[VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedas

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

1)

It seems Avinash Sathaye's mail made Avtar Krishen Kaul jubilant. Unfortunately

Mr. Sathaye is not aware that the Vedic verses are cryptic and they can

have more than one meaning. Veda itself says that the Paroksha and Pratyaksha

meanings are there in the Vedas. Further having taken so much trouble to find

the authenticity of the meaning of the word  " Vrshabha " why did he not check the

claim that there are mention of other rashis too in the Veda. Or is he out to

prove that there are no Rashis in the Veda than to check the claim objectively?

Or does he want that I should give him the details of the other references too

so that he can do a thorough job.

 

2)

Since Avtar Krishen Kaul had forwarded the mail of Sathaye without comment it

appears that he also could not find the mention of Meena rashi. I hope there are

other scholars in the forum who may be interested in this and also have access

to Vedanga Jyotisha.

 

3)

Mahabharata mentions the word Rashi and that is irrefutable. Has Sathaye  cared

to know what is the meaning of the word " Rashi " there or does he think that to

be irrelevant too? Bhagavata Purana also mentions Rashi. Purana is considered to

be the Fifth Veda, if one believes in what Chandogya Upanishad says.

 

The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna and

this shows that of the Bhagavata purana was composed in the 31st century BCE.

There is no validity in Avtar Krishen Kaul's claim that the Rashis are imported

from Baylonia and the Greeks.  Another related matter is that Avtar Krishen Kaul

always delinks the Rashis from the Stars. Though now a days in the Tropical

western astrology  the Sunsigns are not related to the fixed stars, Avtar

Krishen Kaul does not  know that even Ptolemy linked them with the fixed Stars. 

 

Regards,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

 

 

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved

[VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedas

vedic_research_institute

Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:54 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WAVES-Vedic, Avinash Sathaye <sohum wrote:

 

After watching a long exchange between Sunil Bhattacharya (SB) and

Avatar Krishna Kaul(AKK),

I finally found something I can look into: an explicit reference to the

rAshis in RV.

 

The reference from SB was:

) Vrshabha Rashi in Rig Veda (8.93.1). There are more Rashis in Rig Veda.

 

2) Meena Rashi in Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha (Verse No. 5)

 

3) Brahma Rashi in the Mahabharata had Abhijit Nakshatra. At that time

the 28 Nakshatras were considered including Abhijt. Later on the

Abhijit is dropped and 27 Nakshatras were counted and the Rashi

containing Abhijit became the Makar Rashi.Any knowledgeable astrologer

should know the earlier location of the Abhijit in the ecliptic.

 

I checked the first reference and found the following:

The padapATha form in 8.93.1 gives (using ITRANS notation):

ut | gha | it | abhi | shruta.amabham | vRRiShabham | narya.aapasam |

astAram | eShi | sUryam || 1 ||

sAyaNa seems to say that sUkta refers to Indra and says: " indro.api

sUryAtmanA paThitaH " - Indra is counted among the 12 Suns.

 

His translation gives no hint that a rAshi is involved here, he consider

" bull " as a symbol of wealth.

Here is his paraphrase transformed in English with Sanskrit in parenthesis:

 

the best known form of wealth (shrutamagham sarvathA deyatvena

vikhyAtadhanam ata ), thus the Bull, (vRRiShabham ) - showering on the

people requesting (yAchamAnAnAm dhanasya varShitAram ), bes tower of

beneficial things (narya.aapasam)

etc.

I don't see any reasonable way to interpret the vRRiShabha as a rAshi.

If there is a different explanation, please enlighten us.

 

I tried to check the second reference. I could not find it.

I possess a handwritten transcript of the text from the Chaukhamba book

called yajuHshAstrIya jyotiSha and it contains 44 verses.

The one numbered 5 is

mAghashuklaprapanna sya pauShakRRiShNa samApinaH |

yugasya pa~nchavarShasya kAlaj~nAnaM prachakShate ||

 

I did not find the " Meena " rAshi yet.

Somebody please give the verse and a convincing translation, unless it

is clear.

I do not possess the whole book, but if there is a convincing reference

in it, I can get the relevant copy.

 

I did not bother with mahabharata, since there is no concrete reference.

The reference does not even claim that Makara rAshi is mentioned there,

but only stipulates that any " knowledgeable astrologer " should know the

earliest location of Abhijit.

Since the references are to decide the date of introduction of rAshis,

" the knowledge " of an astrologer should be waived as partisan evidence.

 

Now, I partly understand why AKK kept on insisting a reference with a

translation( :-))

 

P.S. I have one request for people who engage in long drawn out debates.

Often, the messages and counter messages are all kept in the body and

the author's response is hard to find. It is also hard to sort out the

new arguments from the old.Please, quote only the relevant portions,

indicating if you have omitted parts . The interested reader can always

go back and review the messages from the past(:-))

 

 

--

 

With Best Regards,

Avinash Sathaye

 

Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Khannaanup32,

 

Will you please tell the group your own credentials if you want the group

members to know your capability to interpret the Vedic verses. Please do not run

away.

 

S.K.Bhattacharjya

 

--- On Fri, 5/29/09, khannaanup32 <khannaanup32 wrote:

 

 

khannaanup32 <khannaanup32

Re: [VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedas

 

Friday, May 29, 2009, 9:40 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunil Bahttachrjya wrong claims have been put in his own ass by third party.

 

SB is nill in his all knowledge.

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy

a wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

> ?

> 1)

> It seems Avinash Sathaye's mail made Avtar Krishen Kaul jubilant.

Unfortunately Mr. Sathaye is not aware that the Vedic verses are cryptic

and?they can have?more than one meaning. Veda itself says that the Paroksha and

Pratyaksha meanings are there in the Vedas. Further having taken so much trouble

to find the authenticity of the meaning of the word? " Vrshabha " why did he not

check the claim that there are mention of other rashis too in the Veda. Or is he

out to prove that there are no Rashis in the Veda than to check?the

claim?objectively? Or does he want that?I should give him the details of the

other references too so that he can do a thorough job.

> ?

> 2)

> Since Avtar Krishen Kaul had forwarded the mail of Sathaye without comment it

appears that he also could not find the mention of Meena rashi. I hope there are

other scholars in the forum who may be interested in this and also have access

to Vedanga Jyotisha.

> ?

> 3)

> Mahabharata mentions the word Rashi and that is irrefutable. Has Sathaye?

cared to know what is the meaning of the word " Rashi " there or does he think

that to be irrelevant too? Bhagavata?Purana also mentions Rashi.?Purana is

considered to be the Fifth Veda, if one believes in what Chandogya Upanishad

says.

> ?

> The Bhagavata Purana was recited before Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna and

this shows that of the Bhagavata purana was composed in the 31st century BCE.

There is no validity in Avtar Krishen Kaul's claim that the Rashis are imported

from Baylonia and the Greeks.? Another related matter is that Avtar Krishen Kaul

always delinks the Rashis from the Stars. Though now a days in the Tropical

western astrology? the Sunsigns are not related to the fixed stars, Avtar

Krishen Kaul does not? know that even Ptolemy linked them with the fixed Stars.?

> ?

> Regards,

> ?

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Tue, 5/26/09, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..>

> [VRI] Fwd: Reference for Rashi's in Vedas

> vedic_research_ institute

> Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:54 AM

>

>

WAVES-Vedic, Avinash Sathaye <sohum@> wrote:

>

> After watching a long exchange between Sunil Bhattacharya (SB) and

> Avatar Krishna Kaul(AKK),

> I finally found something I can look into: an explicit reference to the

> rAshis in RV.

>

> The reference from SB was:

> ) Vrshabha Rashi in Rig Veda (8.93.1). There are more Rashis in Rig Veda.

>

> 2) Meena Rashi in Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha (Verse No. 5)

>

> 3) Brahma Rashi in the Mahabharata had Abhijit Nakshatra. At that time

> the 28 Nakshatras were considered including Abhijt. Later on the

> Abhijit is dropped and 27 Nakshatras were counted and the Rashi

> containing Abhijit became the Makar Rashi.Any knowledgeable astrologer

> should know the earlier location of the Abhijit in the ecliptic.

>

> I checked the first reference and found the following:

> The padapATha form in 8.93.1 gives (using ITRANS notation):

> ut | gha | it | abhi | shruta.amabham | vRRiShabham | narya.aapasam |

> astAram | eShi | sUryam || 1 ||

> sAyaNa seems to say that sUkta refers to Indra and says: " indro.api

> sUryAtmanA paThitaH " - Indra is counted among the 12 Suns.

>

> His translation gives no hint that a rAshi is involved here, he consider

> " bull " as a symbol of wealth.

> Here is his paraphrase transformed in English with Sanskrit in parenthesis:

>

> the best known form of wealth (shrutamagham sarvathA deyatvena

> vikhyAtadhanam ata ), thus the Bull, (vRRiShabham ) - showering on the

> people requesting (yAchamAnAnAm dhanasya varShitAram ), bes tower of

> beneficial things (narya.aapasam)

> etc.

> I don't see any reasonable way to interpret the vRRiShabha as a rAshi.

> If there is a different explanation, please enlighten us.

>

> I tried to check the second reference. I could not find it.

> I possess a handwritten transcript of the text from the Chaukhamba book

> called yajuHshAstrIya jyotiSha and it contains 44 verses.

> The one numbered 5 is

> mAghashuklaprapanna sya pauShakRRiShNa samApinaH |

> yugasya pa~nchavarShasya kAlaj~nAnaM prachakShate ||

>

> I did not find the " Meena " rAshi yet.

> Somebody please give the verse and a convincing translation, unless it

> is clear.

> I do not possess the whole book, but if there is a convincing reference

> in it, I can get the relevant copy.

>

> I did not bother with mahabharata, since there is no concrete reference.

> The reference does not even claim that Makara rAshi is mentioned there,

> but only stipulates that any " knowledgeable astrologer " should know the

> earliest location of Abhijit.

> Since the references are to decide the date of introduction of rAshis,

> " the knowledge " of an astrologer should be waived as partisan evidence.

>

> Now, I partly understand why AKK kept on insisting a reference with a

> translation( :-))

>

> P.S. I have one request for people who engage in long drawn out debates.

> Often, the messages and counter messages are all kept in the body and

> the author's response is hard to find. It is also hard to sort out the

> new arguments from the old.Please, quote only the relevant portions,

> indicating if you have omitted parts . The interested reader can always

> go back and review the messages from the past(:-))

>

>

> --

>

> With Best Regards,

> Avinash Sathaye

>

> Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

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>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

>

>