Reg. Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya theory

April 6, 2007

Folks,

just a small clarification. Author of Bhavaartha Ratnaakara is a person

different from the legendary Vishishtaadhvaita proponent (name is same).

Dakshinamoorthyji, Thou shalt pardon me for digression :-)

Regards

dakshinastrologer <dakshinastrologer

vedic astrology

Friday, April 6, 2007 7:55:52 AM

[vedic astrology] Reg. " Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya " theory

Dear Members:

I have been following the thread on " Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya " with

interest. On the one hand, some members feel it is one of

the " invented " or " recently developed " spurious dictum. Of course,

there are others who swear by that! This is one of the most

misunderstood and wrongly applied techniques in predictive

astrology. So, I thought I will clarify it as far as I have

understood it from my reading of the classics and will also

give " classical evidence " for the theory (this is not a recently

invented theory; this is one of the many dictums that were more

commonly known and not codified in the earlier compediums of

astrology like BPHS. BPHS does not mention many yogas/ doshas/

dictums which I presume may be due to the fact that in those days

only the basics were taught to everyone and advanced techniques were

always preserved by word of mouth. In certain cases, those dictums

were too well-known in that culture and there was no need for the

illustrious sage to codify it in his illustrious work; there was no

need for it as the knowledge was wide-spread) .

Now regarding " Kaarako Bhava Naasaya " .... Chapter 2, Stanza 9 of

Bhavaartha Ratnaakara (reputed to have been composed by

Ramanujacharya Himself) says

" sarveshu Bhaavasthaaneshu tatad Bhaavaadhikaarkah

vidyate tasya bhaavasya phalam swalpam udheeritham "

It means that if the different kaarakas are present in their

respective bhaavaas, such bhaavaas lose their vitality and give rise

to very little of their indications.

This applies more to the natural kaarakaas and not

the " bhaavaadipathis " , i.e., we should not confuse the house owner

with the house kaarakaa!

Tradition has it that this rule has its exception in Saturn - the

8th house kaarakaa and Jupiter - the Dhana Kaarakaa. All the other

bhaavaas have been found to get affected by this syndrome.

In practical situations, you may feel that this dictum does not work

when we do not analyze the situation completely. For instance, let

us take Moon in the 4th house.....By this dictum the 4th Bhava

results should be ordinary. Moon is the natural karaka for Mother.

It does not mean that the mother of the native will get afflicted or

the relationship will not be smooth. The Bhavartha Ratnakara

clearly says " the bhavas will give very little of their

indications " . Thus it can manifest in various forms as below:

1) The mother might die early (only if other factors in the

horoscope also indicate such an eventuality) .

2) The delivery might have been very complicated.

3) The marital felicity of the mother might have been reduced after

the native's birth(no native will be able to say whether this is

true or not because these are subtle things and subtleties of

marital life of parents are not always well known to children and

their perceptions may not always be correct).

4) The native might be too attached to mother, yet may have to live

away from one's mother/ motherland for long periods of time.

5) The native's prospects show marked improvement after some

painful event in mother's life. It is almost like sacrifice on the

part of the mother augmenting the yoga of the native.

6) In some cases, the mother is working day and night to support

the native; but as a consequence the mother may not be able to offer

the tender touch and quality time required for the infant (this

happens with single mothers who go to work to support their family

or in cases where the family is undergoing a tough time and the

mother gets to spend only very little time with the child due to

other preoccupations though the affection is there).

Many persons take just one context of these possibilities and argue

that this dictum has not worked in their lives. If we analyze it

pragmatically, we will be able to find that there is " something "

lacking with respect to the bhava whose karaka occupies it.

As mentioned earlier in this post, Jupiter as dhanakaaraka and

Saturn as ayush kaarakaa actually promote their respective bhaavaas.

There is another added rider with Jupiter in the 2nd house......If

other dhana yogas do not support this combination, the acquisition

of wealth shown by Jupiter is usually not a contributor for the

native's own happiness but rather may be useful only for others!

Jupiter is a self-sacrificing planet which spoils the house in which

it is located but promotes the houses which it aspects.

Let us see about Sun - the kaaraka of the ascendant... ..

Sun in the ascendant will give the native a regal bearing and

commanding presence which gains respect. However, the personal life

of the native is painful due to failed expectations and shattered

dreams. I can vouchsafe for this with my experience with thousands

of highly successful persons who seem to be successful, blessed with

respectful appearance, status, etc. but endure silent misery that

cannot be understood or emphathized by others. Of course, the house

rulership of Sun can modify this to some extent. But the fact

remains that the success and status of the native will be more

helpful for those around him/ her rather than to the native himself/

herself.

Akin to the " Kaarako Bhaava naashaya " there is another dictum also

from " Bhaavartha Ratnaakara " itself.....It deals with " when a bhava

gets strengthened and gives maximum results pertaining to its

significations to a native " ....

It appears in Chapter 12, stanza 1:

" All bhaavaas whose lords are in conjunction with the respective

kaarakaas become strong " .

Thus lagna becomes strong and significations of the lagna are

experienced in full by the native positively if the lagna lord is in

conjunction with Sun.

2nd house significations can be experienced fruitfully by the native

if 2nd lord is in conjunction with Jupiter.

I hope this post clarifies things.

Blessed be.

Pandit R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI.

______________________________\

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April 6, 2007

dear dakshinamoorthiji

thanks for confirming that it is the natural bhavakarakas and not

bhavadhipatis that do " nasha " to that bhava when placed in it.

few medieval (not ancient) classics and recently published books

mention many many yogas and theories which do not find place in the

ancient classics. this KBN is a " theory " as aptly put by you.

all the ancient as well as medieval classics describe the results of

the bhavas and natural bhavakarakas and the results of the

bhavakaraka placed in the natural karaka bhava. all of them are

positive. hence this KBN theory is in complete contradiction with

what the same classics mention.

to mention so many overriding rules and to gaze through a maze of so

many other factors to know the result of a planet placed in a bhava

is not what the sages have ever imagined. they mentioned in simple

sanskrit verses what a planet (including the natural bhavakarakas)

gives when it is placed in a bhava (including the natural

karakabhavas). all these are positive.

unfortunately i dont find any logic in this KBN theory according to

which sun in lagna, moon in chaturtha or jupiter if panchama

causing " nasha " to the respective houses.

recently one member went to the extent of saying that jupiter, the

naturalkaraka of 5th bhava if placed in 5th house does not get

children to the native. many members reverted saying they have

hundreds of customers database who have children even after having

jupiter in 5th house. well, one may explore and find various other

reasons e.g. conjunctions, aspects etc. and find out exception rules

even when 99 of the 100 charts does not support this KBN theory.

here i support RRji when he said that it is best if we all

astrologers search out databases and find whether this KBN theory

works. i did my homework well and the KBN theory does not work.

there is a sanskrit saying

yuktiyuktam vako grahyam baladapi sukadapi

yuktiheenam vako tyajyam vrudhadapi sukadapi

what is illogical to me may be logical to others and they are at

liberty to stick to what they believe is logical.

my above observations are purely academic in nature and i enjoy

fraternal love with all members alike, hence kindly treat this only

as an agreement or disagreemnt on a view.

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

www.rudraksharemedy.com

vedic astrology , " dakshinastrologer "

<dakshinastrologer wrote:

>

> Dear Members:

>

> I have been following the thread on " Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya " with

> interest. On the one hand, some members feel it is one of

> the " invented " or " recently developed " spurious dictum. Of course,

> there are others who swear by that! This is one of the most

> misunderstood and wrongly applied techniques in predictive

> astrology. So, I thought I will clarify it as far as I have

> understood it from my reading of the classics and will also

> give " classical evidence " for the theory (this is not a recently

> invented theory; this is one of the many dictums that were more

> commonly known and not codified in the earlier compediums of

> astrology like BPHS. BPHS does not mention many yogas/ doshas/

> dictums which I presume may be due to the fact that in those days

> only the basics were taught to everyone and advanced techniques

were

> always preserved by word of mouth. In certain cases, those dictums

> were too well-known in that culture and there was no need for the

> illustrious sage to codify it in his illustrious work; there was no

> need for it as the knowledge was wide-spread).

>

> Now regarding " Kaarako Bhava Naasaya " ....Chapter 2, Stanza 9 of

> Bhavaartha Ratnaakara (reputed to have been composed by

> Ramanujacharya Himself) says

>

> " sarveshu Bhaavasthaaneshu tatad Bhaavaadhikaarkah

> vidyate tasya bhaavasya phalam swalpam udheeritham "

>

> It means that if the different kaarakas are present in their

> respective bhaavaas, such bhaavaas lose their vitality and give

rise

> to very little of their indications.

>

> This applies more to the natural kaarakaas and not

> the " bhaavaadipathis " , i.e., we should not confuse the house owner

> with the house kaarakaa!

>

> Tradition has it that this rule has its exception in Saturn - the

> 8th house kaarakaa and Jupiter - the Dhana Kaarakaa. All the other

> bhaavaas have been found to get affected by this syndrome.

>

> In practical situations, you may feel that this dictum does not

work

> when we do not analyze the situation completely. For instance, let

> us take Moon in the 4th house.....By this dictum the 4th Bhava

> results should be ordinary. Moon is the natural karaka for

Mother.

> It does not mean that the mother of the native will get afflicted

or

> the relationship will not be smooth. The Bhavartha Ratnakara

> clearly says " the bhavas will give very little of their

> indications " . Thus it can manifest in various forms as below:

>

> 1) The mother might die early (only if other factors in the

> horoscope also indicate such an eventuality).

> 2) The delivery might have been very complicated.

> 3) The marital felicity of the mother might have been reduced

after

> the native's birth(no native will be able to say whether this is

> true or not because these are subtle things and subtleties of

> marital life of parents are not always well known to children and

> their perceptions may not always be correct).

> 4) The native might be too attached to mother, yet may have to

live

> away from one's mother/ motherland for long periods of time.

> 5) The native's prospects show marked improvement after some

> painful event in mother's life. It is almost like sacrifice on the

> part of the mother augmenting the yoga of the native.

> 6) In some cases, the mother is working day and night to support

> the native; but as a consequence the mother may not be able to

offer

> the tender touch and quality time required for the infant (this

> happens with single mothers who go to work to support their family

> or in cases where the family is undergoing a tough time and the

> mother gets to spend only very little time with the child due to

> other preoccupations though the affection is there).

>

> Many persons take just one context of these possibilities and argue

> that this dictum has not worked in their lives. If we analyze it

> pragmatically, we will be able to find that there is " something "

> lacking with respect to the bhava whose karaka occupies it.

>

> As mentioned earlier in this post, Jupiter as dhanakaaraka and

> Saturn as ayush kaarakaa actually promote their respective

bhaavaas.

> There is another added rider with Jupiter in the 2nd house......If

> other dhana yogas do not support this combination, the acquisition

> of wealth shown by Jupiter is usually not a contributor for the

> native's own happiness but rather may be useful only for others!

> Jupiter is a self-sacrificing planet which spoils the house in

which

> it is located but promotes the houses which it aspects.

>

> Let us see about Sun - the kaaraka of the ascendant.....

>

> Sun in the ascendant will give the native a regal bearing and

> commanding presence which gains respect. However, the personal

life

> of the native is painful due to failed expectations and shattered

> dreams. I can vouchsafe for this with my experience with thousands

> of highly successful persons who seem to be successful, blessed

with

> respectful appearance, status, etc. but endure silent misery that

> cannot be understood or emphathized by others. Of course, the

house

> rulership of Sun can modify this to some extent. But the fact

> remains that the success and status of the native will be more

> helpful for those around him/ her rather than to the native

himself/

> herself.

>

> Akin to the " Kaarako Bhaava naashaya " there is another dictum also

> from " Bhaavartha Ratnaakara " itself.....It deals with " when a bhava

> gets strengthened and gives maximum results pertaining to its

> significations to a native " ....

>

> It appears in Chapter 12, stanza 1:

>

> " All bhaavaas whose lords are in conjunction with the respective

> kaarakaas become strong " .

>

> Thus lagna becomes strong and significations of the lagna are

> experienced in full by the native positively if the lagna lord is

in

> conjunction with Sun.

>

> 2nd house significations can be experienced fruitfully by the

native

> if 2nd lord is in conjunction with Jupiter.

>

> I hope this post clarifies things.

>

> Blessed be.

> Pandit R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI.

>

April 6, 2007

Dear Arjunji,

I am in agreement with you regarding there being some logical (as

opposed to faith-based) basis in the astrology we practice. I say

this not with arrogance but the admittance that if I cannot see some

logic in tenets that I use, and this could be my failing or

shortcoming, but I would not feel comfortable in using such tenets to

give readings to those who approach me. Readings which may have

serious impacts on their lives or decision-making.

I am a bit surprised that there was any confusion in the minds here

in confusing between karakas and rulers, which made Mr.

Dakshinamoorthy to issue a cautionary note. When I wrote 'which

karaka' as being the first thing a researcher in KBN theory

(Postulate is probably a more appropriate label!) should examine,

this is what I meant. There are more than one type of karakas defined

in traditional jyotish.

RR

vedic astrology , " panditarjun2004 "

<panditarjun2004 wrote:

>

> dear dakshinamoorthiji

>

> thanks for confirming that it is the natural bhavakarakas and not

> bhavadhipatis that do " nasha " to that bhava when placed in it.

>

> few medieval (not ancient) classics and recently published books

> mention many many yogas and theories which do not find place in the

> ancient classics. this KBN is a " theory " as aptly put by you.

>

> all the ancient as well as medieval classics describe the results

of

> the bhavas and natural bhavakarakas and the results of the

> bhavakaraka placed in the natural karaka bhava. all of them are

> positive. hence this KBN theory is in complete contradiction with

> what the same classics mention.

>

> to mention so many overriding rules and to gaze through a maze of

so

> many other factors to know the result of a planet placed in a bhava

> is not what the sages have ever imagined. they mentioned in simple

> sanskrit verses what a planet (including the natural bhavakarakas)

> gives when it is placed in a bhava (including the natural

> karakabhavas). all these are positive.

>

> unfortunately i dont find any logic in this KBN theory according to

> which sun in lagna, moon in chaturtha or jupiter if panchama

> causing " nasha " to the respective houses.

>

> recently one member went to the extent of saying that jupiter, the

> naturalkaraka of 5th bhava if placed in 5th house does not get

> children to the native. many members reverted saying they have

> hundreds of customers database who have children even after having

> jupiter in 5th house. well, one may explore and find various other

> reasons e.g. conjunctions, aspects etc. and find out exception

rules

> even when 99 of the 100 charts does not support this KBN theory.

>

> here i support RRji when he said that it is best if we all

> astrologers search out databases and find whether this KBN theory

> works. i did my homework well and the KBN theory does not work.

>

> there is a sanskrit saying

>

> yuktiyuktam vako grahyam baladapi sukadapi

> yuktiheenam vako tyajyam vrudhadapi sukadapi

>

> what is illogical to me may be logical to others and they are at

> liberty to stick to what they believe is logical.

>

> my above observations are purely academic in nature and i enjoy

> fraternal love with all members alike, hence kindly treat this only

> as an agreement or disagreemnt on a view.

>

> with best wishes and blessings

> pandit arjun

> www.rudraksharemedy.com

>

> vedic astrology , " dakshinastrologer "

> <dakshinastrologer@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Members:

> >

> > I have been following the thread on " Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya " with

> > interest. On the one hand, some members feel it is one of

> > the " invented " or " recently developed " spurious dictum. Of

course,

> > there are others who swear by that! This is one of the most

> > misunderstood and wrongly applied techniques in predictive

> > astrology. So, I thought I will clarify it as far as I have

> > understood it from my reading of the classics and will also

> > give " classical evidence " for the theory (this is not a recently

> > invented theory; this is one of the many dictums that were more

> > commonly known and not codified in the earlier compediums of

> > astrology like BPHS. BPHS does not mention many yogas/ doshas/

> > dictums which I presume may be due to the fact that in those days

> > only the basics were taught to everyone and advanced techniques

> were

> > always preserved by word of mouth. In certain cases, those

dictums

> > were too well-known in that culture and there was no need for the

> > illustrious sage to codify it in his illustrious work; there was

no

> > need for it as the knowledge was wide-spread).

> >

> > Now regarding " Kaarako Bhava Naasaya " ....Chapter 2, Stanza 9 of

> > Bhavaartha Ratnaakara (reputed to have been composed by

> > Ramanujacharya Himself) says

> >

> > " sarveshu Bhaavasthaaneshu tatad Bhaavaadhikaarkah

> > vidyate tasya bhaavasya phalam swalpam udheeritham "

> >

> > It means that if the different kaarakas are present in their

> > respective bhaavaas, such bhaavaas lose their vitality and give

> rise

> > to very little of their indications.

> >

> > This applies more to the natural kaarakaas and not

> > the " bhaavaadipathis " , i.e., we should not confuse the house

owner

> > with the house kaarakaa!

> >

> > Tradition has it that this rule has its exception in Saturn - the

> > 8th house kaarakaa and Jupiter - the Dhana Kaarakaa. All the

other

> > bhaavaas have been found to get affected by this syndrome.

> >

> > In practical situations, you may feel that this dictum does not

> work

> > when we do not analyze the situation completely. For instance,

let

> > us take Moon in the 4th house.....By this dictum the 4th Bhava

> > results should be ordinary. Moon is the natural karaka for

> Mother.

> > It does not mean that the mother of the native will get afflicted

> or

> > the relationship will not be smooth. The Bhavartha Ratnakara

> > clearly says " the bhavas will give very little of their

> > indications " . Thus it can manifest in various forms as below:

> >

> > 1) The mother might die early (only if other factors in the

> > horoscope also indicate such an eventuality).

> > 2) The delivery might have been very complicated.

> > 3) The marital felicity of the mother might have been reduced

> after

> > the native's birth(no native will be able to say whether this is

> > true or not because these are subtle things and subtleties of

> > marital life of parents are not always well known to children and

> > their perceptions may not always be correct).

> > 4) The native might be too attached to mother, yet may have to

> live

> > away from one's mother/ motherland for long periods of time.

> > 5) The native's prospects show marked improvement after some

> > painful event in mother's life. It is almost like sacrifice on

the

> > part of the mother augmenting the yoga of the native.

> > 6) In some cases, the mother is working day and night to support

> > the native; but as a consequence the mother may not be able to

> offer

> > the tender touch and quality time required for the infant (this

> > happens with single mothers who go to work to support their

family

> > or in cases where the family is undergoing a tough time and the

> > mother gets to spend only very little time with the child due to

> > other preoccupations though the affection is there).

> >

> > Many persons take just one context of these possibilities and

argue

> > that this dictum has not worked in their lives. If we analyze it

> > pragmatically, we will be able to find that there is " something "

> > lacking with respect to the bhava whose karaka occupies it.

> >

> > As mentioned earlier in this post, Jupiter as dhanakaaraka and

> > Saturn as ayush kaarakaa actually promote their respective

> bhaavaas.

> > There is another added rider with Jupiter in the 2nd

house......If

> > other dhana yogas do not support this combination, the

acquisition

> > of wealth shown by Jupiter is usually not a contributor for the

> > native's own happiness but rather may be useful only for others!

> > Jupiter is a self-sacrificing planet which spoils the house in

> which

> > it is located but promotes the houses which it aspects.

> >

> > Let us see about Sun - the kaaraka of the ascendant.....

> >

> > Sun in the ascendant will give the native a regal bearing and

> > commanding presence which gains respect. However, the personal

> life

> > of the native is painful due to failed expectations and shattered

> > dreams. I can vouchsafe for this with my experience with

thousands

> > of highly successful persons who seem to be successful, blessed

> with

> > respectful appearance, status, etc. but endure silent misery that

> > cannot be understood or emphathized by others. Of course, the

> house

> > rulership of Sun can modify this to some extent. But the fact

> > remains that the success and status of the native will be more

> > helpful for those around him/ her rather than to the native

> himself/

> > herself.

> >

> > Akin to the " Kaarako Bhaava naashaya " there is another dictum

also

> > from " Bhaavartha Ratnaakara " itself.....It deals with " when a

bhava

> > gets strengthened and gives maximum results pertaining to its

> > significations to a native " ....

> >

> > It appears in Chapter 12, stanza 1:

> >

> > " All bhaavaas whose lords are in conjunction with the respective

> > kaarakaas become strong " .

> >

> > Thus lagna becomes strong and significations of the lagna are

> > experienced in full by the native positively if the lagna lord is

> in

> > conjunction with Sun.

> >

> > 2nd house significations can be experienced fruitfully by the

> native

> > if 2nd lord is in conjunction with Jupiter.

> >

> > I hope this post clarifies things.

> >

> > Blessed be.

> > Pandit R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI.

> >

>

April 6, 2007

dear RRji

unfortunately general results are given for general placement of

planets by the sages. a man with a strong sun in lagna having

rulership or even a king is a positive trait blessed by planet sun.

however, others may rue that a king is committed in his duty to

protect the natives in his kingdom and hence he is a 24 hour servant

(like our ministers) who is deprived of ordinary comforts a layman

enjoys. so even a king is not spared in getting attributed as

getting negative results.

the sages (trikalajnanis) were simple in their preachings. just

close your eyes and you are able to see the past, present and

future. of course there were incidents when even sages could not see

the PRESENT e.g. indra duped saged gautam to sleep with his wife.

unfortunately modern astrologers made it a maze of so many ambivalent

contradictory rules and theories which even abhimanyu find difficult

to come out easily. one reason why astrology is not a curriculum in

the government studies and not accepted as a subject even by the

indian government is because of these maze of contradictions and

diverse systems whereas astronomy is a subject beause the science and

world community has accepted it as an established truth.

since vedic astrology is squarely based on hindu mythology, it is a

matter of belief and faith. if harry potter is the bestseller in the

entire world and if the entire world start liking these mythological

beliefs, yes all those who believe in mythology will believe in

astrology too. by writing for and against theories and accepting

criticism and sharing information on agreeing and disagreeing on

various astro principles, we are all spreading the LIGHT OF ASTROLOGY

which is JYOTISH.

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

www.rudraksharemedy.com

vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Dear Arjunji,

>

> I am in agreement with you regarding there being some logical (as

> opposed to faith-based) basis in the astrology we practice. I say

> this not with arrogance but the admittance that if I cannot see

some

> logic in tenets that I use, and this could be my failing or

> shortcoming, but I would not feel comfortable in using such tenets

to

> give readings to those who approach me. Readings which may have

> serious impacts on their lives or decision-making.

>

> I am a bit surprised that there was any confusion in the minds here

> in confusing between karakas and rulers, which made Mr.

> Dakshinamoorthy to issue a cautionary note. When I wrote 'which

> karaka' as being the first thing a researcher in KBN theory

> (Postulate is probably a more appropriate label!) should examine,

> this is what I meant. There are more than one type of karakas

defined

> in traditional jyotish.

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology , " panditarjun2004 "

> <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> >

> > dear dakshinamoorthiji

> >

> > thanks for confirming that it is the natural bhavakarakas and not

> > bhavadhipatis that do " nasha " to that bhava when placed in it.

> >

> > few medieval (not ancient) classics and recently published books

> > mention many many yogas and theories which do not find place in

the

> > ancient classics. this KBN is a " theory " as aptly put by you.

> >

> > all the ancient as well as medieval classics describe the results

> of

> > the bhavas and natural bhavakarakas and the results of the

> > bhavakaraka placed in the natural karaka bhava. all of them are

> > positive. hence this KBN theory is in complete contradiction

with

> > what the same classics mention.

> >

> > to mention so many overriding rules and to gaze through a maze of

> so

> > many other factors to know the result of a planet placed in a

bhava

> > is not what the sages have ever imagined. they mentioned in

simple

> > sanskrit verses what a planet (including the natural

bhavakarakas)

> > gives when it is placed in a bhava (including the natural

> > karakabhavas). all these are positive.

> >

> > unfortunately i dont find any logic in this KBN theory according

to

> > which sun in lagna, moon in chaturtha or jupiter if panchama

> > causing " nasha " to the respective houses.

> >

> > recently one member went to the extent of saying that jupiter,

the

> > naturalkaraka of 5th bhava if placed in 5th house does not get

> > children to the native. many members reverted saying they have

> > hundreds of customers database who have children even after

having

> > jupiter in 5th house. well, one may explore and find various

other

> > reasons e.g. conjunctions, aspects etc. and find out exception

> rules

> > even when 99 of the 100 charts does not support this KBN theory.

> >

> > here i support RRji when he said that it is best if we all

> > astrologers search out databases and find whether this KBN theory

> > works. i did my homework well and the KBN theory does not work.

> >

> > there is a sanskrit saying

> >

> > yuktiyuktam vako grahyam baladapi sukadapi

> > yuktiheenam vako tyajyam vrudhadapi sukadapi

> >

> > what is illogical to me may be logical to others and they are at

> > liberty to stick to what they believe is logical.

> >

> > my above observations are purely academic in nature and i enjoy

> > fraternal love with all members alike, hence kindly treat this

only

> > as an agreement or disagreemnt on a view.

> >

> > with best wishes and blessings

> > pandit arjun

> > www.rudraksharemedy.com

> >

> > vedic astrology , " dakshinastrologer "

> > <dakshinastrologer@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Members:

> > >

> > > I have been following the thread on " Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya "

with

> > > interest. On the one hand, some members feel it is one of

> > > the " invented " or " recently developed " spurious dictum. Of

> course,

> > > there are others who swear by that! This is one of the most

> > > misunderstood and wrongly applied techniques in predictive

> > > astrology. So, I thought I will clarify it as far as I have

> > > understood it from my reading of the classics and will also

> > > give " classical evidence " for the theory (this is not a

recently

> > > invented theory; this is one of the many dictums that were more

> > > commonly known and not codified in the earlier compediums of

> > > astrology like BPHS. BPHS does not mention many yogas/ doshas/

> > > dictums which I presume may be due to the fact that in those

days

> > > only the basics were taught to everyone and advanced techniques

> > were

> > > always preserved by word of mouth. In certain cases, those

> dictums

> > > were too well-known in that culture and there was no need for

the

> > > illustrious sage to codify it in his illustrious work; there

was

> no

> > > need for it as the knowledge was wide-spread).

> > >

> > > Now regarding " Kaarako Bhava Naasaya " ....Chapter 2, Stanza 9 of

> > > Bhavaartha Ratnaakara (reputed to have been composed by

> > > Ramanujacharya Himself) says

> > >

> > > " sarveshu Bhaavasthaaneshu tatad Bhaavaadhikaarkah

> > > vidyate tasya bhaavasya phalam swalpam udheeritham "

> > >

> > > It means that if the different kaarakas are present in their

> > > respective bhaavaas, such bhaavaas lose their vitality and give

> > rise

> > > to very little of their indications.

> > >

> > > This applies more to the natural kaarakaas and not

> > > the " bhaavaadipathis " , i.e., we should not confuse the house

> owner

> > > with the house kaarakaa!

> > >

> > > Tradition has it that this rule has its exception in Saturn -

the

> > > 8th house kaarakaa and Jupiter - the Dhana Kaarakaa. All the

> other

> > > bhaavaas have been found to get affected by this syndrome.

> > >

> > > In practical situations, you may feel that this dictum does not

> > work

> > > when we do not analyze the situation completely. For instance,

> let

> > > us take Moon in the 4th house.....By this dictum the 4th Bhava

> > > results should be ordinary. Moon is the natural karaka for

> > Mother.

> > > It does not mean that the mother of the native will get

afflicted

> > or

> > > the relationship will not be smooth. The Bhavartha Ratnakara

> > > clearly says " the bhavas will give very little of their

> > > indications " . Thus it can manifest in various forms as below:

> > >

> > > 1) The mother might die early (only if other factors in the

> > > horoscope also indicate such an eventuality).

> > > 2) The delivery might have been very complicated.

> > > 3) The marital felicity of the mother might have been reduced

> > after

> > > the native's birth(no native will be able to say whether this

is

> > > true or not because these are subtle things and subtleties of

> > > marital life of parents are not always well known to children

and

> > > their perceptions may not always be correct).

> > > 4) The native might be too attached to mother, yet may have to

> > live

> > > away from one's mother/ motherland for long periods of time.

> > > 5) The native's prospects show marked improvement after some

> > > painful event in mother's life. It is almost like sacrifice on

> the

> > > part of the mother augmenting the yoga of the native.

> > > 6) In some cases, the mother is working day and night to

support

> > > the native; but as a consequence the mother may not be able to

> > offer

> > > the tender touch and quality time required for the infant (this

> > > happens with single mothers who go to work to support their

> family

> > > or in cases where the family is undergoing a tough time and the

> > > mother gets to spend only very little time with the child due

to

> > > other preoccupations though the affection is there).

> > >

> > > Many persons take just one context of these possibilities and

> argue

> > > that this dictum has not worked in their lives. If we analyze

it

> > > pragmatically, we will be able to find that there

is " something "

> > > lacking with respect to the bhava whose karaka occupies it.

> > >

> > > As mentioned earlier in this post, Jupiter as dhanakaaraka and

> > > Saturn as ayush kaarakaa actually promote their respective

> > bhaavaas.

> > > There is another added rider with Jupiter in the 2nd

> house......If

> > > other dhana yogas do not support this combination, the

> acquisition

> > > of wealth shown by Jupiter is usually not a contributor for the

> > > native's own happiness but rather may be useful only for

others!

> > > Jupiter is a self-sacrificing planet which spoils the house in

> > which

> > > it is located but promotes the houses which it aspects.

> > >

> > > Let us see about Sun - the kaaraka of the ascendant.....

> > >

> > > Sun in the ascendant will give the native a regal bearing and

> > > commanding presence which gains respect. However, the personal

> > life

> > > of the native is painful due to failed expectations and

shattered

> > > dreams. I can vouchsafe for this with my experience with

> thousands

> > > of highly successful persons who seem to be successful, blessed

> > with

> > > respectful appearance, status, etc. but endure silent misery

that

> > > cannot be understood or emphathized by others. Of course, the

> > house

> > > rulership of Sun can modify this to some extent. But the fact

> > > remains that the success and status of the native will be more

> > > helpful for those around him/ her rather than to the native

> > himself/

> > > herself.

> > >

> > > Akin to the " Kaarako Bhaava naashaya " there is another dictum

> also

> > > from " Bhaavartha Ratnaakara " itself.....It deals with " when a

> bhava

> > > gets strengthened and gives maximum results pertaining to its

> > > significations to a native " ....

> > >

> > > It appears in Chapter 12, stanza 1:

> > >

> > > " All bhaavaas whose lords are in conjunction with the

respective

> > > kaarakaas become strong " .

> > >

> > > Thus lagna becomes strong and significations of the lagna are

> > > experienced in full by the native positively if the lagna lord

is

> > in

> > > conjunction with Sun.

> > >

> > > 2nd house significations can be experienced fruitfully by the

> > native

> > > if 2nd lord is in conjunction with Jupiter.

> > >

> > > I hope this post clarifies things.

> > >

> > > Blessed be.

> > > Pandit R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI.

> > >

> >

>

April 6, 2007

Dear Arjun ji,

I hear you!

My own understanding is very similar, that Jyotishis of yore were

more directly attuned to the Jyotish reality. Unlike many if not most

of us jyotishis of the world, often by circumstances but not choice.

Those of us who have bravely managed to embrace the spiritual reality

and spiritual life are to be admired and not to be envied, is how I

look at it.

Since Ancient Jyotishis perhaps had a more direct connection with

Mother Nature, in a sense they had strong inner instincts and when

they viewed a chart (perhaps often in their mind's eyes, being

spiritual giants), their awareness which naturally included

observation, logic and KNOWING made them look at indicators and then

they did not have to do all the weighting and inner debating that

some of us do, while still others do externally on jyotish discussion

forums. Some of it gets noisy and contradictory and becomes counter-

productive -- particularly for the beginner whose belief and

allegience runs from pillar to post (one jyotishi teacher to another)

and when he or she should be running from chart to chart, instead!

RR

vedic astrology , " panditarjun2004 "

<panditarjun2004 wrote:

>

> dear RRji

>

> unfortunately general results are given for general placement of

> planets by the sages. a man with a strong sun in lagna having

> rulership or even a king is a positive trait blessed by planet

sun.

> however, others may rue that a king is committed in his duty to

> protect the natives in his kingdom and hence he is a 24 hour

servant

> (like our ministers) who is deprived of ordinary comforts a layman

> enjoys. so even a king is not spared in getting attributed as

> getting negative results.

>

> the sages (trikalajnanis) were simple in their preachings. just

> close your eyes and you are able to see the past, present and

> future. of course there were incidents when even sages could not

see

> the PRESENT e.g. indra duped saged gautam to sleep with his wife.

>

> unfortunately modern astrologers made it a maze of so many

ambivalent

> contradictory rules and theories which even abhimanyu find

difficult

> to come out easily. one reason why astrology is not a curriculum

in

> the government studies and not accepted as a subject even by the

> indian government is because of these maze of contradictions and

> diverse systems whereas astronomy is a subject beause the science

and

> world community has accepted it as an established truth.

>

> since vedic astrology is squarely based on hindu mythology, it is a

> matter of belief and faith. if harry potter is the bestseller in

the

> entire world and if the entire world start liking these

mythological

> beliefs, yes all those who believe in mythology will believe in

> astrology too. by writing for and against theories and accepting

> criticism and sharing information on agreeing and disagreeing on

> various astro principles, we are all spreading the LIGHT OF

ASTROLOGY

> which is JYOTISH.

>

> with best wishes and blessings

> pandit arjun

> www.rudraksharemedy.com

>

> vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan "

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Arjunji,

> >

> > I am in agreement with you regarding there being some logical (as

> > opposed to faith-based) basis in the astrology we practice. I say

> > this not with arrogance but the admittance that if I cannot see

> some

> > logic in tenets that I use, and this could be my failing or

> > shortcoming, but I would not feel comfortable in using such

tenets

> to

> > give readings to those who approach me. Readings which may have

> > serious impacts on their lives or decision-making.

> >

> > I am a bit surprised that there was any confusion in the minds

here

> > in confusing between karakas and rulers, which made Mr.

> > Dakshinamoorthy to issue a cautionary note. When I wrote 'which

> > karaka' as being the first thing a researcher in KBN theory

> > (Postulate is probably a more appropriate label!) should examine,

> > this is what I meant. There are more than one type of karakas

> defined

> > in traditional jyotish.

> >

> > RR

> >

> > vedic astrology , " panditarjun2004 "

> > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > >

> > > dear dakshinamoorthiji

> > >

> > > thanks for confirming that it is the natural bhavakarakas and

not

> > > bhavadhipatis that do " nasha " to that bhava when placed in it.

> > >

> > > few medieval (not ancient) classics and recently published

books

> > > mention many many yogas and theories which do not find place in

> the

> > > ancient classics. this KBN is a " theory " as aptly put by you.

> > >

> > > all the ancient as well as medieval classics describe the

results

> > of

> > > the bhavas and natural bhavakarakas and the results of the

> > > bhavakaraka placed in the natural karaka bhava. all of them

are

> > > positive. hence this KBN theory is in complete contradiction

> with

> > > what the same classics mention.

> > >

> > > to mention so many overriding rules and to gaze through a maze

of

> > so

> > > many other factors to know the result of a planet placed in a

> bhava

> > > is not what the sages have ever imagined. they mentioned in

> simple

> > > sanskrit verses what a planet (including the natural

> bhavakarakas)

> > > gives when it is placed in a bhava (including the natural

> > > karakabhavas). all these are positive.

> > >

> > > unfortunately i dont find any logic in this KBN theory

according

> to

> > > which sun in lagna, moon in chaturtha or jupiter if panchama

> > > causing " nasha " to the respective houses.

> > >

> > > recently one member went to the extent of saying that jupiter,

> the

> > > naturalkaraka of 5th bhava if placed in 5th house does not get

> > > children to the native. many members reverted saying they have

> > > hundreds of customers database who have children even after

> having

> > > jupiter in 5th house. well, one may explore and find various

> other

> > > reasons e.g. conjunctions, aspects etc. and find out exception

> > rules

> > > even when 99 of the 100 charts does not support this KBN theory.

> > >

> > > here i support RRji when he said that it is best if we all

> > > astrologers search out databases and find whether this KBN

theory

> > > works. i did my homework well and the KBN theory does not work.

> > >

> > > there is a sanskrit saying

> > >

> > > yuktiyuktam vako grahyam baladapi sukadapi

> > > yuktiheenam vako tyajyam vrudhadapi sukadapi

> > >

> > > what is illogical to me may be logical to others and they are

at

> > > liberty to stick to what they believe is logical.

> > >

> > > my above observations are purely academic in nature and i enjoy

> > > fraternal love with all members alike, hence kindly treat this

> only

> > > as an agreement or disagreemnt on a view.

> > >

> > > with best wishes and blessings

> > > pandit arjun

> > > www.rudraksharemedy.com

> > >

> > > vedic astrology , " dakshinastrologer "

> > > <dakshinastrologer@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Members:

> > > >

> > > > I have been following the thread on " Kaarako Bhaava Naasaya "

> with

> > > > interest. On the one hand, some members feel it is one of

> > > > the " invented " or " recently developed " spurious dictum. Of

> > course,

> > > > there are others who swear by that! This is one of the most

> > > > misunderstood and wrongly applied techniques in predictive

> > > > astrology. So, I thought I will clarify it as far as I have

> > > > understood it from my reading of the classics and will also

> > > > give " classical evidence " for the theory (this is not a

> recently

> > > > invented theory; this is one of the many dictums that were

more

> > > > commonly known and not codified in the earlier compediums of

> > > > astrology like BPHS. BPHS does not mention many yogas/

doshas/

> > > > dictums which I presume may be due to the fact that in those

> days

> > > > only the basics were taught to everyone and advanced

techniques

> > > were

> > > > always preserved by word of mouth. In certain cases, those

> > dictums

> > > > were too well-known in that culture and there was no need for

> the

> > > > illustrious sage to codify it in his illustrious work; there

> was

> > no

> > > > need for it as the knowledge was wide-spread).

> > > >

> > > > Now regarding " Kaarako Bhava Naasaya " ....Chapter 2, Stanza 9

of

> > > > Bhavaartha Ratnaakara (reputed to have been composed by

> > > > Ramanujacharya Himself) says

> > > >

> > > > " sarveshu Bhaavasthaaneshu tatad Bhaavaadhikaarkah

> > > > vidyate tasya bhaavasya phalam swalpam udheeritham "

> > > >

> > > > It means that if the different kaarakas are present in their

> > > > respective bhaavaas, such bhaavaas lose their vitality and

give

> > > rise

> > > > to very little of their indications.

> > > >

> > > > This applies more to the natural kaarakaas and not

> > > > the " bhaavaadipathis " , i.e., we should not confuse the house

> > owner

> > > > with the house kaarakaa!

> > > >

> > > > Tradition has it that this rule has its exception in Saturn -

> the

> > > > 8th house kaarakaa and Jupiter - the Dhana Kaarakaa. All the

> > other

> > > > bhaavaas have been found to get affected by this syndrome.

> > > >

> > > > In practical situations, you may feel that this dictum does

not

> > > work

> > > > when we do not analyze the situation completely. For

instance,

> > let

> > > > us take Moon in the 4th house.....By this dictum the 4th

Bhava

> > > > results should be ordinary. Moon is the natural karaka for

> > > Mother.

> > > > It does not mean that the mother of the native will get

> afflicted

> > > or

> > > > the relationship will not be smooth. The Bhavartha Ratnakara

> > > > clearly says " the bhavas will give very little of their

> > > > indications " . Thus it can manifest in various forms as below:

> > > >

> > > > 1) The mother might die early (only if other factors in the

> > > > horoscope also indicate such an eventuality).

> > > > 2) The delivery might have been very complicated.

> > > > 3) The marital felicity of the mother might have been

reduced

> > > after

> > > > the native's birth(no native will be able to say whether this

> is

> > > > true or not because these are subtle things and subtleties of

> > > > marital life of parents are not always well known to children

> and

> > > > their perceptions may not always be correct).

> > > > 4) The native might be too attached to mother, yet may have

to

> > > live

> > > > away from one's mother/ motherland for long periods of time.

> > > > 5) The native's prospects show marked improvement after some

> > > > painful event in mother's life. It is almost like sacrifice

on

> > the

> > > > part of the mother augmenting the yoga of the native.

> > > > 6) In some cases, the mother is working day and night to

> support

> > > > the native; but as a consequence the mother may not be able

to

> > > offer

> > > > the tender touch and quality time required for the infant

(this

> > > > happens with single mothers who go to work to support their

> > family

> > > > or in cases where the family is undergoing a tough time and

the

> > > > mother gets to spend only very little time with the child due

> to

> > > > other preoccupations though the affection is there).

> > > >

> > > > Many persons take just one context of these possibilities and

> > argue

> > > > that this dictum has not worked in their lives. If we

analyze

> it

> > > > pragmatically, we will be able to find that there

> is " something "

> > > > lacking with respect to the bhava whose karaka occupies it.

> > > >

> > > > As mentioned earlier in this post, Jupiter as dhanakaaraka

and

> > > > Saturn as ayush kaarakaa actually promote their respective

> > > bhaavaas.

> > > > There is another added rider with Jupiter in the 2nd

> > house......If

> > > > other dhana yogas do not support this combination, the

> > acquisition

> > > > of wealth shown by Jupiter is usually not a contributor for

the

> > > > native's own happiness but rather may be useful only for

> others!

> > > > Jupiter is a self-sacrificing planet which spoils the house

in

> > > which

> > > > it is located but promotes the houses which it aspects.

> > > >

> > > > Let us see about Sun - the kaaraka of the ascendant.....

> > > >

> > > > Sun in the ascendant will give the native a regal bearing and

> > > > commanding presence which gains respect. However, the

personal

> > > life

> > > > of the native is painful due to failed expectations and

> shattered

> > > > dreams. I can vouchsafe for this with my experience with

> > thousands

> > > > of highly successful persons who seem to be successful,

blessed

> > > with

> > > > respectful appearance, status, etc. but endure silent misery

> that

> > > > cannot be understood or emphathized by others. Of course,

the

> > > house

> > > > rulership of Sun can modify this to some extent. But the

fact

> > > > remains that the success and status of the native will be

more

> > > > helpful for those around him/ her rather than to the native

> > > himself/

> > > > herself.

> > > >

> > > > Akin to the " Kaarako Bhaava naashaya " there is another dictum

> > also

> > > > from " Bhaavartha Ratnaakara " itself.....It deals with " when a

> > bhava

> > > > gets strengthened and gives maximum results pertaining to its

> > > > significations to a native " ....

> > > >

> > > > It appears in Chapter 12, stanza 1:

> > > >

> > > > " All bhaavaas whose lords are in conjunction with the

> respective

> > > > kaarakaas become strong " .

> > > >

> > > > Thus lagna becomes strong and significations of the lagna are

> > > > experienced in full by the native positively if the lagna

lord

> is

> > > in

> > > > conjunction with Sun.

> > > >

> > > > 2nd house significations can be experienced fruitfully by the

> > > native

> > > > if 2nd lord is in conjunction with Jupiter.

> > > >

> > > > I hope this post clarifies things.

> > > >

> > > > Blessed be.

> > > > Pandit R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

April 6, 2007

dear RRji

hundreds of techniques aka systems exist in divining the future

prognostication from astrology to zoomancy. yes, it is true that

astrologers are jumping from one system to another finding B better

than A only to realise C is much better than B and later discover

that D may be even better. instead as you rightly put, one must turn

one chart to another, validate the established principles learnt and

then start convincing himself that yes these rules do work on a large

database and hence he must start forecasting based on those rules.

as you rightly observed the modern humans are not at all attuned with

mother nature by living in artificial cool weather (AC) office, AC

car and AC house. little surprising that when the tsunami that

swallowed lakhs of people no human was aware of it beforehand. no

astrologer too predicted this and no godmen (god reincarnate!) of

india who have crores of devotees could predict or preclude except to

praise the leelas of nature on hindsight. when the first

prognostication astrology did not predict the tsunami, the last

(alphabetically) one zoomancy worked mircaulously. it is mother

nature's gift to these birds and animals that they can foresee which

humans cant. all birds and animals are fully aware of the eclipses

and follow the nature's laws sincerely.

understanding, aligning and attuning with mother nature can help a

human being forecast better, better than animals.

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

www.rudraksharemedy.com

vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Dear Arjun ji,

>

> I hear you!

> My own understanding is very similar, that Jyotishis of yore were

> more directly attuned to the Jyotish reality. Unlike many if not

most

> of us jyotishis of the world, often by circumstances but not

choice.

> Those of us who have bravely managed to embrace the spiritual

reality

> and spiritual life are to be admired and not to be envied, is how I

> look at it.

>

> Since Ancient Jyotishis perhaps had a more direct connection with

> Mother Nature, in a sense they had strong inner instincts and when

> they viewed a chart (perhaps often in their mind's eyes, being

> spiritual giants), their awareness which naturally included

> observation, logic and KNOWING made them look at indicators and

then

> they did not have to do all the weighting and inner debating that

> some of us do, while still others do externally on jyotish

discussion

> forums. Some of it gets noisy and contradictory and becomes counter-

> productive -- particularly for the beginner whose belief and

> allegience runs from pillar to post (one jyotishi teacher to

another)

> and when he or she should be running from chart to chart, instead!

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology , " panditarjun2004 "

> <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> >

> > dear RRji

> >

> > unfortunately general results are given for general placement of

> > planets by the sages. a man with a strong sun in lagna having

> > rulership or even a king is a positive trait blessed by planet

> sun.

> > however, others may rue that a king is committed in his duty to

> > protect the natives in his kingdom and hence he is a 24 hour

> servant

> > (like our ministers) who is deprived of ordinary comforts a

layman

> > enjoys. so even a king is not spared in getting attributed as

> > getting negative results.

> >

> > the sages (trikalajnanis) were simple in their preachings. just

> > close your eyes and you are able to see the past, present and

> > future. of course there were incidents when even sages could not

> see

> > the PRESENT e.g. indra duped saged gautam to sleep with his wife.

> >

> > unfortunately modern astrologers made it a maze of so many

> ambivalent

> > contradictory rules and theories which even abhimanyu find

> difficult

> > to come out easily. one reason why astrology is not a curriculum

> in

> > the government studies and not accepted as a subject even by the

> > indian government is because of these maze of contradictions and

> > diverse systems whereas astronomy is a subject beause the science

> and

> > world community has accepted it as an established truth.

> >

> > since vedic astrology is squarely based on hindu mythology, it is

a

> > matter of belief and faith. if harry potter is the bestseller in

> the

> > entire world and if the entire world start liking these

> mythological

> > beliefs, yes all those who believe in mythology will believe in

> > astrology too. by writing for and against theories and accepting

> > criticism and sharing information on agreeing and disagreeing on

> > various astro principles, we are all spreading the LIGHT OF

> ASTROLOGY

> > which is JYOTISH.

> >

> > with best wishes and blessings

> > pandit arjun

> > www.rudraksharemedy.com

> >

> > vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan "

> > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Arjunji,

> > >

> > > I am in agreement with you regarding there being some logical

(as

> > > opposed to faith-based) basis in the astrology we practice. I

say

> > > this not with arrogance but the admittance that if I cannot see

> > some

> > > logic in tenets that I use, and this could be my failing or

> > > shortcoming, but I would not feel comfortable in using such

> tenets

> > to

> > > give readings to those who approach me. Readings which may have

> > > serious impacts on their lives or decision-making.

> > >

> > > I am a bit surprised that there was any confusion in the minds

> here

> > > in confusing between karakas and rulers, which made Mr.

> > > Dakshinamoorthy to issue a cautionary note. When I wrote 'which

> > > karaka' as being the first thing a researcher in KBN theory

> > > (Postulate is probably a more appropriate label!) should

examine,

> > > this is what I meant. There are more than one type of karakas

> > defined

> > > in traditional jyotish.

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > vedic astrology , " panditarjun2004 "

> > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear dakshinamoorthiji

> > > >

> > > > thanks for confirming that it is the natural bhavakarakas and

> not

> > > > bhavadhipatis that do " nasha " to that bhava when placed in it.

> > > >

> > > > few medieval (not ancient) classics and recently published

> books

> > > > mention many many yogas and theories which do not find place

in

> > the

> > > > ancient classics. this KBN is a " theory " as aptly put by you.

> > > >

> > > > all the ancient as well as medieval classics describe the

> results

> > > of

> > > > the bhavas and natural bhavakarakas and the results of the

> > > > bhavakaraka placed in the natural karaka bhava. all of them

> are

> > > > positive. hence this KBN theory is in complete contradiction

> > with

> > > > what the same classics mention.

> > > >

> > > > to mention so many overriding rules and to gaze through a

maze

> of

> > > so

> > > > many other factors to know the result of a planet placed in a

> > bhava

> > > > is not what the sages have ever imagined. they mentioned in

> > simple

> > > > sanskrit verses what a planet (including the natural

> > bhavakarakas)

> > > > gives when it is placed in a bhava (including the natural

> > > > karakabhavas). all these are positive.

> > > >

> > > > unfortunately i dont find any logic in this KBN theory

> according

> > to

> > > > which sun in lagna, moon in chaturtha or jupiter if panchama

> > > > causing " nasha " to the respective houses.

> > > >

> > > > recently one member went to the extent of saying that

jupiter,

> > the

> > > > naturalkaraka of 5th bhava if placed in 5th house does not

get

> > > > children to the native. many members reverted saying they

have

> > > > hundreds of customers database who have children even after

> > having

> > > > jupiter in 5th house. well, one may explore and find various

> > other

> > > > reasons e.g. conjunctions, aspects etc. and find out

exception

> > > rules

> > > > even when 99 of the 100 charts does not support this KBN

theory.

> > > >

> > > > here i support RRji when he said that it is best if we all

> > > > astrologers search out databases and find whether this KBN

> theory

> > > > works. i did my homework well and the KBN theory does not

work.

> > > >

> > > > there is a sanskrit saying

> > > >

> > > > yuktiyuktam vako grahyam baladapi sukadapi

> > > > yuktiheenam vako tyajyam vrudhadapi sukadapi

> > > >

> > > > what is illogical to me may be logical to others and they are

> at

> > > > liberty to stick to what they believe is logical.

> > > >

> > > > my above observations are purely academic in nature and i

enjoy

> > > > fraternal love with all members alike, hence kindly treat

this

> > only

> > > > as an agreement or disagreemnt on a view.

> > > >

> > > > with best wishes and blessings

> > > > pandit arjun

> > > > www.rudraksharemedy.com

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology , " dakshinastrologer "

> > > > <dakshinastrologer@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Members:

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been following the thread on " Kaarako Bhaava

Naasaya "

> > with

> > > > > interest. On the one hand, some members feel it is one of

> > > > > the " invented " or " recently developed " spurious dictum. Of

> > > course,

> > > > > there are others who swear by that! This is one of the

most

> > > > > misunderstood and wrongly applied techniques in predictive

> > > > > astrology. So, I thought I will clarify it as far as I have

> > > > > understood it from my reading of the classics and will also

> > > > > give " classical evidence " for the theory (this is not a

> > recently

> > > > > invented theory; this is one of the many dictums that were

> more

> > > > > commonly known and not codified in the earlier compediums

of

> > > > > astrology like BPHS. BPHS does not mention many yogas/

> doshas/

> > > > > dictums which I presume may be due to the fact that in

those

> > days

> > > > > only the basics were taught to everyone and advanced

> techniques

> > > > were

> > > > > always preserved by word of mouth. In certain cases, those

> > > dictums

> > > > > were too well-known in that culture and there was no need

for

> > the

> > > > > illustrious sage to codify it in his illustrious work;

there

> > was

> > > no

> > > > > need for it as the knowledge was wide-spread).

> > > > >

> > > > > Now regarding " Kaarako Bhava Naasaya " ....Chapter 2, Stanza

9

> of

> > > > > Bhavaartha Ratnaakara (reputed to have been composed by

> > > > > Ramanujacharya Himself) says

> > > > >

> > > > > " sarveshu Bhaavasthaaneshu tatad Bhaavaadhikaarkah

> > > > > vidyate tasya bhaavasya phalam swalpam udheeritham "

> > > > >

> > > > > It means that if the different kaarakas are present in

their

> > > > > respective bhaavaas, such bhaavaas lose their vitality and

> give

> > > > rise

> > > > > to very little of their indications.

> > > > >

> > > > > This applies more to the natural kaarakaas and not

> > > > > the " bhaavaadipathis " , i.e., we should not confuse the

house

> > > owner

> > > > > with the house kaarakaa!

> > > > >

> > > > > Tradition has it that this rule has its exception in

Saturn -

> > the

> > > > > 8th house kaarakaa and Jupiter - the Dhana Kaarakaa. All

the

> > > other

> > > > > bhaavaas have been found to get affected by this syndrome.

> > > > >

> > > > > In practical situations, you may feel that this dictum does

> not

> > > > work

> > > > > when we do not analyze the situation completely. For

> instance,

> > > let

> > > > > us take Moon in the 4th house.....By this dictum the 4th

> Bhava

> > > > > results should be ordinary. Moon is the natural karaka for

> > > > Mother.

> > > > > It does not mean that the mother of the native will get

> > afflicted

> > > > or

> > > > > the relationship will not be smooth. The Bhavartha

Ratnakara

> > > > > clearly says " the bhavas will give very little of their

> > > > > indications " . Thus it can manifest in various forms as

below:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) The mother might die early (only if other factors in

the

> > > > > horoscope also indicate such an eventuality).

> > > > > 2) The delivery might have been very complicated.

> > > > > 3) The marital felicity of the mother might have been

> reduced

> > > > after

> > > > > the native's birth(no native will be able to say whether

this

> > is

> > > > > true or not because these are subtle things and subtleties

of

> > > > > marital life of parents are not always well known to

children

> > and

> > > > > their perceptions may not always be correct).

> > > > > 4) The native might be too attached to mother, yet may

have

> to

> > > > live

> > > > > away from one's mother/ motherland for long periods of time.

> > > > > 5) The native's prospects show marked improvement after

some

> > > > > painful event in mother's life. It is almost like sacrifice

> on

> > > the

> > > > > part of the mother augmenting the yoga of the native.

> > > > > 6) In some cases, the mother is working day and night to

> > support

> > > > > the native; but as a consequence the mother may not be able

> to

> > > > offer

> > > > > the tender touch and quality time required for the infant

> (this

> > > > > happens with single mothers who go to work to support their

> > > family

> > > > > or in cases where the family is undergoing a tough time and

> the

> > > > > mother gets to spend only very little time with the child

due

> > to

> > > > > other preoccupations though the affection is there).

> > > > >

> > > > > Many persons take just one context of these possibilities

and

> > > argue

> > > > > that this dictum has not worked in their lives. If we

> analyze

> > it

> > > > > pragmatically, we will be able to find that there

> > is " something "

> > > > > lacking with respect to the bhava whose karaka occupies it.

> > > > >

> > > > > As mentioned earlier in this post, Jupiter as dhanakaaraka

> and

> > > > > Saturn as ayush kaarakaa actually promote their respective

> > > > bhaavaas.

> > > > > There is another added rider with Jupiter in the 2nd

> > > house......If

> > > > > other dhana yogas do not support this combination, the

> > > acquisition

> > > > > of wealth shown by Jupiter is usually not a contributor for

> the

> > > > > native's own happiness but rather may be useful only for

> > others!

> > > > > Jupiter is a self-sacrificing planet which spoils the house

> in

> > > > which

> > > > > it is located but promotes the houses which it aspects.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let us see about Sun - the kaaraka of the ascendant.....

> > > > >

> > > > > Sun in the ascendant will give the native a regal bearing

and

> > > > > commanding presence which gains respect. However, the

> personal

> > > > life

> > > > > of the native is painful due to failed expectations and

> > shattered

> > > > > dreams. I can vouchsafe for this with my experience with

> > > thousands

> > > > > of highly successful persons who seem to be successful,

> blessed

> > > > with

> > > > > respectful appearance, status, etc. but endure silent

misery

> > that

> > > > > cannot be understood or emphathized by others. Of course,

> the

> > > > house

> > > > > rulership of Sun can modify this to some extent. But the

> fact

> > > > > remains that the success and status of the native will be

> more

> > > > > helpful for those around him/ her rather than to the native

> > > > himself/

> > > > > herself.

> > > > >

> > > > > Akin to the " Kaarako Bhaava naashaya " there is another

dictum

> > > also

> > > > > from " Bhaavartha Ratnaakara " itself.....It deals with " when

a

> > > bhava

> > > > > gets strengthened and gives maximum results pertaining to

its

> > > > > significations to a native " ....

> > > > >

> > > > > It appears in Chapter 12, stanza 1:

> > > > >

> > > > > " All bhaavaas whose lords are in conjunction with the

> > respective

> > > > > kaarakaas become strong " .

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus lagna becomes strong and significations of the lagna

are

> > > > > experienced in full by the native positively if the lagna

> lord

> > is

> > > > in

> > > > > conjunction with Sun.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2nd house significations can be experienced fruitfully by

the

> > > > native

> > > > > if 2nd lord is in conjunction with Jupiter.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope this post clarifies things.

> > > > >

> > > > > Blessed be.

> > > > > Pandit R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

April 6, 2007

Respected Sir.

I have been in astrology from last 2 years and doing with my heart and soul

...... and always be keen in helping my near and dear ones and my predictions for

them always comes out be with good accuracy ..... can u please help me to

analyze my horoscope ... i have just few doubts plz clarify i wil be greatful to

you actually it will clear my concept for astrology.

i m Btech(IT) and into teaching from last 3 years and now in china frm last 1

year in university teaching computer major students ..... actually i am willing

to make my career in MBA(Marketing ) ....... for that i m preparing for CAT ...

i m little confused ...

Will MBA jobs fit for me accoridng to my Chart.?

When should i appear for CAT ?

Status of Wealth ?

24-4-1980

5:20 am

Delhi

Accuracy of horoscope is bieng checked by me according to events in my life .

I am aries ascendant .. in 2008 Rahu and Jupiter in transit will aspect my 4th

house of study and may be a kind of destroy of my 10th house.

i wil pass by rahu followed by jup antar.

please guide me i will be helpful to u.

Regards.

Rahul

dakshinastrologer <dakshinastrologer wrote: