Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 At 02:48 PM 5/9/04 -0400, Patrice wrote: > Dear List, A better way to state what I wrote earlier would be to >say: Under KP, the nakshatra lord of the SUB of the Ascendant is said to >be the strongest significator of the ascendant. Patrice, what is your reference for this? I have some of the KP books, but haven't looked at them in a long time. Is this in one or more of the standard books? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Hello Dear Bettina and Therese, Sub lord is a further division beyond the lord of the nakshatra. They are just a sub division of the nakshatras, and as given by Parashara for delineating the Vimshottari Dasha System. Andrew Lynn has written at his website, "Krishnamurti, as well as many other clear thinking astrologers, realized that if the Bhukti lord was important in Vimshottari, then why not consider them for the positions of every natal planet? " I am going to paste Andrew Lynn's websit below. He has a fantastic way of sharing and introducing KP methods and I have gained a large part of my understanding of KP from him. His website is a great place to learn and understand KP enough so that you can really start using it to check into it yourselves on charts. I am a huge fan of Andrew! From there you can write down the rules of the significators of the houses and begin to look at a chart. As my books are in process of being put into new shelves my husband built (ahhhh...so heavenly) and are very difficult to get to at the moment, and also the KP books, for those of you who have used them, are as you know written in a manner that it difficult to look things up specifically. So I'm not able to give you my exact reference for what I wrote regarding the strongest significator of the 1H Therese, sorry... I don't exactly remember even where I got this from, and it could have been from Andrew directly as I love to study with him at any opportunity I've been able to in the past. He use to have a list and wrote much on KP there, but unfortunately he no longer has that list. What I wrote of the first house is another technique used on the ascendant in KP and I've seen Andrew use it quite a lot. Again as an example, in my case, my birth time was 00:39 on my birth certificate. When my younger brother died a couple years ago, Andrew, in his kindness, phoned me and worked with me on my chart and said he thought it should be 00:38 due to all showing in my chart at my brother's passing. (This technique can be a good clarifying tool for helping to rectify a birthtime (or unknown birthtime). When my time is 00:39, the sublord of ascendant is Sun. Sun is in Anuradha, Saturn's star. Saturn is in Virgo conjoined with Mars, Venus and Neptune. And of course I do have a lot of Virgo traits with these placements, but clearly it is not the significator of my ascendant, with these influences and other planets conjoined also taken into account as direct influences, but rather Ketu in Leo (which is at the 00:38 time). As I have a Leo Lagna anyway, I would have Leo traits, but in deciding and seeing this for the 1H significator, this is clear to be the Ketu in Leo. I had always felt my birth time to be pretty right on and felt hesitant to change it, and also hadn't come to this technique before. I in fact felt it to be right due in part with the 00:39 time, in KP chart, it shows ruling planet, nakshatra lord, sub lord, and sub sub lord all to be Sun, which I could definitely relate to. But interestingly, with this time change, 00:38 is actually more correct, showing with this technique, as it again brings back Leo and Sun, whereas the other time would not. I remember at the time Andrew saying, "Okay, are you a Saturn in Virgo with Mars and Venus, or a Ketu in Leo?" In other charts, like Michael Jackson's where we are looking for his birthtime, you can use it perhaps more clearly, as in mine, when beginning with this technique it might seem unclear with my Lagna being Leo anyway... but I was using my chart as an example to show HOW to do it. For me personally I was then very, very fortunate to have the opportunity to meet Yogi Karve. If any of you know of him, he is a great, great spiritual man who is known for having the ability to look at you or speak to you and give you your exact time of birth. (I can go into more on this if there is interest on here.) But when meeting him, he immediately gave me 00:38 as my birth time, so Andrew was right on via the KP techniques that he uses, along with pre-natal eclipses and progressions. Andrew's web site: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/skinbags/index.htm I have also been in touch with him recently and hoping he would come to America to teach. He is offering to teach, or do charts, at the moment at a very inexpensive price trying to get money for a ticket here. He lives in Australia but will pay for the phone call and gives something like a 3 hour call. I can send more info if there is interest. Also Therese, with the KP books, I have found going to the 5th Reader to be the most helpful. It's written somewhat better than the earlier 1st through 4th Reader books and gives direct information more clearly. All my kindest regards, Patrice _______________ Sub lord is lord of the nakshatra? .... Bettina Patrice, what is your reference for this? I have some of the KP books, buthaven't looked at them in a long time. Is this in one or more of thestandard books? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Hello Patrice, You wrote so much in your last post that it will have to wait until I'm finished with my current article to reply. However, now I remember one question I had about KP. Since I have used the navamsa extensively, I gave up using the KP subs because of potential conflict between the two. (Though I know that KP was mainly used for horary.) Do you use the navamsa, and if so, how do you separate it from the subs? I use the navamsa to help determine the exact ascendant. I have bookmarked Andrew's site, but will have to wait for time to check it out. Therese At 10:29 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: > Hello Dear Bettina and Therese, Sub lord is a further division >beyond the lord of the nakshatra. They are just a sub division of the >nakshatras, and as given by Parashara for delineating the Vimshottari Dasha > System. Andrew Lynn has written at his website, " Krishnamurti, as well as >many other clear thinking astrologers, realized that if the Bhukti lord was > important in Vimshottari, then why not consider them for the positions of >every natal planet? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 At 10:29 AM 5/10/2004 -0400, Patrice wrote: >Sub lord is a further division beyond the lord of the nakshatra. Hi Patrice, Wonderful site, thanks for sharing! See you in the stars, Arthyr, http://TheSunsetChart.com " Making Ancient Astrology Work for You " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Hello Dear Therese, I'm not quite clear what you mean by a potential conflict between the two. I also use the Navamsa, am striving to learn to use it well. I'm still very much learning as I've written before. Yes, Navamsa is a very important chart to be used along with the Rasi chart. I know KP is used for horary or prashna, but in my experience that is not all it is mainly used for. Most of my experience with it is in the use of janma, or natal astrology. I am just learning more now using it in prashna charts, in my baby steps in that, but first I think it's important to have a clearer understanding of it before doing prashna, as that is more difficult to do correctly without better understanding and a more fluid use of KP. I definitely use Navamsa and I'm unsure about what you mean here - and due to my own lack of experience I'm sure, rather than what you're referring to. Separately from what you're specifically asking, as with everything in Jyotish, there is much controversy in use, and most have told me that we don't use the nakshatra lords and subs in the varga charts(divisional charts). I actually do find it helpful to still take notice of them and personally do use them. This has to be with a chart that is very clearly the correct birth time. I think that perhaps because I picked up KP techniques, verses KP itself, when I began doing charts early on, this way of viewing a chart is very helpful for me. As I continue to grow stronger in the basics of a chart and strive to read a chart purely in that way as well to gain an understanding of how another is seeing and reading a chart, and for validation of what I'm seeing, I still am seeing how helpful the use of Nakshatra lords and subs are. I have heard that the use of Navamsa is very good in determining the exact ascendant. Early on because someone also learning KP techniques shared a lot of twins charts, the use of the Navamsa wasn't enough to determine differences between the two and I loved the effects of what all we were learning and could see when we included the sub and sub sub lords. We would take something as simple as the color preferences in the twins and it could be determined who was who only via these techniques FOR ME, as I'm not capable with my newer experience with Jyotish in seeing this clearly via using the basic charts. Also seeing things why one twin had broken a couple of bones, the other had never broken anything, why one's pets had passed and the other's had not... I couldn't find this just in using the Navamsa chart. I'm hesitant to put myself out here this way too much as I'm no expert and still very much in the process of learning. You will really enjoy Andrew's web site. He is very clear in his use of KP and has a brilliant talent in it. Peace, Patrice ______________ Hello Patrice, You wrote so much in your last post that it will have to wait until I'mfinished with my current article to reply. However, now I remember onequestion I had about KP. Since I have used the navamsa extensively, I gaveup using the KP subs because of potential conflict between the two. (ThoughI know that KP was mainly used for horary.) Do you use the navamsa, and ifso, how do you separate it from the subs? I use the navamsa to helpdetermine the exact ascendant. I have bookmarked Andrew's site, but will have to wait for time to check itout. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Patrice ... Thanks so much for the URL for Andrew's web site! I just clicked on it and WOW! Didn't really have time to look at it now, but I put it on my favorites list. I'm going to go back and read it thoroughly. .... Bettina Patrice Curry [patricecurry]Monday, May 10, 2004 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Re: KP Significator Hello Dear Bettina and Therese, Sub lord is a further division beyond the lord of the nakshatra. They are just a sub division of the nakshatras, and as given by Parashara for delineating the Vimshottari Dasha System. Andrew Lynn has written at his website, "Krishnamurti, as well as many other clear thinking astrologers, realized that if the Bhukti lord was important in Vimshottari, then why not consider them for the positions of every natal planet? " I am going to paste Andrew Lynn's websit below. He has a fantastic way of sharing and introducing KP methods and I have gained a large part of my understanding of KP from him. His website is a great place to learn and understand KP enough so that you can really start using it to check into it yourselves on charts. I am a huge fan of Andrew! From there you can write down the rules of the significators of the houses and begin to look at a chart. As my books are in process of being put into new shelves my husband built (ahhhh...so heavenly) and are very difficult to get to at the moment, and also the KP books, for those of you who have used them, are as you know written in a manner that it difficult to look things up specifically. So I'm not able to give you my exact reference for what I wrote regarding the strongest significator of the 1H Therese, sorry... I don't exactly remember even where I got this from, and it could have been from Andrew directly as I love to study with him at any opportunity I've been able to in the past. He use to have a list and wrote much on KP there, but unfortunately he no longer has that list. What I wrote of the first house is another technique used on the ascendant in KP and I've seen Andrew use it quite a lot. Again as an example, in my case, my birth time was 00:39 on my birth certificate. When my younger brother died a couple years ago, Andrew, in his kindness, phoned me and worked with me on my chart and said he thought it should be 00:38 due to all showing in my chart at my brother's passing. (This technique can be a good clarifying tool for helping to rectify a birthtime (or unknown birthtime). When my time is 00:39, the sublord of ascendant is Sun. Sun is in Anuradha, Saturn's star. Saturn is in Virgo conjoined with Mars, Venus and Neptune. And of course I do have a lot of Virgo traits with these placements, but clearly it is not the significator of my ascendant, with these influences and other planets conjoined also taken into account as direct influences, but rather Ketu in Leo (which is at the 00:38 time). As I have a Leo Lagna anyway, I would have Leo traits, but in deciding and seeing this for the 1H significator, this is clear to be the Ketu in Leo. I had always felt my birth time to be pretty right on and felt hesitant to change it, and also hadn't come to this technique before. I in fact felt it to be right due in part with the 00:39 time, in KP chart, it shows ruling planet, nakshatra lord, sub lord, and sub sub lord all to be Sun, which I could definitely relate to. But interestingly, with this time change, 00:38 is actually more correct, showing with this technique, as it again brings back Leo and Sun, whereas the other time would not. I remember at the time Andrew saying, "Okay, are you a Saturn in Virgo with Mars and Venus, or a Ketu in Leo?" In other charts, like Michael Jackson's where we are looking for his birthtime, you can use it perhaps more clearly, as in mine, when beginning with this technique it might seem unclear with my Lagna being Leo anyway... but I was using my chart as an example to show HOW to do it. For me personally I was then very, very fortunate to have the opportunity to meet Yogi Karve. If any of you know of him, he is a great, great spiritual man who is known for having the ability to look at you or speak to you and give you your exact time of birth. (I can go into more on this if there is interest on here.) But when meeting him, he immediately gave me 00:38 as my birth time, so Andrew was right on via the KP techniques that he uses, along with pre-natal eclipses and progressions. Andrew's web site: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/skinbags/index.htm I have also been in touch with him recently and hoping he would come to America to teach. He is offering to teach, or do charts, at the moment at a very inexpensive price trying to get money for a ticket here. He lives in Australia but will pay for the phone call and gives something like a 3 hour call. I can send more info if there is interest. Also Therese, with the KP books, I have found going to the 5th Reader to be the most helpful. It's written somewhat better than the earlier 1st through 4th Reader books and gives direct information more clearly. All my kindest regards, Patrice _______________ Sub lord is lord of the nakshatra? .... Bettina Patrice, what is your reference for this? I have some of the KP books, buthaven't looked at them in a long time. Is this in one or more of thestandard books? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Do sub lords have anything to do with Drekkanas? .... Bettina Patrice Curry [patricecurry]Monday, May 10, 2004 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Re: KP Significator Hello Dear Bettina and Therese, Sub lord is a further division beyond the lord of the nakshatra. They are just a sub division of the nakshatras, and as given by Parashara for delineating the Vimshottari Dasha System. Andrew Lynn has written at his website, "Krishnamurti, as well as many other clear thinking astrologers, realized that if the Bhukti lord was important in Vimshottari, then why not consider them for the positions of every natal planet? " I am going to paste Andrew Lynn's websit below. He has a fantastic way of sharing and introducing KP methods and I have gained a large part of my understanding of KP from him. His website is a great place to learn and understand KP enough so that you can really start using it to check into it yourselves on charts. I am a huge fan of Andrew! From there you can write down the rules of the significators of the houses and begin to look at a chart. As my books are in process of being put into new shelves my husband built (ahhhh...so heavenly) and are very difficult to get to at the moment, and also the KP books, for those of you who have used them, are as you know written in a manner that it difficult to look things up specifically. So I'm not able to give you my exact reference for what I wrote regarding the strongest significator of the 1H Therese, sorry... I don't exactly remember even where I got this from, and it could have been from Andrew directly as I love to study with him at any opportunity I've been able to in the past. He use to have a list and wrote much on KP there, but unfortunately he no longer has that list. What I wrote of the first house is another technique used on the ascendant in KP and I've seen Andrew use it quite a lot. Again as an example, in my case, my birth time was 00:39 on my birth certificate. When my younger brother died a couple years ago, Andrew, in his kindness, phoned me and worked with me on my chart and said he thought it should be 00:38 due to all showing in my chart at my brother's passing. (This technique can be a good clarifying tool for helping to rectify a birthtime (or unknown birthtime). When my time is 00:39, the sublord of ascendant is Sun. Sun is in Anuradha, Saturn's star. Saturn is in Virgo conjoined with Mars, Venus and Neptune. And of course I do have a lot of Virgo traits with these placements, but clearly it is not the significator of my ascendant, with these influences and other planets conjoined also taken into account as direct influences, but rather Ketu in Leo (which is at the 00:38 time). As I have a Leo Lagna anyway, I would have Leo traits, but in deciding and seeing this for the 1H significator, this is clear to be the Ketu in Leo. I had always felt my birth time to be pretty right on and felt hesitant to change it, and also hadn't come to this technique before. I in fact felt it to be right due in part with the 00:39 time, in KP chart, it shows ruling planet, nakshatra lord, sub lord, and sub sub lord all to be Sun, which I could definitely relate to. But interestingly, with this time change, 00:38 is actually more correct, showing with this technique, as it again brings back Leo and Sun, whereas the other time would not. I remember at the time Andrew saying, "Okay, are you a Saturn in Virgo with Mars and Venus, or a Ketu in Leo?" In other charts, like Michael Jackson's where we are looking for his birthtime, you can use it perhaps more clearly, as in mine, when beginning with this technique it might seem unclear with my Lagna being Leo anyway... but I was using my chart as an example to show HOW to do it. For me personally I was then very, very fortunate to have the opportunity to meet Yogi Karve. If any of you know of him, he is a great, great spiritual man who is known for having the ability to look at you or speak to you and give you your exact time of birth. (I can go into more on this if there is interest on here.) But when meeting him, he immediately gave me 00:38 as my birth time, so Andrew was right on via the KP techniques that he uses, along with pre-natal eclipses and progressions. Andrew's web site: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/skinbags/index.htm I have also been in touch with him recently and hoping he would come to America to teach. He is offering to teach, or do charts, at the moment at a very inexpensive price trying to get money for a ticket here. He lives in Australia but will pay for the phone call and gives something like a 3 hour call. I can send more info if there is interest. Also Therese, with the KP books, I have found going to the 5th Reader to be the most helpful. It's written somewhat better than the earlier 1st through 4th Reader books and gives direct information more clearly. All my kindest regards, Patrice _______________ Sub lord is lord of the nakshatra? .... Bettina Patrice, what is your reference for this? I have some of the KP books, buthaven't looked at them in a long time. Is this in one or more of thestandard books? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Patrice, Wow again! That site has tons of information and the pictures are wonderful, warm wishes, Morgana - Bettina Monday, May 10, 2004 10:14 AM RE: Re: KP Significator Patrice ... Thanks so much for the URL for Andrew's web site! I just clicked on it and WOW! Didn't really have time to look at it now, but I put it on my favorites list. I'm going to go back and read it thoroughly. .... Bettina Patrice Curry [patricecurry]Monday, May 10, 2004 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Re: KP Significator Hello Dear Bettina and Therese, Sub lord is a further division beyond the lord of the nakshatra. They are just a sub division of the nakshatras, and as given by Parashara for delineating the Vimshottari Dasha System. Andrew Lynn has written at his website, "Krishnamurti, as well as many other clear thinking astrologers, realized that if the Bhukti lord was important in Vimshottari, then why not consider them for the positions of every natal planet? " I am going to paste Andrew Lynn's websit below. He has a fantastic way of sharing and introducing KP methods and I have gained a large part of my understanding of KP from him. His website is a great place to learn and understand KP enough so that you can really start using it to check into it yourselves on charts. I am a huge fan of Andrew! From there you can write down the rules of the significators of the houses and begin to look at a chart. As my books are in process of being put into new shelves my husband built (ahhhh...so heavenly) and are very difficult to get to at the moment, and also the KP books, for those of you who have used them, are as you know written in a manner that it difficult to look things up specifically. So I'm not able to give you my exact reference for what I wrote regarding the strongest significator of the 1H Therese, sorry... I don't exactly remember even where I got this from, and it could have been from Andrew directly as I love to study with him at any opportunity I've been able to in the past. He use to have a list and wrote much on KP there, but unfortunately he no longer has that list. What I wrote of the first house is another technique used on the ascendant in KP and I've seen Andrew use it quite a lot. Again as an example, in my case, my birth time was 00:39 on my birth certificate. When my younger brother died a couple years ago, Andrew, in his kindness, phoned me and worked with me on my chart and said he thought it should be 00:38 due to all showing in my chart at my brother's passing. (This technique can be a good clarifying tool for helping to rectify a birthtime (or unknown birthtime). When my time is 00:39, the sublord of ascendant is Sun. Sun is in Anuradha, Saturn's star. Saturn is in Virgo conjoined with Mars, Venus and Neptune. And of course I do have a lot of Virgo traits with these placements, but clearly it is not the significator of my ascendant, with these influences and other planets conjoined also taken into account as direct influences, but rather Ketu in Leo (which is at the 00:38 time). As I have a Leo Lagna anyway, I would have Leo traits, but in deciding and seeing this for the 1H significator, this is clear to be the Ketu in Leo. I had always felt my birth time to be pretty right on and felt hesitant to change it, and also hadn't come to this technique before. I in fact felt it to be right due in part with the 00:39 time, in KP chart, it shows ruling planet, nakshatra lord, sub lord, and sub sub lord all to be Sun, which I could definitely relate to. But interestingly, with this time change, 00:38 is actually more correct, showing with this technique, as it again brings back Leo and Sun, whereas the other time would not. I remember at the time Andrew saying, "Okay, are you a Saturn in Virgo with Mars and Venus, or a Ketu in Leo?" In other charts, like Michael Jackson's where we are looking for his birthtime, you can use it perhaps more clearly, as in mine, when beginning with this technique it might seem unclear with my Lagna being Leo anyway... but I was using my chart as an example to show HOW to do it. For me personally I was then very, very fortunate to have the opportunity to meet Yogi Karve. If any of you know of him, he is a great, great spiritual man who is known for having the ability to look at you or speak to you and give you your exact time of birth. (I can go into more on this if there is interest on here.) But when meeting him, he immediately gave me 00:38 as my birth time, so Andrew was right on via the KP techniques that he uses, along with pre-natal eclipses and progressions. Andrew's web site: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/skinbags/index.htm I have also been in touch with him recently and hoping he would come to America to teach. He is offering to teach, or do charts, at the moment at a very inexpensive price trying to get money for a ticket here. He lives in Australia but will pay for the phone call and gives something like a 3 hour call. I can send more info if there is interest. Also Therese, with the KP books, I have found going to the 5th Reader to be the most helpful. It's written somewhat better than the earlier 1st through 4th Reader books and gives direct information more clearly. All my kindest regards, Patrice _______________ Sub lord is lord of the nakshatra? .... Bettina Patrice, what is your reference for this? I have some of the KP books, buthaven't looked at them in a long time. Is this in one or more of thestandard books? Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hi Dear Bettina, No, sub lords are delineated using the Vimshottari Dasa System. The basis of calculating Vimshottari Dasa is the position of the Moon at birth. In Ernst Wilhelm's great book, "Vault of the Heavens" he writes, "This is because all things are born out of consciousness, which the Moon indicates." There are many Dasa systems, all used for their own use and purposes. As Ernst writes, "Vimshottari Dasa is particularly important because the Dasa order is based upon the planetary rulers of the nakshatras." Drekkanas are a 1/3 division of the Rasi chart. And yes! isn't Andrew's web site amazing! I go back to it often. His KP information is fantastic. And also some of the cases, such as the case where he gives the example of Azaria Chamberlain, the young baby that died only 10 weeks after being born and was killed by a dingo (a native wild dog in Australia), huge case and huge publicity down there at the time, these are done so well by Andrew showing HOW he does it and you can follow along on your own and see the methods he uses. That case particularly amazing in many ways and as Andrew includes, "Her ascendent lord Mercury was conjunct the star Sirius at birth and Sirius is known as the "Dog Star". Best wishes, Patrice ________ Do sub lords have anything to do with Drekkanas? Thanks so much for the URL for Andrew's web site! I just clicked on it and WOW! Didn't really have time to look at it now, but I put it on my favorites list. I'm going to go back and read it thoroughly. .... Bettina .... Bettina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Patrice, I'll reply to your post as soon as I can...just need to find the minutes...and I have to check a book or two first. I also won't be home tomorrow. I think you'll find more people interested in discussing KP on the list below. At least a few people might be familiar with the KP concept. / Blessings, Therese At 11:49 AM 5/10/04 -0400, you wrote: > Hello Dear Therese, what you mean by a potential conflict between >the two. I also use the Navamsa, am striving to learn to use it well. I'm >still very much learning as I've written before. Yes, Navamsa is a very >important chart to be used along with the Rasi chart (...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Hi Dear Therese, Thanks very much for thinking to send the tip to this Sidereal group below. No worries at ever responding. I completely get that we are all very busy and never send an email really expecting a response. I'm usually very slow in responding to them myself, and don't like any pressures feeling I must get to it quickly. Enjoy your night and time away tomorrow. Peace, Patrice _________ Patrice, I'll reply to your post as soon as I can...just need to find theminutes...and I have to check a book or two first. I also won't be hometomorrow. I think you'll find more people interested in discussing KP on the listbelow. At least a few people might be familiar with the KP concept. / Blessings,Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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