Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hello dear list members, On the above subject lot of discussions are going on. I keep on reading but find little time to actively participate in the discussion. Amongst the prevailing US charts, Cancer ascendant still seems to be more befitting to me. At the same time I do not think that for a country there can be more than one chart. In this chart not only the 11th September, 2001, incident is seen in the natal chart but also is seen in the transit chart. Best wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hello my dear Jorge, Leaving aside the historical facts, to me, in the first instance, this chart does not appear to be the correct chart for US. Best wishes, - " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino <SAMVA > Friday, March 25, 2005 5:45 AM RE: To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 Excellent my dear John. Thanks! The rectified chart for the birth of US Government is: USA 1781 Mar 1, 1781 12:00 PM +05:01 LMT Philadelphia Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:48 Current Period: VE/MO/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 10:20 Gem Ardra Ra Sun 20:44 Aqu +01:00:06 WK P.Bhadra Ju Moon 00:55 Tau +12:08:13 WK Krittika Su Mars 25:46 Sco +00:34:06 WK Jyeshtha Me Merc 00:09 Pis +01:54:49 CM P.Bhadra Ju Jupt 06:24 Sco +00:02:08 WK Anuradha Sa Ven 26:58 Cap +01:14:14 WK Dhanishtha Ma Sat 28:28 Sco +00:02:40 WK Jyeshtha Me Rahu 15:02 Ari +00:01:09 FM Bharani Ve Ketu 15:02 Lib +00:01:09 FM Swati Ra True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 751 beats Day: Thursday Sunrise: 6:34 AM Tithi: Shukla Shashthi Yoga Pt: 24:59 Ge Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Me Dagha Rashis: Ari Leo Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 4 * * 2 ** *5 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 00:55* * * * * * * * * * 3 AS 10:20 * 1 RA 15:02* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *6 * 12 ME 00:09 * ** * * ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *KE 15:02 * 9 * 11 SU 20:44* * * * * * * * JU 06:24* * * * * * MA 25:46 * * VE 26:58 * * * * SA 28:28 * * * * * * * * * * ** 8 * * 10 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 11 * * 9 ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * KE * * * * * * * AS * * * *SA * 10 MO * 8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *1 SU * 7 * ** * * ** *2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 4 ME * 6 VE * * * * * * * * * * JU * * * * * * RA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 3 * * 5 ** ******************************************************* Best wishes, Jorge John T W B [jtwbjakarta] quinta-feira, 24 de Março de 2005 23:47 SAMVA To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 Hi Jorge, Herein follows what 3 months ago I neglected to forward to you for you files, the transcript from the Journals of the Continental Congress for February 24, 1781 outlining the calendar of events planned for the afternoon following the 12:00 noon ratification signing of the Articles of Confederation on March 1, 1781, the event which marked the birth moment of the national government of the United States. (And to clarify for the benefit of the uninitiated, this birth event of the American government should not be confused with the years earlier birth of America's body-politic, on July 2, 1776 (here, body politic as commonly understood, as " the nation " ). If nothing else I hope the ghost of the Grimes Chart for 3:19 pm on March 1, 1781 can be considered finally exorcized: A Chart wrongheaded for two crucial reasons: FIRST, March 1, 1781 is an event arising from the birth of government under America's first constitution, the Articles of Confederation, a constitution devised by representatives of the already existing nation, the United States. Therefore Grimes contention that this day is the birthday of the nation itself is just absurd, given the obvious implication that the already existing nation, the United States, fostered the birth of its own government on this same day; and SECOND, Grimes' rectification for the 3:19 pm time moment could only have been determined in a manner not unlike that of a consummate magician, as if a rabbit produced from a hat in a magic trick. How else to characterize a time moment choice where there is no historical record supporting this mid- afternoon time moment choice? So to the contrary, the record is unambiguously clear: IT HAPPENED AT 12:00 NOON when the two State of Maryland delegates to Congress signed the document. I invite everyone to read the following excerpt from the Journals of Congress for the Saturday before the day in question: JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781 Congress took into consideration the report of the committee appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon, That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly.) That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they be requested to proclaim it in their respective states. That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith informed of the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) the same to the respective courts at which they reside. That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army of our most illustrious ally, in America. That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same to the Army under his command. That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his Court.1 [Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the report, but separately presented, is the following: NOT OF RECORD That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy, to drink a glass of wine [to] " The United States of America. " A keg of biscuit, in the room of cake.* [Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.] To be in the Hall where Congress sit. The last six words are in James Madison's hand. Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows: Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to sign the Confederation. That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock. That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon. That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a suitable sermon for the occasion.] Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final ratification of the Confederation of the United States of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly: That this important event be communicated to the executives of the several states: That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at which they reside: That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister Plenipotentiary of France: That information of the completion of the said Confederation be transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to announce the same to the army under his command. COMMENTARY: These thirteen UNITED STATES later devised the Articles of Confederation (resulting from deliberations carried on between July 12, 1776 and November 15, 1777) which Articles were finally duly ratified by the thirteen states with the signatures of the delegates from Maryland, the last of the thirteen states to do so, on March 1, 1781 @ 12:00 noon in Philadelphia (N.B.: 12:00 noon being the time moment in the officially established record, an astrologically un- rectified time moment based on an official Continental Congressional document dated February 22, 1781, in which document the precise time of signing on March 1 was so stipulated and later complied with. Please refer to the Journals of the Continental Congress for Saturday, February 24, 1781 for the exact time and related plans for that day. The contents of the document and the Journal's minutes for February 24th demonstrate that the much referred to Grimes Chart for that date's signing at the rectified time of 3:19 pm is based on an unsubstantiated time moment, and so is proven to be fallacious by the facts contained in the official documentary record, in the Papers of the Continental Congress, Folio No.9. > FURTHER RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF THE FOREGOING SUMMARY CONTENTIONS REGARDING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED RECTIFICATION OF THE GRIMES CHART, CITING THE LETTERS AND JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, AS WELL AS OTHER SUPPORTING REFERENCES, MAY BE FOUND IN THE EXTENDED COMMENT OF " JOHN T W B " AT ASTRODATABANK.COM, IN THE USA FEEDBACK SECTION, DATED NOVEMBER 16, 2004: > U.S.A. AND ITS GOVT: FROM CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION TO ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION > Apropos an earlier message exchange in this Group during December 2004 on the matter of possible American national unity before 1776, here as a follow-up contribution is presented a brief look at the later historic results of efforts started with the FIRST CONTINENTAL CONGRESS convened in Philadelphia on September 05, 1774 and its initiation of the chain of events leading up to the birth of the USA on July 2, 1776, which birth of the American nation's sovereign states and their " limited " union prepared the way for the later constitutionally mandated birth of the U.S. Government on March 1, 1781, with the completion of the signing of the Articles of Confederation by the original 13 states, and so putting into effect the American nation-states' first constitution. > For mundane astrology this writer bears in mind that there are two major birth charts for any nation: first and foremost is the one for the State, then that for the Government created constitutionally by that State. In the case of the American nation there are: (1) the chart for the birth of the sovereign body-politic; the generic STATE (in the form of a " limited " union of States, the USA): dated July 2, 1776, which during its first week of life comprised a pre- constitutional " limited " union of 12 newly sovereign states of the newly stiled UNITED STATES (then after July 9th 13 states) and (2) the chart for the birth of the UNITED STATES' national GOVERNMENT under the constitutional terms of the Articles of Confederation, finally ratified on March 1, 1781. > (Indispensable Scholarship: For a classic work on the meanings and significance of the concepts: NATION, STATE and GOVERNMENT, one should refer to John W. Burgess, Professor of Political Science and Constitutional Law at Columbia University, his THE FOUNDATIONS OF POLITICAL SCIENCE (1933, reprinted 1992) presents exhaustive explanations by way of a scientific treatment, in terms of political science and constitutional law, of the substantive differentiation of a nation's state(s) and a nation's government.) > >From the start of the proceedings of the First Continental Congress, opened on September 5, 1774, there soon followed the creation of the formally adopted and documented CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION. Agreement to the adoption of the related resolution of this Association was reached shortly before 4:00 pm on October 18, 1774. Two days later, on October 20, 1774, the resulting authenticated document was signed by 12 of the 13 British American colonies (absent the colony of Georgia). From that date in 1774 the Continental Congress conducted itself under the " stile " of the UNITED COLONIES. Later on, the colony of Georgia joined the Continental Association, on September 13, 1775, at which time the membership of the Continental Association was then " re-stiled " THE THIRTEEN UNITED COLONIES, to become in the following year, at first, twelve UNITED STATES on July 2, 1776, then thirteen UNITED STATES on July 9, 1776 when New York was duly constituted in convention a sovereign state and resolved to join the Union with the other twelve states of the already established UNITED STATES. > This birth of the USA was first accomplished when 12 of 13 colonies were each constitutionally authorized to direct its delegates in the Continental Congress to formally resolve by voting for sovereign independence and its declaration, thereby establishing, then and there that July 2nd day in Philadelphia, the identities of these once British American colonies as simply yet absolutely American sovereign states, newly independent of the state of Great Britain. Their new collective identity as the UNITED STATES, no longer the UNITED COLONIES, was marked at the moment of the Continental Congressional adoption of the relevant resolution initiating U.S. sovereignty, @ 4:48 pm (SAMVA rectification) on the late afternoon of July 2, 1776, the true birthday of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From that moment on this historic date the on-going civil war between the governments of the American colonies and the colonial administration of the Government of Great Britain was then transformed to be a revolutionary war between the American states and George III's State of Great Britain. On July 2nd, 1776 the break with the British State became reality; the civil war thenceforth a revolution. > (The first historic action of the then just days old " United States in General Congress Assembled " was that of the broadside proclamation of the Declaration of Independence, its text completed and dated on Thursday July 4th then published on Friday July 5th. This, the American nation's first State Document: In its practical effect, the mundane equivalent of a birth certificate dated July 4th recording the accomplished sovereign birth of the USA of Tuesday July 2nd, and not as popularly misunderstood, a mystical document, " somehow " in and of itself, occasioning a July 4th time moment of birth.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Dear Professor, You are right. I think we are just having some problems of communication, may be due to debilitated Mercury in transit. It was never said that the Mar 1, 1781 12:00 PM chart, with Asc 10:20 Gem, is the US chart. It is better to call it the US Government chart. Yet I have rectified it afterwards with 22 US related events and the TOB suggested by Mr. John TWB proved to be correct to the second, which strongly suggests that this chart is also deeply related with the US life and may be used for prediction. However, in my opinion, the true US chart is from Jul 2, 1776 4:48:46 PM, Asc 15:31 Scorpio. Best wishes, Jorge UNITED STATES Jul 2, 1776 4:48 PM +05:00 EST Philadelphia, PA:USA Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:44 Current Period: VE/SA/ME Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 15:30 Sco Anuradha Sa Sun 20:39 Gem +00:57:11 WK Punarvasu Ju Moon 07:22 Cap +14:18:36 WK U.Shadya Su Mars 29:15 Tau +00:41:03 FM Mrigsira Ma MercR 04:15 Can -00:19:39 CM Pushya Sa Jupt 14:44 Gem +00:13:35 CM Ardra Ra Ven 09:53 Gem +01:13:28 FM Ardra Ra Sat 24:00 Vir +00:01:37 WK Chitra Ma Rahu 15:50 Can -00:00:44 FM Pushya Sa Ketu 15:50 Cap -00:00:44 FM Shravana Mo True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 951 beats Day: Tuesday Sunrise: 4:37 AM Tithi: Krishna Dvitiya Yoga Pt: 1:21 Cn Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Mo Dagha Rashis: Sag Pisces Sytems Approach Analysis ======================== Sun Bad Placement, Moon Good Placement, Bright, Afflicted House and Mool MEPs Mars Good Placement, In Old Age: 85%, Afflicted House MEP Mercury Good Placement, Combust 7%, In Infancy: 15%, Weak Dispositor, Afflicted House and Mool MEPs Jupiter Bad Placement, Combust 54%, Venus Bad Placement, Saturn Good Placement, Weak Dispositor, Afflicted House MEP Rahu Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Weak Dispositor, Afflicts 1 3 5 9 house MEPs, Afflicted House MEP Ketu Good Placement, Debilitated in Navamsha, Afflicts 3 7 9 11 house MEPs, Afflicted House MEP Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO 07:22 * * * * * *KE 15:50 * 8 AS 15:30 * 6 SA 24:00* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *11 * 5 * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MER04:15* * * 2 MA 29:15 * 4 RA 15:50* * * * * * * * * * VE 09:53* * * * * * JU 14:44 * * * * * * SU 20:39 * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 9 * * 7 ** *10* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VE * * * * * * * AS * * * * * 8 RA * 6 MA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * MER ** *11 JU * 5 SA * ** * * ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *MO * 2 KE * 4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 1 * * 3 ** ******************************************************* SIHA [siha] sexta-feira, 25 de Março de 2005 01:13 SAMVA Re: US CHART Hello my dear Jorge, Leaving aside the historical facts, to me, in the first instance, this chart does not appear to be the correct chart for US. Best wishes, - " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino <SAMVA > Friday, March 25, 2005 5:45 AM RE: To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 Excellent my dear John. Thanks! The rectified chart for the birth of US Government is: USA 1781 Mar 1, 1781 12:00 PM +05:01 LMT Philadelphia Longitude: 75W10 Latitude: 39N57 Lahiri Ayanamsha: 20:48 Current Period: VE/MO/VE Planet Deg Sign Speed SA Nakshatra Lord ================================================ Asc 10:20 Gem Ardra Ra Sun 20:44 Aqu +01:00:06 WK P.Bhadra Ju Moon 00:55 Tau +12:08:13 WK Krittika Su Mars 25:46 Sco +00:34:06 WK Jyeshtha Me Merc 00:09 Pis +01:54:49 CM P.Bhadra Ju Jupt 06:24 Sco +00:02:08 WK Anuradha Sa Ven 26:58 Cap +01:14:14 WK Dhanishtha Ma Sat 28:28 Sco +00:02:40 WK Jyeshtha Me Rahu 15:02 Ari +00:01:09 FM Bharani Ve Ketu 15:02 Lib +00:01:09 FM Swati Ra True Node 365.25 Day Year - Internet Time: 751 beats Day: Thursday Sunrise: 6:34 AM Tithi: Shukla Shashthi Yoga Pt: 24:59 Ge Yogi:Ju AviYogi:Su Dup Yogi: Me Dagha Rashis: Ari Leo Rashi Chart ******************************************************* ** 4 * * 2 ** *5 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MO 00:55* * * * * * * * * * 3 AS 10:20 * 1 RA 15:02* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *6 * 12 ME 00:09 * ** * * ** *7 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *KE 15:02 * 9 * 11 SU 20:44* * * * * * * * JU 06:24* * * * * * MA 25:46 * * VE 26:58 * * * * SA 28:28 * * * * * * * * * * ** 8 * * 10 ** ******************************************************* Navamsha ******************************************************* ** 11 * * 9 ** *12* * * * * * * * * * * * * MA * * * * * KE * * * * * * * AS * * * *SA * 10 MO * 8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * ** *1 SU * 7 * ** * * ** *2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 4 ME * 6 VE * * * * * * * * * * JU * * * * * * RA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** 3 * * 5 ** ******************************************************* Best wishes, Jorge John T W B [jtwbjakarta] quinta-feira, 24 de Março de 2005 23:47 SAMVA To Exorcize The Ghost Of The GRIMES CHART: March 1, 1781 Hi Jorge, Herein follows what 3 months ago I neglected to forward to you for you files, the transcript from the Journals of the Continental Congress for February 24, 1781 outlining the calendar of events planned for the afternoon following the 12:00 noon ratification signing of the Articles of Confederation on March 1, 1781, the event which marked the birth moment of the national government of the United States. (And to clarify for the benefit of the uninitiated, this birth event of the American government should not be confused with the years earlier birth of America's body-politic, on July 2, 1776 (here, body politic as commonly understood, as " the nation " ). If nothing else I hope the ghost of the Grimes Chart for 3:19 pm on March 1, 1781 can be considered finally exorcized: A Chart wrongheaded for two crucial reasons: FIRST, March 1, 1781 is an event arising from the birth of government under America's first constitution, the Articles of Confederation, a constitution devised by representatives of the already existing nation, the United States. Therefore Grimes contention that this day is the birthday of the nation itself is just absurd, given the obvious implication that the already existing nation, the United States, fostered the birth of its own government on this same day; and SECOND, Grimes' rectification for the 3:19 pm time moment could only have been determined in a manner not unlike that of a consummate magician, as if a rabbit produced from a hat in a magic trick. How else to characterize a time moment choice where there is no historical record supporting this mid- afternoon time moment choice? So to the contrary, the record is unambiguously clear: IT HAPPENED AT 12:00 NOON when the two State of Maryland delegates to Congress signed the document. I invite everyone to read the following excerpt from the Journals of Congress for the Saturday before the day in question: JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1781 Congress took into consideration the report of the committee appointed to report the mode of announcing the final ratification of the Articles of Confederation; Whereupon, That [on Thursday next at 12 o'Clock the final ratification of] the Confederation of the United States of America becompleted, by the execution thereof on the part of Maryland, at twelve o'clock on Thursday next, and that this important event be immediately announced to the publick,by the firing of thirteen cannon, and by the ringing of the bells in this city, (and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly.) That thissame (Important Event) be also communicated to the Executives of the several States,and to the Commander-in-Chief they be requested to proclaim it in their respective states. That the several Ministers of these states in Europe beforthwith informed of the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and they beinstructed (ordered) tocommunicate (notify) the same to the respective courts at which they reside. That copies of the foregoing resolutions, with authentick information of the completion of the said Confederation, be transmitted to the Commander in Chief; and that he be directed topublish (announce) the same to the Army under hisimmediate command,and to the fleet and army of our most illustrious ally, in America. That the like information be transmitted to the commanding officer in the southern department, and that he be directed to announce the same to the Army under his command. That the Minister of France be also informed, that it is intended to complete and ratify the said Confederation on Thursday next; and that he be requested to make the earliest communication of the same to his Court.1 [Note : * This report, in the writing of George Walton, except the portions in brackets, which are in Charles Thomson's hand, and those in parentheses, which are in Samuel Huntington's hand, is in thePapers of the Continental Congress, No. 23, folio 29. It is also entered in No. 9, (History of the Confederation.) A part of the report, but separately presented, is the following: NOT OF RECORD That the Congress adjourn after completing the Confederation; and the President shall invite the Minister of France, the Speaker and members of the General Assembly, the Vice-President and members of the Supreme Executive Council, and the officers of the Army and Navy, to drink a glass of wine [to] " The United States of America. " A keg of biscuit, in the room of cake.* [Note *: * Does it mean the Cake room.] To be in the Hall where Congress sit. The last six words are in James Madison's hand. Another resolution, undated, in the writing of John Mathews, is in No. 36, IV, folio 423, as follows: Resolved that -- next be appointed for the Delegates of Maryland to sign the Confederation. That the President of the State of Pennsylvania the Minister of France, The Vice-President Council and assembly of Pennsylvania, the officers of the French and American Armies in this City, and all other public officers, be particularly invited to attend the ceremony and that the doors of the Congress chamber be opened at twelve oClock. That the Board of War be directed to give proper orders, for announcing the final ratification of theAmerican Confederacy of the United States by the discharge of thirteen cannon. That one of the Chaplains of Congressbe directed to prepare a suitable sermon for the occasion.] Resolved, That on Thursday next, at twelve o'clock, the final ratification of the Confederation of the United States of America, be announced to the public; and that the Board of War and Board of Admiralty take order accordingly: That this important event be communicated to the executives of the several states: That the several ministers of these states in Europe be informed of the complete and final ratification of the said Confederation; and that they be ordered to notify the same to the respective courts at which they reside: That it be also notified to the honorable the Minister Plenipotentiary of France: That information of the completion of the said Confederation be transmitted to the Commander in Chief, and that he be directed to announce the same to the army under his command. COMMENTARY: These thirteen UNITED STATES later devised the Articles of Confederation (resulting from deliberations carried on between July 12, 1776 and November 15, 1777) which Articles were finally duly ratified by the thirteen states with the signatures of the delegates from Maryland, the last of the thirteen states to do so, on March 1, 1781 @ 12:00 noon in Philadelphia (N.B.: 12:00 noon being the time moment in the officially established record, an astrologically un- rectified time moment based on an official Continental Congressional document dated February 22, 1781, in which document the precise time of signing on March 1 was so stipulated and later complied with. Please refer to the Journals of the Continental Congress for Saturday, February 24, 1781 for the exact time and related plans for that day. The contents of the document and the Journal's minutes for February 24th demonstrate that the much referred to Grimes Chart for that date's signing at the rectified time of 3:19 pm is based on an unsubstantiated time moment, and so is proven to be fallacious by the facts contained in the official documentary record, in the Papers of the Continental Congress, Folio No.9. > FURTHER RESEARCH IN SUPPORT OF THE FOREGOING SUMMARY CONTENTIONS REGARDING THE UNSUBSTANTIATED RECTIFICATION OF THE GRIMES CHART, CITING THE LETTERS AND JOURNALS OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS, AS WELL AS OTHER SUPPORTING REFERENCES, MAY BE FOUND IN THE EXTENDED COMMENT OF " JOHN T W B " AT ASTRODATABANK.COM, IN THE USA FEEDBACK SECTION, DATED NOVEMBER 16, 2004: > U.S.A. AND ITS GOVT: FROM CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION TO ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION > Apropos an earlier message exchange in this Group during December 2004 on the matter of possible American national unity before 1776, here as a follow-up contribution is presented a brief look at the later historic results of efforts started with the FIRST CONTINENTAL CONGRESS convened in Philadelphia on September 05, 1774 and its initiation of the chain of events leading up to the birth of the USA on July 2, 1776, which birth of the American nation's sovereign states and their " limited " union prepared the way for the later constitutionally mandated birth of the U.S. Government on March 1, 1781, with the completion of the signing of the Articles of Confederation by the original 13 states, and so putting into effect the American nation-states' first constitution. > For mundane astrology this writer bears in mind that there are two major birth charts for any nation: first and foremost is the one for the State, then that for the Government created constitutionally by that State. In the case of the American nation there are: (1) the chart for the birth of the sovereign body-politic; the generic STATE (in the form of a " limited " union of States, the USA): dated July 2, 1776, which during its first week of life comprised a pre- constitutional " limited " union of 12 newly sovereign states of the newly stiled UNITED STATES (then after July 9th 13 states) and (2) the chart for the birth of the UNITED STATES' national GOVERNMENT under the constitutional terms of the Articles of Confederation, finally ratified on March 1, 1781. > (Indispensable Scholarship: For a classic work on the meanings and significance of the concepts: NATION, STATE and GOVERNMENT, one should refer to John W. Burgess, Professor of Political Science and Constitutional Law at Columbia University, his THE FOUNDATIONS OF POLITICAL SCIENCE (1933, reprinted 1992) presents exhaustive explanations by way of a scientific treatment, in terms of political science and constitutional law, of the substantive differentiation of a nation's state(s) and a nation's government.) > >From the start of the proceedings of the First Continental Congress, opened on September 5, 1774, there soon followed the creation of the formally adopted and documented CONTINENTAL ASSOCIATION. Agreement to the adoption of the related resolution of this Association was reached shortly before 4:00 pm on October 18, 1774. Two days later, on October 20, 1774, the resulting authenticated document was signed by 12 of the 13 British American colonies (absent the colony of Georgia). From that date in 1774 the Continental Congress conducted itself under the " stile " of the UNITED COLONIES. Later on, the colony of Georgia joined the Continental Association, on September 13, 1775, at which time the membership of the Continental Association was then " re-stiled " THE THIRTEEN UNITED COLONIES, to become in the following year, at first, twelve UNITED STATES on July 2, 1776, then thirteen UNITED STATES on July 9, 1776 when New York was duly constituted in convention a sovereign state and resolved to join the Union with the other twelve states of the already established UNITED STATES. > This birth of the USA was first accomplished when 12 of 13 colonies were each constitutionally authorized to direct its delegates in the Continental Congress to formally resolve by voting for sovereign independence and its declaration, thereby establishing, then and there that July 2nd day in Philadelphia, the identities of these once British American colonies as simply yet absolutely American sovereign states, newly independent of the state of Great Britain. Their new collective identity as the UNITED STATES, no longer the UNITED COLONIES, was marked at the moment of the Continental Congressional adoption of the relevant resolution initiating U.S. sovereignty, @ 4:48 pm (SAMVA rectification) on the late afternoon of July 2, 1776, the true birthday of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. From that moment on this historic date the on-going civil war between the governments of the American colonies and the colonial administration of the Government of Great Britain was then transformed to be a revolutionary war between the American states and George III's State of Great Britain. On July 2nd, 1776 the break with the British State became reality; the civil war thenceforth a revolution. > (The first historic action of the then just days old " United States in General Congress Assembled " was that of the broadside proclamation of the Declaration of Independence, its text completed and dated on Thursday July 4th then published on Friday July 5th. This, the American nation's first State Document: In its practical effect, the mundane equivalent of a birth certificate dated July 4th recording the accomplished sovereign birth of the USA of Tuesday July 2nd, and not as popularly misunderstood, a mystical document, " somehow " in and of itself, occasioning a July 4th time moment of birth.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Hello my dear Jorge, OK. It was being referred with another US chart. Best wishes, - " Jorge Angelino " <jorge.angelino <SAMVA > Friday, March 25, 2005 9:25 AM RE: US CHART Dear Professor, You are right. I think we are just having some problems of communication, may be due to debilitated Mercury in transit. It was never said that the Mar 1, 1781 12:00 PM chart, with Asc 10:20 Gem, is the US chart. It is better to call it the US Government chart. Yet I have rectified it afterwards with 22 US related events and the TOB suggested by Mr. John TWB proved to be correct to the second, which strongly suggests that this chart is also deeply related with the US life and may be used for prediction. However, in my opinion, the true US chart is from Jul 2, 1776 4:48:46 PM, Asc 15:31 Scorpio. Best wishes, Jorge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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