Controversial shlok from Balmiki ramayan

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Bhaskar ji,

 

Thanks for the kind words - let the blessing of Bhagavan

Dakshinamoorti be with great souls like you.

 

I am astrologer for long, doing it for livelihood, and the gods

blessings was with me always and I am thankful to him. " Guruavyoorappan

kadiakshichal aiswaraym undavum " , if the blessings of god Krisha in

Guruvayur temple is with us, wealth and happiness will follow, my

parents used to say. I am thankful to them, because i know it now - and

advice the same to my kids.

 

It was my daughter who created an email id for me, and it is computer

era, and i am also enjoying all these knowledge shared...thanks to god.

The daily life goes by, people come, and their is no difficulty for

daily bread. " Guruavyoorappan kadiakshichal aiswaraym undavum " .

 

Let the blessings of all gods be with us all.

 

regards vijaya raghavan guruvayur

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Lalitji,

>

> Though I do not know Shri Vijaya Raghavanji,

> but as far as I know through his mails, he is

> a very sensible, knowledgable and experienced

> person and astrologer. (I have encountered his

> mails on other Forums too).

>

> Sometimes It is too early to pass comments on

> someone.

>

> People have not given me permission, otherwise

> I would have revealed many names who have

> supportedme in my small mission against the

> wrong interpretation of the birth of Shri Rama,

> then probably your views would have been different.

> (These of course have been Off the Forums)

>

> I request you not to pass any judgements too

> early. Also no one can say that My Guru is good and

> Your Guru is bad, My knowledge is complete and yours

> incomplete. I know better, and You know less.

> All know good enough for themselves to survive.

>

> Anoither matter I wish to bring on fore,

> is that just like all Marwadis are not Kanjoos,

> all Muslims are not Terrorists, all Calcuttans'are

> not Kangalis, all Delhiites are not dilwallahs,

> same way all the Swamis, Gurus, and Yogis

> who allow their photographs to be taken, are

> not all bogus. Those who had seen Lord Krishna when

> he was present on Earth and paimnted his photos,

> those who meditate on Lord Krishna and also know

> the art opf putting the image in brush, if these good

> people had not done so, or the Lord would

> not have allowed them to do so,we would never have

> the images of all the Lords we worship today.

> And we too are but the small extensions of the

> Lord.

>

> And Kundalini Jagran is not a process, partial

> or in beginning stage etc.

> It either has become Jagrut, or Not, and it takes just

> few seconds for it to become Jagrut.

> But the process of achieving this stage may

> take many years or Life times, is a sepereate

> matter, but for

> the Kundalini to rise it takes just few seconds.

>

> Many have not questioned Sreendah, many

> those who trot as spiritual masters, as Lovers

> of Indian astrology, as Lovers of Hinduism, all

> these have failed to speak out. How many of

> these are we going to put on the cross ? And

> I know Raghavan ji has done his job very well.

> One more Prominent member towards whom

> a servile attitude is shown here, has not been

> questioned by you. While this gentleman

> has done his job much better than others,

> is being picked. So just forget this.

>

> All of us have knowledge gained by our individual

> experiences in their respective domains.

> The collective knowledge of all, is the knowledge

> of God.

>

> We should refrain from causing hurt to others

> by picking on them unnecessarily without strong

> provocations. Because this way sadness is

> caused, factions and groupism is

> created, which is not good for community progress.

> The problem with us Hindus is that we fight too

> much between ourselves only, forget the

> world, and the outsiders take advantage of this

> infighting. So please avoid this.

>

> Hope above is taken in right spirit of the purpose.

> (Anyone wishes to fight with me, I am always

> ready with my arms, but better we should not fight

> amongst ourselves and instead,prove to be strength

> of each other).

>

> best regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

>

, " litsol " litsol@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lion Ji,

> >

> > I have well undrestood it's only fire and nothing else, one can

> spend

> > night in the yagya shala to have divine blessings and the

> dictionary

> > also supports it, PVR has already stated it scholarly.

> >

> > We should try to understand a topic and if we dont understand we

> > should ask, but sometimes, instead of asking we begin doing

> > declarations or stating, we begin making up our ideas, it's what i

> > didn't like, that srinadh tried to become a great knowledgable with

> > bundles of ignorance and crated such a dirty issue, he thought, he

> is

> > the only person to know the web links to valmiki ramayana.

> >

> > You are the one who didnt question him, so, I have obviously doubts

> > on you.

> >

> > ~Lalit.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " lion_draco1983 "

> > <lion_draco1983@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lalit,

> > > That is exactly what I said! Patarin when used as Nakaranta

> > pullinaga

> > > can only mean Arrow, Bird or Horse. Did you really understood the

> > para

> > > you copy-pasted?

> > > It is good that you have given the reference - but that too

> > means the

> > > same. Thanks to your learned soul who copy pasted the reference.

> > > I am a simple astrologer having an jyotishalayam in guruvayur,

> > and in

> > > the dictionaries I have i couldn't find that meaning and that was

> > why

> > > that mail. But it seems that your learned soul misunderstood me,

> and

> > > didn't understood the dictionary quoted as well.

> > > Sorry, if you didn't liked my referring to Rao ji's mail. I

> > thought

> > > Rao ji will answer.

> > > regards vijaya raghavan guruvayur

> > >

> > >

> > > , " litsol " <litsol@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I dont know who has taken away my last mail :

> > > >

> > > > so, i m giving once again the way to understand/find real

> > meanings,

> > > > however, u wish to willingly take the meaning suitable to ur

> mind.

> > > >

> > > > A) Visit : http://hu.wiktionary.org/wiki/F%C3%BCggel%C3%

> > A9k:monier/p

> > > > <http://hu.wiktionary.org/wiki/F%C3%BCggel%C3%A9k:monier/p>

> > > >

> > > > 1. use ctrl+F

> > > >

> > > > 2. put patatrin in the text box and hit enter key. you will get

> > > > following , to close this confusion of you and also a mission to

> > > spread

> > > > confusion among members.

> > > >

> > > > >>patatrin

> > > >

> > > > patatrín mfn. winged, feathered, flying (also applied to

Agni,

> the

> > > > vehicle of the A´svins & c.) RV. AV. VS. Up. & c

> > > > m. a bird AV. & c. & c

> > > > a horse, (esp.) the horse in the A´sva-medha sacrifice R. i,

> 13,

> > 36

> > > > an arrow MBh. iii, 16430

> > > > a partic. fire TS

> > > > n. du. day and night RV. i, 158. 4

> > > >

> > > > B) visit : http://students.washington.edu/prem/mw/p.html

> > > > <http://students.washington.edu/prem/mw/p.html>

> > > >

> > > > or take admission in some good sanskrit vidyalaya.

> > > >

> > > > right!

> > > >

> > > > ~Lalit.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " lion_draco1983 "

> > > > lion_draco1983@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rao,

> > > > >

> > > > > PataH has the following meanings - fall, go, and fly. Eg:

> > Patati -

> > > > > falls, Paranga - bird

> > > > >

> > > > > Patatri means 'bird' when used as Pullinga.

> > > > >

> > > > > The word Patatri can mean Arrow, Bird & Horse when use as

> > NakarantaH

> > > > > Pullinga, which is the case with the usage in Balmiki Ramayan.

> > > > >

> > > > > kausalyaa susthitena cha chetasaa dharma kaamaayaa patatriNaa

> > > saartham

> > > > > ekaam rajaniim avasat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kauslya with composed dharma desiring mind, for one, night

> > resided

> > > > with

> > > > > the 'Patatri'.

> > > > >

> > > > > I checked the dictionary and the meaning 'fire' was not

> present

> > in

> > > > > Sanskrit or vedic dictionaries - from where you got that

> > meaning?

> > > Can

> > > > > you enlighten us with the the reference?

> > > > >

> > > > > Even though Patatri could mean bird, the Sanskrit word

> > for 'Guruda'

> > > > > (symbolizing soul) 'Patatri Raja' - so pradeep ji should look

> > into

> > > > this

> > > > > as well.

> > > > >

> > > > > The usage is Nakaranta Pullinga - and could mean only Arrow,

> > Bird or

> > > > > Horse.

> > > > >

> > > > > Waiting for your scholarly words ....

> > > > >

> > > > > regards vijaya raghavan guruvayur

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " lion_draco1983 "

> > > > > lion_draco1983@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Narasimha,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Narasimha Rao " pvr@

> > wrote:

> > > > > > > I am a good scholar in Sanskrita

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is good to hear you yourself is saying that you are a

> > scholar

> > > in

> > > > > > sankrita.

> > > > > > I have a doubt - i heard that 'Patatri' refers to 'Arrow'

> > > > esepecially

> > > > > > the the sharp arrows with wings. It is a usual word that is

> > used

> > > to

> > > > > > refer to arrows in sanksrita - as your good self may know

> > arrows

> > > can

> > > > > fly

> > > > > > and are winged ones, since they are decorated with

> feathers.

> > Can't

> > > > it

> > > > > be

> > > > > > that the word 'Patatri' is used in the same meaning in

> Balmiki

> > > > > ramayana

> > > > > > as well.

> > > > > > I never found the word 'Patatri' used to mean 'fire' any

> > where -

> > > > could

> > > > > > you please provide your reference - it could be of much

> help

> > to

> > > > > ignorant

> > > > > > seekers like us.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vijaya raghavan guruvayur

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Shri Narasimha

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for the interpretations.

> > > > > > > I have some doubts here.Kindly clarify them.Pls treat

> these

> > as

> > > > > doubts

> > > > > > > and it can very well be wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If Patatrina mentioned in shloka 34,is ritual fire,then

> what

> > > does

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > ''Patatri'' in ''PatatriNah Tasya Vapaam'' mean in shloka

> > > 36.What

> > > > is

> > > > > > > cooked here.Pls elaborate.whatis being raised - from

> where.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am submitting some random thoughts with prayers to Lord.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1)In Brihadaranyakopanishad it is mentioned that Year is

> the

> > > body

> > > > of

> > > > > > > the horse.My doubt - If it is so- then what is the Horse?

> I

> > am

> > > not

> > > > > > > giving my answers,in order to not to curtail your

> meditative

> > > > > thoughts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2)Patatri - as per my understanding is a Parava or the

> one

> > which

> > > > can

> > > > > > > fly.The Raja among Patatri is Garuda.Can you think of any

> > > eternal

> > > > > > > Parava within you which can fly?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you have an answer for 1,then what is that is being

> > killed.Is

> > > > it

> > > > > > > that which has 3 gunas,3 states etc,by which one can

> > transcend

> > > > > > > something.Why is Kausalya using 3 Knives.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why do they wait for 1 year.Isn't it( year) the body of

> the

> > > horse

> > > > -

> > > > > > > then what is Horse.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If that is killed ,which Parava or Patatri is left within

> > which

> > > > can

> > > > > > > shine with a stable splendour.Upon the burning and

> smelling

> > of

> > > > what,

> > > > > > > Dasharatha can be releived of Sins.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3)So with what is kuasalya spending the night with .Which

> > > > > > Patatri/Parava.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also the parts of the body is offered to agni(agni is

> > mentioned

> > > > > > > seperately here - not as Patatri ) and 16 priests are

> > present.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Through Aswamedha which Parava(bird) is transcending and

> > > reaching

> > > > > > > noble heights.The Process of creation at both levels are

> > visible

> > > > > > > here.Kindly share your thoughts.Is Rig Veda helpful by any

> > > > means.My

> > > > > > > knowledge is negligible and these are my humble thoughts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Other members please don't attack me.I am raising my

> doubts

> > to

> > > > shri

> > > > > > > Narasimha.Thank you for your translation.Stable splendour

> > was

> > > very

> > > > > > > helpful(The one with Susthithi and chetas).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > , " Narasimha Rao " pvr@

> > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Sri Singh and others,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thank you for mentioning the exact shloka.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If I am allowed, I will give my interpretation. I am a

> > good

> > > > > scholar

> > > > > > > > in Sanskrita, though I must mention that scholarship is

> > > > > insufficient

> > > > > > > > to understand the true meanings of the writings of

> > *rishis*.

> > > > Each

> > > > > > > > word of a rishi is pregnant with several meanings. To

> > > understand

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > true meaning of an entire verse, your brain wavelength

> > has to

> > > > > match

> > > > > > > > the rishi's. It is possible only with divine blessings.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When it comes to Vedas, Upanishats, Puranas and other

> > > scriptures

> > > > > (or

> > > > > > > > even astrology texts like BPHS and Jaimini Sutram), a

> lot

> > of

> > > > > people

> > > > > > > > advance a lot of interpretations, but most of them are

> > > corrupted

> > > > > due

> > > > > > > > to the quality of the current time. It is Her wish that

> > this

> > > > > > > > corruption of knowledge should come in a big way in

> this

> > age.

> > > It

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > also Her wish that some people should come now and then,

> > > correct

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > few things and go. Only She has the full 'screen play'

> of

> > this

> > > > > > > > drama. Not knowing that this is a drama and that She is

> > the

> > > > > > > > director, we get caught in the show and take things very

> > > > > personally

> > > > > > > > sometimes. We should continue to play our roles in the

> > drama,

> > > > but

> > > > > > > > with an understanding that this is a drama.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Anyway, philosophy aside, here is my interpretation. If

> > you

> > > > > disagree

> > > > > > > > or think I am wrong, please ignore this fool.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The word " patatrin " means a fire also. While some

> > commentators

> > > > may

> > > > > > > > have interpreted it as a bird or horse, I will go with

> > fire as

> > > > we

> > > > > > > > are talking about a multi-day fire ritual here where the

> > > ritual

> > > > > fire

> > > > > > > > is kept alive. Here is a word-by-word interpretation:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > tadA = then

> > > > > > > > kausalyA = Queen Kausalya

> > > > > > > > dharmakAmyayA = with a desire to follow her duty

> > > > > > > > avasat = spent

> > > > > > > > ekAM = one

> > > > > > > > rajanIM = night

> > > > > > > > sArdhaM = along with

> > > > > > > > patatriNA = the ritual fire

> > > > > > > > susthitena ca cetasA = that had a stable splendor

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This basically means: " Wishing to follow her duty, Queen

> > > > Kausalya

> > > > > > > > spent one night aside the ritual fire that was burning

> > with a

> > > > > stable

> > > > > > > > splendor. " She either slept by the fire or, more likely,

> > > > meditated

> > > > > > > > by the fire for the entire night. The priests were

> > probably

> > > > > > > > maintaining the fire during the night also.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you take patatrin to mean a horse or a

> > bird, " susthitena ca

> > > > > > > > cetasA " is awkward. How can you refer to a dead horse

> > as " with

> > > a

> > > > > > > > firm consciousness/splendor " ? That phrase has been

> > > > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > > below. In MY interpretation, it falls in place

> perfectly.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > BTW, meditating by the fire in the night is quite

> > something.

> > > If

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > > perform a proper homam during the day and meditate

> > sitting by

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > fire that continues to burn in the early part of the

> > night, it

> > > > is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > fantastic experience.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > > >

> > > -------------------------------

> > > > > > > > Homam manual and audio:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > > > > > Spirituality:

> > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

> > > http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > > > >

> > > -------------------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , " rpsingh2710 "

> > > > <rpsingh2710@>

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Sahshie Shekhar ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Here is the controversial shlok described in the

> > context of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > Ashvamedh Yagya: I have also provided the link to the

> > > Balmiki

> > > > > > > > Ramayan

> > > > > > > > > site where I got it from.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Bal Kand, Sarga [ chapter] 14 ; shloka 34

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > patatriNaa tadaa saardham susthitena ca cetasaa |

> > > > > > > > > avasat rajaniim ekaam kausalyaa dharma kaamyayaa || 1-

> > 14-34

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 34. kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; susthitena cha

> chetasaa=

> > with

> > > > > > > > > composed - impassively; dharma kaamaayaa= dharma,

> > desiring

> > > > > �

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > achieving results; patatriNaa saartham= with horse,

> for

> > > > results;

> > > > > > > > > [where patatri = also means a bird, one that swiftly

> > flew

> > > away

> > > > > > > > like a

> > > > > > > > > bird; the sacrificed ritual horse is equated with the

> > Divine

> > > > > Eagle

> > > > > > > > �

> > > > > > > > > garuDa - that conducts the oblations; ekaam rajaniim

> > avasat

> > > =

> > > > > one,

> > > > > > > > > night, she resided with that horse that flew away.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Queen Kausalya desiring the results of ritual

> > disconcertedly

> > > > > > > > resided

> > > > > > > > > one night with that horse that flew away like a bird.

> > > > [1-14-34]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Link to Balmiki Ramayan:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/ramayana.shtml

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > RP Singh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > , Shashie Shekhar

> > > > > > > > > <polite_astro@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ll HARE RAM ll

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Bhai,

> > > > > > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > > > > > > Through out the day i read Valmiki Ramayana and some

> > > > students

> > > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > > come to my residence to learn Astrology,tried to

> search

> > the

> > > > said

> > > > > > > > > shloka in Valmiki Ramayan but no one could succeed to

> > find

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > same.Had Maharishi Valmiki written some other Ramayna

> > too?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > God bless

> > > > > > > > > > Shashie Shekhar

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Pradeep ji,

I was just presenting the literary meaning - as you rightly said,

others may persive differently. Lord Mahakala bless us all.

regards vijaya raghavan guruvayur

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Vijayaraghavan ji

>

> Thank you for the detailed explanations.

> I agree that Patah has meaning as fall -because the word Patana is

> literally fall.Thus the one which can rise and fall like Pataka

> (Flag),bird ,fire etc fall into that category.

> The ritual horse is no ordinary horse.It has transformations and it

> takes many forms as per Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.

>

> Thus initially the symbol is horse as we see w.r to our context.The

> horse at another level is representing time and space and ayana of

> sun/soul.Aswamedha is done with that special purpose.The horse

> represents the king and internally the Kings soul.This horse is

> going to north -eastern direction which has a significance.Horse not

> returning back is pointing to the dedicated sojourn of one's

> consciousness.These are hidden in scriptures.

>

> Now the horse carrying man will transform and rise with removal of

> body consciousness.Agni can destroy everything but not the soul.Thus

> Garuda symbolizes Vayu and elevation of soul.

>

> Thus the one we saw as horse will transform as patatrin.Thus if you

> ask is horse patatrin aes -it was- now it has evolved.This is

> symbolized as the horse with wings.The Garuda around fire pit etc.

>

> Thus one can think as he likes,but the horse has to be percieved

> differently based on diff levels is my understanding.

>

> Others better learned will perceive differently.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep , " lion_draco1983 "

> lion_draco1983@ wrote:

> >

> > Shri Pradeep,

> > The root (Dhatu) is PataH meaning fall, fly or go. For example

> took at

> > the words -

> > Patati - falling

> > Patanga - bird or kite etc

> > Patatri means bird because it can fly - it is a meaning derived

> from

> > the root word PataH.

> > Garuda is a bird, but the king among birds. So it is 'Patatri

> Raja'.

> > Refer any Sanskrit dictionary you will see that - the

> meanings 'bird' is

> > given to 'Patatri' and Garuda is given to 'Patatri Raja'.

> > Why bird is a 'Patatri' can mean 'bird'? Because it can fly and

> fall.

> > Similarly an 'Arrow' can also fly and fall, and it is also

> decorated

> > with feathers. That is why Arrow is also 'Patatri', a usage we see

> > plenty in puranas.

> > Why horse is 'Patatri'? Because it can 'go' or poetically 'fly

> like a

> > bird' (indicating speed of the horse). That is why horse

> is 'Patatir'.

> > Poetically, the horse flies through the battle field like

> an 'arrow'

> > piercing the enemy rows. That is why horse is 'Patatri'.

> > Let us assume that the meaning 'soul' given by you is correct.

> The

> > sloka states that - Kausalya spend a night with 'Patatri'. Which

> one of

> > the following meanings fits-in?

> > * Kausalya spend a night with the garuda or soul.

> > * Kausalya spend a night with the arrow.

> > * Kausalya spend a night with the horse.

> > * Kausalay spend a night with the fire.

> > The problems with the meaning 'fire' - you have already

> mentioned by

> > refering to sloka 38. It should also be noted that the sloka is

> used as

> > 'Nakaranta pullinga'. The meaning (garuda or soul) you give deoes

> not

> > find mention in dictionaris for the word 'Patatri'. In the several

> other

> > slokas Balmiki ramayana uses the word 'Patatri' to mean 'Horse' it

> self

> > - for example in sloka 38, which Rao ji already agreed.

> > ==>

> > > As the creation or Putra is no ordinary,identifying with the

> higher

> > > picture is important and as a consequence during the

> > > Putrakameshti,Prajapti is involved.

> > <==

> > Putreshti Yaga happened later after the Aswamedha Yaga. The

> above

> > sloka is in the section of ramayana balakanda which refers to

> Aswamedha.

> > My knowledge is limited - the learned ones may correct me with

> > adequate reference. Let the blessings of lord siva and parvati be

> with

> > us all.

> > regards vijaya raghavan guruvayur

> >

> > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Vijayaraghavan

> > >

> > > As you have mentioned my name i am restating my views.I have

> already

> > > given my views.

> > >

> > > Shri Narasimha Rao has chosen the meaning vehicle,which is one

> among

> > > the possibilities.

> > >

> > > For me the root meaning in this context for patatra or patatrin

> is the

> > > one that can fly - The winged one.

> > > The ritual horse is equated with patatrin as it is having a

> Wing.Arrow

> > > is called patatrin because it is having wings - can fly fast.

> > >

> > > Thus i would choose the one with a wing-which can rise high in

> air.In

> > > that sense fire too can rise.

> > >

> > > For me Patatrin has a higher meaning and is the atma as

> scriptures do

> > > mention Jeevatma and Paramatma as two birds.

> > > Dasharatha is conducting Aswamedha inorder to conquer

> > > Kingdoms(spiritual) and smelling the smoke is cleansing his sins.

> > > After Killing the body consciousness,the soul(the one that can

> fly

> > > -patatrin) is identifying itself with the higher self.

> > >

> > > As the creation or Putra is no ordinary,identifying with the

> higher

> > > picture is important and as a consequence during the

> > > Putrakameshti,Prajapti is involved.

> > >

> > > As shri Narasimha Rao is well learned ,his views are respected.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > >

> > > , " lion_draco1983 "

> > > lion_draco1983@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rao,

> > > >

> > > > PataH has the following meanings - fall, go, and fly. Eg:

> Patati -

> > > > falls, Paranga - bird

> > > >

> > > > Patatri means 'bird' when used as Pullinga.

> > > >

> > > > The word Patatri can mean Arrow, Bird & Horse when use as

> > NakarantaH

> > > > Pullinga, which is the case with the usage in Balmiki Ramayan.

> > > >

> > > > kausalyaa susthitena cha chetasaa dharma kaamaayaa patatriNaa

> > saartham

> > > > ekaam rajaniim avasat.

> > > >

> > > > Kauslya with composed dharma desiring mind, for one, night

> resided

> > > with

> > > > the 'Patatri'.

> > > >

> > > > I checked the dictionary and the meaning 'fire' was not

> present

> > in

> > > > Sanskrit or vedic dictionaries - from where you got that

> meaning?

> > Can

> > > > you enlighten us with the the reference?

> > > >

> > > > Even though Patatri could mean bird, the Sanskrit word for

> > 'Guruda'

> > > > (symbolizing soul) 'Patatri Raja' - so pradeep ji should look

> into

> > this

> > > > as well.

> > > >

> > > > The usage is Nakaranta Pullinga - and could mean only

> Arrow, Bird

> > or

> > > > Horse.

> > > >

> > > > Waiting for your scholarly words ....

> > > >

> > > > regards vijaya raghavan guruvayur

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " lion_draco1983 "

> > > > <lion_draco1983@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Narasimha,

> > > > >

> > > > > > , " Narasimha Rao " pvr@

> wrote:

> > > > > > I am a good scholar in Sanskrita

> > > > >

> > > > > It is good to hear you yourself is saying that you are a

> scholar

> > in

> > > > > sankrita.

> > > > > I have a doubt - i heard that 'Patatri' refers to 'Arrow'

> > esepecially

> > > > > the the sharp arrows with wings. It is a usual word that is

> used

> > to

> > > > > refer to arrows in sanksrita - as your good self may know

> arrows

> > can

> > > > fly

> > > > > and are winged ones, since they are decorated with feathers.

> Can't

> > it

> > > > be

> > > > > that the word 'Patatri' is used in the same meaning in

> Balmiki

> > > > ramayana

> > > > > as well.

> > > > > I never found the word 'Patatri' used to mean 'fire' any

> where -

> > could

> > > > > you please provide your reference - it could be of much help

> to

> > > > ignorant

> > > > > seekers like us.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vijaya raghavan guruvayur

> > > > >

> > > > > , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Shri Narasimha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for the interpretations.

> > > > > > I have some doubts here.Kindly clarify them.Pls treat

> these as

> > > > doubts

> > > > > > and it can very well be wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If Patatrina mentioned in shloka 34,is ritual fire,then

> what

> > does

> > > > the

> > > > > > ''Patatri'' in ''PatatriNah Tasya Vapaam'' mean in shloka

> > 36.What is

> > > > > > cooked here.Pls elaborate.whatis being raised - from where.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am submitting some random thoughts with prayers to Lord.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1)In Brihadaranyakopanishad it is mentioned that Year is

> the

> > body of

> > > > > > the horse.My doubt - If it is so- then what is the Horse?I

> am

> > not

> > > > > > giving my answers,in order to not to curtail your

> meditative

> > > > thoughts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2)Patatri - as per my understanding is a Parava or the one

> which

> > can

> > > > > > fly.The Raja among Patatri is Garuda.Can you think of any

> > eternal

> > > > > > Parava within you which can fly?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you have an answer for 1,then what is that is being

> killed.Is

> > it

> > > > > > that which has 3 gunas,3 states etc,by which one can

> transcend

> > > > > > something.Why is Kausalya using 3 Knives.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why do they wait for 1 year.Isn't it( year) the body of the

> > horse -

> > > > > > then what is Horse.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If that is killed ,which Parava or Patatri is left within

> which

> > can

> > > > > > shine with a stable splendour.Upon the burning and

> smelling of

> > what,

> > > > > > Dasharatha can be releived of Sins.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3)So with what is kuasalya spending the night with .Which

> > > > > Patatri/Parava.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also the parts of the body is offered to agni(agni is

> mentioned

> > > > > > seperately here - not as Patatri ) and 16 priests are

> present.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Through Aswamedha which Parava(bird) is transcending and

> > reaching

> > > > > > noble heights.The Process of creation at both levels are

> visible

> > > > > > here.Kindly share your thoughts.Is Rig Veda helpful by any

> > means.My

> > > > > > knowledge is negligible and these are my humble thoughts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Other members please don't attack me.I am raising my

> doubts to

> > shri

> > > > > > Narasimha.Thank you for your translation.Stable splendour

> was

> > very

> > > > > > helpful(The one with Susthithi and chetas).

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regds

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > , " Narasimha Rao " pvr@

> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sri Singh and others,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for mentioning the exact shloka.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If I am allowed, I will give my interpretation. I am a

> good

> > > > scholar

> > > > > > > in Sanskrita, though I must mention that scholarship is

> > > > insufficient

> > > > > > > to understand the true meanings of the writings of

> *rishis*.

> > Each

> > > > > > > word of a rishi is pregnant with several meanings. To

> > understand

> > > > the

> > > > > > > true meaning of an entire verse, your brain wavelength

> has to

> > > > match

> > > > > > > the rishi's. It is possible only with divine blessings.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When it comes to Vedas, Upanishats, Puranas and other

> > scriptures

> > > > (or

> > > > > > > even astrology texts like BPHS and Jaimini Sutram), a

> lot of

> > > > people

> > > > > > > advance a lot of interpretations, but most of them are

> > corrupted

> > > > due

> > > > > > > to the quality of the current time. It is Her wish that

> this

> > > > > > > corruption of knowledge should come in a big way in this

> age.

> > It

> > > > is

> > > > > > > also Her wish that some people should come now and then,

> > correct a

> > > > > > > few things and go. Only She has the full 'screen play'

> of this

> > > > > > > drama. Not knowing that this is a drama and that She is

> the

> > > > > > > director, we get caught in the show and take things very

> > > > personally

> > > > > > > sometimes. We should continue to play our roles in the

> drama,

> > but

> > > > > > > with an understanding that this is a drama.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, philosophy aside, here is my interpretation. If

> you

> > > > disagree

> > > > > > > or think I am wrong, please ignore this fool.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The word " patatrin " means a fire also. While some

> commentators

> > may

> > > > > > > have interpreted it as a bird or horse, I will go with

> fire as

> > we

> > > > > > > are talking about a multi-day fire ritual here where the

> > ritual

> > > > fire

> > > > > > > is kept alive. Here is a word-by-word interpretation:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > tadA = then

> > > > > > > kausalyA = Queen Kausalya

> > > > > > > dharmakAmyayA = with a desire to follow her duty

> > > > > > > avasat = spent

> > > > > > > ekAM = one

> > > > > > > rajanIM = night

> > > > > > > sArdhaM = along with

> > > > > > > patatriNA = the ritual fire

> > > > > > > susthitena ca cetasA = that had a stable splendor

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This basically means: " Wishing to follow her duty, Queen

> > Kausalya

> > > > > > > spent one night aside the ritual fire that was burning

> with a

> > > > stable

> > > > > > > splendor. " She either slept by the fire or, more likely,

> > meditated

> > > > > > > by the fire for the entire night. The priests were

> probably

> > > > > > > maintaining the fire during the night also.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you take patatrin to mean a horse or a

> bird, " susthitena ca

> > > > > > > cetasA " is awkward. How can you refer to a dead horse

> as " with

> > a

> > > > > > > firm consciousness/splendor " ? That phrase has been

> > misinterpreted

> > > > > > > below. In MY interpretation, it falls in place perfectly.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BTW, meditating by the fire in the night is quite

> something.

> > If

> > > > you

> > > > > > > perform a proper homam during the day and meditate

> sitting by

> > the

> > > > > > > fire that continues to burn in the early part of the

> night, it

> > is

> > > > a

> > > > > > > fantastic experience.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > >

> > -------------------------------

> > > > > > > Homam manual and audio:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > > > > Spirituality:

> > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

> > http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > > >

> > -------------------------------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " rpsingh2710 "

> > <rpsingh2710@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Sahshie Shekhar ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here is the controversial shlok described in the

> context of

> > the

> > > > > > > > Ashvamedh Yagya: I have also provided the link to the

> > Balmiki

> > > > > > > Ramayan

> > > > > > > > site where I got it from.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Bal Kand, Sarga [ chapter] 14 ; shloka 34

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > patatriNaa tadaa saardham susthitena ca cetasaa |

> > > > > > > > avasat rajaniim ekaam kausalyaa dharma kaamyayaa || 1-

> 14-34

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 34. kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; susthitena cha

> chetasaa= with

> > > > > > > > composed - impassively; dharma kaamaayaa= dharma,

> desiring

> > > > �

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > achieving results; patatriNaa saartham= with horse, for

> > results;

> > > > > > > > [where patatri = also means a bird, one that swiftly

> flew

> > away

> > > > > > > like a

> > > > > > > > bird; the sacrificed ritual horse is equated with the

> Divine

> > > > Eagle

> > > > > > > �

> > > > > > > > garuDa - that conducts the oblations; ekaam rajaniim

> avasat

> > =

> > > > one,

> > > > > > > > night, she resided with that horse that flew away.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Queen Kausalya desiring the results of ritual

> disconcertedly

> > > > > > > resided

> > > > > > > > one night with that horse that flew away like a bird.

> > [1-14-34]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Link to Balmiki Ramayan:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > http://www.valmikiramayan.net/ramayana.shtml

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > RP Singh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , Shashie Shekhar

> > > > > > > > <polite_astro@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ll HARE RAM ll

> > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Bhai,

> > > > > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > > > > > Through out the day i read Valmiki Ramayana and some

> > students

> > > > > > > who

> > > > > > > > come to my residence to learn Astrology,tried to

> search the

> > said

> > > > > > > > shloka in Valmiki Ramayan but no one could succeed to

> find

> > the

> > > > > > > > same.Had Maharishi Valmiki written some other Ramayna

> too?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > God bless

> > > > > > > > > Shashie Shekhar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >