predicting, try using these myriads of parameters and try to predict and you will soon see that it does not work. Someone had given an analogy of parent and child to say that child comes from parent but has a separate existence. This is a faulty analogy, as even after parent dies the child lives on. But here if the rashi chart dies so do all the divisions.Divisions have no separate existence, it is impossible.If you only think logically and not get swayed and awed by the amout of technical terms thrown your way, you will see through this as well. If you are a new student and think that you can not predict using all these techniques. Do not blame it on your inexperience, beleive me ,the so called gurus who use these techniques can not predict it consistently either. .... -------------------------- Namaste Rohiniranjan, Yes one can argue that. I have thought a bit about twins and I feel that we are going too much gung ho trying to explain everything under the sky with this tool called jyotish. Some even equate it to superscience and so are compelled to explain everything. In this pursuit we are inventing new principles and are getting caught in a whiirlpool. May be like Abhimanyu going into chakravyuva, having no clue how to get out of it. To me twins are a minute percentage of population and from a practical standpoint , I am not willing to throw out things that work and there is evidence of them working just to accomodate something that can not be explained. I am sure you are well aware that all these new theories propagated as new age awakening of jyotish can not explain twins either, so they go on formulating new escape routes to get out of quandry they find themselves in. So , if the twins have same navansha, their spouses should be very similar and all the marital patterns should be same. As this is not found in practice, they go on inventing new parameters to explain away things. Just because we can not explain or formulate unified field theory that explains everything, we do not throw away the things that work, like newton's laws are not thrown out. .... ----------------------- Namaste Sreenadh, There are some in the D-chart campaign that are sincere and are genuine in their attempts, like narasimha. Many are just followers, and some are just trumpet blowers. With the medium of internet this is spreading like wildfire with theories not well grounded and speculations being treated as the next thing since sliced bread. People who are studying it for a few months then go on riling about stuff they have no good understanding of, quoting articles they read on the internet from their virtual gurus. Ofcourse one can beleive in anything they want and one is entitled to their own opinions. Fortunately, one is not entitled to their own facts. .... --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > horoscopes without using > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > them). For the > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to Sri > PVR Narasimha > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click on > " Twins with a > difference " , where he gave the practical case study > on how to > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > follower nor > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > group on other > matters. I just value people where they are strong. > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views on > this subject, > please go through the archives in this group, that > contain debate > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > interesting debate too. > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > Best reagards, > Satya S Kolachina > > , " Bhaskar " ______________________________\ ____ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. http://sims./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hello, Earlier I gave a reference to a similar debate between PVR and Pradeep. I classify these debates as debates between Theorists and Practical astrologers. They lead nowhere, except we gain some knowledge in between for further testing. Using untested theory is harmful for the predictions. Satya S Kolachina , SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: > > Hello, > > On the VA list there was similar debate a couple of > years back and sreenadh, vaijaydas PVR, RR and > panditji. I am copying some of the mails from Panditji > about the D-chart debate. Those interested in the > entire thread can go to VA list and look for messages > around Nov 1-5,2005. > --------------------- > Namaste Sreenadh, > > I agree when you say Vargas, NOT varga charts. I do > not think there are separate charts, there are only > vargas or amshas. The justification given to use of > divisions as separate charts in the form of examples > is all after the fact, rear view mirror jyotish. As > people increase the number of parameters they > use,start using dashas in vargas, it is not surprising > to see any event in any chart. If one thinks > logically, they will realize that with these > techniques, every graha will qualify to give every > possible result, ofcourse the event has to be known > before hand. If one is predicting, try using these > myriads of parameters and try to predict and you will > soon see that it does not work. > > Someone had given an analogy of parent and child to > say that child comes from parent but has a separate > existence. This is a faulty analogy, as even after > parent dies the child lives on. But here if the rashi > chart dies so do all the divisions.Divisions have no > separate existence, it is impossible.If you only think > logically and not get swayed and awed by the amout of > technical terms thrown your way, you will see through > this as well. > > If you are a new student and think that you can not > predict using all these techniques. Do not blame it on > your inexperience, beleive me ,the so called gurus who > use these techniques can not predict it consistently > either. > > ... > -------------------------- > Namaste Rohiniranjan, > > Yes one can argue that. I have thought a bit about > twins and I feel that we are going too much gung ho > trying to explain everything under the sky with this > tool called jyotish. Some even equate it to > superscience and so are compelled to explain > everything. In this pursuit we are inventing new > principles and are getting caught in a whiirlpool. May > be like Abhimanyu going into chakravyuva, having no > clue how to get out of it. > > To me twins are a minute percentage of population and > from a practical standpoint , I am not willing to > throw out things that work and there is evidence of > them working just to accomodate something that can not > be explained. I am sure you are well aware that all > these new theories propagated as new age awakening of > jyotish can not explain twins either, so they go on > formulating new escape routes to get out of quandry > they find themselves in. So , if the twins have same > navansha, their spouses should be very similar and all > the marital patterns should be same. As this is not > found in practice, they go on inventing new parameters > to explain away things. > > Just because we can not explain or formulate unified > field theory that explains everything, we do not throw > away the things that work, like newton's laws are not > thrown out. > ... > ----------------------- > Namaste Sreenadh, > > There are some in the D-chart campaign that are > sincere and are genuine in their attempts, like > narasimha. Many are just followers, and some are just > trumpet blowers. With the medium of internet this is > spreading like wildfire with theories not well > grounded and speculations being treated as the next > thing since sliced bread. People who are studying it > for a few months then go on riling about stuff they > have no good understanding of, quoting articles they > read on the internet from their virtual gurus. > Ofcourse one can beleive in anything they want and one > is entitled to their own opinions. Fortunately, one is > not entitled to their own facts. > > ... > > > > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > horoscopes without using > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > them). For the > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to Sri > > PVR Narasimha > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click on > > " Twins with a > > difference " , where he gave the practical case study > > on how to > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > follower nor > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > group on other > > matters. I just value people where they are strong. > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views on > > this subject, > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > contain debate > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > interesting debate too. > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > Best reagards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > > > ___________________ _______________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. > http://sims./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Satya ji Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read from the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in this particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't think so. Now in similar lines,if we check we may be able to find a date on which all the planets are occuppying the same navamsha or atleast majority of planets.Then whatwill do we in those cases. We have yogas like gola yoga/pravrajya yogas,kemadruma yogas etc.We have to see the amshas as we see in other charts. Now regarding twins ,Satish ji is right.It is not at all easy to measure time of birth,even if one is present inside the labour room.Thus most of the times there is an error.Some astrologers who are doing predictions based on ''correct time'',using some higher ''divsional charts'' (with bhavas) is satisfying themselves ,using their pet theories.Even rectification methods are not properly understood. Now is there any way out?Yes not using charts but higher divisionals.Nadi amshas like Chandrakala nadi will hold finer destiny pointers.But who is having correct time and correct knowledge.Thorugh imaginary aspects in divsional charts are proving nothing,in these higher divisionals. As Satish ji has told,within seconds,boundary case divisonal lagnas changes,and if we use houses and explain,then we are not serious about astrology.There are many secrets using amshas,not charts-but if we get satisfied with assumptions ,then how will we proceed. No disrespect meant. Regarding secrets lost,dashadhyayi manuscript is available as Thaliyola(leaf) grantha. Regds Pradeep , " Satya Sai Kolachina " <skolachi wrote: > > Dear Sri Satish, > (a) Your point is not an answer to the question raised here. At > least I do not consider this as an answer from people who look for > pramaanas and tarka. How do you analyze 1000s of horoscopes (people > leading different lives in different parts of the world) all having > 8 planets in one rasi? > (b) It is true and as insisted by many astrologers including Sri KN > Rao that divisional charts to the order of D-20, D-24 etc cannot be > used without having correct birth time. > © Again Sri KN Rao insisted that one should try to rectify the > birth time before even attempting to analyze the horscope. > > Use of Navamsa charts and other divisional charts is not a new > concept; it has been there at least to the best of our knowledge, > from the 19th century, at least in the worst case. We do not even > know the way some old astrologers analyzed the horoscopes; there are > many, many, many secrets of astrology lost; that is what people > should realize atleast now, instead of wasting thousands of hours of > our valuable lifetime. From the experiences of people like Sri KN > Rao, Sri DR BV Raman, and all other great astrologers, we shd > realize that what we are left with in the form of classics, is only > part-correct and part-corrupt sastras. That is the reason wise > astrologers like Sri KN Rao are suggesting us to experiment and use > the principles from classics; not use them blindly. If we do not > listen to such valuable guidance from elders like Sri KN Rao, who > has the fortune of knowing some subtle secrets (not found in any > classics that we are talking here) from his association with great > mahatmas, then we are really in ignorance. > > I think I am very clear in my opinion. > > Best regards, > Satya S Kolachina > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > Satyaji, > > > > Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers > > have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes > > everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if > > the time changed by a couple of minutes all their > > predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? > > > > Satish > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > > > question in his > > > articles (I guess the question is to other > > > astrologers) how can one > > > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > > > people born in the > > > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > > > posited in just > > > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > > > exactly remember; > > > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > > > since both Rahu > > > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > > > is the max number > > > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > > > > > I would pose the same question to all those > > > supporters of AMSHA > > > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > > > highly > > > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > > > supporters or > > > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > > > into navamsa and > > > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > > > There should be > > > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > > > classics, we might > > > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > > > > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > > > analyze a > > > single horoscope in this condition. > > > > > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > > > concept. It is > > > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > > > anyway have to > > > consider for understanding the strenght of the > > > bhava; but not > > > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > > > divisional charts. > > > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > > > charts adds to > > > its fulfillment. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > , " Satya Sai > > > Kolachina " > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > > horoscopes without > > > using > > > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > > them). For the > > > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > > > Sri PVR Narasimha > > > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > > > on " Twins with a > > > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > > > study on how to > > > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > > follower nor > > > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > > group on other > > > > matters. I just value people where they are > > > strong. > > > > > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > > > on this subject, > > > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > > contain debate > > > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > > interesting debate > > > too. > > > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > > > > > Best reagards, > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > > > Charts, > > > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > > > above case ? > > > > > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > _______________ > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Sri Pradeep, You Said: <Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read from the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in this particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't think so.> This does not mean rasi chart is the end-of it and not to see the amsa charts at all. In fact he said many times to the contrary, through his articles and books. Yes, one has to be proficient to read the Rasi chart, since that is the basis. But he gave weights to different amsha charts, which I quoted in one my earlier messages. According to your proposition, amsha charts should not even be consulted. If such is the case, I do not expect Sri KN Rao to consult amsha charts at all. But that is not the case. When classified the different amsa charts with weightages, imagine how much of research he could have done on them applying on hundreds if not thousands of horoscopes, since that is his style as I noted. In the most recent reference I gave today in an earlier message, he clearly talks about 10th house from dasamsa lagna in the dasamsa chart, after he talks about the rasi chart. There is a subtle difference between the way you are expressing as what I am proposing, than actually what I am explaining. I am saying that we should consult the amsa charts along with consulting rasi charts and navamsa dispositor strength back in the rasi chart, which is what I am terming as composite approach. You are expressing as if I am proposing to use amsa charts separately. If that is the view you are getting, then please correct the same. I think this is a never ending discussion. I only re-entered into it, when I saw Sri Satish using an inacceptable phrase like 'bottom of muddy waters', for which he never appeared to have noted his mistake even after pointing out. An educated person practicing Vedic astrology, is not expected to use such words about those that do not agree to his viewpoint. Best regards, Satya Sai Kolachina , " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Satya ji > > Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read from > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in this > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't think > so. > > Now in similar lines,if we check we may be able to find a date on > which all the planets are occuppying the same navamsha or atleast > majority of planets.Then whatwill do we in those cases. > > We have yogas like gola yoga/pravrajya yogas,kemadruma yogas etc.We > have to see the amshas as we see in other charts. > > Now regarding twins ,Satish ji is right.It is not at all easy to > measure time of birth,even if one is present inside the labour > room.Thus most of the times there is an error.Some astrologers who > are doing predictions based on ''correct time'',using some > higher ''divsional charts'' (with bhavas) is satisfying > themselves ,using their pet theories.Even rectification methods are > not properly understood. > > Now is there any way out?Yes not using charts but higher > divisionals.Nadi amshas like Chandrakala nadi will hold finer destiny > pointers.But who is having correct time and correct knowledge.Thorugh > imaginary aspects in divsional charts are proving nothing,in these > higher divisionals. > > As Satish ji has told,within seconds,boundary case divisonal lagnas > changes,and if we use houses and explain,then we are not serious > about astrology.There are many secrets using amshas,not charts-but if > we get satisfied with assumptions ,then how will we proceed. > > No disrespect meant. > Regarding secrets lost,dashadhyayi manuscript is available as > Thaliyola(leaf) grantha. > > Regds > Pradeep > , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Satish, > > (a) Your point is not an answer to the question raised here. At > > least I do not consider this as an answer from people who look for > > pramaanas and tarka. How do you analyze 1000s of horoscopes (people > > leading different lives in different parts of the world) all having > > 8 planets in one rasi? > > (b) It is true and as insisted by many astrologers including Sri KN > > Rao that divisional charts to the order of D-20, D-24 etc cannot be > > used without having correct birth time. > > © Again Sri KN Rao insisted that one should try to rectify the > > birth time before even attempting to analyze the horscope. > > > > Use of Navamsa charts and other divisional charts is not a new > > concept; it has been there at least to the best of our knowledge, > > from the 19th century, at least in the worst case. We do not even > > know the way some old astrologers analyzed the horoscopes; there > are > > many, many, many secrets of astrology lost; that is what people > > should realize atleast now, instead of wasting thousands of hours > of > > our valuable lifetime. From the experiences of people like Sri KN > > Rao, Sri DR BV Raman, and all other great astrologers, we shd > > realize that what we are left with in the form of classics, is only > > part-correct and part-corrupt sastras. That is the reason wise > > astrologers like Sri KN Rao are suggesting us to experiment and use > > the principles from classics; not use them blindly. If we do not > > listen to such valuable guidance from elders like Sri KN Rao, who > > has the fortune of knowing some subtle secrets (not found in any > > classics that we are talking here) from his association with great > > mahatmas, then we are really in ignorance. > > > > I think I am very clear in my opinion. > > > > Best regards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > Satyaji, > > > > > > Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers > > > have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes > > > everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if > > > the time changed by a couple of minutes all their > > > predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? > > > > > > Satish > > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > > > > question in his > > > > articles (I guess the question is to other > > > > astrologers) how can one > > > > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > > > > people born in the > > > > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > > > > posited in just > > > > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > > > > exactly remember; > > > > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > > > > since both Rahu > > > > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > > > > is the max number > > > > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > > > > > > > I would pose the same question to all those > > > > supporters of AMSHA > > > > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > > > > highly > > > > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > > > > supporters or > > > > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > > > > into navamsa and > > > > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > > > > There should be > > > > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > > > > classics, we might > > > > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > > > > > > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > > > > analyze a > > > > single horoscope in this condition. > > > > > > > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > > > > concept. It is > > > > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > > > > anyway have to > > > > consider for understanding the strenght of the > > > > bhava; but not > > > > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > > > > divisional charts. > > > > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > > > > charts adds to > > > > its fulfillment. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Satya Sai > > > > Kolachina " > > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > > > horoscopes without > > > > using > > > > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > > > them). For the > > > > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > > > > Sri PVR Narasimha > > > > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > > > > on " Twins with a > > > > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > > > > study on how to > > > > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > > > follower nor > > > > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > > > group on other > > > > > matters. I just value people where they are > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > > > > on this subject, > > > > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > > > contain debate > > > > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > > > interesting debate > > > > too. > > > > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > > > > > > > Best reagards, > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > > > > Charts, > > > > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > > > > above case ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > _______________ > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > > http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Satya ji As you have seen in the case of my explanation with Late PM Chandrashekhar,amshas were used but w.r to Rashi chakra and it were showing more powerful positions. But all the deciding factors,were delienated from Rashi Chakra.Me too didn't mean,rashi chakra without amshas is an end.Amshas are important.Thus there is only a samll difference in opinion. You can see example of Gordon Brown.It was a prediction given 2 years back. The main point is ,if the dashmsha is strong(not chart),apart from rashi and other strenghts ,then results can be better.We cannot say if it was because of considering bhavas in amsha chart,that effected in result. In this respect,i will support chandrashekhar jis view.I too can demonstrate through some charts,using simple and fundamental principle that rashi chart will show enough clues and amshas from rashi will give supporting evidence.But you can claim that ,this may not have been the deciding factor!!!. What is your view on SWAMSHA explanation given by Raoji.Thus there are concerns. What is your view on Dr.Ramans ,Prashanmargas,opinion on dashadhyayi,written 800 years ago. Another thing is,with charts having non accurate data,we may aslo rectify charts to have a good placement from lagna dashamsha.On the other hand if we do not consider bhavas ,we will always get good/bad amshas ,helping us in arriving at concusions. My intention is only to make my part clear.Conclusions made by others is not in my hands and it should not be. Those who are curious can experiment.As Satish ji has said,there will be too many parameters,with some of them reduntant,ones. Regds Pradeep -- In , " Satya Sai Kolachina " <skolachi wrote: > > Dear Sri Pradeep, > > You Said: > <Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read from > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in this > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't think > so.> > > This does not mean rasi chart is the end-of it and not to see the > amsa charts at all. In fact he said many times to the contrary, > through his articles and books. > > Yes, one has to be proficient to read the Rasi chart, since that is > the basis. But he gave weights to different amsha charts, which I > quoted in one my earlier messages. According to your proposition, > amsha charts should not even be consulted. If such is the case, I do > not expect Sri KN Rao to consult amsha charts at all. But that is > not the case. When classified the different amsa charts with > weightages, imagine how much of research he could have done on them > applying on hundreds if not thousands of horoscopes, since that is > his style as I noted. > > In the most recent reference I gave today in an earlier message, he > clearly talks about 10th house from dasamsa lagna in the dasamsa > chart, after he talks about the rasi chart. There is a subtle > difference between the way you are expressing as what I am > proposing, than actually what I am explaining. I am saying that we > should consult the amsa charts along with consulting rasi charts and > navamsa dispositor strength back in the rasi chart, which is what I > am terming as composite approach. You are expressing as if I am > proposing to use amsa charts separately. If that is the view you are > getting, then please correct the same. > > I think this is a never ending discussion. I only re-entered into > it, when I saw Sri Satish using an inacceptable phrase like 'bottom > of muddy waters', for which he never appeared to have noted his > mistake even after pointing out. An educated person practicing Vedic > astrology, is not expected to use such words about those that do not > agree to his viewpoint. > > Best regards, > > Satya Sai Kolachina > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > Dear Satya ji > > > > Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read > from > > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in > this > > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't > think > > so. > > > > Now in similar lines,if we check we may be able to find a date on > > which all the planets are occuppying the same navamsha or atleast > > majority of planets.Then whatwill do we in those cases. > > > > We have yogas like gola yoga/pravrajya yogas,kemadruma yogas > etc.We > > have to see the amshas as we see in other charts. > > > > Now regarding twins ,Satish ji is right.It is not at all easy to > > measure time of birth,even if one is present inside the labour > > room.Thus most of the times there is an error.Some astrologers who > > are doing predictions based on ''correct time'',using some > > higher ''divsional charts'' (with bhavas) is satisfying > > themselves ,using their pet theories.Even rectification methods > are > > not properly understood. > > > > Now is there any way out?Yes not using charts but higher > > divisionals.Nadi amshas like Chandrakala nadi will hold finer > destiny > > pointers.But who is having correct time and correct > knowledge.Thorugh > > imaginary aspects in divsional charts are proving nothing,in these > > higher divisionals. > > > > As Satish ji has told,within seconds,boundary case divisonal > lagnas > > changes,and if we use houses and explain,then we are not serious > > about astrology.There are many secrets using amshas,not charts- but > if > > we get satisfied with assumptions ,then how will we proceed. > > > > No disrespect meant. > > Regarding secrets lost,dashadhyayi manuscript is available as > > Thaliyola(leaf) grantha. > > > > Regds > > Pradeep > > , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Satish, > > > (a) Your point is not an answer to the question raised here. At > > > least I do not consider this as an answer from people who look > for > > > pramaanas and tarka. How do you analyze 1000s of horoscopes > (people > > > leading different lives in different parts of the world) all > having > > > 8 planets in one rasi? > > > (b) It is true and as insisted by many astrologers including Sri > KN > > > Rao that divisional charts to the order of D-20, D-24 etc cannot > be > > > used without having correct birth time. > > > © Again Sri KN Rao insisted that one should try to rectify the > > > birth time before even attempting to analyze the horscope. > > > > > > Use of Navamsa charts and other divisional charts is not a new > > > concept; it has been there at least to the best of our > knowledge, > > > from the 19th century, at least in the worst case. We do not > even > > > know the way some old astrologers analyzed the horoscopes; there > > are > > > many, many, many secrets of astrology lost; that is what people > > > should realize atleast now, instead of wasting thousands of > hours > > of > > > our valuable lifetime. From the experiences of people like Sri > KN > > > Rao, Sri DR BV Raman, and all other great astrologers, we shd > > > realize that what we are left with in the form of classics, is > only > > > part-correct and part-corrupt sastras. That is the reason wise > > > astrologers like Sri KN Rao are suggesting us to experiment and > use > > > the principles from classics; not use them blindly. If we do not > > > listen to such valuable guidance from elders like Sri KN Rao, > who > > > has the fortune of knowing some subtle secrets (not found in any > > > classics that we are talking here) from his association with > great > > > mahatmas, then we are really in ignorance. > > > > > > I think I am very clear in my opinion. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Satyaji, > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers > > > > have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes > > > > everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if > > > > the time changed by a couple of minutes all their > > > > predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > > > > > question in his > > > > > articles (I guess the question is to other > > > > > astrologers) how can one > > > > > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > > > > > people born in the > > > > > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > > > > > posited in just > > > > > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > > > > > exactly remember; > > > > > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > > > > > since both Rahu > > > > > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > > > > > is the max number > > > > > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > > > > > > > > > I would pose the same question to all those > > > > > supporters of AMSHA > > > > > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > > > > > highly > > > > > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > > > > > supporters or > > > > > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > > > > > into navamsa and > > > > > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > > > > > There should be > > > > > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > > > > > classics, we might > > > > > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > > > > > > > > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > > > > > analyze a > > > > > single horoscope in this condition. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > > > > > concept. It is > > > > > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > > > > > anyway have to > > > > > consider for understanding the strenght of the > > > > > bhava; but not > > > > > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > > > > > divisional charts. > > > > > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > > > > > charts adds to > > > > > its fulfillment. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Satya Sai > > > > > Kolachina " > > > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > > > > horoscopes without > > > > > using > > > > > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > > > > them). For the > > > > > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > > > > > Sri PVR Narasimha > > > > > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > > > > > on " Twins with a > > > > > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > > > > > study on how to > > > > > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > > > > follower nor > > > > > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > > > > group on other > > > > > > matters. I just value people where they are > > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > > > > > on this subject, > > > > > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > > > > contain debate > > > > > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > > > > interesting debate > > > > > too. > > > > > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best reagards, > > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > > > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > > > > > Charts, > > > > > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > > > > > above case ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > > > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > > > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > > > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > > > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > > > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > > _______________ > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > > > http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Dear Shri Satya Saiji, Absolute Truth. Many theroeis and factual occurences cannot be explained just by The Rashi alone. The example of many planets in one sign, is also the appropriate one, where one cannot even read one chart, forget thousands born in the same period. regards, Bhaskar. , " Satya Sai Kolachina " <skolachi wrote: > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a question in his > articles (I guess the question is to other astrologers) how can one > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of people born in the > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are posited in just > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not exactly remember; > but one of them), without using divisional charts; since both Rahu > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this is the max number > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > I would pose the same question to all those supporters of AMSHA > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is highly > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory supporters or > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look into navamsa and > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. There should be > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in classics, we might > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even analyze a > single horoscope in this condition. > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA concept. It is > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we anyway have to > consider for understanding the strenght of the bhava; but not > insolation; it shd be considered along with the divisional charts. > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa charts adds to > its fulfillment. > > Best regards, > Satya S Kolachina > > > , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' horoscopes without > using > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives them). For the > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to Sri PVR Narasimha > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click on " Twins with a > > difference " , where he gave the practical case study on how to > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his follower nor > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this group on other > > matters. I just value people where they are strong. > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views on this subject, > > please go through the archives in this group, that contain debate > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very interesting debate > too. > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > Best reagards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > above case ? > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > regards, > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Dear All, I am reading this thread with lot of interest for the simple reason that I know twins (a girl and a boy) born on 2nd May 2000 at 8.57 AM (girl) and at 8.59 AM (boy) at Chandigarh. I was personally present at the time of their birth and know that the time is correct. Look at so many planets in 11th house in the case of both.It can be a challenging proposition to predict for them. About Navamsha dispositor theory I would like to say that all these generally lead astrologers into blind alleays of unnecessary complications. Jyotish was meant for guidance only and not to decide as to what will one get to eat at lunch time. In my astrology career of 15 years, I have not come across even one person asking day to day happenings in his life. Thus, to give guidance one needs extremely good static analysis of the birth chart and divisional charts rather than dispositors and other subtle things, which are relevant only in a particualr context. People who get into Navamsha dispositors etc. probably forget that to know these dispositors, you need Navamsha chart and hence Navamsha chart is much more important that the Navamsha dispositors...that is my take and I have not failed in predictions by grace of God. I am not opposing anyone's views here. But I would love to know about at least two past events for both the above children predicted correctly using any of the Navamsha dispositors or any technique. They are 7 year old now. Moreover, the only way to start predicting a chart is to always do blind reading. Trace some past events from the birth data. If you are 60 % correct, then the chart will be correct in all probability. If one can trace the past events, then he should be able to find some future events also correctly. This is the way to pursue astrology in modern times as the fake astrologers are galore and one can eveoke respect only if one reads blind and tell 4 to 5 events of the past correctly. If you are totally off mark, then either the chart is wrong or you are wrong. I would suggest not to read that chart and just leave it. I have had success in fixing birth times for 2 people with past events taken from them and then predicting some future events.These events came out correct, which bears tstimony to my way of working on charts as enunciated above. I do not claim it to be original way of assessing charts, but I was taught this by Sh. K N Rao and this is well written in his books. Another thing which I learnt from him was that keep the analysis simple and do not indulge in subtle things of the chart till you have absorbed the gross chart itself otherwise the gross is lost and actually subtle issues do not give predictions. As we all know, an event not indicated in your chart and also not indicated by dasa, can not be created by Transit of planets alone. I would suggest that the forum talks about usage of more dasas and people with command over various dasas should post case studies about their usage with example rather than just theory. I would beg pardon if anyone has been hurt by this mail inadvertently in advance. Regards to all Bipul On 7/10/07, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > Dear all, > > If twins are born and if one does not see > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, > then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. > > How does one judge the difference then,in > above case ? > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > may effect change in the Navamsha > position to correspond the reflected apparent > change in their respective lifestyles, > when they grow up. > > But how does one check this only with the > Rashi chart ? > > regards, > Bhaskar. > > > -- Bipul Pathak,IAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Dear Bipul ji, Brilliant post. I must acknowledge this as the best jyotish mail of the day, for me. Please read my reply underneath your notes. > I am reading this thread with lot of interest for the simple reason that > I > know twins (a girl and a boy) born on 2nd May 2000 at 8.57 AM (girl) and > at > 8.59 AM (boy) at Chandigarh. I was personally present at the time of > their > birth and know that the time is correct. Look at so many planets in 11th > house in the case of both.It can be a challenging proposition to predict > for > them. [Prafulla] Yes - D charts have be to be applied. Shri Bharat also expressed the same on the thread; and so was Shri Sunil John. > > About Navamsha dispositor theory I would like to say that all these > generally lead astrologers into blind alleays of unnecessary > complications. > Jyotish was meant for guidance only and not to decide as to what will one > get to eat at lunch time. In my astrology career of 15 years, I have not > come across even one person asking day to day happenings in his life. [Prafulla] Very true. Jyotish is not meant to predict " day to day " events. It is our selfish life style that, is also responsible for astrologers to predict on day to day basis. > Thus, > to give guidance one needs extremely good static analysis of the birth > chart > and divisional charts rather than dispositors and other subtle things, > which > are relevant only in a particualr context. People who get into Navamsha > dispositors etc. probably forget that to know these dispositors, you need > Navamsha chart and hence Navamsha chart is much more important that the > Navamsha dispositors...that is my take and I have not failed in > predictions > by grace of God. I am not opposing anyone's views here. But I would love > to > know about at least two past events for both the above children predicted > correctly using any of the Navamsha dispositors or any technique. They > are 7 > year old now. > [Prafulla] I am sure, Shri Pradeep will cover these twin borne case studies in his reading model, and hopefully on blind charts. > Moreover, the only way to start predicting a chart is to always do blind > reading. Trace some past events from the birth data. If you are 60 % > correct, then the chart will be correct in all probability. If one can > trace > the past events, then he should be able to find some future events also > correctly. This is the way to pursue astrology in modern times as the > fake > astrologers are galore and one can eveoke respect only if one reads blind > and tell 4 to 5 events of the past correctly. If you are totally off > mark, > then either the chart is wrong or you are wrong. I would suggest not to > read > that chart and just leave it. [Prafulla] very well said. > > I have had success in fixing birth times for 2 people with past events > taken > from them and then predicting some future events.These events came out > correct, which bears tstimony to my way of working on charts as > enunciated > above. I do not claim it to be original way of assessing charts, but I > was > taught this by Sh. K N Rao and this is well written in his books. Another > thing which I learnt from him was that keep the analysis simple and do > not > indulge in subtle things of the chart till you have absorbed the gross > chart > itself otherwise the gross is lost and actually subtle issues do not give > predictions. As we all know, an event not indicated in your chart and > also > not indicated by dasa, can not be created by Transit of planets alone. I > would suggest that the forum talks about usage of more dasas and people > with > command over various dasas should post case studies about their usage > with > example rather than just theory. > [Prafulla] beautifully said. No Transit / Annual chart / Muhurta chart can supercede the basic charts. These charts / data must be used to narrow down the timing and quality of event. At times, these charts will show certain overriders also and so are the strength / weakness parameters. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net Diplomacy - n. the patriotic act of lying for one's country / community. ************************************************ > > On 7/10/07, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> If twins are born and if one does not see >> the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi Charts, >> then there would be no change in the Rashi charts. >> >> How does one judge the difference then,in >> above case ? >> >> The fast moving planets like Moon etc. >> may effect change in the Navamsha >> position to correspond the reflected apparent >> change in their respective lifestyles, >> when they grow up. >> >> But how does one check this only with the >> Rashi chart ? >> >> regards, >> Bhaskar. >> >> >> > > > > -- > Bipul Pathak,IAS > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Dear Sri Pradeep, I agree that you never tried to impose your views; rather you have expressed your views very clearly, and Sri Chandrasekhar ji also the same way, with regards to this particular debate. However, I have noticed some others including Sri Srinadh, Sri Satish to use words of mockery at the people who do not accept their views. That is not acceptable in a debate. Everyone has freedom to express their views in a polite way (Vinayam is an aabharanam to Vidya, which means humble nature enhances the knowledge of a person). Also just because you are expressing your way using Sanskrit shlokas doesn't mean everyone has to take the same approach; I may follow a particular path if I find success in that path, for the reasons I already explained in my earlier mails. I may follow the path shown by Sri KN Rao or Dr BV Raman as I wish; I also noticed someone commenting about followers in a cheap way. These are just cheap tricks and show the absolute lack of maturity on the part of an astrologer; Astrology is a divine science; one who behaves in cheapways has no place in this science; what kind of prediction such a person give to others. One who is supposed to guide others, should first correct himself, if there are errors. That is why I did not participate much in the debate, until I noticed that stability in the environment. There are many excellent astrologers who use such techniques that they give stunning predictions; mostly we do not find such techniques in classics. My approach is to make a prediction as accurate as possible; the technique I use may not have a place in classics; but if I learn such a technique that works as a good predicting tool, I will certainly use it; that is why I said earlier that I am a practical astrologer. Another important point is that the predictive ability depends on the spiritual development level of a person; the more spiritual an astrologer is, the better will be his/her predictions. Many astrologers get such hints when they are in deep meditation. I have no concern about your way of explaining theories. You are just wonderful in explaining your opinion. Best regards and once again good luck in your research. Satya Sai Kolachina , " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Satya ji > > As you have seen in the case of my explanation with Late PM > Chandrashekhar,amshas were used but w.r to Rashi chakra and it were > showing more powerful positions. > > But all the deciding factors,were delienated from Rashi Chakra.Me too > didn't mean,rashi chakra without amshas is an end.Amshas are > important.Thus there is only a samll difference in opinion. > You can see example of Gordon Brown.It was a prediction given 2 years > back. > > The main point is ,if the dashmsha is strong(not chart),apart from > rashi and other strenghts ,then results can be better.We cannot say > if it was because of considering bhavas in amsha chart,that effected > in result. > > In this respect,i will support chandrashekhar jis view.I too can > demonstrate through some charts,using simple and fundamental principle > that rashi chart will show enough clues and amshas from rashi will > give supporting evidence.But you can claim that ,this may not have > been the deciding factor!!!. > > What is your view on SWAMSHA explanation given by Raoji.Thus there > are concerns. > > What is your view on Dr.Ramans ,Prashanmargas,opinion on > dashadhyayi,written 800 years ago. > > Another thing is,with charts having non accurate data,we may aslo > rectify charts to have a good placement from lagna dashamsha.On the > other hand if we do not consider bhavas ,we will always get good/bad > amshas ,helping us in arriving at concusions. > > My intention is only to make my part clear.Conclusions made by others > is not in my hands and it should not be. > > Those who are curious can experiment.As Satish ji has said,there will > be too many parameters,with some of them reduntant,ones. > > Regds > Pradeep > > -- In , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Pradeep, > > > > You Said: > > <Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read > from > > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in > this > > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't think > > so.> > > > > This does not mean rasi chart is the end-of it and not to see the > > amsa charts at all. In fact he said many times to the contrary, > > through his articles and books. > > > > Yes, one has to be proficient to read the Rasi chart, since that is > > the basis. But he gave weights to different amsha charts, which I > > quoted in one my earlier messages. According to your proposition, > > amsha charts should not even be consulted. If such is the case, I > do > > not expect Sri KN Rao to consult amsha charts at all. But that is > > not the case. When classified the different amsa charts with > > weightages, imagine how much of research he could have done on them > > applying on hundreds if not thousands of horoscopes, since that is > > his style as I noted. > > > > In the most recent reference I gave today in an earlier message, he > > clearly talks about 10th house from dasamsa lagna in the dasamsa > > chart, after he talks about the rasi chart. There is a subtle > > difference between the way you are expressing as what I am > > proposing, than actually what I am explaining. I am saying that we > > should consult the amsa charts along with consulting rasi charts > and > > navamsa dispositor strength back in the rasi chart, which is what I > > am terming as composite approach. You are expressing as if I am > > proposing to use amsa charts separately. If that is the view you > are > > getting, then please correct the same. > > > > I think this is a never ending discussion. I only re-entered into > > it, when I saw Sri Satish using an inacceptable phrase like 'bottom > > of muddy waters', for which he never appeared to have noted his > > mistake even after pointing out. An educated person practicing > Vedic > > astrology, is not expected to use such words about those that do > not > > agree to his viewpoint. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Satya Sai Kolachina > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Satya ji > > > > > > Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read > > from > > > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in > > this > > > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't > > think > > > so. > > > > > > Now in similar lines,if we check we may be able to find a date on > > > which all the planets are occuppying the same navamsha or atleast > > > majority of planets.Then whatwill do we in those cases. > > > > > > We have yogas like gola yoga/pravrajya yogas,kemadruma yogas > > etc.We > > > have to see the amshas as we see in other charts. > > > > > > Now regarding twins ,Satish ji is right.It is not at all easy to > > > measure time of birth,even if one is present inside the labour > > > room.Thus most of the times there is an error.Some astrologers > who > > > are doing predictions based on ''correct time'',using some > > > higher ''divsional charts'' (with bhavas) is satisfying > > > themselves ,using their pet theories.Even rectification methods > > are > > > not properly understood. > > > > > > Now is there any way out?Yes not using charts but higher > > > divisionals.Nadi amshas like Chandrakala nadi will hold finer > > destiny > > > pointers.But who is having correct time and correct > > knowledge.Thorugh > > > imaginary aspects in divsional charts are proving nothing,in > these > > > higher divisionals. > > > > > > As Satish ji has told,within seconds,boundary case divisonal > > lagnas > > > changes,and if we use houses and explain,then we are not serious > > > about astrology.There are many secrets using amshas,not charts- > but > > if > > > we get satisfied with assumptions ,then how will we proceed. > > > > > > No disrespect meant. > > > Regarding secrets lost,dashadhyayi manuscript is available as > > > Thaliyola(leaf) grantha. > > > > > > Regds > > > Pradeep > > > , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Satish, > > > > (a) Your point is not an answer to the question raised here. At > > > > least I do not consider this as an answer from people who look > > for > > > > pramaanas and tarka. How do you analyze 1000s of horoscopes > > (people > > > > leading different lives in different parts of the world) all > > having > > > > 8 planets in one rasi? > > > > (b) It is true and as insisted by many astrologers including > Sri > > KN > > > > Rao that divisional charts to the order of D-20, D-24 etc > cannot > > be > > > > used without having correct birth time. > > > > © Again Sri KN Rao insisted that one should try to rectify > the > > > > birth time before even attempting to analyze the horscope. > > > > > > > > Use of Navamsa charts and other divisional charts is not a new > > > > concept; it has been there at least to the best of our > > knowledge, > > > > from the 19th century, at least in the worst case. We do not > > even > > > > know the way some old astrologers analyzed the horoscopes; > there > > > are > > > > many, many, many secrets of astrology lost; that is what people > > > > should realize atleast now, instead of wasting thousands of > > hours > > > of > > > > our valuable lifetime. From the experiences of people like Sri > > KN > > > > Rao, Sri DR BV Raman, and all other great astrologers, we shd > > > > realize that what we are left with in the form of classics, is > > only > > > > part-correct and part-corrupt sastras. That is the reason wise > > > > astrologers like Sri KN Rao are suggesting us to experiment and > > use > > > > the principles from classics; not use them blindly. If we do > not > > > > listen to such valuable guidance from elders like Sri KN Rao, > > who > > > > has the fortune of knowing some subtle secrets (not found in > any > > > > classics that we are talking here) from his association with > > great > > > > mahatmas, then we are really in ignorance. > > > > > > > > I think I am very clear in my opinion. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Satyaji, > > > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers > > > > > have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes > > > > > everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if > > > > > the time changed by a couple of minutes all their > > > > > predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > > > > > > question in his > > > > > > articles (I guess the question is to other > > > > > > astrologers) how can one > > > > > > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > > > > > > people born in the > > > > > > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > > > > > > posited in just > > > > > > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > > > > > > exactly remember; > > > > > > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > > > > > > since both Rahu > > > > > > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > > > > > > is the max number > > > > > > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would pose the same question to all those > > > > > > supporters of AMSHA > > > > > > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > > > > > > highly > > > > > > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > > > > > > supporters or > > > > > > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > > > > > > into navamsa and > > > > > > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > > > > > > There should be > > > > > > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > > > > > > classics, we might > > > > > > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > > > > > > > > > > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > > > > > > analyze a > > > > > > single horoscope in this condition. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > > > > > > concept. It is > > > > > > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > > > > > > anyway have to > > > > > > consider for understanding the strenght of the > > > > > > bhava; but not > > > > > > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > > > > > > divisional charts. > > > > > > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > > > > > > charts adds to > > > > > > its fulfillment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Satya Sai > > > > > > Kolachina " > > > > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > > > > > horoscopes without > > > > > > using > > > > > > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > > > > > them). For the > > > > > > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > > > > > > Sri PVR Narasimha > > > > > > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > > > > > > on " Twins with a > > > > > > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > > > > > > study on how to > > > > > > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > > > > > follower nor > > > > > > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > > > > > group on other > > > > > > > matters. I just value people where they are > > > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > > > > > > on this subject, > > > > > > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > > > > > contain debate > > > > > > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > > > > > interesting debate > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best reagards, > > > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > > > > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > > > > > > Charts, > > > > > > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > > > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > > > > > > above case ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > > > > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > > > > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > > > > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > > > > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > > > > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > > > _______________ > > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > > > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > > > > http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hello Satyaji, I don't know why you have taken such an exception to my phrase " at the bottom of muddy waters " It is one of the least offensive thing said comapred to some I have seen recently..anyway I am sorry if it hurt someone's feelings. It is a factual statement however from the standpoint of any observer. The jyotish waters are muddy and especially the varga/varga chart business. If it was not muddy we all will see clearly what has been said by rishis and there would be no debate ,no argument. No one debates laws of gravity in terrestial mechanics, as they are well established and waters there are not muddy. Satish --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > Dear Sri Pradeep, > > You Said: > <Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who > cannot read from > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it > mean that in this > particular case alone,we cannot reach any > conclusions.I don't think > so.> > > This does not mean rasi chart is the end-of it and > not to see the > amsa charts at all. In fact he said many times to > the contrary, > through his articles and books. > > Yes, one has to be proficient to read the Rasi > chart, since that is > the basis. But he gave weights to different amsha > charts, which I > quoted in one my earlier messages. According to your > proposition, > amsha charts should not even be consulted. If such > is the case, I do > not expect Sri KN Rao to consult amsha charts at > all. But that is > not the case. When classified the different amsa > charts with > weightages, imagine how much of research he could > have done on them > applying on hundreds if not thousands of horoscopes, > since that is > his style as I noted. > > In the most recent reference I gave today in an > earlier message, he > clearly talks about 10th house from dasamsa lagna in > the dasamsa > chart, after he talks about the rasi chart. There is > a subtle > difference between the way you are expressing as > what I am > proposing, than actually what I am explaining. I am > saying that we > should consult the amsa charts along with consulting > rasi charts and > navamsa dispositor strength back in the rasi chart, > which is what I > am terming as composite approach. You are expressing > as if I am > proposing to use amsa charts separately. If that is > the view you are > getting, then please correct the same. > > I think this is a never ending discussion. I only > re-entered into > it, when I saw Sri Satish using an inacceptable > phrase like 'bottom > of muddy waters', for which he never appeared to > have noted his > mistake even after pointing out. An educated person > practicing Vedic > astrology, is not expected to use such words about > those that do not > agree to his viewpoint. > > Best regards, > > Satya Sai Kolachina > ______________________________\ ____ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Dear Satya ji Yes me too was bit enthusiastic (over) about others accepting my views,when i had started this discussion a few years back.I hope you all will understand this as the rush of blood and efefct of LL in lagna. By observing the learned members and guidance from you all ,i am growing. I am not at all worried about others accepting or rejecting.I am supposed to do my duty and not worried about how others feel about me.If soem one considers me as blessed,i won't become that just because of their comment.Reverse holds good if some one thinks i am a fool. As satish ji has explained his case,i feel he was just making a paasing comment,not a serious abuse:-) I respect your views and as you may kindly note,the intention behind all these discussions was - Many use Varga chakras with 100's of parameters,ignoring the Rashi chakra.Or if some one is unable to explain from Rashichakra ,as per convenience some varaga charts were used.This is totally misleading and many students were really affected.Those who use may be having their own views and we respect them. But it is also our duty to seek explanation and check if those were just assumptions or inadvertent mistakes.I feel we may not compromise with fundamentals. Thanks again for your kind words. Regds Pradeep -- In , " Satya Sai Kolachina " <skolachi wrote: > > Dear Sri Pradeep, > > I agree that you never tried to impose your views; rather you have > expressed your views very clearly, and Sri Chandrasekhar ji also the > same way, with regards to this particular debate. However, I have > noticed some others including Sri Srinadh, Sri Satish to use words of > mockery at the people who do not accept their views. That is not > acceptable in a debate. > > Everyone has freedom to express their views in a polite way (Vinayam > is an aabharanam to Vidya, which means humble nature enhances the > knowledge of a person). Also just because you are expressing your way > using Sanskrit shlokas doesn't mean everyone has to take the same > approach; I may follow a particular path if I find success in that > path, for the reasons I already explained in my earlier mails. I may > follow the path shown by Sri KN Rao or Dr BV Raman as I wish; I also > noticed someone commenting about followers in a cheap way. These are > just cheap tricks and show the absolute lack of maturity on the part > of an astrologer; Astrology is a divine science; one who behaves in > cheapways has no place in this science; what kind of prediction such > a person give to others. One who is supposed to guide others, should > first correct himself, if there are errors. That is why I did not > participate much in the debate, until I noticed that stability in the > environment. > > There are many excellent astrologers who use such techniques that > they give stunning predictions; mostly we do not find such techniques > in classics. My approach is to make a prediction as accurate as > possible; the technique I use may not have a place in classics; but > if I learn such a technique that works as a good predicting tool, I > will certainly use it; that is why I said earlier that I am a > practical astrologer. > > Another important point is that the predictive ability depends on the > spiritual development level of a person; the more spiritual an > astrologer is, the better will be his/her predictions. Many > astrologers get such hints when they are in deep meditation. > > I have no concern about your way of explaining theories. You are just > wonderful in explaining your opinion. > > Best regards and once again good luck in your research. > Satya Sai Kolachina > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > Dear Satya ji > > > > As you have seen in the case of my explanation with Late PM > > Chandrashekhar,amshas were used but w.r to Rashi chakra and it were > > showing more powerful positions. > > > > But all the deciding factors,were delienated from Rashi Chakra.Me > too > > didn't mean,rashi chakra without amshas is an end.Amshas are > > important.Thus there is only a samll difference in opinion. > > You can see example of Gordon Brown.It was a prediction given 2 > years > > back. > > > > The main point is ,if the dashmsha is strong(not chart),apart from > > rashi and other strenghts ,then results can be better.We cannot say > > if it was because of considering bhavas in amsha chart,that > effected > > in result. > > > > In this respect,i will support chandrashekhar jis view.I too can > > demonstrate through some charts,using simple and fundamental > principle > > that rashi chart will show enough clues and amshas from rashi will > > give supporting evidence.But you can claim that ,this may not have > > been the deciding factor!!!. > > > > What is your view on SWAMSHA explanation given by Raoji.Thus there > > are concerns. > > > > What is your view on Dr.Ramans ,Prashanmargas,opinion on > > dashadhyayi,written 800 years ago. > > > > Another thing is,with charts having non accurate data,we may aslo > > rectify charts to have a good placement from lagna dashamsha.On the > > other hand if we do not consider bhavas ,we will always get > good/bad > > amshas ,helping us in arriving at concusions. > > > > My intention is only to make my part clear.Conclusions made by > others > > is not in my hands and it should not be. > > > > Those who are curious can experiment.As Satish ji has said,there > will > > be too many parameters,with some of them reduntant,ones. > > > > Regds > > Pradeep > > > > -- In , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Pradeep, > > > > > > You Said: > > > <Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read > > from > > > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that in > > this > > > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't > think > > > so.> > > > > > > This does not mean rasi chart is the end-of it and not to see the > > > amsa charts at all. In fact he said many times to the contrary, > > > through his articles and books. > > > > > > Yes, one has to be proficient to read the Rasi chart, since that > is > > > the basis. But he gave weights to different amsha charts, which I > > > quoted in one my earlier messages. According to your proposition, > > > amsha charts should not even be consulted. If such is the case, I > > do > > > not expect Sri KN Rao to consult amsha charts at all. But that is > > > not the case. When classified the different amsa charts with > > > weightages, imagine how much of research he could have done on > them > > > applying on hundreds if not thousands of horoscopes, since that > is > > > his style as I noted. > > > > > > In the most recent reference I gave today in an earlier message, > he > > > clearly talks about 10th house from dasamsa lagna in the dasamsa > > > chart, after he talks about the rasi chart. There is a subtle > > > difference between the way you are expressing as what I am > > > proposing, than actually what I am explaining. I am saying that > we > > > should consult the amsa charts along with consulting rasi charts > > and > > > navamsa dispositor strength back in the rasi chart, which is what > I > > > am terming as composite approach. You are expressing as if I am > > > proposing to use amsa charts separately. If that is the view you > > are > > > getting, then please correct the same. > > > > > > I think this is a never ending discussion. I only re-entered into > > > it, when I saw Sri Satish using an inacceptable phrase > like 'bottom > > > of muddy waters', for which he never appeared to have noted his > > > mistake even after pointing out. An educated person practicing > > Vedic > > > astrology, is not expected to use such words about those that do > > not > > > agree to his viewpoint. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Satya Sai Kolachina > > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Satya ji > > > > > > > > Raoji himself had written in this list that,one who cannot read > > > from > > > > the Rashi chart cannot learn astrology.Thus does it mean that > in > > > this > > > > particular case alone,we cannot reach any conclusions.I don't > > > think > > > > so. > > > > > > > > Now in similar lines,if we check we may be able to find a date > on > > > > which all the planets are occuppying the same navamsha or > atleast > > > > majority of planets.Then whatwill do we in those cases. > > > > > > > > We have yogas like gola yoga/pravrajya yogas,kemadruma yogas > > > etc.We > > > > have to see the amshas as we see in other charts. > > > > > > > > Now regarding twins ,Satish ji is right.It is not at all easy > to > > > > measure time of birth,even if one is present inside the labour > > > > room.Thus most of the times there is an error.Some astrologers > > who > > > > are doing predictions based on ''correct time'',using some > > > > higher ''divsional charts'' (with bhavas) is satisfying > > > > themselves ,using their pet theories.Even rectification methods > > > are > > > > not properly understood. > > > > > > > > Now is there any way out?Yes not using charts but higher > > > > divisionals.Nadi amshas like Chandrakala nadi will hold finer > > > destiny > > > > pointers.But who is having correct time and correct > > > knowledge.Thorugh > > > > imaginary aspects in divsional charts are proving nothing,in > > these > > > > higher divisionals. > > > > > > > > As Satish ji has told,within seconds,boundary case divisonal > > > lagnas > > > > changes,and if we use houses and explain,then we are not > serious > > > > about astrology.There are many secrets using amshas,not charts- > > but > > > if > > > > we get satisfied with assumptions ,then how will we proceed. > > > > > > > > No disrespect meant. > > > > Regarding secrets lost,dashadhyayi manuscript is available as > > > > Thaliyola(leaf) grantha. > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > , " Satya Sai Kolachina " > > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Satish, > > > > > (a) Your point is not an answer to the question raised here. > At > > > > > least I do not consider this as an answer from people who > look > > > for > > > > > pramaanas and tarka. How do you analyze 1000s of horoscopes > > > (people > > > > > leading different lives in different parts of the world) all > > > having > > > > > 8 planets in one rasi? > > > > > (b) It is true and as insisted by many astrologers including > > Sri > > > KN > > > > > Rao that divisional charts to the order of D-20, D-24 etc > > cannot > > > be > > > > > used without having correct birth time. > > > > > © Again Sri KN Rao insisted that one should try to rectify > > the > > > > > birth time before even attempting to analyze the horscope. > > > > > > > > > > Use of Navamsa charts and other divisional charts is not a > new > > > > > concept; it has been there at least to the best of our > > > knowledge, > > > > > from the 19th century, at least in the worst case. We do not > > > even > > > > > know the way some old astrologers analyzed the horoscopes; > > there > > > > are > > > > > many, many, many secrets of astrology lost; that is what > people > > > > > should realize atleast now, instead of wasting thousands of > > > hours > > > > of > > > > > our valuable lifetime. From the experiences of people like > Sri > > > KN > > > > > Rao, Sri DR BV Raman, and all other great astrologers, we shd > > > > > realize that what we are left with in the form of classics, > is > > > only > > > > > part-correct and part-corrupt sastras. That is the reason > wise > > > > > astrologers like Sri KN Rao are suggesting us to experiment > and > > > use > > > > > the principles from classics; not use them blindly. If we do > > not > > > > > listen to such valuable guidance from elders like Sri KN Rao, > > > who > > > > > has the fortune of knowing some subtle secrets (not found in > > any > > > > > classics that we are talking here) from his association with > > > great > > > > > mahatmas, then we are really in ignorance. > > > > > > > > > > I think I am very clear in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > , SPK <aquaris_rising@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Satyaji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting that people who go to astrogers > > > > > > have birth times accurate to within 2 minutes > > > > > > everytime? I doubt it. So those who use D-charts, if > > > > > > the time changed by a couple of minutes all their > > > > > > predictions should go wrong. Is that so ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one of the occassions, Sri KN Rao posed a > > > > > > > question in his > > > > > > > articles (I guess the question is to other > > > > > > > astrologers) how can one > > > > > > > analyze the horoscopes of several thousands of > > > > > > > people born in the > > > > > > > month of February 1962, where 8 planets out of 9 are > > > > > > > posited in just > > > > > > > one Rasi (either it is Makara or Kumbha I do not > > > > > > > exactly remember; > > > > > > > but one of them), without using divisional charts; > > > > > > > since both Rahu > > > > > > > and Kethu cannot be in the same rasi any way, this > > > > > > > is the max number > > > > > > > of planets that can be grouped in one rasi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would pose the same question to all those > > > > > > > supporters of AMSHA > > > > > > > theory to answer this question of Sri KN Rao. It is > > > > > > > highly > > > > > > > inappropriate on the part of these AMSHA theory > > > > > > > supporters or > > > > > > > Internet astrologers to consider that those DO look > > > > > > > into navamsa and > > > > > > > other amsa charts are doing it out of ignorance. > > > > > > > There should be > > > > > > > some sound reason for it. If we don't find it in > > > > > > > classics, we might > > > > > > > have lost such subtle points in the past years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forget about thousands of horoscopes; we cannot even > > > > > > > analyze a > > > > > > > single horoscope in this condition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am not discounting on the AMSHA > > > > > > > concept. It is > > > > > > > nothing but the concept of Navamsa dispositors, we > > > > > > > anyway have to > > > > > > > consider for understanding the strenght of the > > > > > > > bhava; but not > > > > > > > insolation; it shd be considered along with the > > > > > > > divisional charts. > > > > > > > Amsha strenght only fulfills part analysis; navamsa > > > > > > > charts adds to > > > > > > > its fulfillment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Satya Sai > > > > > > > Kolachina " > > > > > > > <skolachi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Bhaskar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will be impossible to explain the twins' > > > > > > > horoscopes without > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > Varga charts (or D charts whatever name one gives > > > > > > > them). For the > > > > > > > > benefit of the members, I can point everyone to > > > > > > > Sri PVR Narasimha > > > > > > > > Rao's website, www.vedicastrologer.org and click > > > > > > > on " Twins with a > > > > > > > > difference " , where he gave the practical case > > > > > > > study on how to > > > > > > > > analyze twins horoscopes using divisional charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that I am neither his student nor his > > > > > > > follower nor > > > > > > > > supporter. In the past I debated with him in this > > > > > > > group on other > > > > > > > > matters. I just value people where they are > > > > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who are interested to know Sri PVR's views > > > > > > > on this subject, > > > > > > > > please go through the archives in this group, that > > > > > > > contain debate > > > > > > > > between Sri PVR and Sri Pradeep. It was very > > > > > > > interesting debate > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > PVR was also a very good Sanskrit scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best reagards, > > > > > > > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If twins are born and if one does not see > > > > > > > > > the Divisional Charts, but only the Rashi > > > > > > > Charts, > > > > > > > > > then there would be no change in the Rashi > > > > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does one judge the difference then,in > > > > > > > > > above case ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fast moving planets like Moon etc. > > > > > > > > > may effect change in the Navamsha > > > > > > > > > position to correspond the reflected apparent > > > > > > > > > change in their respective lifestyles, > > > > > > > > > when they grow up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But how does one check this only with the > > > > > > > > > Rashi chart ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > > > > _______________ > > > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > > > > > > in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. > > > > > > http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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