Vic et al re: Outer Planets

[Guest guest]

Dear Juliana,

 

I'm sure you must be aware that the trans-Saturnine planets have no

relevance whatsoever in the Vedic (vimsottari) dasa system. I'm sure also

that you're aware of this group's intention to discuss and promote Vedic

astrology according to the dictums of Maharishi Parashara...this is

clearly laid out on the group webpage.

 

PS: Although I'm not actively contributing to group discussions (at the

moment) I do still keep an eye on the group and will continue to assist

with moderation whenever I can.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" jai.ma " <jai.ma

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:55 AM

Vic et al re: Outer Planets

 

 

Hi Vic et al...

 

It is my experience as a long-time practicing Neo-Vedic astrologer

that the outer planets should not be ruled out. I use them when they

closely influence important points like the chart lord, the inner

planets and/or the angles of the chart, but I do not consider them to

be rulers of the rashis. I find the tr. Uranus Opposition around age

40 to be one of the most significant key life events, and oh, I do pay

attention to Uranus transits after I went through my own Uranus

awakening at that age!

 

In Western astrology, the outer planets are considered to be higher

octaves of the lower ones: Uranus for Mercury; Neptune for Venus; and

Pluto for Mars. They actually do reflect human attributes and

especially those of a collective nature. However, they are of a higher

dimension and thus reflect their own unique astral vibrations.

 

The late great Vedic astrologer Narendra Desai spoke of the very

ancient _Vasishta Nadi_, which he actually examined in a Madras

museum. Desai said that Sage Vasishta stated very clearly in this nadi

that the outer planets [uranus and Neptune] would be discovered and

that their astrological use would be understood in Kali Yuga. Desai

always considered Uranus to be the main karaka of astrology and

astrologers.

 

I wanted to share with you a brilliantly crafted footnote about the

outer planets from an article by renowned Vedic astrologer Sat Siri

Khalsa:

[bTW, I am not sure her predictions in this article were accurate but

then maybe she did not have the correct birth time yet, and my point

is not about the election anyway]...OK here it is:

 

" Although Vedic astrology's traditions emerge long long before the

outer planets were formally known, the perspectives of these later

interlopers have and do contribute additional prescience. Like gems

heaved out from the further out, more distant in time, but still

rippling revolutions of the still roiling cosmic sea of milk around

Mount Mandara, these newly known outer planets reveal themselves as

late gifts in latter times.

 

They are not strangers, but carry messages, and can be sensed to

represent some of the gods who, once strong in the Vedic hymns, faded

somewhat, like Prajapati, and Varuna, while in the West they are named

for the mythic Ouranos, Neptune and Pluto. These outer planets are the

spawn of Rahu. Although they rule no rashis, their transits are indeed

indicative of many cyclical shifts in the collective and in the

individual life.

 

Ouranos is the sky father, sire of Kronos (Saturn) and grandsire of

Jupiter. Ouranos also fathered the Cyclops and the Titans, and in turn

was castrated and killed by the Titans when he attempted to bind down

these, his very own sons', ferocious power. Like Ouranos, although far

less aggressive, Prajapati, sung of in the Rg Veda, is a creator

father god with many offspring, eventually including the entire human

race. He is known in some epics as a guardian of the sex organ. He

represents the sustaining reward of sacrifice, the endless

continuation of life as long as the price is paid, while his Western

counterpart Ouranos focuses on the payment that sometimes can be made

only through rebellion, and freedom attained sometimes through bloody

struggle and even incestuous civil war.

 

Varuna, lord of fate and oceans, master and knower of the karmas

engendered by the secret machinations of the heart, is the Eastern

counterpart of Neptune; and Yama, the one half of Saturn's soul who

bore the curse of his stepmother that he must limp and brood and

smolder, like Pluto was made god of the world beyond death. "

 

Thanks for the discussion!

Om shanti...love and light...

Juliana

[Guest guest]

Yes, Mrs. W, thank you for the reminder of your intention of taking a

strict doctrinal position on the outer planets. I recall your stating

many years ago that the ancient rishis including Sage Parasara saw the

outer planets as upa grahas, which is how I see them. Though I have

also stated that the upa grahas do not have lordships in any way, when

I interpret any of the Parasari dasa systems, I always take into

account the influence of a variety of upa grahas (as well as other

grahas) on the dasa lords.

 

May Jupiter's Light Shine On Us All,

Juliana

[Guest guest]

Dear Juliana,

 

///I recall your stating many years ago that the ancient rishis including

Sage Parasara saw the outer planets as upa grahas, which is how I see

them.///

 

I don't recall having said that at all? The UpaGrahas are, like the

Nodes, non-physical points in the cosmos. These are referred to in

Parashara as well as other classical texts. See:

http://jyotishvidya.com/ch3.htm

 

*61-64. NON-LUMINOUS UPAGRAHAS:

Add 4 signs 13 degrees and 20 minutes of arc to the sun's longitude at a

given moment to get the exact position of the all-inauspicious Dhooma.

Reduce Dhooma from 12 signs to arrive at Vyatipata. Vyatipata is also

inauspicious. Add six signs to Vyatipata to know the position of

Parivesha. He is extremely inauspicious. Deduct Parivesha from 12 signs

to arrive at the position of Chapa (Indra Dhanus) who is also

inauspicious. Add 16 degress 40 minutes to Chapa which will give Ketu

(Upaketu) who is a malefic. By adding a sign to Upaketu, you get the

original longitude of the Sun. These are planets devoid of splendor which

are malefics by nature and cause affliction.*

 

The trans-Saturnine planets cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be

considered as UpaGrahas...sorry!

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

 

-

" jai.ma " <jai.ma

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, October 22, 2008 1:40 PM

Re: Vic et al re: Outer Planets

 

 

Yes, Mrs. W, thank you for the reminder of your intention of taking a

strict doctrinal position on the outer planets. I recall your stating

many years ago that the ancient rishis including Sage Parasara saw the

outer planets as upa grahas, which is how I see them. Though I have

also stated that the upa grahas do not have lordships in any way, when

I interpret any of the Parasari dasa systems, I always take into

account the influence of a variety of upa grahas (as well as other

grahas) on the dasa lords.

 

May Jupiter's Light Shine On Us All,

Juliana

[Guest guest]

Dear All:Juliana left the group before I had a chance to answer his post. Here is my answer. I will also forward to his personal email:

Planets Beyond Saturn

And their Utility in Modern Astrology

 

Astrology, the study of the planets moving through the

visible sky, is a science that has been with humanity for as long as humans

have looked up at the sky. It’s roots as a systematic science are historically

as ancient as culture itself.

 

In the not too distant past of Western culture, astrology

splintered in two divisions. One was “astronomy” and the other continued to go

by the name of “astrology.” This happened at a time that human beings developed

new tools to observe the sky with greater accuracy. They soon discovered that

there were other planets and celestial bodies in the solar system that were not

visible in the sky a human being can see simply by looking up with the naked

eye. Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, etc.

 

The Astrologers did not want to be left out from these

discoveries. And there is a very important reason why: Astrology in Western

culture calculates planetary positions from a solar and seasonal viewpoint.

Over centuries these calculations became increasingly inaccurate because the

seasonal zodiac diverged from the actual galactic constellations as the wobble

in the rotation of the earth proceeded in its path. By the time Astronomy had

developed telescopes, the inaccuracy in the zodiac of the Western Astrologers

was quite severe, nearly 2/3rds of an entire “sign” or constellation! Thus

astrological accuracy was extremely poor and the astronomers were eager to try

anything new to help.

 

This is why Western astrologers developed a heavy reliance

on a sophisticated method of planetary aspects (the relations of the planets to

one another remains accurate, even when the relations of those planets to the

constellations of the zodiac does not). And this is also why western astrologer

began to include newfound planets and celestial bodies in their calculations.

 

In the East, Astrology and Astronomy never diverged into two

separate branches (until, to some extent, the advent of Globalized Westernism),

and the Eastern Zodiac was always a “sidereal” one – which was faithful and

accurate to the actual galactic constellations. Therefore Eastern astrology

retained it’s accuracy simply on the basis of it’s traditional fundamental

principles. As expected, the use of newly discovered planets in predictional

Astrology was not adopted there.

 

Or, at least, not until Globalized Westernism made its

impact felt even on the Eastern Astrologers – which has happened in the very,

very recent past.

 

Trans-Saturnian planets and objects are not needed at all in any Eastern Astrological system. But what is worse is that they are

actually a hindrance and confusion to true astrology, Eastern or Western. Here is why:

 

Most people conceive of Astrology as a science or

pseudo-science whose thesis is that the planets and stars have the capacity to

influence human life. However this is not the case! Nothing outside your own self and your own

actions and decisions has the ability to influence your future in any way shape

or form – and this is the very

fundamental thesis of the science of “karma” - of which astrology is a divining

rod.

 

In the East, planets are called Graha, “They who sieze and hold.” The poorly educated assume

that the planets sieze or hold human beings. However this is exactly opposite

to the science of karma, upon which divinational astrology rests. The planets,

however, do sieze and hold onto something very important: the reactions to your

actions.

 

Why the planets? Not because

they are in the sky! Rather, because they are in the human body and mind

itself. And this is the final and

most essential reason why planets outside Saturn are simply inconsequential to

the purpose of divinational astrology. The planets have power to influence a

human being only because they

witness every action that you perform, and they then hold on to your allotted

reactions and dispense them to you when the time is right. They can witness

your actions without fail not because they are in the sky, but because they are

within you. The reason why they are “within you” is because they create the

seven energy centers which in turn generate your mind and body.

 

In the East these seven energy centers are called the

“Chakras” or spinning “wheels” of energy in your body. You can find them fairly

easily by looking for the places the hair on your body and head grows in a

swirl.

 

Let’s examine which planets create which charkas and why:

 

Saturn has the power to constrict and hold and is the planet

of brute labor. He creates the root chakra which controls your evacuation and

generates the brute force and raw energy to power the rest of the charkas. No

other planet could create this chakra. To the right of this chakra is the

meta-biological realm of the constellation Capricorn, and to the left is

Aquarius; the two signs that traditional astrology puts under the ownership of

Saturn.

 

The next planet in from Saturn is Jupiter, who has the power

to expand, bless, multiply and please. Jupiter creates the next chakra up from

Saturn’s – the sexual chakra, which controls your ability to procreate,

multiple, experience fundamental pleasure, and bless society with population.

Clearly no other planet could create this chakra as well as Jupiter. To the

right is the sign before Saturn’s Capricorn, which is Sagittarius. And to the

left is the sign after Saturn’s Aquarius: Pisces. Again, both signs

traditionally put under the ownership of Jupiter.

 

The next planet in from Jupiter is Mars, who has the power

of energy and acidity. Mars creates the next chakra up from Jupiter’s – the

digestional chakra by which we obtain energy from digesting foods with acid.

Again, no other planet could create this chakra as well as Mars. To the right

of this Chakra is the sign before Jupiter’s Sagittarius, which is Scorpio. And

to the left is the sign after Jupiter’s Pisces: Aries. Two signs traditionally

owned by Mars.

 

Coming closer in from Mars, we pass the Earth (the focal

point of astrology) and then find Venus, who has the power of peace, harmony

and love. Venus creates the next higher chakra from Mars’ – the heart chakra

from which we find the mystical center of our love, desires to harmonize and

instincts towards peace. No planet could create this chakra better than Venus.

To her right is the meta-biological sign of Libra, which comes before Mars’

Scorpio. To her left is the sign that comes after Mars’ Aries: Taurus. These

are, not at all coincidentally, the two signs that Venus has been given

ownership of for centuries and centuries of Astrological theory.

 

Moving further inwards from Venus we find Mercury, who has

the power to interact and exchange via intelligent communication. Mercury alone

is best suited to create the next higher chakra – the throat chakra, from which

we generate our speech. To his right is the sign before Venus’ Libra, which is

Virgo. And to his left is the sign after Venus’ Taurs: Gemini. Again, Mercury

has always been given astrological ownership of these two signs.

 

At this point we have run through all the planets. We now

turn our attention to the two luminaries, the Sun and Moon – the original

owners of the Earth’s sky. The two luminaries create the next higher chakra –

which is the “third eye” or “mind” chakra because they hold the powers of

identity and emotion. The Sun sits on the right, in his sign Leo (which comes

before Mercury’s Virgo). The Moon sits on the left in her sign Cancer (which

comes after Mercury’s Gemini).

 

Now we would appear to have run out of astrological bodies,

except for the transcendental astrological entity who is at the root of all

astrology though seldom directly mentioned: The galactic center itself – from

which the planets obtain their semi-sentience as witnesses to our actions, as

well as the authority to hold on to and dispense the results of those actions.

The galactic sun, or galactic center, creates the topmost human energy center,

the crown-chakra – which generates out capacity for spiritual understanding and

enlightenment.

 

Now, where would you put a new planet??? And why would you bother? Unless your

astrological system is already in disarray, as was Western Astrology at the

time of the invention of telescopes why would you even want to tinker with the perfect logic and symmetry of the

anciently valid astrological fundamentals I have just described?

 

As such, we who value true astrology must reject the use of

outer planets in any divinational system. The meanings ascribed to these bodies

by modern astrologers are poetic at best. Whatever “accuracies” they have

“found” to exist by using these bodies in interpretation is, unfortunately

simply a result of their overly sloppy application of the astrological science

in “tight conjunction” with coincidence.

 

On Oct 21, 2008, at 5:55 PM, jai.ma wrote:The late great Vedic astrologer Narendra Desai spoke of the veryancient _Vasishta Nadi_, which he actually examined in a Madrasmuseum. Desai said that Sage Vasishta stated very clearly in this nadithat the outer planets [uranus and Neptune] would be discovered andthat their astrological use would be understood in Kali Yuga. Desaialways considered Uranus to be the main karaka of astrology andastrologers.This is interesting and requires further authentication and examination.I wanted to share with you a brilliantly crafted footnote about theouter planets from an article by renowned Vedic astrologer Sat SiriKhalsa:It IS brilliantly crafted and poetic, and extremely fascinating and wonderful - but inherently false and baseless.- Vic DiCara~ ~ ~site: www.vedicastrologer.netfacebook: www.facebook.com/pages/Authentic-Astrology-Vedic/30214498650~ ~ ~

[Guest guest]

There was one final paragraph missing from my previous post,

unfortunately:

 

Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to witness

our actions,

and therefore do not " HOLD " on to any of our karma. Thus they are

astrologically impotent.

 

 

On Oct 21, 2008, at 5:55 PM, jai.ma wrote:

 

> Hi Vic et al...

>

> It is my experience as a long-time practicing Neo-Vedic astrologer

> that the outer planets should not be ruled out. I use them when they

> closely influence important points like the chart lord, the inner

> planets and/or the angles of the chart, but I do not consider them to

> be rulers of the rashis. I find the tr. Uranus Opposition around age

> 40 to be one of the most significant key life events, and oh, I do pay

> attention to Uranus transits after I went through my own Uranus

> awakening at that age!

>

> In Western astrology, the outer planets are considered to be higher

> octaves of the lower ones: Uranus for Mercury; Neptune for Venus; and

> Pluto for Mars. They actually do reflect human attributes and

> especially those of a collective nature. However, they are of a higher

> dimension and thus reflect their own unique astral vibrations.

>

> The late great Vedic astrologer Narendra Desai spoke of the very

> ancient _Vasishta Nadi_, which he actually examined in a Madras

> museum. Desai said that Sage Vasishta stated very clearly in this nadi

> that the outer planets [uranus and Neptune] would be discovered and

> that their astrological use would be understood in Kali Yuga. Desai

> always considered Uranus to be the main karaka of astrology and

> astrologers.

>

> I wanted to share with you a brilliantly crafted footnote about the

> outer planets from an article by renowned Vedic astrologer Sat Siri

> Khalsa: <http://www.councilVedic Astrology.org/FA_President_09.htm>

> [bTW, I am not sure her predictions in this article were accurate but

> then maybe she did not have the correct birth time yet, and my point

> is not about the election anyway]...OK here it is:

>

> " Although Vedic astrology's traditions emerge long long before the

> outer planets were formally known, the perspectives of these later

> interlopers have and do contribute additional prescience. Like gems

> heaved out from the further out, more distant in time, but still

> rippling revolutions of the still roiling cosmic sea of milk around

> Mount Mandara, these newly known outer planets reveal themselves as

> late gifts in latter times.

>

> They are not strangers, but carry messages, and can be sensed to

> represent some of the gods who, once strong in the Vedic hymns, faded

> somewhat, like Prajapati, and Varuna, while in the West they are named

> for the mythic Ouranos, Neptune and Pluto. These outer planets are the

> spawn of Rahu. Although they rule no rashis, their transits are indeed

> indicative of many cyclical shifts in the collective and in the

> individual life.

>

> Ouranos is the sky father, sire of Kronos (Saturn) and grandsire of

> Jupiter. Ouranos also fathered the Cyclops and the Titans, and in turn

> was castrated and killed by the Titans when he attempted to bind down

> these, his very own sons', ferocious power. Like Ouranos, although far

> less aggressive, Prajapati, sung of in the Rg Veda, is a creator

> father god with many offspring, eventually including the entire human

> race. He is known in some epics as a guardian of the sex organ. He

> represents the sustaining reward of sacrifice, the endless

> continuation of life as long as the price is paid, while his Western

> counterpart Ouranos focuses on the payment that sometimes can be made

> only through rebellion, and freedom attained sometimes through bloody

> struggle and even incestuous civil war.

>

> Varuna, lord of fate and oceans, master and knower of the karmas

> engendered by the secret machinations of the heart, is the Eastern

> counterpart of Neptune; and Yama, the one half of Saturn's soul who

> bore the curse of his stepmother that he must limp and brood and

> smolder, like Pluto was made god of the world beyond death. "

>

> Thanks for the discussion!

> Om shanti...love and light...

> Juliana

> www.astralharmony.com

---

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vic,

 

Just very quickly for now as it's really very late here...

 

You Wrote:

///Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to witness

our actions, and therefore do not " HOLD " on to any of our karma. Thus

they are astrologically impotent.///

 

That is very well said!

 

BTW Juliana is a female :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Vic D " <vicdicara

<jyotish-vidya >

Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:05 AM

Re: Vic et al re: Outer Planets

 

 

There was one final paragraph missing from my previous post,

unfortunately:

 

Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to witness

our actions,

and therefore do not " HOLD " on to any of our karma. Thus they are

astrologically impotent.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Mrs. Wendy!

 

It was a " pronoun malfunction " (as Janet Jackson would say) in regards

to Juliana.

 

- Vic

 

On Oct 22, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Wendy Vasicek wrote:

 

> Dear Vic,

>

> Just very quickly for now as it's really very late here...

>

> You Wrote:

> ///Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to

> witness

> our actions, and therefore do not " HOLD " on to any of our karma. Thus

> they are astrologically impotent.///

>

> That is very well said!

>

> BTW Juliana is a female :-)

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

>

>

> -

> " Vic D " <vicdicara

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:05 AM

> Re: Vic et al re: Outer Planets

>

>

> There was one final paragraph missing from my previous post,

> unfortunately:

>

> Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to witness

> our actions,

> and therefore do not " HOLD " on to any of our karma. Thus they are

> astrologically impotent.

>

>

>

>

> ---

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All:Also I don't use upa-grahas, simply because I consider my hands full already with the regular planets and too novice to venture into that arena. On day I will, but that is besides the point. Really, it is important to understand what an upa-graha is and what it is not. An upa-graha is NOT a planet. Nor even are Rahu and Ketu really planets. They are "UPA" or "SIDE" effects from the planets!Rahu and Ketu are special among the upagrahas and are promted to grahas due to their connection with Vishnu and Amrita.- Vic DiCara~ ~ ~site: www.vedicastrologer.netfacebook: www.facebook.com/pages/Authentic-Astrology-Vedic/30214498650~ ~ ~ On Oct 22, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Wendy Vasicek wrote:Dear Vic,Just very quickly for now as it's really very late here...You Wrote:///Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to witnessour actions, and therefore do not "HOLD" on to any of our karma. Thus they are astrologically impotent.///That is very well said!BTW Juliana is a female :-)Best Wishes,Mrs. Wendyhttp://JyotishVidya.com___- "Vic D" <vicdicara<jyotish-vidya >Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:05 AMRe: Vic et al re: Outer PlanetsThere was one final paragraph missing from my previous post,unfortunately:Planets such as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no ability to witnessour actions,and therefore do not "HOLD" on to any of our karma. Thus they areastrologically impotent.---