Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Dear Prashant ji Many thanks for sharing BV Raman's perspective. You being his student - so please help in clarifying few issues from BV Raman's perspective: a. Do Varga Chart exists? b. Does combination / yoga exist in Varga chart? c. Does bhava exist in varga chart - e.g. 5th bhava in D7 or 10th bhava in D10 etc c. You mentioned afflictions in varga chart - (does imply that varga chart exists and bhava also) - so how do we see these afflictions in D charts? Should only natural malefic be afflicting or functional malefic / benefic be also considered like we see in D1. d. for the purpose of afflcitions - do you feel - aspects in D charts have role, or only through conjunction of causative planets? This thread is closed for me for now..I just need clarifications from Prashant ji. regards / Prafulla , " astro desk " <astro.prashantkumar wrote: > > Pradeep, > > broadly what u have posted thru some1s article is the right line, I remember > BV Raman saying so too, no aspects in vargas it is like tail wagging the > dog. > > if there is no strength in the D1 chart what use is it in vargas? > > and after seeing the strength in Rasi chart the amount of strength has to be > ascertained for each subject/point in life thru vargas its supports one > another and if it is weak there say in Dasamsa if a planet is weaker than > the one in Rasi and Navamsa it can't be said to deliver all that may be > shining in rasi on the livelihood/profession side. > > there is a special number September issue of astrological Magazine dealing > with vargas by many eminent astrologers may be sept 72-73 please check has > many great works referenced. by luminaries. [surya prakash memorial issues > are topic centric gems] > > one tip from it can be easily used here too > > if rasi 5th lord and house is strong BUT any varga has a afflicted 5th > amsaits Poorva punya is aflicted for that varga- weak will have short > comings or > sufferings say in D1 5th lord is strong and D7 it is afflicted by occupation > of a malefic CHILDREN related issues suffer > > sametime if the 5th lord is well placed in D1 and D10 it works much better > or if an exalted planet or friendly planet occupies 5th amsa HELPS IT > BETTER. > > apply similar rules for other vargas, planets, houses what they signify and > how the poorva punya of it is will make the difference in its results. > > SAME with yogas too and one cant expect yogas in vargas to deliver when they > don't in exist in D1. > > the tail can't wag the dog....! > > > I HOPE i HAVE SUMMED UP UR QUESTION HERE. > > BEST WISHES > > prashant > > > > On 7/25/07, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > Dear Respected members > > > > While searching internet to find something else,i could get many new > > infos as shared yesterday - Chandrashekhar jis views ,Parthas > > views,Freedoms views etc.I will analyze Mr.Parthas views and > > Mr.Freedoms views later. > > > > Most importantly i found a brilliant article written in 2001 by an > > elderly gentleman called Kuttikat Chandrabose(of my fathers age) > > regarding aspects in ''varga charts''.I request everyone who is > > having a scientific inclination to read this. > > ------------------------- > > > > Can we justify aspects in varga charts of Vedic Astrology? > > > > Until now I have not bothered myself to find out whether there are > > contradictions in the written literature of Vedic Astrology. The > > reason for this nonchalant attitude was the assumption that the > > very planets that signify good tidings will also signify bad > > indications, depending upon how the planets are linked to the > > various matters, the various portfolios of human life. > > > > So,contradictions become subjective to the native, depending on what > > the native considers good or bad. As an example, my father left our > > birthplace in India when I was 18 months old. He went to Singapore > > (it was pre-world war II times) where he had made his fortune > > before he married my mother, and I was born as the first offspring. > > He was financially hard up when I was born. He (my father) knew > > that he could land his old job in Singapore, where he was well paid. > > World war II broke out, Singapore was a favored Japanese strategic > > target, all whereabouts of my father along with several of his > > friends were all lost without a trace. I have no recollection of my > > fathers face or any memories of him. > > Those of you dabble in both, Western as well as Eastern astrology, > > know that aspects are one issue on which the two systems differ > > fundamentally.The reason why I took an example from my birth chart > > was to illustrate that an aspect in the birth chart modifies even an > > unoccupied zodiac sign, a postulate only Vedic Astrology makes. I > > have researched other cases which also seem to substantiate this > > dictum. > > > > Those of you who have access to Goravani Jyothish may cast my chart > > for11/04/1936, TOB 1:40: AM, Trichur, India. In my birth chart, five > > out of the nine Vedic astrology planets aspect my 9th House, > > somewhat of a rare aspectual concentration on a single House. Four > > out of the five are malefic planets. The dictum that a glance from > > Jupiter will eliminate a thousand evils did not work for me, at > > least about my father, because the 5th aspect of the benefic > > Jupiter falls on the 9th House too. Looking back on my own life, my > > 9th House succumbed to the evil forces it was subjected to, with > > respect to the experience I had about my father. But overall, for > > myself, the 9th House considered as a House of luck or fortune, I > > was rather blessed in the ambitions I had entertained in life > > compared to my rather low birth (only financially) surroundings. > > > > Thus, the science of astrology in fact allows for what are seemingly > > apparent contradictions, but these are contradictions resulting from > > differences in subjective interpretations, rather than those > > inherent in astrological dictums. > > > > I give my life experience here because it convinces me how aspects to > > an empty rasi (unoccupied by any planet) in a birth chart can have > > meaningful impacts on those matters in the native's life, signified > > by that rasi. However, when I come to aspects in amsa charts (also > > called varga charts) in Vedic Astrology, I am a little lost about > > its significance in the astrological literature. > > > > In general, most writings in Vedic Astrology literature allow for the > > existence of aspects in amsa charts. If one accepts that aspects both > > in Western as well in Eastern Astrology there seems to exist this > > acceptance) result from some particular geometrical angular > > relationships between planets, then it is difficult to see how in > > Parasara designed amsa charts one can meaningfully assign aspects. > > When a planet is transplanted from its rasi osition in a birth chart > > (where in fact it is there in real time) to another Zodiac House in > > an amsa chart, this planet looses its longitudinal identity which > > characterized it in the birth chart. > > > > Varga charts were introduced by Sage Parasara to fine tune the > > astrological judgment of certain matters in the native's life. The > > Sage declares their function in his book, albeit briefly but in no > > uncertain terms, in his introduction to vargavivekadhiaya. > > Parasara's justification for the creation of the varga charts is > > based on his postulate that planets which have the common lordship > > over a rasi, for example Mars over Mesha(Aries) and Vrischika > > (Scorpio) are not necessarily the supreme rulers of the various > > amsas (fractions) within the thirty degree span of the same rasis. > > Thus, while Mars rules the whole of Mesha in general, Mars has some > > added rulership-right on the first Navamsha of Mesha(0-3°20') > > compared to the rest of 8 Navamshas of Mesha. The remaining 8 > > Navamshas may be considered to be leased, (figuratively speaking!) by > > Mars from other planets, giving him the general rulership all over > > Mesha, while on the first Navamsha Mars is the absolute territorial > > lord. Such considerations form the basis of the origin of an amsa > > chart, requiring the placement of a planet within 0-3°20' of Mesha > > in a birth chart in Mesha itself in the Navamsha chart, while a > > planet that is occupying a longitude 3°20' 6°40' in Mesha is placed > > in Vrisha(Taurus). The different arrangement of planets in the amsa > > chart from that of the birth chart is to be used to get a better > > glimpse of the indications of the native's life, but only when > > judging those matters laid down by the originator of the amsa > > chart. Thus, Navamsha for marriage or partnerships, Dasamsa for > > career etc; > > > > In time various post-Parasara writings have accumulated paving a way > > for two distinct line of thoughts. 1) When the amsa chart is to be > > interpreted there is no need to pay attention to those aspects in > > birth chart, obviously they(those aspects which were in the birth > > chart) may indeed be non existent in the amsa chart, 2) Planets in > > Amsa charts develop drishtis (aspects) under the same Parasara > > rules as in birth chart. Example, all oppositions in a varga chart > > have the same meaning as in rasi chart, the special aspects of > > Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn are applicable to the amsa charts the > > same way it is applied to rasi chart. > > > > I find two problems with the above concept. > > 1) A whole chapter in Parasara Hora has been devoted to drikbala of > > planets. > > Those of you click through GJ need not be told that drikbala is an > > important attribute of planetary shadbala strength. The starting > > point of the math for evaluation of drikbala function is the > > longitude of planets. Is it not clear that the drikbala is > > aspectual strength? If there is no longitudinal identity, > > and consequently no angular relationship can be attributed between > > planets in an amsa chart, does it not make aspect and aspectual > > strength a foregone conclusion in amsa charts? One has to remember > > that when a planet is in Thula(Libra) and another one is in Mesha > > in Navamsha chart, they are there in those respective rasis because > > those planets occupied (in the birth chart) segments ruled by > > Venus and Mars, the lords of Thula and Mesha respectively. Such a > > relationship originates in the amsa lordship between segments of a > > given rasi, it has got nothing to do with any angular relationship > > between planets existing at the time of birth. Therefore, there is > > no justification to consider that these planets are in opposition > > in the same sense as they will be in rasi, if they are similarly > > placed. > > > > 2) Nowhere do I see aspect in varga charts explicitly mentioned in > > Parasara Hora.(see the exception in Karakamsha charts mentioned > > below). In the chapter where the Sage mentions vimshopaka strength > > of planets (amsa charts do play a big role here) he makes no > > mention of aspects, while exaltation(ucha) and own house > > (swakhetram) are given appropriate considerations. Am I to suppose > > that the Muni who carefully laid down precise mathematical rules to > > apportion aspectual strengths in shadbala made an inadvertent > > omission in vimshopaka? > > > > There is, however, a chapter in Hora sastra that mentions a general > > aspect, one that is not tied up in a longitudinal link on the > > zodiac. In this chapter(chapter 9) there is a mention of aspects of > > signs. The opposite signs and the planets contained within opposing > > signs are considered to be aspecting each other, in addition to a > > certain other combinations that gives fractional aspects. Thus, > > when the term sputadrishti(an aspect characterized by a longitude in > > the zodiac) is used, it becomes necessary to distinguish it from > > another kind of drishti, one that is not associated with sputam > > (longitude). May be one can claim that the later kind of aspect is > > the one Sage Parasara is referring to in Karakamsha chart, when the > > Sage uses the term ''Yutekshithe'' (to mean conjunct or aspected ). > > By and large in astrological applications these general aspects > > (mentioned in chapter 9) are ignored. When aspects are mentioned in > > modern writings, almost invariably, the author implies aspects that > > modify planetary attributes by divination or karakatwas of > > aspecting and aspected planets. Such aspects are the ones between > > planets in oppositions, or the special aspects of outer planets and > > Mars. Such aspects can be meaningfully implicated only with their > > longitudinal identity, a parameter not existing in amsa charts. > > > > Thus, when Parasara uses the word " yutekshite " as he does in the > > many verses in the chapter on Karakamsha in his monumental work, Hora > > Sastra, a distinction has to made by the readers between such > > drishti and those discussed in the birth chart. The later ones are > > the only aspects that results in drikbala. The one in amsa charts > > are supposed to be the ones, or those like the ones, mentioned in > > chapter 9. The aspects that quantitatively modifies the properties > > and significations by imparting characteristics of the aspecting and > > aspected planets are always the ones that arise out of a defined > > geometrical configuration. Such aspects cannot be existing in amsa > > charts unless the design framework of amsa charts are modified from > > that laid down by Sage Parasara. > > > > Therefore, the total of 16 vargas giving rise to 144 aspects (not > > counting special aspects of outer planets) does seem to be an > > unnecessary complication that is not warranted by the definition of > > aspects resulting in drikbala. Those aspects which do not have > > aspectual strengths obviously cannot be equated on the same par to > > those whose aspectual strength can be quantified. Many writings in > > Vedic Astrology, dating back even to the beginning of the 19th > > century, make no distinction between an aspect in the birth chart > > and that in an amsa chart. > > I do not mean to implicate that because there is not a longitudinal > > identity there is no planetary interaction in a varga chart between > > planets. My reasoning on aspects is exclusive of the relative ease > > or difficulty of interaction between planets when they are in 1:9 > > and a 1:8 rasi position with respect to one another. Such > > positional identities do not need an angular arc, described by > > degree min second to define their position By assigning meaningful > > aspects in amsa chart one actually begins to open a whole can of > > worms. In some amsa charts, especially in those of smaller > > fractional values, one starts to see the Moon's two nodes lumped > > together in a single sign. How can one imagibe or justify a Rahu > > falling out of of aspect from Ketu? In Parasara's Hora chart (the > > fractional basis of Hora chart is fifteen degrees, half of a sign) > > all planets have to line up in either Cancer or Leo. Is it that in > > Hora chart, aspects between planets can be ignored, or they do not > > exist there, but in all other amsa charts aspects are meaningful? > > Vedic classics texts do mention that strengths of Yogas are > > inversely dependant on the inter-planetary distance within a sign. > > Lot of post parasara writings speak about Yogas in amsa charts. How > > do these authors assign orbs, and consequently strength of Yogas > > when planets are conjunct in amsa chart signs? > > > > In the absence of written word from the Sage who originated the amsa > > chart, one has only common sense to guide him through. My common > > sense does see a necessity for longitude to justify aspect in > > meaningful fashion, for aspect that cannot be quantitatively > > ascertained has to be considered as an inferior parameter to > > sputadrishti which can be quantitatively assessed. In my experience, > > it is not only unjustified to treat aspects in amsa charts > > the same way as one treats it in birth chart, but also leaving out > > aspects from amsa charts do not take away any of the thunder out of > > any predictions in Vedic Astrology. I hope to hear from those of > > you who enjoy clicking through the invaluable gift bestowed on us > > by Das Goravani. Happy clicking!, > > --- Kuttikkat Chandrabose > > --- kuttikkatbose@ > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Thank you, > > Prashantkumar > -------- > For Consultation charges please write to me > -------- > G B Prashant Kumar > `Gyandeep' 4, Fifth street > Nandanam Extn, > Chennai 600035, INDIA > MOBILE 9840051861 > TEL 42110983/24340186 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.